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Thread: Brexit? Yay or Nay?

  1. #971
    If I die before I wake.. Cullion's Avatar
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    I think I've proved that it's a 'project fear' negotiating ploy pretty conclusively.

    Voting for the deal would he stupid for 2 reasons: -

    1) It would force us to remain subject to EU rule with no way of unilaterally leaving.

    2) We don't need to agree to it to keep the border open. If we wont close it, and your govt. wont close it willingly, then its an empty bluff on the EUs part. They're literally pretending they'll force your government to violate the GFA as part of an attempt to control the UKs trade policy. Bullshit. They can fuck off. And if you had any sense you'd tell them to fuck off too.
    Last edited by Cullion; 19th April 19 at 07:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

  2. #972
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    This kind of brinksmanship is sure to end in tears
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  3. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    I think I've proved that it's a 'project fear' negotiating ploy pretty conclusively.

    Voting for the deal would he stupid for 2 reasons: -

    1) It would force us to remain subject to EU rule with no way of unilaterally leaving.

    2) We don't need to agree to it to keep the border open. If we wont close it, and your govt. wont close it willingly, then its an empty bluff on the EUs part. They're literally pretending they'll force your government to violate the GFA as part of an attempt to control the UKs trade policy. Bullshit. They can fuck off. And if you had any sense you'd tell them to fuck off too.
    Your argument all sounds very reasonable and considered

    However one important aspect that you continue to over look is the fact that you can not predict how any government policy will change or how any particular government will change in the future

    Sure, perhaps the current batch of leadership can be trusted not to do something reckless, but trump has shown us that it is all too easy for a nincompoop or a demigog to get their little hands on the levers of power

    Thus the important matters, such as the GFA need to be protected by legally binding international agreements

    And as you well know, if the UK wants to trade with any other country, be it the US, PRC or EU, the UK is going to have to be subject to the rules of that trading block

    This "Pure Brexit" expoused by the loony right is a myth
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  4. #974
    If I die before I wake.. Cullion's Avatar
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    Your whole argument is based on ignoring what people put in writing and saying 'yeah but anything might change'. You could justify *anything* that way.

    You dont seem to understand mutual recognition of standards. It's absolutely untrue that the whole UK economy must meed the standards of a given country in order for some UK businesses to export there.

    We dont so that for the US today.
    Last edited by Cullion; 21st April 19 at 04:14 AM.
    ONE SOUL AT A TIME

    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

  5. #975
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    There is a difference between a gvt policy document and a treaty between two soverign states, as you must know

    A gvt policy can change on a whim without any legal consiquence

    Breaking a treaty has legal consiquences

    But you know this alteady, but the leave dogma is so weak you are forced to make ridiculous argumentd and obviously fake claims like the EU is going to throw RoI under the bus or the European Commision wants a hard border in Ireland
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  6. #976
    If I die before I wake.. Cullion's Avatar
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    You're trying to segue away from something obvious:-

    1) The British govt. has publicly said, several time, it doesn't want to close the border

    2) The vast majority of Irish people (whether in the Republic or the North) don't want to close the border.

    3) The EU, speaking through Varadkar, is the only party that's said it may 'have' to close the border.

    This is fact. You're still working through the cognitive dissonance. The EU is using Ireland as a negotiating chip.
    ONE SOUL AT A TIME

    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

  7. #977
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    The same British gvt that said it was not going to call a snap election in 2017, and the same British gvt that was definatly going to leave the EU on march 29 and the same British gvt that was definatly going to leave the EU on april 12th

    And what about the next gvt? What if they have another change of heart?

    I'm not suprised you are resorting to paranoid conspiracies to try to distract from the fact that brexit does not make sense on any level and the "deep state" Tory establishment have realised that persuing a ridiculous brexit dogma will reduce thier personal fortunes and are now doing every thing in their power to prevent it

    Or the UK would have left the EU a month ago

    You still haven't provided proof that the European Commision wants to establish a hard border in Ireland by the way
    Last edited by Üser Friendly; 21st April 19 at 02:40 PM.
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  8. #978
    If I die before I wake.. Cullion's Avatar
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    There's no paranoid conspiracy here. Nobody in the British govt, or indeed any faction in parliament, wants to put up a border with the Republic of Ireland. The only people who have claimed that would be necessary are representatives of the EU Commission. This is all public, and written.

    Here is an EU Comission spokesman saying exactly what I said they have said

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46961982

    You are simply not on top of the facts here. You are making demonstrably wrong assertions because you have been taken-in by pro-EU propaganda. The facts support me.
    ONE SOUL AT A TIME

    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

  9. #979
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    But your assertion that the EU "want" a hard border is erronious, but unlike a lot of Leave politicians they don't have thier heads in the cloads about the outcome of a no deal brexit. The EU and UK gvt made a deal, preventing a hard border and the EU have gone out of their way to allow UK Parliment time to ratify the deal. This paranoid rhetoric that you are employing painting the EU as anti the GFA and hell bent on discomoding the UK just doesn't hold any water. Pure Faragism

    And perhaps it is true that nobody in the current gvt want a hard border, but that could change tomorow. You just are not in a position to predict the future. Hence the need for a legaly binding treaty.
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  10. #980
    If I die before I wake.. Cullion's Avatar
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    We don't need a hard border even in the event of a WTO-rules based future relationship. The only party to even suggest that we would is the EU.

    There is no need for a treaty beyond the existing Good Friday agreement.
    ONE SOUL AT A TIME

    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

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