Brexit? Yay or Nay?

[Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin]

There's a cooup going on at the moment RJ. Hardline no deal Brexiteers have seized the political apparatus & are trying to thwart the democratically elected Parliament & force no deal with the EU.

Johnson now PM (voted for by 0.19% of the UK population) has put in motion the suspension of Parliament for 5 weeks leading up to the Brexit dealine of 31st October.

This has triggered 1 MP from the Tories to defect leaving Johnson without a majority in Parliament. Look ike anothe general election on the cards & it looks like Johnson will probably call it AFTER the Brexit deadline.

The referendum & government have been hijacked by people who stand to make a fucking fortune out of this with no regard to the effects on the people of the UK as far as I can see.

Get out, sell off assets, short the pound, deregulate everything, make a killing, seems to be the plan.

[Robot Jesus]

and then the economy collapses, and as planned the wealthy buy up all the everything for half a shilling, and the electorate slam the undo button as hard as they can as soon as they can. EU welcomes back the UK under putative terms.

only real question is will the UK survive or break up into it's perspective countries. Ireland and Scotland seem obvious, curious about Whales.

[Cullion]

so there are no circumstances in which a remain decision is democratic?

You don't seem to understand; this decision was already put to a public referenda, we voted to leave. Then there was a general election where the winning party's leader made a well-reported speech announcing intent to leave, including leaving the customs union and ECJ jursidiction, then put it in their written manifesto. Then parliament voted to trigger article 50.

say a general election where the main policy plank is remain?

Yeah, sure, but no party except the lib dems would do that (and they don't expect to win). It would be electoral suicide. This is a weird political game where a minority of the population attempt to overturn the repeatedly expressed wish of a majority.

The rest of what you wrote about the rich seizing all the assets is pure fantasy, as is Max's nonsense about a coup.

The referendum & government have been hijacked by people who stand to make a fucking fortune out of this with no regard to the effects on the people of the UK as far as I can see.

Utter nonsense. pro-remain sentiment is higher amongst 1%ers.

[Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin]

This is a weird political game where a minority of the population attempt to overturn the repeatedly expressed wish of a majority.

Nahh there is no evidence that the majority of the population voted for no deal that a narrative created by Farage/Mogg et al to rile up support.

The rest of what you wrote about the rich seizing all the assets is pure fantasy.

Utter nonsense. pro-remain sentiment is higher amongst 1%ers.

That maybe but the Cabal of Capitalist we are discussing stand to make a fortune they're already doing it surely you're not so attached to Brexit that you cant see something so blatantly obvious?

So do you think Johnson's playing this right?

[Cullion]

Nahh there is no evidence that the majority of the population voted for no deal that a narrative created by Farage/Mogg et al to rile up support.

Here is the official govt. advice sent to every household in the country
https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf

This was sent out before the referendum.

Voting to leave the EU would
create years of uncertainty and
potential economic disruption.
This would reduce investment
and cost jobs.
The Government judges it could
result in 10 years or more of
uncertainty as the UK unpicks
our relationship with the EU and
renegotiates new arrangements
with the EU and over 50 other
countries around the world.

Everybody in the country was sent that official advice, and more voters disbelieved it than believed it. It's nonsensical to say they didn't know there was a risk of leaving the single market and customs union. The most widely circulated literature with an official seal on it said exactly that. They saw that advice and chose to vote against it.

Then in 2017, we had a general election. The Labour party insisted they would respect the vote, and would end freedom of movement, but they wanted to leave with a deal. The conservative party (which won that election) was more specific; their manifesto also said they'd leave the Customs Union and ECJ jurisdiction.

That maybe but the Cabal of Capitalist we are discussing stand to make a fortune they're already doing it surely you're not so attached to Brexit that you cant see something so blatantly obvious?

Which cabal of capitalists ? Describe to me exactly who they are and how they will make money, and then explain why it would've been easier for them to do this than make money from the UK remaining.

So do you think Johnson's playing this right?

No, I think he should have come to the commons and explained what he would like to ask for. There are some people in parliament who will always want the UK govt. to rule out no deal because they *want* the negotiating position to be bad, because they think that will lead to us cancelling article 50, but I suspect there's a big enough group, including Tory rebels and Labour members from leave constituencies who could be persuaded if they thought he had a sincere plan and hadn't immediately got their backs up by threatening them.

He didn't learn from May's failure when she was doing the same thing to the leavers with those stories about sending them home in taxis. It backfired in just the same way, for the same reason.

[Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin]

Yeah I'm sure most Leave voters read that nevermind taking on board what they were being told by "Project Fear".

Which cabal of capitalists ? Describe to me exactly who they are and how they will make money, and then explain why it would've been easier for them to do this than make money from the UK remaining.

I think Mogg stands to make a lot more money with 'emerging markets' not to mention not having to declare where he's hiding his money. Also I think Aaron Banks is banking on a US deal that cuts in his interests in medical insurance & many people will have made a quick buck on shorting the pound.

At the moment I think we should have a referendum on Leaving with no deal or Leaving with a deal.

[Cullion]

I think Mogg stands to make a lot more money with 'emerging markets'

Why? Do you really believe it's easier for him to try and steer the UK out of the EU than it is for him to simply switch his investments to something that would profit from staying in the EU and then support that? This is groundless conspiracy theory.

not to mention not having to declare where he's hiding his money.

Remember the panama papers? Plenty of remainers mentioned there. Ask yourself why Richard Branson, Soros, Hammond and Heseltine aren't supporting leave, if this is just about tax for the wealthiest?

Also I think Aaron Banks is banking on a US deal that cuts in his interests in medical insurance & many people will have made a quick buck on shorting the pound.

Again, nonsense. The effort/reward involved in steering the politics of a whole country to ensure you win a currency bet when you could just not get involved in politics (or support remain) and bet the other way renders this conspiracy theory completely nonsensical.

At the moment I think we should have a referendum on Leaving with no deal or Leaving with a deal.

The problem is that if the referendum had anything excerpt 'no deal' and 'May's deal' on it, there's no guarantee that other new deal could be achieved in negotiation and we'd be back to square one.

[Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin]

Why? Do you really believe it's easier for him to try and steer the UK out of the EU than it is for him to simply switch his investments to something that would profit from staying in the EU and then support that? This is groundless conspiracy theory.

I dont think its about easier, I think Jacob has some very strong ideals that he's playing out as well as cashing in.

Remember the panama papers? Plenty of remainers mentioned there. Ask yourself why Richard Branson, Soros, Hammond and Heseltine aren't supporting leave, if this is just about tax for the wealthiest?

Yeah a fair point.

Again, nonsense. The effort/reward involved in steering the politics of a whole country to ensure you win a currency bet when you could just not get involved in politics (or support remain) and bet the other way renders this conspiracy theory completely nonsensical.

Nahh dont buy its just a 'conspiracy theory'. I think there is enough information to make more than a speculation (see wot I didi there?), there's ideological reasons behind Nigel, Jacob et al. I think Boris is along for the ride but to some extent shares right-wing pseudo-libertarianism fanatasies with the others.

The problem is that if the referendum had anything excerpt 'no deal' and 'May's deal' on it, there's no guarantee that other new deal could be achieved in negotiation and we'd be back to square one.

I think we're heading to square 1 anyway.

What's your take on this?

[Cullion]

I dont think its about easier, I think Jacob has some very strong ideals that he's playing out as well as cashing in.

I think there is enough information to make more than a speculation (see wot I didi there?), there's ideological reasons behind Nigel, Jacob et al. I think Boris is along for the ride but to some extent shares right-wing pseudo-libertarianism fanatasies with the others.

Yes, they're doing this because they believe it's right (as do I). This isn't about financial self-interest.

What's your take on this?

I'm so politically different from the author there that I actually hope most of the things they're panicking about come true.
Trump doesn't want to force us to end socialised healthcare in the UK though, that's a socialist myth.

[Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin]

Yes, they're doing this because they believe it's right (as do I). This isn't about financial self-interest.

I think the 2 are inseperable for Jacob. I think its different for Nigel, I think he senses power.

I'm so politically different from the author there that I actually hope most of the things they're panicking about come true.
Trump doesn't want to force us to end socialised healthcare in the UK though, that's a socialist myth.

I'm not so sure about that being a myth, its certainly something Nigel is in favour of.