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Thread: Homeopathy (just for Craigypooooooh)

  1. #81
    Home Brewer Extraordinair Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Faustus View Post
    For this to be a fallacy you have to prove that the said authority is not actually an authority...duhhh.
    It is argument from authority because there is an immediate assumption that the authority is correct, based solely upon his authority and not upon examination of the evidence.

    Sure they are but are they in this case? Have similar studies been done?

    Your argument surrounds the likelyhood of impurities skewing the results. If we are to go with your line of argument then what is the possiblity of the impurities being exactly the same in every sample?
    No.

    I'm saying the the presence of impurities guarantees that the results are inconclusive.

    1: Sample A was exposed to chemical X in quantity Q
    2: Sample A is now showing observation Y
    3: Sample B was not exposed to chemical X in quantity Q
    4: Sample B is not showing observation Y

    In this case you could say that chemical X, in quantity Q, is the likely cause of observation Y

    However, in the experiment we are discussing, a very common salt was used as chemical X (NaCl, or table salt) which is likely to be present as in impurity in both the control and experimental samples, in quantities much greater than Q. The actual limit on how pure we can make water is less than 10 ppb, which means there's millions and millions of unaccounted for molecules floating around in each sample, a significant proportion of them are probably NaCl. If we look at the experiment in terms of the example above, you can't be sure what quantity of chemical X either sample was actually exposed to, and item number 3 is almost assuredly false. No reasonable conclusion can be made about what actually caused observation Y in regards to exposure to chemical X.

    In these cases, the mostly likely cause is some sort of repeated procedural error, not a new law of physics.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrapure_water
    http://www.millipore.com/lab_water/c...id:10051248582

  2. #82
    Home Brewer Extraordinair Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    Keith, your mate the electrical engineer, says 'nuh-uh' about the modern day sensitivity to contaminants in lab conditions, without producing any sources to back up his assertion. There's absolutely no reason to believe Keith knows anything about this subject.
    A friend of mine says "If they just build a bridge across the Bering Straight, I could drive my car to Bangladesh on one tank of fuel!"
    Me: "It's over a thousand miles to Bangladesh, your car can't go that far on one tank of fuel."
    My friend: "A thousand miles? You just made that number up! Cite some sources! You don't have any idea what you're talking about!"

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    A friend of mine says "If they just build a bridge across the Bering Straight, I could drive my car to Bangladesh on one tank of fuel!"
    Me: "It's over a thousand miles to Bangladesh, your car can't go that far on one tank of fuel."
    My friend: "A thousand miles? You just made that number up! Cite some sources! You don't have any idea what you're talking about!"


    Keith, provide a source, or please be quiet. You can't assert things about '1000 atoms' and expect them to be accepted as self evident. You just can't do that in the current era. You don't have any real training in experimental chemistry. Jubei might be able to get away with this. You don't without a source.
    Last edited by Cullion; 1st May 12 at 05:47 PM.
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    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

  4. #84
    Home Brewer Extraordinair Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    Keith, provide a source, or please be quiet.
    If I had a drag race car that was going Mach 10 when it crossed the finish line, would you really make me look up the current land speed record before I could claim I broke it?

    See post #81 in this thread.

  5. #85
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    If I had a drag race car that was going Mach 10 when it crossed the finish line, would you really make me look up the current land speed record before I could claim I broke it?

    See post #81 in this thread.
    Keith, I don't believe you know enough about chemistry to even be in the right ballpark when talking about detectability threshold for orders of magnitude of molecules.

    You're just pulling stuff out of the air. You're like the guy who tries to critique special relativity by saying, over and over again, "yeah but if a train went at, like, nearly the speed of light and I jumped off the front, then I must be going faster than the speed of light".

    Yes, you are.

    So I'm going to insist you go look it up. Because you're not Jubei.
    Last edited by Cullion; 2nd May 12 at 03:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

  7. #87
    Dining with Daemons Photobucket Dr. ,,,,, Chameleon's Avatar
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    OK the first link doesnt give any numbers and the second is a link to a list of products to purify water.

    If you think they prove something about the samples used in the LR Rey paper I cant see it.
    Last edited by Dr. ,,,,, Chameleon; 2nd May 12 at 04:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve's advice to Palestinians
    As for the blockade, it's only enforced 3 nautical miles out. That gives people ~3.5 miles of ocean to sail on along the entire coast to avoid bombing.
    Deepak Chopra has some words of wisdom for you!

  8. #88
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    Keith is using the water quality required for a large scale manufacturing process as his benchmark of the maximum purity available or detectable in a research lab. What a 'tard.
    Last edited by Cullion; 2nd May 12 at 04:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

  9. #89
    Home Brewer Extraordinair Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    Keith is using the water quality required for a large scale manufacturing process as his benchmark of the maximum purity available or detectable in a research lab. What a 'tard.
    I'm sorry that the link to ultra-pure water doesn't specifically say that it is the purest that any process can make water. I can't find any source that specifically says this in black and white. The industries that use this, notably the silicon industry, have requirements for water that is absolutely as pure as possible, why do you think the requirements are more stringent for laboratories? If it's any consolation I have an e-mail from a chemistry lab manager that says the most pure water producible is on the low order of parts per billion and detection is on parts per trillion.

    As far as detection goes, the most sensitive technique detects down to less than one part per trillion
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inducti...s_spectrometry

    Any process that purifies water cannot be guaranteed to be pure beyond what is detectable, would you agree that the samples are not guaranteed to be pure beyond one part per trillion?

    That still leaves millions and millions of molecules of salts still in solution.
    Last edited by Keith; 2nd May 12 at 06:57 AM.

  10. #90


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    Cullion, Keith is right. Not sure if you really believe in this stuff or if you just wont let go because Keith isn't forming his argument in a way acceptable to you.

    Either way, you are being silly.

    Also, the ability to manipulate individual atoms and ability to check trillions of molecules for impurities are 2 different things.
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