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Thread: DOJ vs AZ: The Discussion

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    Default DOJ vs AZ: The Discussion

    so... some of you guys may know that the Department of Justice filed a suit against the State of Arizona this past week, over the state's right to arrest and prosecute illegal aliens.

    i would post links, but i'm fucking lazy. so those of you not in the know, please google news "DOJ, Arizona" for details.

    i don't understand... how the can DOJ turn on one of its own states? it's madness.

    this is one of the worst things that's ever happened to our country!

    i'm now thinking that what we're seeing is the first steps toward several states filing for secession. we'll likely plunge into a real depression over the next couple of years as the democrats impose cap and tax and possibly a VAT tax and more. the number of foreclosures will probably skyrocket again, and unemployment will exceed 25%.

    i expect rioting and the beginning of a civil revolt.

    it's coming... and we're watching it unfold.
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    ad hominem is awesome elipson's Avatar
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    I'm a little fuzzy on american constitutional law, but isn't this a constitutional question? As in, the State is over stepping its powers as defined by whatever document in which America defines the powers of the federal government vs. that of ths States?
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    Quote Originally Posted by elipson
    I'm a little fuzzy on american constitutional law, but isn't this a constitutional question? As in, the State is over stepping its powers as defined by whatever document in which America defines the powers of the federal government vs. that of ths States?
    i don't see how it's overstepping its powers, as AZ's law mirrors existing federal law. they're doing what i've been screaming about for years--enforcing the immigration laws that we already have!

    here's a list of just a few legal theories of why this shit won't fly.

    in order to prevail on this retarded, taxpayer financed, pro-illegal shitfuck, Obama will essentially have to take the position that it's not in the government's interest to enforce its own laws. that would be the only position that would support its claim that Arizona prempts federal law.

    it's so fucking stupid that i'm embararassed! i'm ashamed!

    sumbuddy with better fact checking skills than i: please tell me something... ANYTHING... that will make me believe that the sky is no longer falling!
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    ONE SOUL AT A TIME

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    If I die before I wake.. Cullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fes_fsa
    sumbuddy with better fact checking skills than i: please tell me something... ANYTHING... that will make me believe that the sky is no longer falling!
    Yes. The States won't secede because too many of them are going broke and they don't have the power to print their own money. So they'll be queuing up for Federal bailouts left, right and centre and they'll do what they're told.
    ONE SOUL AT A TIME

    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

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    You said rape twice Hedley LaMarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fes_fsa
    so... some of you guys may know that the Department of Justice filed a suit against the State of Arizona this past week, over the state's right to arrest and prosecute illegal aliens.
    The case "United States vs. Arizona" is not the first time the United States has sued a state. The judicial system is a method to sort out issues in which the federal government thinks a state is not abiding by the Constitution such as US vs Virginia
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...0&invol=u20026

    or in which a state argues to US is not abiding by the Constitution, such as in New York vs. the United States
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._United_States.

    I believe in US vs Arizona it is being argued that immigration is a federal issue so states do not have the right to pass laws regarding immigration.
    i don't understand... how the can DOJ turn on one of its own states? it's madness.
    Because in a situation where constitutional law is being argued over, usually the best place to go is the Supreme Court.
    this is one of the worst things that's ever happened to our country!
    No, it's not.

    i'm now thinking that what we're seeing is the first steps toward several states filing for secession. we'll likely plunge into a real depression over the next couple of years as the democrats impose cap and tax and possibly a VAT tax and more. the number of foreclosures will probably skyrocket again, and unemployment will exceed 25%.
    I don't think secession is going to happen, mainly because the military is much more centralized and controlled by the federal government than it was during the Civil War, making it much more difficult for states to defend itself after secession.

    If secession were to occur, however, I think there are benefits to it. The US has become increasingly polarized ideologically and trying to mesh these together at a federal level leads to never ending political standoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Yes. The States won't secede because too many of them are going broke and they don't have the power to print their own money. So they'll be queuing up for Federal bailouts left, right and centre and they'll do what they're told.
    our government is broke too. they can't afford to bail out all the states that spend beyond their means. there's no way they'd take on an assumed ongoing obligation.

    it would be cheaper to secede, stop paying the federal government, and let the people keep their money circulating and growing within your own state.
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
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    Unintentional Rayp'ist Spade: The Real Snake's Avatar
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    We aren't going to secede because like, say Texas or Alaska we don't have oil we could drill for if the Feds would only let us.

    Fuck we can't even pay for our highway rest stops to stay open
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    If I die before I wake.. Cullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fes_fsa
    our government is broke too. they can't afford to bail out all the states that spend beyond their means. there's no way they'd take on an assumed ongoing obligation.
    The Federal government can get the Fed to monetise debt, just like they already have. They'd do what they're already doing for bankrupt banks and auto companies and get the Fed to monetize the debt required to bail out the states. Inflation is a 'long term' problem.

    it would be cheaper to secede, stop paying the federal government, and let the people keep their money circulating and growing within your own state.
    I think that would provoke a fairly frank and firm exchange of views from the kind of Federal employees that make Dick Cheney feel nervous, that would never be mentioned on CNN.

    The state representatives in question would probably leave the meeting all like:-

    ONE SOUL AT A TIME

    Quote Originally Posted by Danno
    i got nothing, you win again.
    Quote Originally Posted by resolve
    I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

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    Sexy Beast Feryk's Avatar
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    Fes, you don't have to worry about secession.

    However, you DO have to worry about Obama taxing the hell out of you (VAT or other taxes). He has to. That's the only way to pay for everything you are spending money on right now (including TARP, Afghanistan, the 1.8 trillion in Infrastructure spending he promised).

    He's pissed at Arizona because he's all about centralizing decision making and policy at the federal level. Will it fly? We'll see, but I doubt it. However, if he were to let this go, Texas and other states would be lining up to enforce their version of 'Immigration Law'. That is something he absolutely does not want.


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