Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30

Thread: Is Scotland Ready For Independence?

  1. #1
    Vae Victus frumpleswift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    213


    Yes | No

    Default Is Scotland Ready For Independence?

    It looks like the old Scottish independence argument is starting up again, but is that nation of plucky little drunks ready to rule itself?

    EDINBURGH, Scotland - The leader of the pro-indepedence Scottish National Party was installed Wednesday at the head of the new government in Scotland.

    Alex Salmond's party narrowly won elections May 3 that ended more than a half-century of dominance by the Labour Party.

    In the campaign, Scottish Nationalists promised to hold a referendum on independence from the rest of the United Kingdom by 2010. However, every other party in the Scottish Parliament favors the status quo and a referendum appears unlikely.

    Salmond pledged to work with other parties.

    "Scotland is ready for change, ready for reform," he said. "We are a small nation but we have a big future. We also have some big challenges."

    Salmond, 52, led the Scottish National Party from 1990 to 2000, when he surprisingly stepped down. He caused as much suprise four years later when he became a candidate to again lead the party.
    Sean Connery is a big proponent of Scottish independence, and crazy-ass director Mel Gibson's Braveheart gave a big boost to the movement in thr 90's.

    But really, do we honestly want the Scots in charge of anything? Look how they fucked up continually throughout history. Bonie Prince Charlie was a joke. The Stuarts were all stubborn, scottish, and probably Roman Catholic. Christ, Charles I made Oliver Cromwell look appealing.

    The scots make great alcohol, but that is pretty much all they have going for them, fans of Highlander not withstanding.

  2. #2
    Science Fucker Photobucket WarPhalange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    22,801


    Yes | No

    Default

    What's the point?

  3. #3
    Vae Victus frumpleswift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    213


    Yes | No

    Default

    Racial/cultural pride? Or some such stupidity.

  4. #4
    Science Fucker Photobucket WarPhalange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    22,801


    Yes | No

    Default

    It's a small fucking island. They don't need to split it up even more.

  5. #5
    Registered Member Supporting Member bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,042


    Yes | No

    Default

    I guess the point would be that they could ally themselves more closely with Europe, take on the Euro and dissociate themselves from English foreign policy. Not to mention pretend that it makes up for centuries of the English lording it over them.

  6. #6
    Shawarma
    Guest Shawarma's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Default

    Oh yeah, Scotland should get independence. Let them finance that big fucking welfare slum that IS Scotland themselves.

  7. #7
    Matsufubu
    Guest Matsufubu's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Default

    Heh heh...this is something I'm very interested in, as an Englishman who used to live in Scotland.

    Scottish independence:

    British Parliament: "There will be an 11 billion defecit in your budget, and you will not be able to sustain your quality of life."

    SNP: "Yeah, but, we hate English people!"

    British Parliament: "You'll have to go begging cap-in-hand to Brussels, and accept the Euro and all of their terms."

    SNP: "Boo! Down with England"

    British Parliament: "We're already a small island; together we are stronger in Europe and the world."

    SNP: "Err...centuries of oppression...umm...Braveheart...err...FREEDOM!"

    Here's some news for you guys not familiar with Britain: England does not oppress Scotland, far from it. We keep them afloat. Our next Prime Minister is a Scot for goodness' sakes. The fact of the matter is that Scotland would have to go begging to Brussels and rely on EU subsidies, like some semi-developed shithole. Perhaps that would be fine, but the fact remains that Scotland would be held in the palm of the EU far more so than it is with England (i.e. not at all), and is not important enough to have any say in EU politics without England. This isn't the 14th century any more, it's just nationalistic nonsense based on stupid rivalry with England and watching too much Braveheart (I can vouch for this from experience).

    And don't get me started on the history of England and Scotland. Braveheart is not a historical documentary, and Scotland is far, far away from the 'victim' it loves to play, nor is it innocent in history.
    Last edited by Matsufubu; 17th May 07 at 03:40 AM.

  8. #8
    Registered Member Supporting Member bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,042


    Yes | No

    Default

    Matsu, I hear what you're saying. As someone who lived in Wales and had to live through all their laughable talk of independence (far more unlikely and unworkable than the Scots) I sympathise.

    However, what about the Republic of Ireland? They've really flourished by jumping into Europe with both feet.

  9. #9
    Matsufubu
    Guest Matsufubu's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Default

    Yes, I think that this is what would happen with Scotland, and I presume that this is what the SNP are thinking will happen. However, I don't think the SNP are smart or strong enough to replicate Ireland's success, nor is the Scottish economy or infrastructure strong enough to support such growth.

    Some people say that Scotland would collapse without England, but I disagree. It wouldn't collapse; it would just need to find another support, i.e. Europe. Scotland would rely on EU subsidies, and without either the population or the economy to influence Brussels, will essentially become 'just another country', a client state of Germany and France. Not to mention the potentially disastrous effects on trade with England, which Scotland would rely on for most of its trade income. France and Germany would use Scotland to try to undermine England, which would just lead to a cold economic war and bad relations between countries.

    England would have a puppet-state of it's European rivals on it's borders, and independence would only increase the feeling of separation, and even breed ill-feeling between the countries. Like Poop-Loops said, we're already a tiny island already, breaking us up would perhaps make England slightly weaker (or maybe much stronger since we'd have loads of extra money to invest?) and Scotland completely helpless, but with the chance of some EU handouts.

    But hey, "FREEDOM!", right?

  10. #10
    Liffguard
    Guest Liffguard's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Default

    There are numerous benefits for England if Scotland does pursue independence. Aside from the alleviation of the subsidies that Westminster already provides (as Matsufubu stated above) it would also solve the West Lothian question. In fact, the West Lothian question and the economic situation are pretty closely tied.

    Scotland's public sector is far more extensive than England's. I think Scottish public spending is roughly 40% of GDP. The reason Scotland has this larger public sector is that they have their own devolved parliament that has a certain degree of independence on various social and economic issues. They raise their own taxes, have their own education policy, their own welfare policy etc. In spite of this, they also send MPs to Westminster. What this means is that elected Scottish MPs can vote on Bills in Westminster that don't apply to Scotland. Scotland can force legislation on England that otherwise would have ben defeated even though said legislation might not apply to Scotland. The controversial University Top-up Fees Bill was voted in in this way.

    Personally, I think Scotland and England are too economically entangled for independence to make a huge economic difference. However, it could help solve some political/social issues.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
◮ Top