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Thread: Proof of God (Previously Moderated)

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    Default Proof of God (Previously Moderated)

    This thread is for the discussion of empirical evidence supporting the existence of the Judaeo-Christian God.

    This thread will be moderated so as to keep it on-topic, and free from derailment.

    Ground Rules:

    1. Cite sources, preferably with URLs so that they can be referenced.

    2. Limit evidence to that which actually is evidence. Semantics and circular arguments do not count as evidence.

    For the purposes of this discussion we will be using Kant's definition of "empirical" evidence as that which can be proven only by (objective) experience". Meaning your personal "conversations with God" are irrelevant as they are subjective.

    3. Arguments must be free from logical fallacies, a list of which can be found here:

    http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

    Again, this thread will be moderated in the interest of facilitating mature discussion between the interested parties.

    Go.
    "Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. "
    - Robert A. Heinlein

  2. #2
    Jackass imported_Blazer's Avatar
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    in the "proof" of god can we discuss the shortcomings of other creation threoys as proof?
    bart "bee seven"
    homer" you sunk my scrabble ship"
    lisa "this game makes no sense?"
    homer "tell that to the good men who just lost their lives, SEMPER FI!"

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    No. This thread is for those who believe in "god" to prove his existence to those of us who require evidence before we accept things as true.
    "Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. "
    - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Jackass imported_Blazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrack
    No. This thread is for those who believe in "god" to prove his existence to those of us who require evidence before we accept things as true.
    ............... its hard to argue with just emperical facts, and not pointing out the competitions unemperical facts.
    bart "bee seven"
    homer" you sunk my scrabble ship"
    lisa "this game makes no sense?"
    homer "tell that to the good men who just lost their lives, SEMPER FI!"

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    Registered Member Thespis's Avatar
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    You still don't get it. Evidence does not have to be something measured. In this case it isn't even something that can be measured. However, that does not mean it isn't there unless you limit your thinking. If you understand much of the bible, God has no interest in "proving his existence". It's about personal experience and perception based on faith. I realize it seems unpractical from your experience. How does one measure feelings, miracles, and that which is beyond the human mind to grasp? Why does it have to be measured to be true?

    There have been plenty of miraculous recoveries by people who have been sick when the doctors fully expected the patient to die from their illness. They could not explain the recovery or find any evidence of what or why it happened. Yet the patient has a clean bill of health with no sign of the illness. There it is staring them in the face flying in the face of human reason. They can't explain it, but it is true despite what can or can't be explained.

    That's some pretty limited critical thinking and very arrogant (not to mention ridiculous) to suggest that something can only be true if it can be proven empirically and grasped by the human mind.
    ~Thespis~

    If you believe in nothing, you become nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thespis
    You still don't get it. Evidence does not have to be something measured. In this case it isn't even something that can be measured.
    The very definition of evidence is something that can be measured. If you cannot prove it exists, then you need to stop suggesting it does, or concede that your views are irrational and are not based in anything other than your desire that they be true.


    However, that does not mean it isn't there unless you limit your thinking. If you understand much of the bible, God has no interest in "proving his existence". It's about personal experience and perception based on faith. I realize it seems unpractical from your experience. How does one measure feelings, miracles, and that which is beyond the human mind to grasp? Why does it have to be measured to be true?
    Because:

    a.) Rational people expect proof of something when they're told to take it seriously.

    and

    b.) if it is intangible, unquantifiable, then it is more than likely subjective, if not just a product of a combination of imagination and emotion.

    Faith is not evidence of anything other than itself.

    There have been plenty of miraculous recoveries by people who have been sick when the doctors fully expected the patient to die from their illness. They could not explain the recovery or find any evidence of what or why it happened. Yet the patient has a clean bill of health with no sign of the illness. There it is staring them in the face flying in the face of human reason. They can't explain it, but it is true despite what can or can't be explained.
    None of which represent anything other than unexplained phenomena, and not proof of an all-powerful, all knowing, benevolent god. They're just unexplained.

    I'd suggest you recuse yourself from this discussion. You obviously have no proof of your beliefs, nor any intention whatsoever to provide any.

    I'll wait for Chantress to respond.
    "Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. "
    - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Please keep your posts related to the topic.
    "Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. "
    - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Registered Member Morley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thespis
    God has no interest in "proving his existence".
    Un-true. According to the bible he "demands" that you worship "him"...Sounds like he is very interested in proving his existance...if you believe in him
    To do is to be: Socrates.
    To be is to do: Plato
    Do be do be do: Sinatra

    Ignorance is kela

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    Senior Member Energiser's Avatar
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    Fine, i'll keep my post on topic.

    1) this thread is fundamentally stupid.

    2) Faith and Proof are mutually exclusive.
    BLEE!
    ah shadap.

  10. #10
    ثمطچ۶אىشغك٢ Zaxum's Avatar
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    I think all of your threads that you post are very interesting, Phrack, excluding this one, however. There really isn't any way to prove God exists just by saying, "Oh me and the big G-Dog were throwing back a few brews talking a muck about the dawn before time and shizniet, holmes!" What you're obviously looking for is some substancial evidence that God exists.. and I'll tell you what. I've been waiting my whole life for some kind of evidence or even a 'sign' that he's up there. Something that will renew my faith and give me a push knowing that my faith in him is 'correct' or is going in the right direction. Thing is, I've never got it.

    But I still believe he exists. Hate to go into anything that might be a fallacy, but certain events in my life have bolstered my faith, even though I've experienced no phenomina that would prove to me that there is an almighty watching over every little thing I do. I just believe he's there. Noone in this world is obliged to prove anything to anyone.. why should God? He is what he is, doing what he does, when he does it, because he is who he is. That's that.
    The Artist Formerly Known as Zaxum
    Planetside Junkie

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