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Thread: American Chronology of Terrorism?

  1. #1
    Guest Noodlepower's Avatar

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    Default American Chronology of Terrorism?

    i was researching the internet to do 'my website review' paper for US history. and ran into this site

    How much of this do you think is true? true as in, yes the US govt and CIA were responsible for the atrocities listed on that site.

    I would say a lot of this is true in a sense. but i wouldn't be able to say much to back up my opinion since i'm not an expert on world/ US history. anyone would like to comment on any of the issues discussed on this site?

  2. #2
    The Wastrel
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    Just as an illustrative example:

    After World War II, the United States suppressed popular progressive organizations, who had been allies in the war — at times with brutal force — in favor of the conservatives who had collaborated with the Japanese.

    As a result, the best opportunities to unify North and South were derailed.
    Stupefyingly, hilariously wrong.

    This led to a long era of corrupt, reactionary and ruthless governments in the South
    Compared to the North?

    and the huge, war-crime filled American military intervention of 1950-53 in the "Korean War", which was far from the simple affair of North Korea invading South Korea on a particular day, which the world has been led to believe.
    Correct, there were many skirmishes between North and South before the North invaded. And there were some atrocities committed during the Korean War. No Geun Ri is an example.

    In 1999, we learned that shortly after the war began, American soldiers machine-gunned hundreds of helpless civilians; amongst many other such incidents, hundreds were killed when the US purposely blew up bridges they were crossing.
    This is just No Geun Ri again.
    Last edited by The Wastrel; 17th April 04 at 08:21 PM.

  3. #3
    The Wastrel
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    Here's an article I found on a very radical site. Even this complicates the issue a little.

    The No Gun Ri Massacre

    by Sang-Hun Choe
    Charles J. Hanley
    Martha Mendoza

    Associated Press
    September 29, 1999

    It was a story no one wanted to hear: Early in the Korean War, villagers said, American soldiers machine-gunned hundreds of helpless civilians under a railroad bridge in the South Korean countryside.

    When the families spoke out, seeking redress, they met only rejection and denial, from the U.S. military and their own government in Seoul. Now a dozen ex-GIs have spoken, too, and support their story with haunting memories from a “forgotten” war.

    American veterans of the Korean War say that in late July 1950, in the conflict’s first desperate weeks, U.S. troops killed a large number of South Korean refugees, many of them women and children, trapped beneath a bridge at a hamlet called No Gun Ri.

    In interviews with The Associated Press, ex-GIs speak of 100 or 200 or “hundreds” dead. The Koreans, whose claim for compensation was rejected last year, say 300 were killed at the bridge and 100 in a preceding air attack.

    American soldiers, in their third day at the warfront, feared North Korean infiltrators among the fleeing South Korean peasants, veterans told the AP.

    The ex-GIs described other refugee killings as well in the war’s first weeks, when U.S. commanders ordered their troops to shoot civilians, citizens of an allied nation, as a defense against disguised enemy soldiers, according to once-classified documents found by the AP in U.S. military archives.

    Six veterans of the 1st Cavalry Division said they fired on the civilians at No Gun Ri, and six others said they witnessed the mass killing.

    “We just annihilated them,” said ex-machine gunner Norman Tinkler of Glasco, Kansas.

    After five decades, none gave a complete, detailed account. But the ex-GIs agreed on such elements as time and place, and on the preponderance of women, children and old men among the victims.

    Some said they were fired on from among the refugees beneath the bridge. But others said they don’t remember hostile fire. One said they later found a few disguised North Korean soldiers among the dead. But others disputed this.

    Some soldiers refused to shoot what one described as “civilians just trying to hide.”

    The 30 Korean claimants — survivors and victims’ relatives — said what happened July 26-29, 1950, was an unprovoked, three-day carnage.

    “The American soldiers played with our lives like boys playing with flies,” said Chun Choon-ja, a 12-year-old girl at the time.

    The story of No Gun Ri has remained undisclosed for a half-century.

    The U.S. military has said repeatedly it found no basis for the allegations. On Wednesday, after the AP report was released, Pentagon spokesman P.J. Crowley said, “We just have no information in historical files to lend any clarity to what might have happened in July 1950.”

    The AP’s research also found no official Army account of the events.

    Some elements of the No Gun Ri episode are unclear: What chain of officers gave open-fire orders? Did GIs see gunfire from the refugees or their own ricochets? How many soldiers refused to fire? How high in the ranks did knowledge of the events extend?

    The troops dug in at No Gun Ri, 100 miles southeast of Seoul, South Korea’s capital, were members of the 7th Cavalry, a regiment of the 1st Cavalry Division. The refugees who encountered them had been rousted by U.S. soldiers from nearby villages as the invading army of communist North Korea approached, the Korean claimants said.

    It was the fifth week of the Korean War. Word was circulating among U.S. troops that northern soldiers disguised in white peasant garb might try to penetrate American lines via refugee groups.

    “It was assumed there were enemy in these people,” ex-rifleman Herman W. Patterson of Greer, S.C., said of the civilian throng.

    As they neared No Gun Ri, leading ox carts, with children on their backs, the hundreds of refugees were ordered off the dirt road by American soldiers and onto parallel railroad tracks, the Koreans said.

    What then happened under the concrete bridge cannot be reconstructed in full detail. Although some ex-GIs poured out chilling memories, others offered only fragments, or abruptly ended their interviews. Over the three days, soldiers were dug in over hundreds of yards of hilly terrain, and no one — Korean or American — saw everything.

    But the veterans corroborated the core of the Koreans’ account: that American troops kept the large group of refugees pinned under the No Gun Ri railroad bridge and killed almost all of them.

    “It was just wholesale slaughter,” said Patterson.
    Both the Koreans and several ex-GIs said the killing began when American planes suddenly swooped in and strafed an area where the white-clad refugees were resting. Bodies fell everywhere, and terrified parents dragged their children into a narrow culvert beneath the tracks, the Koreans said.

    Some ex-GIs believe the strafing was a mistake, that the pilots were supposed to strike enemy artillery miles up the road. But declassified U.S. Air Force reports from mid-1950, found by the AP, show that pilots also sometimes deliberately attacked “people in white,” apparently suspecting disguised North Korean soldiers were among them.

    Ex-GI Delos Flint said he and other soldiers were caught in the U.S. air attack and piled into the culvert with the refugees. Then “somebody — maybe our guys — was shooting in at us,” he recalled. The soldiers managed to slip out.

    Retired Col. Robert M. Carroll, then a first lieutenant, remembers 7th Cavalry riflemen opening fire on the refugees from nearby positions.

    “This is right after we get orders that nobody comes through, civilian, military, nobody,” said Carroll, of Lansdowne, Va.

    Two days earlier, 1st Cavalry Division headquarters had issued an order: “No refugees to cross the front line. Fire everyone trying to cross lines. Use discretion in case of women and children.” A neighboring U.S. Army division, in its order, said civilians “are to be considered enemy.”

    Experts in the law of war told the AP that such orders, to shoot civilians, are plainly illegal.

    Carroll said he got the rifle companies to cease fire. “I wasn’t convinced this was enemy,” he said.

    He then shepherded a boy to safety under a double-arched concrete railroad bridge nearby, where shaken and wounded Koreans were gathering. He saw no threat.

    “There weren’t any North Koreans in there the first day... It was mainly women and kids and old men,” recalled Carroll, who said he then left the area and knows nothing about what followed.

    The Americans directed the refugees into the 80-foot-long bridge underpasses and after dark opened fire on them from nearby machine-gun positions, the Koreans said.

    Veterans said the heavy-weapons company commander, Capt. Melbourne C. Chandler, after speaking with superior officers by radio, had ordered machine-gunners to set up near the tunnel mouths and open fire.

    “Chandler said, ‘The hell with all those people. Let’s get rid of all of them!’” said Eugene Hesselman of Fort Mitchell, Ky.

    “We didn’t know if they were North or South Koreans. ... We were there only a couple of days and we didn’t know them from a load of coal.”

    Chandler and other key officers are dead. The colonel who commanded the battalion, Herbert B. Heyer, 88, of Sandy Springs, Ga., told the AP he knew nothing about the shootings and “I know I didn’t give such an order.” Veterans said the colonel apparently was leaving operations to subordinates at the time.

    The Korean claimants said those near the tunnel entrances died first.

    “People pulled dead bodies around them for protection,” said survivor Chung Koo-ho, 61. “Mothers wrapped their children with blankets and hugged them with their backs toward the entrances. ... My mother died on the second day of shooting.”

    Some ex-soldiers said gunfire was coming out of the underpasses, but others don’t remember any. None of the ex-GIs interviewed supported one veteran’s statement that he and others afterward discovered “at least seven” dead North Korean soldiers in the underpasses, in uniform under peasant white.

    Some GIs didn’t fire, veterans said. “It was civilians just trying to hide,” said Flint, of Clio, Mich.

    All 24 South Korean survivors interviewed individually by the AP said they remembered no North Koreans or gunfire directed at the Americans.

    One suggested the Americans were seeing their own comrades’ gunfire ricocheting through from the tunnel’s opposite ends.

    Relevant U.S. Army documents say nothing about North Korean soldiers killed under a bridge or anything else about No Gun Ri.

    The precise death toll will never be known. The survivors believe 300 were killed at the bridge and 100 in the air attack. Ex-GIs close to the bridge generally put the dead there at about 200. “A lot” also were killed in the strafing, they say.

    The U.S. government’s civil liability may be limited. It is largely protected by U.S. law against foreign lawsuits related to “combatant activities,” although the claimants say the killings were not directly combat-related.

    War crimes prosecution appears even less likely. The U.S. military code condemns indiscriminate killing of civilians, even if a few enemy soldiers are among a large number of noncombatants killed, legal experts note. But prosecution so many years later is a practical impossibility, they say.

    AP Investigative Researcher Randy Herschaft contributed to this report.
    Looking over the site, I found a mixture of fact and politicized fiction.

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  5. #5
    Guest Noodlepower's Avatar

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    thanks was. i might use that site for my paper.

  6. #6
    Registered User punchingdummy's Avatar
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    Nov 2003

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    Originally posted by The Wastrel
    Looking over the site, I found a mixture of fact and politicized fiction.
    This will be an accurate statement that could be repeated many times between now and November....and is at the core of my favorite Wastralism...the irrational partisan.

  7. #7
    Registered Member Dralion's Avatar
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    Feb 2004

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    Might I also recommend you pick up Blowback by Chalmers Johnson.

    Might help with your paper a bit. Also Secrets Lies And Democracy and What Uncle Sam Really Wants by Noam Chomsky.
    I should be able to love my country and still love justice.
    <i>Albert Camus</i>

  8. #8
    Guest DJeter1234's Avatar

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    i recomend "Savage Wars of Peace" if you want a fairly-rational conservitive justification of a lot of those conflicts. Don't know how big of a paper this is, though.

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