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PeedeeShaolin
18th February 04, 02:44 PM
The snakes are out. A recent photo was shown of John Kerry at a peace rally with Jane Fonda. The press tried to link Kerry with a love affair scandal. Now the photo has been proven to be doctored and a scam. I wonder why something like this happened, hmmmmm.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3499775.stm

Lets see how much of this our media actually reports.

Dochter
18th February 04, 02:54 PM
Fonda isn't a traitor for visiting n.vietnam and opposing the war.

She is absolute scum for giving notes passed to her by pow's who wanted word to reach their families to the North Vietnamese. For that she should have been publically beated. Bitch.

The Wastrel
18th February 04, 03:00 PM
Anybody remember what happened to John McCain during the last Republican primaries?

kismasher
18th February 04, 03:04 PM
i'm sure rush limbaugh, matt drudge, sean hannity, and many other right wing media people will have a field day with this one.

m4949
18th February 04, 03:29 PM
Dochter,
I didn't know she did that?
I will always hate her for letting herself be photographed on a NVA anit aircraft gun.

m4949
18th February 04, 03:30 PM
wasteral, what happend to McCain?

m4949
18th February 04, 03:35 PM
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/fonda_pic.jpg

Whore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Interestingly enough, I don't see any sign of Kerry here.

Dochter
18th February 04, 03:36 PM
That's cause she was shooting at him.

The Wastrel
18th February 04, 03:44 PM
Throughout the "Straight Talk Express," staffers and McCain family members whispered about the vitriol poisoning "push-poll" phone calls in both South Carolina and Michigan, which will hold its primary on Tuesday. One anecdote has a push-poller bad-mouthing the McCains for having a "black child in their family" -- a reference to the McCains' adopted 8-year-old daughter Bridget, a former resident of Mother Theresa's orphanage in Bangladesh.

There were also leaflets mailed pointing out that McCain had a "nigger" daughter. The telephone campaign specifically accused him of fathering the girl, rather than adopting her. Additionally, they accused him of giving his wife an STD. This site only mentions the phone call campaign.

http://archive.salon.com/politics2000/feature/2000/02/18/dirty/index1.html

kismasher
18th February 04, 04:44 PM
ahhh, yes the infamous push polls. i had forgotten about those:

for the uninformed:

a push poll example:

pollster: Hi my name is Jon Smith, i am calling on behalf or company "Y" and independent polling organization. I wonder if i could have a minute of your time?

innocent victim: "sure, i can answer a couple of questions"

pollster: would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain if you found out that he has black child from another woman?

innocent victim: "less likely, i guess"

pollster: thank you for your time, be sure to vote.



*** the "independent polling company" is not independent nor is it a polling company, it's republican campaign aids. McCain has an adopted child, I think she is polynesian, and was often seen with his wife and children on tv. This confirms the "pollster's" message as most people will not take the time to learn the facts.

edit: per Wastrel, the child is not Polynesian, but from Bangladesh

CaptShady
18th February 04, 04:51 PM
Nice rip off from Al Franken. For each and every "terrible thing" done by one party .. the other has done it too.

kismasher
18th February 04, 05:12 PM
it doesn't make it any less true does it, captain asshole

the vile filth that rush and co spill have no equivalent in the dem party

CaptShady
18th February 04, 05:18 PM
What a crock kissmyasser. I find it funny how you dems like to attack but can't handle simple facts. Stop being pissed because no democrat can be entertaining enough to keep up high enough ratings to have a show last longer than 1 season.

CaptShady
18th February 04, 05:19 PM
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN FEB 15, 2004 23:00:32 ET XXXXX
FLASHBACK: MEDIA GRILLED BUSH OVER 'ADULTERY' CLAIMS

As main press players blast the DRUDGE REPORT and foreign outlets for revealing details of a behind-the-scenes campaign drama surrounding candidate Kerry and the nature of his relationship with a mystery woman -- just 12 years ago the same players peppered former President George Bush with questions surrounding an infidelity rumor!

In 1992 top reporters swiftly reacted to a footnote in a book quoting a long dead ambassador.

CNN rushed to get the rumor into the media stream as White House correspondent Mary Tillotson confronted President Bush as he hosted Israel Prime Minister Rabin in the Oval Office.

"There is an extensive series of reports in today's New York Post alleging that a former U.S. ambassador, a man now deceased, had told several persons that he arranged for a sexual tryst involving you and one of your female staffers in Geneva in 1984."

Asked NBC's Stone Phillips to the president's face at the height of the "rumor mongering":

"Have you ever had an affair?"

CBS' Harry Smith then confronted Bush spokesperson Mary Matalin over on-air morning coffee:

"Let me ask you about something else. There's a book out, or a book that's just about out that in a footnote names that then-Vice President Bush had an affair with an assistant when he was on a mission in Geneva. Well, that footnote has turned into frontpage news (holding up N.Y.POST), at least in New York, in the N.Y. POST. Albeit a tabloid, it is usually a conservative newspaper. Are you ready to say that accusation is a flat out lie?"

NEWSWEEK's Jonathan Alter defended the aggressive adultery rumor line-of-questioning of the first President Bush on ABC's NIGHTLINE on August 12, 1992, on a broadcast titled: "The Media Charges George Bush With Adultery."

"In this situation, the Oval Office isn't a temple," Alter explained. "The President is a candidate and he has to be asked tough, often distasteful, but nonetheless important kinds of questions."

UPI's Helen Thomas also defended the Bush affair reportage:

"Some people might have felt that it wasn't appropriate. But when you have the President there, I think it's very legitimate to ask him any question."

CUT TO 2004:

NEWSWEEK'S Alter blasted any and all coverage of the Kerry infidelity probe last week on a New York City talkradio outlet -- calling the investigation "sleazy."

The media outrage over an erupting story of possible infidelity of a presidential candidate -- 2004 -- peaked with Joe Conason's cover story in SALON late last week ["There he goes again! Matt Drudge and the GOP smear machine are back in the Democrats' pants"]

Conason lamented:

"But the kind of proof usually required by national news organizations isn't what Drudge needs in order to put innuendo into circulation."

But is this really the same Joe Conason who in the Summer of 1992 wrote a magazine cover story entitled "1,000 REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR GEORGE BUSH?"

Consaon's reason #1:

"He cheats on his wife."

The rumor of President Bush having an affair was never proved by the media.

The developing Kerry drama may or may not join it on the shelf.

kismasher
18th February 04, 05:25 PM
yeah, that's your one example. do you really want to say that the dem's match the rep's in mudslinging?

The Wastrel
18th February 04, 06:19 PM
Who cares? It's all bad.

Mr_Mantis
18th February 04, 08:35 PM
This picture is fake:

Mr_Mantis
18th February 04, 08:35 PM
But this one is real:

blankslate
18th February 04, 11:30 PM
Jane Fonda was hot as Barbarella.

The Wastrel
19th February 04, 01:14 AM
What was Jason Lee doing in an anti-war protest in 1970?

The Wastrel
19th February 04, 01:23 AM
Did a little checking and discovered that the story about the slips of paper has been proven false.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.htm

Also, that picture above is from 1970, and Fonda went to Vietnam in 1972, so on top of the fact that Kerry is hardly embracing Fonda, there is the fact that she would commit her terrible error two years AFTER this photo was taken.

kismasher
19th February 04, 09:19 AM
lol at Jason Lee, the years have been kind

Shuma-Gorath
19th February 04, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by CaptShady
What a crock kissmyasser. I find it funny how you dems like to attack but can't handle simple facts. Stop being pissed because no democrat can be entertaining enough to keep up high enough ratings to have a show last longer than 1 season.

The republicans certainly have been running quite the "entertaining" circus since Clinton's character assassination.

I live in Canada, and I can see from here that the American right is an order of magnitude worse than the left.

CaptShady
19th February 04, 10:19 AM
With his win in Iowa, Sen. John Kerry could be on his way to the White House. But most Americans are unaware of the real Kerry.
Here are facts and quotations that reveal the character of the new Democrat leader.

Denouncing America with ‘Hanoi’ Jane: Although Wesley Clark and others have attacked former front-runner Howard Dean as a draft-dodging ski bum, Kerry is far more complex than the simple war hero he portrays himself as.
He became a celebrated organizer for one of America's most extreme appeasement groups, Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He consorted with the likes of “Hanoi” Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark, Lyndon Johnson’s radical former attorney general.

He attended a seminar bankrolled by Fonda in Detroit in February 1971. Watching 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testify at a Howard Johnson’s about atrocities allegedly committed by U.S. forces, the man who would be president later said he found the accounts shocking and irrefutable.

Dubbed “The Winter Soldier Investigation,” the protest attracted minimal media attention, according to the Los Angeles Times, because Fonda insisted it be held in the remote Michigan city rather than the less “authentic” Washington, D.C.

Still, the event gave Kerry an idea for a protest that was sure to be a media smash, and he immediately set out to organize one of the most confrontational protests of the war.

Operation Dewey Canyon III began on April 18, 1971, when nearly 1,000 Vietnam veterans and people claiming to be veterans gathered on Washington’s Mall for what they called “a limited incursion into the country of Congress.”

The group staged mock firefights on the steps of the Capitol and Supreme Court and defied U.S. Park Police after the Department of Justice issued an injunction barring it from camping on the Mall.

Those evil American soldiers: Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed that U.S. soldiers had “raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”

‘We are not the best’: In his testimony, Kerry claimed there was no communist threat and said: “In 1970 at West Point Vice President Agnew said ‘some glamorize the criminal misfits of society while our best men die in Asian rice paddies to preserve the freedom which most of those misfits abuse,’ and this was used as a rallying point for our effort in Vietnam. But for us, as boys in Asia whom the country was supposed to support, his statement is a terrible distortion from which we can only draw a very deep sense of revulsion, and hence the anger of some of the men who are here in Washington today. It is a distortion because we in no way consider ourselves the best men of this country ….”
U.S. Veteran Dispatch noted in 1996: “Kerry's testimony, it should be noted, occurred while some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in North Vietnamese prisons. Kerry was a supporter of the ‘People's Peace Treaty,’" a supposed ‘people's’ declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditions for ending the war.”

Throw as I say, not as I do: On that same day he led members of VVAW in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the U.S. Capitol.
Kerry later admitted the medals he threw were not his. To this day they hang on the wall of his office.

Communist stooge: The communist Daily World delightedly published photos of him speaking to demonstrators and boasted that the marchers displayed a banner depicting a portrait of Communist Party leader Angela Davis, on record stating, “I am dedicated to the overthrow of your system of government and your society,” the New American recalled in May 2003.
“By frequently participating in VVAW’s demonstrations, Kerry found himself marching alongside what the Boston Herald Traveler identified as ‘revolutionary Communists.’ While noting that known Reds had openly organized these events, the December 12, 1971 Herald Traveler reported the presence of an ‘abundance of Vietcong flags, clenched fists raised in the air, and placards plainly bearing legends in support of China, Cuba, the USSR, North Korea and the Hanoi government.’"

Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry says: “As a national leader of VVAW, Kerry campaigned against the effort of the United States to contain the spread of Communism. He used the blood of servicemen still in the field for his own political advancement by claiming that their blood was being shed unnecessarily or in vain.

“Under Kerry's leadership, VVAW members mocked the uniform of United States soldiers by wearing tattered fatigues marked with pro-communist graffiti. They dishonored America by marching in demonstrations under the flag of the Viet Cong enemy.”

Sen. John McCain revealed that his North Vietnamese captors had used reports of Kerry-led protests to taunt him and his fellow prisoners. Retired General George S. Patton III angrily noted that Kerry’s actions had “given aid and comfort to the enemy.”

In recent years when Kerry has exploited the Vietnam Veterans Memorial for photo opportunities on Veterans Day, some veterans, still outraged by his betrayal, have turned their backs on him.

The book he doesn’t want you to see: When Kerry ran for election to the U.S. House of Representative in 1972, “he found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima,” according to Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.
“Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person shown on its cover: ‘These people spit on the flag, they burn the flag, they carry the flag upside down, [and] they all but wipe their noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything it still stands for,’” the New American reported.

Even today it is hard to find this infamous photo and book.

CaptShady
19th February 04, 10:20 AM
Friendly with the enemy: Kerry’s fondness for Vietnam’s communist dictatorship, one of the most oppressive in the world, continues.
As chairman of the Select Senate Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, created in 1991 to investigate reports that U.S. prisoners of war and soldiers designated missing in action were still alive in Vietnam, Kerry badgered the panel into voting that no American servicemen remained in Vietnam.
“[N]o one in the United States Senate pushed harder to bury the POW/MIA issue, the last obstacle preventing normalization of relations with Hanoi, than John Forbes Kerry,” noted U.S. Veteran Dispatch.

“But Kerry's participation in the Committee became controversial in December 1992,” reported the nonpartisan Center for Public Integrity, “when Hanoi announced that it had awarded Colliers International, a Boston-based real estate company, an exclusive deal to develop its commercial real estate potentially worth billions. Stuart Forbes, the CEO of Colliers, is Kerry's cousin.”

The “odd coincidence,” according to FrontPageMagazine.com, involved a deal worth $905 million.

Jeff Jacoby, the token conservative columnist at the Boston Globe, notes that Kerry continues his apologia for Vietnam's never-ending atrocities. "Far from taking the lead on the Vietnam Human Rights Bill, he has prevented it from coming to a vote. He claims that making an issue of Hanoi's repression would be counterproductive."

Kerry is also a fan of China’s communist dictatorship. “On May 19, 1994, five years after Tiananmen Square, Kerry spoke on the Senate floor against linking China's Most Favored Nation trade status to its human rights record,” Slate reported.

Kerry said: “China is the strongest military power in Asia. We need China's cooperation. We cannot afford to adopt a cold-war kind of policy that merely excludes and pushes China away.”

Limiting China's MFN status “would make us a bit player in a production of enormous proportions. We possess no stick, including MFN, which can force China to embrace internationally recognized human rights and freedoms.”

More extreme than Hillary and Kucinich: Among the White House wannabes, long-shot Rep. Dennis Kucinich has the reputation of holding the most left-wing congressional voting record. In fact, this “honor” goes to Kerry.
According to American Conservative Union, Kerry has a lifetime rating of 6 percent, compared to 13 for the demolished Rep. Dick Gephardt, 14 for Sen. John Edwards, 15 for Kucinich and 19 for Sen. Joe Lieberman.

Sens. Hillary Clinton and Tom Daschle score 13 percent. Only the likes of Sens. Teddy Kennedy and Barbara Boxer have more left-wing records than Kerry. In contrast, Sen. John Breaux, one of the upper chamber’s few remaining moderate Democrats, has a 46.

Drive as I say, not as I do: Like Al Gore and other self-described environmentalists, Kerry has a radical agenda that would devastate the U.S. economy in favor of the likes of communist China, yet he enjoys the gas-guzzling modern conveniences that greens denounce. Kerry, a delegate to the environment-destroying Earth Summit in 1992 (where he met his future wife, left-wing activist Teresa Heinz, the multimillionaire widow of GOP Sen. John Heinz), the Kyoto climate talks in 1997 and the Hague Conference of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change in 2000, has attacked President Bush for withdrawing from the anti-U.S. Kyoto Protocol. This treaty, which then-President Bill Clinton had signed, would impose severe restrictions on the United States but not Third World polluters that already enjoy huge trade surpluses with the U.S.
However, although Kerry spouts the party line on anti-U.S. ecopolicy, he doesn’t like to practice what he preaches. Kerry was humiliated in April 2002 when photographed attending a rally against energy independence and then heading back to his SUV, the symbol of all that is evil to self-described greens.

Bone to pick: Bush-hating conspiracy theorists find it alarming that the president, like his father, was a member of the secretive Skull and Bones society at Yale University. Another alum of this club: John Kerry.

Get out your wallets: One reason Kerry and Edwards did well in Iowa: Losers Dean and Gephardt admitted they'd repeal all of the president's tax relief. However, although Kerry has taken credit for middle-class tax cuts, child tax credit and relief of the marriage penalty, he voted against them, GOP.com disclosed.
"Kerry will have to expend an awful lot of time and money to convince people that he's not the classic Massachusetts liberal," Larry Sabato, a respected political analyst at the University of Virginia, told the Associated Press in December 2002. "And that's going to be tough, because mainly he is."

Waffling on Iraq: Kerry has the tough job of wooing Howard Dean’s anti-war Democrats despite his support of the war in Iraq. His favorite tactic, claiming the president outfoxed him, doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
On “Meet the Press” in late August, Tim Russert played a tape of Kerry addressing the Senate in October 2002 with a hard-line speech declaring Iraq “capable of quickly producing weaponizing” of biological weapons that could be delivered against “the United States itself.”

Kerry insisted: “That is exactly the point I’m making. We were given this information by our intelligence community.”

However, as columnist Robert Novak noted, “as a senator, Kerry had access to the National Intelligence Estimate that was skeptical of Iraqi capability. Being tricky may no longer be as effective politically as it once was.”

No doubt Dean, Lieberman, Clark and other rivals will now use these and other details to do to Kerry what the Democrats did to Dean.

The Wastrel
19th February 04, 10:39 AM
Where did you get that garbage?

CaptShady
19th February 04, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by The Wastrel
Where did you get that garbage?

Out of my "vast right wing conspiracy" trunk :p

I tried snopes on this one .. couldn't find it to be untrue ... yet.

The Wastrel
19th February 04, 11:02 AM
Which part?

tenguatemypuppy
19th February 04, 11:04 AM
Fonda isn't a traitor for visiting n.vietnam and opposing the war.

She is absolute scum for giving notes passed to her by pow's who wanted word to reach their families to the North Vietnamese. For that she should have been publically beated. Bitch

Well said. The North Vietnamese, I do not believe, where inherently evil as one usually makes their enemy out to be.

Jane Fonda, however, is another matter entirely.

kismasher
19th February 04, 11:07 AM
hey Capt,

how about a link from where you copied that?

CaptShady
19th February 04, 11:09 AM
It was an email, sorry.

And again, I'm NOT voting for Bush. This will be the first election since old enough to vote that I won't vote repulican. But to say "they're evil and we're not" in politics is just plain old crap.

m4949
19th February 04, 11:10 AM
Hey Capt. How long have you been working for the RNC?

CaptShady
19th February 04, 11:13 AM
LOL ... although I've helped a local school board republican candidate on his campaign (and didn't get paid for it), I've never been involved.

And as much as I seem like some staunch republican, I'm a moderate.

kismasher
19th February 04, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by CaptShady
It was an email, sorry.

And again, I'm NOT voting for Bush. This will be the first election since old enough to vote that I won't vote repulican. But to say "they're evil and we're not" in politics is just plain old crap.

an email from where?

i would love to know where this trail leads.

The Wastrel
19th February 04, 11:15 AM
Like I pointed out, the POWs mentioned in the story of Jane Fonda and the notes have ALL denied that ever happened. There's a link up there if you want to go take a look.


He attended a seminar bankrolled by Fonda in Detroit in February 1971. Watching 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testify at a Howard Johnson’s about atrocities allegedly committed by U.S. forces, the man who would be president later said he found the accounts shocking and irrefutable.

Fonda went to Hanoi in 1972.


Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed that U.S. soldiers had “raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”

I'll help you with your fact-finding Shady...This is actually true. Atrocities were committed by US forces in Vietnam.


“Kerry's testimony, it should be noted, occurred while some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in North Vietnamese prisons. Kerry was a supporter of the ‘People's Peace Treaty,’" a supposed ‘people's’ declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditions for ending the war.”

Do you know the allegations that Kissinger and Nixon conspired to sabotage the Johnson talks? How about the fact that the final agreement was almost identical to the Paris proposals?

Christ...it's 2004 and we're still talking about the Communist threat in Vietnam? Blame McNamara, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon...Don't blame Kerry. That was a sick, dirty war that split the country and still resonates today.

At least Kerry had the wherewithal to form some opinions on it. Many of his contemporaries were apparently barely aware of it. Cheney got how many student deferments?

The Wastrel
19th February 04, 11:16 AM
"they're evil and we're not"

Who said that?

CaptShady
19th February 04, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by kismasher
an email from where?

i would love to know where this trail leads.

Can't remember, I'm in the IT field and as such have a lot of friends with email capabilities, and get plenty of jokes, rants, etc. I know I got the email, and posted it on a political board, which is how I was able to copy/paste it in here.
The board URL is: here (http://members5.boardhost.com/algorithms2/)

kismasher
19th February 04, 11:19 AM
rolls eyes...

CaptShady
19th February 04, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by The Wastrel
Who said that?


Originally posted by kismasher
the vile filth that rush and co spill have no equivalent in the dem party

kismasher
19th February 04, 11:28 AM
hey it's not my fault the republican smear machine occasionally bites the hand that feeds

:)

CaptShady
19th February 04, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by kismasher
hey it's not my fault the republican smear machine occasionally bites the hand that feeds

:)

LOL, I'd go further and say "occasionally" is an understatement .. but I'll also hold to the point that you could replace "republican" with "democrat", "libertarian", etc.

kismasher
19th February 04, 11:36 AM
fair enough, i'm glad you get a kick out of my humor,

i'll go antagonize someone else for awhile