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Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
21st January 16, 06:10 AM
1. He is a socialist. Sanders is running as a "Democratic socialist", but in his long political career he became comfortable with just "socialist" ("I am a socialist and everyone knows it," he once said.) He frames his political ideology this way: "Democratic socialism means that we must create an economy that works for all, not just the very wealthy." His fight for equal treatment of the poor and middle class and against the "billionaire class" is a central tenet of his campaign, and the socialist mantle has positioned him further left of centre than Clinton.

2. Climate change is real. After the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration marked 2015 as the hottest year on record, Sanders tweeted: "The debate is over. Climate change is real and caused by human activity." He wants to tax carbon emissions, repeal fossil fuel subsidies and invest in clean energy technology. He has opposed the Bakken and Keystone XL oil pipelines.

3. College should be free. "A college degree is the new high school diploma," Sanders wrote in a Washington Post opinion piece, arguing that class equality is impossible if a majority of Americans don't have access to a college education. He has introduced a plan to make tuition at public universities and colleges free by taxing Wall Street speculators.

4. Gun ownership is a "lifestyle that should not be condemned". Sanders' record on gun control has been mixed which he says is due to the fact that his constituents in Vermont are pro-gun and "99 percent of the people in my state who hunt are law abiding people". He supports universal background checks, but prefers to talk about reaching "common ground" when it comes to gun policies rather than sweeping new gun control regulation.

5. Black lives matter. Though Sanders was shouted down at his own campaign event by members of the Black Lives Matter group, he has since met activists and agrees that the high rate of unemployment and incarceration for African Americans is evidence of systemic racism in the US. He touts criminal justice reform as the answer to some of these issues.

6. He will not accept super PAC money. Sanders prides himself on the fact that his donors are mostly individuals and the average contribution to his campaign in the most recent quarter was just $27. He characterises the controversial Citizens United Supreme Court decision as "disastrous" and blames it for flooding the US political system with cash from special interest groups. "I do not believe that billionaires should be able to buy politicians," he told the Washington Post.

7. The minimum wage should be $15 (£10.59) per hour, up from $7.25. Sanders argues that no one who works 40 hours a week should be impoverished, however, some economists from both sides of the political spectrum are concerned that such a dramatic increase could have unintended consequences for poorer cities and struggling businesses.

8. Americans are tired of the two-party system. For decades, Sanders has railed against both the Democratic and Republican parties, saying they are too beholden to corporate money. Sanders was elected to the Senate as an independent, and some have said his rejection of both parties left him bereft of allies and ineffectual. Sanders argues his outsider status is what has driven his grassroots campaign.

9. He prefers to fly economy. Pictures of Sanders flying in the rear of regular commercial airline flights have gone viral and supporters have seized on the practice with hashtags like #SandersOnAPlane to show that Sanders is a humble everyman who would safeguard taxpayer money. Some of the candid shots of Sanders working in the middle seat have inspired memes juxtaposed with Clinton or Donald Trump boarding private aircrafts.

10. The US should adopt universal healthcare paid for by the federal government. Sanders has often spoke of his admiration for government-run healthcare systems in Canada and Scandinavian countries. "Bernie's plan means no more co-pays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges," his website promises. He means to finance it mostly from a payroll tax hike.

11. $1 trillion should be spent on infrastructure. Sanders wants to create jobs by investing heavily in new infrastructure projects that he says will create 13 million jobs over the course of five years. His "Rebuild America Act" would put that money into roads, bridges, water treatment systems, railways and airport projects - and comes with a $1 trillion price tag.

12. Tax the rich. Sanders wants to pay for his most sweeping proposals with a series of tax hikes and fees, mostly levelled at the wealthiest of Americans: hedge fund managers, Wall Street speculators and big businesses.

13. There should never have been a US-led war in Iraq. Sanders voted against the US invasion of Iraq in 2002 and says today that he stands by that decision. He calls it the "worst foreign policy blunder in the history of this country".

14. No boots on the ground in Syria or to fight IS. Sanders has a diplomacy-first attitude towards foreign policy and believes that Middle Eastern countries must lead the fight in their own region against the self-styled Islamic State group.

15. Personal style is a waste of time. While the Obamas are said to be the most stylish presidential couple since the Kennedys, a Sanders White House will be decidedly more frumpy. Sanders' wife Jane O'Meara once quipped that if he has "seven sweaters, that's three too many for him". When questioned about his frequently-rumpled hair, Sanders was brusque: "The media will very often spend more time worrying about hair than the fact that we're the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee healthcare to all people."

16. He likes to go by "Bernie". While campaigning in his home state of Vermont, Sanders' bumper stickers just said "Bernie". "You have to reach a certain exulted status in politics to be referred to only by your first name," Senator Patrick Leahy told the New York Times in 2007.

17. He would love to run against Donald Trump. "I have to tell you," he said at a recent news conference, "on a very personal level, it would give me a great deal of satisfaction to run against Donald Trump".

Source - BBC article. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35364868)

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oFyDnTelI8oaRM5yw/giphy.gif

So some of the above are obvious & have echos of the current People's Champion in the UK, Jezzboullah Corbynichoff

I was surprised by his stance on gun control though.

Feryk
21st January 16, 01:08 PM
I think Bernie Sanders would end up being as ineffectual as Jimmy Carter. Seems like a helluva guy, but I don't believe he'd be able to get much done.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
22nd January 16, 04:39 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7rbIIhqUSfXlBq4o/giphy.gif

Robot Jesus
24th January 16, 06:21 PM
he probably won't accomplish much, but he will shift the overton window a ton. The sun is setting on morning in america, it's about time we had another perspective.

resolve
24th January 16, 09:06 PM
Half his stuff sounds good, righteous even. The other half sounds horrid and a good way to expand government power in a very wrong direction.

I tend to think he would be ineffectual in foreign policy. I do like his 'Merica-first attitude, but he doesn't strike me as someone you want doing deals with other nations. Although, I do suspect that he is vastly more aware of his own shortcomings than other recent leaders we've had and would have many aides and such present to prevent his personality foibles from getting in the way. Or at least, I would hope so.

NoBowie
26th January 16, 03:29 PM
http://imgur.com/v7T8CIv.jpg

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th January 16, 04:05 PM
It wont be free, you'll be paying for it with your taxes.

Feryk
26th January 16, 04:58 PM
Nah. That's what the rich people are for, silly!

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th January 16, 05:19 PM
Nah they'll just go "off shore".

In fact at the moment I think William Gibson was onto something with the whole super rich just fucking off into Space to avoid paying tax.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th January 16, 05:20 PM
BASTARDS!!

NoBowie
26th January 16, 07:12 PM
It wont be free, you'll be paying for it with your taxes.

a significant portion of his constituents don't really understand that.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
27th January 16, 05:33 AM
BASTARDS!!!

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
27th January 16, 10:27 AM
http://imgur.com/v7T8CIv.jpg


https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/12369173_10208329239493503_1433246460625989085_n.j pg?oh=3d205f219c6a58988b8641c869a120fa&oe=57373517

NoBowie
27th January 16, 11:12 AM
No, I don't care about offshores tax avoidance. Make the U.S. corporation hospitable, or expect corporations to go overseas.

Also, corporations employ tons of people, something you lefties always forget. A big part of the decision to bail out banks and GM.

What makes more sense, let the companies dissolve and then create phony government jobs of some type for those folks or let them do something actually productive?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
27th January 16, 11:22 AM
No I'm gonna propose total free market (coz bad mood) & let the fuckers fail, because after all if they want to be treated like a person (after all in that why they get incorporated in the first place) that's what would happened without the Nanny State baling them out.

BASTARDS!!!

NoBowie
27th January 16, 12:21 PM
If you have to bail out someone, corporations make more sense than individuals.

The banks and car companies that were bailed out have already paid back their loans and many times more than their loans in taxes. Add wages and employment on there and bailout was a great investment.

MerkinMuffly
27th January 16, 12:53 PM
Yes, NoB, let's prop up businesses that are proven failures.

Great plan.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
27th January 16, 12:55 PM
I'm curious (I know you're an optimist by nature) but do you think that in the long run QE & the ball outs where the best idea?

I'm not point scoring here, I'd like to know your opinion.

NoBowie
27th January 16, 01:19 PM
Yes, NoB, let's prop up businesses that are proven failures.


You mean like more money from the government for each child you have even though you can't afford them?

Basically encouraging unwanted babies? Pretty much the source of most of societies ills, when you trace it back to the root.

The government should sell off welfare babies to the highest qualified bidder wanting to adopt a child.

MerkinMuffly
27th January 16, 01:33 PM
There you go again with "the government should".

You sound like a goddamn hippie.

MerkinMuffly
27th January 16, 01:35 PM
And who the fuck advocated for crotch spawn incentives?
Not me.

MerkinMuffly
27th January 16, 01:38 PM
I'm advocating for a cutting a $5,000 check for anyone getting their tubes tied.

Üser Friendly
27th January 16, 02:23 PM
How much for a vasectomy?

MerkinMuffly
27th January 16, 02:29 PM
You'll get an attaboy.

NoBowie
27th January 16, 02:31 PM
There you go again with "the government should".

You sound like a goddamn hippie.

The government is useful for enforcement.

This is something that should be enforced.

MerkinMuffly
27th January 16, 02:59 PM
Maybe your tronald can make the mezkins build a human traffiking machine and force them to pay for it.
You should probably lay off the sauce till afternoon.

Üser Friendly
28th January 16, 01:39 AM
You'll get an attaboy.

Sexist pig

MerkinMuffly
28th January 16, 03:59 AM
You just can't stop thinking about sex and pigs, can you?

Üser Friendly
28th January 16, 09:12 AM
Yes I can

There is also goats

Feryk
28th January 16, 05:42 PM
I'm advocating for a cutting a $5,000 check for anyone getting their tubes tied.

Well, that would solve your illegal immigration problems.

Robot Jesus
31st January 16, 06:48 PM
Dhot2OJKKZc

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
1st February 16, 05:44 AM
WJaW32ZTyKE

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
1st February 16, 11:16 AM
How This Weekend’s Bernie Sanders Iowa Rally Compared to Hillary Clinton’s.


Bernie:

http://3p3mq242g5jc2ki76r3wi6fq.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/bernieiowacity.jpg


Hillary:

http://3p3mq242g5jc2ki76r3wi6fq.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/hillarydubuque.jpg


Source (http://usuncut.com/politics/how-this-weekends-bernie-sanders-iowa-rally-compared-to-hillary-clintons/)

Robot Jesus
1st February 16, 02:57 PM
http://i.imgur.com/0t47r4s.jpg

NoBowie
1st February 16, 03:12 PM
http://i.imgur.com/zvdzU3y.png

Robot Jesus
1st February 16, 04:24 PM
so far this is my favorite thing to come out of the election

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
2nd February 16, 01:01 PM
Bernie supporters calling fowl....

x5M10FAhO1Q



Dontcha just love a sore loser.

resolve
4th February 16, 04:32 AM
Feel the Bern...

zUnhfvGdmmw

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
5th February 16, 05:12 AM
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12661934_1698336060429244_4835908791331293717_n.pn g?oh=f520420c678c764b7d7138ca0439c170&oe=573C03CD

Robot Jesus
7th February 16, 11:19 AM
http://i.imgur.com/wbmQ4q0.jpg

NoBowie
7th February 16, 01:54 PM
Bullshit. The more educated and ethical consumers behave, the better capitalism works.

With the advent of the internet and easier access to information, capitalism is more viable as a means for social improvement than it ever has been.

MerkinMuffly
7th February 16, 02:56 PM
Bullshit. The more educated and ethical consumers become, the more they realize the difference between actual free-market capitalism and the hogwash that is being touted as such by the corrupt military industrial complex.

FTFY.

NoBowie
7th February 16, 04:26 PM
That's separate. The military is the best jobs program out there.

It provides jobs in the military, outside of the military for supporting corporations, and works to reduce population.

No downsides, sorry hippie.

resolve
7th February 16, 05:50 PM
Did you ever serve in the military, Todd?

Üser Friendly
8th February 16, 03:49 AM
Bullshit. The more educated and ethical workers behave, the better socialism works.

With the advent of the internet and easier access to information, socialism is more viable as a means for social improvement than it ever has been.

So you agree that it is not the system it's self, but the participants that decide on the viability of any given system?

Üser Friendly
8th February 16, 03:51 AM
Did you ever serve in the military, Todd?

He did 6 months in the Navy I seem to recall

Which explains his fondness for getting pegged I suppose

Üser Friendly
8th February 16, 03:55 AM
That's separate. The military is the best jobs program out there.

It provides jobs in the military, outside of the military for supporting corporations, and works to reduce population.

No downsides, sorry hippie.

It is definitely a boon for construction workers who have to rebuild schools and hospitals destroyed in air strikes and other military actions

And imagine the unemployment problems they would have in The Levant were it not for ISIS getting those young men off the streets and decapitating babies

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
8th February 16, 07:55 AM
That's separate. The military is the best jobs program out there.

It provides jobs in the military, outside of the military for supporting corporations, and works to reduce population.

No downsides, sorry hippie.

Except for massive public funding issues & making the world a far more unstable place.

NoBowie
8th February 16, 12:32 PM
Nope. More stable place.

NoBowie
8th February 16, 12:34 PM
So you agree that it is not the system it's self, but the participants that decide on the viability of any given system?

Nope. Socialism controls the participants agressively, actively, severely limiting individual freedom. Capitalism is much more passive and uninhibited.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
8th February 16, 02:11 PM
Nope. More stable place.

You are obviously not on the same planet as the rest of us.

Üser Friendly
8th February 16, 02:18 PM
Nope. Socialism controls the participants agressively, actively, severely limiting individual freedom. Capitalism is much more passive and uninhibited.

Any system works well if all the participants are ethical and less selfish/greedy

Capitalism works well until folks get greedy and want more of the cake than is due them

Equally with socialism

You said it your self

Feryk
8th February 16, 02:20 PM
NoB has a point. Under socialist regimes, labor is often allocated inefficiently, resulting in overemployment in industries that become inherently inefficient - resulting in less than optimal use of resources for the society as a whole.

This is not nearly as severe in a capitalism based economy. In fact, you could argue that we are much more heavily in favor of using tech to replace labor as labor is expensive, unreliable and generally a pain in the ass. Hell, us capitalists would get along just fine running companies without ANY employees and get robots to do all the work! Why, if we did that, think of the money we'd save! Of course, it would mean less people would have any money at all, so there would be less of a market for my goods and services -but that's beside the point!

Üser Friendly
8th February 16, 02:29 PM
The problems with socialism/communism stem from the wrong people getting into positions of power and making bad decisions not any inherent fault in the system

A badly run capitalist system is not immune to wastefulness, and would not last any longer than any other badly run system

Feryk
8th February 16, 04:36 PM
It's not SOLELY about implementation, doof. Capitalist systems can work without a democracy - but democracy provides (or is supposed to) a check on the unmitigated profit motive. Just as separation of church and state is a fundamental principle, so should separation of government and business. Corporate welfare, etc. often uses employment as a justification for the government of the people bailing out the bad decisions of a relatively small group of bankers/businessmen.

Government needs to be the watchdog - not a lobbyist lapdog. Unfortunately, that isn't how it's worked itself out.

Pie of Hate
9th February 16, 04:03 AM
With most governments being corporate entities, that's all too true. We just get to have a small say in who sits on the board.

Üser Friendly
9th February 16, 08:26 AM
It's not SOLELY about implementation, doof. Capitalist systems can work without a democracy - but democracy provides (or is supposed to) a check on the unmitigated profit motive. Just as separation of church and state is a fundamental principle, so should separation of government and business. Corporate welfare, etc. often uses employment as a justification for the government of the people bailing out the bad decisions of a relatively small group of bankers/businessmen.

Government needs to be the watchdog - not a lobbyist lapdog. Unfortunately, that isn't how it's worked itself out.

democracy is not really the point I'm making, especially as the notion of real representative democracy is a warm lie

The point I am making is that any systems works well with ethics and over sight at all levels, and all systems are unfair if greed is the primary motivating factor for the participants

each system has it's own sets of pros and cons, but to say ___ism is good and ___ism is bad seems a little naive and infantile

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th February 16, 09:30 AM
The point I am making is that any systems works well with ethics and over sight at all levels, and all systems are unfair if greed is the primary motivating factor for the participants.

How do you propose such oversight is accomplished?

Üser Friendly
9th February 16, 10:41 AM
trained oversight monkeys in every home

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th February 16, 10:44 AM
So you have no idea in other words.

Üser Friendly
9th February 16, 11:44 AM
I never claimed to have a plan for over sight of political systems

What is your plan for oversight of political systems Dr?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th February 16, 12:13 PM
I have none but then I again I wasnt suggesting that one was needed, that was you.

Üser Friendly
9th February 16, 12:58 PM
You think political systems don't need a system of over sight of those in power?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th February 16, 02:56 PM
No, I dont think political systems (as they pertain to the current discussion) should exist in the first place.

Feryk
9th February 16, 03:02 PM
each system has it's own sets of pros and cons, but to say ___ism is good and ___ism is bad seems a little naive and infantile

Except that capitalism IS good. By good, I mean the most efficient means with which to deploy capital to meet the demands of the society at large. And if that is good, then by definition all other ___isms that are less efficient are BAD.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th February 16, 03:43 PM
Do I take it that you agree with Hayek about the economic calculation problem inherent in Socialism?

Feryk
9th February 16, 05:17 PM
Yes, but Weber was the first to discuss it, AFAIK.

Having said that, it is far from a miraculous leap in logic to believe that a small group of people cannot determine the needs of the market better than the market itself can. Steve Jobs doesn't count :)

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th February 16, 05:26 PM
Think it might of been Von Mises initially.

Feryk
9th February 16, 06:11 PM
Could be. I'm a little sketchy on my economic history these days.

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 02:28 AM
No, I dont think political systems (as they pertain to the current discussion) should exist in the first place.

What is your model for social organisation?

can you cite any examples of it's successful implementation?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th February 16, 05:41 AM
What the fuck just happened to my last post?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th February 16, 05:55 AM
What is your model for social organisation?

I have always been drawn to Mutualism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_%28economic_theory%29). For all my left leaning posts, I have actually have a surprising amount of time for Anarcho-Individualism.


can you cite any examples of it's successful implementation?

Unfortunately not & I'm not entirely convinced that such a system wouldn't just degenerate into something like the current state of affairs anyway.

I have seen some Mutualist ideas put into action on a small scale but such experiments are few & far between.

I am a big advocate for Space Migration & think that it would be best for the Global Economy if, it directed the majority of its energy towards the exploitation of Space. In my opinion this would allow us to become a truly energy rich society & may foster the changes needed on a mass scale for my Anarcho-Individualist Utopia to be realized.

MerkinMuffly
10th February 16, 06:10 AM
What the fuck just happened to my last post? It's not yours anymore.
It belongs to all the comrades of Berniestan.

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 06:17 AM
Except that capitalism IS good. By good, I mean the most efficient means with which to deploy capital to meet the demands of the society at large.


Is it though?

Cuba has 1.5% of population below the poverty line

USA has 13.66% of population below poverty line

Seems Cuban Socialism is meeting the demands of it's population more efficiently by that meter

Pie of Hate
10th February 16, 06:58 AM
Did you look at each country's definition of poverty?

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 08:25 AM
That was Wiki's definition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th February 16, 11:17 AM
Sanders won 60 percent of the vote, but thanks to the Democratic Party’s nominating system, he leaves the Granite State with at least 13 delegates while she leaves with at least 15 delegates.

New Hampshire has 24 “pledged” delegates, which are allotted based on the popular vote. Sanders has 13, and Clinton has 9, with 2 currently allotted to neither.

But under Democratic National Committee rules, New Hampshire also has 8 “superdelegates,” party officials who are free to commit to whomever they like, regardless of how their state votes. Their votes count the same as delegates won through the primary.

New Hampshire has 8 superdelegates, 6 of which are committed to Hillary Clinton, giving her a total of 15 delegates from New Hampshire as of Wednesday at 9 a.m.

The state’s 2 remaining superdelegates remain uncommitted.

In the overall delegate count, Clinton holds a commanding lead after a razor-thin victory in Iowa and a shellacking in New Hampshire. Clinton has 394 delegates, both super and electorally assigned, to only 42 for Sanders.

Source (http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/10/hillary-earns-more-new-hampshire-delegates-than-sanders-after-loss/#ixzz3zmZFeepF)

So does this mean that potentially Hillary could win the nomination regardless of how the votes in the caucuses go?

Strange system you have there.

NoBowie
10th February 16, 11:21 AM
http://i.imgur.com/RN0NfzI.gif

Pie of Hate
10th February 16, 11:25 AM
That was Wiki's definition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

One looks at the states in 2015, the other looks at Cuba in 2006. Go update your sources you big girl's blouse!

NoBowie
10th February 16, 11:42 AM
http://i.imgur.com/QtxKrC3.gif

NoBowie
10th February 16, 11:59 AM
That was Wiki's definition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

Goddamn you are an idiot. Learn the difference between the U.N. definition of Poverty (something like folks living on less than $1.25 USD per day) and poverty as defined by a country (Like the U.S., which defines that as someone living on less than like $30 a day)

Also, from your very link:
Americans have the highest average household and employee income among OECD nations, and in 2010 had the fourth highest median household income, down from second highest in 2007.[40][41] It has been the world's largest national economy (not including colonial empires) since at least the 1890s

You have your head so far up socialism's ass you can't see straight. Goddamn I am glad you aren't a policy maker or a politician.

Also, the HDI is a better measure of what potential your average person has growing up in a country, it takes into account life longevity, income, and education:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Compl ete_list_of_countries

U.S. is number 8, bitch. Ahead of Canada. Cuba is 67. Tied with Lebanon.

Kudos for Ireland, tied for number 6.

In short, if you are born in the U.S. you have a damn fine chance of having a pretty good life. Are there problems? Sure. But even with many very evil corporations that employ so many people things are pretty sweet.

Also, how has Ireland moved up the chart? By making themselves more attractive to... CORPORATIONS.

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 12:36 PM
One looks at the states in 2015, the other looks at Cuba in 2006. Go update your sources you big girl's blouse!

Go winge about it to Wikipedia you Cuba hater

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 12:43 PM
But seriously

I can't get the figures for Cuba recently

But try this graph

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=69

USA 15.1% BPL

China 6.1% BPL

China is perhaps a better comparison as it is a lot closer to USA in terms of population and GDP

So Communism wins...again!!!

NoBowie
10th February 16, 12:48 PM
Nope. Poverty is only income related. Sorry. Not a good measurement. It doesn't even reflect purchasing power / access to goods / support provided by welfare.

Or health related stats. Or access to education.

If you are such a believer, go live in China and tell me how much better it is.

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 12:53 PM
^cognitive dissonance

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th February 16, 12:56 PM
Soz Dooftard but he has a point.

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 12:58 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Compl ete_list_of_countries


Your point would be well made had the number 1 spot not been occupied by a Socialist/Green party coalition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red%E2%80%93green_coalition_%28Norway%29

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 01:03 PM
Soz Dooftard but he has a point.

Shut your dirty mouth

HOAR!

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 01:22 PM
You have your head so far up socialism's ass you can't see straight. Goddamn I am glad you aren't a policy maker or a politician.

I'm no more a Socialist than I am a Capitalist, I can see the merits of both and think the positive aspects of both should be adopted. I'm a Pragmatist


My point is...

Rampant Capitalism is just as bad a Rampant Socialism , and ethical, fair Capitalism is just as good as ethical fair Socialism

Feryk
10th February 16, 01:27 PM
This is in the face of all relevant evidence. But go ahead and believe that.

NoBowie
10th February 16, 01:28 PM
Nope.

Capitalism is better. More freedom. Smaller government.

Fair Capitalism is better than Fair Socialism and Bad Capitalism is better than Bad Socialism.

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 01:42 PM
But is Bad Capitalism better than Fair Socialism?

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 01:44 PM
This is in the face of all relevant evidence. But go ahead and believe that.

Perhaps you could provide that evidence?

The Socialism in Norway seems to be pretty good (according to NoB's figures anyway)

Maybe I should go live there?

Feryk
10th February 16, 01:47 PM
Say hello to Anders Brevik. Tell him you are an immigrant.

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 01:49 PM
Hey, it's a free country man

Smörgåsbord?

NoBowie
10th February 16, 02:42 PM
Norway is 'good' socialism, yes.

But the U.S. is 'bad' capitalism.

Yet, they are pretty close.

MerkinMuffly
10th February 16, 02:45 PM
As long as NoB can skate by in a system where he doesn't really have to produce anything, he will defend it.

NoBowie
10th February 16, 02:57 PM
As long as NoB can skate by in a system where he doesn't really have to produce anything, he will defend it.

Umm... I produce computing power and storage. You know how much of that folks use every day?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th February 16, 03:10 PM
A hand full?

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 03:11 PM
Norway is 'good' socialism, yes.

But the U.S. is 'bad' capitalism.

Yet, they are pretty close.

I would not call US 'bad' Capitalism, I would call Somalia 'bad' Capitalism

'Good' Socialism is better than 'average' Capitalism then?

Feryk
10th February 16, 03:12 PM
Hey, it's a free country man

Smörgåsbord?

If you are Norwegian, then sure.

Üser Friendly
10th February 16, 03:21 PM
Hey!

No. 4 on NoB's list is also Socialist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Compl ete_list_of_countries

And the top 5 are all Constitutional Monarchies

Perhaps America should re join the Commonwealth?

Cullion
10th February 16, 03:30 PM
Nob's views on corporate bailouts vs poor people bailouts make total sense from a Fascist perspective.

MerkinMuffly
10th February 16, 03:44 PM
Preach on, Brother Cullion!

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th February 16, 04:04 PM
Sorry but you cant use such gendered terms in Berniekistan.

The correct term is Comrade Cullion.

NoBowie
10th February 16, 06:33 PM
http://i.imgur.com/KCfYHzU.png

Feryk
10th February 16, 08:09 PM
How many people does Beyonce employ?

MerkinMuffly
10th February 16, 08:21 PM
It's not OK for Beyonce to make 50 million.

Üser Friendly
11th February 16, 02:11 AM
If Beyonce was Norwegian she would share out her wealth more fairly

or move to America

The Americans would vote her Queen

They are ready for her jelly

Üser Friendly
11th February 16, 02:21 AM
Norway is 'good' socialism, yes.

But the U.S. is 'bad' capitalism.

Yet, they are pretty close.

By your own figures, US is clearly 'good' capitalism', and is still beaten by two tiny socialist states who's main exports are pickled fish

So you can either agree with my point that both Capitalism and Socialism are equal, and it is their implementation that determines their efficacy, or accept that Socialism is, in fact better than Capitalism and go hang yourself from you 3D wall

Which is it to be?

NoBowie
11th February 16, 09:18 AM
Nope. You have limited the choices incorrectly. America is not good capitalism. Markets aren't near as free as they should be. Good capitalism is not just about results economically, you can get nice economic results with bad capitalism. Good capitalism is about free markets, no monopolies, letting the invisible hand work, and good consumers who educate themselves before buying.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
11th February 16, 09:41 AM
... and good consumers who educate themselves before buying.

Would they be allowed to know the contents of the produce they were buying?

Üser Friendly
11th February 16, 10:54 AM
Perhaps you should just try and find some figures that suit you POV rather than make ridiculous arguments and moving the goal posts to suit the 'Smoking Gun' figures that have got you into this intellectual cul-de-sac, nob

NoBowie
11th February 16, 11:03 AM
Perhaps you should just try and find some figures that suit you POV rather than make ridiculous arguments and moving the goal posts to suit the 'Smoking Gun' figures that have got you into this intellectual cul-de-sac, nob

So you are telling me, that the U.S. is a good example of free market capitalism?

If it isn't obvious to you why it is not, I am not going to waste time with you. Everyone else on here but you already knows. Pay for / source your own education.

Üser Friendly
11th February 16, 11:05 AM
Nope. You have limited the choices incorrectly. Norway is not good socialism. Markets aren't near as controlled as they should be. Good socialism is not just about results economically, you can get nice economic results with bad socialism. Good socialism is about controlled markets, state monopolies, letting the invisible hand work, and good workers who educate themselves before contributing to society.

See how interchangeable the terms are

Üser Friendly
11th February 16, 11:06 AM
So you are telling me, that the U.S. is a good example of free market capitalism?

If it isn't obvious to you why it is not, I can't think of a way to get me out of the hole I've found myself in, so will ignore you and have a hissy fit. Everyone else on here but you already knows. Pay for / source your own education.

So which is the best capitalist country in the world then?

Surely they should be nipping at socialisms heels what with capitalism being so great and all?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
11th February 16, 11:16 AM
NOB isnt really into a "free market", he's into a weird double-speak version sold to him by Raygun.

For instance, he isnt pro-consumer choice just look at his track record concerning GMO labeling.

Üser Friendly
11th February 16, 11:19 AM
I think he has problems with the terms 'Good' and 'Bad' also

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
11th February 16, 11:25 AM
Yeah ever since he stopped wearing those Magic Knickers.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
11th February 16, 11:56 AM
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12715629_925037314270188_4449144599764228999_n.jpg ?oh=65954d9adc4de140861541da6ff0f4f9&oe=57688099

NoBowie
11th February 16, 12:30 PM
Enforcing GMO labeling as a government entity is not free market.

If consumers want that, they should only buy stuff with GMO labeling.

Also, a truly educated consumer wouldn't give a shit about GMO vs. Non-GMO. Anti-GMO and Anti-vaccination -> basically the same type of thinking... crazy.

They both need some more education.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
11th February 16, 12:51 PM
Forcing the government to allow an opt out of labeling is also not a free market & not giving consumers the information they need to make a truly free choice.

You only support some freedom in the market NoB.

Suppose a car company, lets call it VW, didn't want to tell you about a manufacturing problem because that would affect sales. In your version of the free market, lets call it the free meerkat, then in your free-meerkat that would be totally acceptable. Even though it could be potentially lethal.

NoBowie
11th February 16, 01:07 PM
Wrong + Bad example.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
11th February 16, 01:17 PM
Right & good example

NoBowie
11th February 16, 01:20 PM
concatenated false statements.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
11th February 16, 01:23 PM
http://45.media.tumblr.com/491792b3abe65dd61ef81e9e11601894/tumblr_o0hqwzT0bM1u929uoo1_250.gif

NoBowie
11th February 16, 01:25 PM
^ male stomach fetish.

Feryk
11th February 16, 03:51 PM
Good capitalism by Nob's definition? Pre-1996 Hong Kong.

Üser Friendly
12th February 16, 03:27 AM
Best now?

Pie of Hate
12th February 16, 03:52 AM
Best now?

It's still pre '96 Hong Kong.

Üser Friendly
12th February 16, 08:07 AM
Not helpful Cake

Not helpful

Feryk
12th February 16, 02:45 PM
Pre-1996 Hong Kong - From the Wiki article

Hong Kong's gross domestic product has grown 180 times between 1961 and 1997. Also, the GDP per capita rose by 87 times within the same time frame.[27] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Hong_Kong#cite_note-27) Its economy size (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)) is slightly bigger than Israel and Ireland[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Hong_Kong#cite_note-28)[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Hong_Kong#cite_note-wbpdf-29)[30] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Hong_Kong#cite_note-30) and its GDP per capita at purchasing power parity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita) is the sixth highest globally in 2011, higher than the United States and the Netherlands and slightly lower than the Brunei.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Hong_Kong

Üser Friendly
12th February 16, 02:52 PM
Yes, I get it

Pre-96 Hong Kong was a capitalist utopia

But that was 20 years ago

Remember? When you could still see your penis when you looked down

What about 2016?

Surely, according to Nob's list, it should be Australia or Switzerland

What with capitalism being inherently better than socialism and all that

Üser Friendly
12th February 16, 03:08 PM
https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/which-countries-are-socialist-which-are-not/

according to this article most of the world is socialist

NoBowie
12th February 16, 03:16 PM
https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/which-countries-are-socialist-which-are-not/

according to this article most of the world is socialist

"My position is that social democracy is a form of socialism. The social democrats call themselves socialists and their parties are typically called socialist parties."

Hmm. Not really. I think the part in red below is the biggest difference. Below is a good comparo.

https://spfaust.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/socialism-vs-social-democracy-whats-the-difference/

Socialism vs Social Democracy — What’s The Difference?



One is about collective ownership of the means of production;

the other about organic social solidarity with private ownership of production.



One is restrictive;
the other libertarian.



One is metaphysical (excessively abstract reasoning);
the other empirical (demonstrable, verifiable reasoning).



One is dogmatic;
the other scientific.



One is emotional;
the other reflective.



One is destructive;
the other constructive.



Both are in pursuit of the greatest possible welfare for all.

– One aims to establish happiness for all;
– the other to enable each to be happy in one’s own way.


The first regards the State as a society “sui generis,” of a unique essence, the product of a right outside of and above all society, with special rights and able to exact special obediences;
the second considers the State as an association like any other, generally managed no better and no more efficient than others.



The first proclaims the sovereignty of the State;
the second recognizes no sort of sovereign.



One wishes all monopolies to be held by the State;
the other wishes the abolition of all monopolies.



One wishes the governed class to become the governing class;
the other wishes the disappearance of classes.



Both declare that the existing state of things cannot last.

– The first considers revolutions as the indispensable agent of evolutions;
– the second teaches that repression alone turns political evolutions into revolution.


The first has faith in a cataclysm;
the second knows that social progress will result from the free play of individual efforts.



One wishes that there should be none but proletariats;
the other wishes that there should be no more proletariats.



The first wishes to take everything away from everybody;
the second wishes to leave each in possession of its own.



The one wishes to expropriate everybody;
the other wishes everybody to be a proprietor.



The first says: Do as the government wishes;
the second says: Do as you wish yourself.



The former threatens with despotism;
the latter promises liberty.



The former makes the citizen the subject of the State;
the latter makes the State the employee of the citizen.



One proclaims that labor pains will be necessary to the birth of a new world;
the other declares that real progress will not cause suffering to any one.



The first has confidence in social war;
the other believes only in works of peace.



One aspires to command, to regulate, to legislate;
the other wishes to attain the minimum of command, of regulation, of legislation.



One would be followed by the most atrocious of reactions;
the other opens unlimited horizons to progress.



The first will fail;
the other will succeed.



One desires equality; the other seeks equity.

– The first by lowering heads that are too high;
– the other by raising heads that are too low.


One sees equality under a common yoke;
the other will secure equity in complete liberty.



One is intolerant;
the other tolerant.



One frightens;
the other reassures.



The first wishes to instruct everybody;
the second wishes to enable everybody to instruct one’s self.



The first wishes to support everybody;
the second wishes to enable everybody to support one’s self.



One says:

– The land to the State
– The mine to the State
– The tool to the State
– The product to the State


The other says:

– The land to the cultivator.
– The mine to the miner.
– The tool to the laborer.
– The product to the producer.





(https://spfaust.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/socialism-vs-social-democracy-whats-the-difference/)

Üser Friendly
13th February 16, 04:49 AM
Very informative

So which current country is the best 'Good capitalist'?

(not pre-96 Hong Kong)

NoBowie
13th February 16, 09:36 AM
Your mom's cooch.

Üser Friendly
13th February 16, 02:01 PM
as soon as it gets tough you just give up

Pathetic

MerkinMuffly
13th February 16, 02:03 PM
Sorry, doof, you just got out doofed.

Üser Friendly
13th February 16, 02:09 PM
Damn!

Üser Friendly
14th February 16, 03:30 AM
So, in short, you Capitalism fan boy's position is:


Socialism sucks and you are just gonna have to believe us

Capitalism is fucking brilliant 20 years ago in Hong Kong so fuck you!

I am disappointed and dismayed that all you guys, who are way smarter than me apparently, can't form a cohesive argument between you, to defend the ideology you hold so dear

NoBowie
15th February 16, 04:40 PM
http://i.imgur.com/zTCvrQc.jpg?1

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
15th February 16, 05:10 PM
They also liked a large army, a surveillance state & being pegged.

NoBowie
15th February 16, 06:19 PM
They also liked a large army, a surveillance state & being pegged.

I didn't know they had the trifecta. I was born in the wrong era and on the wrong continent!

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
15th February 16, 07:52 PM
Lebell would be so proud of you right now

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
16th February 16, 05:53 AM
Elderly should do community work or lose pension, peer says. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9630862/Elderly-should-do-community-work-or-lose-pension-peer-says.html)

Üser Friendly
16th February 16, 07:58 AM
Lord Bitchard LOL

MerkinMuffly
16th February 16, 12:13 PM
rPh-qGcYruw

Feryk
16th February 16, 12:23 PM
So, in short, you Capitalism fan boy's position is:



I am disappointed and dismayed that all you guys, who are way smarter than me apparently, can't form a cohesive argument between you, to defend the ideology you hold so dear

No argument is necessary. The objective evidence was there, you just wouldn't read it or can't understand it.

Hong Kong's capitalist based system even had banks printing their OWN currency. They had exchange rates between themselves. Almost everything except law enforcement was privatized.

Growth rates, and unemployment rates were astounding. The population base exploded as people tried to move there. Hong Kong was one of the most happening places in the world for entertainment, industry, innovation, finance, etc. Had it continued, today it would be bigger than New York in both population and GDP.

Then the commies took over. Growth continues, but is slowed. Immigration really slowed down. More and more government controls and regulations have taken hold. It's still a happening place, but not as happening as it could have been.

Üser Friendly
16th February 16, 02:04 PM
No argument is necessary. The objective evidence was there, you just wouldn't read it or can't understand it.

Hong Kong's capitalist based system even had banks printing their OWN currency. They had exchange rates between themselves. Almost everything except law enforcement was privatized.

Growth rates, and unemployment rates were astounding. The population base exploded as people tried to move there. Hong Kong was one of the most happening places in the world for entertainment, industry, innovation, finance, etc. Had it continued, today it would be bigger than New York in both population and GDP.

Then the commies took over. Growth continues, but is slowed. Immigration really slowed down. More and more government controls and regulations have taken hold. It's still a happening place, but not as happening as it could have been.

So if the system is sound why are there no examples of the Hong Kong model around today?

Really Freky, is an example from 20 years ago all you have in the way of 'evidence'?

Üser Friendly
16th February 16, 02:20 PM
Had it continued, today it would be bigger than New York in both population and GDP.

Perhaps, or more likely the bubble would have burst, like all those kinds of growth bubbles you have described, always, always do

NoBowie
16th February 16, 06:03 PM
http://i.imgur.com/hvH7FeJ.jpg


http://imgur.com/gallery/09Xoz

Üser Friendly
17th February 16, 04:09 AM
Almost everything except law enforcement was privatized.

And health care

And education

And housing

Honk Kong is sounding more and more Socialist all the time


Then the commies took over. Growth continues, but is slowed.

It could be argued that PRC actually insulated HK from the Asian Financial Crisis

It would certainly have been in China's benefit to have a functioning economy in HK to take advantage of the situation

Feryk
17th February 16, 12:06 PM
And health care

And education

And housing

Honk Kong is sounding more and more Socialist all the time



It could be argued that PRC actually insulated HK from the Asian Financial Crisis

It would certainly have been in China's benefit to have a functioning economy in HK to take advantage of the situation

Okay dipshit, time for some actual knowledge.

First, I said HK was the BEST example, NOT an absolute one. ABSOLUTE capitalism is like ABSOLUTE communism - it's a theory, but not possible to implement fully. Period. So yes, the HK government DID do things, like build housing for immigrants - because they had to. So, since you actually spent two minutes googling, I'll give you another source to read that will demonstrate what I am trying to get through to you:

https://eh.net/encyclopedia/economic-history-of-hong-kong/

Some highlights:

"The economic development of Hong Kong is unusual in a variety of respects. First, industrialization was accompanied by increasing numbers of small and medium-sized enterprises (SME) rather than consolidation. In 1955, 91 percent of manufacturing establishments employed fewer than one hundred workers, a proportion that increased to 96.5 percent by 1975. Factories employing fewer than one hundred workers accounted for 42 percent of Hong Kong’s domestic exports to the U.K. in 1968, amounting to HK$1.2 billion. At the end of 2002, SMEs still amounted to 98 percent of enterprises, providing 60 percent of total private employment.
Second, until the late 1960s, the government did not engage in active industrial planning. This was partly because the government was preoccupied with social spending on housing large flows of immigrants, and partly because of an ideological sympathy for free market forces. This means that Hong Kong fits outside the usual models of Asian economic development based on state-led industrialization (Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan) or domination of foreign firms (Singapore) or large firms with close relations to the state (Japan, South Korea). Low taxes, lax employment laws, absence of government debt, and free trade are all pillars of the Hong Kong experience of economic development."

Üser Friendly
17th February 16, 01:19 PM
Ok 'Dipshit'

Here's is what I'm trying to get through to you

I asked for what was the best example of capitalism NOW to compare to the likes of Norway and Denmark on NoB's list of cool countries

So you cite an example from 20 years ago

Thanks


Okay dipshit, time for some actual knowledge.

First, I said HK was the BEST example, NOT an absolute one. ABSOLUTE capitalism is like ABSOLUTE communism - it's a theory, but not possible to implement fully.

kind of the point I was making, that neither is perfect, and both have merits, and it is the implementation that matters, not the theory

Thanks again

In fact the more I read about HK the more it seems to agree with my point that any purist regime is doomed to fail, and pragmatism is more successful in the real world


So yes, the HK government DID do things, like build housing for immigrants - because they had to.

What, you mean they adopted socialist policies because it was good for business? Heavens!



You are yet to demonstrate your claims that Capitalism is inherently better than socialism, and going on about how awesome HK was 20 years ago isn't really helping

Nor is calling me mean names

But thanks anyway

Feryk
17th February 16, 02:05 PM
Mean names? I didn't realize your feelings were so easily hurt. After reading your last statement, I realized we are having discussion about related points, but they are separate ideas. So, let me see if this helps.

1.) Pragmatism trumps ideology: Sure. The real world requires solutions that are often shades of gray. Purist philosophies are excellent for discussion purposes, but difficult to adhere to in real life.

2.) Now vs. 20 years ago. For the very reason above, it is difficult to find as 'pure' an example as the HK before the Chinese took over. But just because it isn't current doesn't mean it has no utility in this discussion. I would argue that it is actually supremely appropriate because HK's economic history highlights the differences between the two ideologies we are discussing. I can't think of any other region where it would be so directly observable.

3.) Doomed to fail. HK did not in fact, fail. It was just absorbed by something far, far larger. One can argue that it is now the main engine for Chinese economic growth (although the Shanghai Free Trade Zone is arguably going to eclipse it one day).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Free-Trade_Zone

It's an interesting read. It's the Chinese government's attempt to utilize the free market capitalist pool of talent in HK. A lot of the business owners are moving up to Shanghai to take advantage of this. They know they have access to a pool of some of the most aggressive, innovative entrepreneurs in the world.

Üser Friendly
17th February 16, 03:32 PM
I'm the sensitive type

I agree HK is an interesting example, but it does not seem any better at capitalism than USA, it has just approached public ownership in different areas, and as any NoB will tell you USA capitalism is Bad capitalism and must not be compared to Norway

Under any circumstances

As to what might have been, we will never know, but I'm sure PRC's effect on HK's economy was way greater than visa versa

Plus I'm balking at the use of historic examples as I was expressly forbidden to use stats from Cuba that were only 10 years old

Perhaps we should compare Cuba 10 years ago to HK 20 years ago

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
17th February 16, 04:48 PM
Bernie Sanders is not a panacea against all that ails our society. He has said from the beginning of his campaign that he is here to ignite the fire of a political revolution – a movement to mobilize everyday Americans to demand accountability from our political establishment. There are plenty of arguments that dismiss Sanders – he’s too old, he won’t have a compliant Congress, the people won’t tolerate a Socialist, et al. These criticisms miss the point – Bernie is a rallying point, a symbol of the progress Americans are clamoring for. Bernie Sanders stands in defense of the common American, and speaks to an anger common to both progressives and the average Trump supporter. America is demanding democracy, and the groundswell of support for Bernie Sanders is how we move towards reclaiming it. Once we have a government accountable to Americans again, we can re-engage on the points we disagree upon. What is the point in arguing if our voices aren’t even heard in the first place? While Donald Trump has channeled the anger and frustration of the disaffected into a frothy rage, Bernie has kept a positive message of the future we can share in – a future that includes all of us. I believe in personal responsibility, democracy, self-determination, capitalism and the creation of the greatest society on this planet. I firmly believe that electing Bernie Sanders is the conservative thing to do.

My name is Bill Norman. I’m a life-long conservative and I support Bernie Sanders.
(http://brokeassstuart.com/blog/2016/02/15/im-a-conservative-who-supports-bernie-sanders-heres-why/)

An interesting read if you have the time.

NoBowie
17th February 16, 04:56 PM
Bernie doesn't believe in capitalism. Also, his proposed increased tax rates just happen to start right below what I should be bringing home next year.

I work harder, I sacrifice, and I make less than before?

Fuck him.

It's not like I am living some super extreme or opulent lifestyle.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
17th February 16, 05:04 PM
The article is more about bringing back an accountable political system & that the author thinks that Bernie is the only candiate willing to do this.

NoBowie
17th February 16, 05:17 PM
Bernie is accountable to his socialist ideals.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
17th February 16, 05:24 PM
Sure but as far as I can see he's the only one advocating a return to actual representative democracy as opposed to the Wall Street run government you currently have.

NoBowie
17th February 16, 05:29 PM
One rose sitting among a bunch of other shit he wants that is heinous, sure.

http://i.imgur.com/yaC1uxy.gif

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
17th February 16, 05:52 PM
Hey cymbals for the old & infirm is a solid policy!!

NoBowie
17th February 16, 05:56 PM
Hey cymbals for the old & infirm is a solid policy!!

Well, yes, it will undoubtedly improve hand / eye coordination, mental function, and reduce arthritis symptoms, but Hillary's "gong for every child" program can't be discounted.

Üser Friendly
18th February 16, 01:24 AM
I'm still sore Obama never delivered on triangles for every person of colour!

Üser Friendly
18th February 16, 01:29 AM
My name is Bill Norman. I’m a life-long conservative and I support Bernie Sanders.
(http://brokeassstuart.com/blog/2016/02/15/im-a-conservative-who-supports-bernie-sanders-heres-why/)

An interesting read if you have the time.

As much as I want Bernie to be the white knight who brings justice back to the world, this is just a reworking of the Obama 'yes we can' rhetoric

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
18th February 16, 04:18 AM
Yeah good point.

Üser Friendly
18th February 16, 06:53 AM
Thanks

it's my first one

NoBowie
18th February 16, 06:56 AM
it's my first one

http://i.imgur.com/WkXr0d0.gif

Feryk
18th February 16, 11:43 AM
If Bernie is really able to deliver on fixing the electoral system, eliminating SuperPACs and limiting corporate donations, how much socialism would you be willing to tolerate in order to have that?

Üser Friendly
18th February 16, 11:48 AM
How deep would you take Socialism in the bottom if it made you even richer?

NoBowie
18th February 16, 11:51 AM
If Bernie is really able to deliver on fixing the electoral system, eliminating SuperPACs and limiting corporate donations, how much socialism would you be willing to tolerate in order to have that?

Zero.

There are too many freeloaders / freeloader supporters in the voting public. We need some corporate interests to balance it out.

I am all for capitalism. I never said anything about what degree of democracy I am for.

MerkinMuffly
18th February 16, 10:03 PM
There are too many freeloaders / freeloader supporters in the voting public, but enough about Reagan.

Syntactical Disruptorize
18th February 16, 11:45 PM
Feryk, you're way too intelligent and reasonable to be arguing with goddamn Doofa. Feel free to continue if it amuses you, but actually educating him seems unlikely.

Üser Friendly
19th February 16, 01:56 AM
Change Cy's name to 'lil miss passive aggressive' plse thx

NoBowie
19th February 16, 08:37 AM
Hmm. I find him to be one of the more genuinely agressive folks.

In a good way.

Not much passivity there, in any aspect of his life, tadpole farmer. Pick a better insult. Call him a slut.

Pie of Hate
19th February 16, 09:59 AM
Call him "A tight arsed virgin"; see what happens.

Feryk
19th February 16, 11:19 AM
Feryk, you're way too intelligent and reasonable to be arguing with goddamn Doofa. Feel free to continue if it amuses you, but actually educating him seems unlikely.

Every once in awhile I have to put my hand on the element to remind myself it's hot. Plus, he's more fun than resolve.

Feryk
19th February 16, 11:20 AM
Call him "A tight arsed virgin"; see what happens.

I'll go with a snort of derision followed by vivisection.

Pie of Hate
19th February 16, 01:21 PM
Not ice cream sundaes then?

Üser Friendly
19th February 16, 02:40 PM
I'll call him anything I darn well please!

Feryk
19th February 16, 05:07 PM
Keep it up, and I could see him having a chicken named Alex running around his yard. If I remember correctly, Chuck likes to relax with a shotgun in his hands. I don't see that ending well for Alex McChicken.

Syntactical Disruptorize
19th February 16, 11:33 PM
Pick a better insult. Call him a slut.
That's an insult?

Syntactical Disruptorize
19th February 16, 11:35 PM
Call him "A tight arsed virgin"; see what happens.
Hmm, that's close. How about "fuckless tease"? That'd be insulting. Also false, but certainly against my values.

Pie of Hate
20th February 16, 02:39 AM
My mission for next week is to work "fuckless tease" into a conversation.

NoBowie
20th February 16, 08:24 AM
That's an insult?

Well, not to enlightened folks, but doof is a prude.

Syntactical Disruptorize
20th February 16, 10:09 AM
Well, not to enlightened folks, but doof is a prude.
Bierce noted that it was strange that we give the same name to a woman's lack of inclination and a man's lack of opportunity.

MerkinMuffly
20th February 16, 11:29 AM
Promiscuous men are studs and promiscuous women are sluts.

Üser Friendly
20th February 16, 01:58 PM
Promiscuous goats are hard to come by

Syntactical Disruptorize
20th February 16, 05:13 PM
Promiscuous goats are hard to come by

I bet it's easier for guys who aren't tossing a hot dog down a hallway.

Üser Friendly
22nd February 16, 03:40 AM
I don't gamble

It's a mugs game

Syntactical Disruptorize
23rd February 16, 12:31 AM
Keep it up, and I could see him having a chicken named Alex running around his yard. If I remember correctly, Chuck likes to relax with a shotgun in his hands. I don't see that ending well for Alex McChicken.
I'm amused, but really that business of naming a pig after me and then killing it made me wonder if he also had a RealDoll of me with the eye paint scratched out. I mean, pig raising is basically his job, and he made his obsession with Reese and me part of that. I don't recall naming any variables after him. It's a one way obsession.

Üser Friendly
23rd February 16, 01:35 AM
How sweet of you to remember

But everyone gets a pig named after them

You're not special Cy

In fact Snake will be meeting his maker on Saturday

Syntactical Disruptorize
23rd February 16, 01:59 AM
How sweet of you to remember

But everyone gets a pig named after them

You're not special Cy

In fact Snake will be meeting his maker on Saturday

I'm not arguing that I'm the only object of your inappropriate obsession. The forum in general is. We just don't care about you.

Pie of Hate
23rd February 16, 04:18 AM
https://image.spreadshirtmedia.net/image-server/v1/products/119096561/views/1,width=378,height=378,appearanceId=1,version=1396 778786/Gamblers-Anonymous---I-bet-I-can-quit-Bottles---Mugs.png

Üser Friendly
23rd February 16, 07:30 AM
I'm not arguing that I'm the only object of your inappropriate obsession. The forum in general is. We just don't care about you.

Me thinks the lady doth protest, too much

Üser Friendly
24th February 16, 12:17 PM
it made me wonder if he also had a RealDoll of me with the eye paint scratched out.

well I did look for one, and this was the closest i could find

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6b/fd/2d/6bfd2ddfa1f4e6150b364f7cea593960.jpg

MerkinMuffly
24th February 16, 12:33 PM
Why don't you go back to milking the bull and leave the posting of retarded memes to resolve.

Üser Friendly
24th February 16, 03:42 PM
Are you saying that does not resemble Simple Cy-mon?

Feryk
25th February 16, 01:29 PM
Let's just say that it did. For him to look like that and still have the sex life he has only makes you more inadequate.

Üser Friendly
25th February 16, 04:22 PM
You'd think he'd be a bit more cheerful then

Feryk
25th February 16, 05:05 PM
Are you kidding? Between the chafing and the protein shakes necessary to keep his stamina up, he has no time to suffer foolishness.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
25th February 16, 05:58 PM
You're kinda obsessed with Chucks sex life Ferky. The Old Lady not giving out any more?

Pie of Hate
25th February 16, 06:12 PM
The grass is always greener and all that.

Feryk
25th February 16, 09:05 PM
You're kinda obsessed with Chucks sex life Ferky. The Old Lady not giving out any more?

Not obsessed, impressed. If I had not married, I would like to think I would have gone a similar direction.

Syntactical Disruptorize
26th February 16, 12:19 AM
I'd say it was Doofa who has the obsession.

Üser Friendly
26th February 16, 01:37 AM
I'm not obsessed with Feryk

I'm obsessed with Cake

Cream Cake, coffee Cake, chocolate Cake

all kinds of cake

Pie of Hate
26th February 16, 04:04 AM
Do me a favour and edit your own post and change "cake" to "cock". I can't be bothered.

Üser Friendly
26th February 16, 07:00 AM
You don't mean that

Pie of Hate
26th February 16, 07:03 AM
I do. I really can't be bothered.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th February 16, 07:19 AM
I would like to think I would have gone a similar direction.

You're gay? No wonder the Old Lady isnt getting any.

Pie of Hate
26th February 16, 07:21 AM
You're gay?

He's not gay, he just helps them out when they're busy.

Üser Friendly
26th February 16, 07:22 AM
Watch out Ferky

The Dr is hot for you

resolve
26th February 16, 08:35 AM
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12744364_946707588716624_5941466752295497119_n.jpg ?oh=a4b4ea6ad0c4163563347af303d1d0a1&oe=576793B3

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th February 16, 09:11 AM
Quick resolve to the Retardis....

-aR-eM2Suec

Feryk
26th February 16, 11:21 AM
You're gay? No wonder the Old Lady isnt getting any.

Not gay. Never have been attracted to another man. But having different partners that I see individually on different days, who occasionally all get together for fun?

Tell me you wouldn't have done that when single. If you could have.

Feryk
26th February 16, 11:23 AM
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12744364_946707588716624_5941466752295497119_n.jpg ?oh=a4b4ea6ad0c4163563347af303d1d0a1&oe=576793B3

Gee, that sounds like he wants to spend a lot of your money. But that's okay. Obamanomics says he can just print whatever he needs.

Üser Friendly
26th February 16, 12:30 PM
he has a trust worthy smile, so I'll vote for him

MerkinMuffly
26th February 16, 02:31 PM
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12744364_946707588716624_5941466752295497119_n.jpg ?oh=a4b4ea6ad0c4163563347af303d1d0a1&oe=576793B3

Thanks resolve! You've given me the information I need to cast my vote.

Feryk
26th February 16, 04:20 PM
Well, if you hold to your word and vote to cancel resolve's vote, you better get used to Hilary. 'Cuz resolve strikes me as a Cruz kind of guy.

MerkinMuffly
26th February 16, 04:25 PM
Especially when he pulls into truck stops.

NoBowie
15th March 16, 01:53 PM
Russian chess master Garry Kasparov’s harsh critiques of Bernie Sanders and socialism:

"Socialism sounds great in speech soundbites and on Facebook, but please keep it there," he wrote in a Facebook post that went viral. "In practice, it corrodes not only the economy but the human spirit itself, and the ambition and achievement that made modern capitalism possible and brought billions of people out of poverty. Talking about Socialism is a huge luxury, a luxury that was paid for by the successes of capitalism."

"Income inequality is a huge problem, absolutely," he added. "But the idea that the solution is more government, more regulation, more debt, and less risk is dangerously absurd."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/15/russian-chess-master-garry-kasparovs-harsh-critiques-of-bernie-sanders-and-socialism/

MerkinMuffly
15th March 16, 09:45 PM
Let's all vote for the crypto-nazi instead.

Üser Friendly
16th March 16, 01:57 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/15/15/2A8CD8EC00000578-3162339-The_sauna_has_been_installed_at_Sandhorn_ya_Bod_No rthern_Norway_-a-95_1436971296257.jpg

These Norwegians look pretty happy about Socialism

Feryk
16th March 16, 10:16 AM
The problem in your election is that there is no middle ground.

You have elitists on both sides, one of whom is the ultimate Washington insider, the other of whom is a xenophobic bombastic idiot. Bernie is done, no superdelegates will vote for him, so even if he wins every state from here, he will lose.

Robot Jesus
16th March 16, 10:37 AM
It's mathematically possible to beat Clinton in elected delegates, and if he somehow pulled that off the superdelegates would back him, but he should bow out now. He had a good run and I hope it has a positive effect on the american left, this could be remembered as the year that the spark hit tinder.

Pie of Hate
16th March 16, 11:44 AM
https://twitter.com/TheBardockObama/status/709515829335826432

Üser Friendly
16th March 16, 03:57 PM
Doesn't Bernie only have to sway the electoral collages?

Robot Jesus
16th March 16, 04:07 PM
in theory, but in the same way the queen could refuse to give royal assent to all commonwealth laws; it would end the system.

Üser Friendly
16th March 16, 04:24 PM
I though Manbearpig guy won Florida by public vote but the EC voted for Bush?

Robot Jesus
16th March 16, 05:22 PM
IIRC the Supreme court ruled that A: the following ruling will not set precedence and B: in this one and only case, in which the numbers are so close and in dispute, we're going to let the governor of the state pick which electoral college members will be selected;W's big bro specifically. Again, to be clear this does not count for future cases.


nothing fishy about that.


Although that's neither here nor there because the primaries are an internal party matter, for the most part. Bernie could try to sway delegates, but that's just not how the system works anymore.

NoBowie
16th March 16, 11:31 PM
http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/sanders-wrong-way-trade-policy-bad-for-washington-businesses-workers/

MerkinMuffly
17th March 16, 10:22 AM
http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/sanders-wrong-way-trade-policy-bad-for-washington-businesses-workers/

http://reason.com/archives/2016/03/10/bernie-sanders-is-right-to-trash-the-ex

NoBowie
17th March 16, 10:48 AM
Plane-is envy ^^

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
22nd March 16, 02:38 PM
fxzb2mU9KII

NoBowie
8th April 16, 03:14 PM
http://i.imgur.com/l9cKyOu.jpg

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th April 16, 05:43 AM
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12963628_952252158214944_5098925615082336391_n.jpg ?oh=8fd7cf419ba2a74961b7ea4c1511da1d&oe=577E8FE2

Syntactical Disruptorize
9th April 16, 07:34 AM
"O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion..."

Sorry, Doc, NoB wins this one.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th April 16, 07:54 AM
damn it

Pie of Hate
11th April 16, 05:15 AM
http://img.ifcdn.com/images/03e9d0272e34e00896424569ebf18d0c529bfcb63049a9804d 6a7032557a3e00_1.jpg

NoBowie
11th April 16, 10:53 AM
http://i.imgur.com/feq0Zx3.jpg

Feryk
11th April 16, 02:12 PM
Tell your eldest daughter to get out of the Italian's bathtub.

NoBowie
12th April 16, 10:24 AM
http://i.imgur.com/gGEY5Cp.jpg

Feryk
12th April 16, 03:09 PM
I can absolutely become better by wearing nothing!

Syntactical Disruptorize
13th April 16, 10:02 AM
I can absolutely become better by wearing nothing!
You'd be one of the few.

Feryk
13th April 16, 10:47 AM
Believe me, once the kids move outta the house - this guy's gonna be naked all the time.

Syntactical Disruptorize
13th April 16, 11:08 AM
Believe me, once the kids move outta the house - this guy's gonna be naked all the time.

Doesn't make it better.

Feryk
13th April 16, 12:45 PM
Well, you've got me there. If I'm going to do that, some manscaping is in order. And a new fitness regime.

Robot Jesus
15th April 16, 11:47 AM
I only manscape my ass, prevents heat rash.



anyway, so this debate..

Any Hilary supporter here?

Care to respond to how she dealt with the transcript question last night?