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resolve
29th November 14, 06:58 PM
II Kings 2:23-24

This verse is rendered quite differently among the english translations, but you all will know it as the verse where Elisha curses some youths and 2 she-bears come out and slay 42 of them after they insult him. But I want to take a closer look at the actual Hebrew it was originally recorded in, the context of the verse, and what was really going on since it has stirred up sooo much controversy among these sites as well as all over social media. IE: It's become an atheist meme for the lulz so I decided to do a little study on it and I'm sharing it with you.


From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. ‘Go on up, you baldhead!’ they said. ‘Go on up, you baldhead!’ He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

So first the context:

Elijah had just been taken up in chariots of fire to heaven (IE: God took him from the earth, he died) before this. Elisha, his protégé, who becomes the prophet of God to Israel is on his way to Bethel, the center of Israel's great apostasy by worshiping false gods (again...). People had heard about Elijah ascending to heaven, and were expecting Elisha to continue his ministry of prophecy.

Now. Out of the city of Bethel comes a gang of "youths". This is where the great controversy and contention comes from. For it was in the King James Version the word is translated as "little children".

Now more context:

In the Biblical ages you were not considered a true adult until you were in your 30s, and were numbered among the

יְלָדִים

(translated as "lads") and coincidentally this word is also used in this passage at the end. Certain vocations like priests couldn't even start the job until age 33.

So who are these "youths", these "little children" as translated by the King James?

The Hebrew phrase translated as youths or little children is

נְעָרִים קְטַנִּים

ne‘urîm qeţannîm

Which is used all over the Bible to describe people between twelve and thirty (including Isaac at twenty when Abraham was going to sacrifice him but he was spared, the men of the Israelite army, Joseph when he was specifically written down as seventeen years of age in Genesis 37:2, David when he was old enough to serve as a shepherd and kill bears and eventually Goliath, Solomon when he ascends to the throne, et cetera).

So the correct translation of the phrase is "young men" or "youths", and most likely meaning teens/young adults.

So we have a group of young men, aged ~12-30 accosting the prophet Elisha on his mission to the city of Bethel. How large is the group? Well it says that 42 of them were "torn" by the bears. That means those are just the ones who were caught by the bears. The fact that FORTY TWO were caught by bears means that it was probably a crowd of more than 42 young men accosting Elisha, tightly packed enough that that many of them were caught by the bears as panic probably broke out. So I would say safely that a pretty huge gang of young men had come to jeer at him. That's my assumption, but it seems to make the most sense.

But what were they jeering about that was so offensive for Elisha to curse the youths and God to send the bears?

Well there's two parts. There is:

עֲלֵה

Which means "ascend" (translated as "go up").

It is a common verb used in the psalms encompassing God's ascension, sometimes is used as 'offering', and the question: "who shall ascend to the hill of the Lord?" But it is used four times in this verse, which judging by the context we discovered by the event of Elijah's ascension, we can understand that they were mocking him... ie: they were basically telling him to follow Elijah and GTFO of their town, by dying. Remember, this city had already abandoned the worship of YHWH and fallen into apostasy. It was nothing for them to go out and jeer at someone serving God in a derisive manner.

In other words, they are stating they want Elisha gone; and since Elijah had gone on to the “next world,” the implication is they wanted Elisha dead.

Then there's:

קֵרֵחַ

Which means "disgraced with baldness" (translated as 'baldy').

Now this insult carries a few veiled meanings in ancient Israel and was used even against people with full heads of hair!

Prophets and priests who left their holy duties shaved their heads as it was forbidden for them to do so. To say this to the only extant prophet left in Israel was especially derogatory.

It also could have inferred the practice of lepers having to shave their heads or having the hair fall out as a consequence of the disease and was viewed as a disgrace... basically suggesting that Elisha was unclean and from what we saw earlier of the insult with "go up" was entirely hostile.


TL;DR:

Elisha was on his way to deliver prophecy to the apostate city of Bethel when he was suddenly surrounded by a very great number of young thugs aged 12-30 (but most likely teenagers/young 20's) who were creating a very tense situation calling for him to die and that he was unclean, jeering and mocking him. He turned to them and cursed them in the name of YHWH and bears appeared to disperse the crowd, tearing into 42 of them. "Elisha neither summoned the bears nor called for the youths’ deaths. He merely pronounced judgment on the demonstrators and God decided the form of the response."


After this event “The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy.” (II Chronicles 36:15-16). The people of Israel learned nothing and increased in their apostasy until eventually God lifted His covenantal protection of Israel and it was conquered by the Assyrians, including all of their legendary cruelty, in 722 BCE.



Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.


Sources:
(IDC about styles being the same, or format, just providing them as is)

* Jamieson, R., Fausset, A., & and Brown, D. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (electronic ed. 1997) (2 Ki 2:23). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
* Krummacher, Frederick W. Elisha, A Prophet For Our Times. (1993). Kregel Publications.
* Kaiser, Walter C. Hard Sayings of the Bible. (2010). IVP Academic; Reprint edition.
* The Holy Bible. Holman Christian Standard Bible. New International Version. King James Bible. New King James Version. English Standard Version. (Et cetera). http://www.biblehub.com.
* A Hebrew - English Bible According to the Masoretic Text and the JPS 1917 Edition. 2005. http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0.htm.
* Elisha and the Two Bears - Sufficiency Blog. 2009. http://stenagmois.blogspot.com/2009/08/bad-boy-bears.html.

nihilist
29th November 14, 07:07 PM
Translation: God is a shitdick.


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resolve
29th November 14, 07:11 PM
I am allergic to reading.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th November 14, 09:27 PM
Are you OK?

nihilist
29th November 14, 10:00 PM
But, all people have sinned against God and are worthy of death (Rom. 3:23 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom.%203.23); 6:23 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%206.23))

God = shitdick

nihilist
29th November 14, 10:15 PM
Elisha was on his way to deliver prophecy to the apostate city of Bethel when he was suddenly surrounded by a very great number of young thugs aged 12-30 (but most likely teenagers/young 20's) who were creating a very tense situation calling for him to die and that he was unclean, jeering and mocking him. He turned to them and cursed them in the name of YHWH and bears appeared to disperse the crowd, tearing into 42 of them. "Elisha neither summoned the bears nor called for the youths’ deaths. He merely pronounced judgment on the demonstrators and God decided the form of the response."


I took the liberty of marking the bullshit parts in red.
You will stop at nothing to make your murderous thug of a god look palatable.
It's disgusting.

Cullion
29th November 14, 10:36 PM
I think the difference between 'lads' and 'little children' is kind of hair-splitting here. The bigger picture is that this story is about somebody getting mocked for being bald, praying for vengence, and then his God sends angry bears to maul scores of people to death for talking shit to 'the chosen one'.

What a petty, bellicose sentiment to express in a parable.

This is a self-evidently crazy religion.

nihilist
29th November 14, 10:41 PM
Pick out the good parts of Christianity and live by them.
Do not attempt to justify the obvious evil in these morally bankrupt stories.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th November 14, 10:45 PM
Reese has prayed to be "mauled" by bears before.

nihilist
29th November 14, 10:50 PM
But the bears preferred to snake out Plisskin's drain so it never happened.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th November 14, 10:57 PM
But the bears preferred to snake out Plisskin's drain so it never happened.
They never made it off the Eastern Washington orange couch.

resolve
29th November 14, 11:28 PM
I think the difference between 'lads' and 'little children' is kind of hair-splitting here.

Maybe because both of them are terrible translations? Did you read the translations at all? If the word is used in many other verses describing who are known from other verses as 12 year olds to adults under 30 it's pretty self evident what it means. IE: Gangs of young men some teens some twenties accosting a lone traveling person on the road telling him to die and that he's unclean.

BTW, prophets in the OT wore head coverings, so they wouldn't know if he was bald or not by looking at him. Thus making the disparaging nature of calling a prophet bald evident.


The bigger picture is that this story is about somebody getting mocked for being bald

Wrong. Pls read.


praying for vengence,

Wrong. Please read. He cursed them before God. The prophets were given authority to bless and curse by God. If you can read the situation at all from the contextual clues and the words used in the passage you can see he was being pretty aggressively waylaid from the mission of giving the prophecy of repentance to Bethel by a large gang.


God sends angry bears to maul scores of people to death for talking shit to 'the chosen one'.

Says they were "torn" probably meaning scratched/clawed. The OT doesn't skimp on death, so why just say "torn" and leave it at that here? Either way in the Old Testament you didn't mess with things that were Holy, period.

In the New Testament there is Grace for all of that, bought by Christ's sacrifice opening the doors of repentance to all so all have the chance to be holy, until judgment.

resolve
29th November 14, 11:30 PM
But, all people have sinned against God and are worthy of death (Rom. 3:23 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom.%203.23); 6:23 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%206.23))

God = shitdick


Pick out the good parts of Christianity and live by them.
Do not attempt to justify the obvious evil in these morally bankrupt stories.


It must be terribly lonely, being the holiest person in all the world huh Reese?

nihilist
29th November 14, 11:39 PM
Holiness is just a made-up thing.
I'm definitely more moral than either you or your god.

resolve
29th November 14, 11:54 PM
Why does that read like empty bravado?

nihilist
30th November 14, 12:08 AM
Mainly because your indoctrination prevents you seeing your barbaric death cult objectively.

resolve
30th November 14, 01:36 AM
I forgive you for being such a curmudgeonly jerk all the time.

I'm working on it more. But God loves you.

nihilist
30th November 14, 03:22 AM
Perhaps he can send some bears to tell me just how much.


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Cullion
30th November 14, 07:49 AM
Maybe because both of them are terrible translations? Did you read the translations at all? If the word is used in many other verses describing who are known from other verses as 12 year olds to adults under 30 it's pretty self evident what it means. IE: Gangs of young men some teens some twenties accosting a lone traveling person on the road telling him to die and that he's unclean.

They don't tell him to die, that's your contrived interpretation. And they don't physically accost him.



BTW, prophets in the OT wore head coverings

There's none mentioned here, nobody wears a hat all the time.



so they wouldn't know if he was bald or not by looking at him. Thus making the disparaging nature of calling a prophet bald evident.

This logic is tortured.




Wrong. Please read. He cursed them before God. The prophets were given authority to bless and curse by God. If you can read the situation at all from the contextual clues and the words used in the passage you can see he was being pretty aggressively waylaid from the mission of giving the prophecy of repentance to Bethel by a large gang.

Some young men verbally insulted him so he got his God to kill them. That's not reasonable or moral under any circumstances. Yahweh is acting in an evil manner here.



Says they were "torn" probably meaning scratched/clawed. The OT doesn't skimp on death, so why just say "torn" and leave it at that here? Either way in the Old Testament you didn't mess with things that were Holy, period.

And that's why it's a cruel, inhumane religion.



In the New Testament there is Grace for all of that, bought by Christ's sacrifice opening the doors of repentance to all so all have the chance to be holy, until judgment.

The New Testament brings a touch of hellenistic humanism and universalism to a terrifying tribal religion that demanded the blood of the disobedient, as described above. If this God really exists, it sounds more like a powerful demon, to be honest.

Spade: The Real Snake
30th November 14, 08:47 AM
Josh, are you losing your grip on sanity?
Each post makes you seem further and further gone.

Harpy
30th November 14, 12:09 PM
1. Snake is upset that even by resolve's definition he is no longer a young man.

2. What if the bears just lived there and got pissed off by all the noise those wankers were making?

Spade: The Real Snake
30th November 14, 12:43 PM
There is a certain freedom, attained by powerful and attractive men of a certain age, that allows him to fish from every point of the legal age pool.

Üser Friendly
30th November 14, 12:47 PM
yes

Üser Friendly
30th November 14, 12:50 PM
Christians would have a lot easier time if they just left the OT to the jewz and the islamists

How can anyone hope to argue the morality of genocide, infanticide or the oppression of women?

nihilist
30th November 14, 02:02 PM
Josh hopes to argue morality of those things all the time but hasn't, to date, come up with a single argument that isn't the "God is just God" platitude.


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Spade: The Real Snake
30th November 14, 02:12 PM
You can't have Creationism without the Old Testament


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Cullion
30th November 14, 02:26 PM
You can't have Creationism without the Old Testament

Of course you can. you just need a little imagination.

resolve
30th November 14, 02:34 PM
I refuse to believe in cultural context or proper translation until it's presented in front of me in plain English, harumph!

nihilist
30th November 14, 02:36 PM
Now that resolve has wasted all this time failing to address the moral bankruptcy of his chosen celestial dictator, i'd like to remind everyone that there's not a single shred of evidence for a soul that godboy can come up with so far.
Way to go, loser.


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resolve
30th November 14, 02:55 PM
I don't believe that a deity should have the power of life and death or the omniscience to use it wisely, that is because any deity I would ever choose to believe in is a reflection of my own self and my own desires. God is a mirror to me!

nihilist
30th November 14, 03:49 PM
God was certainly created in man's image, albeit primitive man.
I'm not sure why a reasonable person would follow such an obvious monster.
Perhaps you were abused as a child.


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nihilist
30th November 14, 03:51 PM
Please post pics of both sides of your head.
I want to check for signs of coathanger damage.


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NoBowie
30th November 14, 03:55 PM
I am convinced that if Resolve took anti-psychotics his conversations with 'God' would stop.

Cullion
30th November 14, 04:00 PM
God was certainly created in man's image, albeit primitive man.
I'm not sure why a reasonable person would follow such an obvious monster.
Perhaps you were abused as a child.

Sent from my mobile thingy.

IIRC you actually avoided having a Christian upbringing. In the main, liberal western christians just teach their children the humane parts of the new testament and just don't mention the difficult stories.

When people get towards adulthood, if they stay in the faith they might engage somewhat with the harsher, more difficult to explain, material and just try to rationalise it, like Josh is doing now.

The 'Just try and live the good bits' advice you gave earlier is pretty much the default position of most practicing mainstream Christians you'd meet in most of western Europe.

nihilist
30th November 14, 04:04 PM
Which I don't have a problem with provided they aren't actively suppressing the freedom of other citizens.


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nihilist
30th November 14, 04:09 PM
The threat of hell is what keeps the sheeple from abandoning what has been drilled into their head from birth.


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Cullion
30th November 14, 04:26 PM
The threat of hell is what keeps the sheeple from abandoning what has been drilled into their head from birth.


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Hmm, sometimes. Not all Christians are primarily motivated by fear.

nihilist
30th November 14, 04:48 PM
Hmm, sometimes. Not all Christians are primarily motivated by fear.
Fear of eternal punishment is the linchpin which holds the believer to the wagon of Christianity. I can't see how it's possible to love somebody you're scared of.

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Cullion
30th November 14, 04:56 PM
Fear of eternal punishment is the linchpin which holds the believer to the wagon of Christianity.

No, some Christians do it because they love God, or because they find the rituals comforting, or because it's just what everybody in their family does and their whole social life revolves around it. The subject of hell isn't something many of them spend much time thinking about, and when it comes to the subject of avoiding pleasurable sin it's as much about social disapproval as it is about the fear of being sent to hell for most Christians.

Think about it: Lots of Christians fornicate and do things that the Bible tells them is wrong, but they generally do it in secret: They're not hiding their encounter with the hooker/choir boy/dog from God, they're hiding it from the people they go to Church with.

nihilist
30th November 14, 05:23 PM
Christianity offers the loophole of repentance for sin so your argument doesn't quite convince.


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nihilist
30th November 14, 05:26 PM
Ask resolve about his fear of hell.


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resolve
30th November 14, 07:56 PM
If you are truly headed for hell, I hope you will trip over me on your way. If you choose to dive headfirst I will be grasping for your ankles.

nihilist
30th November 14, 08:03 PM
The hell myth was slowly developed by the church.

nihilist
30th November 14, 08:13 PM
http://30ce.com/developmentofhell.htm

http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html

Harpy
30th November 14, 08:23 PM
If you are truly headed for hell, I hope you will trip over me on your way. If you choose to dive headfirst I will be grasping for your ankles.

Those are not his ankles...

Spade: The Real Snake
30th November 14, 08:29 PM
He's still going in headfirst


Sent by telekinesis via Cerebro

Spade: The Real Snake
30th November 14, 08:30 PM
WTF IS IT WITH YOU AND THE GHEYSEX?????


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resolve
30th November 14, 09:14 PM
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1459069_10154352290576515_6470182883930538953_n.jp g?oh=5b79f8d8aa6252717a43f6b9268bbee7&oe=5500CE01

resolve
30th November 14, 09:16 PM
The hell myth was slowly developed by the church.

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Jesus in Matthew 10:28

nihilist
30th November 14, 11:57 PM
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Jesus in Matthew 10:28

In the New Testament canon, Yeshua referred to "Gehenna (http://30ce.com/jesusonhell.htm)," the valley of Hinnom, where garbage burned continually, corpses were sometimes deposited, and in earlier times, people had been sacrificed. He only referred to it to illustrate his lessons about spiritual growth and the Earthly realm--that the earthly body was meaningless and would be thrown on the garbage dump. Some suggest he was warning the entire Jewish nation that it must turn away from its Earthly focus and reform by being more concerned with spiritual growth and the inner person, and if it didn't, the Jews would be destroyed in fire. He was right, of course. Jerusalem and the temple were torched in 70 CE.
However, he didn't refer to a hell as everlasting torment for people who didn't swear allegiance to him. By the time of the first English translations of the New Testament, the hell myth had been so well rooted in church tradition that where the translators saw "Gehenna," they simply inserted "hell" as the translation. That led to the misconception about hell being in the New Testament and in Yeshua's teaching.

resolve
1st December 14, 02:09 AM
the One who can destroy both soul and body

nihilist
1st December 14, 02:18 AM
A soul cannot be destroyed then tortured eternally.




FAIL

nihilist
1st December 14, 02:43 AM
WDOZ1JxtHT4

nihilist
1st December 14, 02:46 AM
Part 2 aU0tSVSX-XE

nihilist
1st December 14, 02:50 AM
"Eternal" Punishment (Matthew 25:46) Is NOT Found In The Greek New Testament. By Tony Nungesser and Gary Amirault
The entire concept of eternal or everlasting punishment hinges primarily on a single verse of Scripture-- Matthew 25:46. This is the only place in the entire Bible where we find these two words together AND only in some Bibles. There are over a dozen English translations which do NOT contain the concept of "eternal punishment" on ANY of their pages, NOR the pagan concept of Hell.
The Greek form for "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 is ”kolasin aionion." Kolasin is a noun in the accusative form, singular voice, feminine gender and means "punishment, chastening, correction, to cut-off as in pruning a tree to bare more fruit." "Aionion" is the adjective form of "aion," in the singular form and means "pertaining to an eon or age, an indeterminate period of time." (Note: the two words in many, not all translations become reversed when bringing the Greek into English, that is, "kolasin aionion" literally punishment everlasting is reversed to everlasting punishment so as to make better sense in English.)
"Aionion," as shown above, is the singular form of the adjective of the Greek noun "aion." Many people unfamiliar with the Greek do not realize that the endings of the same word change (inflection) to indicate its mood, case, gender, etc. Therefore, "aionion" may appear with different endings. "Aionion, aioniou, aionios," for example, are all different inflections of the adjective form of the noun "aion."
The noun "aion" in Greek literature has always meant "an indeterminate period of time. It could be as short as the time Jonah spent in the belly of a fish (three days or nights even though the KJV has him in the "belly of Hell" "forever," obviously a mistranslation; see Jonah 2:2, 2:6.), the length of a man's life, or as long as an age.
The Bible speaks of at least 5 "aions" and perhaps many more. If there were "aions" in the past, then aions must have an end. The New Testament writers spoke of "the present wicked aion" which ended during that very generation. Obviously, it was followed by another "aion"-- the "aion" in which we presently live. If there are "aions" to come, it must mean that this one we live in will also end.
There is a verse which says "the consummation of the aions" proving that each "aion" ends. So how can they be eternal?
There is "the coming eon" (Matt.10:30, Luke 18:30
There is "the present wicked eon" (Gal.1:4)
There is "the oncoming eons (future)(Eph.2:7)
There is "the conclusion of the eon (present) (Mt.13:39,40)
There is "the secret concealed from the eons (past) (Eph.3:9)
Plainly, the Greek word "aion" transliterated "eon" cannot mean "eternal." A study into the Greek of the Biblical period and before will bear this out.
"Aionion" is the adjective of the noun "aion."
Since grammar rules mandate an adjective CANNOT take on a greater force than its noun form, it is evident that "aionion" in any of its adjective forms (ios, ou, on) CANNOT possible mean "everlasting" or anything remotely indicating eternity or unending time.
For example, "hourly" cannot mean "pertaining to days, weeks, months, or years. The word MUST mean "pertaining to an hour." Therefore, "aionion," the adjective form of the noun "aion" which clearly means a period of indeterminate TIME, CANNOT mean, "forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, eternity, etc." or other words which connote timelessness or unending ages.
Therefore, those many Bibles which do NOT contain the teaching of everlasting punishment or Hell are true to the original languages of Greek and Hebrew. Those which teach everlasting punishment or Hell are false. Scholars are just as easily subjected to the "traditions of the elders" as the rest of us. It's time to let the original Greek and Hebrew languages of the Bible break down the traditions of men.
Here is a list of Bibles which have taken major steps towards correcting many of the corruptions found in the King James Bible, NIV, NASB, NRSV, Amplified, as well as other leading selling Bibles:
Some of them are published by leading Evangelical Christian publishers like Baker Book House, Kregal and Eerdman's Publishing. Here's a partial list of some English Bible translations that do NOT contain Hell nor the concept of everlasting punishment: Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (Kregal Publishers), Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (Baker Book House Publishers; Robert Young is author of the famous Young's Concordance), Concordant Literal Translation of the N.T. (Concordant Publishing Concern), Scarlet's New Testament (Nathaniel Scarlett, 1798), The New Testament (Abner Kneeland, 1823) Emphatic Diaglott (Greek/English Interlinear), The New Covenant (J.W. Hanson, 1884), New Testament in Modern Speech (Weymouth, 1910), The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976), The Twentieth Century New Testament (1900), The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed (James L. Tomanek)1958), The Western New Testament (1926), The New Testament, a Translation (Rev. Edgar Lewis Clementson, 1938), The People's New Testament (Arthur Overbury), The New Testament, A New Translation based upon the Oldest Manuscripts (Johannes Greber, 1980) Jonathan Mitchell New Testament (2009) Far Above All New Testament (2009).
There are other translations like the Companion Bible King James Version, American Standard Version (1901), the Newberry Reference Bible (Still published by Kregal Publications), and the Riverside New Testament by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible.

nihilist
1st December 14, 02:55 AM
So, in conclusion, your dreams of an eternal place of everlasting torment:


:FAIL:

nihilist
1st December 14, 03:14 AM
Think of all the millions of children the church has abused with these lies of torture.

And you are part of it, Josh.

What does it feel like to be an evil monster?

I wonder.

Cullion
1st December 14, 02:07 PM
Christianity offers the loophole of repentance for sin so your argument doesn't quite convince.


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That being the case, neither does your argument about them all being terrified of hell. This would be a stalemate, but I have the advantage of inside knowledge having been raised a Christian. Do you yield, Sir? or do I have to end your miserable life ?

nihilist
1st December 14, 04:06 PM
It's not a stalemate at all.


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NoBowie
1st December 14, 07:14 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Xu8k0iy.jpg

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
2nd December 14, 06:59 AM
You should have listened to Marcion resolve, then we wouldn't have this stupid thread & you wouldn't appear in it as a desperate dellusionist.

nihilist
2nd December 14, 10:41 AM
I'd like everyone to notice how resolve has scampered away like the little bitch he is, which is what he does every time he gets schooled.


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Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
2nd December 14, 11:14 AM
No no that was our Lord & Saviour that rid of the desperate one...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10453436_886407374727600_4102782708995674615_n.jpg ?oh=929969c9c4d1d7f059c258c095e8c038&oe=54FE0A9C&__gda__=1426901750_76f614bfff5b7f3400038d3e0b0b0ed 1

Praise be!!

Harpy
2nd December 14, 02:15 PM
Godfukkr - resolve is a young man and has got to hustle to earn a living. He always comes back unlike the many who have run off from this site. So your little 'conclusion' only serves to delude you. You will be Saved!

Üser Friendly
2nd December 14, 02:23 PM
I'd like everyone to notice how resolve has scampered away like the little bitch he is, which is HAWT!


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nihilist
2nd December 14, 02:24 PM
Godfukkr - resolve is a young man and has got to hustle to earn a living. He always comes back unlike the many who have run off from this site. So your little 'conclusion' only serves to delude you. You will be Saved!

He will come back but won't rebut the case I laid out for hell being a contrived method of control.


Sent from my mobile thingy.

Spade: The Real Snake
2nd December 14, 03:09 PM
Godfukkr - resolve is a young man .....
Not so much, anymore....

resolve
2nd December 14, 10:00 PM
Gallop on reese.

nihilist
2nd December 14, 11:56 PM
I got nuthin.

If I were God and I wanted intelligent, rational, or otherwise sane people to roast in hell, I'd send a bunch of intellectual rejects like Josh to argue my case for me.

Spade: The Real Snake
3rd December 14, 07:58 AM
http://img.brainjet.com/slides/4/1/8/3/6/0/4183604668/dc3b2b24818ee71b4ce697d7ec38de530dec55df.jpeg

Feryk
3rd December 14, 01:02 PM
I don't suppose anyone brought up the idea that brown bears don't hang out in packs?

NoBowie
3rd December 14, 01:16 PM
I don't suppose anyone brought up the idea that brown bears don't hang out in packs?

It's a miracle, just like the lemming pigs (http://biblehub.com/mark/5-13.htm)!

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
3rd December 14, 02:04 PM
OMG (TM Lemming Lovers (anon.)) its like Disney before Disney!! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Wilderness_%28film%29)

Üser Friendly
3rd December 14, 02:14 PM
I don't think two counts as a pack

I think the appropriate term is a pair, or brace

Feryk
4th December 14, 01:13 AM
Actual Religion question: Since Jesus died for our sins, does that include Original Sin? And if so, why haven't we been allowed back in the Garden of Eden?

I blame Reese, personally.

resolve
4th December 14, 01:26 AM
Actual Religion question: Since Jesus died for our sins, does that include Original Sin? And if so, why haven't we been allowed back in the Garden of Eden?

God is going to remake the heavens and the earth into perfection when Christ comes back and humans will be restored and renewed as well after the judgment.

Human beings will finally be able to be what they were intended to be from the beginning: image bearers of YHWH and working without evil in the earth.

Christians are commanded to live out as best they can to do that and spread the gospel so that all can participate, with the help of the Holy Spirit guiding us, until that day when all is restored and renewed.

resolve
4th December 14, 01:32 AM
I'd like everyone to notice how resolve has scampered away like the little bitch he is, which is what he does every time he gets schooled.


Sent from my mobile thingy.

I'd really like you to start posting sources. Some of the things in your postings are really off-base and I'd like to find what atheist meme and revisionist christian sites you are spewing them from.

You ask the same of me after all.

resolve
4th December 14, 01:34 AM
Also I'd really like you to understand what the word destroy means.

resolve
4th December 14, 01:39 AM
Also I'd really like you to understand what the word destroy means.

And this isn't the hell thread, I'm still making that (since you guys asked a while ago and I haven't finished reading the original text and context).

But still:


Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

nihilist
4th December 14, 03:33 AM
He will come back but won't rebut the case I laid out for hell being a contrived method of control.

nihilist
4th December 14, 03:36 AM
Also I'd really like you to understand what the word destroy means. if I destroyed your central nervous system would you be able to feel pain?
No.

The trouble with you is you believe everything you think.

nihilist
4th December 14, 03:47 AM
Samuel G. Dawson was a physics and mathematics graduate from Texas Tech who did research in celestial mechanics and intercontinental missile guidance in the aerospace industry. He left science to begin 22 years of public teaching about religious topics. He did extensive live call-in radio work daily for eight years and participated in a number of religious debates. He still believed the church's conception of a real hell when a caller to his call-in radio show said, "Don't you know that hell is just something the Catholic Church invented to scare people into obedience?" He was "righteously indignant," but began research to find the origins of the church's hell theology to make sure he was correct. After extensive study, this was his conclusion:

I now believe that hell is the invention of Roman Catholicism; and surprisingly, most, if not all, of our popular concepts of hell can be found in the writings of Roman Catholic writers like the Italian poet Dante Alighieri (1265-1321), author of Dante's Inferno. The English poet John Milton (1608-1674), author of Paradise Lost, set forth the same concepts in a fashion highly acceptable to the Roman Catholic faith. Yet none of our concepts of hell can be found in the teaching of Jesus Christ! [Dawson's italics] We get indignant at the mention of purgatory—we know that's not in the Bible. We may also find that our popular concepts of hell came from the same place that purgatory did—Roman Catholicism.

nihilist
4th December 14, 03:49 AM
Concordant Publishing Concern is a well-known publisher of Bible literature, including the Concordant Literal New Testament, Concordant Version of the Old Testament, Concordant Greek Text, and Concordant Commentary. They make the point strongly that the English word "hell" should no longer be used in Bible texts because of the "corrupting influence of human tradition" that has given it the image of a place of torment where judged souls are condemned to spend eternity, an image that is simply untrue:


THE OLD ENGLISH “hell,” denoted that which is covered (hidden or unseen). Consequently, it once served as a suitable translation of the Greek hades, which means “imperceptible” or “unseen.” In modern English, however, due to the corrupting influence of human tradition, “hell” has come to mean “the abode of the dead; the place of punishment after death [in which the dead are alive].” Consequently, since in modern English the notion represented by the term “hell” constitutes, to say the least, interpretation, not translation, it is unconscionable for modern translators to render either the Hebrew sheol or the Greek hades by this expression. Yet it is worse still, whether in old English or modern English, to render the Greek tartarosas and especially the Greek geenna, also as “hell.” Such “translations” are not translations at all; they are but the product of circular reasoning and hoary tradition. Whatever one’s understanding may be concerning the matters to which these words make reference, as a translation of the Original, the rendering “hell,” in all cases, is wholly unjustifiable. Yet it is this very rendering, the single term, “hell,” for all these distinct words in the Original, which has spawned all the familiar talk concerning “hell” which prevails among “Bible-believing Christians” today. (James Coram, "The Gehenna of Fire," Concordant Publishing Concern, 2006)

nihilist
4th December 14, 03:50 AM
Statement by Thomas B. Thayer, D.D. Dr. Thayer has been described as "a biblical scholar of rare breadth" (Virtual American Biographies, 2006). He devoted considerable study to the theology of hell and wrote The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment (1855), still a standard treatise widely quoted. This is a portion from the chapter titled "The Biblical Doctrine of Hell."
Hell in the Old Testament

The word hell, in the Old Testament, is always a translation of the Hebrew word Sheol, which occurs sixty-four times, and is rendered "hell" thirty-two times, "grave" twenty-nine times, and "pit" three times.
By examination of the Hebrew Scriptures it will be found that its radical or primary meaning is, The place or state of the dead.
It is plain that it has here no reference to a place of endless torment after death.

It is plain, then, from these citations, that the word Sheol, "hell," makes nothing for the doctrine of future unending punishment as a part of the Law penalties. It is never used by Moses or the Prophets in the sense of a place of torment after death; and in no way conflicts with the statement already proved, that the Law of Moses deals wholly in temporal rewards and punishments.
Hell in the New Testament [continuing Thayer's explanation]
Now no one believes in such a hell as this. A material hell of fire, and torments by flame, have been long ago abandoned. And the Savior cannot be understood as believing or teaching future torments, . . . We have now passed in review, as far as our limits will permit, the New Testament doctrine of hell, and we have not, surely, found it to be the doctrine of endless punishment, but something very wide from this.

nihilist
4th December 14, 03:54 AM
Origins of the Word "Hell" (http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_hades.htm)

My Additional Comments
about the Hell Myth
The church after 30 CE developed a religion that suited its purposes. It added much that was never in Yeshua, including the myth of hell. We know from Yeshua's teaching that hell is incompatible with the God he describes:



If it had been the central tenet of Yeshua's teaching, he would have told his listeners about it! It would be a remarkable omission if Yeshua knew that the ultimate, only important choice a person must make in life is to believe in him or face eternal torment in hell, and omit it from his teaching. And yet in Mark, the earliest gospel, truest to Yeshua's words, Yeshua doesn't talk about a hell at all.
He does refer to a garbage dump in the Valley of Hinnom ("Gehenna") outside Jerusalem. That was mistranslated as "hell" by early translators, but modern translators have corrected that. It was a garbage dump, not a place of eternal torment.
This is how that happened. In Mark, Yeshua makes a strong point about eliminating things from one's life that limit spiritual growth, and about the destruction that would come to Israel if the people didn't change their ways. The physical realm is superfluous, he implies, and if your hand, foot, or eye limit your spiritual growth, you're better off without them because your body is going to end up (figuratively) on the garbage dump, and what's going to be left? He echoes the admonition in Matthew 6:19: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal." Everything, including the body, is going to end up on the garbage dump. Only what a person achieves spiritually is eternal. (Mark 9:43-45)
The "valley of the son of Hinnom" outside Jerusalem was called "Gehenna." Those who heard Yeshua's words would have known immediately where it was and what it was. Children in earlier ages had been sacrificed to the god Moloch there, and the Jews viewed it as accursed. Yeshua used it as an extreme on the continuum from entering the kingdom of God through spiritual growth and suffering what the body will eventually suffer: being thrown on the garbage dump to be burned.
It was a striking metaphor for things that are worthless and for the fire and destruction Israel would experience, but Yeshua never mentions a hell the way the church portrayed it.
By the time the King James Version of the Bible was translated in the early seventeenth century, the church had already developed the doctrine of hell and fictional descriptions had been written by Dante (a poet, not a theologian), so the translators just translated the name of the garbage dump (gehenna, or "valley of henna") as "hell." It was a remarkably bad translation. Yeshua wasn't referring to a hell at all, and certainly not to such a place as the poets described. It doesn't exist.
References to judgment in the later gospels (Luke, Matthew, and John) were additions to Yeshua's teaching, possibly in the first writings of the texts, but more likely even later as the texts were edited by the church. There are no references to such judgment in the original writings about Yeshua (Paul's letters, written around 50 - 65 CE, the Q sayings gospel, written before 70 CE, and Mark, written shortly after 70 CE).
If hell really existed and the 12 who were with him, whom he loved, were going to have to either stay with him or roast in hell for eternity, wouldn't he have told them repeatedly? Wouldn't he have made that the central point of the Sermon on the Mount and the parables?
Instead, Yeshua never talks about hell! It simply was not Yeshua's teaching about eternal life.


Paul's theology focuses on salvation to the exclusion of Yeshua's teaching, but Paul never mentions hell. Paul used every means he could think of to convert the Jews, the "god fearers" who worshipped with the Jews, and the Gentiles, so he promised them salvation, meaning they would have eternal life in the Kingdom of God when it was inaugurated. Those who weren't saved would just have to live on the earth as regular people, we suppose. But even when he wanted so much to convert people to believe in Yeshua as the Messiah, he never mentions a hell!


The Acts of the Apostles doesn't mention a hell. Surely if hell were so central to humankind and Yeshua's mission, Peter and Paul would have told people about it. Hell would have been central to the Acts. But it is never mentioned in The Acts of the Apostles, even once. The reason: They never even considered the idea.


The place of eternal torment is incompatible with the Kingdom of God as Yeshua described it Perhaps the most compelling reason we know hell is not a reality is that it is entirely incompatible with the Kingdom of God as Yeshua described it. In the Kingdom of God, there is no judgment and condemnation. There is only universal peace, brotherhood, and unconditional love. We enter the Kingdom of God by maturing spiritually so we are peaceful, brotherly, and loving. To mature spiritually, we must leave behind the desire and expectation for punishment, revenge, rewards for the worthy, and retribution for the unworthy.
It is inconceivable that God retains one of the primary fleshly characteristics that humankind must learn to abandon. Can we imagine the ruler of a country today requiring all citizens to swear allegiance to him and worship him, then committing to a pit of unspeakable horror all those men, women, and children who don't swear allegiance, without opportunity for reprieve, where they are tortured unmercifully with fire and guards that bite their bodies, every day, all day, for the rest of their lives? Of course not. That ruler would be a monster more evil than Idi Amin, Stalin, or Hitler. And yet the church would have us believe the God Yeshua described is that monster.
Judgment, condemnation, and retribution are spiritually immature attitudes characteristic of a tribal people that wages war with its neighbors, executes people for trivial indiscretions, and cheers when those with whom they disagree are defeated and punished. The church assigned that immature attitude to the God it created, whom they portray as a ruthless dictator that rules through fear and intimidation, when it should have been helping people mature out of the need to judge and condemn. The sentiments are simply incompatible with spiritual maturity, Yeshua's teachings, and God.
And what person who has merited heaven because of their love and compassion would want to spend every day in eternity knowing a parent, son, daughter, brother, or sister was writhing in pain in a fiery torture chamber and could never be redeemed? What kind of heaven would that be for them to be imagining their loved one's agony every morning when they awoke, and in the silence of every evening when they lay waiting for sleep to give them some relief? It is inconceivable that the God Yeshua described would condemn a parent, son, daughter, brother, or sister to that mental anguish for eternity.
And what sort of universe would it be for those who took to heart Yeshua's teachings and had become loving and compassionate to know that billions of people were in unspeakable agony while they were in heavenly luxury? The universe would, for eternity, contain pain, suffering, and misery, regardless of how mature a heavenly segment was becoming.
And those who were in the torment could never grow to become more compassionate, learning to love others and God. They would have no opportunity for reprieve, even if they changed in outlook and attitude. In fact, the hell thing would perpetuate anger and hatred in the universe as billions of souls cursed God and humanity. It's simply unthinkable for such a concept to be attributed to any God other than that fabricated by a church that itself encouraged the torture and murder of those who disagreed with its teachings.
In the Kingdom of God as Yeshua described it, no person will be judged; none will be unworthy; none will be unloved; none will be unacceptable. Probably the most difficult lesson we will have to learn, and the most persistent worldly characteristic we will have to abandon, is the desire for rewards given to us, who are right, and punishment and retribution inflicted upon them, who are wrong. The suggestion that God would judge humanity, committing the vast majority to eternal torment, is perfectly in character with the medieval church, but diametrically opposite to Yeshua's teaching about the Kingdom of God.

The hell myth is a fiction developed by the church to increase its power and keep the flock under control. It simply never existed.

nihilist
4th December 14, 04:03 AM
Reading list:



The Inventors and Perpetrators of Hell (http://30ce.com/TheInventorsandPerpetratorsofHell.pdf)
(Gary Amirault, Acrobat .pdf format)
This explanation contains a list of ancient philosophers who developed the hell myth and a list of famous Christian theologians who continued perpetuated the myth in spite of the fact that it had no Biblical basis.
The Savior of the World Series on Hell (http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/hell.htm)
(J. Preston Eby, Web page)
The Real Meaning of the Rich Man and Lazarus (http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellArticles/RichManParable.htm)
(Ernest Martin, Ph.D.)

What does Hell look like? (http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com)
(Ernest Martin, Ph.D., Tentmaker Ministries, Gary Amirault, Web site)
Jesus' Teaching on Hell (http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html)
(Samuel G. Dawson)
Most of what we believe about hell comes from Catholicism and ignorance of the Old Testament, not from the Bible.

The Case Against Hell (http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ifhellisreal.htm)
(Mercy Aiken, with Gary Amirault)


The Lake of Fire (http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html)
(J. Preston Eby)
An examination of the words used in the church in the light of the original Greek and rest of scripture. (such as the Lake of Fire).


An article that asks some very important questions about the history of the doctrine of Hell.


Hell is Leaving the Bible "Forever." (http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellChart.html)
(http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellChart.html)
The word "hell" is disappearing from the pages of English Bible translations and HAS already completely disappeared from many of them. Scholars are beginning to see that a few key ancient words should not have been translated to mean "eternal."


The Bible Hell (http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html)
(John Wesley Hanson, Ph.D.)
A book by Dr. John Wesley Hanson detailing the history of the English word "hell." He also goes into thorough detail discussing the Greek and Hebrew words, Sheol, Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.

The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment (Thomas Thayer, D.D.) (http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html)
A book by Thomas Thayer proving the teaching of Hell and Everlasting Punishment was added to Christianity centuries after Jesus walked this earth.

nihilist
4th December 14, 04:05 AM
I do hope you can pull the Roman Catholic dick out of your mouth and set yourself free.
This is my sincere Christmas wish to you.

Cullion
4th December 14, 04:52 AM
Brother Moleculo, I'd like you to clarify a theological point:-

If were to take the scriptures at face value (as we're talking about what scripture does or does not describe, lets just work within the worldview set up in scripture), where there is no hell but there is definitely a concept of sin, what happens to unrepentant sinners ?

nihilist
4th December 14, 05:27 AM
The original stance was that they die and are not given eternal life in the presence of god.

Feryk
4th December 14, 01:58 PM
Wow. Ask and ye shall receive. Praise be, brother Mole!

Harpy
4th December 14, 05:46 PM
I think everyone on Sociocide needs to become Christian or Catholic this month and try to convert Mosesulo.

nihilist
4th December 14, 06:33 PM
Change name to Molestulo plz.


Sent from my mobile thingy.

Harpy
4th December 14, 07:17 PM
How about Uncle Molestulo to make it more festive?

Spade: The Real Snake
4th December 14, 08:22 PM
If that doesn't lure Lebell back, nothing will


Sent by telekinesis via Cerebro

Harpy
4th December 14, 10:19 PM
Nah, Lebell told me last week that he will never post here again. Our loss :(

resolve
5th December 14, 01:08 AM
None of those things are new to me Reese.

Especially the part about the modern conception of hell mostly coming from literature and pop culture of the differing times. Remember some of the things I've said about how people think of Satan being completely bass-ackwards due to how he is portrayed in literature and movies?

And you still can't rebut the fact that hell as a conception exists within the New Testament and that a waiting place for souls "Sheol" exists in the Old that is partitioned into a negative and positive place.

You also have not come to terms with the word destroy yet. But it seems like you are making progress in getting there!

resolve
5th December 14, 01:35 AM
I now believe that hell is the invention of Roman Catholicism; and surprisingly, most, if not all, of our popular concepts of hell can be found in the writings of Roman Catholic writers like the Italian poet Dante Alighieri (1265-1321), author of Dante's Inferno. The English poet John Milton (1608-1674), author of Paradise Lost, set forth the same concepts in a fashion highly acceptable to the Roman Catholic faith.

I agree with this.


Yet none of our concepts of hell can be found in the teaching of Jesus Christ!

And yet that I don't. Jesus talked about "hell" pretty often.


I liked this explanation from OwenW of Patheos. I find it pretty spot-on. I would suggest you also read the verses where Jesus talks about Gehenna/Sheol. Start with Matthew 13:49-50 and Matthew 25:46 and Mark 3:29. There's almost 50 of them iirc. Then you can read Revelation and understand things from there in a better context. Revelation 21:7-8 is a good spot.


Later Jewish belief saw that gehenna was the place for God's final judgment would take place (According to the BDAG lexicon). This belief is more than simply a burning of the body that occurred in the physical location, but that something more would happen at Gehenna. It is plausible that the very things that occurred in the Valley of Hinnon conveyed a sense of humiliation, degradation, contempt, and uncleanliness that they associated it with the place that God would reject evildoers in the final judgment. Given the dead bodies there, it is very conceivable this placed conveyed such a rejection to a intensively unclean (a great Jewish fear) and perpetually destructive place (everlasting fire). While we can not be 100% sure that Jesus was influenced by the same ideas regarding 'gehenna' as later Jewish belief, the additional fact that he clearly speaks of it in a way that evokes a meaning beyond simply the physical burning of bodies does lend validity that 'gehenna' could have other connotations, most particularly of God's definitive judgment.

So, it is true to say that 'gehenna' is not consistent with our popular understandings of 'hell,' but I do think we should avoid overcorrecting by 'literalizing' the usage of gehenna (with only making room for 'dual fulfillments') and miss the strong, symbolic (and eschatological) significance that place had taken when Jesus spoke of it. This still fits with much of what you said elsewhere and can still work with annihilationism, but we also see Jesus language being a directly intended as a reference to a particular, final judgment of the whole person's life (body and soul), not just a description of physical death or simply the destruction event of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

nihilist
5th December 14, 01:50 AM
It is apparent that God and Jesus of the Bible were not too concerned about articulating the nature of where people might find themselves for an eternity.

Plenty of people like yourself are all too willing to 'interpret' what they secretly want, which is for non-believers to suffer for not joining your little club.

If hell were real then god/jesus/holy spigot would spell out the details rather than dance around the subject like a bunch of Kansas city faggots.

resolve
5th December 14, 01:58 AM
It is apparent that God and Jesus of the Bible were not too concerned about articulating the nature of where people might find themselves for an eternity.

Oh, you're quite wrong about that.


Plenty of people like yourself are all too willing to 'interpret' what they secretly want, which is for non-believers to suffer for not joining your little club.

No. But I like how you used quotes around interpret too. Makes it extra shady!


If hell were real then god/jesus/holy spigot would spell out the details rather than dance around the subject like a bunch of Kansas city faggots.

He did. Hell is separation from God who is our wellspring of life.

More on that and why that's so important in Hell thread.

I also don't know why you have such an obsession with Hell going on right now. This thread isn't even about Hell, but about the consequences of a curse from a prophet of God and the proper interpretation of ancient Hebrew, but you always seem to come back around to it. It's odd.

nihilist
5th December 14, 02:17 AM
Oh, you're quite wrong about that.
Jesus was alive for twelve thousand days. About how many of those days would you say he went into any detail at all about eternal punishment for finite crimes?

resolve
5th December 14, 02:19 AM
Jesus was alive for twelve thousand days. About how many of those days would you say he went into any detail at all about eternal punishment for finite crimes?

A very good chunk of His 3 year public ministry.

nihilist
5th December 14, 02:33 AM
Give me one quote where jesus states outright that there will be an eternity in hell for not being righteous.

resolve
5th December 14, 02:35 AM
You are presuming things about me that you shouldn't.

resolve
5th December 14, 02:35 AM
Also you just can't make an argument without a strawman.

It's kind of endearing.

nihilist
5th December 14, 02:38 AM
It's quite entertaining when you try to wriggle out of your typically christian lies.

nihilist
5th December 14, 02:40 AM
People spending an eternity in hell was a subject so important to Jesus that he never bother to form a coherent statement about it.

NoBowie
5th December 14, 02:44 AM
People spending an eternity in hell was a subject so important to Jesus that he never bother to form a coherent statement about it.

Yup. Same thing with abortion. And homosexuality.

nihilist
5th December 14, 02:45 AM
Don't forget the owning of human beings as property.

nihilist
5th December 14, 02:46 AM
And having sex with prepubescent girls.

resolve
5th December 14, 02:50 AM
I would suggest you do the reading I wrote to you earlier. That will prepare you for what's to come.

resolve
5th December 14, 02:52 AM
Also Ezekiel 18:20.

:)

nihilist
5th December 14, 02:59 AM
NMVjMRi7Vxo#t=46

Harpy
5th December 14, 03:11 AM
Jesus was alive for twelve thousand days. About how many of those days would you say he went into any detail at all about eternal punishment for finite crimes?
How about you keep it to his adult life? Or were you some sort of child savant?

nihilist
5th December 14, 03:15 AM
I would suggest you do the reading I wrote to you earlier. That will prepare you for what's to come.
troll on faggot.

nihilist
5th December 14, 03:17 AM
How about you keep it to his adult life? Or were you some sort of child savant?

Men back then were commanding armies and ruling kingdoms at 15.

Is it too much to ask for the son of god to pull his dick out of the sheep and articulate a rather simple concept?

If you recall I asked for a single statement from the Jebster.
You know, in between walking on water and having what I'm sure was a platonic relationship with a whore.

nihilist
5th December 14, 03:25 AM
Also Ezekiel 18:20. you don't inherit sin, except when you do! lol!!!

:)

You fucking retard.

resolve
5th December 14, 09:03 AM
You still don't get it but don't worry.

nihilist
5th December 14, 11:16 AM
Imagine.


Sent from my mobile thingy.

Feryk
5th December 14, 12:37 PM
How about Uncle Molestulo to make it more festive?

Padre Molestulo would be better.

nihilist
5th December 14, 05:35 PM
Papi Molestulo


Sent from my mobile thingy.

nihilist
6th December 14, 03:15 AM
You still don't get it but don't worry. I know exactly what you are doing.

Cullion
6th December 14, 06:44 AM
Um

"The Parable of the Net
47 "Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 51 "Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked. "Yes," they replied. 52 He said to them, "Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old."

Oh.

Spade: The Real Snake
6th December 14, 09:14 AM
Except with fish, the chose and righteous are thrown into the fiery furnace. With a nice beer-batter coating, of course.

Cullion
6th December 14, 09:51 AM
It seems like Christ did teach about a fiery hell, but maybe there's something funny going on with the translation. I don't know aramaic or greek.

Üser Friendly
6th December 14, 10:06 AM
I prefer the sheep from the goats metaphor myself

nihilist
6th December 14, 01:25 PM
There are plenty of books by detailing how creative translation perverted early Christianity into an immoral and evil organization.
Since resolve is not interested in the truth or following through on any of this so called research, then it is highly unlikely he that he will ever crack open any of the books I suggested even though they are authored by eminent historians and scholars.


Sent from my mobile thingy.

resolve
7th December 14, 03:08 AM
@Cullion
Jesus used many real world metaphors in his parables to teach about spiritual truth.

------------------

The one thing I have had drumming in my head lately, even for myself, is this:



Therefore He says: God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.



He mocks those who mock, but gives grace to the humble.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
7th December 14, 06:36 AM
You're not humble resolve.

Üser Friendly
7th December 14, 08:05 AM
I wouldn't say resolve was proud, either

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
7th December 14, 08:31 AM
Maybe not but arrogant for sure.

Üser Friendly
7th December 14, 11:05 AM
I don't personally think he is particularly arrogant either

At least not above average for persons of belief, or members of this site for that matter

Spade: The Real Snake
7th December 14, 11:17 AM
He's a typical Christian: "Not Perfect, Just Saved", which brings it's own brand of hypocritical arrogance.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
7th December 14, 11:17 AM
Sure the site is full of arrogant arseholes.

I dont know any humble arrogant people, do you?

NoBowie
7th December 14, 12:37 PM
I am a paragon of virtue.

My humility travels with me, like the long list of kudos in my signature.

Seriously though, it's hard to be humble when you smell like papi, act like James Dean, write like a Douglas Adams / Robert Frost hybrid and dance like MJ.

I probably shouldn't be talking to any of you.

You're welcome though.

Üser Friendly
7th December 14, 12:46 PM
Sure the site is full of arrogant arseholes.

I dont know any humble arrogant people, do you?

A humble person can act arrogant, and visa versa

resolve seems to me to be a fairly humble person that can post arrogantly

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
7th December 14, 02:17 PM
What makes you think he's humble Doofa: The Fake Zumba Goat?

Üser Friendly
8th December 14, 01:32 AM
Relativly humble

Just from how I percieve him from his non-wall of text posts

Fuck knows what he's like IRL

nihilist
8th December 14, 01:42 AM
Humble? not really.http://www.escapeintolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2kings2-23-24-e1349472588148.jpg Evil and immoral? Without a doubt.

nihilist
8th December 14, 01:45 AM
http://i.imgur.com/NheHkUU.png

nihilist
8th December 14, 01:50 AM
http://www.dumbshitthebiblesays.com/images/4.jpg

nihilist
8th December 14, 02:10 AM
Christian morality in action:
ng8yUPsfk0s

Üser Friendly
8th December 14, 04:40 PM
Just a stab in rthe dark here, but I'm guessing you're bald Reese

Spade: The Real Snake
8th December 14, 04:53 PM
I want a stab in the dark, right here,from your bald-headed Reese

Üser Friendly
8th December 14, 04:58 PM
I want to pick low hanging fruit and have sex with it

NoBowie
8th December 14, 05:04 PM
Snake! Doof!

Stop insulting each other!

You know, that whatever you do, you do it together.

"All for holes, and holes for all!"

The two musket-rears, Doof and Snake.

Üser Friendly
8th December 14, 05:06 PM
Who should I insult then?

Üser Friendly
8th December 14, 05:06 PM
I know


Reese

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th December 14, 10:44 AM
Relativly humble

Just from how I percieve him from his non-wall of text posts

Fuck knows what he's like IRL

See, I think he has the faux-humility that many religious people have but when pressed it crumbles away. Mainly due to the lack of humility surrounding the concrete belief system they have adopted to help them deal with the soul crushing existential angst they would have to come to terms with should they be wrong. (how would you comma-ise that last sentence?)

The only humble & religious people I've met have been Quakers.

Üser Friendly
9th December 14, 11:14 AM
Like I said

relativly humble

Feryk
9th December 14, 11:36 AM
Who should I insult then?


Your grammar insults us all.

Üser Friendly
9th December 14, 12:28 PM
Humble? not really.http://www.escapeintolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2kings2-23-24-e1349472588148.jpg Evil and immoral? Without a doubt.

Firstly, horned bears?

Second more than two

Third turbanned dude is clearly muzlim and hoilding a pagan idol

so this image is totaly un related to jews killing kids with bears in the bible

What is your point other than you are just as deluded/prepared to bullshit to support your beliefs as resolve?

nihilist
9th December 14, 12:54 PM
Artistic license.


Sent from my mobile thingy.

nihilist
9th December 14, 12:56 PM
You should just stop posting, farmtard. You add nothing to the site except stupidity.


Sent from my mobile thingy.

Üser Friendly
9th December 14, 01:35 PM
You should just stop posting, farmtard. You add nothing to the site except stupidity.


Sent from my mobile thingy.

Yeah right

Because you definatly fill the sites stupidity quota

Harpy
9th December 14, 03:51 PM
We need a whole new thread about humility and religion. Who ever said a person must be humble in one's faith?

NoBowie
9th December 14, 04:01 PM
We need a whole new thread about humility and religion. Who ever said a person must be humble in one's faith?

Most major deities and religious authorities, that's who.

However, CTHULHU IS THE ONE TRUE GOD AND I AM A MEMBER OF HIS FLOCK AND YOU SHOULD ALL SERVICE MY ONE TENTACLE-LIKE APPENDAGE IN REVERENCE TO HIS POWERFUL VISAGE!!!

Spade: The Real Snake
9th December 14, 04:38 PM
We need a whole new thread about humility and religion. Who ever said a person must be humble in one's faith?
Is this where we call for "Blood for the Bloodgod" and "Skulls for the Skullthrone"?

Spade: The Real Snake
9th December 14, 04:39 PM
YOU SHOULD ALL SERVICE MY ONE TENTACLE-LIKE APPENDAGE
Tell the Bulgarian to apply some Preparation-H

Feryk
9th December 14, 04:40 PM
Most major deities and religious authorities, that's who.

However, CTHULHU IS THE ONE TRUE GOD AND I AM A MEMBER OF HIS FLOCK AND YOU SHOULD ALL SERVICE MY ONE TENTACLE-LIKE APPENDAGE IN REVERENCE TO HIS POWERFUL VISAGE!!!

If you've read the prophet Lovecraft, you would know better than this. The last thing you want is Cthulu's attention.

resolve
11th December 14, 09:56 AM
There's pretty much no way to "prove" one's humility over an internet message board. That kind of insight into someone comes from close proximity interaction.

Doing so would kind of defeat the purpose anyways no?

*shrugs*


Any way, I have some more threads I'm working on. Been busy interviewing and freelancing but I'll definitely try to get them done :).

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
11th December 14, 10:04 AM
Yeah

NoBowie
14th December 14, 01:21 AM
http://i.imgur.com/7xoi70g.jpg