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Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
19th September 12, 06:36 PM
A Harvard University professor on Tuesday unveiled a fourth-century fragment of papyrus she said is the only existing ancient text quoting Jesus explicitly referring to having a wife.

Karen King, an expert in the history of Christianity, said the text contains a dialogue in which Jesus refers to "my wife," whom he identifies as Mary. King says the fragment of Coptic script is a copy of a gospel, probably written in Greek in the second century.


King helped translate and unveiled the tiny fragment at a conference of Coptic experts in Rome. She said it doesn't prove Jesus was married but speaks to issues of family and marriage that faced Christians.



Four words in the 1.5-by-3-inch (3.8-by-7.6-centimeter) fragment provide the first evidence that some early Christians believed Jesus had been married, King said. Those words, written in a language of ancient Egyptian Christians, translate to "Jesus said to them, my wife," King said in a statement.


King said that in the dialogue the disciples discuss whether Mary is worthy and Jesus says "she can be my disciple."


Christian tradition has long held that Jesus was unmarried even though there was no reliable historical evidence to support that, King said. The new gospel, she said, "tells us that the whole question only came up as part of vociferous debates about sexuality and marriage."


"From the very beginning, Christians disagreed about whether it was better not to marry," she said, "but it was over a century after Jesus's death before they began appealing to Jesus's marital status to support their positions."







Full article here (warning its from Fox) (http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/09/18/harvard-scholar-discovery-suggests-jesus-had-wife/)

My Gods (TMs pending) Dan Brown was right!!!

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
19th September 12, 06:38 PM
OK why has the text turned black half why through the quote?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
19th September 12, 06:38 PM
OMG Tori Amos was in on it!!

nihilist
20th September 12, 12:56 AM
OK why has the text turned black half why through the quote?
BC you copypasta'd it.

Just highlight all the text and choose 'automatic' from the drop-down color menu

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
20th September 12, 08:38 AM
Praise be!

billy sol hurok
20th September 12, 09:22 AM
Dang Copts stirring up shit again!

Aphid Jones
20th September 12, 08:30 PM
The Gospel of Thomas is far more interesting.

Especially the part where women have to grow dicks to get into the 7th heaven.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
20th September 12, 08:49 PM
More proof that Jesus was gay then?

Aphid Jones
20th September 12, 08:51 PM
He was only gay according to fanfics like Secret Mark.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
21st September 12, 08:24 AM
So you dont think Jesus had any sexuality?

mrblackmagic
21st September 12, 09:56 AM
I was reading a lot of Josephus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus back in February. Josephus was a contemporary and he clearly said Jesus had a family. It's funny because he was a contemporary and actual, no b.s., historian and most chrisitian ignore his writing because he's jewish.

Spade: The Real Snake
21st September 12, 10:38 AM
Jesus had groupies.

Aphid Jones
21st September 12, 01:50 PM
I was reading a lot of Josephus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus back in February. Josephus was a contemporary and he clearly said Jesus had a family. It's funny because he was a contemporary and actual, no b.s., historian and most chrisitian ignore his writing because he's jewish.

Christians love Josephus because of the supposed Jesus reference there.

I've never heard the claim that Josephus reports that Jesus had a wife and children, though.

Aphid Jones
21st September 12, 01:50 PM
So you dont think Jesus had any sexuality?

No, he probably did.

Harpy
21st September 12, 09:21 PM
Are there any reports of Jesus having a lisp or high-pitched voice?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
21st September 12, 09:41 PM
No, he probably did.

Kids?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
21st September 12, 09:41 PM
Are there any reports of Jesus having a lisp or high-pitched voice?

Ask lebell, he's met him apparently!

nihilist
22nd September 12, 12:14 AM
Resolve talks directly to Jesus' dad all the time, so he would be a much better person to ask than Aphid or Lebell.

Aphid Jones
22nd September 12, 01:01 AM
Kids?

Nah.

I mean, he wasn't asexual. But the accounts we have say that he was celibate, and there is no other account saying he wasn't.

If the neoplatonists writing about Jesus's "wife" in the OP snippet thought actual sex was going on, it would have destroyed their entire gay semen and wisdom-obsessed Hellenistic framework of understanding things.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
22nd September 12, 01:17 AM
How so?

And do you mean other Christian accounts?

Cullion
22nd September 12, 02:39 AM
I didn't think celibacy was the kind of ascetic practice found in Judaism of that era, just strict kosher diet rules and lots of prayer and fasting. Celibacy sounds like a later Hellenistic add-on to me.

nihilist
22nd September 12, 03:37 AM
Celibacy is an insult to God.

Harpy
22nd September 12, 04:18 AM
Depends on which god or goddess one worships.

nihilist
22nd September 12, 04:52 AM
No.

Harpy
22nd September 12, 05:13 AM
Option B celibacy: buried pen0r (so gross)?

Cullion
22nd September 12, 05:21 AM
AIUI, it was a feature of ancient Judaism to practice relative moderation when it came to sex and other forms bodily pleasure, whereas the Hellenistic cults tended to oscillate between total sexual self-denial and wild orgies.

I think the Christian idea that Jesus must never have had sex evolved from a form of Hellenistic mysticism that was based on denial of bodily urges, that was then grafted on top of biblical scriptures centuries later.

Aphid Jones
22nd September 12, 10:30 AM
AIUI, it was a feature of ancient Judaism to practice relative moderation when it came to sex and other forms bodily pleasure, whereas the Hellenistic cults tended to oscillate between total sexual self-denial and wild orgies.

I think the Christian idea that Jesus must never have had sex evolved from a form of Hellenistic mysticism that was based on denial of bodily urges, that was then grafted on top of biblical scriptures centuries later.

This was the prevailing belief in previous centuries, but we now know that 3rd BCE-1st Century CE Judaism contained incredibly hellenized elements and various sects with odd ascetical practices. See Qumran for one famous example; see the Hellenistic Jewish Apocrypha for another.

It's tempting to read a uniform, modern Rabbinic Judaism back into the 1st Century, but not very accurate.

The guy who may have overseen three of the four Gospels and who wrote all those Epistles, St. Paul, was a Jew with an atypical ascetical understanding, for example. "Tampering of the Gaps" isn't a very likely explanation for this ascetic. Plus, Early Christians believed in the goodness of sexuality in marriage to the point of anathematizing those who were prideful about celibacy (see Synod of Gangra) and even believed that intercourse would continue in some glorified form in the Coming Age "Hos Angeli". Admittedly, this was far from universal, but it was the prevailing view. Maybe not in Western Europe during the middle ages, though.

On a side note it would seem that, for the first few decades of Christianity, because everyone thought Jesus's return was chronologically imminent, they were taught to avoid marriage if possible.

Aphid Jones
22nd September 12, 10:38 AM
How so?

And do you mean other Christian accounts?

1. The notion of Gnostic Jesus having physical, carnal sex with a WOMAN, would have been incredibly off-putting to the religious Neoplatonists who authored various fanfics about him.

Religious Neoplatonists of the time believed that the bodily, composed existence was to be transcended through ecstatic contemplation of the Platonic forms or, logismi/logikoi/what have you. They also believed that women lacked the complete human faculty to achieve such transcendence, except perhaps as a representation of the Platonic Form of "Wisdom". They fetishized the generative power of males (semen being a key one) as representing a higher spiritual reality. They presumably had a lot of buttsex.

For one example of this, take the extended ending to the "Gnostic" Gospel of Thomas:

"Simon Peter said to them, 'Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life.' Jesus said, 'Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

For an easy-to-access example of semen veneration, check out the writings of Clement of Alexandria in the late 2nd Century.

2. In Christian and non-Christian accounts.

nihilist
22nd September 12, 11:15 AM
Any truth to the rumor that "the kingdom of heaven" is just a euphemism for the lower intestine?

Aphid Jones
22nd September 12, 12:26 PM
Any truth to the rumor that "the kingdom of heaven" is just a euphemism for the lower intestine?

Well, it resides in the heart of man, and the "heart" was located in the bowels for the Hebrews.

So in some sense, yes!

Aphid Jones
22nd September 12, 01:08 PM
So pegging is the way to reach the kingdom of heaven. What have I been telling you guys?!?!?
Eisegesis has always been pornographic in nature.

Spade: The Real Snake
22nd September 12, 01:11 PM
So pegging is the way to reach the kingdom of heaven. What have I been telling you guys?!?!?

Pegging only gets you to the third level beyond the veil
Enjoy seeing your temple-sealed ex cuz, you know, families are forever and shit

nihilist
22nd September 12, 02:41 PM
Mushrooms grow from shit.

Adouglasmhor
23rd September 12, 03:54 PM
Mushrooms grow from shit.

http://lookslikeapenis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Stinkhorn.jpg

nihilist
23rd September 12, 04:01 PM
JESUS CHRIST!

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
23rd September 12, 04:12 PM
COME ON DOWN!

Feryk
24th September 12, 02:16 PM
^ LOL! Can't rep you for that, but it made me laugh.