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View Full Version : China = New Military Superpower ??



OZZ
20th May 12, 08:55 PM
Its not like this comes out of nowhere, the writing has been on the wall for a long time.
China has been stepping things up and flexing its muscles a bit for a while now.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/05/17/f-vp-stewart-china-navy.html

The thing I found interesting about this article is that this year the Russians are taking part in the Pacific Rim naval exercise.
Aren't the Russkies more of an ally with the Chinese than the USA ?
The two of them always veto things at the U.N. together..plus it would just make sense for them to hang with one another in light of the geography.
??

Yiktin Voxbane
21st May 12, 02:11 AM
Well , perhaps you should be ....

Lollius Urbicus
21st May 12, 07:28 AM
Chinese kit is nowhere near as good as American kit. However, the Americans using the kit couldn't tell their arse from their elbow if you gave them a map. So maybe it comes out about even at the end.

Cullion
21st May 12, 08:17 AM
I've no doubt that US military technology is generally much more advanced, but I don't know how the spending power compares. When we compare the US budget to the Chinese budget, are we accounting for the difference in pay between an American and a Chinese infantryman, for example ?

Lollius Urbicus
21st May 12, 08:32 AM
Also do budget figures for the PLA only include money paid out through the official budget?

The PLA has very extensive and often very profitable commercial interests, which means that its funding is potentially much larger than the headline figure in the government budget.

Craigypooh
21st May 12, 08:32 AM
I was talking to an American the other day on this subject and his view is - "we should nuke 'em now, while we still can". I'm not convinced it was a fully thought through plan though and he had had quite a lot of alcohol at the time. He seemed convinced it was in the best interests of the UK and USA to act soon in any case.

He's democrat, so I assume there are more extreme view points out there amongst the deep south republicans.

Lollius Urbicus
21st May 12, 08:37 AM
The Chinese elite have far too much to lose by starting a major conflict. They enjoy their European penthouses, shopping trips to Knightsbridge and kids IV league education far too much to jeopardise it.

Spade: The Real Snake
21st May 12, 10:46 AM
kung fu doesn't work on the streets and we possess a nation of TapouT-wearing super-soldiers.

OZZ
21st May 12, 11:25 AM
You guys are all just re stating the obvious.
Why would the Russians want to participate in the RIMPAC ? It doesn't seem to make sense strategically to join a show of force that will incense their Chinese neighbors.
I guess Russia may not be very fond of the idea of being supplanted as the 2nd superpower by the sick men of Asia. Maybe that's part of it too.

If anyone needs to be concerned about the Chinese its the Taiwanese and the Japanese.

Angry Mandrill
21st May 12, 01:35 PM
You guys are all just re stating the obvious.
Why would the Russians want to participate in the RIMPAC ? It doesn't seem to make sense strategically to join a show of force that will incense their Chinese neighbors.
I guess Russia may not be very fond of the idea of being supplanted as the 2nd superpower by the sick men of Asia. Maybe that's part of it too.


cuz russia has no chance alone against china. in 2010, china had 160 million males ages 20-35, ie, fighting age. russia has 150 million people total.

cuz russia's all about keeping potential rivals down to make their own situation better. just like any other country.

cuz in the far east, thousands of chinese are crossing into russia and building and settling there, effectively implementing a creeping annexation of russian lands. see first paragraph.

elipson
21st May 12, 02:52 PM
Also with China turning into the new world Economic hegemon in the next century, it behooves Russia to cozy up with them in the future. Russia is still a "developing" economy and can massively benefit from Chinese investment, especially in energy sectors, which China is investing in heavily.

Putin is diversifying his potential allies to gain addition insulation from US influence.

OZZ
21st May 12, 03:58 PM
Also with China turning into the new world Economic hegemon in the next century, it behooves Russia to cozy up with them in the future. Russia is still a "developing" economy and can massively benefit from Chinese investment, especially in energy sectors, which China is investing in heavily.

I don't think you even read the link I put up. This is all true, and that is why it doesn't make sense to me for Russia to alienate them by participating in RIMPAC with powers from the West.



Putin is diversifying his potential allies to gain addition insulation from US influence

So why join a naval exercise with the USA in charge that will piss off the Chinese ?

OZZ
21st May 12, 04:03 PM
cuz in the far east, thousands of chinese are crossing into russia and building and settling there, effectively implementing a creeping annexation of russian lands.


I can certainly envision it, because the Chinese are ' settling ' all over the goddamn globe.
This is the type of answer I am looking for . But do you have anything to back it up , or is it just speculation on your part ?

Lollius Urbicus
21st May 12, 04:11 PM
People assume Russia and China are BFFs, but in the early modern period they have consistently clashed as each other tried to expand it to the same Central Asian and Siberian space.

For the majority of the last century China and Russia have been frosty if not outright hostile to each other.

Remember Nixon meeting Mao?

That was part of a repositioning by China away from the 'Socialist Imperialist' Russia.

They had a détente post Mao and the fall of the USSR, but détente between historic rivals does not BFFs make.

Its like the détente between Britain and France we may sometimes act in each others interests and there will be period of warmth. However, a traditional frostiness and antipathy born out of a history of frostiness and antipathy will no doubt remain.

OZZ
21st May 12, 04:15 PM
What is the level of Chinese investment/trade like in GB ?

Spade: The Real Snake
21st May 12, 04:21 PM
they are in ur theaturz poppin' ur korn (http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/21/business/china-amc-wanda-theater/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)

Lollius Urbicus
21st May 12, 04:27 PM
What is the level of Chinese investment/trade like in GB ?
UK Parliament paper on FDI into the UK from 1970-2010.

Ignore your computer the file is safe it comes from the UK parliament, can't get a direct link unfortunately.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CH4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.uk%2Fbriefing-papers%2FSN01828.pdf&ei=uLK6T-TEGsrO8QP74LTFCg&usg=AFQjCNFsQp6mhMVCAjiynRTPRTIBA20QTw&sig2=dEPrauGRmQf8Yvw99K8z5A

Angry Mandrill
21st May 12, 05:29 PM
I can certainly envision it, because the Chinese are ' settling ' all over the goddamn globe.
This is the type of answer I am looking for . But do you have anything to back it up , or is it just speculation on your part ?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=russian+far+east+china+creeping+annexation#seen

Keith
21st May 12, 06:32 PM
Americans using the kit couldn't tell their arse from their elbow if you gave them a map. So maybe it comes out about even at the end.
What do you mean by this?

Lollius Urbicus
21st May 12, 06:37 PM
What do you mean by this?
I mean the American military is one of, if not the best equipped in the world. However, its one of the worst trained and draws upon the one of the most spectacularly useless populace.

Its quite staggering how the US spends money and lives on military projects, but ends up with shit all to show for it.

Spade: The Real Snake
21st May 12, 06:51 PM
I mean the American military is one of, if not the best equipped in the world. However, its one of the worst trained and draws upon the one of the most spectacularly useless populace.

Its quite staggering how the US spends money and lives on military projects, but ends up with shit all to show for it.
If we could just do the dirty work without CNN broadcasting the details to the tongue-clucking of all of Europe, all would be better

Keith
22nd May 12, 04:43 AM
its one of the worst trained
Worst trained in what aspect? The military is its own micro society with doctors, lawyers, engineers, technicians, cooks, administration, and even troops who engage in combat.

I'm assuming you are referring to the combat troops. What part of their training is lacking? Are they ineffective in combat? If so, I'm sure you can cite a large number of tactical defeats, where American troops have been driven from the battlefield due to their poor training and stupidity.

Or you may be talking about the strategic leadership (you do know the difference between strategy and tactics, right?)

draws upon the one of the most spectacularly useless populace
That sounds like you're talking about the troops at large though.

OZZ
22nd May 12, 11:46 AM
Article?
Statistics?

We won the cold war bitch! REAGAN! USA!

I find it amusing when Americans claim to have 'won' the Cold War. So what exactly does that mean ?
- The USA spent more money on nukes than the USSR did
- The USSR went bankrupt
- Communist ideals were rebuked and Marxist economics exposed as flawed
But look at what the victory eventually cost :
- the USA assumed its position as the sole military superpower, spending trillions over a few decades, and is now a bankrupt nation living on credit and intimidation.
Simplistic, but in nutshell that about sums things up.

Spade: The Real Snake
22nd May 12, 11:58 AM
I find it amusing when Americans claim to have 'won' the Cold War. So what exactly does that mean ?
- The USA spent more money on nukes than the USSR did
- The USSR went bankrupt
- Communist ideals were rebuked and Marxist economics exposed as flawed
But look at what the victory eventually cost :
- the USA assumed its position as the sole military superpower, spending trillions over a few decades, and is now a bankrupt nation living on credit and intimidation.
Simplistic, but in nutshell that about sums things up.

All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.

Vieux Normand
22nd May 12, 02:14 PM
You other countries have paid for all this weaponry I now have.

Just try to collect on those debts now, suckers!

Madgrenade
23rd May 12, 04:27 AM
hehe heres my humble synopsis as to why China will always be strategially weaker vs U.S and any talk of a threat to USA is lol and silly.

China vs USA
1 strategic carrier: Green. vs 11 Strategic carriers, veteran.

Main industrial centres vs Main industrial centers spread out more.
focused, coastal, easily vs Not easily hit from Pacific
hit from Pacific

Defences Defences
Non existant vs Rocky mountains
Great wall on wrong side vs Bigger and longer and spikier than great wall
Land forces land anywhere vs Land forces must take el paso

So dont shit your pants cos of the chinese yet... Theyre hardly gonna invade and even if they do they got a hole lotta 'mercans to wade through before they can plant a flag in DoC
Not to mention mountains and deserts. Wheres the us flag could be tied to a javelin thrown off the edge of a carrier and still hit Beijing.

More likely the Chinese are shitting themselves about YOU!

Yiktin Voxbane
23rd May 12, 07:03 AM
When China is ready, the world will see the *Mother-of-all-ZERGS!*

Sometimes, if you throw enough bodies at a problem, that problem can be overcome, but they won't get you that way . The way of the future is Cyber attacks (ASL?) , No , not robots .....instead we'll all be slain by a living wall of 1's & 0's ..

Madgrenade
23rd May 12, 01:10 PM
Yeh but as we all know zerg rush is a strat for the early game.

As to the ruskies participating in naval exercises with US and Canada vs China instead of asking why they are participating more pertinant question to ask would be why wouldn't they participate?

Reason for participating

1) Crews actually training rather than sitting around drinking vodka.

2) It would be churlish to refuse such an invitation.

3) Chance to see American fleet up close, note size and disposition.

4) Russia could give a fuck less what China thinks. Russians love an invasion. They just wait 'till winter then declare victory.*

5) Why not.

*Srsly if you are an army officer, and your superior seriously starts contemplating invading Russia, pull out your sidearm, put it against his head, pull the trigger. It's more humane that way.

Cullion
23rd May 12, 03:12 PM
The Mongols succesfully invaded what we now call Russia.
Vikings too.

OZZ
23rd May 12, 04:38 PM
The Mongols succesfully invaded what we now call Russia.
Vikings too.

The Mongols kicked everyone's ass..cuz horsemanship.
Russia hasn't been soundly thrashed on their home turf in a long time.
I wouldn't want to get stuck there as part of an invading army in the winter time.

Madgrenade
23rd May 12, 06:16 PM
The Mongols invaded parts of what we now call Russia, but the natural course of their campaign led them into more fertile, southern land. Checked by heavy horse in Hungary.

The vikings are the original norsemen, so would have been well equiped to handle the cold. Not that they would have encountered much organised resistance back in them days. More a settlement movement than an invasion.

In modern history the fastest way to waste an army is to send it to Russia. Much better to send a charasmatic infiltrator...

Don't forget what colours the Russians fly. Red, white and blue.

OZZ
28th June 12, 11:03 AM
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/china-starts-combat-ready-patrols-disputed-seas-104711402.html

First, assert control of the China Sea..then Taiwan ??

Yiktin Voxbane
29th June 12, 12:00 AM
Inch by inch ,

Step by step ........

OZZ
28th October 12, 06:30 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20083309
Article about multiculturalism and prejudice in Chinese society.

Personally, I have found a good number of the Chinese people I have met to be pretty prejudicial. Especially towards black people.
Most of the interaction I have had with Chinese people has been through work ( international students) or through martial arts.
I know that the ESL schools over there will not hire black people either.
I had a fling with a gorgeous Chinese girl many years ago named Bi Lei Lu, and although we had a good time together, I knew damn well she wouldn't even dream of taking a white man home to meet her parents.

Vieux Normand
29th October 12, 10:25 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20083309
Article about multiculturalism and prejudice in Chinese society.

Personally, I have found a good number of the Chinese people I have met to be pretty prejudicial. Especially towards black people.
Most of the interaction I have had with Chinese people has been through work ( international students) or through martial arts.
I know that the ESL schools over there will not hire black people either.
I had a fling with a gorgeous Chinese girl many years ago named Bi Lei Lu, and although we had a good time together, I knew damn well she wouldn't even dream of taking a white man home to meet her parents.

The Han consider themselves quite exceptional, as do the 'chosen people' in their yarmulkes, various and sundry American-exceptionalism proponents and others, each in their own way and for their own reasons.

Find people who don't consider themselves in some way exceptional--they're exceptional.

Cullion
29th October 12, 03:22 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20083309
Article about multiculturalism and prejudice in Chinese society.

Personally, I have found a good number of the Chinese people I have met to be pretty prejudicial. Especially towards black people.
Most of the interaction I have had with Chinese people has been through work ( international students) or through martial arts.
I know that the ESL schools over there will not hire black people either.
I had a fling with a gorgeous Chinese girl many years ago named Bi Lei Lu, and although we had a good time together, I knew damn well she wouldn't even dream of taking a white man home to meet her parents.

I know quite a few white English guys married to Chinese girls, including an English guy who's married to a mainland chinese diplomat's daughter. Not all Han chinese think that way. Have you considered that she kept kept you a secret, not because you were white, but because you had a criminal background and that she thought of you as her 'piece of rough' ?

In most nations black people are treated like dirt, the western nations with their enlightenment values and almost unique sense of guilt at injustices commited by their ancestors are unusual in that regard.

Robot Jesus
29th October 12, 04:28 PM
I once dated a girl from china. She told me that if I ever went there I would be treated like a rock star, because I look just like the people in Hollywood.

OZZ
29th October 12, 06:50 PM
Have you considered that she kept kept you a secret, not because you were white, but because you had a criminal background and that she thought of you as her 'piece of rough' ?

Not possible in this case, I dated her when I was working as international student adviser and she had no knowledge of my checkered past. Although she did know I was a boxer, which turned her on.
She was using me for sex and essay assistance.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th October 12, 07:32 PM
She must have been desperate on both fronts


Sent by telekinesis via Cerebro

OZZ
29th October 12, 07:38 PM
She was thoroughly satisfed on both fronts by the time OZZ was through with her.


Sent by telekinesis via Cerebro

fixed

I'll bet she still thinks about me going down on her when she is having sex with whatever pencil-dick, chinaman CEO she married.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th October 12, 07:57 PM
Yeah OZZ!!!!


Sent by telekinesis via Cerebro

OZZ
25th November 12, 04:12 PM
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/china-lands-first-jet-aircraft-083334869.html

Someone once told me the Chinese couldn't be taken seriously from a military standpoint because they had no aircraft carriers.
Not the case anymore.

Vieux Normand
25th November 12, 05:24 PM
I'll bet she still thinks about me going down on her when she is having sex with whatever pencil-dick, chinaman CEO she married.

Who would go try going down on a chick when some other guy's already fucking her?

OZZ would, that's who.

So...who'd you get more of a taste from, OZZ? AC/DC-swallowing as well?

OZZ
25th November 12, 06:14 PM
Who would go try going down on a chick when some other guy's already fucking her?

OZZ would, that's who.

So...who'd you get more of a taste from, OZZ? AC/DC-swallowing as well?

Strange that this is what you would take away from my post...it causes one to wonder at your own sexual preferences and/or proficiencies.
I am guessing you have an AOK in butt-plugging.

Vieux Normand
25th November 12, 07:08 PM
I am guessing you have an AOK in butt-plugging.

Yeah, OZZ, that's right: "Vieux Normand" is French for "NoB".

Actually, "NoB" is plenty French as it is.

EDIT: Meanwhile, on the old Russian-turned-Han "aircraft carrier" thing, some old Japanese want to talk to you about a solution--they say it worked on a number of American warships. Apparently, you get to be a pilot! They'll be in touch.