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View Full Version : Sustainability - more than just climate change



Craigypooh
26th April 12, 06:51 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17829665

Interesting article - the West needs to consume less and Africa needs to breed less. Seemed pretty sane and balanced to me but I'd like to hear if there are some alternative views here.

It's based on a report from a group of experts at the Royal Society, chaired by the guy who led the UK part of the human genome project.

Cullion
26th April 12, 07:09 AM
More of the same Malthusian guff where technocratic 'authorities' acting well outside their area of expertise use hazy methodology to make political recommendations.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th April 12, 07:21 AM
Resources are finite on this rock that much should be evident to even the simplest of people.

Cullion
26th April 12, 07:24 AM
The physical volume of resources and amount of energy available from the sun are both finite, but human ingenuity is not. You shouldn't take these reports seriously. It's not scientific just because the people asked to write the report have expertise in other scientific fields.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th April 12, 07:55 AM
To truely accomplish a global revolution of higher expectations then the resources of this planet are not enough.

Cullion
26th April 12, 08:07 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Zf8PH1YIXjE/Ss3h9RgNyVI/AAAAAAAAAW0/D2nBgbrlJH8/s400/save+the+planet+by+leavint+it.jpg

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th April 12, 08:13 AM
WORD!

Lollius Urbicus
26th April 12, 08:14 AM
“Civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.” - George Wald, Harvard Biologist speaking on Earth Day 1970.

Its now 2012, Civilization is still here and is making progress in leaps and bounds.

“Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make. The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.” - Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University biologist speaking on Earth Day 1970.

In 1970 the Earth's population was roughly 3.5 billion, today its 6 billion. In 1970 37% of the population in the developing world was malnourished, today its only 16%.

Just as those eminent scientists making alarmist Malthusian predictions in 1970 have been proved spectacularly wrong by the passage of time. So will those eminent scientists making alarmist Malthusian predictions today.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th April 12, 08:19 AM
How many well fed healthy humans do you think the planet can sustain Lolli?

Lollius Urbicus
26th April 12, 08:41 AM
How many well fed healthy humans do you think the planet can sustain Lolli?
Potentially an infinite amount as long as we continue to find technological solutions to resource problems, which we have, consistently for the entirety of human history.

We could fit everybody on the planet, now, into the state of Texas at a population density of that of New York. Or We could fit 3.5 billion into Texas at a population density of London.

We're not short of space.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th April 12, 08:45 AM
Sounds great.

Lollius Urbicus
26th April 12, 08:47 AM
Sorry to burst your doom mongering bubble.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th April 12, 08:48 AM
I'm not doom mongering.

I think the technological breakthroughs that you are hoping for are migration into near space and not cramping humanity into ever smaller and smaller spaces.

Lollius Urbicus
26th April 12, 08:56 AM
I'm not doom mongering.

I think the technological breakthroughs that you are hoping for are migration into near space and not cramping humanity into ever smaller and smaller spaces.
Well given that a New York density Texas mega city would leave the continents of Europe, Asia, South America and Africa completely uninhabited as well as leaving around 80% of continental North America uninhabited.

I don't think we need to squeeze people into smaller and smaller places. The Earth is so huge its just not going to be an issue.

The UN predictions have population growth tapering down over the course of the century to reach about 10 billion.

As more countries grow richer through the spread of free markets and capitalism there is an initial population boom as more children survive, due to a decrease in poor medical care and disease. Then it flattens out as increased education follows increased wealth and people have fewer children with women entering the workplace and thus not spending 20 years constantly pumping out babies and families plan to make themselves smaller to conserve their new found wealth.

Lollius Urbicus
26th April 12, 09:24 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17829665

Interesting article - the West needs to consume less and Africa needs to breed less. Seemed pretty sane and balanced to me but I'd like to hear if there are some alternative views here.

It's based on a report from a group of experts at the Royal Society, chaired by the guy who led the UK part of the human genome project.
Btw here's a slightly long, but pretty epic demolition of that paper and its proposed solution:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/timworstall/100016684/the-royal-societys-appallingly-bad-report-on-population-and-consumption/

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th April 12, 09:30 AM
That sounds better.