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Feryk
28th March 12, 02:03 PM
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Hooked+brothels/6370512/story.html



This week's Ontario Court of Appeal ruling on prostitution will make brothels legal within a year in Ontario, subject to an inevitable appeal by the Harper government to the Supreme Court.

The justices properly concluded that those who work in the world's oldest profession have the same constitutional right to security of the person as everyone else, something they currently do not have in a hypocritical system that says prostitution is legal, but forces its practitioners into dark alleys where they are exposed to monstrous predators like Robert Pickton.

The ruling, however, is naive. It presumes that prostitutes, male or female, will operate their businesses like walk-in clinics, presumably with all the licensing prerequisites of any business, such as indoor smoking bans and wheelchair accessible washrooms. The grim reality is that prostitution is mostly practised by the drug-addicted, the mentally ill and the desperately poor. For these, a licensed brothel will matter little.

Solicitation remains banned, meaning no advertising or "Hey sailor" come-ons, and exploitation by pimps also remains illegal. But living off the avails of prostitution will be legal as long as there is no exploitation or abuse, allowing prostitutes to hire security and support staff, such as maids and telephone reservation clerks. We doubt that someone hooked on crystal meth will have a business plan that advanced.

It is, however, a ruling that acknowledges the denial of a basic right. Prostitution will never be stamped out, and to ensure the safety of those who work in dehumanizing circumstances is a laudable goal.

Yet it is also laudable to encourage prostitutes to seek healthier alternatives, which may be hindered by a legalized brothel system. We thus must repeat what we wrote in 2010, when the original ruling by Ontario Superior Court Judge Susan Himel that precipitated this week's appeal decision was first rendered:

"If Himel's ruling stands, society will be diminished by a system that approves of the commodification of human beings through regulation. Sweden has taken the opposite approach to Canada. It holds "johns" - the customers - criminally responsible, rather than prostitutes. . . . Sweden does not criminalize the sale of sex, it criminalizes the purchase, and actively helps those caught in the sex trade to get out." A July 2010 report on the then 10-year-old Swedish model found that it has reduced human trafficking and organized crime, and did not drive the trade further underground.

The Ontario ruling became a sideline election issue this week when Premier Alison Redford, a former Alberta Solicitor General who opposes legalized brothels, trotted out a nearly 10-year-old column by the Wildrose party's libertarian leader Danielle Smith, who advocated red light districts for Calgary on these pages in 2003.

Smith now says it is a federal issue. That may be true, but if a future Supreme Court ruling backs the Ontario decision, it is one that has sober implications for all provinces, including Alberta.

Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald


Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Hooked+brothels/6370512/story.html#ixzz1qRK8kW64

This issue comes up from time to time. I believe it should be regulated, monitored, and sanctioned. I also believe that a legitimate prostitute can run a healthy, viable business without organized crime being involved. But that's just me.

And no, I've never been to one, nor do I intend to.

Spade: The Real Snake
28th March 12, 02:08 PM
After all Cracky's wild stories, I'm holding out for Kamloops wimminz

Feryk
28th March 12, 02:11 PM
You mean the ones that share the family tooth?

Robot Jesus
28th March 12, 02:16 PM
And no, I've never been to one, nor do I intend to.

you say that now, as do I, but what about at 3 AM and a fifth of scotch?


I firmly believe I will never remember going to a brothel.

Feryk
28th March 12, 02:23 PM
The point is whether or not prostitution should be regulated and legalized, turned into a trade of sorts.

I'm in favor, but I'd like to hear from Lebell, cuz' is legal in Holland.

Has the tiny nation been overrun with hookers? Is there still a lot of illegal prostitution? Are drugs/crime a problem still associated with prostitution?

SoulMechanic
28th March 12, 03:33 PM
Bitches got 99 problems and a pimp aint one.

Lollius Urbicus
28th March 12, 03:38 PM
The point is whether or not prostitution should be regulated and legalized, turned into a trade of sorts.

I'm in favor, but I'd like to hear from Lebell, cuz' is legal in Holland.

Has the tiny nation been overrun with hookers? Is there still a lot of illegal prostitution? Are drugs/crime a problem still associated with prostitution?
Lots of unscrupulous Eastern European gangs trafficking girls under the pretence of working as a maid of cleaner.

Shengen means its super easy to transport them and the continent is so unequal that its still possibly to lure poor girls from villages and big cities with fake offers of work in the North Western states.

That's unlikely to be replicated in Canada unless there's some kind of underground slut road set up from Mexico, which is considerably logistically harder I would suspect.

Feryk
28th March 12, 03:54 PM
What is 'Shengen'?

And we have enough problems now with Chinese snakeheads smuggling girls into the country then forcing them to work in massage parlors. My hope is that regulation and regular screening will help avoid this problem.

Lollius Urbicus
28th March 12, 04:02 PM
What is 'Shengen'?

Schengen, I mistyped, basically an collection of countries in the EU who effectively have no border controls once inside the area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement)So as you can guess this makes it super easy to move people around illegally. Its also what helps prostitutes from West Africa trafficked all over Europe, because they smuggle them across the med in Spain or Italy and from there can basically move them to anywhere in the Schengen area.

Feryk
28th March 12, 04:11 PM
Anytime there is an incentive to traffic in people, you have to assume someone will develop the infrastructure to do it.

I think it happens to a much smaller extent here. But it still happens.

resolve
28th March 12, 11:26 PM
Should be noted that the red-light district in Amsterdam is packed full of human trafficking victims, mostly from Eastern Europe, who only know enough of the language (Dutch or English) to give prices for different sex acts.

The guy I know who's been doing the docus on it said that while not all of the brothels are like that... the problem is endemic to legalized prostitution.

Then there's other societies like Thailand where having a baby girl is considered a huge blessing because it means your family doesn't have to work because you can sell her to a legal brothel in the city and get continuous revenue off of her "trade". They are slaves via a debt and honor system rather than one of shackles and violence.

There were times where those docu guys got so upset about it they tried to pay off the debts of the girls... but the families fought them to get their girls back into the brothels. And many times the girls would go back willingly because they knew they were providing for their families.


Even in the USA where some states have legalized prostitution and brothels there are constant findings of girls only around 16 years old (either lying about their age or in some cases legally being pimped out by their parents) starting up a life of prostitution because it's easier and gives them more money than learning a trade or going to college.

Robot Jesus
29th March 12, 12:00 AM
I don't thinks it's endemic to legalized prostitution, more that it's due to lack of regulation.

This seems to be working well enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_%28brothel%29

Cullion
29th March 12, 07:22 AM
I have not yet seen a criminal justice system capable of stamping out prostitution, even in the most severe law enforcement/religious regimes.

I think we should aim to keep it away from where people are trying to raise families, and to try and keep the working girls (and boys) safe from disease and violence.

Ajamil
29th March 12, 12:36 PM
I thought the Swedish idea was a great punishment system, although it probably leads to a similar fear that it can be held over a man's head like a drunken assent leading to "date rape."

I agree it isn't something so terribly wrong there needs to be a legal ban on it. Still, I never liked the "you can't stamp it out so legalize it" argument. I mean, what criminal justice system has stamped out murder?

elipson
29th March 12, 12:54 PM
There is a pretty big difference. Making prostitution illegal also makes it more dangerous, despite the laws being intended to protect the vulnerable. Murder is kind of a different paradigm.

OZZ
29th March 12, 01:14 PM
Lots of unscrupulous Eastern European gangs trafficking girls under the pretence of working as a maid of cleaner.

Strippers too..
Some of the more unscrupulous ' managers ' get the girls over here to dance, then systematically get them into hooking, addicted to drugs and wear them out.

Stamping out prostitution is never going to happen. It should be regulated and kept as far away from children and families as possible, but it should be safe for the women. I'm not sure if I would want a red-light district like they have in Amsterdam in my city..or even in Toronto.
They should do it like it is in Nevada, where they have legal whore-houses out in the boonies, but not in municipalities.


I agree it isn't something so terribly wrong there needs to be a legal ban on it. Still, I never liked the "you can't stamp it out so legalize it" argument. I mean, what criminal justice system has stamped out murder?

Prostitution and murder are not even comparable, that's apples and oranges.
Prostitution is basically a victimless crime, as long as its consensual and the women are HIV -free - nobody gets hurt.
Its the drugs, violence by pimps and other bullshit surrounding prostitution that police are more concerned with than the act of selling sex itself.

Ajamil
29th March 12, 01:19 PM
I'm not comparing the two crimes, I'm saying the idea that we can't get rid of it therefore it should be legalized and regulated is a bad argument because there are plenty of things we can't get rid of that make no sense to legalize and regulate. Murder is one, prostitution is not.

And what's wrong with operating a brothel under the pretense of making amateur porn movies? Except instead of amateur women and professional males, have professional women and video the amateur males.

Vieux Normand
29th March 12, 02:02 PM
I have not yet seen a criminal justice system capable of stamping out prostitution, even in the most severe law enforcement/religious regimes.

I think we should aim to keep it away from where people are trying to raise families, and to try and keep the working girls (and boys) safe from disease and violence.

Look what you did, Cthulhion.

Feryk denied he'd ever go to a brothel...and then you go and mention 'working boys'.

Yes, you timed it that way on purpose. Yes you did.

Feryk
29th March 12, 02:56 PM
Aww, Vieux. If you wanted to flirt with me, you didn't need to bring Cullion into this.:smile:

Spade: The Real Snake
29th March 12, 03:05 PM
He's not flirting.
He wants you to share your boys with him.

Feryk
29th March 12, 03:09 PM
My boys? I have boys?

Or is this some kind of oblique reference to my balls?

Cullion
29th March 12, 03:52 PM
Look what you did, Cthulhion.

Feryk denied he'd ever go to a brothel...and then you go and mention 'working boys'.

Yes, you timed it that way on purpose. Yes you did.

I had a self image you've ruined. In it, I was a subtle and clever man.

Adouglasmhor
29th March 12, 05:41 PM
The point is whether or not prostitution should be regulated and legalized, turned into a trade of sorts.

I'm in favor, but I'd like to hear from Lebell, cuz' is legal in Holland.

Has the tiny nation been overrun with hookers? Is there still a lot of illegal prostitution? Are drugs/crime a problem still associated with prostitution?

It's been legal in Britain for many years.
Same Idea as the Cannuk plan, one prossie per premises, they are allowed a maid, no pimps, no heavy advertising.

Cullion
30th March 12, 06:03 AM
I don't think accepting money in return for sex has ever been illegal in the UK. The laws have always been against specific forms of advertising for such a service, or against acting as a 'pimp'.

In practice, it varies from city to city as to how far the local authorities will allow the sex industry to advertise.

Ajamil
30th March 12, 10:09 AM
I want a really strict law enforcement, where any form of sex purchase is illegal and they can arrest women who demand you buy them a drink just to talk with you, or force you to pay for dinner on the third date.

Cullion
30th March 12, 10:41 AM
Agreed. Sex should be about force, not negotiation.

Feryk
30th March 12, 10:56 AM
I think your tongue is permanently stuck in your cheek, Cullion.

Spade: The Real Snake
30th March 12, 11:10 AM
I think your tongue is permanently stuck in your cheek, Cullion.
If he had his way, it would be stuck permanently elsewhere.
By force.

Feryk
30th March 12, 11:12 AM
There are plenty of countries where that shit is normal. He's just living in the wrong one.

Spade: The Real Snake
30th March 12, 11:20 AM
Canada, for one.
What do you call a Canucklestanian woman with a black eye?

Feryk
30th March 12, 11:22 AM
I dunno, 'Stupid for standing in front of the television during the Stanley Cup?'

Cuz then the bitch deserves it, right Ozz?

Spade: The Real Snake
30th March 12, 11:26 AM
a fast learner.

What do you tell a Canucklestanian woman with two black eyes?

Feryk
30th March 12, 11:31 AM
I don't know, the opposing centre?

Spade: The Real Snake
30th March 12, 11:37 AM
Nothing.
She's been told twice, already.

Feryk
30th March 12, 11:42 AM
You are a baaaaad man, Snake.

Ajamil
30th March 12, 12:23 PM
Agreed. Sex should be about force, not negotiation.Force is so one dimensional. I think the term "physical persuasion" leaves seduction on the table.

nihilist
30th March 12, 12:47 PM
What do all battered women have in common?


Bitches just don't listen.

nihilist
30th March 12, 12:52 PM
Yesterday I was installing a microwave for a lesbian.
When I unboxed it, she said "Wow, that's huge! you could fit a baby in there!"

"Twins", I replied.

Spade: The Real Snake
30th March 12, 12:55 PM
What do women and Slinkies have in common?


You just can't help but smile when they tumble down the stairs

nihilist
30th March 12, 01:03 PM
Q: How can you tell if your wife is dead?
A: The sex is the same but the dishes pile up.

Spade: The Real Snake
30th March 12, 01:07 PM
Why are women's feet so small?
So they can stand closer to the stove.

Harpy
31st March 12, 12:54 AM
Q: What do you do when a man is gasping for breath and calling out your name in bed?
A: Hold the pillow down longer.

Harpy
31st March 12, 12:56 AM
Q: How can you tell if your husband is dead?
A: The sex is the same but you get the tv remote to yourself.

Cullion
31st March 12, 03:58 AM
Lily, why don't you just leave the poor guy ?

Harpy
31st March 12, 05:43 AM
Q: How do you get your husband to stop biting his nails?A: Make him wear shoes

nihilist
31st March 12, 11:17 AM
Q: how do you know when Lily is typing something unfunny?

A: Look to see if her fingers are moving.

Robot Jesus
31st March 12, 01:05 PM
I find this casual attitude towards domestic abuse troubling, can't people at least put on a tie before giving their girl what she has coming?

nihilist
31st March 12, 01:14 PM
I always fashion a slipknot before putting the tie around her neck.

nihilist
31st March 12, 01:17 PM
No wonder we never get any new members.

They read shit like this and think we're serious.

Harpy
31st March 12, 03:09 PM
I thought the taut Swede body you had was the one in the basement.

Harpy
31st March 12, 03:13 PM
Q: How do you know if Taut Swede is coming?
A: You don't because you're unconscious.

Spade: The Real Snake
31st March 12, 04:41 PM
I find this casual attitude towards domestic abuse troubling, can't people at least put on a tie before giving their girl what she has coming?

And what would that be?
Plankton?


Sent by telekinesis via Cerebro

Vieux Normand
1st April 12, 06:43 PM
No wonder we never get any new members.

Somebody's waiting for a new member. Why would that be?

nihilist
1st April 12, 08:08 PM
Somebody's waiting for a new member. Why would that be? Maybe word got around about my girth.