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View Full Version : Wolesale Elephant Slaughter In Cameroon..



OZZ
18th February 12, 12:31 PM
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/poachers-kill-200-elephants-cameroon-killing-spree-144439805.html

Ok..now I'm pissed off.
The Asian alternative medicine market is fueling these killings, among many others. If the Chinese government gave a damn, which we know they don't they would start enforcing the laws they supposedly have in place to force the street vendors who peddle in ivory, tiger bones and bear gall bladders to close down.
Sure, its easy to blame the poachers and the governments of these impossibly corrupt and inefficiently governed African nations. But its the demand for these things IN CHINA that fuels it all..
If groups like Greenpeace and PETA really want to do some good, they need to start doing something about the source of the problem.
Six government soldiers in Chad were murdered when they tried to keep the poachers from smuggling the ivory over the border. I hope they managed to kill a couple of the poachers in the firefight.

Ajamil
21st February 12, 07:52 AM
I sometimes wonder if we should just resign ourselves to the end of megafauna. I don't understand it - ivory isn't even that pretty. I'm going to laugh my ass off if ivory is ever shown to have actual medicinal use, though.

And why are so many of OZZ's threads unreplied to? OZZes is good posts!

OZZ
21st February 12, 11:37 AM
People get tired of my animal posts so they are largely ignored.

Commodore Pipes
21st February 12, 11:55 AM
I like OZZ's posts, too, but I usually don't have anything else to add.

Craigypooh
21st February 12, 12:05 PM
I sometimes wonder if we should just resign ourselves to the end of megafauna. I don't understand it - ivory isn't even that pretty. I'm going to laugh my ass off if ivory is ever shown to have actual medicinal use, though

Even if it does then you'll still be better of taking the active ingredients in pill form, rather than consuming ivory which will have an unknown provenance and a highly variable concentration of the active ingredient.

Not many people chew willow bark rather than taking a couple of aspirin.

Syntactical Disruptorize
21st February 12, 12:59 PM
If OZZ did Monkey News, he'd get more comments.

OZZ
21st February 12, 01:50 PM
When it comes to news like this, I'm more concerned about people reading the stories/articles I link up than getting responses because my primary aim is to make people aware.

Vieux Normand
21st February 12, 03:20 PM
When it comes to news like this, I'm more concerned about people reading the stories/articles I link up than getting responses because my primary aim is to make people aware.

People would have to have been born and raised in a bunker not to be aware of events such as this. Humans are aware. Most of them just don't give a shit because it doesn't directly affect them.

Like any other species (in our case, a predator-by-choice omnivore), the vast majority of humans act to change only matters which directly affect them in a way they see as immediately detrimental.

How many "civilized-country" folk would consume what most of today's urbanised humans eat if they suddenly had to slaughter captive prey-animals themselves? How many elderly Chinese men would be desperate enough for hard-ons that they'd go into wild and kill their own fauna--and have to make the "medicine" themselves from the carcasses?

Others do the dirty work. That way, most of us can pretend to be something "nicer" than the brutal predatory species we actually are. It wasn't always that way: once, things were more honest. If you want "honest" today, take school-age children for a visit to a livestock farm--and then have them follow the lambs, pigs, whatever through mass-transit to the abattoir so they can see things to the end. Hell, make 'em participate.

We'll end up continuing to cause this latest mass-extinction because most of us are, by nature, too unthinkingly-predatory to do otherwise. We are clever with technology, but that just aids us to be even more the deadly beast that we are.

"Between beast and angel?" Too much of the former, not enough of the latter.

That's why slaughters of megafauna should come as a shock to no one: they are perfectly consistent with human nature. That is neither celebration nor lament: just an observation.

resolve
21st February 12, 03:27 PM
I just think it's insane how they take the tusks and leave the carcasses with 2 tons of bush-meat on them... and they have people who are going hungry within 100 miles of there usually.

Craigypooh
21st February 12, 05:05 PM
I just think it's insane how they take the tusks and leave the carcasses with 2 tons of bush-meat on them... and they have people who are going hungry within 100 miles of there usually.

They're poaching. If the rangers catch them they'll shoot them (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11666641).

Would it be particularly sane to hang around butchering the meat and selling it to starving locals? Particularly as more than 90% of the value of the animal will be in the tusks.

Syntactical Disruptorize
21st February 12, 05:07 PM
Is it outright illegal to hunt elephants in Cameroon, or is it permitted under certain circumstances?

OZZ
21st February 12, 08:32 PM
People would have to have been born and raised in a bunker not to be aware of events such as this. Humans are aware. Most of them just don't give a shit because it doesn't directly affect them.

Obvious and true..nonetheless, I think its a good idea to post up news like this because at some point, perhaps those who 'don't give a shit' may be shaken out of their apathy.
Elephants are, in relative terms, not in as perilous a position regarding extinction when compared with, for example, Siberian tigers. But when you draw attention to the fact that hundreds of these creatures were slaughtered due to human greed it can elicit a response even in those who are quite far removed.

OZZ
21st February 12, 08:40 PM
Is it outright illegal to hunt elephants in Cameroon, or is it permitted under certain circumstances?

Illegal.
There are very few, if any, elephant herds that reside outside territory designated as 'national park ' in Africa. When they do wander outside the borders, I think the rules vary in different countries.
Or whatever passes for 'rules' in Africa.

Syntactical Disruptorize
21st February 12, 10:01 PM
Illegal.
There are very few, if any, elephant herds that reside outside territory designated as 'national park ' in Africa. When they do wander outside the borders, I think the rules vary in different countries.
Or whatever passes for 'rules' in Africa.Well, that's probably not a fixable problem then. Too bad. Handled correctly, this could be both profitable for the countries and helpful for the elephants.

Craigypooh
22nd February 12, 08:39 AM
Are you suggesting that legalising hunting of elephants could solve the problem of mass slaughter by poachers?

Lollius Urbicus
22nd February 12, 09:06 AM
Are you suggesting that legalising hunting of elephants could solve the problem of mass slaughter by poachers?
Of course, because then people would have an incentive to promote herd sustainability to ensure there was sufficient stock to make a profit from organising hunting.

Unfortunately it requires a level of control and monitoring that is probably not capable of being implemented due to lack of government competence or resources to police, support and regulate a hunting industry.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
22nd February 12, 09:10 AM
There is a good case for allowing the Masi to hunt elephants but that would no doubt be abused pretty quickly

Craigypooh
22nd February 12, 09:24 AM
Unfortunately it requires a level of control and monitoring that is probably not capable of being implemented due to lack of government competence or resources to police, support and regulate a hunting industry.

Exactly.

Syntactical Disruptorize
22nd February 12, 11:07 AM
Actually, if you do it right, you can fund the program quite easily. Money isn't the only problem in such a case, but it does help, and not every nation in Africa is in a Zimbabwe-level state of collapse.

Craigypooh
22nd February 12, 11:15 AM
I would have thought they can make more money from tourism than hunting.

Syntactical Disruptorize
22nd February 12, 11:21 AM
I would have thought they can make more money from tourism than hunting.So those two are exclusive, are they. Hm.

I think you'll resist the conclusion on any grounds you can find, though, so I'm not going to waste much time chasing random objections.

OZZ
22nd February 12, 11:25 AM
I think Charles may be thinking along the lines of the annual deer culls that are common in North America.
But the circumstances differ greatly. Elephants are an endangered species, deer are not.

Syntactical Disruptorize
22nd February 12, 11:26 AM
I'm not thinking of deer culls.

OZZ
22nd February 12, 11:35 AM
I'm not thinking of deer culls.

What are you proposing ?
Limited trophy hunting with a price tag ?

Syntactical Disruptorize
22nd February 12, 11:40 AM
What are you proposing ?
Limited trophy hunting with a price tag ?Something like that. The price would have to be high enough to fund the effort, the volume would need to be low enough to encourage the survival of the herds, and you'd need to legalize export of ivory for licensed hunters. Even if this didn't make ivory hunting profitable for the hunter (unlikely, given the prices), I think you'd find a lot of takers.

Certainly an outright prohibition isn't working. There's no incentive to play by the rules, no funding to enforce them. Maybe it's time to try something else.

OZZ
22nd February 12, 11:46 AM
I see your reasoning.
We run programs up here for Big Horns that operate on a price tag basis. Hunters pay huge dollars to shoot them and the money goes towards conservation.

Syntactical Disruptorize
22nd February 12, 11:48 AM
How well does that program work? I've not heard of it, but it sounds like the kind of thing I'm musing about.

Craigypooh
22nd February 12, 01:26 PM
So those two are exclusive, are they. Hm.

I think you'll resist the conclusion on any grounds you can find, though, so I'm not going to waste much time chasing random objections.

My thought (badly phrased) was more that they already have a large tourist industry, which doesn't seem to generate sufficient cash to prevent wholesale slaughter of elephants. I find it hard to believe that they can generate much more by hunting.

It is not an unreasonable thought though that legalising hunting could impact tourism for a given country. If hunting was a massive potential money spinner I would have thought there would be at least a few African countries that would be trying to exploit it.

Syntactical Disruptorize
22nd February 12, 01:30 PM
My thought (badly phrased) was more that they already have a large tourist industry, which doesn't seem to generate sufficient cash to prevent wholesale slaughter of elephants. I find it hard to believe that they can generate much more by hunting.

It is not an unreasonable thought though that legalising hunting could impact tourism for a given country. If hunting was a massive potential money spinner I would have thought there would be at least a few African countries that would be trying to exploit it.i don't think their governments are that well-run, sadly.

Craigypooh
22nd February 12, 01:36 PM
Bribery and corruption will almost certainly create a significant drag on the money making potential of any scheme.

Syntactical Disruptorize
22nd February 12, 01:40 PM
Bribery and corruption will almost certainly create a significant drag on the money making potential of any scheme.Welcome to Africa. If you have a corruption-proof plan that will work better, by all means let us know.

OZZ
22nd February 12, 04:22 PM
How well does that program work? I've not heard of it, but it sounds like the kind of thing I'm musing about.

I guess it depends on who you ask.
I have a back-issue of Canadian Geographic with an article on the province of Alberta's program.
The licences are auctioned off to the very rich..people will pay anywhere form $200,000 to $1 Million dollars for ' tickets' to have a shot at a big horn sheep. Just 30 years ago, the price tag was about $50,000.
One hunter from Arizona spent $1.1 million at auctions in 1998/99. God knows what people are paying now..this article was written in 2002.
One of the problems with the program is the fact that all the hunters (naturally) want to shoot the rams with the biggest horns. So the naturalist's are noticing a steady decline in animals with above-average horns, because their gene pool is being depleted through the hunts. Thus, the entire population is ultimately suffering because the most virile among them are being killed off.
I'll have to pull that issue and re read the article, its been years since I've looked at it.

OZZ
24th March 12, 11:33 AM
Check this out :
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/world-7805482/controversial-filmmaker-s-wild-shots-28704120.html

Spade: The Real Snake
24th March 12, 12:00 PM
I think someone should go over to Africa and flourbomb those big-game hunters.

Oh, wait, they would be fucking shot and left for the jackals and prefer to choose safe targets, like the amply-arsed 'Dash dimbo.


nevermind.