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AAAAAA
29th December 11, 11:11 AM
I think it's from Cullion's find, I'll repost it as I found it a nice quick primer:

http://www.metamute.org/en/content/debt_the_first_five_thousand_years



What follows is a fragment of a much larger project of research on debt and debt money in human history. The first and overwhelming conclusion of this project is that in studying economic history, we tend to systematically ignore the role of violence, the absolutely central role of war and slavery in creating and shaping the basic institutions of what we now call ‘the economy'. What's more, origins matter. The violence may be invisible, but it remains inscribed in the very logic of our economic common sense, in the apparently self-evident nature of institutions that simply would never and could never exist outside of the monopoly of violence - but also, the systematic threat of violence - maintained by the contemporary state.

It's quite interesting how it shows the rebounds between paper/virtual money and gold/silver tangibles following socioeconomical swings.

Cullion
29th December 11, 12:43 PM
It's not from my link and the historical analysis contains some wildly inaccurate statements.

Especially:-

"Credit systems seem to arise, and to become dominant, in periods of relative social peace, across networks of trust, whether created by states or, in most periods, transnational institutions, whilst precious metals replace them in periods characterised by widespread plunder. Predatory lending systems certainly exist at every period, but they seem to have had the most damaging effects in periods when money was most easily convertible into cash."

The author doesn't seem to know anything about the history of the Byzantine Empire which had a sophisticated banking system, and a stable gold-backed currency for 800 years.

He's confused about the difference in economic effect between 'lending money' and 'lending money which you created out of thin air', which is understandable because he doesn't seem to know the first thing about economics or many very basic facts of European history.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th December 11, 01:25 PM
I give u pelt u let me put it anywhere when rotten fruit falls from tree

AAAAAA
29th December 11, 02:27 PM
It's not from my link and the historical analysis contains some wildly inaccurate statements.

he doesn't seem to know the first thing about economics or many very basic facts of European history.

I did like exactly the lack of focus on European history, for a change. Wider dynamics might uncover patterns hidden from an eurocentric perspective.
He's not an economist of course.

Lollius Urbicus
29th December 11, 02:29 PM
I actually thought his attempt to point to the importance of China was good. However, when you're trying to describe 700 years of global history in a few paragraphs you're always going to fail and make poor generalisations, which he did.

Also his citations were lol worthy.

Cullion
29th December 11, 03:26 PM
I did like exactly the lack of focus on European history, for a change. Wider dynamics might uncover patterns hidden from an eurocentric perspective.

Yes, when done by an intelligent analyst who isn't getting his economic history from the back of a cornflake packet.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th December 11, 03:56 PM
The Author:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Graeber

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/28/nyregion/28anarchist.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1325192032-d4hK6NeNxjftDVhO5puKwg

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/occupy-wall-street-welcome-to-the-occupation-20111110

Lollius Urbicus
29th December 11, 04:07 PM
The Author:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Graeber

Damned communists.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th December 11, 04:33 PM
Are anarchists communists?

Lollius Urbicus
29th December 11, 04:42 PM
Are anarchists communists?
I don't really spend much time thinking about how to differentiate between scum.

Cullion
29th December 11, 04:47 PM
He's not an anarchist, he's a communist. But lots of communists call themselves anarchists or 'environmentalists' these days to put some distance between themselves and Stalin.

How do you tell if a anarchist is genuine? Ask him if he thinks taxes are too low. The idea of an anarchist calling for a bigger, better funded state bureaucracy is absurd.

Spade: The Real Snake
29th December 11, 06:02 PM
an anarchist wouldn't be pissy for losing the possibility of a tenured Yale position

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
4th January 12, 08:44 AM
Are anarchists communists?

NO!


I don't really spend much time thinking about how to differentiate between scum.

U smell