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View Full Version : In Saudi Arabia, I know how big your boobs are....



Steve
9th June 11, 03:39 AM
How Fncked is this?

Saudi women eye lingerie shops in battle over jobs


The first thing Dalya does when entering a lingerie shop in Saudi Arabia is scan the area for men after an embarrassing encounter a year ago.

With colorful lace, cotton and sheer bras on display, the 26-year-old vividly remembers when she randomly picked one up to examine it only to be surprised by a male voice saying: "That bra is not your size, you need one two sizes bigger."

It was a salesman trying to be helpful, she discovered, though she was further unnerved when she realized he had correctly estimated her size.

In the ultra conservative Saudi Arabia -- where women have long been discouraged from taking up work in public places that allow male access -- even lingerie shops are still mostly staffed by male employees.

Religious police patrol the streets to ensure adherence to the country's strict segregation laws and to make sure that women, who are also not allowed to drive, are covered in loose black garments (abayas) when they are out in public.

"I was shocked because I realized that the salesman actually scanned my body, even though I was covered in my abaya, and he actually got the right size," said Dalya, whose last name has been withheld to protect her privacy.

"That made me very uncomfortable."

Dalya's discomfort with the state of affairs is a growing concern among Saudi women who are forced to buy their intimate clothing from men in a conservative society where female modesty is paramount.

"Imagine, a (strange) man looking at your underwear. This is very embarrassing... We grew up on modesty and religion. Our private things should not be visible to strangers," said Fatima Qaroob, who launched a campaign last month calling for such salesmen to be replaced by women.

"I felt like I was being stripped naked," she said, recalling an incident when a cashier at a lingerie shop rummaged through items she had selected in search of the price ticket.

However, change in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia does not come easily and Qaroob's "Enough Embarrassment" campaign is not the first attempt to replace salesmen in the country.

Saudi businesses resisted a 2006 government decree urging them to hire only women employees for shops selling intimate female products on the grounds that such a change would bring a rise in costs related to the country's strict rules on segregation.

A boycott by a group of Saudi women against lingerie shops failed to pressure businesses into implementing the 2006 decree because there were no alternative ways of buying underwear.

"If we as women boycotted these stores, what is our alternative? Where are we going to buy from?" Qaroob said.

She has decided that her campaign -- which was launched from Saudi Arabia's second biggest city of Jeddah and has gathered more than 6,300 supporters so far -- will focus on making the changes for businesses easier.

Females make up 9.2 million of Saudi Arabia's 18.5 million people. The Jeddah Chamber of Commerce estimates that women in Saudi Arabia have spent 10 billion Saudi riyals ($2.67 billion) in the past four years on clothing, 17 percent of which was spent on lingerie.

CHANGE DOESN'T COME EASY

Women of all ages are subject to a male "guardianship" system which requires that she show written permission from her guardian -- father, brother, or husband -- in order to travel and, in some areas, in order to work.

Many women work as teachers in female-only schools, a profession sanctioned by the clerics, but there is a growing number of businesswomen, female doctors and young professional women who are trying to break down the barriers.

The country's powerful religious establishment spoke out against a recent labor ministry attempt to hire women as cashiers in some supermarkets, saying the strictures on segregation prohibited women from working in areas in the supermarket that were accessible to men.

Even though the women were stationed in the "family only" sections of the supermarkets, the council of Senior Ulama endorsed a religious edict which objected to the idea on the grounds that the women might have come into contact with some males.

"It is forbidden for a Muslim woman to work in a place that allows mixing with men. They must stay away from places where men congregate and look for other jobs that don't put them in a position for them to be seduced or to cause seduction," the General Presidency of Scholarly Research and Ifta said.

In addition to the challenge of finding qualified female candidates, employers who hire women must also cover their shop display windows to block the view into their stores and hire security during work hours to keep men from entering.

Municipal representatives and the religious police check shop-owners to ensure they adhere to the regulations.

One lingerie store chain, Nayomi, decided to adopt the campaign to hire women. They made all the required changes and opened 20 stores around the kingdom, all staffed by women.

But poor sales owing to a lack of male customers, the high cost of ensuring security, the inability to lure customers with a window display and the reluctance of some women employees to work on late shifts led to financial losses and closure.

Nayomi Sales Manager Homaida Diab also said that in some parts of the country the employment of women was not accepted at all, which lowered sales while adding costs of about 3,000 riyals ($800) a month for each store to hire male security guards.

Diab estimates that Saudis spend over 500 million riyals a year on lingerie and said that despite their eagerness for employment, transportation and social issues in Saudi Arabia made it harder for women to work in the retail environment.

"The circumstances for women to work two shifts were difficult in terms of transportation and there were also social issues that made women less dedicated," he said.

Other managers complained about the decline in the number of customers after men were not allowed entry into the stores and after the display window was blocked.

"We had stores that were staffed by men and when we changed it to women, sales went down significantly. I think the main reason is that they blocked the view into the store," said a brand manager at another shop that adopted the campaign, declining to be named.

Despite the challenges, change is still happening, although at a snail's pace. Nayomi stores in Saudi Arabia are still committed to the campaign of hiring women although they are taking more timid steps.

The Jeddah Chamber of Commerce and Industry (JCCI), on the west coast of Saudi Arabia, estimates that there are 260 lingerie shops in Jeddah, only five of which are staffed by women, and that is believed to be more than in other cities.

"If you look at the women-only shops they are mostly in Jeddah which is more liberal and people are much more educated about labor," Diab said.

He added that, with time, there will be more lingerie shops staffed by women.

"We have a plan to open more female stores. We have a belief that these products are especially for women so it is best to let women deal with them, like the rest of the world does," Diab said.

"We are convinced about the idea and we want to make it succeed but we are implementing it in a limited manner -- this will not happen quickly."

Link (http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/10/us-saudi-women-jobs-idUSTRE6A91S820101110).

Now there has finally been a turn of the page:


if you are a woman in Saudi Arabia and you need a new bra or a pair of underpants, you have to buy them from a man. Now, the Saudi king says he wants female sales assistants in lingerie stores. Anchor Marco Werman speaks with Saudi investment analyst and women’s rights advocate Reem Asaad who lives in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Asaad has spent the past few years calling attention to the problem of “men-as-lingerie-sales-assistants” in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.theworld.org/2011/06/buying-lingerie-in-saudi-arabia/

I can't imagine being a woman, and I can't imagine being a woman in SA. Well, it would probably suck. Or at least suck less now.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
9th June 11, 05:18 AM
Its pollitical correctness gone mad!

Spade: The Real Snake
9th June 11, 11:00 AM
They need to start offering grooming services before they start selling frilly panties

Harpy
9th June 11, 02:35 PM
Pathetic on so many levels.

Spade: The Real Snake
9th June 11, 02:48 PM
Lily, I can tell by your cup size just by looking at your post

Harpy
9th June 11, 10:30 PM
You both would make great lingerie salesmen in Saudi.

Spade: The Real Snake
10th June 11, 12:53 AM
Come in the back and I'll have you try something on....see how it fits.

Harpy
10th June 11, 12:58 AM
You're going to be flogged.

Steve
10th June 11, 01:56 AM
Anything to make a satisfied customer.

Feryk
10th June 11, 12:50 PM
Cultures that are this uptight are ridiculous.

I'm looking at YOU Mormons.

Harpy
10th June 11, 04:55 PM
I wonder if the women can shop online? Send some of the stores out of business.

Spade: The Real Snake
10th June 11, 05:53 PM
I wonder if the women can shop online? Send some of the stores out of business.
don't be shy, baby.
we won't judge you on your cup size

Lu Tze
10th June 11, 10:07 PM
I wonder if the women can shop online? Send some of the stores out of business.What, they let women use the internet?

They'll have the vote next!

Harpy
10th June 11, 10:16 PM
They'll have to be able to drive themselves to the voting site first.

The salesman was a dolt. Women pick up an item of clothing first to look at it's cut, shape, imagine how it would look on her and only then will she check the size tag and look for one two sizes too small. Maybe he was concerned about stock damage?

Spade: The Real Snake
10th June 11, 11:15 PM
Maybe he was concerned about stock damage?
Is that what they call what happens to the cans when they are squeezed into a too-tight bra?
Stock Damage?

Steve
11th June 11, 12:08 AM
don't be shy, baby.
we won't judge you on your cup size

Your waist size, though, now that's an entirely different can of of gummy worms.

Lu Tze
11th June 11, 12:33 AM
Wait... they don't let women drive?

I've changed my mind, it's a fucking enlightened paradise.

Lebell
20th June 11, 03:51 AM
This is an extreme form of the general arab view on women.
To a lesser extend its how most arabs tend to view and treat their women: as soon as you'd let them alone they'd start sucking cock like hungry wolves or something.

This is more telling about their own mindset and also has little to do with Islam.
Islam encourages this bs attitude, but you dont really need to encourage an arab to behave like a dick towards women, ive also seen several arab xtians treating their women like this.

make no mistake when you read this article, the women 'protesting' are just trying to come off as extra pious.
Thats how they tend to change things: interpretate the quran in sucha way it serves your own end, but never EVER criticise the book.

This is what is essentially wrong with their whole ideology.

AAAAAA
20th June 11, 07:09 AM
As for now they can't criticize the book, as it was in Yurop for several centuries. They need their own illuminism, humanism, french revolution etc.
Before we had those we weren't any better. Don't like the book? Burn! Don't like the pope? WAR

Lebell
20th June 11, 08:44 AM
As for now they can't criticize the book, as it was in Yurop for several centuries. They need their own illuminism, humanism, french revolution etc.
Before we had those we weren't any better. Don't like the book? Burn! Don't like the pope? WAR

History fail.
The opression by the church didnt last that long actually.
The idea persists that the Holy See had somehow Holy powerz over the European kings, but the truth was they all used the pope to legitimise their reigns.

He had a symbolical function at best and many kings have told the pope to go fuck himself.
The biggest dish ofcourse being the English king starting the Anglican church.

Since the dark ages til the late middle ages, popes have been assisinated, or being held hostage, and in many other ways forced to do a king's bidding.

It wasnt until right before the first crusade was called the pope gained some things in power and also in prestige.

For the best part of the middle ages though, the pope was the Marge Simpson of Europe.

The European continent has always been very liberal towards women, even since celtic and germanic times.
It were the romans who introduced the women inequality, and later on the Church, weak men fear women, thus women are often made into objects, God forbid they are actual people, far too threatening.
Hence you see this kinda douchebaggy behaviour in shitty countries such as Greece, Italy, Spain and the middle East.
deep down inside machismo = inability to understand and fear of, women.

AAAAAA
20th June 11, 09:06 AM
Yes, I didn't lay out an history of Catholicism just to say "women were oppressed and treated like shit for centuries in Europe". Glad you did it though, my synthesis might have been misleading to those who didn't study history.

LOL at "it were the Roman introducing inequality". It was 2000 years ago and it encompassed most of the continent's landspan and history, and you dismiss it as a temporary hitch on the good ole' Yuropian manners. You really sound brainwashed when you write that stuff.

Absolutely agree about fear as the origin of oppression. Don't you fear the joos will take all your money with their wit and cunning?

Lebell
20th June 11, 02:00 PM
LOL at "it were the Roman introducing inequality". It was 2000 years ago and it encompassed most of the continent's landspan and history, and you dismiss it as a temporary hitch on the good ole' Yuropian manners. You really sound brainwashed when you write that stuff.


As far as I'm aware they did.
At least in Gaul and the northern areas.
There have been graves found of Celtic noble women with precious possesions which were indicators the women could inherit just like the men could.
Under Roman (as early as republican) law/customs the male, the patriarch commanded the lives of his female familymember and should he kill any of them it would most likely happen without consequences.


Absolutely agree about fear as the origin of oppression. Don't you fear the joos will take all your money with their wit and cunning?

I've outsmarted plenty of juice while in Israel.
This is the problem with a lot of the juice: they gloat, I stay in my role as dumbass and take quietly the profits.
Dutch greed> Juice 'cunning'

Craigypooh
20th June 11, 02:58 PM
I'm pretty sure male-centric societies existed before Rome. Athenian for instance.

AAAAAA
20th June 11, 04:36 PM
As far as I'm aware they did.
At least in Gaul and the northern areas.
There have been graves found of Celtic noble women with precious possesions which were indicators the women could inherit just like the men could.
Under Roman (as early as republican) law/customs the male, the patriarch commanded the lives of his female familymember and should he kill any of them it would most likely happen without consequences.


I concur, my point is, that heritage was mostly replaced by the Roman cultural expansion and then by the Church, which shaped the customs and traditions (and a whole way of thinking) coming afterwards, more conservative towards women. Celtic heritage for instance might be one fo the factors for Northern Europe's swifter move towards equality; or not. I wouldn't be so sure it may have any significant bearing on that, in comparison to historical events. It's like two different time scales.



I'qve outsmarted plenty of juice while in Israel.
This is the problem with a lot of the juice: they gloat, I stay in my role as dumbass and take quietly the profits.
Dutch greed> Juice 'cunning'

It's a good tech but it only works with somebody who's also playing the 'cunning' instead of being so.
Sure you don't seem the one to "quietly" take profits, without gloating yourself. Am I wrong?

Craigypooh: right, for instance in Athens they had the fanciest justice system for the elite, where a woman's testimony wouldn't have any value. (the home of western culture, also "shitty country") The point is, that attitude spread.

Feryk
20th June 11, 04:40 PM
History fail.
The opression by the church didnt last that long actually.
The idea persists that the Holy See had somehow Holy powerz over the European kings, but the truth was they all used the pope to legitimise their reigns.

He had a symbolical function at best and many kings have told the pope to go fuck himself.
The biggest dish ofcourse being the English king starting the Anglican church.

Since the dark ages til the late middle ages, popes have been assisinated, or being held hostage, and in many other ways forced to do a king's bidding.

It wasnt until right before the first crusade was called the pope gained some things in power and also in prestige.

For the best part of the middle ages though, the pope was the Marge Simpson of Europe.

The European continent has always been very liberal towards women, even since celtic and germanic times.
It were the romans who introduced the women inequality, and later on the Church, weak men fear women, thus women are often made into objects, God forbid they are actual people, far too threatening.
Hence you see this kinda douchebaggy behaviour in shitty countries such as Greece, Italy, Spain and the middle East.
deep down inside machismo = inability to understand and fear of, women.

Holy shit, geniune insight from Lebell. A lot has changed since I've been gone.

Harpy
20th June 11, 04:47 PM
You were blinded before Feryk.

Feryk
20th June 11, 04:49 PM
You were blinded before Feryk.

I guess I needed some time away to really appreciate him.

Lebell
20th June 11, 05:12 PM
It's a good tech but it only works with somebody who's also playing the 'cunning' instead of being so.
Sure you don't seem the one to "quietly" take profits, without gloating yourself. Am I wrong?



yes, you would be wrong.
I take a lot of things very quietly (no snake, dont even go there) and with many things im very discrete and private.
The trick is to come across as someone who tells all and doesnt hold anything back.
Only idiots want to come across as intelligent and mysterious, when you really got or want stuff to hide, you hide it plain in the open.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
21st June 11, 04:48 AM
This explains your gay nazi fetish.

Lebell
21st June 11, 08:19 AM
you're really trying too hard Max.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
21st June 11, 08:49 AM
I_j8BG-ybng

Lebell
21st June 11, 11:40 AM
you never had an edge, max.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
21st June 11, 11:44 AM
tW8FKkVnqng

SoulMechanic
21st June 11, 01:38 PM
yes, you would be wrong.
I take a lot of things very quietly (no snake, dont even go there) and with many things im very discrete and private.
The trick is to come across as someone who tells all and doesnt hold anything back.
Only idiots want to come across as intelligent and mysterious, when you really got or want stuff to hide, you hide it plain in the open.

"brave men tell the truth
the wise man's tools are analogies and puzzles
a woman holds her tongue
knowing silence will speak for her"

Lebell
21st June 11, 04:00 PM
"brave men tell the truth
the wise man's tools are analogies and puzzles
a woman holds her tongue
knowing her cleavage will speak for her"

fixed that for you.

Feryk
21st June 11, 04:36 PM
fixed that for you.

Jesus, TWO posts that with insight in ONE thread? Lebell is well on his way to becoming the Deepak Chopra of Lolland.

Lebell
21st June 11, 05:52 PM
God, I hope not.

Feryk
22nd June 11, 12:26 PM
Just don't imagine any popsicles in your anus and you will be fine. (He used that as an image to get people to cool down).