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resolve
23rd August 10, 01:39 AM
First, I would like to hear YOUR opinions on it.

Lebell obviously has no qualms about doing anything female and breathing. Sex and fighting seem to be his supreme experiences in life, and that's how he's chosen to live. Thus I could see how it was hard for us to relate to each other. Lebell, please elaborate on your views of sex before marriage so what we have just isn't my gross stereotype I just wrote.

Moleculo/Reese believes that the old adage "practice makes perfect" applies especially to relationships and that sex should be practiced before getting married to see if you are "compatible". Please expand on this.

Anyone else, please fill in too. Then I'll see if I can't respond to them, ok?

ICY
23rd August 10, 01:45 AM
I've come to a point at which I'm seeking a meaningful relationship, and I believe, ideally, you'd just find someone compatible the first time, never have sex with anyone else, and be totally committed to each other and ready for children right from the first time you made love so you'd never need to worry about annoying shit like birth control or unintended consequences...

However, in reality, this is very unlikely, and it certainly didn't work out that way for me. So now, while I seek meaning, I pause here and there to smell the roses along the way, even if I know they're not the one I want forever...cause I need to get laid once every 10 days or so, or I start going insane.

Lebell
23rd August 10, 01:46 AM
lolwut?
sandy vagina much?

look its simple:ive had sex and you havent so i can say something about and you better stfu.
its that simple.

WarPhalange
23rd August 10, 01:47 AM
Your religion obviously shapes your opinion of this, but you have to ask yourself why God would give us the ability to experience incredible pleasure and then tell us not to do it?

Furthermore, "back in the day", marriage between 14-year-olds was common. You're how old now? It's unreasonable to expect people to wait until marriage these days when they have the strongest force in nature telling them to do otherwise.

Now, if you're making non-religious arguments, such as "it makes the first time more special", then you can't possibly know that since you have nothing to compare it to

Lebell
23rd August 10, 01:47 AM
..cause I need to get laid once every 10 days or so, or I start going insane.

according to your postingstyle it must have been 4 years by now?
hang in there bro.

bob
23rd August 10, 01:49 AM
First, I would like to hear YOUR opinions on it.

Lebell obviously has no qualms about doing anything female and breathing.

The above is patently untrue.

Lebell fucks trannies.

WarPhalange
23rd August 10, 01:49 AM
I'm sure a pulse isn't a strict requirement either.

ICY
23rd August 10, 01:50 AM
Last night.

Anyway, the religious stuff is just nonsense to me. The theology can be interpreted as you want to. I know it as well as you do, I'm sure. You're taking a MAN'S word about what God means...that's all.

resolve
23rd August 10, 01:51 AM
so i can say something about and you better stfu.
its that simple.

I wish you would; instead of the stupidity internet speak and trolling. Sometimes I do actually feel like talking to you. Is that a big surprise?

ICY
23rd August 10, 01:53 AM
Oh, and BTW, at this point, I couldn't care less. If it is in decent shape, consenting, of legal age, and human, there is some way I can derive satisfaction from a sexual encounter with it.

Trannies are just gay though...why pretend to be fucking a chick? If you wanna fuck a dude...just fuck a dude.

Lebell
23rd August 10, 01:55 AM
I wish you would; instead of the stupidity internet speak and trolling. Sometimes I do actually feel like talking to you. Is that a big surprise?

i like you too, but im not ready yet for any physical stuff though, i made a promise to a special guy that died for my sins.... ;-)

resolve
23rd August 10, 01:55 AM
So now, while I seek meaning, I pause here and there to smell the roses along the way, even if I know they're not the one I want forever...cause I need to get laid once every 10 days or so, or I start going insane.


This is something I have heard so very very often and is one of the things that have strengthened my position on this. Once you open the doors of sexual experience it's hard to keep them shut.

Lebell
23rd August 10, 01:56 AM
Oh, and BTW, at this point, I couldn't care less. If it is in decent shape, consenting, of legal age, and human, there is some way I can derive satisfaction from a sexual encounter with it.

Trannies are just gay though...why pretend to be fucking a chick? If you wanna fuck a dude...just fuck a dude.

you boorish idiot.
trannies are like fun little gimmicks, like those lighters that look like a grenade.
you think its a grenade and you go like: OMG NOES DONT PULL PIN!!
then its like: lolwut? zomg!! hahaha! its a lighter!

trannies are like that.

ICY
23rd August 10, 02:09 AM
Yes, except instead of a flame that pops out, it's a penis, and instead of using it to lite a cigarette, you sucked on it.

It's like THAT.

Resolve, having been of a similar opinion to yours before...you are probably mentally ill right now and have no way of realizing it. The doors should never BE shut.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
23rd August 10, 02:10 AM
then you can't possibly know that since you have nothing to compare it to

oh lawd coming from you...

nihilist
23rd August 10, 02:10 AM
Moleculo/Reese believes that the old adage "practice makes perfect" applies especially to relationships and that sex should be practiced before getting married to see if you are "compatible". Please expand on this.


Ever get a video game that you're sure is the greatest thing ever only to get it home and you end up sick of it after 10 minutes?

Ever start watching a movie and then turn it off because suddenly you realize it sucks ass?

Ever had a best friend that isn't your best friend anymore because you realized that the things you once liked about them annoy the crap out of you?

Ever take taekwondo?

resolve
23rd August 10, 02:13 AM
Ever get a video game that you're sure is the greatest thing ever only to get it home and you end up sick of it after 10 minutes?

Yes.


Ever start watching a movie and then turn it off because suddenly you realize it sucks ass?

Yes.


Ever had a best friend that isn't your best friend anymore because you realized that the things you once liked about them annoy the crap out of you?

No, I'm not that petty. People mean more to me than entertainment.


Ever take taekwondo?

Heavens no.

bob
23rd August 10, 02:13 AM
How does Jesus feel about beating off?

nihilist
23rd August 10, 02:13 AM
This is something I have heard so very very often and is one of the things that have strengthened my position on this. Once you open the doors of sexual experience it's hard to keep them shut.


Once you learn to think it's like really hard to like not think and stuff.

ICY
23rd August 10, 02:16 AM
Reese, correct, as always.

nihilist
23rd August 10, 02:18 AM
People mean more to me than entertainment.




Not sure what that has to do with putting up with someone who does not mature emotionally.

resolve
23rd August 10, 02:32 AM
How does Jesus feel about beating off?

I don't think God cares about exploring your own body. I actually think it's rather healthy to know yourself in that way. But remember, your body is God's temple, and to invite things like rampant lust into your heart doesn't do well to get God to stick around. I have masturbated before just touching myself and thinking thoughts about sex and love and gotten off without a single lustful thought. I ended up just having a really pleasant release and was able to go on with my day with no guilt or associated feelings with that. I have also masturbated before lusting hard after girls and of course also during porn sessions and thinking some messed up sexual thoughts. I don't think God is ok with that. At all.

Also masturbation can be addicting in and of itself. If you are giving all of your worship to your own body then yeah, that's idolatry as well... or it could be taken into the angle of abusing yourself. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. Chronic masturbaters tend to have alot of dysfunction... socially, mentally, and physically. They'd rather sit around and jerk/jill off than develop relationships with their fellow humans, sometimes developing neuroses about sex/masterbation, and when masterbation is taken to extremes it makes it incredibly difficult for a partner to pleasure you.

Did Jesus masterbate? I don't know. Maybe, being the perfect man and all He may have never had the need to. Maybe being perfect He was able to get a release without any associated lust. Odd to think about yeah? I don't know though, remember? So I'd just rather not presume anything.

I know alot of christian guys (and girls) struggle with it, the lust, and in the christian circles I frequent it comes up with the guys alot (and a few times with girls). When asked I simply say "ask God, He'll let you know if He's ok with it or not". It's interesting to note that masterbation is not mentioned once in the entire Bible.

You'd be surprised what alot of christian thinkers and clergy think about the subject.

God created us to enjoy sex and to be ready to enjoy it in a physical relationship within marriage. I feel masterbation and just getting to know yourself in that way is helpful towards that end.

nihilist
23rd August 10, 02:35 AM
If God wanted men and women to get married He would have matched their sexual drives.

resolve
23rd August 10, 02:36 AM
Not sure what that has to do with putting up with someone who does not mature emotionally.

1 Corinthians 13:4-13
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
23rd August 10, 02:39 AM
How am I supposed to wait for marriage if I can't marry a dude?

ICY
23rd August 10, 02:41 AM
The theological masturbation on this thread is too much for me. Fuck this shit.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 02:46 AM
If you're asking our permission to have sex before getting married, then it's granted.

However, if you're struggling with whether or not you should have sex before marriage, and your subconscious is hoping to gather all the non-believers together so you can brilliantly defend your choice to remain a virgin using quotes from a 2000 year old book, then fuck off and stop wasting your, and our time.

You're just going to end up marrying some mentally unhinged ugly chick who shares the same repressed un-biblical ideas about sex and have a really shitty time.

The bible doesn't say it's wrong for a man to have sex with a woman he isn't married to (unless she's another man's wife or one of his relatives), and it's full of examples of patriarchs doing just that and going totally unpunished.

Just let it go (inside a vay-jay-jay hopefully).

nihilist
23rd August 10, 02:51 AM
I don't think God cares about exploring your own body. Did He tell you that He DOES care about casually exploring
someone else's?




I actually think it's rather healthy to know yourself in that way.
How convenient.


But remember, your body is God's temple,

Is that what somebody told you?


and to invite things like rampant lust into your heart doesn't do well to get God to stick around.
Is that what somebody told you?



I have masturbated before just touching myself and thinking thoughts about sex and love and gotten off without a single lustful thought. I ended up just having a really pleasant release and was able to go on with my day with no guilt or associated feelings with that.
Did someone tell you to feel guilty?


I have also masturbated before lusting hard after girls and of course also during porn sessions and thinking some messed up sexual thoughts. I don't think God is ok with that. At all.
Cause God is so pure and good and stuff?




Also masturbation can be addicting in and of itself. If you are giving all of your worship to your own body then yeah, that's idolatry as well... or it could be taken into the angle of abusing yourself. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
Is that what someone told you?


Chronic masturbaters tend to have alot of dysfunction... socially, mentally, and physically. They'd rather sit around and jerk/jill off than develop relationships with their fellow humans, sometimes developing neuroses about sex/masterbation, and when masterbation is taken to extremes it makes it incredibly difficult for a partner to pleasure you.
Who told you that?


Did Jesus masterbate? I don't know. Maybe, being the perfect man and all He may have never had the need to. Maybe being perfect He was able to get a release without any associated lust. Odd to think about yeah? I don't know though, remember? So I'd just rather not presume anything.

Cause that would be gay, huh?


I know alot of christian guys (and girls) struggle with it, the lust, and in the christian circles I frequent it comes up with the guys alot (and a few times with girls). When asked I simply say "ask God, He'll let you know if He's ok with it or not". It's interesting to note that masterbation is not mentioned once in the entire Bible. Because anyone condemning masturbation would be a hypocrite.


You'd be surprised what alot of christian thinkers and clergy think about the subject.
Did you say Christian 'thinkers'?


God created us to enjoy sex and to be ready to enjoy it in a physical relationship within marriage. I feel masterbation and just getting to know yourself in that way is helpful towards that end.

How does coming into a gym sock make you a better husband?

Cullion
23rd August 10, 02:55 AM
Jerking off is unbiblical. He's spilling his seed on barren ground.

The bible's quite clear on this. You should be sewing your wild oats with unmarried handmaidens right now, not spanxing it to Internet porn.

nihilist
23rd August 10, 02:55 AM
1 Corinthians 13:4-13
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

I think you should.

resolve
23rd August 10, 02:57 AM
If you're asking our permission to have sex before getting married, then it's granted.

No.


However, if you're struggling with whether or not you should have sex before marriage, and your subconscious is hoping to gather all the non-believers together so you can brilliantly defend your choice to remain a virgin using quotes from a 2000 year old book, then fuck off and stop wasting your, and our time.

I'm not struggling with it. I've already made my decision bud, I'm committed to it. I just want to have open dialogue and some debate. Is that too much to ask?


You're just going to end up marrying some mentally unhinged ugly chick who shares the same repressed un-biblical ideas about sex and have a really shitty time.

Now this, this is revealing. Why the vitriol?


The bible doesn't say it's wrong for a man to have sex with a woman he isn't married to (unless she's another man's wife of one of his relatives), and it's full of examples of patriarchs doing just that and going totally unpunished.

See: fornication. Name examples pls, and then we will discuss them


Just let it go (inside a vay-jay-jay hopefully).

Let what go? The fact that I am actually wanting to have a debate/discussion about my beliefs for once? Does that seriously unnerve you so much?

resolve
23rd August 10, 03:04 AM
Jerking off is unbiblical. He's spilling his seed on barren ground.

The bible's quite clear on this. You should be sewing your wild oats with unmarried handmaidens right now, not spanxing it to Internet porn.

Whether you are being serious with this or not.... that's a serious misquotation and it's taken out of context. Didn't stop people who didn't think about it using it as a hammer to their own guilty consciences though.

Listen, what Cullion is talking about here is a scripture about Onan, a man who pulled out of a woman instead of giving it to her. Here's the verse.

Genesis 38:9
"And Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so it came about that when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground, in order not to give offspring to his brother."

The context is:

Onan's brother died. It was his familial duty to provide heirs to that family line so the widow would be taken care of... Women had a hard time back then.

Why did God kill Onan for spilling his seed on the ground? The reason God did this is not because Onan wasted his seed on the ground, but because Onan refused to perform his familial duties of producing offspring for his brother's. This was a great offense at the time. Now, we must realize that the culture was very different than ours is today. In that culture, when a man died and left no children, the next of kin was sometimes obligated to "go in to" the wife and produce children. These children were then considered to be the descendants of the original late husband and would be raised as such. This way, the offspring would be able to take care of the mother, provide more people for the community, and thereby raise their own children, continuing the name of that family. Onan knew this and refused to take part in furthering the honor and name of the brother's wife and thereby also risking provision for her in the future. To this, God was very displeased and took Onan's life.


This story has nothing to do with masturbation.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 03:06 AM
You're taking Alan Dershowitz' interpretation over Clement of Alexandria's?

Yeah, you're picking and choosing alright.

It doesn't unnerve me at all, I just think you're being an idiot.

I've already devoted a whole thread to shredding the view that the bible insists on the modern Christian understanding of monogamy, it absolutely does not.

Fornication in the bible simply does not refer to every act of sex outside of marriage.

However, jerking off is discouraged, yet you do that. This tells me that you aren't really being guided by the Bible, it's just that you've had a sexually repressive upbringing that makes you turn into a pathetic chaste puppydog around women whilst pleasuring yourself to wicked extremes at home, you fornicator.

These beliefs of yours aren't rooted in the Bible, they're rooted in pagan Roman civil law that's been passed down through the centuries and bubbled up for you in modern American puritanism.

Jesus is watching you know. He can see what you're up to when you spank it.

Have sex and make the step into manhood. This is your last chance to recant your childlike and unbiblical beliefs before you turn into this year's Dagon.

Lebell
23rd August 10, 03:13 AM
cos..you will turn into Dagon if you stay on this path..

resolve
23rd August 10, 03:25 AM
It doesn't unnerve me at all, I just think you're being an idiot.

I've already devoted a whole thread to shredding the view that the bible insists on the modern Christian understanding of monogamy, it absolutely does not.

I'll have to go back and revisit this thread you're talking about and see what you actually pulled up.


Fornication in the bible simply does not refer to every act of sex outside of marriage.


However, jerking off is discouraged, yet you do that. This tells me that you aren't really being guided by the Bible, it's just that you've had a sexually repressive upbringing that makes you turn into a pathetic chaste puppydog around women whilst pleasuring yourself to wicked extremes at home, you fornicator.

Show me proof. I refuted the only thing you brought to the table.


These beliefs of yours aren't rooted in the Bible, they're rooted in pagan Roman civil law that's been passed down through the centuries and bubbled up for you in modern American puritanism.

Again, if you don't want to repost it, I'm going to have to find what you wrote and then quote it here so I can discuss it.


Jesus is watching you know. He can see what you're up to when you spank it.

Yeah I know. He's also seen everything YOU've done. I've repented and asked forgiveness for my immorality and I'm working towards defeating it. With the power of God, it is possible.


Have sex and make the step into manhood. This is your last chance to recant your childlike and unbiblical beliefs

I will when I'm married. I'll reconsider what's unbiblical when you provide actual proof or I find it first.


before you turn into this year's Dagon.

It's more than a meme with you guys. It really is an obsession.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 03:29 AM
There is simply no instruction from God or Christ for a man to avoid sex before he is married. Nor is he required to have sex only with his first wife. Such a thing does not exist.

Robot Jesus
23rd August 10, 03:31 AM
cul has won this debate many times; repent resolve, you have lost.



*grabs popcorn for the ad hominum*

resolve
23rd August 10, 03:43 AM
Ok Cullion. I did some searching and this article most closely matches what I think and have prayed about for a long time deep in my spirit with God. It provides the same insights I got when reading the Bible about pre-marital sex and what it means.

http://net-burst.net/singles/premarital.htm

I'll give just a highlight, paraphrased by me, for those not especially interested in reading a long article. I do highly encourage that you read it though.

Sex UNITES. It is a bond. The two shall become ONE flesh.

Adam and Eve had no wedding, yet they were husband and wife. How can this be? Biblically speaking, sex IS marriage. That's why it was so important throughout the Bible if you had God within you (set apart, holy) that you not have sex with unbelievers or prostitutes. It formed that extremely special bond.

"So what is it that creates this bond – the two becoming one – that Jesus declared no one should rip apart? Does an official piece of paper cause this bond? A solemn ceremony? No. The bond that no one should break is created by the most intimate of human commitments. Scripture reveals that a single act of sexual intercourse – no matter how brief or superficial – makes two people one in God’s sight.

.....

This might also explain the rather startling omission of any divinely-ordained wedding rituals. The most sacred aspect of entering marriage is not some religious ceremony but the act of sexual union, which should ideally involve the shedding of virgin blood. God’s Word could have instituted religious rituals associated with a couple’s first sexual experience, but that would suggest that only if those rituals occurred is sexual union binding, whereas it would seem that in God’s eyes any initial act of sexual union is sacred, and is equivalent to vowing a lifelong commitment."

Cullion
23rd August 10, 03:45 AM
What Resolve just did with the story of Onan was ignore millenia of widely accepted Christian teaching on masturbation by quoting a literal reading of the passage first published by a Jewish law professor.

I happen to think Alan Dershowitz is right, however a clear precedent is established...

resolve goes with a modern day Jew's interpretation, because a) It's a closer reading of what's actually in the Bible and b) He likes jerking off.

The Bible doesn't say anywhere that you can't have sex with a woman before marriage, or aside from your main wife. You just aren't allowed to fuck relatives, other men's wives or do a girl and her mother together. This is the absolute literal Dershowitzian interpretation of what the Bible says.

I submit to you that fucking a real woman is a hella lot more fun and satisfying than raping your right hand hunched over a computer, and that you should try it.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 03:52 AM
Ok Cullion. I did some searching and this article most closely matches what I think and have prayed about for a long time deep in my spirit with God. It provides the same insights I got when reading the Bible about pre-marital sex and what it means.

http://net-burst.net/singles/premarital.htm

I'll give just a highlight, paraphrased by me, for those not especially interested in reading a long article. I do highly encourage that you read it though.

Sex UNITES. It is a bond. The two shall become ONE flesh.

Adam and Eve had no wedding, yet they were husband and wife. How can this be? Biblically speaking, sex IS marriage. That's why it was so important throughout the Bible if you had God within you (set apart, holy) that you not have sex with unbelievers or prostitutes. It formed that extremely special bond.

"So what is it that creates this bond – the two becoming one – that Jesus declared no one should rip apart? Does an official piece of paper cause this bond? A solemn ceremony? No. The bond that no one should break is created by the most intimate of human commitments. Scripture reveals that a single act of sexual intercourse – no matter how brief or superficial – makes two people one in God’s sight.

.....

This might also explain the rather startling omission of any divinely-ordained wedding rituals. The most sacred aspect of entering marriage is not some religious ceremony but the act of sexual union, which should ideally involve the shedding of virgin blood. God’s Word could have instituted religious rituals associated with a couple’s first sexual experience, but that would suggest that only if those rituals occurred is sexual union binding, whereas it would seem that in God’s eyes any initial act of sexual union is sacred, and is equivalent to vowing a lifelong commitment."

The same article goes on to claim that Jesus can restore your virginity, whilst failing to explain why god left all those biblical patriarchs who had sex outside of marriage went unpunished. It's nuts.

resolve
23rd August 10, 03:54 AM
I don't masturbate to porn anymore. Cuz lust and sin and all that. That was a monumental thing to get rid of in my life, you know? Please stop inferring I do. I have slipped up a few times, after I stopped watching it a few years ago, but usually I can turn the porn off before getting into it. Repent. Move on. Gets easier every time to say no. I hate pornography. I truly do. It's so degrading, whether or not the woman wants to be viewed that way.

The story of Onan was misinterpreted. Alot of early chrsitians had SEVERE hangups about sex, coming from very loose backgrounds. They frantically searched for anything in the scriptures that would soothe their shame and provide a leaping point to work towards God's forgiveness. Yet, they often misquoted, rearranged, and reworked alot of things out of context to match what they were feeling. You can't do that! And christians (and jews) have been debating the Holy scriptures for those same millenia back and forth because there are people that know original interpretations of things can be wrong.

It's funny that Jesus warned about that very thing.

resolve
23rd August 10, 04:01 AM
The same article goes on to claim that Jesus can restore your virginity, whilst failing to explain why god left all those biblical patriarchs who had sex outside of marriage went unpunished. It's nuts.

It never said it wasn't sin Culls, while it does mention in other areas it is.

You can't say "well this guy went unpunished so what he did wasn't sin!!!11".

Yes, it was sin. God often worked in the culture He started with, revealing things over time to people. Abraham came from a mesopotamian city with established marriage rites and practices. God had already established what was right since creation, yet mankind kept drifting away from it time and time again. There is no clearer message of the Bible than that simplicity. God chose to work with what He had and reveal to His chosen people things over time instead of completely reworking everything at once. Why? I believe it was all to better point to the savior and that God let mankind make fools of themselves more than once because mankind is definitely stubborn, arrogant, and proud and won't see things until they've completely screwed it up so bad for themselves they think "well, maybe God was right after all".

Also, you can't take out the afterlife in this. Then there's also the fact that God lets sinners go unpunished during this lifetime alot and treating sinners and believers with the same overall grace to start with (causes it to rain on the believer and unbeliever's fields and all that). There's biblical support for that.

EDIT:::

Also don't forget to take into account throughout the Bible God chose to use "Dirty vessels" for His glory.

EDIT EDIT:::

The article talking about "restoring virginity" was simply talking about the washing away of sins by Christ's blood and repentance, just like any other sin. If you had read the article, you'd have realised that instead of making it seem like some bizarre extra-biblical thing.

Pilgrim
23rd August 10, 04:02 AM
cul has won this debate many times; repent resolve, you have lost.



*grabs popcorn for the ad hominum*

Joins Robot Jesus on the bleachers.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 04:15 AM
It never said it wasn't sin Culls, while it does mention in other areas it is.

You can't say "well this guy went unpunished so what he did wasn't sin!!!11".

Yes I can. You can't just make stuff up and claim something's a sin when the bible doesn't say so and then spank yourself guilt-free just because some law professor says it's okay.



Also, you can't take out the afterlife in this. Then there's also the fact that God lets sinners go unpunished during this lifetime alot and treating sinners and believers with the same overall grace to start with (causes it to rain on the believer and unbeliever's fields and all that). There's biblical support for that.

The article talking about "restoring virginity" was simply talking about the washing away of sins by Christ's blood and repentance, just like any other sin. If you had read the article, you'd have realised that instead of making it seem like some bizarre extra-biblical thing.

But that's exactly what it is. You're following a commandment that doesn't appear anywhere in the bible. It just doesn't. Lots of the guys get to bone their handmaidens or widows without getting punished, and when you look at the list of what's explicitly forbidden nowhere does it say you can't have sex without a marriage. Nor does it say you're stuck with one woman for life.


I think God wants you to stop interfering with yourself and put it into one of his beautiful creations.

resolve
23rd August 10, 04:28 AM
Yes I can. You can't just make stuff up and claim something's a sin when the bible doesn't say so

It does in other places.


and then spank yourself guilt-free just because some law professor says it's okay.

You make it sound like masturbation is bad for you. Health benefits mang. And he wasn't the first one to come up with that interpretation either.



But that's exactly what it is. You're following a commandment that doesn't appear anywhere in the bible.

Yes, it does.


It just doesn't.

Yes it does.


Lots of the guys get to bone their handmaidens or widows without getting punished, and when you look at the list of what's explicitly forbidden nowhere does it say you can't have sex without a marriage. Nor does it say you're stuck with one woman for life.

Concubines were considered a lesser wife without social status (no dowry) in Patriarchal and Hebrew culture.



I think God wants you to stop interfering with yourself and put it into one of his beautiful creations.

Yes, when we've decided to marry each other.

bob
23rd August 10, 04:28 AM
What about massaging my own prostate?

Frank White
23rd August 10, 04:30 AM
I am created in Gods image, I am a child of God. If I can physically, emotionally, and financially accomodate more han one woman and choose to do so, so be it.
It's as simple as that.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 04:32 AM
It does in other places.

No it doesn't. Produce it.



You make it sound like masturbation is bad for you. Health benefits mang. And he wasn't the first one to come up with that interpretation either.

Masturbation was disapproved of by 1st century Jewish rabbis and has been disapproved of by Christian clergy since Clement of Alexandria. Sex is good for you too.

If you're going to ignore normative Christian teaching that doesn't have biblical support for beating off, you should have the fucking balls to do the same when it comes to real women. Stop being such a pussy.

resolve
23rd August 10, 04:33 AM
emotionally accomodate more han one woman


Does that ever really work though? Where it doesn't create mad jealousy, favoritism, drama, and torn emotions, etc?

Lebell
23rd August 10, 04:33 AM
we all create our own hells and heavens.
multiple gf's means multiple naggings, pregnancies and mothers in law.
just saying..

Frank White
23rd August 10, 04:37 AM
Does that ever really work though? Where it doesn't create mad jealousy, favoritism, drama, and torn emotions, etc?

We all have our positions, our jobs, our places. I am the captain of the ship in my home. At work, I am second in command.

Read the book, if multiple wives are required in a society where women outnumber men four to one, that's where men have to step up.

resolve
23rd August 10, 04:37 AM
No it doesn't. Produce it.

Fine, it's 4:30am here. I have class in the morning. Will go Bible skimming a bit later. You'll have to wait until then. If I can't find it, I will admit it. But I remember it being there.




Masturbation was disapproved of by 1st century Jewish rabbis and has been disapproved of by Christian clergy since Clement of Alexandria.

So has marriage for clergy (and marriage in general) been disapproved of as getting in the way of pursuing God by certain people in the christian church. Doesn't mean they are right. Relationships can uplift God and you can pursue God together and have a richer spiritual life too. Some christians tend to forget that. It's an example of people interpreting the Bible in a way that suits what they want or view as good. Jesus warns about this repeatedly.


Sex is good for you too.

Nobody is debating how awesome sex is.



If you're going to ignore normative Christian teaching that doesn't have biblical support for beating off

Wait, what?


, you should have the fucking balls to do the same when it comes to real women. Stop being such a pussy.

I will when I get married.



EDIT:::

I forgot to reply to Moleculo's post asking what masturbation does to serve as a better husband or prepare you for sex. When taken as a learning tool, you can learn where your limits are and how you like things.. which you can then pass on to your partner. You can learn control and be able to pleasure a woman, who has a bit different way of getting turned on and you'll need patience if you want her to recieve hers as well, even better.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 04:41 AM
You're just scared of sex with a real woman. There's no bible-supported logic here.

resolve
23rd August 10, 04:45 AM
You're just scared of sex with a real woman. There's no bible-supported logic here.

Nice Ad-Hom. I want it more than I can almost stand. You really have no idea. But I know in my heart what's right. Couple peeps wanted to debate "what's right" and I'm trying my best to do that.

Right now, need sleep. Night Cullion.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 04:51 AM
You don't have a leg to stand on with this. There's nothing in the bible that says you can't have sex without being married. If you want to be technical about concubinage, well my suggestion is that you make that sweet young maiden your concubine. Long and hard. Righteously.

Don't you dare come back with some vague reference to 'fornication' and then try to claim with a straight face that this means sex with a beautiful unmarried woman but that it doesn't refer to cracking one out with your hand.

Don't you dare.

Harpy
23rd August 10, 05:25 AM
I'm glad I don't attribute my hang-ups to a Divine power.

Cullion - you've run out of hand lotion, what with all this teasing of resolve.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 05:27 AM
Hand lotion's for sissies.

Frank White
23rd August 10, 05:31 AM
I'm glad I don't attribute my hang-ups to a Divine power.



What do you attribute your hang ups to, Clarice? I mean Lilith?

Harpy
23rd August 10, 05:37 AM
Let's keep this about resolve and Christ. I actually think it's sweet that he wants to wait till marriage. Old-fashioned and unworkable, but sweet.

Pilgrim
23rd August 10, 05:47 AM
There is nothing wrong with his attitude.
There is something wrong with his obtained results.

Also, it's so hypocritical.
Just how I was Straight Edge until someone offered me pussy.
Or, meth.
Or, cheeseburger.

He will fall the first time he is tempted. And then, he will have no clue how to handle himself.

Sadly, in this world of wolves, there is no place for fools.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 05:51 AM
I bet you thought it was sweet that he followed his bride-to-be around like an 'affection'-starved puppy too.

Kein Haar
23rd August 10, 05:55 AM
Here is what resolve is doing. It's a backwards form of pride, and it's all fucked up. He pulls out theological reverence for women as the thing which is supposed to get them all hot for him, which is supposed to give him the opportunity to chivalrously decline THEIR offers. Then he gets to fist-bump god. Problem is, his religious reverence for the p00n is the very thing which dries them up and drives them away, so he never REALLY gets to test his piety. Not really.

Theology is a nice excuse for being afraid of women, but he's just scape goating. If it weren't theology it'd be something else. Leave poor Jesus alone. He had nothing to do with this.

This has practical problems, resolve. When some crazy bitch actually does wanna fuck you (before or after marriage...regardless), you won't be ready, and there will be performance problems.


I have a prescription for this.

Save up some money.

Go to a nice resort-brothel in the Dominican Republic for a few days.

Here's the important part: GIVE UP. Completely. Check your pride at the door and say something like this:

"I've never had sex before. I need you to show me how to do this."

When I need to learn how to do something, I approach a prospective mentor in just such a way.

Problem is, I think you have a really hard time being humble.

Lebell
23rd August 10, 05:59 AM
What Nid said.

Lebell
23rd August 10, 06:00 AM
There is nothing wrong with his attitude.
There is something wrong with his obtained results.

Also, it's so hypocritical.
Just how I was Straight Edge until someone offered me pussy.
Or, meth.
Or, cheeseburger.

He will fall the first time he is tempted. And then, he will have no clue how to handle himself.

Sadly, in this world of wolves, there is no place for fools.

WTF...

what in the name of jesus are you going on about?
do we live on the same planet??
good lord, man...

Pilgrim
23rd August 10, 06:47 AM
Oh, come on!

First, I get burried in red varrots for allegedly "trolling" poor, tender resolve, and then I try to be polite, and it's also wrong?

In my post I was obviously answering to Lily.
Some sort of vow of celibacy is workable for some people.
I mean, there are people who are fucked up enough manage it,
according to Christian propaganda.
So, maybe he is lucky.


Hey, just to tell some scary fireside tale, I studied psychology for three years, and my "peak" was to accompany an interview with a guy who was a virgin at the tender age of 34... And had accidently sewered part of his manhood with some self-made masturbation device. Not even a joke. Difficult not to laugh in his face.



"resolve" will either go straight down the road to an antisocial personality disorder, if he isn't there already. That stalking shit is really bizarre.

Wasn't he also the dude who started a thread on Bullshido about inappropriately touching a child during kid training? - Two or three years ago.

You see where the road is pointing to.



Even if he manages to remain mentally sane - and there are those guys (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/story?id=3932047&page=1) - he will most likely manage to fuck things up royally.




Also, what is the mental image you others get from this guy?
- Not anyway the kind of guy a woman would want to be with, at least as far as I am concerned.
His virginity pledge is nothing but a mechanism to hide his own insecurities.
You know, talking things away to avoid confrontation.

I don't wish him anything bad, but he should go seek professional help.
Especially him being in such a depression right now might ultimately lead to an aggressive response. Either against himself, or, given his background as a highly obsessive person, against the girl.

Just wait for the moment when he finds out that she had sex with somebody else.
my personal predicition is, 50:50 that he goes all Norman Bates on her.

Pilgrim
23rd August 10, 07:02 AM
I bet you thought it was sweet that he followed his bride-to-be around like an 'affection'-starved puppy too.

Can you please point to the post where he tells this?

I read it a while ago, but I don't seem to find it any more.

bob
23rd August 10, 07:05 AM
I have masturbated before just touching myself and thinking thoughts about sex and love and gotten off without a single lustful thought. I ended up just having a really pleasant release and was able to go on with my day with no guilt or associated feelings with that. I have also masturbated before lusting hard after girls and of course also during porn sessions and thinking some messed up sexual thoughts. I don't think God is ok with that. At all.



I think we could all take some guidance from this statement.

So, jerk off and think about nookie = God is happy

Jerk off and think about nookie lustfully = God gets quite irate

Um yeah.

Anyways, Nid has deftly encapsulated our gospel regarding this subject. Thank you brother.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 07:07 AM
I miss surprising her with chocolate and roses and massages when she was frustrated studying for tests or when she was fighting with her family and on her period.

ewww.

Harpy
23rd August 10, 07:17 AM
Cullion - I'm definitely not against sex before marriage (and during).

resolve, you're punishing yourself and as posters have said...she will probably give it up very soon to someone else, then feel guilt, come back to you and your cloak of pride will not allow you to accept her.

Go get experience, attain mastery (read Nid's post), then go find your virgin bride and keep her satisfied.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 07:22 AM
She really probably won't come back to him after getting it from somebody else.

Lebell
23rd August 10, 07:47 AM
i wonder if she's on facebook...

Commodore Pipes
23rd August 10, 08:02 AM
Won't read. Too long.

However, there is something to be said for that high school-style make out, where each grope and stroke brings that pious "no" closer to a wanton "yes". Unfortunately, that is best achieved on a weekend night when her parents went to the lake and her little sister to a sleepover and you didn't expect anything to happen no matter what you hope.

Wedding night pressure to do it has a tendecy to short circuit that lovely seduction. Still, I was signifcantly more experienced than my wife when we were married, and we waited until marriage to have sex, and I can honestly say that I wished I'd saved myself for her. Yeah, some of you might consider it cheap sentimentality, but then again some of you are emotionless robots who could serve the world better moldering in the grave, too. I guess I'm saying it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
*adjusts bifocals disapprovingly and puffs on corncob pipe"

resolve
23rd August 10, 09:30 AM
I just wanted to address some things here before class.

Where did this come about I was stalking her? WTF!? When did a clean break where you don't see each other, don't talk to each other, don't hang out with the same circles anymore mean stalking? Seriously? How did that get invented? I merely wrote how I was feeling two days after the break up. Have you guys ever seriously loved someone and then had it all fall apart? Didn't you feel anything similar?

And where did this shit start about "following her around like an affection starved puppy" start? Nowhere in my relationship did I ever do that. Never, no way, no how. I'm not that dense or immature. I've had enough relationships FAIL doing just that when I was in my teens to understand that relationships don't work like that. Women don't want that out of a man. That's why my previous relationships failed; I was a boy, not a man. Now this time it was different. I was prepared to do everything she needed to be the man in her life. Our relationship got too close, too fast for someone her age (some women are ok marrying that age, most are not... I had hopes for the former, but it just didn't work out) and she bolted. End of story.

Stop making up bullshit. And I'd really like to stop talking about it... but I can't deal with people making up constant lies about me and her. It's wrong.

I want to get back on the subject here, but this thread is getting seriously derailed. I might have to start a new one, just responding to Reese, Cullion's, and Frank White's posts as they were the only ones to seriously answer my question with any veracity.

I have been wanting to talk about this for a LONG time. It was just unfortunate circumstances that we broke up and I posted about it (bad on me, yes I know..., am I supposed to apologize or something now?) in CTC. It immediately got turned into a troll fest (with a few honest suggestions and advice, which I did go over) and I started this thread to take my mind off of it... I like debating this kind of stuff. I'd hoped it would go over well in Ground Zero as an actual discussion...

Cullion
23rd August 10, 09:41 AM
zBXMu2zPL04

resolve
23rd August 10, 09:45 AM
You must spread some rep...

Damn that was some funny shit.

:)

Cullion
23rd August 10, 09:45 AM
So, yeah.

Be prepared for ANYTHING in life! This is a funny one I'll share with you about my girlfriend. She has serious anti-pda (public display of affection) tendencies. She just freezes up when we do anything when other people are around. It took her months before she'd let me hold her hand in public.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/57/0706-CWCMegan1.jpg

Lebell
23rd August 10, 10:12 AM
Is that Resolve?
he looks like a stalker..

KO'd N DOA
23rd August 10, 10:16 AM
I am created in Gods image, I am a child of God. If I can physically, emotionally, and financially accomodate more han one woman and choose to do so, so be it.
It's as simple as that.



"No man can serve two masters."
Matthew 6:24

resolve
23rd August 10, 10:20 AM
I will admit to getting trolled good and hard here. I was in an emotionally chaotic state. Coming here for solace was not the wisest of decisions... I just had nothing else at the moment.

I will say this though Cullion: that was the first time I've been able to laugh since this whole thing went down.

I'll do my best to provide a serious discussion when I get the time.

KO'd N DOA
23rd August 10, 10:36 AM
You don't have a leg to stand on with this. There's nothing in the bible that says you can't have sex without being married. If you want to be technical about concubinage, well my suggestion is that you make that sweet young maiden your concubine. Long and hard. Righteously.

Don't you dare come back with some vague reference to 'fornication' and then try to claim with a straight face that this means sex with a beautiful unmarried woman but that it doesn't refer to cracking one out with your hand.

Don't you dare.

In respect to your assertion that there is not prohabition on pre-maritial sex, I would submit the following argument.

I think you would have to consider the quotes of Jesus that Matthew in Chapter 19 regarding the ideal of marriage, and divorce, which are quoted in almost every wedding (except a pagan one) that I have been to. A man and women are united in a marriage agreement legally, and become one flesh physically. In the context of that marriage, how would that that mans flesh already joined with one women, be also able to join with another women at the same time?

Matthew 19.
Some Pharisees came to test him. They asked, " Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

"Haven't you read" he replied "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female and said 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

Cullion
23rd August 10, 10:43 AM
Yes, a man can have multiple women. It happens in the bible all the time.

WarPhalange
23rd August 10, 10:55 AM
oh lawd coming from you...

Does that make what I said invalid?

EuropIan
23rd August 10, 11:00 AM
You lost your girlfriend because you didn't bone.

KO'd N DOA
23rd August 10, 11:05 AM
Yes, a man can have multiple women. It happens in the bible all the time.

...and is the source and reason of most of the tragic affairs recorded in the bible.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 11:06 AM
So is worship of Yahweh, you dolt. However Yahweh repeatedly fails to punish men or issue explicit commandments against boning other women as long as they aren't married to another man, mother and daughter together etc...

TheMightyMcClaw
23rd August 10, 11:07 AM
I am created in Gods image, I am a child of God. If I can physically, emotionally, and financially accomodate more han one woman and choose to do so, so be it.
It's as simple as that.

And if each of your wives can physically, emotionally, and financially accommodate multiple husbands, is that kosher too?

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd August 10, 11:09 AM
resolve, why are you beating yourself up with this thread? Why don't you just get a handle on your current life-changing situation and the subsequent LULZ that are sure to come of *that* thread.....THEN come back over here and be told how wrong you are from three different continents.

Unless, of course, f4n4l logs on from Brazil and tells you how wrong you are...then it will up the total to four.

resolve
23rd August 10, 11:13 AM
resolve, why are you beating yourself up with this thread? Why don't you just get a handle on your current life-changing situation and the subsequent LULZ that are sure to come of *that* thread.....THEN come back over here and be told how wrong you are from three different continents.

Unless, of course, f4n4l logs on from Brazil and tells you how wrong you are...then it will up the total to four.


Wise as always bud. I'll do that.

Commodore Pipes
23rd August 10, 11:45 AM
*Harrumphs at the young people today, chatting away on their internets about the innermost secrets of their hearts, then looks over the paper and rattles it disapprovingly*

KO'd N DOA
23rd August 10, 12:07 PM
So is worship of Yahweh, you dolt.

Source? ...you pillock.


However Yahweh repeatedly fails to punish men or issue explicit commandments against boning other women as long as they aren't married to another man, mother and daughter together etc...

Yahweh records numerous instances where illicit sex was the cause behind certain judgement. The offspring of such cause incredible hardship to the Hebrews.

Abrahams fist born is Ishmael, from a slave women, because of the lack of faith of Sarah and Abraham to the promises of Yahweh.

Does the bible not echo the eternal conflict between Ishmael and Isaac? Warning enough for all of the Hebrew decendants that follow. A perpetual demonstration to warn against extra marital sex.

nihilist
23rd August 10, 12:31 PM
Alot of early chrsitians had SEVERE hangups about sex....

Not much has changed.




Right now, need to slap the slug sleep. Night Cullion.

ICY
23rd August 10, 02:36 PM
my religion is based on demi-gods, of which I am one.

Fuck. I'm almost as awesome as this thread is shit.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 03:10 PM
Source? ...you pillock.

The bible itself. It's full of massacres inspired, or sometimes directly caused by Yahweh. There's even one poor fucker who comes this close to sacrificing his own son.



Yahweh records numerous instances where illicit sex was the cause behind certain judgement. The offspring of such cause incredible hardship to the Hebrews.

Yes, but we have to be very specific about what kind of 'illicit' sex is considered a sin by Yahweh. We can't just assume 'fornication' means 'anything my grandmother disapproved of' if we're being specific about what the bible considers a sin. People who are beloved of Yahweh also cause the Hebrews incredible hardship. Sometimes Yahweh quite deliberately inflicts hardship as a test of somebody he loves, but when a specific act is a sin, it's made absolutely clear.



Abrahams fist born is Ishmael, from a slave women, because of the lack of faith of Sarah and Abraham to the promises of Yahweh.

Does the bible not echo the eternal conflict between Ishmael and Isaac? Warning enough for all of the Hebrew decendants that follow. A perpetual demonstration to warn against extra marital sex.

That's not the same as a sin. The Bible is full of examples of people who suffer for doing the right thing. Sins are sins, and clearly labelled as such.

If something isn't labelled as a sin and devotees of Yahweh are mentioned as doing it without receiving divine punishment, then there's no reason to think that Yahweh considers the act in question a sin.

And the specifics expressly do not forbid extramarital sex unless it involves the cases already listed. Resolve's fears about making love to a woman he hasn't yet entered into a ceremony of marriage with, or that once he does so he'll be de facto married and therefore forbidden to make love to any other woman again simply aren't founded in any straightforward and detailed reading of the Bible.

They're based on Roman civil law designed to stop the peasantry siring children they can't afford to provide for (we have reliable contraception now), and later mystical beliefs about the the channelling of sexual energy into devotion to God (but he isn't really bothered about the second part, because he beats off regularly).

Lebell
23rd August 10, 03:12 PM
during the subjugation of kanaan yahweh thinks its an okay idea to trick pple into converting to judaism, and when they're weak and circumsised have em slaughtered by his chosen pple.

rough deal if you ask me.

AAAhmed46
23rd August 10, 03:13 PM
Show me your genitals.

Your genitals.

Show me your genitals.

GENITALIA!!!!!!!!!!

Lebell
23rd August 10, 03:14 PM
stop being sucha arab.

Kiko
23rd August 10, 03:42 PM
Virginity is over rated. Then again, so is sex sometimes.

It depends on what you expect, I guess.

Feryk
23rd August 10, 04:01 PM
Virginity is over rated. Then again, so is sex sometimes.

It depends on what you expect, I guess.

If you think sex is overrated, you're doing it wrong.

Commodore Pipes
23rd August 10, 04:09 PM
Resolve, I think I know what point Cullion's getting at: you shouldn't be doing this for God. Shoot, doing something just because you think God wants you to might be pious, but it isn't virtuous. You should do this for you, because you find value in it. Lots of us have rituals we follow because they reward us, and lots of those rituals look ridiculous to others because they don't consider the same thing to be a reward.

Cullion
23rd August 10, 04:11 PM
The point is that God never asked him to do this in the Bible, and as he's already willing to do something that many Christians throughout history would consider fornication (i.e. masturbating), then he might as well conquer his fear of women for real.

Commodore Pipes
23rd August 10, 04:12 PM
Oh. No, that won't work.

Feryk
23rd August 10, 04:16 PM
There have been a lot of references to Early Christians, and their sexual practices. I'm guessing none of the posters on the board here have actually done much homework on the subject.

Google turns up some interesting resources:

This one is a precis of a book that discusses how Early Christians (Like Paul the Apostle) used sexual repression as a means of social control. Looks like not much has changed.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb050/is_3_75/ai_n29295646/

This one talks about how St. Augustine's sexual hangups have affected Church doctrine since the 4th Century.

http://www.cybercollege.com/history.htm

This is by no means definitive research, but Resolve would be well advised to take a look at the historical motivations behind sexual repression. The Church (not Jesus) had a vested interest in keeping people from having sex outside of marriage. They used the 'moral depravity' of other cultures as a way of elevating their own spiritualism.

Resolve, if you truly are convinced that not slipping the sausage to a girl will make you holier, then we cannot change your mind, regardless of whatever arguements are brought to bear. If you truly wanted an 'open' discussion of your beliefs, you would first have to be open to the possibility that you and your religious advisers are wrong. You aren't.

KO'd N DOA
23rd August 10, 04:38 PM
The bible itself. It's full of massacres inspired, or sometimes directly caused by Yahweh. There's even one poor fucker who comes this close to sacrificing his own son.

To read it straitforward and detailed, the massacres occured due to iniquities and destible cultural/ religious practices.



Yes, but we have to be very specific about what kind of 'illicit' sex is considered a sin by Yahweh. We can't just assume 'fornication' means 'anything my grandmother disapproved of' if we're being specific about what the bible considers a sin. People who are beloved of Yahweh also cause the Hebrews incredible hardship. Sometimes Yahweh quite deliberately inflicts hardship as a test of somebody he loves, but when a specific act is a sin, it's made absolutely clear.

There is testing of the will, and devotion, but in Job it is clear that Yhwh has granted permission, but has not caused it the hardship.



That's not the same as a sin. The Bible is full of examples of people who suffer for doing the right thing. Sins are sins, and clearly labelled as such.

If something isn't labelled as a sin and devotees of Yahweh are mentioned as doing it without receiving divine punishment, then there's no reason to think that Yahweh considers the act in question a sin.

The suffering of the righteous is a major concern expressed for many psalms and throughout most of the Bible. I would argue that upon Yahweh wanting to create a priest nation, began to call them to a higher moral code, which is expressed in Exodos 20, with the beginning of the codification of the Law. The lists of prohibitions that you are refering to.

To indicate that until that codification under Moses that there were no prohibitions seems to engender a 'spirit vs letter' reading of the text.



And the specifics expressly do not forbid extramarital sex unless it involves the cases already listed. Resolve's fears about making love to a woman he hasn't yet entered into a ceremony of marriage with, or that once he does so he'll be de facto married and therefore forbidden to make love to any other woman again simply aren't founded in any straightforward and detailed reading of the Bible.

The patriarch Jacob, is promised a wife for who he works 7 years for, however much he was in love with her, he does not consumate the marriage for 7 years, (plus 7 days, and gets a bonus bride for his trouble)


They're based on Roman civil law designed to stop the peasantry siring children they can't afford to provide for (we have reliable contraception now), and later mystical beliefs about the the channelling of sexual energy into devotion to God (but he isn't really bothered about the second part, because he beats off regularly).

Don't presume to lecture me about peasents and civil law, I reside in Quebec!

Cullion
23rd August 10, 07:04 PM
The suffering of the righteous is a major concern expressed for many psalms and throughout most of the Bible. I would argue that upon Yahweh wanting to create a priest nation, began to call them to a higher moral code, which is expressed in Exodos 20, with the beginning of the codification of the Law. The lists of prohibitions that you are refering to.

To indicate that until that codification under Moses that there were no prohibitions seems to engender a 'spirit vs letter' reading of the text.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that after Moses, and in the rest of the Bible, there are sexual acts explicitly stated as being sinful, but it's not the case that these laws insist on lifelong male monogamy. It's just not what the book says.

resolve wouldn't have been violating a single divine commandment from God, Jesus or any of the prophets if he were to make love to a girlfriend (as long as she's not somebody else's wife, a member of his immediate family etc..).

It's okay for him to have sex. He's allowed to drink beer and smoke marijuana too, as long as he doesn't commit any sins whilst under the influence.

bob
23rd August 10, 07:05 PM
I wish I'd waited for my wife. I really do. So does she. Last night she hopped into bed just as I was finishing up.

"Why the hell couldn't you have waited!?"

"Sorry baby, pass me a kleenex."

Cullion
23rd August 10, 07:12 PM
Bob, do you think it's okay for resolve to make love to a beautiful woman? a special one ?

How about if he thinks lustful thoughts whilst he does it ?

bob
23rd August 10, 07:24 PM
I'm glad you asked.

I think he's right and that God monitors his thoughts fairly closely whenever there is excess blood in his penis. God has a kind of celestial switchboard that lights up wherever there is wood.

It's not that boners are bad, per se. That would be just divine cruelty. But if we take the teachings of St Augustine as gospel (and between you and I, old Augustine was bang on the money according to my heavenly contacts), lust should never accompany the sex act, lest it cast God from your heart as well.

Incidentally the other thing Augustine was dead right about was that all babies are inherently evil and most of them are, quite frankly, going to hell. Probably the ones conceived in lust though we must take the great man's word for the fact that God chooses pretty arbitrarily.

Now Augustine was a notorious lecher of course who managed to bang himself senseless before he had these kind of revelations so I'd say the path to righteousness for resolve, should he stick as close as possible to doctrine, is Nid's Dominican whore and a shot of penicillin.

After he's done, the intense guilt should motivate him to despise sex and sexuality for good. He's already half way there let's face it. It's probably safer if he marries a homely, Godly woman so that sex feels like a duty.

SifuAbel
23rd August 10, 07:29 PM
LOL

We're nothing more than monkies with car keys. This ever spinning vortex of religion is a man made illusion.

Kein Haar
23rd August 10, 07:39 PM
Guyz stop trolling.

Fear has been a common theme so far.

That's actually very important. Critical even.

When it comes time to mate for other animals, there are two things, respectively, which females and males cannot express to eachother...or else the mating ritual just falls apart. It doesn't work. Now, this is important because without a forebrain, emotions and behavior and perfectly congruent, and that's BASICALLY how people get down to fuck too. Behavior is gonna follow mood.

So, when it's mating season for deer, or fish, or whatever....

Hormones are raging and both are plenty horny, check.

But now what matters is what's actually expressed.

If the female expresses aggression as her manifestation of horniness, the male doesn't "get it" and he's hardwired to not fight a female too much, so that's game over.

If the male expresses submission or fear, the female doesn't quite "get it" so she's not going to submit to him. I mean, you can't have two animals submitting to eachother into infinity...it's not how the midbrain works.

Fear/submission in females during the rut is fine...males get that, and will procede.

Dominance/aggression in males during the rut is fine...females get that and will submit without a fight.

I.e. You know why women SAY they crave the chocolates/massage/wine thing? Because they RARELY get that shit from men. A interesting dude worth fucking just doesn't have the time! Frustration builds drive. You have to withold that shit, dummy!

It doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, it means you have to be sparing.

HappyOldGuy
23rd August 10, 08:13 PM
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that after Moses, and in the rest of the Bible, there are sexual acts explicitly stated as being sinful, but it's not the case that these laws insist on lifelong male monogamy. It's just not what the book says.

resolve wouldn't have been violating a single divine commandment from God, Jesus or any of the prophets if he were to make love to a girlfriend (as long as she's not somebody else's wife, a member of his immediate family etc..).



Are you classifying his gal as a slave, a secondary wife or a foreigner?

WarPhalange
23rd August 10, 09:33 PM
Guyz stop trolling.

Fear has been a common theme so far.

That's actually very important. Critical even.

When it comes time to mate for other animals, there are two things, respectively, which females and males cannot express to eachother...or else the mating ritual just falls apart. It doesn't work. Now, this is important because without a forebrain, emotions and behavior and perfectly congruent, and that's BASICALLY how people get down to fuck too. Behavior is gonna follow mood.

So, when it's mating season for deer, or fish, or whatever....

Hormones are raging and both are plenty horny, check.

But now what matters is what's actually expressed.

If the female expresses aggression as her manifestation of horniness, the male doesn't "get it" and he's hardwired to not fight a female too much, so that's game over.

If the male expresses submission or fear, the female doesn't quite "get it" so she's not going to submit to him. I mean, you can't have two animals submitting to eachother into infinity...it's not how the midbrain works.

Fear/submission in females during the rut is fine...males get that, and will procede.

Dominance/aggression in males during the rut is fine...females get that and will submit without a fight.

I.e. You know why women SAY they crave the chocolates/massage/wine thing? Because they RARELY get that shit from men. A interesting dude worth fucking just doesn't have the time! Frustration builds drive. You have to withold that shit, dummy!

It doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, it means you have to be sparing.

za7jQ1s1BV0&feature=related

TheMightyMcClaw
23rd August 10, 11:35 PM
my religion is based on demi-gods, of which I am one.

Fuck. I'm almost as awesome as this thread is shit.

Egotheism. It's pretty sweet shit.
Virgin Steele even wrote a whole album about it:
8FzCt4Q1gzA

Cullion
24th August 10, 06:30 AM
Are you classifying his gal as a slave, a secondary wife or a foreigner?

I was going to leave that part up to him. It's not good to be too prescriptive.

My own gets to alternate through the roles.

You see, one of my bugbears is that people think the Bible is all like no fun, ever. And that's just not true.

Feryk
24th August 10, 12:12 PM
I'm guessing Resolve is not going to come back to this thread.

Ajamil
25th August 10, 12:24 AM
BG 3.6 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/6/en): One who restrains the senses of action but whose mind dwells on sense objects certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender.

BG 3.33 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/33/en): Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows the nature he has acquired from the three modes. What can repression accomplish?
BG 3.34 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/34/en): There are principles to regulate attachment and aversion pertaining to the senses and their objects. One should not come under the control of such attachment and aversion, because they are stumbling blocks on the path of self-realization.


BG 7.11 (http://vedabase.net/bg/7/11/en): I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, O lord of the Bhāratas.
The big thing (to me) with sex and spirituality is that the inherent physical nature of the act can distract and derail the intent. Becoming obsessed with getting your rocks off will hurt your focus on things of a higher nature (whatever you feel those things are - if any). However obsessively avoiding sex will do the exact same thing.


If you are trying to base your life on Biblical teachings, then you are cheating yourself to not scrutinize the actual messages (I'm sure you do), take what Cullion's arguing seriously, and bring it and any relevant questions up to religious scholars and clergy that you respect.



I had sex before I had religion, so the point is quite moot to me.

resolve
25th August 10, 01:10 AM
I'll come back to this thread, or maybe just make a new one with a tighter focus, when I can calm down (emotions spinning, not really anger) and think rationally and have a decent discussion. This IS a topic I've wanted to bring up here for a long time. It's unfortunate timing I brought it up when I did, mostly out of a kneejerk reaction to being trolled.

lant3rn
25th August 10, 01:27 AM
I still find it sad though, that you are not more open to cullions (and the comminuties advice)on sex.

Honestly your ideas concerning sex are not based upon the actual reality of it. They are vague, unrealistic symbols you have attached to an act that is actually a lot different than your romanticized perceptions.

Sex is not a big deal.
Sex is natural
Sex is fun
Sex will complicate relationships if you let it. ..

Why take advice on something so intrinsic in a persons life from old virgins trying to chaste you into submission.

It doesn't make sense. The church is no authority on it and i think only involves itself to further gilt you the collection plate.

Harpy
25th August 10, 02:56 AM
Arjuna, thank you.

nihilist
25th August 10, 04:11 AM
God had sex with a virgin and He didn't even ask permission.

bob
25th August 10, 05:10 AM
To be fair, he used his divine turkey baster.

EuropIan
25th August 10, 06:16 AM
Oh yeah? well Zeus once transformed himself into a flowerbed to have his way with a woman.

nihilist
25th August 10, 09:53 AM
To be fair, he used his divine turkey baster.
Which I'm sure is fucking huge.

nihilist
25th August 10, 09:54 AM
Oh yeah? well Zeus once transformed himself into a flowerbed to have his way with a woman.

Flowers is one way to get a woman into bed, but kind of pathetic, really.

Lebell
25th August 10, 09:55 AM
i usually shiver from women who are sensitive for crap like flowers, chcoalte and compliments..thats like sticking your pen0r where every douchebag has been before.

nihilist
25th August 10, 10:01 AM
It's like saying: "I'm a pathetic sheep with no individuality who would like to put penor in douchehole with your kind permission. May I approach the pedestal, my queen?"

EuropIan
25th August 10, 10:04 AM
Flowers is one way to get a woman into bed, but kind of pathetic, really.
Not if you imagine it like a tentacle rape scene.

you know that's how he rolls.

nihilist
25th August 10, 10:06 AM
Each flower is like a series of suction cups, further entrapping her soft, yeilding flesh and thus inching her closer to gruesome debasement.

EuropIan
25th August 10, 10:26 AM
PRAISE ZEUS!

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
25th August 10, 10:56 AM
Its reconstructionism gone mad!

Feryk
25th August 10, 01:32 PM
I'll come back to this thread, or maybe just make a new one with a tighter focus, when I can calm down (emotions spinning, not really anger) and think rationally and have a decent discussion. This IS a topic I've wanted to bring up here for a long time. It's unfortunate timing I brought it up when I did, mostly out of a kneejerk reaction to being trolled.

You know, no one here has criticized you for wanting to live the tenets of your religion - just so long as you are willing to examine your doctrine critically, and in a more broad context. After all, your sexual practices affect all of your life, right?

There is nothing wrong with independent research. There is also nothing wrong with historical context. Think about it.

KO'd N DOA
25th August 10, 04:08 PM
The litteral actual and not implied restrictions that Cullion has asked for that would demonstrating the Sin male sexuality, would be for Moses to specify the sin, specifically in the way of "Now Resolve, it is a sin for you to have premaritial relations with single women who are not your mom, sister, aunt, , a mother daughter combo,....therefore be ye celibate till marriage and do not think lustfullly when you tug."

I looked and didn't find it. However, now that we know this collection of books was writen in mondern 21st century english and tranlated by the NIV scholars, there are lots of direct messages specifically for Resolve.

Message #1,



2 Chronicles 20

1 After this, the Moabites and Ammonites with some of the Meunites [a (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11589a)] came to make war on Jehoshaphat.
2 Some men came and told Jehoshaphat, "A vast army is coming against you from Edom, [b (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11590b)] from the other side of the Sea. [c (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11590c)] It is already in Hazazon Tamar" (that is, En Gedi). 3 Alarmed, Jehoshaphat resolved to inquire of the LORD, and he proclaimed a fast for all Judah. 4 The people of Judah came together to seek help from the LORD; indeed, they came from every town in Judah to seek him.

Moral - when you are going to be invaded, get together with your supporters, fast for God to deliver you.
Real life application - you are being 'invaded' by women - get together with your supporters and fast and pray.

Message #2,

Psalm 17:3

3 Though you probe my heart and examine me at night,
though you test me, you will find nothing;
I have resolved that my mouth will not sin.

Moral - to be pure to answer to God always.
Real Life Application - That when you lie in bed lusting, you know what you should do and what you shouldn't say.

Message #3

Daniel 1:8
8 But Daniel resolved not to defile himself with the royal food and wine, and he asked the chief official for permission not to defile himself this way.

Moral - when others are telling you to violate your understanding of the type of purity that God wants, don't do it.
Life Application - don't let these Babylonians corrupt your purity


Message #4


1 Corinthians 2:2 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Moral - to not rely on arguments and worldly knowledge, but on what you understand abour the message of Jesus Christ and the gospel.
Life Application - you get life instructions on internet forums at your own peril

So there you go resolve, when you come back.

Feryk
25th August 10, 04:47 PM
^ You know, you are not really helping him, don't you?

Spade: The Real Snake
25th August 10, 05:03 PM
Oh, he's helping, alrighty

Cullion
25th August 10, 05:03 PM
I think he should examine his religion in the narrowest and most critical context possible and strip away everything else he's been told as the thoughts of men rather than the word of God.

He will then find that it's okay for him to have sex with more than one woman in certain contexts, and no wedding ceremony need take place.

KO'd N DOA
26th August 10, 11:43 AM
Brother Feryk,

This thread needed a 'devils advocate' to present counter arguments on the spirit of the law, not the letter. In order to avoid Brother Resove doing something in haste, before weighing out the evidence provided, so that he can be at peace with his decision.

I actually have no problem with Cullions advice to Resolve of "sola scriptura", the rallying cry of the protestant churches. Therefore we will let scripture interpret itself.

As Resolve is resolute in his following a christian path, then the words and writtings of the new testiment should be the backdrop for the interpretation of this path.


27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery

Jesus is quoting Exodus 20:14.


28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Notice that the woman here is not identified as a married or single women, just a women. This would be supported well in the ancient poem Job who claimed to be not guilty of this sin.




1 "I made a covenant with my eyes
not to look lustfully at a girl.
2 For what is man's lot from God above,
his heritage from the Almighty on high?
3 Is it not ruin for the wicked,
disaster for those who do wrong?
4 Does he not see my ways
and count my every step?
5 "If I have walked in falsehood
or my foot has hurried after deceit-
6 let God weigh me in honest scales
and he will know that I am blameless-
7 if my steps have turned from the path,
if my heart has been led by my eyes,
or if my hands have been defiled,
8 then may others eat what I have sown,
and may my crops be uprooted.
9 "If my heart has been enticed by a woman,
or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door,
10 then may my wife grind another man's grain,
and may other men sleep with her. 11 For that would have been shameful,
a sin to be judged.


(*emphasis mine)

Now we see the this from the old testiment, that looking lustfully was considered in antiquity of being a sin. And it wasn't only looking after someone elses wife. Job was married and had made an agreement with his eyes not to look at young women.

I debated including the second section of the speach that Jesus said, but context is important. and if I knew how to put spoilers around it I would, resolve, put all your sharp objects away....there we go.



Matthew 5,
29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.


The tricky part following this path is determining, how you could find a women that you would like to marry, and not lust for her. Therefore, I propose that you allow Sociocide to arrange a mariage for you, where you wouldn't have to lust after her yourself.

We help you find her, You get married, and then life is perfect.

(*disclaimer - KO'd does not endorse emasculation or mutilation of ones body, but more as the apostel Paul said tongue in cheek in Galations 5:12 when arguing about point of the law - "As for those agitators - I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves" Funny guy that Paul. )

AAAAAA
26th August 10, 12:34 PM
Message #3

Daniel 1:8
8 But Daniel resolved not to defile himself with the royal food and wine, and he asked the chief official for permission not to defile himself this way.

Moral - when others are telling you to violate your understanding of the type of purity that God wants, don't do it.
Life Application - don't let these Babylonians corrupt your purity


Yeah, like ALL us Babylonians are the same. That's just racist.

KO'd N DOA
26th August 10, 02:55 PM
Yeah, like ALL us Babylonians are the same. That's just racist.

You picked up on that? I at least thought you were going to put forward the argument that Daniel would have been a eunuch, and therefore not have these kinds of dilemmas.

But as I said - I am not in favour of mutilation as a cure- all, and that is not going to help Resolve anyway. You Babylonians are always so draconian.

Artful Dentures
26th August 10, 03:20 PM
You should definitely have sex before marriage - Cause there's no guarantee that you will have sex after marriage.

Amiright AMIRIGHT!!!

Thank you I'll be here all week try the veal!

SifuAbel
26th August 10, 03:35 PM
x64cy3Bcr98

SifuAbel
26th August 10, 08:30 PM
LOL, moleculo.

Kiko
27th August 10, 03:15 PM
http://chzhistoriclols.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/7d611003-1b68-430e-9de9-2f04fc9da016.jpg

Feryk
30th August 10, 05:30 PM
So, Kiko, did you wait for marriage? If not, do you wish you had? Just curious.

FTR, I didn't, and am damn glad I didn't.

Kiko
30th August 10, 07:12 PM
No and no. I'm quite happy about those days. *wistful smile*

SifuAbel
30th August 10, 11:45 PM
If there's two things that are generally lacking in today's school system its a competent sex eduction and sound financial education.

Uptight sexual repression and ignorance leads to the most hair brained misconceptions imaginable. This abstinence crap that's substituting sex ed is a giant step backwards.

It doesn't help that so much of out legislature is dominated by people who learned about sex in the back of a Chevy in 1945.

Feryk
31st August 10, 11:04 AM
What doesn't help is that your religious right is smart, rich, politically motivated and organized and BATSHIT FUCKING INSANE.

Are you watching the Tea Party repackaging Sarah Palin? Wait for it, in a couple years, she'll be a viable candidate for VP.

Kiko
31st August 10, 11:14 AM
What doesn't help is that your religious right is smart, rich, politically motivated and organized and BATSHIT FUCKING INSANE.

Are you watching the Tea Party repackaging Sarah Palin? Wait for it, in a couple years, she'll be a viable candidate for VP.

Smart? As in strategic maybe.. certainly not as in educated, informed or able to think critically. *sigh*

Feryk
31st August 10, 11:17 AM
Smart? As in strategic maybe.. certainly not as in educated, informed or able to think critically. *sigh*

That would be the insane part. But they are very politically saavy and in the last 20 years have developed media awareness that makes the liberal left look stupid.

SifuAbel
31st August 10, 11:24 AM
Maybe she'll actually read some magazine's by 2012. We will see in Nov. if this tea bagger shit is all bluster or is America really that stupid and an amnesiac.

Feryk
31st August 10, 11:39 AM
I'm betting yes.

Ajamil
1st September 10, 03:55 PM
If the Tea Party isn't an official political party - why does the media keep saying they're "winning" elections? It's bothering me. Although it would be funny if they manage what the Green Party never could.

Kiko
1st September 10, 03:58 PM
Wait, this thread is about sex, not politics... you've crossed my wiring and all... *bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzrrrrt!*

Robot Jesus
1st September 10, 03:59 PM
because "tea bagger" is too giggle induceing.

Feryk
1st September 10, 05:12 PM
Wait, this thread is about sex, not politics... you've crossed my wiring and all... *bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzrrrrt!*

It's all about the sex with you, isn't it?

Just sex,sex, sex. Kiko, don't you think about anything else??

Jeez.

Feryk
1st September 10, 05:14 PM
If the Tea Party isn't an official political party - why does the media keep saying they're "winning" elections? It's bothering me. Although it would be funny if they manage what the Green Party never could.

They are a faction within the GOP. They are pulling strings behind the scenes and getting their candidates put into positions of authority, in constituency offices, etc.

Their people are essentially infecting the Republican party and pushing them even further to the right than they are now.

Kiko
1st September 10, 05:15 PM
It's all about the sex with you, isn't it?

Just sex,sex, sex. Kiko, don't you think about anything else??

Jeez.

Not after you mention Teabaggers and Palin. Bleh!

I NEED A NEW PARTY!!!

Ajamil
1st September 10, 05:38 PM
http://rlv.zcache.com/lemon_party_politics_left_you_bitter_lemonparty_ts hirt-p235602637693413544trm7_210.jpg

You didn't just walk, you ran full force and slammed into this one.

Kiko
1st September 10, 05:38 PM
I know better... nice try.

Kein Haar
1st September 10, 10:14 PM
Hay, what's a teh lemon party?

Spade: The Real Snake
1st September 10, 10:41 PM
The Ex-Cops get together and...uh, complain about how their pension sucks

Kein Haar
1st September 10, 11:06 PM
lol but lemon??

HappyOldGuy
1st September 10, 11:10 PM
It's just cop stuff. You know, donuts and billy clubs.

Spade: The Real Snake
2nd September 10, 12:01 AM
lol but lemon??
they're sour and bitter about the shitty pension

Kein Haar
2nd September 10, 02:37 AM
Go on. I'm listening.

Ajamil
2nd September 10, 02:45 AM
It's not just policemen. Any city service squad can join, like the firemen. Here they are making sure to keep up to date with CPR techniques.

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/2297/lemonparty7ds.jpg

Although this is an old picture, cuz they don't recommend the whole breathing for the other person thingie anymore.

Kein Haar
2nd September 10, 02:46 AM
I'm not listening anymore.

nihilist
2nd September 10, 02:49 AM
Talk about your double-rainbow.

Lebell
2nd September 10, 10:46 AM
http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/2297/lemonparty7ds.jpg

Although this is an old picture, cuz they don't recommend the whole breathing for the other person thingie anymore.

Sweet jesus...im sooo glad that isnt the original...good lord...

True story, one time i was cruising for some nice porn on youporn and i came across a movieclip titled gilf, i didnt bother tohold my cursor on the thumbnail and assumed it was a typo for milf.

now i know what a gilf is.

fucking..disturbing..

Feryk
2nd September 10, 02:35 PM
I don't know, and now I don't want to.

If it grosses out Lebell, it will damn sure make me want to vomit.

Ajamil
2nd September 10, 03:31 PM
Lebell thought the "mature" porn category meant "classy."

Big Dozer
6th September 10, 12:07 PM
If youre going to do one night stands. Make sure the feeling is mutual and wear a helmet.

For relationships, I dont cheat. Dedication and trust are big things to me. Even though I travel I dont do the whole "I have a spokane GF, Sacramento GF, Portland GF, Boise GF"...etc. I know a lot of people who do that and I just wont. I am pretty rowdy in most things, but when it comes to relationships I am pretty oldfashioned.

Currently in my life however has been a fun and educational experience in the relationship world. I live in a college town. Pretty much everyone in my area thats my age range, is a student and are from somewhere else. So everyone is in transition. We get into relationships knowing they will be short lived. Its been kinda fun to be honest. Dont want to do this for ever, but enjoying the ride.

WarPhalange
6th September 10, 12:13 PM
Encyclopedia Dramatica has a whole article on SFW porn. Here is another example:

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/6/6d/Porn43.jpg

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Sfw_porn

nihilist
6th September 10, 12:27 PM
If youre going to do one night stands. Make sure the feeling is mutual and wear a helmet.



I would think that the helmet would be kind of goofy.

Better to just put a pillow on the headboard.

Big Dozer
6th September 10, 12:54 PM
I would think that the helmet would be kind of goofy.

Better to just put a pillow on the headboard.

Helmet for the other head....