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lant3rn
19th August 10, 02:14 PM
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutch Muslim group was fined 2,500 euros ($3,200) for publishing a cartoon which suggested the Holocaust was made up or exaggerated by Jews, a Dutch appeals court ruled on Thursday.

The court in the western city of Arnhem overruled an acquittal handed down by a Dutch lower court, saying the cartoon, published on the website of the Arab European League's (AEL) in 2006, was "unnecessarily hurtful."

"The court points out that the European Court of Human Rights, which considers freedom of speech of paramount importance and defends it thoroughly, makes no exception for the denial or trivialization of the Holocaust," the court said.

The court also imposed a 2-year probation period on the AEL.
The cartoon shows two men in Auschwitz looking at several dead bodies. "I don't think they are Jews," says one man. The one man replies: "We have to get to the 6,000,000 (figure) somehow'. Six million Jews were killed during the Holocaust.

The Dutch group says it had no intention of disputing the Holocaust, but wanted instead to highlight what it described as double standards in free speech.

The AEL circulated it in 2006 after a Danish newspaper published a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammad which triggered an outcry among Muslims in many countries.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE67I3ZT20100819

I guess they can't have their hallal and eat it to.

I think the fine is deserved but i also think it sets the wrong precedent concerning the freedom of speech.

I'm conflicted on this conflict i guess.

Cullion
19th August 10, 02:24 PM
Not conflicted at all. Fining them is wrong.

EuropIan
19th August 10, 02:56 PM
Hypocrisy

lant3rn
19th August 10, 03:24 PM
Not conflicted at all. Fining them is wrong.

What about the Muhammed cartoon that had to be retracted to quell the public uproar.

Is this something where the addage " two wrongs don't make a right " applies

EuropIan
19th August 10, 03:25 PM
Which muhammed cartoon are you talking about?

lant3rn
19th August 10, 03:26 PM
Which muhammed cartoon are you talking about?

The one with the lit fuse coming out of the towel wrap on his head.

EuropIan
19th August 10, 03:27 PM
This one?

http://multimedia.jp.dk/archive/00079/Muhammed_tegning_Bom_79952e.jpg

was never retracted and different country

lant3rn
19th August 10, 03:30 PM
yah that's the one. I thought it was printed in a dutch magazine or paper... somekind of dutch media anyway.

EuropIan
19th August 10, 03:30 PM
Danish... Dutch

Learn the difference...And it still wasn't retracted

EuropIan
19th August 10, 03:31 PM
Damn Alaskan ignoramus =D

lant3rn
19th August 10, 03:36 PM
Oh well then... I'm making opinions without understanding the facts.

Then feel free to troll me until i cry blood. I deserve it.

I agree with cullion than, the initial judge had teh correct. The cartoon is in bad taste but should not have been a crime.

EvilSteve
19th August 10, 03:39 PM
So is this to say that when Jews don't control the media, they find a way to control the media anyway?

What astounds me is, why deny the Holocaust? It's an anti-semitic thing to do, but if you're really anti-semitic, wouldn't you be more inclined to lionize the senseless slaughter of Jewish people?

EuropIan
19th August 10, 03:40 PM
Well, it's usually Americans that can't make the distinction.

Here's an easy way to remember:

I'm Danish

Lebell is Dutch


As for the cartoons, It so happens that many European nations have "kinda-sorta" free press. What I mean by this is after the second world war, many European countries began to self censor themselves in regard to hate speech. The odd thing is, is that it usually only applies protection to Jews.

Commodore Pipes
19th August 10, 03:47 PM
So is this to say that when Jews don't control the media, they find a way to control the media anyway?

What astounds me is, why deny the Holocaust? It's an anti-semitic thing to do, but if you're really anti-semitic, wouldn't you be more inclined to lionize the senseless slaughter of Jewish people?

They don't want anyone to have sympathy for Jews, so that it's easier to finish them off.

I'm not being lebellish here. I think that is the mindset of a select group of anti-semites.

Cullion
19th August 10, 04:35 PM
So is this to say that when Jews don't control the media, they find a way to control the media anyway?

What astounds me is, why deny the Holocaust? It's an anti-semitic thing to do, but if you're really anti-semitic, wouldn't you be more inclined to lionize the senseless slaughter of Jewish people?

People who believe in holocaust revisionist theories see the holocaust as a myth because they think Jews made it up or exaggerated it in order to manipulate gentiles' sense of altruism to silence criticism, extract money and keep Israel well armed.

Denying the holocaust is their way of accusing Jews of being the manipulative puppet masters portrayed in 'The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion', which they also tend to believe is real.

bob
19th August 10, 04:37 PM
Here's an easy way to remember:

I'm Danish

Lebell is Dutch




Ok.

So you're the one who's always hate fucking black chicks right?

OZZ
19th August 10, 04:39 PM
Seriously though, the Dutch have been through this cartoon thing several times before..its getting old. First it was Muslims, now the Jews..
I do think there are certain things that shouldn't be made light of..but poor taste is one's right too, I suppose.

Edit: Danes , Dutch..aw, fuck it..I didn't read before I posted. So sue me!
Wasn't it in the Netherlands that that moviemaker was killed for offending Muslims too? Shot down in a parking lot or something?

OZZ
19th August 10, 05:17 PM
Yes, Van Gogh's nephew..killed for criticizing Islam's treatment of women. Gunned down in Amsterdam..

WarPhalange
19th August 10, 06:09 PM
Not conflicted at all. Fining them is wrong.

/thread

AAAhmed46
19th August 10, 06:59 PM
Education is the key, not bullshit image based society rhetoric.

I got a link about some hardcore salafi(wahabbi) scholars, one who was a holocaust denier visit aushwitz(yeah spelling) and come out literally in tears.

http://www.forward.com/articles/130013/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/16/american-muslim-leaders-visit-concentration-camps-learn-holocaust-pay-respects/

Ajamil
19th August 10, 07:16 PM
What did the cartoon look like? And it's kinda funny once you start thinking of all the blacks, gays, gypsies, etc. that are lumped in with the Jews and in essence forgotten about.

lant3rn
19th August 10, 08:06 PM
What did the cartoon look like? And it's kinda funny once you start thinking of all the blacks, gays, gypsies, etc. that are lumped in with the Jews and in essence forgotten about.

I finaly found it

this was the cumulation(apart from another appeal) to this trial here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8234359.stm

that started in 2009

here is the cartoon

http://www.freethehereticaltwo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/HolocaustCartoon.jpg

It's offensive but pretty tame by internet standards.

I also want to take a second to say that i didn't agree with the fine because i hate Muslims. I just thought they were following on and earlier precedent set from a decision that never happened, that took place in another country.....

Yah im an idiot.

EuropIan
19th August 10, 11:37 PM
Ok.

So you're the one who's always hate fucking black chicks right?
I wish ;_;

Adouglasmhor
20th August 10, 01:08 AM
I think we should have a thread on European countries and their stereotypes. Ignore reality and history and just stick to the basics.


Don't bring things in like the oldest existing tartans come from Denmark or Scots being mostly descended from Germanic tribes and not Celts.

Phrost
20th August 10, 09:15 AM
Laws that prevent people from expressing stupid things are more than detrimental to free speech; they're detrimental to natural selection.

How else are you going to identify the idiots if you don't let them speak up?

EvilSteve
20th August 10, 09:49 AM
People who believe in holocaust revisionist theories see the holocaust as a myth because they think Jews made it up or exaggerated it in order to manipulate gentiles' sense of altruism to silence criticism, extract money and keep Israel well armed.

Denying the holocaust is their way of accusing Jews of being the manipulative puppet masters portrayed in 'The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion', which they also tend to believe is real.

Since this is the second time someone has responded to my post seriously, I figure I should probably point out that I was being flip. Unfortunately, delivery suffers when not accompanied by vocal inflection.

danno
20th August 10, 09:26 PM
hypocrisy makes danno MAAAAAAAAAAD