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Cullion
17th August 10, 04:28 AM
Sir Ian Gilmore, the retiring head of the Royal College of Physicians, has today called for all drugs (including cocaine and heroin) to be decriminalised on the grounds that it would reduce crime and make it less dangerous for user's health because they wouldn't be contaminated with as many impurities.

He goes on to suggest that drugs should be available in a regulated way, with addiction being treated as a medical problem. (echoes of Ron Paul's drugs policy).

This comes a few weeks after the head of the legal Bar in England and Wales expressed the same view.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7949342/Cocaine-should-be-legal-says-top-doctor.html

Reason and sanity? or evidence of a British Liberal Elite hopelessly out of touch, trying to make policies which will probably be safe and fun for middle class college students but lead to something like a social apocalypse in the council estates of the UK ?

bob
17th August 10, 04:29 AM
Why do you think it will lead to social apocalypse? Surely drugs can't get any more available in housing estates in the UK.

EuropIan
17th August 10, 05:09 AM
Decriminalisation would take money away from criminals.

What would they seek as new revenue streams?

Cullion
17th August 10, 05:42 AM
Why do you think it will lead to social apocalypse? Surely drugs can't get any more available in housing estates in the UK.

I didn't say I thought it would, I presented it as one of two options.

I'm in favour of treating Cannabis, Ecstasy and Cocaine the same way we treat prostitution in the UK. i.e. some cities allow 'massage parlours' and it's always been legal in private, but it cannot be on sale in the street or anywhere near a residential area, school or playground.

Heroin, PCP and Crack? I'm genuinely not sure.

Lebell
17th August 10, 06:19 AM
Like, ofcourse drugs should be dicriminalised man.
doing anything else would be fascist and unnatural.
drugs arent that bad and it makes you see the universe in like a more total and deep way, you know?
and for all those fascists who are antidrugs and stuff i'd like to say:' thats just your opinion, man!'

Cullion
17th August 10, 06:31 AM
Murder is wrong, but if we criminalise it, it will just go underground.

Wait, what?

Kein Haar
17th August 10, 06:58 AM
Cocaine is arguable. Cannabis is obvious.

Heroin, no. People die from dosaging problems cuz they...well...they wanna get really high (er, low). More is better until it's not...and then they stop breathing abruptly.

Been a number of ODs since January. College aged and below. Gross.

PCP, no. No matter the dosage, enough people go stark-raving mad in a non-progressive and unable-to-predict manner.

Cullion
17th August 10, 07:36 AM
Heroin, no. People die from dosaging problems cuz they...well...they wanna get really high (er, low). More is better until it's not...and then they stop breathing abruptly.

Been a number of ODs since January. College aged and below. Gross.

PCP, no. No matter the dosage, enough people go stark-raving mad in a non-progressive and unable-to-predict manner.

The reason I'm not sure is that you saw these terrible things happen, somewhere that those drugs are already completely illegal.

All of the drugs I listed as 'not sure about' I am aware are horribly dangerous and degrading poisons.

What I'm not sure about is whether criminalising them has reduced usage, and whether decriminalisation could make them in any way safer (the 'public health checks for dangerous impurities' argument).

I'm picturing what the decriminalised heroin or PCP society would be like.

Queues of junkies at the pharmacy on welfare cheque day I should think. (We already have that now in some towns and cities in the UK for methadone which is prescribed for heroin addicts).

Would there be more such addicts than there are now ? I'm genuinely not sure. If the number of addicts went up, it would be a bad idea.

Could their stealing habits be reduced ? Hmm.. maybe, if it decriminalisation made it cheaper and it was no longer sold on credit. Maybe. I'm not really sure here either.

Could we reduce their health complications by supplying them with stuff that's not so contaminated ? Probably.

billy sol hurok
17th August 10, 08:25 AM
Heroin, no. People die from dosaging problems cuz they...well...they wanna get really high (er, low). More is better until it's not...and then they stop breathing abruptly.

Doesn't that argue more strongly for regulated dosages/quality?

I mean, the local bartender has the obligation to cut you off when she thinks you've had "enough." Why not the local smack tavern?

Lebell
17th August 10, 08:58 AM
we should legalise everything.
its the perfect solution to crime.
lets start with tax evasion.

nihilist
17th August 10, 09:08 AM
People should have the freedom to get high, low and OD whenever they desire.

Make it really cheap so that addicts can get all fucked up without having to rob and assault little old ladies.

Lebell
17th August 10, 09:27 AM
we should legalise robbing old ladies.

KO'd N DOA
17th August 10, 09:50 AM
Some old people I know - who have never tried anything harder then hard alcohol, have lived a full productive life, but have constantly heard the misery of drugs, on of its glorification in music, culture, and the evening news.

They would like to try each one once...to see what the big deal was. Why people would choose drugs use over something else. Also if it could numb that pain in their hip they have lived with for 30 years.

Geriatric recreational drug tourism. A niche market, with lots of disposable income.

Cullion
17th August 10, 09:54 AM
I plan to dabble a little bit once I'm old enough to not be responsible for a job or child-rearing any more.

KO'd N DOA
17th August 10, 10:30 AM
^ a new potential client. Not nearly old enough for the target demographic but demonstrative.

SoulMechanic
17th August 10, 10:59 AM
I think the majority of old people are addicted to some drug or another.

EuropIan
17th August 10, 11:02 AM
Decriminalisation would take money away from criminals.

What would they seek as new revenue streams?
srs kwestun

SoulMechanic
17th August 10, 11:04 AM
Bootleg Gameboys and Burberry swag.

Cullion
17th August 10, 11:06 AM
I don't think it's right to think of crime levels as a zero-sum game. It's quite possible many of those criminals would just find crime not paying any more. Some would go straight, perhaps running a legal cafe etc.. some would be so against the whole idea of any kind of legitimate 9-5 they'd switch to other crimes.

Wherever there are sales taxes on a legal thing, there's usually smuggling (as with cigarettes and booze). I expect there would be 'legal' cafes still buying stuff without paying the tax, but it might be possible to make it financially not worth it.

Robot Jesus
17th August 10, 12:47 PM
a sane legal stance on drugs, based on social cost instead of what some suffragette bitch thought about Mexicans, could do a lot to change drug culture. to many, every debunked denouncement of "devil reefer" eventually becomes an endorsement of heroin.

while we're on the subject, what the word on the Californian prop to legalize pot? likely to pass, or are the Mormons getting in on this one as well?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
17th August 10, 01:01 PM
I haven't seen many campaigns either way on that prop.

I don't know if it's a huge issue to Californians. Polls show that most wouldn't mind pot being legalized. My own anecdotal experience in a fairly red-leaning, family values kind of neighborhood (for California) is that adults who catch kids who aren't their own smoking just say, "lol, stoners!!" and go on with their day.

Kein Haar
17th August 10, 03:17 PM
Doesn't that argue more strongly for regulated dosages/quality?

I mean, the local bartender has the obligation to cut you off when she thinks you've had "enough." Why not the local smack tavern?

The basic narcotic nature of why heroin is good is wrapped in the fact that it can kill you. The packaging can say whatever you want...the basic nature of tolerance remains, and the basic nature of the mind-fuck it produces remains. MoAR is always gonna seem better. And if the shit is watered down to create a shitty high, then it's not worth it. People want to get PROFOUNDLY LIT.

The danger is in the fact that 1 nano-measurement too much will shut your ass down...accidentally. That will not happen with cocaine, or weed, or shrooms, or booze etc.

And it doesn't matter how cheap it is...because if a given quanity is 5 dollars, the addict will eventually have zero and need to get more. So he's gotta get the $5 from somewhere. It doesn't really matter that it used to be $20...cuz he's still penniless. It's not like he intends to steal exactly $5 of stuff to get one fix. When he goes car-hopping to support is $5-per-fix habit he's gonna horde as much as he can just like when it used to be $20.00. Just saying.

Ajamil
17th August 10, 03:29 PM
Decriminalisation would take money away from criminals.

What would they seek as new revenue streams?What did the mafias do once alcohol became legal again?


Would there be more such addicts than there are now ? I'm genuinely not sure. If the number of addicts went up, it would be a bad idea. I think they would, for a time. A number of drugs can be addicting from the first experience, and without the stigma of legal punishment I think more people would be willing to try it, and have it be available to try.

HappyOldGuy
17th August 10, 11:49 PM
Extra credit for the class if anyone can name the one addictive substance that we have successfully reduced the use of over the last 30 years.

SoulMechanic
17th August 10, 11:52 PM
Modeling glue.

bob
18th August 10, 12:06 AM
Legalisation may end outright criminal behaviour but it would probably mean an explosion in corruption. Just think about the potential influence of (legal) Big Narcotics and their bags of loot on future governments.

lant3rn
18th August 10, 12:10 AM
without the stigma of legal punishment I think more people would be willing to try it, and have it be available to try.

I'm kind of tired of this non sequitur.

I don't believe the legality of a drug has ever once stopped someone from trying it. There are way better reasons not to do heroin than because it's illegal.

Iscariot
18th August 10, 12:23 AM
Legalising drugs will mean there's better prosecution of those bringing in illegal untaxed drugs. The police couldn't give two shits about anything and if letting them go means less paperwork then they will, and do. If you legalise the fun stuff enforcement passes over to HM Customs and Excise, good luck going up against them if they don't think they're getting their cut.

The simple fact is that we're already paying for drug treatments and the various agencies are laughably incompetent at keeping drugs out of the country. If we legalise them and tax the shit out of them like we do with tobacco we'll make money. Fact, even with treatment for smoking related illnesses and all the advertising and quit smoking campaigns, tax on tobacco contributes more to Britain than the downsides remove. It's the reason it hasn't been outright banned on the spot. Liquid E? We don't tax that, ban it in a month.

Ajamil
18th August 10, 12:25 AM
Sure there are, just as there are better reasons to not go 50 MPH in a 25 MPH zone, but I think "cause we'd get in trouble" is still a big factor. Why do you think it's a non sequitur?

lant3rn
18th August 10, 12:38 AM
Sure there are, just as there are better reasons to not go 50 MPH in a 25 MPH zone, but I think "cause we'd get in trouble" is still a big factor. Why do you think it's a non sequitur?

Driving and doing drugs aren't the same thing. They also don't make a good analogies of another. (At least not in the way you used it.)


There is obviously i tremendous amount of people who use illegal drugs recreationaly.( Despite the laws on the books) So many so that i would agree with Iscariot in saying the law is pretty much ineffectual.

Making it illegal just forces the activity underground. Like any prohibition has always done. You would be hard pressed to find evidence of when popular substances become illegal relating to a significant decline in their use.

EuropIan
18th August 10, 12:42 AM
What did the mafias do once alcohol became legal again?

.
Racketeering, extortion and other drugs.

The 2 former are getting harder to do.

Ajamil
18th August 10, 01:06 AM
Driving and doing drugs aren't the same thing. They also don't make a good analogies of another. (At least not in the way you used it.)Alright. Would you take statutory rape? Dog fighting? How about Asian Indians coming to the US, and the first thing they do is have a hamburger? The point is there are some people who avoid things simply because of the fact that they are against the law. Removing that barrier will increase the number of people who will try it - even if only once.

Making it illegal just forces the activity underground. Like any prohibition has always done. You would be hard pressed to find evidence of when popular substances become illegal relating to a significant decline in their use.Only when talking about recreational drugs. CFCs, DDT, and asbestos come to mind.

Racketeering, extortion and other drugs.

The 2 former are getting harder to do.Not entirely certain on the difference between racketeering and extortion, but basically bullying people into giving you money, yes? There's also smuggling non narcotics like guns, art, electronics - basically the black market. Also prostitution.

WarPhalange
18th August 10, 01:36 AM
We should make mustard gas legal again.

Ajamil
18th August 10, 02:13 AM
OK, silly examples, but is a lot of the problem the idea of personal use/harm versus public? The right to privacy an all that?

EuropIan
18th August 10, 02:17 AM
It has also a lot to do with moral policing.

There's a reason that drug crimes fall under vice in the US.

Ajamil
18th August 10, 02:26 AM
Would you consider it moral policing if the city planners stopped you from using lead paint in your house?

SoulMechanic
18th August 10, 02:36 AM
I do, I want my asbestos put back in my insulation now!

EuropIan
18th August 10, 02:37 AM
I was talking about recreational drug use.

Ironically enough, paint sniffing is technically legal.

nihilist
18th August 10, 06:45 AM
Would you consider it moral policing if the city planners stopped you from using lead paint in your house?

Since lead doesn't get you high then the answer is yes.

Robot Jesus
18th August 10, 02:32 PM
Cocaine is arguable. Cannabis is obvious.

Heroin, no. People die from dosaging problems cuz they...well...they wanna get really high (er, low). More is better until it's not...and then they stop breathing abruptly.

Been a number of ODs since January. College aged and below. Gross.

PCP, no. No matter the dosage, enough people go stark-raving mad in a non-progressive and unable-to-predict manner.


could you expand on this post

Kein Haar
18th August 10, 06:48 PM
I would, except I don't know in which direction you'd like me to go.

Cullion
19th August 10, 04:42 AM
PCP stories plz.

Kein Haar
19th August 10, 04:54 AM
There's just one, but it seems like everyone I run into from other departments also has exactly one.

I'm pretty sure I told this.

Someone reported a fight at a tavern. It was a group of guys who beat up an individual. He was beat up by black guys, so I'm pretty sure he was dropping the nig bomb at the tavern based on how he was talking later. He eventually wandered off before we got there, but appeared a little later in the area of his own neighborhood knocking on random people's doors.

He was bleeding from the head and mildly disoriented, so I called an ambulance. Then get got progressively energetic and violent toward the paramedic, so I took him to the lock-up instead.

Then he calmed down a little...then he freaked out REALLY bad.

When a person reacts badly, they go in regular waves of approximately 20 minutes of stupidity and then another comparable period of time of relative calm.

So he probably went through two of those at lock-up, til it was clear they were getting worse, and he was much more than drunk.

In total, it was like a 3 hour ordeal of these regular intervals of freak outs until he went to the hospital strapped down screaming and spitting. Not sure how much longer it lasted after that.

It first appeared that he was a drunk who decided to get progressively belligerent. Drunks go up and down as far as attitude, but not in terms of being basically coherent. This guy went up and down in terms of general (dis)orientation and violence. Plus, drunks have nowhere near the sustained energy this guy expended.

It was pretty clear that my dude did not intend to take it, but got some doctored weed.He came in the next day to apologize too. He was a middle class, homeowner, whiteman with doctored cannabis.

A few weeks ago, we (not me) caught some niggers with a very significant quantity of PCP, so...it's clearly floating around out there for the purpose of giving oregano some cheap potency.

Lebell
19th August 10, 08:10 AM
when i grow up i wanna be a racist white cop too.

nihilist
19th August 10, 10:09 AM
So you never want to be a cop?

Kein Haar
19th August 10, 03:14 PM
Oh, goodness...lebell is distracted by my "racism".

These guys are not "african american young men". They are niggers. Useful shorthand.

agA64XMuU30&

And this his hilltrash:

zYm93gAjmhQ&

If someone can think of a word for silly low income white people which makes libtards extremely uncomfortable cuz racial insensitivity, please tell me...cuz I'll use it.

Ajamil
19th August 10, 08:12 PM
Those singers seem to have a serious incontinence problem. And why don't any of their "homage" cars have references to African American heritage? I saw Scarface and Roadrunner and Spiderman and Hulk and sports teams, but no jazz musicians, no Malcolm X, no Luke Cage, no Tupac...disappointing.

lant3rn
19th August 10, 08:18 PM
Stop Profiling NID,

you lazy honky pig

EPGx1icFdLQ

Lebell
20th August 10, 02:59 AM
Stop Profiling NID,

you lazy honky pig

EPGx1icFdLQ

hahahha!
that black guy wore a suit like a normal person!
thats funny!
oh i know! they should dress one up and pretend he's a policeofficer!
lololol!

Kein Haar
20th August 10, 03:14 AM
what

Robot Jesus
20th August 10, 04:36 PM
I've always wondered what would happen if you dosed someone with lsd pcp and crystal meth, ducktapped them into a suit of combat armor with a constant loop of heavy metal on an Ipod, ducktapped baseball bats to their hands. and let them out in a populated area.

Kiko
20th August 10, 06:17 PM
I've always wondered what would happen if you dosed someone with lsd pcp and crystal meth, ducktapped them into a suit of combat armor with a constant loop of heavy metal on an Ipod, ducktapped baseball bats to their hands. and let them out in a populated area.

For one thing, someone would put videos on youtube. At least I would HOPE they'd have a camera ready... Btw, that's a lot of duct tape.

Cullion
20th August 10, 06:47 PM
I've always wondered what would happen if you dosed someone with lsd pcp and crystal meth, ducktapped them into a suit of combat armor with a constant loop of heavy metal on an Ipod, ducktapped baseball bats to their hands. and let them out in a populated area.

I woke up 5 years later, and found I had a beautiful house, and children.

It's actually pretty cool.

SoulMechanic
21st August 10, 04:08 PM
I want to hear funny stories like Nid busting kids so high they peepee'd their pants or of him pulling some dude over for a busted tail light to find him wearing nothing more then one nipple paisty and a tangerine colored speedo.

Kein Haar
21st August 10, 05:10 PM
I stopped someone for drifting over the double yellow, but then he took me on a high speed chase, and upon capture we came close to dropping a knee on his colostomy bag. His pupils were to big I couldn't decipher an iris. Mainly cocaine in his system with a little heroin to take the edge off.

I went undercover with my honda fit after getting a tip for a burglary later that night. I caught him while prying open the door, and he fled from the Fit in his chevy tahoe, and indeed peed his pants before an actual squad car stopped him.

WarPhalange
21st August 10, 10:09 PM
I've always wondered what would happen if you dosed someone with lsd pcp and crystal meth, ducktapped them into a suit of combat armor with a constant loop of heavy metal on an Ipod, ducktapped baseball bats to their hands. and let them out in a populated area.

They'd probably just start foaming at the mouth, keel over, and die.

Cullion
22nd August 10, 07:35 AM
They probably wouldn't unless the dosages were extreme. If they died it would be more likely because they did something insane, like trying to drive.

Ajamil
22nd August 10, 07:38 AM
I'd think most people would have trouble driving if baseball bats were duct taped to their hands.

KO'd N DOA
23rd August 10, 01:31 PM
Tell them those bats are wings...

Robot Jesus
23rd August 10, 02:33 PM
now that I think on it, small axes would work better.

Kein Haar
23rd August 10, 03:09 PM
aka hatchets.

SoulMechanic
24th August 10, 01:47 AM
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/deadninjette/rtityy9lb.gifhttp://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w126/juggalonephew_89/hATCHETMAN.gifhttp://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/deadninjette/rtityy9lb.gif
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w126/juggalonephew_89/hATCHETMAN.gifhttp://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w126/juggalonephew_89/hATCHETMAN.gifhttp://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w126/juggalonephew_89/hATCHETMAN.gif

WHOOP WHOOP

Kein Haar
24th August 10, 02:01 AM
That's really ...um...cutting edge.

nihilist
24th August 10, 02:17 AM
On Sociocide today, we have more than our share of the nattering Nid-bobs if negativism.