PDA

View Full Version : Men shouldn't do housework



Craigypooh
4th August 10, 02:12 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/7926441/Why-men-can-shirk-housework.html


Wives who claim their husbands should help out more around the house because women work a "double shift" at the office and in the home are misguided, according to research.

If both paid work and unpaid duties such as housework, care and voluntary work are taken into account, husbands actually contribute more than their fair share to the household, experts found.

According to a study of how people use their time, men in Britain spend marginally longer on "productive" work each day than women.

While many wives scale back their working hours or drop out of employment after having children, husbands will often work overtime to earn more income for the family.

Across Europe men and women spend the same number of hours on "productive" work each day, each working on average eight hours either in paid jobs or on unpaid duties.

Couples who have no children at home and who both have full time jobs are the only group where women's overall workload is greater than men's, the survey reported.

Dr Catherine Hakim, who carried out the study, said: "This data overturns the well-entrenched theory that women work disproportional long hours in jobs and at home in juggling family and work.

"Feminists constantly complain that men are not doing their fair share of domestic work. The reality is that most men already do more than their fair share."
Justine Roberts, co-founder of Mumsnet, said: "What would be more informative would be to compare working men and working women.

"The evidence we have is that working women still pick up the bulk of the domestic responsibilities – the housework, all the stuff like organising the children's birthday parties and helping them with their homework."

The study, (How) can social policy and fiscal policy recognise unpaid family work?, found that only 14 per cent of women in Britain prefer a work-centred lifestyle, compared with 69 per cent who would rather combine work and family life, and 17 per cent who feel the home is more important.

In spite of this, government policies across Europe tend to be aimed at full-time worker carers and ignore unpaid work, Dr Hakim claimed.

She said: "One-sided policies that support employment and careers but ignore the productive work done in the family are, in effect, endorsing market place values over family values.

"Furthermore, there is evidence that men are beginning to demand the same options and choices as women, with more claims of sex discrimination from men. Policy-makers need to be aiming for gender-neutral policies."

Peter Lynas, from the Relationships Foundation, a Cambridge based think tank, added: "Whether it’s paid or unpaid work, men and women are under pressure to spend time with their families. This report shows that the majority want to combine work and family, but many need help to do so.

"The Government is pushing ahead with the ‘Big Society’ agenda without families, which should be the most important element."


tldr version - Experts have found men work harder than women and therefore shouldn't have to share housework duty.

Well that clears that up. Notice people that it's "experts" who have said this, so there's no room for any argument.

SoulMechanic
4th August 10, 02:48 PM
This is hardly mind blowing. I knew this shit for years.

OZZ
4th August 10, 02:48 PM
All I know is I do more than my fair share plus I do all the 'man jobs' (carrying heavy stuff, chopping wood, shovelling snow etc.) and there are no 'woman jobs' anymore because that is chauvanism..nice double standard.
I would rather that I be the one who does the dishes anyways because my wife does a shitty job.

Truculent Sheep
4th August 10, 02:59 PM
I'm very good at cleaning. She's shit-hot at cooking. It balances out.

Kiko
4th August 10, 05:57 PM
Mr. K has always been a better housekeeper than me. I get chores done, but apparently I'm better at.. how does he put it now... oh, yes... "SPENDING MY MONEY!!" (on stuff like food and other stuff we usually need) *shrug*

Harpy
4th August 10, 06:29 PM
In my experience, men are really good at house and yard work. I don't know why but they seem to do it with no resentment, no thoughts of having to be acknowledged and don't sweat the small stuff (this doesn't mean they do a half-arsed job though, they really put effort into it).

Ajamil
4th August 10, 06:33 PM
Give me a schedule and I can chore like nobody's business. I just need - as my Dad used to put it - an external brain (someone else) to figure out what to do and when.

fes_fsa
4th August 10, 06:38 PM
this is very true, and my husband does almost NONE of the domestics. my family and feminist friends believe that my husband exploits my position as housewife, by making me do all the work, while he sits back and does nothing. they don't seem to understand my willingness to work. the point of marriage is to make things easier on each other, and while it seems that he has it easier, i'm able to stay home and do more for my kids, i can focus more on myself, and i don't EVER have to worry about money--this is a luxury that most women can't afford. really... all the burden is on HIM. sucker.

Truculent Sheep
4th August 10, 07:08 PM
My history teacher (awful woman, but that's another rant) once told us about what her very traditional mother did every day 'oop north'. While her husband worked his knackers off in heavy industry, she undertook an almost insane array of household cleaning and dinner cooking so he could come in, eat dinner, gesticulate to his daughters and then collapse into unconsciousness while she could hold her head up high amongst her neighbours because she maintained the same high standards they all did or aimed for. This sort of tight domestic unit pretty much defined working class life in much of the country until the 70s and the decline of industry swept it away.

A lot has changed since. She used a mangle and washed everything by hand. It was a different time.

Spade: The Real Snake
4th August 10, 07:09 PM
Mr. K has always been a better housekeeper than me. I get chores done, but apparently I'm better at.. how does he put it now... oh, yes... "SPENDING MY MONEY!!" (on stuff like food and other stuff we usually need) *shrug*
well get the fuck off Sociocide and go visit your lonely vacuum, woman.
U GOT U SUM TIGHTYWHITEYS WUT NEED IRONIN

Kiko
4th August 10, 07:18 PM
I worked today. I made 'em all some tuna for supper. And they were GRATEFUL!

Shaddap!

EuropIan
4th August 10, 07:19 PM
wait. You just opened a can of tuna, didn't you?

Kiko
4th August 10, 07:21 PM
Not hardly... at least 6. Lemme see what I put in it... um... relish, onion, parsley, tarragon, dill, a bit of sherry, mayo, white pepper and probably some other stuff I can't remember.

It's really to humid to cook.

EuropIan
4th August 10, 07:23 PM
what kind of relish? type slower

Cullion
4th August 10, 07:23 PM
I cook and do some of the cleaning at weekends. I pay all the bills. That's a fair division of labour as far as I'm concerned.

Some of my peers consider this a victorian attitude. When I'm in the mood for irl trolling I ask them if their stay at home wives/girlfriends do as much work as their mothers' did.

They tend to go quiet and look at their shoes.

Kiko
4th August 10, 07:24 PM
It was either sweet or India. Why?

EuropIan
4th August 10, 07:25 PM
yeah but they couldn't fuck their mothers so it evens out.

bob
4th August 10, 07:25 PM
I'm reasonably good at getting household stuff done. My wife is quite good at telling me how it could have been done better. It's a fair arrangement.

EuropIan
4th August 10, 07:26 PM
sound like a good tuna salad.... s'all

Ajamil
4th August 10, 08:02 PM
Some of my peers consider this a victorian attitude. When I'm in the mood for irl trolling I ask them if their stay at home wives/girlfriends do as much work as their mothers' did.

They tend to go quiet and look at their shoes.If it were India, the wife would come live with the husband's family. There the mother would teach the wife how to behave for her son by teaching her daughter how to take care of the ailing patriarch. I was a beautiful passive-aggressive system just perfect for a woman.

This thread reminds me of the poem about the daily life of a frontierswoman, though I can't seem to find it.

Harpy
4th August 10, 08:06 PM
It's about realising that education and money can leave a woman in a position where she does not have to do slave labour for a man for fear that he would leave her destitute.

The women who still persist in working, looking after children, cooking and cleaning and not helping us move forward toward true equality.

Cullion
4th August 10, 08:11 PM
Lily, you live in a delusional world you learned from books and TV that doesn't take into account real division of labour.

fes_fsa
4th August 10, 08:11 PM
If it were India, the wife would come live with the husband's family. There the mother would teach the wife how to behave for her son by teaching her daughter how to take care of the ailing patriarch. I was a beautiful passive-aggressive system just perfect for a woman.

i actually plan to do this, but actively-aggressive. my sons are going places and anybody who attempts to stand by them will have to deal with me as a mother in law. if a girl (or guy) is worthy enough to marry one of my sons, she shall receive a copy of my SUPER EFFICIENT + ECONOMICAL WORK JOURNAL.

Zendetta
4th August 10, 08:12 PM
this is very true, and my husband does almost NONE of the domestics. my family and feminist friends believe that my husband exploits my position as housewife, by making me do all the work, while he sits back and does nothing. they don't seem to understand my willingness to work. the point of marriage is to make things easier on each other, and while it seems that he has it easier, i'm able to stay home and do more for my kids, i can focus more on myself, and i don't EVER have to worry about money--this is a luxury that most women can't afford. really... all the burden is on HIM. sucker.

Doesn't he work twelve hour shifts on a fucking oilrig or some other hardass, roughneck shit?!??!??!?

Tell those feminazi bitches to shut the fuck up.

Cullion
4th August 10, 08:12 PM
i actually plan to do this, but actively-aggressive. my sons are going places and anybody who attempts to stand by them will have to deal with me as a mother in law. if a girl (or guy) is worthy enough to marry one of my sons, she shall receive a copy of my SUPER EFFICIENT + ECONOMICAL WORK JOURNAL.

I expect you'll fuck them up if they leave dust on the windowsills or crumbs under the dinner table too.

That's at the heart of what keeps society's standards from falling apart. Fierce mothers in law.

bob
4th August 10, 08:14 PM
i actually plan to do this, but actively-aggressive. my sons are going places and anybody who attempts to stand by them will have to deal with me as a mother in law. if a girl (or guy) is worthy enough to marry one of my sons, she shall receive a copy of my SUPER EFFICIENT + ECONOMICAL WORK JOURNAL.

Make sure you tell them that a loyal wife lets your sons fuck other women while they watch.

Ajamil
4th August 10, 08:14 PM
The women who still persist in working, looking after children, cooking and cleaning and not helping us move forward toward true equality.So who should work? Care for the children? Cook? Clean? I don't care which person does which but Fes was right - marriage is to make it easier for both persons and it's a lot easier to have the duties defined instead of trying to figure out who should do what each time the necessity arises.

Harpy
4th August 10, 08:14 PM
Lily, you live in a delusional world you learned from books and TV that doesn't take into account real division of labour.

I'm actually basing it on my situation. I was also somewhat trolling.

Cullion
4th August 10, 08:20 PM
Your opinion can't possibly be based on your situation because you've haven't raised a child yet.

fes_fsa
4th August 10, 08:22 PM
Make sure you tell them that a loyal wife lets your sons fuck other women while they watch.

that's really between my son and daughter (or son) in law.

but the idea does seem pretty hawt.

"let me show you how a wife is supposed to make love with the help of my German creampie gangbang assistant, Ingrid. Ingrid, come here and straddle my face. that's right. your husband can help... or he can watch. it's okay to like it."

OZZ
5th August 10, 11:17 AM
The thing that annoys me about my own personal situation regarding the 'division of labour' is that I have several jobs around the house that are 'exclusively' mine like, emptying the dehumidifier on a daily basis (during the warm months) , snow shovelling, emptying the compost pail,cutting the grass/weed whacking, cleaning the bird shit off the outdoor furniture, taking the garbage/recycle out to the curb and any job that requires even minimal strength.Gardening..while not really a chore, tends to be something I take care of more than her as far as maintenance, weeding etc.
While I really don't care that much about DOING these jobs , what I am annoyed with is the fact that Mrs.Ozz has almost NO chores that are exclusive to her...emptying the cat litter is one that she does MOST of the time, laundry - but while she may divide the whites and darks and throw them in the machines I am usually the one who folds and puts away the clothes, so even that job is not exclusively hers. Cooking- she does most of, but it sure as hell ain't what it used to be. I am lucky to get three good meals a week now... the rest of the time I am fending for myself. Ten years ago I got a nice dinner every damn night.
Shopping, more often than not I get dragged along ..and the vacumming, mopping, general cleaning etc. is pretty much my domain, but she does do some of it -when she feels like it.
In her defense, my wife, in addition to her full time job, does invest a ton of her energy into our side business (buying and selling antique and mid century furniture) she does most of the refininishing, repairs etc. and deals with the emails, phone calls etc. That side business brings us in a considerable income so its not like she sits around. In fact, I can't get her to relax most of the time..she is a busybody from the moment she awakens.
So overall, it pretty much evens out I guess..I just wish that she cared as much about our home as she does about making money with our business.

Spade: The Real Snake
5th August 10, 11:28 AM
You guys need to get a girlfriend who can help the wife out with the household chores.

fes_fsa
5th August 10, 12:14 PM
ozz... if you want her to care more about your home, then YOU need to put more time into making money. she already has a full time job and works her ass off for your side business--she's probably too tired to be houseproud.

Cullion
5th August 10, 12:32 PM
The thing that annoys me about my own personal situation regarding the 'division of labour' is that I have several jobs around the house that are 'exclusively' mine like, emptying the dehumidifier on a daily basis (during the warm months) , snow shovelling, emptying the compost pail,cutting the grass/weed whacking, cleaning the bird shit off the outdoor furniture, taking the garbage/recycle out to the curb and any job that requires even minimal strength.Gardening..while not really a chore, tends to be something I take care of more than her as far as maintenance, weeding etc.
While I really don't care that much about DOING these jobs , what I am annoyed with is the fact that Mrs.Ozz has almost NO chores that are exclusive to her...emptying the cat litter is one that she does MOST of the time, laundry - but while she may divide the whites and darks and throw them in the machines I am usually the one who folds and puts away the clothes, so even that job is not exclusively hers. Cooking- she does most of, but it sure as hell ain't what it used to be. I am lucky to get three good meals a week now... the rest of the time I am fending for myself. Ten years ago I got a nice dinner every damn night.
Shopping, more often than not I get dragged along ..and the vacumming, mopping, general cleaning etc. is pretty much my domain, but she does do some of it -when she feels like it.
In her defense, my wife, in addition to her full time job, does invest a ton of her energy into our side business (buying and selling antique and mid century furniture) she does most of the refininishing, repairs etc. and deals with the emails, phone calls etc. That side business brings us in a considerable income so its not like she sits around. In fact, I can't get her to relax most of the time..she is a busybody from the moment she awakens.
So overall, it pretty much evens out I guess..I just wish that she cared as much about our home as she does about making money with our business.

I don't know how much money we're talking about here, but if you're both working full time and running a side business together then you could consider hiring some help around the house.

Ajamil
5th August 10, 03:07 PM
You guys need to get a girlfriend who can help the wife out with the household chores.
You think polygamy was a man's idea? It was so a wife could take a breather every now and again. Give the nasty chores to the second or third wife, and she also is younger so will have to deal the annoying dick-support system pestering her at night.

Spade: The Real Snake
5th August 10, 03:09 PM
You think polygamy was a man's idea? It was so a wife could take a breather every now and again. Give the nasty chores to the second or third wife, and she also is younger so will have to deal the annoying dick-support system pestering her at night.
I'm not seeing a downside.....
except for stereo naggin

SoulMechanic
5th August 10, 03:19 PM
I feel sorry for lilys husband. Does he tend to hit the bottle frequently. Overeat, always out playing fantasy football??? How does he cope I wonder.

bob
5th August 10, 03:36 PM
The times in my wife's life when she briefly entered a hyper-tidy house-proud mode, like when she was pregnant, were actually quite creepy and disturbing and made me appreciate the virtues of being a bit more relaxed about these things.

Ajamil
5th August 10, 03:38 PM
I feel sorry for lilys husband. Does he tend to hit the bottle frequently. Overeat, always out playing fantasy football??? How does he cope I wonder.He introduced her to internet forums.


I'm not seeing a downside.....
except for stereo nagginWho said there was a downside? The only Vedic stipulation is you have to be able to afford to give your wives what they ask for.

Spade: The Real Snake
5th August 10, 03:42 PM
Who said there was a downside? The only Vedic stipulation is you have to be able to afford to give your wives what they ask for.

oh they'll be askin for it, alright.

Ajamil
5th August 10, 03:46 PM
Careful when there's two of em - they can sleep in shifts.

Spade: The Real Snake
5th August 10, 03:55 PM
Oh they'll be sleepin in shifts alright.

KO'd N DOA
5th August 10, 04:26 PM
How did I miss this thread?

I may never wash another dish again.

bob
5th August 10, 04:27 PM
How did I miss this thread?

I may never wash another dish again.

You should use illegals for that.

Get with the program.

Spade: The Real Snake
5th August 10, 04:52 PM
You should use illegals for that.

Get with the program.
He's in Canada.
For him Illegals=Americans

and CHARLIE DON'T SURF

KO'd N DOA
6th August 10, 09:01 AM
Pulled the 'man no do dish' mantra last night...lets just say not all good ideas from the internet will fly IRL.

Scrapper
6th August 10, 10:03 AM
My wife and I are pretty traditional. It works, and she doesn't feel like it's demeaning. Hell, she has a masters degree and I have no degree, but we figured out earlier that I can generate far more money than she can, ergo, I go to work. We both put in the same hours at the end of the day, and it all goes toward the advancement of "Team Scrapper."

So I work 60 hours a week and travel a lot, and she stays home with the kid and maintains the household. First of all, she is way better at it than I am, and any time I try to help I just "do it wrong" and she has to re-do it all anyway.

On weekends, we split he child care and cooking duties, and I handle the kid at night so she can sleep through.

People have given her a hard tiome for being "subjugated." A lot of her professional friends don't understand how an educated woman can live that way.

To us, it's jsut a fair division of labor. If she could out-earn me, than I would stay home, but SOMEONE has to provide the resources, and it turns out that I am better suited for that role. Trust me, as soon as she gets that mid-six-figure offer, I am quitting my job and she can go to work.

Feminists are weird. It's still just sexism to me.

Cullion
6th August 10, 12:37 PM
People have given her a hard tiome for being "subjugated." A lot of her professional friends don't understand how an educated woman can live that way.

Ever notice how the same people rarely question whether a career woman is 'subjugated' by her employer ?

There's a good reason the Rockefeller foundation donated so much money to feminist causes.

OZZ
6th August 10, 02:19 PM
ozz... if you want her to care more about your home, then YOU need to put more time into making money. she already has a full time job and works her ass off for your side business--she's probably too tired to be houseproud.

Well, its all about priorities isn't it? The side business started off as a hobby to give her some fulfillment and has now ballooned into the equivalent of a full-time venture.She chooses to take on more than she can handle ALL THE TIME and has always done so..our goddamn backyard is almost 200 feet , the garden is a part time job in itself.
She puts the business ahead of our home and I don't fucking like it. We aren't going to go broke without the side business, trust me. Our house is paid for...we don't owe the bank a cent.
And yes, I think calling Molly Maid is definitely in the cards. But of course, Angelika is adverse to having strangers in the home..so that has to be done without her knowledge.
I would agree that I need to be making more money than I am at present, but the teaching jobs in this region have evaporated over the past two years and its certainly not for lack of trying on my part. Its so bad in this county right now that I have started to consider moving just to get a secure full time position somewhere. And that prospect opens a whole new can of worms as well..it sucks.
Anyways, I could be pulling in $150,000 a year and my wife would still bust her ass to make the business profitable - that is just the way she is.
But I appreciate you sticking up for her Fes..I know she would too.:redface:

Cullion
6th August 10, 02:34 PM
Dude, it's really about division of labour. If you're both working and running a side business, you're both more than pulling your weight.

Don't call Molly Maid in secret though, that could easily lead to an ugly scene.
Talk her into it with whatever charm you used to get her to marry you.

Definitely don't phrase whatever you say as if you don't think she's doing a good enough job herself.

fes_fsa
6th August 10, 02:43 PM
Definitely don't phrase whatever you say as if you don't think she's doing a good enough job herself.

but she isn't. she's putting the business ahead of their home when they don't really need the money. this is a bad thing... and you should talk to her about it, ozz.

also... was she the way she is when you married her? or was she a tidy housekeeper?

some people aren't cut out for housework. i know my husband isn't, so i don't ask for his help. if your wife wasn't a housekeeper to begin with... it wouldn't really be fair to ask her to start being one now.

Cullion
6th August 10, 03:05 PM
She doesn't need to put the home ahead if she's contributing in some other meaningful and measurable way, does she ?

When I counter-troll people who say I'm being Victorian, it's not because 'woman must get fucking pie on the table!', it's because I know they're involved in a one-sided deal where they work far more hours than their lazy concubine and they don't know how to deal with because they've been brainwashed by school and TV.

Ozz doesn't sound like he's dealing with a lazy trollop who cries 'male chauvinist pig!' whenever somebody asks when was the last time she chipped a fingernail.

He's just got a wife who's more into the business than the housework. That's alright, it just means they can pay somebody else to do the stuff neither of them want to do.

fes_fsa
6th August 10, 03:58 PM
She doesn't need to put the home ahead if she's contributing in some other meaningful and measurable way, does she ?
what is she working towards? what's the point in contributing when her husband is unhappy? is she caring for her home when she makes her husband feel like he comes second to business? in what way is that a contribution?


He's just got a wife who's more into the business than the housework. That's alright, it just means they can pay somebody else to do the stuff neither of them want to do.he's talking about sneaking a maid in to clean up without her knowing. that should tell you something.

Cullion
6th August 10, 04:06 PM
what is she working towards? what's the point in contributing when her husband is unhappy? is she caring for her home when she makes her husband feel like he comes second to business? in what way is that a contribution?

Well.. it's about what they both want and whether or not they can keep something good going with a few simple practical changes of tack. I'm not actually that misogynistic, I just don't like to see men get messed around with by lazy ungreatful women who play the feminism card when what they're really doing is playing a cheap emotional blackmail game to get an easy ride.

His description how she is doesn't fit that.



he's talking about sneaking a maid in to clean up without her knowing. that should tell you something.

Well.. maybe. I'd rather let him speak for himself on it. He might just not have thought of the 'persuasion' approach because whilst he's been a boxer etc.. he might not be very confident about negotiating things. It's quite common for one kind of confidence to not carry over into other areas.

TheMightyMcClaw
6th August 10, 04:27 PM
Personally, I feel that we'd have none of this trouble about division of labor in the household if we just re-instituted slavery.

Ajamil
6th August 10, 07:56 PM
Ever notice how the same people rarely question whether a career woman is 'subjugated' by her employer ?

There's a good reason the Rockefeller foundation donated so much money to feminist causes.
Now you sound like Prabhupada. Welcome to the month.


Personally, I feel that we'd have none of this trouble about division of labor in the household if we just re-instituted slavery.
You like metal.

Cullion
6th August 10, 08:26 PM
Now you sound like Prabhupada. Welcome to the month.

Oh, uh.. Oh ? uh..

OZZ
6th August 10, 09:01 PM
Yes, the house was much tidier before the business took over, obviously. As far as what she was like 'way back when' - I honestly can't remember. All I know is that the main problem is she has one set of priorities and I have another and they rarely coincide nowadays which is why things are problematic. We are not on the same page anymore and this fucking business is a big part of the reason why.
Having said that, its not like we haven't discussed this openly..and she is trying lately to make an effort towards change.
As far as sneaking the maid in ..that was a bit of a joke. I doubt I would have to go that far lol.
I have a love-hate relationship with the business because while it causes some inconveniences, it also gives us a nice extra income and that has been helpful since my professional life has taken a bit of a nosedive lately. So having that income is what keeps OZZ from having to go get some shitty job and continue working PT doing what I went to university for. Were it not for that extra money, I might be bouncing at the local pub on weekends or something.

Cullion
6th August 10, 09:07 PM
Hire a fucking maid.

5bfzWj5a_Y4

OZZ
6th August 10, 09:17 PM
I will..and its going to be one of those one's with the French outfits and she can pleasure me afterwards.

Cullion
6th August 10, 09:20 PM
I think we've achieved a concensus.

lant3rn
6th August 10, 09:25 PM
I think we've achieved a concensus.

It's a turn on if a women can maintain a home?

Cullion
6th August 10, 09:31 PM
what kind of woman can't maintain a home?

the kind who's weak behind a plough, that's what kind.

Ajamil
6th August 10, 09:53 PM
what kind of woman can't maintain a home?

the kind who's weak behind a plough, that's what kind.
2:30 (http://veehd.com/video/2662070_Ren-and-Stimpy-S04E3b)