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OZZ
19th July 10, 04:01 PM
Hardcore German dad decides to put his mouthy teenager in his place...
Talk about tough love..

German abandons son on highway to 'teach him lesson'



BERLIN (AFP) - A German father abandoned his 14-year-old son on an autobahn 450 kilometres (280 miles) from their home after an argument, saying he wanted to teach him a lesson, authorities said on Monday.


The man from the Rhineland in western Germany threw his son out of the car at a rest stop in the southern state of Bavaria Sunday during a cross-country drive, giving him five euros (6.50 dollars) to make his own way home.


When motorists saw the son walking on the side of the road at dusk, they alerted the police. Officers picked up the teenager and called his father, who was already north of Frankfurt, about 100 kilometres away.


"The man said he wanted to teach his son a lesson," police said in a statement, adding that he recommended the child be kept for a night at the police station.


Officers finally convinced the man to return to collect his son in Bavaria.


"After father and son had hugged and promised each other to get along again, they started off together on the 400-kilometre journey home," the statement said.


Police informed child welfare authorities of the case.

WarPhalange
19th July 10, 04:07 PM
Those wacky Germans!

Feryk
19th July 10, 04:29 PM
The German guy has more fatherly instincts that you do, NoB.

ICY
19th July 10, 05:01 PM
Is that illegal in Germany? I mean, it's pretty funny, and fuck, when my mom did that to me, she didn't give me any money...if she had, I woulda been happy. Any time that happened to me, I just sat and waited or climbed a tree or found some other way to amuse myself until she came back. Never took more than an hour.

OZZ
19th July 10, 05:42 PM
I got that treatment once too when I was 12..but it was on a country highway and the people chickened out and came back within 10 minutes to get me.

Kiko
19th July 10, 05:47 PM
Let's compare and contrast....

http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/cops-angry-mom-leaves-bickering-kids-on-roadside-1.1220214

Authorities say a New (http://www.newsday.com/topics/New_York) York (http://www.newsday.com/topics/New_York) mom was so fed up with her bickering daughters that she ordered the girls out of the car and then drove away.
Police arrested Madlyn Primoff of Scarsdale on Sunday and charged her with endangering the welfare of a child, a misdemeanor.
Authorities say the 45-year-old mother let her 12-year-old daughter back in the car after she ran to catch up. A GoodSamaritan picked up the crying 10-year-old and bought her ice cream while calling police.
Primoff reported the girl missing later that night. She was arrested when she arrived at the police station to pick up herdaughter.
She has been released on bail.
A man who answered the phone at Primoff's home said she wouldnot comment.


Hmmmmm...

OZZ
19th July 10, 05:55 PM
So ze Germans believe in tough love and ze Americans do not?
Da?

Kiko
19th July 10, 06:01 PM
Sounds about right. Giving the kid money also helped.

Cullion
19th July 10, 06:11 PM
Richard Branson and Albert Einstein's mothers did the same to them before they were 10 years old, but not in response to an argument, simply with the explicit intention of teaching them to be self-reliant.

Einstein's mother would make him find his way home in the city, from a big apartment store. Branson's mother would let he and his sister out of the car 5 or so miles from home in the English countryside (extremely safe compared to North American bear/cougar/alligator country or the Australian outback) and tell him to find his way home.

Both of them recall enjoying the experience and feeling more confident for it.

Ajamil
19th July 10, 06:26 PM
Sounds like mental blockage of the fact that their parents abused them. I bet you could find people saying the same thing about their experience with FGM or any other horrific rite of adulthood.

My dad kicked us out the car on a highway once. My brother ran after the car, and I just went "hmm," and started walking. It only took 10 minutes before he came back.

SoulMechanic
20th July 10, 12:58 AM
My dad dropped me off on skid row in downtown one time when I was at my pinnacle of shittyness. I was 13 or just turned 14. He later got a call from the police saying I was at the central station after being picked up for fighting with two homeless men in the middle of the street. Dad made me promise to never tell my mother what happened and I was spared from a horrible beating from my father.

jubei33
20th July 10, 02:10 AM
the Japanese have a TV show about this that's fairly popular about this kind of subject. A young child is given a task like buying groceries or picking up something from grandma's house across the city. They do this alone, while hidden camera people film them completing the task. Its quite good to see them complete it.

Last night, they have this 5 year old girl get stamps from all the onsen in the city, but she was to short to reach the stamps, so she had to improvise and she did it too.

(I mean about slef reliance not tough love)

DAYoung
20th July 10, 02:42 AM
I was spared from a horrible beating from my father.

Tsk, tsk. There's your problem right there. One more beating might've fixed you.

bob
20th July 10, 02:58 AM
Never too late to try.

DAYoung
20th July 10, 03:40 AM
Maybe Lily can do it.

Ajamil
20th July 10, 06:11 AM
the Japanese have a TV show about this that's fairly popular about this kind of subject. A young child is given a task like buying groceries or picking up something from grandma's house across the city. They do this alone, while hidden camera people film them completing the task. Its quite good to see them complete it.

Last night, they have this 5 year old girl get stamps from all the onsen in the city, but she was to short to reach the stamps, so she had to improvise and she did it too.

(I mean about slef reliance not tough love)I've seen this, but they were using a monkey. He bought shoes.

Harpy
20th July 10, 06:31 AM
Awesom German father mainly because 450km is hardcore stuff.

My parents ejected the four of us kids onto a NZ farm road about 40km from home about two decades ago (the usual bickering in the backseat turning into a full scale brawl). In the 10 minutes they were gone we recreated a murder scene using my little brother while we hid in some tussock (okay, I was communing with some lambs but that's another story). Parents were not impressed when they collected us.

DA - come here and say that young man!

resolve
20th July 10, 07:46 AM
I'm glad my parents never did that to me. We were always in foreign countries when I was growing up... I got lost in Germany once when I stopped to look at a toy store window and my family kept moving. Not knowing the language really sucked as locals kept trying to help me... scared the shit out of me with their harsh German. Then one grabbed me up and threw me over his shoulder and ran me over to my parents who had just stopped 50 feet away because they noticed I was missing.

SoulMechanic
20th July 10, 03:57 PM
Tsk, tsk. There's your problem right there. One more beating might've fixed you.


I didn't know I was broken. : (

Cullion
20th July 10, 04:02 PM
Sounds like mental blockage of the fact that their parents abused them.

That's a strange view. How are you diagnosing this ?



I bet you could find people saying the same thing about their experience with FGM or any other horrific rite of adulthood.

A walk of a few miles across the English countryside or in a shopping centre 'horrific'?

Really ?



My dad kicked us out the car on a highway once. My brother ran after the car, and I just went "hmm," and started walking. It only took 10 minutes before he came back.

Are you still scarred by the experience ?

Kein Haar
20th July 10, 04:55 PM
This is a good pro-tip, actually.

I'll remember this.

Ajamil
20th July 10, 04:59 PM
Having my hands shoved in a bag full of bullet antsGetting kicked out of a car built strength and self-reliance. I will be sure to do the same thing to my kid one day.

ICY
20th July 10, 05:27 PM
Maybe Lily can do it.

Pick me! Pick me!

Harpy
20th July 10, 05:56 PM
This is a good pro-tip, actually.

I'll remember this.
Obviously you would have taught Kein Jr. to garrotte a man by the time he's 4 and he'll have his trusty Alsatian puppy with him.

SoulMechanic
20th July 10, 06:09 PM
Pick me! Pick me!


Show proof that you have no hep c, aids or syphilis and I'll be your huckleberry.

Cullion
20th July 10, 06:10 PM
Having my hands shoved in a bag full of bullet ants

Hang on now, that's not what we're talking about.



Getting kicked out of a car built strength and self-reliance.

Well, he was only gone for ten minutes, and it was part of some family argument by the sound of it.

What happened to Einstein and Branson was deliberately planned, explained to them as an adventure, and was not a punishment.

Ajamil
20th July 10, 06:29 PM
I was talking about people saying "I didn't like it when it happened, but now I see the benefit of..." which can be said about being abandoned by your parents, or having them horribly scar your body, or cut parts off of it, or forcing you to think you aren't an adult unless you get hurt by insects.

What happened to Einstein and Branson was neglect - deliberately planned or not - and doing so today would have CPS knocking on your door.

Cullion
20th July 10, 06:33 PM
I was talking about people saying "I didn't like it when it happened, but now I see the benefit of..." which can be said about being abandoned by your parents, or having them horribly scar your body, or cut parts off of it, or forcing you to think you aren't an adult unless you get hurt by insects.

They didn't say 'I didn't like it when it happened', you made that part up.



What happened to Einstein and Branson was neglect - deliberately planned or not - and doing so today would have CPS knocking on your door.

Not it wasn't, it was a deliberately planned lesson in self reliance given by loving parents, and having CPS knocking on their parents doors would've been entirely inappropriate.

Ajamil
20th July 10, 06:39 PM
They didn't say 'I didn't like it when it happened', you made that part up.It's been implied in every post.


Not it wasn't, it was a deliberately planned lesson in self reliance given by loving parents, and having CPS knocking on their parents doors would've been entirely inappropriate.Leaving your kid alone and unsupervised in a city = well-thought out plan. Gotcha.

Cullion
20th July 10, 06:49 PM
It's been implied in every post.

No, that's entirely a construct of your imagination.



Leaving your kid alone and unsupervised in a city = well-thought out plan. Gotcha.

Yeah. That's what Einstein's mother did to him.

As a matter of interest, how old do you think a child should be before they're allowed to walk or cycle to school without an adult? Because in the UK it was common practice for children to do that before their teens, over distances measured in miles, until extremely recently.

DAYoung
20th July 10, 06:54 PM
Arjuna, how do you plan to teach your children self-reliance, when you eventually enter into a long-term relationship and have children?

I'm assuming you have no problem imagining yourself into this situation, and planning accordingly.

Neildo
20th July 10, 07:25 PM
bah, kids these days. i was cooking, banking, and taking long distance journeys by plane by myself before i was 9. I was getting paid for work (mowing lawns, shovelling snow, paper route) before i was 12. 5 miles to school uphill both ways in waist deep snow with no boots goddamnit
*shakes fist at sky*

Ajamil
20th July 10, 07:44 PM
No, that's entirely a construct of your imagination.OK. Show of hands - who here of those abandoned by their parents felt upset at the time, but later saw a lesson being imparted?


As a matter of interest, how old do you think a child should be before they're allowed to walk or cycle to school without an adult? Because in the UK it was common practice for children to do that before their teens, over distances measured in miles, until extremely recently.Depends on the child, the environment they'd be traveling in, and the trust I could place in the school officials. You mention extremely recently. What changed? Are you seeing that today's world isn't one where children are "just fine on their own?"

I'm assuming you have no problem imagining yourself into this situation, and planning accordingly.Bad assumption, but judo and boy-scouts, of course.

Big Dozer
20th July 10, 08:34 PM
Did he see Kyle?

Zendetta
20th July 10, 08:41 PM
boy-scouts, of course.

You can get the same buggery at a fraction of the cost by just joining the right church.

Big Dozer
20th July 10, 08:52 PM
Here is what happened


Kid: Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da? Sind wir schon da?...etc.


Dad: Ja, wir sind hier, jetzt raus.

Ajamil
20th July 10, 10:00 PM
You can get the same buggery at a fraction of the cost by just joining the right church.Gita-Nagari is less than two hours away, and the UU is just up the highway. The church part is all planned out.

bob
20th July 10, 10:00 PM
One day, when I was barely capable of swimming, my mother wondered aloud if I was capable of saving myself if I happened to fall in the swimming pool. The next thing I knew she grabbed me, fully clothed, and threw me in.

PS: I survived.

Harpy
21st July 10, 12:16 AM
How old were you?!

bob
21st July 10, 12:54 AM
Probably 4.

Harpy
21st July 10, 01:12 AM
How exactly did you survive? Thrash around and cling to the wall?

Or maybe as a child without many inhibitions or frightening experiences you tapped into your natural survival instinct? I dont know...I just wouldn't risk that.

Call your mother tonight and thank her for kick starting your resilience training.

Cullion
21st July 10, 04:18 AM
OK. Show of hands - who here of those abandoned by their parents felt upset at the time, but later saw a lesson being imparted?

No, and you're arguing against the first hand reports of the people I cited.



Depends on the child, the environment they'd be traveling in, and the trust I could place in the school officials.

Well, for the sake of argument, say it was where you were raised.



You mention extremely recently. What changed?

British public servants, and to some extent the public, are becoming increasingly risk averse and scared by lurid media accounts of extremely rare events involving child killers and paedophiles and the increasing threat of legal action for any accidental occurrence.

Some middle class parents in London recently made the national press because they were interviewed by social services at their school headmaster's request, for letting their pre-teen children cycle to school. As recently as 10 years ago, the idea that social services would be called would seem absurd to the average British person. Now there's a public debate over it with a slight majority still arguing that the school and social services acted in an absurd way.



Are you seeing that today's world isn't one where children are "just fine on their own?"

I'm seeing sections of the British public become increasingly neurotic about it. I'm worried that we're going to smother children's sense of independence and adventure because of it.

bob
21st July 10, 07:14 PM
You know, I just google mapped my old walking route to school from about the age of 7. It was barely more than a mile/ 2km. Fuck, talk about the inflationary effects of memory. Felt like I packed a lot of adventure into that mile.

OZZ
21st July 10, 08:09 PM
Well, things have changed a lot even in the thirty or so years I have been around. I was walking to school alone when I was 6 ..although my adopted mother forbade me to cut through the park because she was afraid of diddlers.. maybe, I am not sure what her reasoning was. But all my friends were allowed so I always did anyways and regularly got in shit for it.
In retrospect, that was a fair distance for a 6 year old to walk home and I don't think many parents would let their kids of the same age do that nowadays.Even in a relatively safe city like the one I grew up in.
I also used to ride my bike 6km to school when I was 13 living out in the country..but I think a lot of kids still do that.
Still, I don't like it when parents are overly protective and try too hard to shield their kids if it robs them of having real life experiences.
Shit, in Ontario the playground bylaws are so strict now that everythng is made of plastic, there's no monkey bars or cool tire swings like we used to have. Somewhere along the line the establishment went bonkers with trying to 'protect' our children to the point where its considred a big problem if you scuff your knee in the park.
Aren't those scuffed knees and plunges down from the monkey bars just part of childhood and learning what your limitations are?

Ajamil
21st July 10, 09:08 PM
No, and you're arguing against the first hand reports of the people I cited.When did they say it? As previous posts have facetiously pointed out, old people often ignore the negative emotions of youth, preferring to see everything as adventure and character building. Besides, you're using two people that in no way can be used to sample the human population's psychology.




Well, for the sake of argument, say it was where you were raised.Which one? To make it simpler, I'll just go with "military base." Do you think growing up on a military base is the same as growing up anywhere else, that you could enjoy the same amount of assurance that your unattended kids would be safe?


British public servants, and to some extent the public, are becoming increasingly risk averse and scared by lurid media accounts of extremely rare events involving child killers and paedophiles and the increasing threat of legal action for any accidental occurrence.What's an acceptable number of child deaths/rapes for kids to have autonomy?


Some middle class parents in London recently made the national press because they were interviewed by social services at their school headmaster's request, for letting their pre-teen children cycle to school. As recently as 10 years ago, the idea that social services would be called would seem absurd to the average British person. Now there's a public debate over it with a slight majority still arguing that the school and social services acted in an absurd way.Time? Place? Circumstance? Cycling down Winding Creek Lane is a lot different than cycling down I-95, or Martin Luther King Blvd.


I'm seeing sections of the British public become increasingly neurotic about it. I'm worried that we're going to smother children's sense of independence and adventure because of it.They can be independent and adventurous in here.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_EY4gKhwQrTY/SCoFWGh29MI/AAAAAAAAABk/lOf92iHKW6w/s288/cabot2.JPG

SoulMechanic
21st July 10, 10:10 PM
When I was a kid all was fare game until the street lights came on. Run around like a wild animal for all our parents cared just as long as you were in the front door within 5 minutes of those damn street lights. So guess what Lil'Mechanic would do? Break the things. Yeah, my adolescence was full of idiocy.

bob
21st July 10, 10:28 PM
I remember as a kid when we were in the Phillipines having a very strict night time curfew because the soldiers on leave used to wander around drunk and fire their M16s off into the air just for yuks.

resolve
22nd July 10, 06:13 PM
They can be independent and adventurous in here.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_EY4gKhwQrTY/SCoFWGh29MI/AAAAAAAAABk/lOf92iHKW6w/s288/cabot2.JPG

And thus, all of life becomes one cage after another.

Cullion
22nd July 10, 06:26 PM
When did they say it?

Branson said it in his biography.



As previous posts have facetiously pointed out, old people often ignore the negative emotions of youth, preferring to see everything as adventure and character building.

You can't make up how other people were feeling to suit your argument like that.



Besides, you're using two people that in no way can be used to sample the human population's psychology.

Well, who are your examples ?

Where did you develop your terror of daytime bike rides ?

Ajamil
22nd July 10, 10:47 PM
Branson said it in his biography.



You can't make up how other people were feeling to suit your argument like that.



Well, who are your examples ? And you can't trust old folk reminiscing about youth to accurately remember their emotions. Obbiously we need a case study. Let's take a 1000 child sample across the spectrum from 6 to 14 and abandon them anywhere from 5 to 100 miles from home and when they get back ask how they felt.


Where did you develop your terror of daytime bike rides ?
Today my mother related two stories of my brother's childhoods to me. One was when they were in Amsterdam, and she wanted my eldest brother to see some miniature exhibition, but didn't want to pay the adult fare. Parking was also a problem and my infant middle brother was asleep in the car two blocks away. She put her watch on my eldest brother, showed him what number the hands would point to when he was supposed to come out, and shoved him inside.

Hours later no child. She rushes in to find him wandering and saying "he forgot" to come back out.

The other time at a beach my middle brother now a toddler/child started walking off and instead of calling him back she followed to see where he was going. After half an hour of him walking and not turning around once, my mother finally calls to him and asks what he thinks he's doing. "I'm going to [Cousin]'s house!" [Cousin] had a condo five miles south of the beach that we had visited the day before.

It's not bike rides - it's unattended children.

i1BSZO7dkto

Well OK - it might be bike rides.

Feryk
23rd July 10, 11:12 AM
And you can't trust old folk reminiscing about youth to accurately remember their emotions. Obbiously we need a case study. Let's take a 1000 child sample across the spectrum from 6 to 14 and abandon them anywhere from 5 to 100 miles from home and when they get back ask how they felt.

Isn't the thrust of your whole arguement that this kind of parenting leads to childhood trauma? And that trauma is bad because it has implications that stretch into adulthood?

Seems like how the adults feel about their childhood experiences is very relevant.

Cullion
23rd July 10, 11:16 AM
And you can't trust old folk reminiscing about youth to accurately remember their emotions.

You should give more weight to how a person reports feeling about an event they experienced first hand, than how you imagine they would've felt when you weren't there.



Today my mother related two stories of my brother's childhoods to me. One was when they were in Amsterdam, and she wanted my eldest brother to see some miniature exhibition, but didn't want to pay the adult fare. Parking was also a problem and my infant middle brother was asleep in the car two blocks away. She put her watch on my eldest brother, showed him what number the hands would point to when he was supposed to come out, and shoved him inside.

Hours later no child. She rushes in to find him wandering and saying "he forgot" to come back out.

She did that in Lebell's homeland??.

There's your problem.



The other time at a beach my middle brother now a toddler/child started walking off and instead of calling him back she followed to see where he was going. After half an hour of him walking and not turning around once, my mother finally calls to him and asks what he thinks he's doing. "I'm going to [Cousin]'s house!" [Cousin] had a condo five miles south of the beach that we had visited the day before.


I must be missing the part where either of these kids came to any harm.

resolve
23rd July 10, 12:57 PM
UzPxRqoXeXQ

Understand.

Ajamil
23rd July 10, 04:18 PM
Isn't the thrust of your whole arguement that this kind of parenting leads to childhood trauma? And that trauma is bad because it has implications that stretch into adulthood?

Seems like how the adults feel about their childhood experiences is very relevant.Trauma is often mentally blocked, which I mentioned quite early about Cullion's examples. Just because you can't identify it doesn't mean it isn't affecting your adult life.

But no, my thrust was that unattended children don't make it to adulthood to have problems.


I must be missing the part where either of these kids came to any harm.You haven't met my brothers, and the second anecdote wasn't unattended.

Shotgun Christening
23rd July 10, 04:43 PM
lol the Euro is worth less than the dollar. Europe sucks ass

DAYoung
23rd July 10, 05:03 PM
Trauma is often mentally blocked, which I mentioned quite early about Cullion's examples. Just because you can't identify it doesn't mean it isn't affecting your adult life.

Exactly. And your opinion is the result of trauma. Obviously you can't think clearly about this.

And don't tell me you've no trauma - you think you know yourself, but you don't. You've obviously 'mentally blocked' the trauma.

Just because I can't see the trauma, doesn't mean it isn't there. I know your trauma better than you do.

Now, be quiet, and let the untraumatised adults talk.

Ajamil
23rd July 10, 05:47 PM
Aww, you gotta go and use the adults thing again. That's not fair.

Does this mean I was successful?

DAYoung
23rd July 10, 06:38 PM
Aww, you gotta go and use the adults thing again. That's not fair.

Does this mean I was successful?

No. That's not what I was doing.

*sigh*

Cullion
23rd July 10, 06:41 PM
I'm... I'm puling my hand away from the big red 'flame' button on my keyboard.

Arjuna, why are you so worried about other people's parents doing the same things you just said that your mother did, without it leading to harm ?

Is your brother more messed up than you ? Does he have trouble dealing with adult life ?

DAYoung
23rd July 10, 07:07 PM
I'm... I'm puling my hand away from the big red 'flame' button on my keyboard.

You would do that, wouldn't you. Want to know why?

TRAUMA.

Sorry? You deny the trauma?

MORE PROOF OF TRAUMA.

You need to understand the first truth of amateur psychoanalysis: strangers on the internet know you better than you know yourself. Strangers on the internet know the protagonists of books they've not read better than the protagonists know themselves.

Cullion
23rd July 10, 07:09 PM
You're right. What should I do about it? please help?

DAYoung
23rd July 10, 07:31 PM
Agree with Arjuna. Disagreement is a symptom of trauma.

Cullion
23rd July 10, 07:49 PM
If I agreed with Arjuna wouldn't it mean that I just had the same trauma as him?

This is so complicated.

DAYoung
23rd July 10, 08:00 PM
It only seems complicated, because your unconscious is putting up barriers to proper understanding. Agree with Arjuna, and suddenly your psychic energy will be free to properly cathect the right objects.

Cullion
23rd July 10, 09:00 PM
Was that a complicated way of saying "it only hurts if you're tense?"

DAYoung
23rd July 10, 09:39 PM
No, but that's true too.

Ajamil
23rd July 10, 10:24 PM
I have no idea what cathect means, but I'm going to go ahead and declare my second trolling attempt as successful as my first. Mostly because I have no idea how to keep it up past this point.

bob
23rd July 10, 11:01 PM
You need to understand the first truth of amateur psychoanalysis: strangers on the internet know you better than you know yourself.

To be fair, in Dagon's case this is true.

DAYoung
24th July 10, 12:00 AM
Arjuna: you are not a troll, you are pranic sneeze.

Bornsceptic: very good point, sir. But Dagon gave us more psyche studd than Freud's Dora. Christ, Robert Ludlum could've given a nuanced character sketch.