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Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
2nd July 10, 07:38 AM
oETzR2pTw0M

Nice shot. I mean if you cant shoot point blank at unarmed protestors in a western democracy, where can you?

jubei33
2nd July 10, 08:31 AM
why is it only 10 s? is there a better one?

is she dead?

edit: here's a longer one with more commentary, but sadly nothing that shows what happened prior to being surrounded. In honor of the world cup I suppose, big mouth sure did draw the foul.

uBY0miJS6hg
the police "terrifying" them [/nasal]
71xa7ktvD-k&NR

danno
2nd July 10, 09:16 AM
if i were to join the police force, i think i'd want to be part of the riot squad.

WarPhalange
2nd July 10, 10:21 AM
My friend goes to a lot of protests (it's his thing). At one protest the cops took a chick basically "hostage". They just held her and told the other protesters they'd let her go if they all left. WTF?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
2nd July 10, 11:20 AM
They can pretty much do what the fuck they like. Then if they get caught on camera they investigate themselves and find that they were justified due to them being dead scared of unarmed people shouting stuff.

danno
2nd July 10, 11:26 AM
i love seeing these guys in action. it's like the roman legions coming back to life.

P37MBrPyA00

Ajamil
2nd July 10, 04:20 PM
Holy fuck this looks like a fun game. Do the police have to form those slow moving walls? It's only a good game if the limitations even out the chances.

There needs to be a better strategy on how to break through the lines.

fes_fsa
2nd July 10, 05:09 PM
were they real bullets? or bean bags? or the lame rubberized things?

cuz... i think you can use non-lethal force whenever the fuck you like when you're working riots. one person takes a step forward and BOOM! "the hippy came after me!"

Ajamil
2nd July 10, 05:25 PM
Hot damn, when they start randomly jumping in to grab a loner and arrest them, the tension is as good as any horror movie. Look at the faces, all the turning in circles. "Where will they strike next? There's no cover to run to!" It's like dolphins herding fish and then diving through the middle of the school.

Edit: So was the shotgunned girl the one crying about her brother? Where did the 10 min video synch with the original vid?

SoulMechanic
3rd July 10, 04:50 PM
How strange, I could have sworn I posted in this thread last night...

Ajamil
3rd July 10, 04:58 PM
Yeah, there were posts after mine.

Have ALL the mods gone power-crazy now?

resolve
3rd July 10, 07:01 PM
Alot of threads had it happen to them. Even in CTC. I originally thought it was due to me being on some ridiculous pain meds, but I couldn't access the site at all much of today so I suspect server reset.

ICY
3rd July 10, 11:26 PM
Protesting in that manner is FUCKING STUPID AND DESERVES A BEATING.

If I go fucking sailing in a hurricane, who's gonna feel sorry for me when I drown?

HappyOldGuy
3rd July 10, 11:33 PM
Protesting in that manner is FUCKING STUPID AND DESERVES A BEATING.

If I go fucking sailing in a hurricane, who's gonna feel sorry for me when I drown?

In fairness, we're not going to feel sorry for you if you drown in the bathtub either.

FriendlyFire
4th July 10, 02:02 AM
Protesting in that manner is FUCKING STUPID AND DESERVES A BEATING.

Agreed. I wonder if they would ever except volunteer riot control. I would love to hit some a-holes with shields.

Ajamil
4th July 10, 08:24 AM
How should they protest? My only problem is them being butthurt about the cops doing their job.

Make your stand and don't get all whiny when you get arrested.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
4th July 10, 08:53 AM
Sometimes the police do something to provoke the protestors into confrontation, I know its hard to believe isnt it?

I have certainly seen peaceful protest end up with the police kicking off and just having a field day. In the UK after the Poll Tax Riots (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/31/newsid_2530000/2530763.stm) some of the rioters who were arrested and actually filmed attacking the police, got off with slef defense. after showing extensive footage of the police attacking protestors. A first (and probably last) in UK law.

Ajamil
4th July 10, 09:01 AM
Reacting to the provocation makes it look like your fault, and gives them the excuse. Stoicism is the protester's friend.

resolve
4th July 10, 10:24 AM
There are often times when peaceful protests are broken up just because the law enforcement doesn't "feel comfortable" about the size of the protest. Sometimes when this happens protestors refuse to leave and standoffs like this happen.

Right to peaceful assembly WRU?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
4th July 10, 10:48 AM
what does "WRU" mean?

resolve
4th July 10, 11:11 AM
Where aRe yoU?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
5th July 10, 04:54 AM
Space man!

KO'd N DOA
5th July 10, 11:30 AM
It will be awesome when they start outsourcing crowd control to corperations, in order to deflect some of the issues. The Koreans looked great and organized.

danno
5th July 10, 08:26 PM
It will be awesome when they start outsourcing crowd control to corperations, in order to deflect some of the issues.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3d/Syndicate.png

Feryk
6th July 10, 05:30 PM
Best. Game. Ever.

danno
6th July 10, 06:50 PM
i actually remember that level perfectly.

the image of a dystopian future run by corporations left a big impression on me as a kid. everything about it was great. even down to the printed artwork on the installation disks. freeeaakin' loved it.

Wounded Ronin
6th July 10, 09:47 PM
I love those riot cops! Apparently the Viking/Roman art of the linked shield formation lives on.

Foolish protestors, their undisciplined individual-centric hand to hand combat techniques won't work against a linked shield formation. That's like a bunch of cavemen trying to kick the crap out of a Roman legion. They should just surrender and be glad that they're legally protected from getting a gladius to the nuts.

danno
6th July 10, 09:56 PM
riot cops in peru:

http://www.thecuriousmonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/riotpolice350.jpg

SoulMechanic
6th July 10, 10:07 PM
Poland
http://www.viceland.com/fashion/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/polish-mickey-riot-police.jpg

Ajamil
7th July 10, 03:44 AM
South Africa
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/097r9zX92M0Pk/610x.jpg

danno
7th July 10, 07:52 AM
fuck this, i'm quitting my job to become a riot cop. it's the closest thing to batman you'll ever get.

more photos/videos plz.

KO'd N DOA
7th July 10, 08:01 AM
Batman indeed...

http://blog.jinbo.net/files1/33/CINA/images/200604/190247382.jpg

danno
7th July 10, 08:08 AM
go batman! squash those hippies!

(but seriously, any cops or military are only as righteous and non-corrupt as their administration)

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
7th July 10, 08:20 AM
Some nice riot police pics for you danno... (http://www.londonclasswar.org/photos_cops.htm)

danno
7th July 10, 08:36 AM
haha, yeah i've seen that kind of site before. read something a little while ago which described how to create shields and weapons for the purpose of fighting riot cops.

my little bro is going to see if he can join the police some time next year.

KO'd N DOA
7th July 10, 09:10 AM
When I was a kid, we took in a retired crowd control Police horse so he didn't have to go for glue.

He hearded all of us around like sheep, did he ever loved pushing us around. The stories he could have told us if he was like Ed, of all the hippies they have stomped.

OZZ
7th July 10, 09:28 AM
When I was a kid, we took in a retired crowd control Police horse so he didn't have to go for glue.

He hearded all of us around like sheep, did he ever loved pushing us around. The stories he could have told us if he was like Ed, of all the hippies they have stomped.

I worked with horses for many years and we also had some retired police horses come to the ranch..I remember how much of a pain they could be to get in the barn when they really didn't want to go in..they were all unique characters thats for sure.
Horses are very smart animals, despite their skittishness; even though they are herd animals I think they are at least as smart as dogs, especially the older ones.

kracker
10th July 10, 01:32 AM
Why is it that these fuckers get paid to beat up random people who have no means to defend themselves? I mean, if I go to an old folks home or preschool or midget club to beat up a bunch of utterly harmless people for no reason other than to masturbate my ego, I'll be universally regarded as an asshole and probably be sent off to Sodomy Central. Why is it so different for cops?

danno
10th July 10, 01:56 AM
it's the job that society asks them to do. they're enforcing law.

if we were all required by law to wear g-strings, they'd be enforcing that too.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th July 10, 08:58 AM
it's the job that society asks them to do. they're enforcing law.

Nah! It's a job that rich powerful people pay them to do, so that society has no real say in what they do.

Dark Helmet
10th July 10, 10:01 AM
Why is it that these fuckers get paid to beat up random people who have no means to defend themselves?
Well considering that many protesters use getting arrested and kicked around as a badge of pride. I can't say I'm very sympathetic.

You know what else I think that this is the way that hippies get their addrenaline rush just like skydivers jump off of skyscrappers. Hippies get theirs from fighting out with cops.

OZZ
10th July 10, 11:12 AM
Why is it that these fuckers get paid to beat up random people who have no means to defend themselves? I mean, if I go to an old folks home or preschool or midget club to beat up a bunch of utterly harmless people for no reason other than to masturbate my ego, I'll be universally regarded as an asshole and probably be sent off to Sodomy Central. Why is it so different for cops?

Utterly harmless people who burn cars, carry spears and throw flasks of urine and feces at people as well as damage property?
These fuckers deserve worse than they get.

Wounded Ronin
10th July 10, 11:45 AM
Nah! It's a job that rich powerful people pay them to do, so that society has no real say in what they do.

Yeah, society totally approved of the 92 LA riots. The Rodney King beatings totally justified looting, arson, and property destruction, and angry mobs going after Korean Americans.

EDIT: Korean American shopkeepers = rich and powerful. Right???

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th July 10, 01:03 PM
Yeah, society totally approved of the 92 LA riots. The Rodney King beatings totally justified looting, arson, and property destruction, and angry mobs going after Korean Americans.

EDIT: Korean American shopkeepers = rich and powerful. Right???


WTF???

So your equating the 92 LA riots with a meeting of the 20 most power full economies on the planet.

Why?

Oh yeah coz all demostrations against the governments on this planet are organised by a bunch of hippies that were responsible for looting Korean shop owners in LA once upon a time.

Get a grip...

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th July 10, 01:05 PM
Utterly harmless people who burn cars, carry spears and throw flasks of urine and feces at people as well as damage property?
These fuckers deserve worse than they get.

Yes thats right OZZ everybody who demostrates against the powers that be are piss throwing, spear carring hippies, who's only agenda is to damage property.

You should get out more.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
10th July 10, 01:10 PM
Well considering that many protesters use getting arrested and kicked around as a badge of pride. I can't say I'm very sympathetic.

Yeah I mean who would have sympathy for somebody like Ian Tomlinson (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/04/08/g20.man.dead/index.html)?

The police were just doing their bit for society after all.

HappyOldGuy
10th July 10, 01:23 PM
Spears?

Ferreals?

resolve
10th July 10, 01:32 PM
You know what starts riots?

Intense human suffering.

Yes, it's a little more complicated than that simple statement. It starts as protesting. Then people can't stand the protesting... governing bodies (insert whatever here) tend to view long demonstrations as suffocating to local economies, the status quo, their 'right' to power. They tend to break it up. Then the more violent parts of the protest/assembly or the government will escalate it. Someone is convinced their rights are going to be violated and violence is all that's left.

But look at the real problem. The deepest issue. The gaping wound staring back at you when we really look into things like social unrest. Human suffering. Stop the suffering, and you will stop the unrest. You will stop the riots. Get to the heart of the issue.

HappyOldGuy
10th July 10, 02:33 PM
You know what starts riots?

boredom.


Fixed.

Dark Helmet
10th July 10, 04:46 PM
Yeah I mean who would have sympathy for somebody like Ian Tomlinson (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/04/08/g20.man.dead/index.html)?

You know you could have asked me what I thought of that case? In Europe, In London. Far and away removed from the G20 summit in Toronto. It's not as though it was the same police officers in riot gear here.

Wounded Ronin
10th July 10, 06:51 PM
WTF???

So your equating the 92 LA riots with a meeting of the 20 most power full economies on the planet.

Why?

Oh yeah coz all demostrations against the governments on this planet are organised by a bunch of hippies that were responsible for looting Korean shop owners in LA once upon a time.

Get a grip...

I was talking about rioters in developed western countries in general. They always choose to riot and always over abstracted theories about how the white man is somehow keeping somebody down.

Wounded Ronin
10th July 10, 06:55 PM
Fixed.

Faux outrage that young people who are wasting their lives and potentials use to convince themselves that they're somehow being heroic or counter-cultural.

True of both the riots in California and the ones that center around global economic summits.

danno
10th July 10, 08:42 PM
there are a couple of things my government is doing which i don't like. i'm going to join a political party in the future to have my voice heard, which i think will have a much greater effect than public protest.

Kein Haar
10th July 10, 08:50 PM
Why is it that these fuckers get paid to beat up random people who have no means to defend themselves? I mean, if I go to an old folks home or preschool or midget club to beat up a bunch of utterly harmless people for no reason other than to masturbate my ego, I'll be universally regarded as an asshole and probably be sent off to Sodomy Central. Why is it so different for cops?

When I rule the world, I will bring Kracker into philosophy classes (in leg and wrist shackles), whip him once on the buttocks in order to produce a single logical fallacy at a time, and then discuss it with the class.

I would do that, because he is so text-bookedly awesome at creating them.

Vieux Normand
11th July 10, 08:55 AM
Holy shit,

I come out of a couple of weeks' hiking in Gros Morne, and people are still going over this shit in the news?

Look, I was actually there, in downtown TO during the G20, and had to go home from shift through some of the affected areas. These are the people you had there:

1) Peaceful protestors

2) Rioters

3) Riot tourist with their cell-cams

4) People who actually live, work and get groceries in those areas, and have nothing to do with any of the events.

In addition to that you had cops who:

a) Followed due process, enforcing the law without making up any new ones on the fly and without arresting anyone unless they had reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the arrestees were in breach of the law

b) Ignored due process, made up laws (such as the 25-metres-within-the-fence "law" which the TO police chief later admitted didn't exist), and performed Pinochet-style sweeps of large numbers of people in areas far from the security area, regardless of why they were there, without reasonable and probable grounds.

For 1)The solution was to leave them the fuck alone, other than to keep an eye on them to see if you could spot any rioters hiding amongst them. Pinochet-style sweeps are not necessary for this, and open the police to future unlawful-detention actions in the courts.

For 2) Fucking throw them headfirst into jail and see how "anarchist" they can be with Bubba splitting their colons.

For 3) Tempting though it may be to throw them in jail with the rioters, these assholes aren't breaking any laws. They're still assholes. Maybe there should be a law about that.

For 4) Leave them the fuck alone. They live there, it's their fucking neighbourhood. It doesn't belong to the cops, the rioters, hippie protestors, world leaders, Stephen Harper or anyone else.

As for a), medals and promotions all around. Good job done in very difficult circumstances.

And b)? Booted from the popo, then into the cell with Bubba and his anarchist bitch.

No wonder the Newfies hereabouts are all shaking their heads...

Machete
15th July 10, 10:48 AM
Give a man a weapon, obscure his identity, place him with a group of nearly identical armed men, position all of them in front of a belligerent crowd that outnumbers them, convince him that the crowd is filled with dangerous people (which is probably true) and maybe he might use that weapon a little sooner than we'd like. Not because he's a bad person, but because he's a person and anyone might do the same thing in those circumstances.

KO'd N DOA
15th July 10, 01:19 PM
Which side are you refering to?

Machete
16th July 10, 02:44 AM
I meant the police, but it could easily apply to the protesters.

Kein Haar
17th July 10, 05:02 AM
If the rioters were serious, they would bring the guns they certainly could have purchased...cuz I doubt many of them are felons.

They would shoot the police. Shields dont' stop that. If what some of them say is true, they'd just be executing cold-blooded murderers anyway. Like modern day inglorious bastards. It'd be heroic.

Police would totally freak out and probably kill some of them. That would be awesome footage to spin around.

But what they are really counting on is the restraint of those with weapons. That's why they go to these things again and again. It's fun. Police can't possibly arrest everyone, and they certainly don't hurt very many people, not really, so they run around and almost have carte blanche to act like jag offs for a while.

They want to incite the police into making them look like victims. yes, but for god's sake don't hurt anyone TOO bad. That'd...hurt! A lot of them have finals for the summer semester!

Ajamil
17th July 10, 10:19 AM
A lot of them have finals for the summer semester!A good point, actually. Lot of the protesters are doing this as part of their life; it is not the focus of their life, like a revolutionary.

Wounded Ronin
17th July 10, 11:10 AM
If the rioters were serious, they would bring the guns they certainly could have purchased...cuz I doubt many of them are felons.

They would shoot the police. Shields dont' stop that. If what some of them say is true, they'd just be executing cold-blooded murderers anyway. Like modern day inglorious bastards. It'd be heroic.

Police would totally freak out and probably kill some of them. That would be awesome footage to spin around.

But what they are really counting on is the restraint of those with weapons. That's why they go to these things again and again. It's fun. Police can't possibly arrest everyone, and they certainly don't hurt very many people, not really, so they run around and almost have carte blanche to act like jag offs for a while.

They want to incite the police into making them look like victims. yes, but for god's sake don't hurt anyone TOO bad. That'd...hurt! A lot of them have finals for the summer semester!



What I really hate is how people complain about police using force when in fact police ususually show great restraint.

I think it's because nowadays most people in the developed world don't understand violence. It's the same thing as people saying SWAT doesn't need to shoot your dog, or saying something like, "He should have shot at the dog but missed in order to scare it off."

If everyone did combative sports, and thus had just a small understanding of violence, I think not a single person would complain about the cops.

resolve
17th July 10, 12:53 PM
JAfLm7Q8Ork

Yeah guy was being argumentative and verbally combative... after he got tased, for not providing ID.

To simply deny that police abuses of power don't exist is ignorant WR.


The thing is, you DO have alot of rights when dealing with police. You can deny searches under certain circumstances and deny other interactions with the police legally. Some cops get upset when this happens (as it's a trump card to their authority) so they escalate the situation. These cops are wrong.

I'm not speaking specifically towards riots here, but providing a general point.

OZZ
17th July 10, 08:13 PM
Yes thats right OZZ everybody who demostrates against the powers that be are piss throwing, spear carring hippies, who's only agenda is to damage property.

You should get out more.

Did I say everyone was?
Dipshit.
I hate those people who demostrate..those demostraters are really disturbing demostraters..
The assholes at the summit who WERE guilty of doing the above should be taught a lesson.
You sympathize with them too or just the peaceful hippies?
Let me guess, you are one of those kids who wears all black and thinks they understand politics?
Dipshit.

SoulMechanic
17th July 10, 08:50 PM
Ozz how did you get so smart?
http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn392/dubrunner/comicalpictures0201.jpg

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
18th July 10, 07:59 AM
Did I say everyone was?
Dipshit.
I hate those people who demostrate..those demostraters are really disturbing demostraters..
The assholes at the summit who WERE guilty of doing the above should be taught a lesson.
You sympathize with them too or just the peaceful hippies?
Let me guess, you are one of those kids who wears all black and thinks they understand politics?
Dipshit.

Sounded like it.

Cockface.

Agreed some people go to demonstartion to have a riot, they believe that this is the only way a point can be made. Sometimes the POLICE actually start the riot themsleves!!! In which case I have no problem with peolpe reacting violently back.

Recenlty there have been violent riots in Belfast. I dont condone this as I think it is actually taking a step backwards, so in that case I dont approve of the violence.

Let me guess, your somebody who likes to have black and white answers to complex questions, because it make you more secure. When people act up, it makes you feel vunerable, so you resort to stereotyping and sweeping generalisation to make up for the fact that you have a small penis?

Cockface

jubei33
18th July 10, 08:29 AM
This thread needs a few more bonobos and a few less chimpanzees.
http://spektrumku.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/dua_betina_bonobo.jpg
thats better.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
18th July 10, 09:24 AM
http://www.oweiss.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bonobos-watching-porn_09.jpg

Wounded Ronin
18th July 10, 10:08 AM
JAfLm7Q8Ork

Yeah guy was being argumentative and verbally combative... after he got tased, for not providing ID.

To simply deny that police abuses of power don't exist is ignorant WR.


The thing is, you DO have alot of rights when dealing with police. You can deny searches under certain circumstances and deny other interactions with the police legally. Some cops get upset when this happens (as it's a trump card to their authority) so they escalate the situation. These cops are wrong.

I'm not speaking specifically towards riots here, but providing a general point.

Any time you take a statement to a logical extreme, like "police never act inappropriately", you're going to be wrong.

But I feel like it's more likely in general that if there's a complaint, the complainer is wrong, than the cop is wrong.

Case in point. The police in my area recently blew a man away. White, military vet, CCWer, and of course the family and the peanut gallery are all upset and thinking the cops did something wrong. And you get all the naive second guessing along the lines of, "Well they should have used pepper sprays, flexible baton rounds, and karate, but not shot him."

But to make a long story short (and if you insist I can link to some news articles and spell out the details) it seems pretty likely that this guy drew on them, and they had no choice but to blow him away. In my opinion it seemed pretty clear cut, but the family's always going to be upset when something like this happens and for some reason lots of peoples' knee jerk reaction is to say bad stuff about the police.

Now when you consider that there's a lot of political lobbies and schools of thought out there that will fall apart intellectually unless they can say that they're the victims of invisible, systemic, automatic, all-powerful discrimination, in a situation like a riot about global economic development, you're pretty much talking about people going out there hoping the police will do something to them so they can go home and tell their friends how justified their radical ideology is.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
18th July 10, 11:55 AM
Now when you consider that there's a lot of political lobbies and schools of thought out there that will fall apart intellectually unless they can say that they're the victims of invisible, systemic, automatic, all-powerful discrimination, in a situation like a riot about global economic development, you're pretty much talking about people going out there hoping the police will do something to them so they can go home and tell their friends how justified their radical ideology is.

I think thats a fair point.

Where do you draw the line though?

Do you think its OK to indiscriminatly attack protestors just in case one of them is a dickhead?

Do you think that maybe protests shouldnt be allowed at all, just in case somebody wants to have a go at the police or destroy McDonalds?

Do you think that the police shouldnt be present at all?

Do you think that G8, G20 meetings shouldnt be advertised and be done over der interwebz?

OZZ
18th July 10, 12:32 PM
Sounded like it.

Cockface.

Agreed some people go to demonstartion to have a riot, they believe that this is the only way a point can be made. Sometimes the POLICE actually start the riot themsleves!!! In which case I have no problem with peolpe reacting violently back.

Recenlty there have been violent riots in Belfast. I dont condone this as I think it is actually taking a step backwards, so in that case I dont approve of the violence.

Let me guess, your somebody who likes to have black and white answers to complex questions, because it make you more secure. When people act up, it makes you feel vunerable, so you resort to stereotyping and sweeping generalisation to make up for the fact that you have a small penis?

Cockface

You are absolutely right..I feel very vunerable..so vunerable in fact that I am quivering at the thought of debating with an intellectual giant like yourself.
I am so vunerable..vunerable beyond belief..I guess I am just one of those peolpe..not all peolpe are the same you know. Some peolpe are less vunerable than others..
Get the hint yet? Genius..
Actually, I am far from a cop lover and usually don't condone brutality against demonstrators . But these little pricks who use the events as an opportunity to run rampant and have no discernible message to try and communicate or cause to support really piss me off. They ruin it for people who have legitmate issues to shout about and hence ruin it for everyone involved because all everyone focuses on is the violence they cause and the important issues get overlooked entirely.

Oh and on another note - have you read 'The Ego And His Own' ?

OZZ
18th July 10, 12:34 PM
Ozz how did you get so smart?
http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn392/dubrunner/comicalpictures0201.jpg

How did you get so stupid?

SoulMechanic
18th July 10, 12:42 PM
^^ I wouldn't exactly say it was your charm that tends to rub off on people...

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
18th July 10, 02:13 PM
You are Genius..

Thanks


Actually, I am far from a cop lover and usually don't condone brutality against demonstrators . But these little pricks who use the events as an opportunity to run rampant and have no discernible message to try and communicate or cause to support really piss me off. They ruin it for people who have legitmate issues to shout about and hence ruin it for everyone involved because all everyone focuses on is the violence they cause and the important issues get overlooked entirely.

I agree


Oh and on another note - have you read 'The Ego And His Own'

Yes.


Look upon yourself as more powerful than they give you out for, and you have more power; look upon yourself as more, and you have more.

OZZ
19th July 10, 03:17 PM
[QUOTE=Max Stirner)

Yes.[/QUOTE]


I was wondering if you had any opinion on the whole plagiarism debate Re: Nietzsche and Stirner?
Not so much plagiarism as perhaps 'building upon ideas'..but there have been a few scholarly journal articles and papers presented at conferences on the subject. I attended one at Boston University some years ago..

Feryk
19th July 10, 04:08 PM
I was wondering if you had any opinion on the whole plagiarism debate Re: Nietzsche and Stirner?
Not so much plagiarism as perhaps 'building upon ideas'..but there have been a few scholarly journal articles and papers presented at conferences on the subject. I attended one at Boston University some years ago..


This would be the cheese in the mousetrap, Max. Be careful.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
20th July 10, 04:30 AM
This would be the cheese in the mousetrap, Max. Be careful.

mmmmmmm cheeeeeese


I was wondering if you had any opinion on the whole plagiarism debate Re: Nietzsche and Stirner?
Not so much plagiarism as perhaps 'building upon ideas'..but there have been a few scholarly journal articles and papers presented at conferences on the subject. I attended one at Boston University some years ago..

Personally I am not a big fan of Nietzsche. Although I do see the simialrities in their work, I dont think they came to the same conclusions. Stirner was very obviously a lover of freedom for all people through realisation of individual sovergnty, where as Nietzsche was very much concerned with ideas of the powerful crushing the weak, IMO.

It wouldn't suprise me if Nietzsche had ripped off large swathes of Stirner's ideas and then due to his phenomenally overblown ego, could not admit this in public. Although I think Schopenhauer was probably Nietzsche's biggest influence and Stirner often remarked how much he had been influenced by Schopenhauer. So its not inconcievable that the two followed similar processes of thought when attacking society.

What's your take on it?

OZZ
21st July 10, 08:31 PM
Well, pretty much the same as yours. One scholar even went so far as to check Nietzsche's library records from when he was a prof at Basel..no record of him checking out Stirner's book could be found. Although that is not to say he didn't read Stirner's work.
Obvously Schopenhauer was the big influence on Nietzsche, but if he was willing to acknowledge Schopenahuer..indeed, even outright praise him, why shun Stirner and not give him some kudos?
The same scholar also somehow got confirmation of a conversation between Nietzsche and another intellectual whose name I can't recall, in which Nietzsche actually said that he HAD read Stirner and thought his ideas were interesting.
So..who knows? In the end it doesn't really matter I guess. I think it is just a tidbit that people like to use to try and discredit and deride Nietzsche.
I began my academic carer as a big fan of Nietzsche, then developed post-MA malaise with him..instead turning towards Schopenhauer's, Eastern -influenced (and less beligerent ) will to life ideas. Now I respect him, and think he was brilliant and somewhat misunderstood.But I also know enough not to take him too seriously..after all, that would go against his wishes anyways, right?
At the end of the day..I prefer Schopenhauer's ideas about compassion being "That which each of us needs, and what each of us therefore owes." as a moral compass over Nietzsche's perspectives, which are tantamount to social darwinism...

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
22nd July 10, 03:20 AM
Yeah I get were you're comming from with Nietzche. Think he was very much trying to annoy people and have a laugh at their expense. I havent read him in ages might just go back and have another delve. Although I already have a mountain of books on my 'to read' list.

I have never read any Schopenahuer, only read about him from secondary sources. Another thing to add to the list.

I would say at the moment Stirner is my favourite though. I just love the way he puts things and how ahead of the game he was.