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OZZ
19th June 10, 11:49 AM
Another unfortunate incident..

Grizzly kills man near Yellowstone National ParkBy Mead Gruver

Associated Press

+ - CHEYENNE, Wyo. A grizzly bear killed a Wyoming man outside Yellowstone National Park, apparently just hours after researchers trapped and tranquilized the animal.

The attack happened Thursday in the same place where two researchers with the Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team had examined a large adult male grizzly earlier that day, Park County Sheriff Scott Steward said Friday.

The suspect bear was wearing a radio collar. Authorities didn't intend to venture into the woods to chase the animal, however.

They hoped to trap it again and do DNA testing to see if it was indeed responsible.

"Certainly there is a good chance it was the bear they were working on," Steward said. "There's certainly the exception, where it's just another bear."

Shoshone National Forest officials closed off the Kitty Creek area, about six miles outside the Yellowstone East Entrance, until further notice.

"There have been Forest Service people in the area talking to people who live in those cabins, and at the lodges around there, letting them know what's going on," forest spokeswoman Susan Douglas said Friday.

The victim was Erwin Frank Evert, 70, who went hiking around 12:45 p.m. from his cabin in the Kitty Creek drainage.

OZZ
19th June 10, 05:42 PM
And, of course, the inevitable conclusion..

Grizzly suspected of killing man shot and killed

updated 2 hours ago
CODY, Wyo. - Federal wildlife officials have tracked down and killed a grizzly bear suspected of fatally mauling a man outside Yellowstone National Park.

Chris Servheen, grizzly bear coordinator for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, said the bear was found Saturday by trackers following a signal from a radio collar that had been placed around the bear's neck.

The animal was shot and killed from a helicopter, and it died about 2 miles from where the body of Erwin Frank Evert's body was found.

Vieux Normand
19th June 10, 06:06 PM
If they tranked me and stuck one of those around my neck, I'd claw apart some idiot(s) too before they tracked me down (via radio signal, no less) and shot me.

How the fuck is anything supposed to compete in the wild when weighed down by that?

It's like those African game 'preserves' where, contacted by some TV channel wanting to do a special, they starve their lions for a week and then--just as the cameras start rolling--release a half-tranked gazelle in front of the pride.

On TV, the predators always get their prey. In real life, they have about a 10% chance of success...

OZZ
19th June 10, 06:35 PM
I have a real problem with the way people deal with wild animals..I am not one of these whiners who can't see the sensibility of a good deer cull every once in a while, but for fuck's sake..just let them alone and stay the fuck out of their territory or else you accept the risk and deal with it.
What I would really like to see is instead of old men going for a stroll getting killed is more HUNTERS getting killed.

WarPhalange
19th June 10, 08:30 PM
"Old man ventures into a bear's house, bear mauls in self-defense, gets killed for it." is what the headline should have been.

Kein Haar
19th June 10, 09:46 PM
I have a real problem with the way people deal with wild animals..I am not one of these whiners who can't see the sensibility of a good deer cull every once in a while, but for fuck's sake..just let them alone and stay the fuck out of their territory or else you accept the risk and deal with it.
What I would really like to see is instead of old men going for a stroll getting killed is more HUNTERS getting killed.

Why?

If it behooves anyone to have ample and sustainable wild space, it is those who hunt.

What the fuck do you think Ducks Unlimited (http://www.ducks.org/) does with their money? Extinction rallies? Parking lot subsidies?

Vieux Normand
20th June 10, 06:17 AM
I recall a western-Canadian trophy-hunter who went to southern Africa for a chance at his dream-target: cape buffalo. The trip ended badly for the hunter, as the intended target did what cape buffalo often do against those who would prey on them: using the very tall grass as cover, it quietly circled around until it was behind the hunter...then charged, trampling and goring him and his rifle into the ground.

This was called a "tragedy" in local papers. Nonsense. Since when is hunting supposed to be risk-free for the hunter? It sure isn't a safe activity for nonhuman predators. If people want to hunt, let them understand that their intended prey (badly-outgunned, obviously) will do whatever they can to try and survive. Those folk who want a 100% certainty that the tables won't be turned on them can fucking well stay home.

Harpy
20th June 10, 07:20 AM
Ozz and Vieux, agree with you. Those who continually harrassed that bear (collared and tranquilised) should first have the same done to them.

Also, at 70 years old, to be strolling around an area known to be inhabited by grizzlies is a Darwin Award waiting to happen.

Humans are stupid losers by and large.

Kein Haar
20th June 10, 08:12 AM
Speak for yourself.

Ajamil
20th June 10, 08:40 AM
I would have thought there'd be at least some protest by the scientists about not killing the bear they're using for research, but oh well. I wish we could have things in nature kill humans and realize that sometimes it'll happen. Is there really evidence that once a bear kills a human, it'll start always going for humans? I know bears are pretty smart and will remember and teach their young. It just seems to me that there aren't enough human-bear encounters to make it feasible.


On TV, the predators always get their prey. In real life, they have about a 10% chance of success...I'm not saying you're wrong about the activities of the preserve, but they show predators failing in a hunt on TV. I would think the predators always get their prey on TV because the film crew stays out there until they can capture good footage of a hunt.

And I agree hunters are better conservationists than most other groups. I'd support a hunter/conservation group before I would the Sierra Club. Interesting page here (http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=124), toward the bottom they list AHA and the ASPCA as "enemies of wildlife." Wonder what these groups did to piss off the NRA - I don't think they're anti-hunting.


Also, at 70 years old, to be strolling around an area known to be inhabited by grizzlies is a Darwin Award waiting to happen.
http://www.treehugger.com/20090516-grizzly-bear-range.jpg

So anyone in the present area should just stop taking walks once they reach 70? Hell we get black bears in our backyard in Laporte. I agree he shouldn't have been alone, and there are number of other things he could do to make him less of a target. Good article on bears. (http://www.outdoorlife.com/node/45538)

Vieux Normand
21st June 10, 06:32 AM
I know bears are pretty smart and will remember and teach their young. It just seems to me that there aren't enough human-bear encounters to make it feasible.


An excellent argument for repelling bears rather than killing them. Bears that are killed before they can reproduce won't teach anything to any cubs. Those that are killed leaving orphaned cubs behind are leaving behind offspring that will likely die for lack of parental protection. Neither scenario results in bears learning to avoid humans.

Kein Haar
21st June 10, 07:08 AM
Male bears have nothing to do with their young.

In fact, arguably, we saved some cubs lives from a cub killing male.

omfg burn.

OZZ
21st June 10, 11:08 AM
Speak for yourself.

How many great hunters would be great hunters if the animals had guns?
I doubt so many big, tough hunters would be out hunting if the odds were a little more in the animals favor.
And yes, that includes you Kein Haar..I bet you'd be the first to chicken out.Someone who is used to having an equalizer on his hip at all times would be.

Ajamil
21st June 10, 03:33 PM
How many great hunters would be great hunters if the animals had guns? I'm pretty sure they call this "war."

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 06:47 AM
People get all bonerific about the sporting aspect.

Plenty of people harvest them for food. If I want a deer, I don't want a buck...I want a tender yearling. Furthermore, I don't want to freeze my balls off doing it. I'd just as soon shoot from a front porch of a house or something.

I want a deer! That's it. I got a permit, there are plenty of them, and I want a goddamn animal. The degree of challenge really isn't your business. It's called subjective recreation.

They aren't the king's property in this hemisphere.

Now if someone gets their shit pushed in doing something riskier than I'd do...well...whatever.

"If animals had guns..." That's about the lamest hypothetical, and most pathetic cockwaving bait I've ever heard.

Vieux Normand
22nd June 10, 06:52 AM
Male bears have nothing to do with their young.

Oh, I forgot.

Female bears reproduce without a male getting anywhere near them.

An excellent way to guarantee ursine species' survival is to eliminate all the males.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 06:53 AM
All the males? Or the one male every five years who kills a hiker.

Don't get all histrionic.

Ajamil
22nd June 10, 07:06 AM
The pissy thing is that the bear usually is doing us a favor by killing off idiot hikers. They should be thanked, not killed. Like that "Living with Grizzlies" dude - that bear should be wearing a medal, not made to eat a bullet.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 07:07 AM
The only reason he's an idiot, is that he wasn't packing something in excess of .44 magnum himself.

The idiot hiker obviously likes the space into which he hiked, and without idiots like him proving a demand for such places, they probably wouldn't exist.

Vieux Normand
22nd June 10, 07:19 AM
All the males? Or the one male every five years who kills a hiker.

Illogical.

From a species-management perspective, those bears who eliminate members of a surplus-population species are providing a service. On the other hand, those bears who would eliminate members of species which, in many places, are under pressure should be identified and terminated.

In short: eliminate the cub-killers, leave the man-eaters alone.

Ajamil
22nd June 10, 07:23 AM
Yes, this particular hiker didn't sound like an idiot. I would put him in the rare category when it comes to bear encounters. Check the YT bear attacks and see the idiocy of people who don't give bears the caution and space they deserve.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 07:26 AM
Vieux,

That's a really dumb management policy, considering why such a place exists in the first place.

If you dont' want to protect the people who patronize it then it might as well be inaccessible, BLM land designated for timber harvest.

We're not talking about a cull. It's one animal. An animal under pressure only regionally. Plenty more in Canada and Alaska if we run out.

It is a park. It has borders. It is managed. Always has been.

It's pristineness should only give you a chub...not a full blown stiffy.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 10:52 AM
Remember that guy who built himself an anti-Grizzly bear suit?

He just keeps on getting better.

JPS2l5fQ55A

Cullion
22nd June 10, 10:57 AM
If we want to introduce some more 'balance of nature' into the human population, simply end all welfare. Now. Let people starve to death who can't produce enough to feed themselves. Then there'd be more room for bears.

OZZ
22nd June 10, 11:54 AM
Vieux,

That's a really dumb management policy, considering why such a place exists in the first place.

If you dont' want to protect the people who patronize it then it might as well be inaccessible, BLM land designated for timber harvest.

We're not talking about a cull. It's one animal. An animal under pressure only regionally. Plenty more in Canada and Alaska if we run out.

It is a park. It has borders. It is managed. Always has been.

It's pristineness should only give you a chub...not a full blown stiffy.

Tell you what you manly hunter you..why don't you go out and hunt a Grizzly with a bow and arrow?
Then I will give you creds as a 'hunter' ..until then - you are a fucking coward.

resolve
22nd June 10, 11:56 AM
Remember that guy who built himself an anti-Grizzly bear suit?

He just keeps on getting better.

JPS2l5fQ55A



YES


The fact is, regarding armors. We have had the individual technologies for years and years now. We just need visionaries to pull it all together.

Ajamil
22nd June 10, 12:11 PM
j44XyHF3yAg

Poor Broud. He kills a bear with a fucking knife and Ayla gets all the attention for being stupid and pig-headed. "Ooh I'm a strange woman! I stood up to a bear! I don't know when to leave shit alone and got one dude killed and most likely didn't save the other's dude's life anyway!"

Broud was right to rape her.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 12:33 PM
Tell you what you manly hunter you..why don't you go out and hunt a Grizzly with a bow and arrow?
Then I will give you creds as a 'hunter' ..until then - you are a fucking coward.

He doesn't hunt animals to prove he's tougher than them, he hunts them for the meat and to get out in nature. Why do you think somebody needs to be 'more hardcore' by hunting the animal in a way that's less efficient, and more dangerous for them ?

Are you a vegetarian ?

resolve
22nd June 10, 12:33 PM
Arjuna condones rape.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 12:35 PM
Don't get too excited.

OZZ
22nd June 10, 01:10 PM
He doesn't hunt animals to prove he's tougher than them, he hunts them for the meat and to get out in nature. Why do you think somebody needs to be 'more hardcore' by hunting the animal in a way that's less efficient, and more dangerous for them ?

Are you a vegetarian ?

Cullion, let the man speak for himself.
I don't like sport hunting.I think its stupid, unnneccessary and pointless.
There are VERY few groups of people who actually NEED to hunt for food left in the world. I am not opposed to subsistence hunting and culls, etc.
But when some red neck and his five buddies put on their neon orange vests and get into a truck to go out and rifle down bears and deer from a mile away for no other reason that to put the fucking thing's head over their fireplace - as I said, stupid pointless display of dick waving.
There are plenty of ways to 'be out in nature' - you don't have to kill the fucking animals that live there.I think things should be much riskier for the hunters than they are..hence my comments about the bow.Put yourself on a more level playing field and then you can call yourself a hunter.And as I said, most hunters would chicken out the second the odds were not stacked sufficiently in their favor.
Its cowardly, needless and does nothing to further the plight of animals that have a tough enough time as it is thanks to humans who think they need to develop every square mile of land for their own purposes.
Gunning down an animal that is trying to raise its young from a half mile away..if thats your idea of recreation, you need to get a fucking life.
And I know where you are going with the vegetarian shit..you'll have to be more creative than that to lure me in. I am opposed to sport hunting - not meat eating.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 04:51 PM
Tell you what you manly hunter you

When did I ever, and I mean EVER, claim ANYTHING about being what you just implied? This is the most bizarre red herring directed at me in a long time.

I like to shoot female yearlings, over bait if possible, from a furnished cottage in a semi-rustic environment and then eat it. Nothing fair about it. It's a commodity made available to people without a ton of unreasonable restrictions on how to get the flesh on the grill, which is entirely MY point.

I suppose I could leave them to starve once the balsam fir needles are exhausted in a bad year, or let wolves pull their guts out. yeah "Life is tough enough as it is without being gunned down by rednecks". omg lol

So anyway....go on. You got my attention with imaginary bullshit. So, now I'm listening.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 05:02 PM
There are VERY few groups of people who actually NEED to hunt for food left in the world.

So what? Hunting's no crueller than farming (probably less so in many ways). So what if the hunters enjoy it?


I am not opposed to subsistence hunting and culls, etc.
But when some red neck and his five buddies put on their neon orange vests and get into a truck to go out and rifle down bears and deer from a mile away for no other reason that to put the fucking thing's head over their fireplace - as I said, stupid pointless display of dick waving.

Have you ever tried it?, or do you just have some kind of cultural grudge against rednecks that doesn't really have much to do with what they eat and what they do with the bits of the animal you would throw away ?



There are plenty of ways to 'be out in nature' - you don't have to kill the fucking animals that live there.I think things should be much riskier for the hunters than they are..hence my comments about the bow.Put yourself on a more level playing field and then you can call yourself a hunter.And as I said, most hunters would chicken out the second the odds were not stacked sufficiently in their favor.
Its cowardly, needless and does nothing to further the plight of animals that have a tough enough time as it is thanks to humans who think they need to develop every square mile of land for their own purposes.
Gunning down an animal that is trying to raise its young from a half mile away..if thats your idea of recreation, you need to get a fucking life.
And I know where you are going with the vegetarian shit..you'll have to be more creative than that to lure me in. I am opposed to sport hunting - not meat eating.

You eat meat but you're opposed to people killing it ? No, that wouldn't make sense.

You think it's a fair fight down at the farm ? Um.. no that doesn't make sense either.

Or is it the way you imagine the people who do it talk and dress?

How odd.

OZZ
22nd June 10, 05:03 PM
Why?

If it behooves anyone to have ample and sustainable wild space, it is those who hunt.

What the fuck do you think Ducks Unlimited (http://www.ducks.org/) does with their money? Extinction rallies? Parking lot subsidies?

You were the one who started in on me ..you see?

I don't like sport hunters and if you are a sport hunter that means I don't like you.If you are not a sport hunter than my comments mean nothing to you.
My post stated that I would like to see the playing ground equalized a bit to see how courageous some of these so-called 'hunters' would be if they didn't have a huge advantage and you decided to take up their defense. I would also like to see many more of them killed while out hunting. That would make me very happy.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 05:04 PM
I started on you because you think people who use the land are neccesarily exploiting and diminishing it. Even if they are trophy hunters. Not so. The final destination of the carcass is immaterial.

People dress in orange because in rifle season, that's the law.

People take pick ups because that's a tidy way to carry deer...as opposed to the back seat of a cavalier.

People use rifles to quickly kill them, and not run off wounded and mutilated.

So...?

I'm waiting for the punchline of unreasonableness.

OH THEY'RE REDNEX OK GOTCHA and the HEAD MIGHT GO SOMEWHERE I DON'T LIKE OMG OM GOMG

Cullion
22nd June 10, 05:10 PM
You were the one who started in on me ..you see?

I don't like sport hunters and if you are a sport hunter that means I don't like you.If you are not a sport hunter than my comments mean nothing to you.
My post stated that I would like to see the playing ground equalized a bit to see how courageous some of these so-called 'hunters' would be if they didn't have a huge advantage and you decided to take up their defense. I would also like to see many more of them killed while out hunting. That would make me very happy.

I'd like to see you pay what it would cost if all the meat you ate was killed in a 'fair fight'. How much of an advantage do you think the slaughterman has when it comes time to get your Christmas turkey ready for shipping ?

At least Keinhaar's dinner sometimes gets a life of running around its natural environment eating a diet close to what it evolved to eat before he kills it.

All you seem to be saying is 'when my Christmas turkey checks out, at least the people doing it probably aren't having a good time, I like some misery on my plate'.

And that's an absurd opinion.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 05:13 PM
Killing is OK just as long as you don't enjoy it.

What about if you're flying an American fighter jet when you do it?

Is the pilot not entitled to 'Hi-Five' the navigator as they fly into the sunset with the Top Gun theme playing?

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 05:15 PM
We can kill deer from jets? When does THAT season start?

OZZ
22nd June 10, 05:17 PM
So what? Hunting's no crueller than farming (probably less so in many ways). So what if the hunter's enjoy it?



Have you ever tried it?, or do you just have some kind of cultural grudge against rednecks that doesn't really have much to do with what they eat and what they do with the bits of the animal you would throw away ?



You eat meat but you're opposed to people killing it ? No, that wouldn't make sense.

You think it's a fair fight down at the farm ? Um.. no that doesn't make sense either.






Or is it the way you imagine the people who do it talk and dress?

How odd.

Oh, the typical unimaginative 'you eat meat' argument ..how typically Cullion.
Do you know what the difference between sport hunting and subsistence hunting is?
I have participated in deer culls myself.But there is a difference between levelling out a population of deer that are going to starve to death over the winter and using the meat for food VS. Going out and killing a Big Horn Ram so you can stuff its head and put it over your fireplace.
If you cannot see the difference then you are beyond hope.
I know more about hunting than you ever will..you Brits hunted the entire island to extinction hundreds of years ago..so I am sure you haven't been hunting.You on the other hand, Cullion, seem to have so much excess time that you involve yourself in just about every debate on here..whether you have any real- world experience or knowledge of the issues being discussed or not.I think you just really like to argue.
Your argument about how hunting and farming are equally cruel has no bearing on this discussion. Did you ever see me use the word 'cruel'?.I said sport hunting is 'stupid' and it is. My opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 05:22 PM
If you cannot see the difference then you are beyond hope.

I think you're the one having a hard time describing to him, becuase you're having a hard time coalescing the cohesive concept.

So what if someone eats the body and mounts the head?

Does your brain crack down the middle while you run toward the horizon shrieking and pulling your hair out? CUZ IT...DOES...NOT...COMPUTE....

OZZ
22nd June 10, 05:24 PM
As usual..I get thrown to the wolves while the people who agree with me (but don't have the guts to post it) sit back and watch while privately sending me + reps.
Too bad more people don't have the guts to come on here and say what they realy feel.:soapbox:

Sport hunting is for men who need to shoot things to make themselves feel big.
I personally used to get in the ring and knock other men out to make myself feel big.
So maybe Im just as bad - but at least I did it fairly.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 05:26 PM
Fuckin A, OZZ...you found some internet kids who don't like rednex too??

I'll call you Magellan from now on.

OZZ
22nd June 10, 05:31 PM
Fuckin A, OZZ...you found some internet kids who don't like rednex too??

I'll call you Magellan from now on.

And I'll call you what I always have.. a nobody who carries a gun to get respect.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 05:31 PM
You haven't always. We've had a rapport before over...something. Football maybe.

No, this explicit belittlement of me is pretty immediate since you're kind of genuinely upset right now.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 05:34 PM
Oh, the typical unimaginative 'you eat meat' argument ..how typically Cullion.

Incisive, to the point, yes. And yours is kind of.. tangled and confused but oh so passionate.



Do you know what the difference between sport hunting and subsistence hunting is?

Do you know what the difference between a farmed cow's life and a hunted deer's?



I have participated in deer culls myself.But there is a difference between levelling out a population of deer that are going to starve to death over the winter and using the meat for food VS. Going out and killing a Big Horn Ram so you can stuff its head and put it over your fireplace.

Are you suggesting that hunters want to exterminate their prey ?



If you cannot see the difference then you are beyond hope.

Oh the angst.



I know more about hunting than you ever will..

No you don't.



you Brits hunted the entire island to extinction hundreds of years ago..

We hunted the entire island to extinction hundreds of years ago?

Really?

You actually think pheasant, grouse and deer aren't hunted in the UK?

You clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about.



You on the other hand, Cullion, seem to have so much excess time that you involve yourself in just about every debate on here..whether you have any real- world experience or knowledge of the issues being discussed or not.I think you just really like to argue.
Your argument about how hunting and farming are equally cruel has no bearing on this discussion.

Yes it does. You're using idiotic concepts like 'fair fight' when discussing where people get their meat.



Did you ever see me use the word 'cruel'?.I said sport hunting is 'stupid' and it is. My opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Your opinion is stupid. Really stupid. You should change it and stop looking like a fool on the Internet.

OZZ
22nd June 10, 05:34 PM
You haven't always.

Just now, since you're all mad at me.

No actually, I got mad at you when you shit on the hockey thread after my team lost.
There's no surer way to piss off a Canadian.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 05:36 PM
As usual..I get thrown to the wolves while the people who agree with me (but don't have the guts to post it) sit back and watch while privately sending me + reps.

I'm sure you're glad of the vegetarian support. You should form a support group.



Too bad more people don't have the guts to come on here and say what they realy feel.:soapbox:

Because they know they'd look stupid. They're probably repping you out of pity.



Sport hunting is for men who need to shoot things to make themselves feel big.
I personally used to get in the ring and knock other men out to make myself feel big.
So maybe Im just as bad - but at least I did it fairly.

Complaining about sport hunting when you eat meat is for whiney emos with twisted priorties.

OZZ
22nd June 10, 05:44 PM
.


We hunted the entire island to extinction hundreds of years ago?

Really?

You actually think pheasant, grouse and deer aren't hunted in the UK?

You clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about.


.

Yeah, that's about all that's left because your ancestors KILLED EVERYTHING ELSE.
Have you ever hunted Cullion?
I mean hunting, not shooting birds that can't fly.
If not, you don't know more about hunting than me. I know you are bookish, but come on, don't you think actually having DONE something rather than read/philosophized about it counts for something?
You clearly think you know something about everything.I am here to tell you that you do not.
You involved yourself in this debate..why? You don't hunt, don't know anything about hunting or guns or bows and arrows or yellowstone park or bears.What is your stake in this?
I'll tell you what it is.Its the same thng that just about all your posts are
"OK, I HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS ISSUE TOO SO EVERYBODY LISTEN."
At least Kein hunts and is discussing the issues at hand instead of trying to prove he knows how to dissect an argument as well as any 3rd year Philosophy student.

OZZ
22nd June 10, 05:49 PM
I'm sure you're glad of the vegetarian support. You should form a support group.



Because they know they'd look stupid. They're probably repping you out of pity.



Complaining about sport hunting when you eat meat is for whiney emos with twisted priorties.

LMAO at you..this entire FORUM is your support group.
Unlike you I have a life outside this forum.Judging by the amount of time you spend on here, you don't have much of one.
Do a little less posting and online debating and a little more LIVING Cullion.Then you can take me to task..until then , you are just another computer geek with no real-life experience to speak of.
Get out of the house more - you might learn something.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 05:52 PM
Yeah, that's about all that's left because your ancestors KILLED EVERYTHING ELSE.

Foxes? Badgers? Eagles?

Alright, we did exterminate bears and wolves because they attacked people and livestock and weren't good eating

Foxes have proven more elusive, and to be honest, the people that hunt them never wanted them wiped out. Zing!



Have you ever hunted Cullion?
I mean hunting, not shooting birds that can't fly.

No, not deer. Only a couple of birds.



If not, you don't know more about hunting than me. I know you are bookish, but come on, don't you think actually having DONE something rather than read/philosophized about it counts for something?

I think you're talking shit and the other person on the thread who hunts deer regularly has already called you on it.



You clearly think you know something about everything.I am here to tell you that you do not.

You're here to make a fool of yourself in a passionate and ill-thought out manner.



You involved yourself in this debate..why?

Because you had it on a public forum, dumbass, and you're saying patently stupid things.



You don't hunt, don't know anything about hunting or guns or bows and arrows or yellowstone park or bears.What is your stake in this?

Pointing out your stupidity for the people who may sympathize without having thought it through.



I'll tell you what it is.Its the same thng that just about all your posts are
"OK, I HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS ISSUE TOO SO EVERYBODY LISTEN."

Yup, and it's going to stay that way. Sucks when somebody like me comes along to make you look like an idiot, doesn't it ?



At least Kein hunts and is discussing the issues at hand instead of trying to prove he knows how to dissect an argument as well as any 3rd year Philosophy student.

Well, you clearly don't.

Glad to be of help, 'tard.

OZZ
22nd June 10, 05:53 PM
Now, if you'll all excuse me I have a garden to look after...
Ever try gardening Cullion? NO? But I'll bet you have an opinion on it, don't you.lol:bsflag:

Cullion
22nd June 10, 05:55 PM
LMAO at you..this entire FORUM is your support group.
Unlike you I have a life outside this forum.Judging by the amount of time you spend on here, you don't have much of one.
Do a little less posting and online debating and a little more LIVING Cullion.Then you can take me to task..until then , you are just another computer geek with no real-life experience to speak of.
Get out of the house more - you might learn something.

Oh, I'm going to mention you in my suicide note. Can I have your real address so my kids know who to blame ?

Yes Ozz, I own a garden.

I can see from your punctuation and paragraphing that you're very upset now. That's what I like.

I really love the 'Oh yeah!? well I have a real life!!' speeches. I treasure each one. I especially liked the part where you simultaneously boasted about how much invisible rep you were getting, and then complained that none of those people would 'stand up for what they believed in'. That was precious. Truly precious.

Have some tea.

Tell the truth Ozz, something bad happened to you on a hunting trip, didn't it ?

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 06:43 PM
I don't even hunt regularly. 3 years ago was the last time.

I've picked up 5x more roadkill than I've ever brought down with a rifle.

You wanna talk about unfair? I let someone else blast them with a car.

Cullion
22nd June 10, 06:46 PM
You're just not taking this seriously.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 06:51 PM
Scottish bird hunting appeals to me.

So does a German or Bohemian boar hunt.

The European's in general have beautiful traditions surrounding their hunts.

q3bXQ1VQFfw

Cullion
22nd June 10, 06:57 PM
That really was poetry.

You can hunt pheasant and deer in England okay, but Scotland is where you need to be for grouse.

Don't overlook Northern Ireland.

Do you fish ?

Harpy
22nd June 10, 07:21 PM
OZZ!! I'm here!! Was held up at an interview. Thank the gods there is someone who has the balls to take it to Kein and Cull. Lolled hard at the 'cullion takes part in every debate on the site whether or not he has real world experience'.

I think you and me vs. The two of them via sport hunting.

Ajamil
22nd June 10, 10:17 PM
Are you really going to take the hunting is worse than factory farming side of this, Lily? I wished more people would hunt for their meat. It might reduce the number of times I suffer through comments of how barbaric it is to pick out your steak cut at a restaurant while someone eats a fast food burger. It's unfortunate that factory farming is a necessity to meet the demand for flesh today, but not having a domesticated food animal would mean all the animals hunted would be endangered or extinct by now - like commercial fishing.

And where's danno? Shouldn't he be getting in on this or has his facepalming made typing impossible?

For the record, I've been bow hunting once as a young teen. Never got the chance to even shoot at a deer, let alone kill one.

Kein Haar
22nd June 10, 11:15 PM
OZZ!! I'm here!! Was held up at an interview. Thank the gods there is someone who has the balls to take it to Kein and Cull. Lolled hard at the 'cullion takes part in every debate on the site whether or not he has real world experience'.

I think you and me vs. The two of them via sport hunting.

All yours, OZZ!

:SHINNER:

bob
23rd June 10, 12:20 AM
What about executing felons? Lethal injection, electric chair or fair fight?

Cullion
23rd June 10, 02:48 AM
Any method. What's important isn't how they suffer, but whether you enjoy it or not.

Cullion
23rd June 10, 03:03 AM
Just as long as you don't enjoy it.

Kein Haar
23rd June 10, 03:09 AM
...and it's fair.

In other words, Nob, if your prostitutes are covered in fur, and you chase them down in the heat of the day in the desert, and they collapse from heat exhaustion before you (cuz sweat), then that's not fair.

You have to come pretty close to heat stroke yourself.

Cullion
23rd June 10, 03:16 AM
He's not allowed to brag about it afterwards if he wins, either.

If he has them line up and dispassionately slices the neck of each one, with a sombre face, and perhaps the occasional rest break, that's okay though.

Vieux Normand
23rd June 10, 06:58 AM
Vieux,

That's a really dumb management policy, considering why such a place exists in the first place.

Habitat exists because it formed, by natural processes, over millenia. Oh, wait--you mean bear habitat in North America was built by subdivision-developers?


If you dont' want to protect the people who patronize it then it might as well be inaccessible, BLM land designated for timber harvest.

"Patronize". Hmmm. So this developer-built bear habitat is a store? A mall?


It is a park. It has borders. It is managed. Always has been.

Right. First, the mammoths "managed" and gave "borders" to this bear habitat in the Pleistocene, then handed it off to different groups of "managers" until today's "managers" took it over. Oh, wait...you wrote "always", so Pleistocene isn't far back enough...who do you think the first "managers" of this habitat might have been?

Just curious.

Kein Haar
23rd June 10, 07:00 AM
If you're gonna be purposely dense, do it by yourself.

Brownie!

Cullion
23rd June 10, 07:01 AM
Vieux, is this the beginning of an essay about man's seperation from the rest of the natural world and how to assuage this problem by keeping people away from it and not allowing them to kill things in it?

Kein Haar
23rd June 10, 07:04 AM
Unless you get really tired and possibly hurt doing it...

Cullion
23rd June 10, 07:08 AM
When gene therapy is more advanced, say in 150 years, would I be okay to go hunting if I was as strong as a silverback gorilla and had my own claws ?

Kein Haar
23rd June 10, 07:12 AM
Good Q.

The smaller cat species are, last I heard, amonst the most successful hunters in terms of % of successful pounces.

MAYBE A LITTLE TOO GOOD, AMIRITE?

What do we do about this? And how do we identify and stop the redneck cats in particular?

Cullion
23rd June 10, 07:13 AM
We can't interfere in that natural process. We can, however think it's stupid. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Kein Haar
23rd June 10, 07:20 AM
African wild cats are stupid then.

Cullion
23rd June 10, 07:30 AM
I think we've reached a consensus.

Kein Haar
23rd June 10, 07:31 AM
Go ahead and drop the gavel.

Cullion
23rd June 10, 08:11 AM
Give Lily a chance to say something first.

Cullion
23rd June 10, 08:44 AM
As long as you don't enjoy it.

Case closed!

OZZ
23rd June 10, 12:05 PM
Are you really going to take the hunting is worse than factory farming side of this, Lily?

You missed the boat..that's not what was being argued.
You may want to re read the thread ..that is, if you are in the mood for a few more of Cullion's 'opinions'.:lame:
Sport hunting = wasteful killing of animals for no purpose other than to wave your dick.
For losers only.
And Cullion likes it too..even though he's never actually done it.
Just like he hasn't done almost everything he likes to talk about.He spends too much time on the computer to actually experience anything.
But he's got OPINIONS on everything from underwater welding to 17th century philology..
Ah, the joys of being able to read books/webpages in splendid isolation....

OZZ
23rd June 10, 12:07 PM
As long as you don't enjoy it.

Enjoy whatever you want, just don't tell everyone about it because most of us don't give a shit.

Cullion
23rd June 10, 12:11 PM
I knew I was in trouble once Lily spoke up for you. I hope the imaginary version of me you've constructed not to feel like such an idiot is good-looking.

OZZ
23rd June 10, 12:14 PM
I knew I was in trouble once Lily spoke up for you. I hope the imaginary version of me you've constructed not to feel like such an idiot is good-looking.

HA HA...everyone knows you spout off about shit you don't know anything about Cullion.Its what you are known for...
As for what you look like..I already know because one of the guys you used to train with told me *cough* pudge* cough*.
He also told me about your skill level.lol

Cullion
23rd June 10, 12:16 PM
I still train with him. I guess you've owned this argument now.

I guess you must have been on at least one debate team.

OZZ
23rd June 10, 12:18 PM
I still train with him. I guess you've owned this argument now.

I guess you must have been on at least one debate team.

Your ma skill level is irrelevant..but as I recall you had a hell of a lot to say on Bullshido as well.Much more than a beginner has the right to talk with authority about.
I've trained at least 10 more years than you and I had about 4,000 less posts.
So keep typing..keep sitting on your ass.I am off to the gym now..

Cullion
23rd June 10, 12:21 PM
You garden and go to the gym?

How do you find the time ?

I don't recall trying to give you technical advice on Bullshido, but if a change of subject makes you feel more comfortable, then by all means, indulge yourself.

Kein Haar
23rd June 10, 04:33 PM
I believe this has been resolved several posts ago.

Threadt geclosed!

Harpy
23rd June 10, 05:31 PM
NEVAH!!!!!!!!!!!

*throws bucket of blood on Kein*

Ajamil
23rd June 10, 07:07 PM
I've been following the thread the whole time, OZZ. I didn't post because it wasn't my argument till you called people out. The only hunting I've ever seen "waste" an animal is catch and release fishing, and that's not what you are talking about. Even then, the animal is just disfigured, not wasted.

People will dick wave and try to be special about anything, so to me that's a nonissue.

If sport hunters dress and sell the meat,you know, like income to support their family, is that OK or still terrible sport hunting?

If sport hunters eat what they kill, is that OK?

If sport hunters - for a few weeks in season - want to not depend on an uncaring commercial conglomerate to obtain meat, is that OK?

Or does none of that matter, because it's only OK if hunting is your only source of flesh? Do you have to be starving for it to subsistence hunting? How long do you have to starve until you qualify?

I prefer people hunt for their meat not because it's more fair, but because you have to know what you're hunting in order to be successful. Even the guys with guns have to on some level reconnect with nature, with their prey. Then, even in killing, there is respect.

If I really pinned down an opinion, I would say guys who forgo rifles for bows or heaven forbid a knife to take down a buck are more of a dickwaver than anyone else.

Now I would probably agree that traveling to Africa to shoot a lion and take this pic:
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5216/lollion.jpg

Is dickish, but having a simple binary subsistence good/sport bad concept is a fool's reasoning.

Cullion
24th June 10, 03:12 AM
There's no reasoning with Ozz on this subject. His uncle touched him in a bad place on a hunting trip.

Vieux Normand
24th June 10, 06:52 AM
Vieux, is this the beginning of an essay about man's seperation from the rest of the natural world and how to assuage this problem by keeping people away from it and not allowing them to kill things in it?

No.

Just a simple reminder to people not get a sense that "nothing should happen to them" if they step outside their comfy habitat (and if it does, the responsible animal should necessarily be shot for acting according to its nature).

Nor should anyone have a shit-fit if somebody goes into a place where other large animals exist--whether they do so to hike or to hunt--and end up getting killed themselves. We are part of the natural world (the "natural-versus-unnatural" dichotomy being itself a matter of artifice), and it will get around to killing us, whether via bacteria or bear. Fat, quad-riding asshats may get the better of the latter by bait-hunting them, but the microbes are already eating the asshats...

Harpy
24th June 10, 07:27 AM
Thank you Vieux.

"Arrggghhh!!! A shark bit my leg off while I was surfing!!! Kill them all!!!"

Cullion
24th June 10, 07:37 AM
They kill great whites that have attacked people in Australia too. Just like dogs that attack people get put down.

Nobody here advocated random slaughter for lulz, at any point.

Harpy
24th June 10, 07:39 AM
Okay, okay, relax. I can't sleep as my husband is snoring beside me :x

Harpy
24th June 10, 07:41 AM
P.s. - your emotive 'random slaughter for lulz' is denying the issue at hand.

Cullion
24th June 10, 07:45 AM
What issue at hand? Ozz flipped out at Kein about sport hunting, I pointed out that Kein hunts for a bit of meat and he wasn't making sense, Ozz ranted about rednecks a bit more and said 'ur fat, and your training partner said you were a noob 5 years ago', then I pointed out he was being a retard. What's left to say ?

Harpy
24th June 10, 07:48 AM
Hug me?

Night.

Kein Haar
24th June 10, 07:50 AM
That any large mammal exists, it's because we allow it to.

Our "natural" world can wtfown their "natural" world at any time we want. It can, and it has.

I use the word natural in quotes, because it's actually meaningless. Anything derived from the shit on the periodic table is "natural".

Granted, I love that "unspoiled" natures exists, and I want it to continue existing. I even find myself not giving a crap about hunting so much anymore...except for a few novel things I'd like to do. Instead, I'd be just as content to shoot stuff which damages the crops or livestock I'd like to have one day.

Getting down with our "naturalness" in order to be "equal" is like...slumming or something. Pretending to be something we're not. That's called being pretentious.

And it's ghey.

OZZ
24th June 10, 11:14 AM
You garden and go to the gym?

How do you find the time ?

I don't recall trying to give you technical advice on Bullshido, but if a change of subject makes you feel more comfortable, then by all means, indulge yourself.

The point is that you type more than you should about subjects you don't know enough about.
I have always been a firm believer in the idea that people who yap the most usually have the least to contribute.
" An empty tea cup makes the most noise"
You yapped too much on Bullshido and you yap too much here.But at least here you tend to have a handle on more of the things you discuss..I'll grant you that.

Anyways...I am bored with this.
Sport Hunting = the killing of wild animals for fun = stupid. If you think going out on safari and standing in a jeep to shoot lions like they used to do in the '60's is good recreation then you need to do a reality check.The same goes for paying $10,000 for the opportunity to bring down a ram in Alberta....and, yes I know the money goes towards conservation of the animals.Talk about a paradox.
All in all..Vieux and I are on the same page. I think the risk factor for hunters is far too low..and yet the newspapers lament the fact that that every once in a while some dumbass gets killed while he is out hunting.
The more hunters that get killed by animals, or by other hunters ( hell, that's just as good )the better as far as I am concerned.

OZZ
24th June 10, 11:47 AM
That any large mammal exists, it's because we allow it to.

.

Getting down with our "naturalness" in order to be "equal" is like...slumming or something. Pretending to be something we're not. That's called being pretentious.

And it's ghey.

If people took a minute to think about what 'getting back to nature' actually entails they would shit their pants.
Nature is unpredictable, dangerous in the extreme and downright scary.
No, no , no..'getting in touch with nature' is not at all what I am talking about. But what I am talking about is respecting it.
I am talking about the stupidity of going out and shooting animals with no intention of using the beast and its parts for anything other than a trophy.
Like I said, I have participated in deer culls in the forests off the coast of Lake Huron.I also used to go hunting with my native friends who used every scrap of every animal for something useful. They didn't shoot the damn things for fun or to have something to stuff and hang over their mantle.Its about respecting nature and not taking from it for the wrong purposes and , more importantly, not taking more than is neccesary. Native Americans had the right idea how to do this until Europeans showed up and started getting them involved in commercial hunting.
I've seen disgusting pictures of 'big game' hunters surrounded by hundreds of lion skins and dozens of elephant tusks. Now, wait..before you say " That's not the same thing." Yes..yes, it is.What's different about it? Now that lions and elephants are protected and we call shooting them 'poaching' suddenly its not oK to kill lions and surround yourself with the skins to pose for a picture, but its ok to kill a grizzly bear and make a goddamn rug out of him ? Why? Because the government(s) say its ok to kill one and not the other? Lame..
If you support trophy hunting in any way, shape or form - then you are a hypocrite if you decry on the one hand (lions, elephants etc.) and say its ok on the other (species we have not quite hunted to the brink of extinction, YET).
So, apparently there are some people here who think trophy hunting is ok.Fine..think what you want, DO what you want.But don't cry about it when the black bear you are after ends up stalking YOU or your best friend and tearing you apart and don't expect any sympathy from me because you won't get it.

OZZ
24th June 10, 11:53 AM
I've been following the thread the whole time, OZZ. I didn't post because it wasn't my argument till you called people out. The only hunting I've ever seen "waste" an animal is catch and release fishing, and that's not what you are talking about. Even then, the animal is just disfigured, not wasted.

People will dick wave and try to be special about anything, so to me that's a nonissue.

If sport hunters dress and sell the meat,you know, like income to support their family, is that OK or still terrible sport hunting?

If sport hunters eat what they kill, is that OK?

If sport hunters - for a few weeks in season - want to not depend on an uncaring commercial conglomerate to obtain meat, is that OK?

Or does none of that matter, because it's only OK if hunting is your only source of flesh? Do you have to be starving for it to subsistence hunting? How long do you have to starve until you qualify?

I prefer people hunt for their meat not because it's more fair, but because you have to know what you're hunting in order to be successful. Even the guys with guns have to on some level reconnect with nature, with their prey. Then, even in killing, there is respect.

If I really pinned down an opinion, I would say guys who forgo rifles for bows or heaven forbid a knife to take down a buck are more of a dickwaver than anyone else.

Now I would probably agree that traveling to Africa to shoot a lion and take this pic:
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5216/lollion.jpg

Is dickish, but having a simple binary subsistence good/sport bad concept is a fool's reasoning.

You are way behind the 8-ball here and obviously missed most of the points made.I am not going to repeat myself.
If you 'admit' that the above picture is 'kind of dickish' or whatever the fuck you called it..but want to say that other forms of trophy hunting are ok then you are the fool, my friend. You can't have it both ways..

OZZ
24th June 10, 12:00 PM
They kill great whites that have attacked people in Australia too. Just like dogs that attack people get put down.

Nobody here advocated random slaughter for lulz, at any point.

No? You had better go back and read the thread again..
Because that is what I am arguing against..and that is what sport hunting essentially is.
What a joke..you can't even be consistent.

Cullion
24th June 10, 12:22 PM
The point is that you type more than you should about subjects you don't know enough about.
I have always been a firm believer in the idea that people who yap the most usually have the least to contribute.
" An empty tea cup makes the most noise"
You yapped too much on Bullshido and you yap too much here.But at least here you tend to have a handle on more of the things you discuss..I'll grant you that.

Like I said, I don't recall trying to give you technical advice on Bullshido. The vast majority of my posts there were trolling for my own entertainment, and when I did talk about martial arts seriously it was something I had real experience of, and I was quite clear to qualify how I'd come to a conclusion I stated.

People know what I look like from 2 throwdowns and facebook. I'm not some anonymous guy pretending I can hang with Omega. My old painfully honest training log is probably still in the Bullshido BB club somewhere.

As far as not knowing enough about subjects I discuss, well, as far as I can tell, you don't know much about my education or background. If you disagree with something I say, be prepared to back it up with sources and logic. Make your case. You already cited 'oil drilling' as an example of something you don't think I should be discussing.

Well.. is there something specific you think I've said on the subject which doesn't make sense?, do you know what my prior involvement with the oil industry is ?

I can understand you going off the deep end once I called you an idiot, but can't you see, looking back over your posts, that attacking Keinhaar as a 'sport hunter' is a kind of stupid thing to do, when you read what he actually described doing ?

I like to pull people's chains when they get worked up and unreasonable, and you were being unreasonable.


Because that is what I am arguing against..and that is what sport hunting essentially is.
What a joke..you can't even be consistent.

You're arguing against a phantasm. You attacked Keinhaar as a sport hunter, when he doesn't meet your definition of one. You even went on to rant about how he needs a gun to feel tough.

You bellowed like a man who'd just bumped his head, and that will get played with like a toy here.

Ajamil
24th June 10, 03:16 PM
You are way behind the 8-ball here and obviously missed most of the points made.I am not going to repeat myself.What points have you made? You keep railing about sport hunting and lumping in lots of different styles of hunting that aren't.

If you 'admit' that the above picture is 'kind of dickish' or whatever the fuck you called it..but want to say that other forms of trophy hunting are ok then you are the fool, my friend. You can't have it both ways..Yes, traveling across the world to shoot a top predator with crappy meat so you can take a picture is dickish. Never disagreed with you there. I even went as far as to add in people that do catch and release fishing, but that's simply because I'm silly and don't like the idea of hurting things.

But then you decided that people who want to eat some fish they caught, or deer they shot are also trophy hunting just because after they are done using the meat and skin of the animal, they want to use the head or antlers or whatever as decorative wall hangings. If you want hunters to use every part of the animal they kill, what would you recommend they use the head and antlers of a deer for?

If you wish to reasonably limit yourself to people who only hunt for decorations, then I would tentatively agree. Tentative because honestly I've never met a single hunter that fits that description, though I know they're out there.

Of course, if you really want me to rehash the whole thread, we could go back to before you backpedaled and wished for more deaths of all hunters, no exclusions.

What I would really like to see is instead of old men going for a stroll getting killed is more HUNTERS getting killed.

OZZ
24th June 10, 03:31 PM
The attack against Kein Haar was silly and tempramental..I'll admit to that.
He shit on my hockey team - I wanted revenge..hey, what the fuck.I am a Canadian and tend to hold a grudge when it comes to hockey insults.

Aside from that...the argument itself evolved into something more substantial.I argued that hunting for the purpose of 'sport' or 'trophy' hunting was wasteful, stupid and irresponsible.I also said that I thought that if the odds were stacked more in the animals favor, less people would have the courage to go out and hunt. Fuck, moose hunting is too scary for most people even when they have a rifle...let alone hunting animals like bears and other animals that will actually stalk the hunters themselves.
Then you and others TRIED to make it look like I was arguing against hunting overall..TRIED to make me look like a hypocrite and TRIED to bait me on the meat -eating issue which has nothing to do with what I am taking a stand against.
Then you started calling me names, suggested that I had been molested in the woods on a hunting trip and (which, by the way..is probably the last place you want to do that to someone considering they have access to loaded weapons) then tried to say that no one was advocating randomn slaughter for lolz.
What is sport hunting if not slaughter for lolz?Is it just organized slaughter for lolz that is ok?
You are an intelligent, educated person (you talk too much, but you are not stupid) and one of the last people on this site I would expect to defend something like trophy hunting. And don't try to backpeddle now, because thats what you have been doing. The only thing I EVER came out and argued against was sport hunting and you and Kein have spent your time telling me how wrong I am.
If you support trophy hunting and killing animals for sport then you have to be willing to fully support it and its consequences in all its forms. Not just the ones you think are acceptable vs. the one's that are not according to your point of view.
Kein's stupid point about how there are 'lots more' bears and deer up in Alaska if all the ones in the lower US are killed is the height of stupidity. That is exactly the same thing people were saying 75 years ago when they were killing all the lions and tigers ' oh well, there's lots of them around'. Not any more though, is there?
Anyways..like I said, bored with this..
People who advocate the killing of animals for sport often don't see the big picture and thats either because they don't want to, are not capable of it, or just plain don't care.
Which one are you?

OZZ
24th June 10, 03:34 PM
What points have you made?


If you wish to reasonably limit yourself to people who only hunt for decorations, then I would tentatively agree. Tentative because honestly I've never met a single hunter that fits that description, though I know they're out there.

.

Thats all I have been arguing against..what the fuck do fish have to do with this?
I never said anything about fishing..don't try equivocating..its silly.

Kein Haar
24th June 10, 03:40 PM
What is sport hunting if not slaughter for lolz?

So is meat hunting for the North American whiteman in all forms. And you've participated.

It's time to get down to brass fucking tacks.

The only thing a human being needs is...

Ready?

Fresh water
Several amino acids, vitamins, and minerals
A troprical climate
Possibly some sort of shelter

The rest, strictly speaking, is ALL lulz. All ...of... it.

So, how about you just own that?

OZZ
24th June 10, 03:56 PM
So is meat hunting for the North American whiteman in all forms. And you've participated.

It's time to get down to brass fucking tacks.

The only thing a human being needs is...

Ready?

Fresh water
Several amino acids, vitamins, and minerals
A troprical climate
Possibly some sort of shelter

The rest, strictly speaking, is ALL lulz. All ...of... it.

So, how about you just own that?

Ok..you must have watched me laugh while I was out on the cull and slap my buddy on the back while smiling away.
Brass fucking tacks, eh?
LOL
Simple logic from a simple mind is what I call it.
Nice try though..
.
Kein, I don't know why you hunt..if you like to pull down a deer every year during the hunting season and do it responsibly , using the parts for food etc. I dont have a problem with that.
If you are one of these idiots like the moose hunters I met up in North Bay a few years ago
(long story, but interesting one) who hunt for antlers and nothing else, and leave the carcass to rot - then you are a goof.
End of story.

Ajamil
24th June 10, 04:15 PM
Trophy hunting and catch and release fishing are similar in that they put severe distress on the animal - not usually leading to death in fishing, but sometimes - and there is no benefit from the activity that couldn't be obtained by other means. In other words, they are both for teh lulz, except with CnR fishing you don't even get a trophy.

I argued that hunting for the purpose of 'sport' or 'trophy' hunting was wasteful, stupid and irresponsible.What is your honest opinion of how many people hunt this way out of all hunters? Because like I said I've never met one, but then it sounds like you've had more time in hunting social circles than me.

I also said that I thought that if the odds were stacked more in the animals favor, less people would have the courage to go out and hunt.Less people would rock climb if they couldn't use ropes. Making anything more dangerous will restrict the amount of people good enough or dumb enough to attempt it. I don't see what this would accomplish other than getting stupid people hurt (which would probably lead to more animals being killed cuz they hurt humans), dropping the amount of money the Forest services receive from hunting license sales, and encouraging people to go back to group hunting tactics and using traps.

Cullion
24th June 10, 04:15 PM
People who advocate the killing of animals for sport often don't see the big picture and thats either because they don't want to, are not capable of it, or just plain don't care.
Which one are you?

I don't agree with killing an animal just for it's antlers and throwing good meat away, because it's wasteful. Nor do I agree with excessively cruel methods of killing even if the goal is a practical one.

I don't have a problem with somebody killing a deer for meat, and taking the meat home to eat. I even think it would be a perfectly normal thing for them to crack open a beer and maybe brag about it, just like if you'd caught a big fish.

Much as it's a treasured tradition for some in the UK, I consider our traditional fox hunting too cruel, and would never take part in it. I wouldn't have a problem with people making a sport out of hunting foxes if the animal could be killed more quickly.

I am not at all concerned with the mental state of the hunter.

Keinhaar was so definitely and obviously in the category of 'guy killing the animal quickly and efficiently for meat', and that's why I weighed in on you so heavily.

p.s. Liokault still thinks I suck, but I haven't let it put me off.

Kein Haar
24th June 10, 04:37 PM
Yes, simple logic.

As in: "Hey, that sounds like a nice diversion from everyday life I'd like to particpate in."

Life is full of choices. Your own subjective tastes led you to kill deer instead of go to a movie.

But it's ok because:

-You didn't keep the head
-You didn't enjoy it
-If you did "enjoy" it, you certainly didn't express it.
-If you did express it, it was stoicly
-And if you did express it stoicly, it was alone...far from any "buddies".

Ok. I think it's finally crystal clear.

OZZ
24th June 10, 05:00 PM
[QUOTE=Arjuna]
What is your honest opinion of how many people hunt this way out of all hunters? Because like I said I've never met one, but then it sounds like you've had more time in hunting social circles than me.
QUOTE]

I have spent the majority of my 'hunting time' with native people and they (at least , the one's I was adopted by) were very responsible about things.Even going so far as to respect the animals the way their ancestors did by saying a few words of thanks to the elements and apologizing to the animals in question for taking its life. Ceremonial, I admit..and old school..but it is indicative of a time when when their ancestors used to be connected to the land in a meaningful way.
People will mock the idea of 'apologizing' to a deer carcass, but its traditional for many natives to do so.
Unfortunately, there are just as many natives who don't respect the old ways and kill too many deer because they are greedy and want to sell the meat for money.So they are not perfect either. In fact, one of the most disgusting things I read about recently was a group of aboriginal teens out in BC who were killing bald eagles with pellet guns and selling their parts to Chinese people for herbal remedies. They found over a hundred dead eagles in a pile with their claws and beaks cut off..
How many hunters are like the assholes I described above? If I were to make an estimate..I would say maybe 20%.My friends and I literally got into a bar brawl in North Bay with a bunch of American moose hunters who were drunk and being assholes. They came right out and told us they didn't give a damn about our laws and hunted 'what they wanted, when they wanted'.I know there are a lot of people that do the same..those assholes got arrested too..HA.
I think I have stayed consistent and made my points here..yeah, I got a little rash at the beginning.But the idea that people in this day and age could argue that killing animals purely for sport is ok just seems ludicrous to me.
One of the biggest problems we have in Canada is the poaching of Black Bears for Chinese medicine. The gall bladders are taken and the bodies left to rot.
I know nobody here is supporting this kind of thing...but trophy hunting is not much different in my view.

OZZ
24th June 10, 05:02 PM
Yes, simple logic.

As in: "Hey, that sounds like a nice diversion from everyday life I'd like to particpate in."

Life is full of choices. Your own subjective tastes led you to kill deer instead of go to a movie.

But it's ok because:

-You didn't keep the head
-You didn't enjoy it
-If you did "enjoy" it, you certainly didn't express it.
-If you did express it, it was stoicly
-And if you did express it stoicly, it was alone...far from any "buddies".

Ok. I think it's finally crystal clear.

Dude, you are veering off topic and trying to cloud the issue. We aren't debating subjectivity and the definition of a good time..we WERE talking about the idiocy of hunting for sport.
Get a life.

EDIT - oh, and FUCK THE BLACKHAWKS !!

OZZ
24th June 10, 05:04 PM
[QUOTE=Cullion
p.s. Liokault still thinks I suck, but I haven't let it put me off.[/QUOTE]

He never said you sucked, just that ou were a pudgy beginner ..and that was 4 or 5 yrs ago.

OZZ
24th June 10, 05:10 PM
[QUOTE=Cullion]
Much as it's a treasured tradition for some in the UK, I consider our traditional fox hunting too cruel, and would never take part in it. I wouldn't have a problem with people making a sport out of hunting foxes if the animal could be killed more quickly.
QUOTE]

I used to work for a woman who participated in those hunts.In fact, I used to care for the very horses she took out on the hunts..
They all dressed up like British Aristocrats and went out a couple times a year, fucking posers..rich pricks.
Yeah, its pretty cruel.
Anyways..I have to go...If Kein wants to philosophize about the nature of enjoyment (* grab firmly with right hand and proceed*) then he's free to do so.
I have a garden to tend to.
Yes, garden in the evening, gym during the day..that's what I DO.

Kein Haar
24th June 10, 05:22 PM
Since we've already established the various things which trophy hunting is not mutually exclusive to, it turns out that the subjective experience defines it to a huge degree for you.

You keep rearranging the goal posts to make post hoc amendments to things you already said.

You're bad at this.

Harpy
24th June 10, 05:43 PM
Kein, can you go with your softer side and listen, give things a chance? Not just slam your instinctual hardass attitude up?

Ozz - you're being trolled by Kein and Cullion. They really don't believe strongly in such issues and just mock those that do.

Kein Haar
24th June 10, 06:02 PM
What should I give a chance to?

Cullion
24th June 10, 06:09 PM
Shit, Lily's got his back. What are we going to do Keinhaar ?

Kein Haar
24th June 10, 06:12 PM
Spit-roast her.

That works on both levels.

Harpy
24th June 10, 06:15 PM
Cullion!!! I'm waiting for your Youtube video on Underwater Welding :P

Kein - be a gentleman.

Cullion
24th June 10, 06:23 PM
Keinhaar has scented love-mitten. I don't think I can protect you this time.

Ajamil
24th June 10, 07:05 PM
http://www.pepperspraycenter.com/blog/media/1/20060430-BR-9.jpg

Kein Haar
24th June 10, 08:43 PM
That's all well and good....provided you don't enjoy repelling the bear.

Ajamil
24th June 10, 09:11 PM
That was for Lily to use against you. Didn't know you considered yourself a bear.

Harpy
24th June 10, 09:12 PM
Arjie, who drew the pic of you? The face needs to be longer and slimmer but very good likeness.

Ajamil
24th June 10, 09:30 PM
Conde Koma

OZZ
25th June 10, 02:48 PM
What should I give a chance to?

Peace

OZZ
25th June 10, 02:52 PM
Since we've already established the various things which trophy hunting is not mutually exclusive to, it turns out that the subjective experience defines it to a huge degree for you.

You keep rearranging the goal posts to make post hoc amendments to things you already said.

You're bad at this.

You think you are good at it , but you really aren't.:jerkit2yf:

Vieux Normand
25th June 10, 03:51 PM
That any large mammal exists, it's because we allow it to.

That anyone without nukes continues to exist, it's because anyone with nukes allows it.

Hey, I could play this all day!

Or not...back to work.

Enjoy your extended vacation.

Kein Haar
25th June 10, 05:06 PM
Right...that's exactly what I said.

This our current "natural" order of things. That's as "natural" as it gets.

You can hate that all you want.

Vieux Normand
25th June 10, 11:00 PM
Right...that's exactly what I said.

This our current "natural" order of things. That's as "natural" as it gets.

You can hate that all you want.

I have your permission, do I?

Your magnanimity, however, is misplaced. I've written on other threads regarding how I used to hunt and fill my freezer with venison. The only reason I no longer do so is that, presently living and working in a city, I don't get enough hours off to go and get some game, and I don't like what passes for "meat" on supermarket shelves.

Earlier in the thread, I simply mentioned some news stories involving hunters who ended up getting killed by their intended prey--despite the latters' lack of firepower--as a reminder that, in the natural order of things (which, of course, includes our species), even the apex predator doesn't always win. Both you and Cullion jumped on this as some sort of anti-hunting humans-should-stay-out-of-pristine-nature screed, though I've taken no position against hunting for food.

As for the whole "we-can-wtfpwn-any-large-mammal" chestbeat, there are responsible hunters and then there are the lardasses who spotlight-hunt from quads. The latter would have no clue how to invent anything for themselves, and can hardly waddle twenty steps without stooping over to catch their breaths. Storebought firepower gives them as much chance of a successful hunt as is given to the responsible hunters, despite their physical and mental inferiority to anything else--human or otherwise--in the woods. I saw this spectacle time and again while living in the Yukon and the Northwest Territories. If they flip their quad and die, or if they catch giardia and die, or if a pissed-off wounded bear or moose turns table on them while they're reaching for another cold one...well, that's all part of nature.

If not, Joe Slobswine and his lardy buddies will get wtfpwned by some microbe, cancer cells or something else both microscopic and mindless (and "all-natural"). Human superiority--like the survival of all else--is a temporary phenomenon, and no amount of beer-belly-beating about walmart-purchased firepower will change that.

That's not any anti-hunting screed. That's just the way it is.

Kein Haar
26th June 10, 02:40 AM
It's not a chest beat. It's just...true.

I'm the lard-ass shooting from a porch. Then again, I'm not proud of shit, cuz it's not supposed to be a challenge. It's to fill my tag and get something tasty and novel.

That a species is protected because someone wants sustainable numbers to hunt from....that's a good thing.

Yieux and Ozzy just have an issue with certain intentions and demographics, regardless of the fact that meat and trophy hunters alike still need sufficient numbers from which to legally harvest, and they support that shit with lots of money.

An analogue is that some assholes don't like Zoos. Ok, they'll just stop their captive breeding and preservation programs abroad for endangered species then. Nyah.

Nifty way to cut off your nose to spite your face.

Ajamil
26th June 10, 07:07 AM
If we're going to give up our superior weaponry, then I think the animals should too.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5748/apropergoatit.png

Vieux Normand
26th June 10, 11:29 AM
It's not a chest beat. It's just...true.

Point taken. The malodourous quad-spotlight lardasses I've seen have no chest to beat. Just more lard, a bit higher up.


I'm the lard-ass shooting from a porch.

I never would have guessed.


Then again, I'm not proud of shit...

Nothing wrong with a bit of clear self-reflection.


...cuz it's not supposed to be a challenge.

That's why it's so amazing to read about the guy who gets mauled to death while on a hunting trip, and to see it regarded as a "tragedy". Was the nimrod so "separated-from-nature" that he forgot that firepower reduced the odds of the prey turning tables on the hunter in order to survive...but didn't eiminate that possibility?


That a species is protected because someone wants sustainable numbers to hunt from....that's a good thing.

That anyone would think that that's the only reason why species are protected, and that tag-fees are the only source of public money going towards that end...that's a hilarious thing.


Yieux and Ozzy just have an issue with certain intentions and demographics, regardless of the fact that meat and trophy hunters alike still need sufficient numbers from which to legally harvest, and they support that shit with lots of money.

'Cause it's a well-established fact that the inferior, always and without exception, hunt legally.


An analogue is that some assholes don't like Zoos. Ok, they'll just stop their captive breeding and preservation programs abroad for endangered species then.

I'd be all for shutting down zoos...except that, with increasing numbers of the inferior infesting habitat with everything from subdivisions to RVs, and increasing extraction activities to satisfy lardass consumer needs compromising even more habitat, the displaced animals need to live somewhere.

Kein Haar
26th June 10, 01:44 PM
'Cause it's a well-established fact that the inferior, always and without exception, hunt legally.


The alternative is called poaching.

Any other of your mystery assumptions I should know about?


That anyone would think that that's the only reason why species are protected, and that tag-fees are the only source of public money going towards that end...that's a hilarious thing.

I didn't say it was the only reason. In fact, we were originally talking about a DAMN HIKER IN A NATIONAL PARK, and my defense of him.


That's why it's so amazing to read about the guy who gets mauled to death while on a hunting trip, and to see it regarded as a "tragedy".

I didn't say that was a tragedy, and I never said that the animal in question should be tranquilized and relocated/killed for such a reason.

What I didn't say could fill a novel, eh? No wonder you're so snarky at me. I feel like I'm talking to a woman....I'm supposed to be a mind reader.

Vieux Normand
26th June 10, 08:30 PM
What I didn't say could fill a novel, eh?

Doubtful...that would require something called "thought".


I feel like I'm talking to a woman...

Again, a dubious claim. If ever you find one willing to share conversation with you, then will you know how it feels.

OZZ
27th June 10, 03:32 PM
I get the feeling Kein hasn't spoken with too many women lately...rational arguments are not usually their forte.

OZZ
27th June 10, 03:35 PM
Oh, and here we go with another incident..

Marauding bear shot in West Vancouver

This large black bear was shot outside a home in West Vancouver Friday. (CBC)West Vancouver police shot and killed a large black bear that had entered a home in a residential area of West Vancouver Friday.

The male bear, weighing about 100 kilograms, had gotten into at least one home and a car in the area of 25th Street and Ottawa Street, where it opened a refrigerator door and also killed a pet rabbit, conservation officers said.

"This is one of the smarter bears I've seen," said conservation officer Jack Trudgian. "It learned how to push doors open open fridges."

It appeared to have opened a centre console in the car to get at some candy there.

The bear had taken brownies out of the refrigerator and eaten them all, said Trudgian.

Trudgian said the bear had been tagged, indicating it had been caught in an area of human habitation and relocated in the wild once already.

Police and conservation officers prepare to remove the body of the 100-kg bear. (CBC)
"Nobody likes to destroy a bear, but sometimes it has to be done," Trudgian said.

Trudgian said a bear had been reported marauding in the neighbourhood for about two weeks, but there was not way of knowing for sure whether this was the same animal.

West Vancouver police were expected to release details Saturday about the shooting of the bear.

Ajamil
27th June 10, 04:13 PM
Marauding bear shot in West VancouverMarauding? LOL. Try foraging.


"This is one of the smarter bears I've seen," said conservation officer Jack Trudgian. "It learned how to push doors open open fridges."He must not come in contact with a lot of black bears. This is pretty standard in Laporte. Unless he meant the bear picked the lock before pushing open the door, cuz that would be top tier.


Trudgian said the bear had been tagged, indicating it had been caught in an area of human habitation and relocated in the wild once already.It's shaky, but this might be reason to shoot. The bear returns to what he now considers his foraging area, and doesn't hesitant to enter homes - this will end up in a startled bear and dead people.

Sad all around, and a great example of why you get fined out the ass for leaving food outside (deliberately is worse, but even accidentally feeding a bear in Sullivan Country can get you in trouble).

Of course the bear wasn't bothering with just the outside stuff. I wouldn't bother with a bear in the neighborhood, but a bear in the house is a problem.

DerAuslander108
30th June 10, 09:35 AM
I've heard that if you wrap bear meat around an apple and then roast, it's really friggin delicious.

Vieux Normand
30th June 10, 09:45 AM
I've heard that if you wrap bear meat around an apple and then roast, it's really friggin delicious.

I've heard that if you stay under the sun and then roast, you get sunburn.

DerAuslander108
30th June 10, 10:47 AM
I've heard that if you stay under the sun and then roast, you get sunburn.

I've also heard that people taste like SPAM.

I friggin love SPAM.

Madgrenade
30th June 10, 10:50 AM
My God he took their brownies? Clearly richly deserves that death sentence.

DerAuslander108
30th June 10, 11:01 AM
Yeah, I'd stab a fucker in the sphincter with a rusted tuning fork if he touched my brownies.

KO'd N DOA
30th June 10, 11:24 AM
Bear meat is an aquired taste and incredibly greasy, and only when it is mixed with porc in a sausage, does it become palitable. Fire roasted when you are really hungry is not too bad, but bear is not worth the trouble.

Point regarding bear hunting at least in Canada...the demand for bear parts for medicine is combining the red necks with the hunger of an overseas market.

Madgrenade
30th June 10, 11:29 AM
Bear meat is an aquired taste and incredibly greasy, and only when it is mixed with porc in a sausage, does it become palitable. Fire roasted when you are really hungry is not too bad, but bear is not worth the trouble.

Point regarding bear hunting at least in Canada...the demand for bear parts for medicine is combining the red necks with the hunger of an overseas market.

You would be surprised at the number of bears I haven't eaten. Never eat the liver of a carnivore.

Vieux Normand
30th June 10, 11:34 AM
I friggin love SPAM.

You must, to do it so well.

Fortunate are those whose vocation and avocation are on and the same.

KO'd N DOA
30th June 10, 11:34 AM
I don't eat livers, except cod liver, but hey...

DerAuslander108
30th June 10, 11:37 AM
Organ meat is highly underrated.

KO'd N DOA
30th June 10, 11:42 AM
In October last year, I was with a co-worker a in the remote forest for work, no gun or bear spray. We saw tracks everywhere, and eventually we saw one scouting us from behind some bushes on higher ground than us.

I gave him a sporting chance...

OZZ
30th June 10, 12:04 PM
In October last year, I was with a co-worker a in the remote forest for work, no gun or bear spray. We saw tracks everywhere, and eventually we saw one scouting us from behind some bushes on higher ground than us.

I gave him a sporting chance...

I have heard similiar stories from people about Black Bears in Northern Ontario.They will often circle around you and check you out..

And eating any kind of liver is disgusting.Yeah, lets eat the organ that filters all the bad shit in an animals body..it ought to taste great!

I remember the first time I was forced to eat liver when I was 9 ..last time I ever did too. I smopthered it in ketchup and it was still disgusting..
As far as bear meat goes..I have heard it is quite dry.But I am sure it depends on how you cook it.

KO'd N DOA
30th June 10, 02:18 PM
As far as bear meat goes..I have heard it is quite dry.But I am sure it depends on how you cook it.

Next time I get a chunk, I'll send some down the 401 to you, (frozen and with documentation to avoid legal problems). You can see for yourself. Bears are fat, very fat, full of fat and have greesy layers of fat inbetween the fat and the muscle. To get it dry you would have to filet off every fat you see and then boil it.

KO'd N DOA
30th June 10, 02:29 PM
I have heard similiar stories from people about Black Bears in Northern Ontario.They will often circle around you and check you out..


Black Bear managment in Northern Ontario is NOT a good example of bear population management, and infact will go far in supporting that of the hunters being an integral part of the food chain.

Reintroduction of the Spring Hunt.
http://www.northernontario.org/BearRelocation/BearRelocation_1.htm

I say, introduce the Grizzly and Siberian tigers to take care of the deer and bear overpopulation.

Kein Haar
30th June 10, 02:46 PM
Siberian Tigers would be the bomb!

OZZ
30th June 10, 03:12 PM
Sabre Tooth Tigers..now THAT would be fun.

resolve
4th July 10, 03:27 PM
I read this book about a boy who killed a bear in a Native American tribe a while back. The tribe spit-roasted the bear meat over a fire which melted alot of the fat off and added smoky flavor and then drizzled honey over it periodically.

The book made it sond like the most spectacularly awesome meat ever. But I dunno. Predators tend to be very gamey tasting. I've had cougar before and it's not that great.

Although that may not be true for reptiles. Crocodile and alligator meat is freaking fantastic!

Harpy
4th July 10, 06:45 PM
Any of you guys tormented animals as children?

Ajamil
4th July 10, 07:24 PM
I would squish caterpillars. I spent two hours trying to get a bivalve open I found in the creek - that knife in the valve thing is harder than it looks. Other than that, no.

Although during biology's frog dissection I had a grand ol time playing "where can we stick the probe?"

bob
5th July 10, 01:05 AM
I read this book about a boy who killed a bear in a Native American tribe a while back. The tribe spit-roasted the bear meat over a fire which melted alot of the fat off and added smoky flavor and then drizzled honey over it periodically.

The book made it sond like the most spectacularly awesome meat ever. But I dunno. Predators tend to be very gamey tasting. I've had cougar before and it's not that great.

Although that may not be true for reptiles. Crocodile and alligator meat is freaking fantastic!

Why would a hunter-gatherer culture waste all that energy rich fat?

Kein Haar
5th July 10, 03:25 AM
Cuz they have the same taste buds as us....and it probably tastes like ass.

Like wild goose.

DerAuslander108
5th July 10, 10:18 AM
Gator is good eatin.

KO'd N DOA
5th July 10, 10:58 AM
Any of you guys tormented animals as children?

Define torment.

KO'd N DOA
5th July 10, 11:33 AM
Cuz they have the same taste buds as us....and it probably tastes like ass.

Like wild goose.

Wild goose is not bad, way better then wild duck, but both taste like swamp or bog.

Ajamil
5th July 10, 12:38 PM
I fear I've missed out a lot on not eating any reptiles in my life.