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OZZ
25th May 10, 12:11 PM
The level of violence in this country never ceases to amaze me..as does the level of corruption in the gov't. The gangs the police are now fighting were created by the government many years ago to drum up votes and despite their illegal activities like drug dealing, gun running and murder - they still retain ties to the parties that founded them.
What a mess..
.
Jamaica cops attack drug lord's slum stronghold Module body

1 hour, 48 minutes ago


By David Mcfadden, The Associated Press

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KINGSTON, Jamaica - Thousands of heavily armed police and soldiers continued an assault into the capital's most violent downtown slums on Tuesday, scouring buildings for weapons and battling die-hard defenders of a powerful Jamaican gang leader sought by the U.S.


Jamaica's security forces, reeling from bold attacks by masked gangsters loyal to underworld boss Christopher "Dudus" Coke, were in the midst of a nearly day-long assault in the heart of West Kingston's ramshackle slums, long afflicted by gang strife.


On Tuesday, the third consecutive day of unrest, masked gunmen in West Kingston vanished down side streets barricaded with barbed wire and junked cars intended to block outsiders. The sound of gunfire echoed across the neighbourhoods in Jamaica's south coast, far from the all-inclusive tourist meccas of the north shore.


It was not immediately clear what was happening inside the patchwork of slums where Coke's supporters began massing last week after Prime Minister Bruce Golding dropped his nine-month refusal to extradite Coke, who has ties to his political party.


Kingston streets outside the battle zones were mostly empty, schools and numerous businesses were closed, hospitals offered only emergency services and the government appealed for donations of blood. The government on Sunday implemented a monthlong state of emergency.


The violence has not spilled into the capital's wealthier neighbourhoods, but gangs from slums just outside the capital have joined the fight, erecting barricades on roadways and shooting at troops.


The number of dead and wounded was unclear from inside poor areas where clashes erupted.


In Spanish Town, a rough community just outside the areas where the government has installed a state of emergency, police reported that a firefight killed two local people, including a little boy.


In the gang-heavy town of Portmore, police said gunmen sprayed bullets at a minivan ferrying local people. It was not clear if anyone died.


But West Kingston, which includes the Trenchtown slum where reggae superstar Bob Marley was raised, remains the epicenter of the violence.


Gangsters loyal to Coke began barricading the area's streets and preparing for battle immediately after Golding caved in last Monday to a growing public outcry over his opposition to extradition. Jamaica's leader, whose represents West Kingston in Parliament, had claimed the U.S. indictment relied on illegal wiretap evidence.


Security Minister Dwight Nelson said "police are on top of the situation," but gunfire was reported in several poor communities and brazen gunmen even shot up Kingston's central police station.


The drug trade is deeply entrenched in Jamaica, which is the largest producer of marijuana in the region and where gangs have become powerful organized crime networks involved in international gun smuggling. It fuels one of the world's highest murder rates; the island of 2.8 million people had about 1,660 homicides in 2009.


In a sun-splashed island known more for reggae music and all-inclusive resorts, the violence erupted Sunday afternoon after nearly a week of rising tensions over the possible extradition of Coke to the United States, where he faces a possible sentence of life in prison.


He leads one of the gangs that control politicized slums known as "garrisons." Political parties created the gangs in the 1970s to rustle up votes. The gangs have since turned to drug trafficking, but each remains closely tied to a political party. Coke's gang is tied to the governing Labor Party.


The U.S. State Department said it was "the responsibility of the Jamaican government to locate and arrest Mr. Coke." A U.S. Embassy spokeswoman denied widespread rumours that U.S. officials were meeting with Coke's lawyers.


Coke's lead attorney, Don Foote, told reporters his legal team had planned to have talks with U.S. officials at the embassy but the meeting was cancelled.

Foote refused to say whether Coke was hunkered down in the barricaded Tivoli Gardens slum or was somewhere else in the country.

resolve
25th May 10, 02:26 PM
The criminal elements in Jamaica have been stronger than that nation's government for years.

I used to work with a Jamaican ex-pat named Daniel at a biotech company doing shipping. He used to tell me all kinds of stories from Kingston. The most shocking thing is when diplomats or CEOs or other important people come apparently they don't get security from the government but instead buy it from the more powerful gangsters running the area.

breen
25th May 10, 03:23 PM
I live in jamaica could give you updates if you want and important people do get a police guard....I have never heard of anyone getting security from any gunman

P.S example when the queen visited

resolve
25th May 10, 03:59 PM
Awesome I'd love to hear it breen!

The guy, Daniel, I worked with hadn't been in Jamaica for 20 years or so when I met him. He was about 42 when we worked together. Things might have changed, or maybe he was stretching the truth a bit. Either way, good to know we have someone from the Carribean on Sociocide :)

Ajamil
25th May 10, 05:01 PM
I would love updates, breen, and I think many others would too. Always nice to hear from other parts of the world, and always great to have first-hand experiences.

This is serious stuff, and I will hold off making stupid movie reference jokes for now.

Are the gangs a serious disturbance to otherwise innocent populace (present events excluded)? I mean is there a lot of extortion, theft, random violence, etc.? Or do they mainly deal with drug and gun running? I would think Jamaica would be an excellent stop-over point for cartels in S. America - are gangs there tied with Columbian or other?

Adouglasmhor
25th May 10, 05:06 PM
Is drug lord Coke being pursued by Officer Constable the policeman and Private Gun the soldier?

breen
25th May 10, 06:03 PM
I would love updates, breen, and I think many others would too. Always nice to hear from other parts of the world, and always great to have first-hand experiences.

This is serious stuff, and I will hold off making stupid movie reference jokes for now.

Are the gangs a serious disturbance to otherwise innocent populace (present events excluded)? I mean is there a lot of extortion, theft, random violence, etc.? Or do they mainly deal with drug and gun running? I would think Jamaica would be an excellent stop-over point for cartels in S. America - are gangs there tied with Columbian or other?


Gangs usually don't trouble innocent people. In contrast they are protectors of their communities providing income for the people through drugs. And generally dons keep their men under control. The only random violence would really be the beating of cross dressers /gays.


And yes they are seeking Dudus but he isn't in Tivoli

Anyway the police/JDF supposedly used bombs what do you think about that?

I saw firsthand a odd plane and a few helicopters which I think are for surveillance but people have phoned in on radio stations complaining of bombings and requesting aid as they need food..

OZZ
25th May 10, 08:01 PM
Crazy..nice to have you on board breen..
Tell me, if a white tourist was to go to the slums, would he be safe?Just wondering because if the gangs don't harm innocent folk - does that extend to outsiders as well?

breen
25th May 10, 10:17 PM
Crazy..nice to have you on board breen..
Tell me, if a white tourist was to go to the slums, would he be safe?Just wondering because if the gangs don't harm innocent folk - does that extend to outsiders as well?


.......Depends you might get robbed but if you are there for a party chances are very low....If you are there during times of war then you will get shot..Doesnt really matter if your white black or asian though racism only exists in jamaica in the form of mild harassment and increasing of prices etc.

Adouglasmhor
26th May 10, 02:55 AM
My late lamented buddy Mark Cartapete was in Jamaica some years ago and because he was veggie but a baldy they kept cooking his rice with bones in it to make sure he got some nourishment. They couldn't get that someone who was not either a 7th dayer or Rastafarian could be vegetarian.

But he went to dance halls and parties all over the place and no one gave him any real grief. Possibly because his mixed Syrian and Scottish looks were not typically white though.

Zendetta
28th May 10, 10:22 AM
I knew a guy who was murdered by crackheads in Jamaica.

Anyhow, if you are a Drug Kingpin, you can do worse than have a name like "Dudus Coke".

Robot Jesus
28th May 10, 12:02 PM
dubious coke?

breen
28th May 10, 02:18 PM
....u idiots insulting Mr. President?.....

OZZ
28th May 10, 02:33 PM
The whole time the fighting was going on this kingpin was probably already out of the damn country.

Ajamil
28th May 10, 03:27 PM
LOL - news today called this "riots."

Cullion
28th May 10, 04:25 PM
Gangs usually don't trouble innocent people. In contrast they are protectors of their communities providing income for the people through drugs. And generally dons keep their men under control. The only random violence would really be the beating of cross dressers /gays.


And yes they are seeking Dudus but he isn't in Tivoli

Anyway the police/JDF supposedly used bombs what do you think about that?

I saw firsthand a odd plane and a few helicopters which I think are for surveillance but people have phoned in on radio stations complaining of bombings and requesting aid as they need food..

It sounds like a lot of ordinary people have a personal loyalty to Dudus. Does this go all the way through Jamaican society, or is largely just poor people ?

breen
28th May 10, 09:23 PM
Just people in Tivoli... I'll help you to understand

5 P's of Dudus

Pays children's school fee
Puts food on their plate
Protection
Pasa Pasa and PARTIES
Provides Utilities


He also got strong ties with the JLP ( Jamaica Labour Party which is in power atm)

And for the common people its not a loyalty to Dudus but rather a resentment 2 the US in case you haven't noticed no one wanted 2 trouble Dudus. This extradition saga causes problems for everyone...And what happens when you remove him and his brother? His son is insane if he gets power.. I might leave

Cullion
28th May 10, 09:35 PM
Thanks for explaining it. There's nothing like this told in the news in the UK, it's just explained as 'a really serious criminal with a huge gang is shooting at the police to resist arrest'.

Wounded Ronin
29th May 10, 04:24 PM
If all the drug dealers are coming out of the woodwork to openly engage the government, time to call artillery strikes on their asses.

Cullion
29th May 10, 05:43 PM
That's a great idea WR! That's totally the way to get a high score!

(did I mention that I'm still amazed anybody wasted money putting you through an Ivy league school?)

Kein Haar
29th May 10, 05:59 PM
He's an ivy leaguer?

Bullshit.

He went to Fox Valley Technical college in Wisconsin.

Cullion
29th May 10, 06:07 PM
I think WR went to some Ivy League college that his dad's UN job paid for. My guess is a softball course like Public Health at Columbia.

Don't get me wrong, I thought he was a pretty cool guy when he wrote his diary of his peace corps experience in Micronesia, but now he just comes across like a 'meh' video game addict with a gummint job who plays too many video games and was educated way beyond his innate ability.

Wounded Ronin
31st May 10, 12:54 PM
I think WR went to some Ivy League college that his dad's UN job paid for. My guess is a softball course like Public Health at Columbia.

Don't get me wrong, I thought he was a pretty cool guy when he wrote his diary of his peace corps experience in Micronesia, but now he just comes across like a 'meh' video game addict with a gummint job who plays too many video games and was educated way beyond his innate ability.

Sigh.

Okay, Cullion, what is the correct post for this thread?

"Clearly the drug lord is a Robin Hood character and the government is eville"?

Would that garner your approval? Because that totally wouldn't be a superficial left-wing ivy leaguer sentiment.

So you tell me, Cullion, what is the correct comment to make in this situation? What would you say that just blows us all out of the water?

Cullion
31st May 10, 12:59 PM
In your shoes ? I'd just keep quiet and read.

Wounded Ronin
31st May 10, 01:07 PM
In your shoes ? I'd just keep quiet and read.

No, Cullion, I'm asking you what you think a person should say on this thread to be okay by you. For some reason you seem to have latched onto my last glib little post as being so egregious, so significantly negative in some way, that it somehow has far-reaching implications about me. I don't really spend that much time thinking about you, but you obviously have built up a whole scenario in your head about me from posts on sociocide.

So, since you've obviously got all this on your mind, I want to know...what do you, the Sociocide ubermensch, want people to comment on this thread so that you'll approve of them?

If someone random person on the internet wants to claim that a drug dealer in fact supports the common person in the street, is that worthy to not offend your intellect? Is this sentiment the great intellectual breakthrough you want us to embrace? Is that really and truly less glib, less of an ideological position, or whatever you want to call it, than anything else you're likely to read on this forum that someone took a few seconds to post?

Cullion
31st May 10, 01:08 PM
Cool story bro.

Wounded Ronin
31st May 10, 01:11 PM
Cool story bro.

So basically you'll take the time to make denigrating comments about me based on casual glib posts on Sociocide and make up details about my life story and who I am, but when I ask you what kind of thing you'd rather see someone posting, you choose to not articulate anything.

I'm sorry, should I have not volunteered any information about my educational background? If you didn't have "Ivy League" floating around in your head, would you care less about my Sociocide posts? I mean, you don't seem to be as pre-occupied when anyone else makes a glib, ironic, casual, recreational, whatever post on this forum. For some reason you seem to have a problem with me doing that, and it's always going back to the "Ivy League" thing.

Cullion
31st May 10, 01:11 PM
Guess so.

Wounded Ronin
31st May 10, 01:18 PM
Guess so.

I notice you seem to spend a lot of time posting in this forum. You obviously put a lot of thought and time into it.

Now that I think about it, you probably just take posting here, and what is posted here, much more seriously than I do. I can't imagine why else you'd act so offended and dismissive.

EDIT: High scores are passe. Nowadays it's all about the body count.

Feryk
31st May 10, 01:40 PM
So, since you've obviously got all this on your mind, I want to know...what do you, the Sociocide ubermensch, want people to comment on this thread so that you'll approve of them?

1.) Start with the assumption that Cullion is smarter than you.

2.) Accept that he likes to argue, even past the point of absurdity.

3.) Realize that he is correct.

It's not really all that hard. Makes me wonder what all that tuition money was for.

Cullion
31st May 10, 05:51 PM
That's what I'm talking about.

Feryk
1st June 10, 04:23 PM
I think WR thinks I'm being sarcastic. He just hasn't had a dose of the verbal reality that is you.

Wounded Ronin
30th June 10, 09:06 AM
This morning I was reading The Economist and the drug lord has been caught. I don't have a link right now b/c I am typing this with a mobile device. The authorities were closing in so he tried to surrender to the American embassy through a pastor but the Jamaican government caught him sneaking across town wearing some wig and disguise. The Economist predicts more strife due to power vacum.