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Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
24th May 10, 11:43 AM
Education officials in the US state of Texas have adopted new guidelines to the school curriculum, which critics say will politicise teaching.

The changes include teaching that the UN could be a threat to American freedom, and that the Founding Fathers may not have intended a complete separation of church and state.

.........

And Thomas Jefferson has been dropped from a list of enlightenment thinkers in the world-history curriculum, despite being one of the Founding Fathers who is credited with developing the idea that church and state should be separate.

from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10141121.stm

Go team JESUS!!!!

Ajamil
24th May 10, 12:28 PM
Critics say the changes are ideological and distort history. However, proponents argue they are redressing a liberal bias in education.
What history lessons don't distort history? I guess my question is when do you start teaching/arguing the other side of the issue? High school? College?



Students in Texas will now be taught the benefits of US free-market economics and how government taxation can harm economic progress.
They will study how American ideals benefit the world but organisations such as the UN could be a threat to personal freedom.
Listening to Cullion and similar minded people, I'd say there some agreement with this. At least the harming personal freedoms part - not sure on "American ideals."



And Thomas Jefferson has been dropped from a list of enlightenment thinkers in the world-history curriculum, despite being one of the Founding Fathers who is credited with developing the idea that church and state should be separate.
The doctrine has become a cornerstone of US government, but some religious groups and some members of the Texas Education Board disagree, our correspondent says.
Wasn't the Enlightenment hundreds of years before Jefferson? Why is he being taught as an Enlightenment thinker? Now if they cut him from the Founding Fathers, there should be a problem. And the key words in the separation issue is "has become."





But during the discussions some of the most controversial ideas were dropped - including a proposal to refer to the slave trade as the "Atlantic triangular trade".OK that's a bit much. Fun with language!!


Opponents of the changes worry that textbooks sold in other states will be written to comply with the new Texas standards, meaning that the alterations could have an impact on curriculums nationwide.This I agree with. I don't mind one state or the other wanting to present a more right-wing view on history, but I worry when they can alter other states' curriculums simply because they're so big publishers will kowtow to them.


It's a nice warning, and it leads into the question of national schooling standards vs. states prerogative. I think things like history should have a lot more leeway in what individual states want to teach compared to something like math or writing.

Vieux Normand
24th May 10, 02:14 PM
Regarding intelligence, only one thing in life is certain: death in Texas.

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 02:23 PM
I've been following this. Long story short, some of the ultra-right types seem to think that the source of this country's ills are that we're not deeply enough in denial.

Part of me is inclined to say okay, let 'em teach their kids a bucket full of stupid. I actually believe in natural selection and tend to believe this will lead their ideology along the path to extinction. However, that textbooks nationwide will inevitably be rewritten to these standards because of the size of the Texas market means that their stupid becomes a threat to the nation at large.

I don't have a problem with right wing thought- the problem is there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of thought going into this, just an awful lot of ideological masturbation. I'd far rather a textbook be filled with the sociopathic pragmatism of Kissinger or Nixon than ultranationalism sugar coated as "American Exceptionalism."

Cullion
24th May 10, 02:27 PM
You don't have to use textbooks written 'to Texas standards' if you and the other parents are involved enough in your child's education to request the school use something else.

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 02:34 PM
Yes, but it's possible you would have to then use something a) not as good or b) more expensive because you'll be using a company that has opted out of one of the largest textbook markets in the country. They'll make up for that loss of income somehow.

Cullion
24th May 10, 02:39 PM
I'm sure you can find a way to get your kids the textbooks you think appropriate without falling for such an absurd liberal non-argument about why people in Texas shouldn't be allowed to educate their children the way they want.

'But if they are allowed to teach their kids this then by economy of scale I'll be forced to too!' is a pretty fucking silly opinion to be frank.

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 02:49 PM
Yep, it's silly- also largely accurate. And while parents should make time to be more involved in their kids education, I can understand being pissed that now you have to restructure your curriculum because some asshat in Texas decided to be a retard.

elipson
24th May 10, 03:03 PM
This is how extremism begins.

Cullion
24th May 10, 03:20 PM
Yep, it's silly- also largely accurate.

It's not even slightly accurate.



And while parents should make time to be more involved in their kids education, I can understand being pissed that now you have to restructure your curriculum because some asshat in Texas decided to be yla retard.

You're delusional. There's no way alternative text prices are going to increase as a component of the cost of your child's education enough to stop you having them taught the way you want.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 03:55 PM
You're delusional. There's no way alternative text prices are going to increase as a component of the cost of your child's education enough to stop you having them taught the way you want.
Yay home schooling! The option everyone has time and resources for.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 03:58 PM
They also want to teach Mccarthy is a pretty cool guy.

eh redbaits people for no reason and doesn't afraid of anything

EuropIan
24th May 10, 03:59 PM
Boo talking points memo..boooo
Wfdz7b8jNnc

Truculent Sheep
24th May 10, 04:07 PM
This is a very bad move. The extremists have taken hold and all kinds of utter bollocks is being peddled. Whether or not this shit will spread depends on whether other US states have the sense not to buy Texan schoolbooks. But it's still bad news for young Texans who have to put up with this revisionist, Trojan Horse nonsense by people who hold freedom, secularism and democracy in contempt. If you want some God-bothering arsehole ruining your children's education, just move to the Swat Valley and enrol them into a Madrasa. Don't do it in what's supposed to be a modern, advanced Western country with a strong academic tradition. (Even if K12 is pisspoor, all things considered.)

[/rant]

Cullion
24th May 10, 04:08 PM
Yay home schooling! The option everyone has time and resources for.

You're really think that every public school district in the US will automatically switch to textbooks designed for the Texan market over the objects of parents? That's nuts.

Any school administrator who claims that they can't use the non-texan textbooks because they're just too damn expensive will have to be brought before me. Right here.

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 04:23 PM
They're already written to Texas standards, among others. The schools would have to switch publishers to get away from books that meet Texas standards. The rest of the country could also adopt new standards that are more reasonable and don't try to excuse atrocities in American history, however, that would required a coordinated effort on the part of multiple states which isn't likely to work terribly well.

So, while you're right that the folks in Texas should be able to be as ignorant as they like, what this boils down to is the rest of the country saying "Hey, we're going to have to deal with a lot of bureaucracy, meetings and paperwork if we don't want to be subject to your asshattery, so seriously, fuck you, cut it out!"

jubei33
24th May 10, 04:23 PM
Yes, but it's possible you would have to then use something a) not as good or b) more expensive because you'll be using a company that has opted out of one of the largest textbook markets in the country. They'll make up for that loss of income somehow.

why would they buy books if they're hurting for money? library or bit torrent.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 04:24 PM
If Texas indirectly dictates which textbooks are bought and they are crazy, shouldn't this be a point for concern?

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 04:26 PM
why would they buy books if they're hurting for money? library or bit torrent.

LOL MIMEOGRAPH FTW!

Cullion
24th May 10, 04:27 PM
They're already written to Texas standards, among others. The schools would have to switch publishers to get away from books that meet Texas standards.

So? We're not exactly talking about a new mission to the moon here.



The rest of the country could also adopt new standards that are more reasonable and don't try to excuse atrocities in American history, however, that would required a coordinated effort on the part of multiple states which isn't likely to work terribly well.

It would require no such thing. Where did you get this weird idea ?

Cullion
24th May 10, 04:28 PM
If Texas indirectly dictates which textbooks are bought

They don't. It's a ridiculous strawman that doesn't stand up to a moment's thought.



and they are crazy, shouldn't this be a point for concern?

They are no crazier than the rest of the US.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 04:34 PM
Cullion, they tried to do this a couple of years back with evolution theory in biology textbooks. The increased furore attributed to Texas was exactly because of Texas' purchasing power and ability to indirectly dictate curriculums in other states.




They don't. It's a ridiculous strawman that doesn't stand up to a moment's thought.

Yes they do. If US textbook makers cater explicitly to Texas requirements. then which other books are they supposed to purchase. Imaginary books? Should they write their own books?



They are no crazier than the rest of the US.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Cullion
24th May 10, 04:41 PM
And you fell for the 'furore' last time, it's still a retarded liberal strawman.

Texas could mandate teaching the true Atlantean history of the white race in history and biology if they want, and rewrite their mathematics textbooks to use base-12 to represent the number of fingers a true human has, and the expense to other states not to use such textbooks would be negligible.

Hell they could even buy British textbooks :)

Homeschoolers use a huge range of 'alternate' curricula (from 'old time religion' hick textbooks all the way to much more sophisticated humanistic social science textbooks and advanced scientific curricula than are followed in the public system) and the cost of the textbooks, per child per year, relative to the textbook cost of the mainstream curriculum is not anything that should worry you.

Basically you've fallen for a form of propaganda which is trying to scare you with this proposition: 'If those hicks in Texas are allowed to teach their kids with a more religious, right wing slant I'm going to be forced to as well'. And it's absurd. It doesn't stand up to a moment's analysis.

Essentially they want you to adopt an extremely illiberal position regarding how other people choose to educate their children by the only argument they can think of, which is to make up something stupid about how those Texans are going to come marching up to New York and out to California and force it upon you. Because Non-texan textbooks will be so expensive that you'll have no choice. THEY'RE COMING RIGHT AT US! It's absurd.

You're being naive.

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 04:42 PM
It would require no such thing. Where did you get this weird idea ?

Because to overcome the economies of scale problem that you mentioned before, enough states would have to have close enough textbook guidelines that it made economic sense for publishers to tailor textbooks to meet them. The only reason anyone gives a shit what Texans think about school books is they buy a lot of them. California buys more, but they're not buying for another two years.

And yes, if every state came up with a set of hard-and-fast textbook guidelines then the publishers would have no choice but to publish separate editions for different states. Maybe that would be better, but in reality, that's not likely to happen. Instead, you'd at best get some liberal state like Massachusetts passing a set of guidelines, another state like Oregon or Washington passing a different set of guidelines, which don't match either MA or TX, and the publishers would say screw those two markets, who will end up buying alternative texts, while the rest of the country gets the books for Texas.

So yeah, Texas must sacrifice its freedom because the rest of us find it inconvenient. Normally I would find a statement like that abhorrent, but they're a bunch of psychopathic god-botherers, and not in an endearing Mel Gibson Sugar Tits kind of way. So fuck them.

Cullion
24th May 10, 04:47 PM
Because to overcome the economies of scale problem that you mentioned before, enough states would have to have close enough textbook guidelines that it made economic sense for publishers to tailor textbooks to meet them.

That's absurd, look at the huge range of homeschooler textbook prices online. They're just making this shit up. You're being scared into supporting an extraordinarily illiberal idea because you're too lazy to check fundamentally stupid propositions when presented as rhetorical strawmen.

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 04:48 PM
the expense to other states not to use such textbooks would be negligible.

Expense in money would be negligible. They just won't do it because of political or perhaps just bureaucratic inertia.


Hell they could even buy British textbooks :)

I know nothing of Brit textbooks and yet I'd be willing to take them sight unseen over some of the crap I had to deal with.

Cullion
24th May 10, 04:51 PM
Expense in money would be negligible. They just won't do it because of political or perhaps just bureaucratic inertia.

You've just won the thread for me. Kick them up the arse and stop telling Texans how to raise their kids just because some liberal journalist and some teaching union reps don't like it or non-Texans are too lazy to engage with their own school boards.

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 04:59 PM
That's absurd, look at the huge range of homeschooler textbook prices online. They're just making this shit up. You're being scared into supporting an extraordinarily illiberal idea because you're too lazy to check fundamentally stupid propositions when presented as rhetorical strawmen.

Oh I don't really care- I just like to yell about Texans because it's the closest thing to racism I can indulge in and still delude myself into believing I'm liberal. My psyche contains some very complex systems of denial which require periodic outbursts of ideologically motivated rage to relieve the pressure of massive cognitive dissonance.

Seriously though, you are correct that the rest of the country should get its shit together and say "Hey, just because Texas wants to teach something we disagree with that doesn't mean we have to- let's go pick different textbooks." But they won't. So instead of the schoolboards handling this like they should, a small group of political pissants are going to try to rain hell down on Texas to stop them from inadvertently influencing the rest of the country who will likely be too lazy to change the ISBN number on an order form.

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:01 PM
Well, then we're in perfect agreement.

EvilSteve
24th May 10, 05:06 PM
You me and Roger Ebert of all people.



I have a simple proposal. More enlightened states should refuse to play along. Their State Boards could require generally-accepted educational standards, and vote against purchasing the corrupted Texas texts. This would have the result of limiting the influence of the Texas religious right over the rest of the country. And it would allow publishers to cling to a certain degree of self-respect.

He actually has an interesting article on the subject:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/04/the_texas_school_book_reposito.html

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:08 PM
You mean 'we'll teach our kids what we think is right, and Texas can do it it's own way' ? Imagine that!

I'll note that nobody in the thread has offered a real critique of what the Texans actually want to teach their children.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:09 PM
It's a shame for those Texan kids though.

But they probably deserve it, being Texan and all.

:)

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:12 PM
What's a shame for them?

You have actually studied the proposed changes, right ?

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:13 PM
I'll note that nobody in the thread has offered a real critique of what the Texans actually want to teach their children.
I disagree with the whitewashing of American history (japanese internment camps, Mccarthy was a pretty cool guy, eh redba....), the twisting of the narrative for pure poltical and idelogical points (Americuh is a Christian nation, screw what the F-Fathers said) and inheirant racism (minorities should be grateful of the rights granted to them by the glorious white folk).

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:14 PM
Give real examples, not pre-digested talking points.

Give me examples of the factually incorrect.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:25 PM
Google Don Mcleroy

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:27 PM
You google it.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:30 PM
I already did. Just be sure everything he says is wrong and he has a disproportionate amount of power.

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:31 PM
Well, make more effort at arguing a point than just saying 'google a guy's name' then. What do you think we pay you for around here?

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:39 PM
You don't.

Anyway here's a little video because I hate writing and copy&paste

dFnmMr5AO00

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:40 PM
VOVMYhupV78

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:42 PM
Don Mcleroy was also at the charge vis a vis the evolution thing.

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:42 PM
I'm not sure what's supposed to be scary about anything in that first video.

As for the second vid, well International treaties do often undermine national sovereignty. If the person who published the video thought that was a self-evidently false proposition that could be sniggered at, then they're an idiot.

I don't care if Christians want to teach their kids about creationism, neither should you.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:46 PM
Contrast with "U.S. expansionism"

I'm pretty sure you understand what it takes to push a narrative.

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:49 PM
Contrast with "U.S. expansionism"

I'm pretty sure you understand what it takes to push a narrative.

Yes, and the original word pushed a narrative too. It just happens to be one that you agree with.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:52 PM
Don't get all post modern on me, I have th3 Re4l discourse

EuropIan
24th May 10, 05:54 PM
P.S. tangential: this is the kind of stuff that perpetuates the myth of the US winning WW2 single handedly.

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:55 PM
Don't get all post modern on me, I have th3 Re4l discourse

No you don't. You came at this with a bunch of unexamined knee-jerk liberal reactions to old white men from the south who believe in God and now you've been made to debate for real you've come up pretty much empty.

And that's how easy it is to dismantle most liberal propaganda, folks.

Cullion
24th May 10, 05:57 PM
P.S. tangential: this is the kind of stuff that perpetuates the myth of the US winning WW2 single handedly.

Lots of Americans already believe that after decades of unionised, department of education sanctioned schooling. I wouldn't worry too much if I were you.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 06:02 PM
No you don't. You came at this with a bunch of unexamined knee-jerk liberal reactions to old white men from the south who believe in God and now you've been made to debate for real you've come up pretty much empty.

And that's how easy it is to dismantle most liberal propaganda, folks.
Um no..


All you did was say "lol liberals" and then furiously beat of the sound of yourself typing.



Basically what you're saying is "well they can't be that bad" and "that's not true" without any way of saying why it isn't.


And you've never met Southerners in all their racist redbaiting glory.

Lots of Americans already believe that after decades of unionised, department of education sanctioned schooling. I wouldn't worry too much if I were you.

Oh I get it, this is so you can score more points on message boards in the future.

"Fuck da truth, I gotta lay some smackdown."

Cullion
24th May 10, 06:06 PM
Ian, you're talking nonsense. First you bought into the absurd idea that Texans were going to spread evil non-PC mind poison throughout the country through economy of scale in textbook production, and now you're holding up videos of people changing the word 'imperialism' to 'expansionism' as an example of some kind of incipient fascism.

You haven't shown anything factually incorrect in the proposed changes. Your argument is quite ridiculous from start to finish. Except it's not really your argument of course, and now you feel silly about it.

You can try to beat off repeating stupid liberal propaganda you haven't analysed for a split second if you want, but you're always going to get called on it.

Here's the intellectually honest answer you were looking for:-


Oh I don't really care- I just like to yell about Texans because it's the closest thing to racism I can indulge in and still delude myself into believing I'm liberal. My psyche contains some very complex systems of denial which require periodic outbursts of ideologically motivated rage to relieve the pressure of massive cognitive dissonance.

Hedley LaMarr
24th May 10, 06:32 PM
This article doesn't show the problems with Texas education (which, in my opinion, there are many). This shows the problem with the American Textbook industry.

http://www.edutopia.org/muddle-machine

This is a link to an article about how the textbook industry works. In short, it makes no sense at all. Basically three big states (Texas, California and Florida) are the "adoption states" and have a combined 13 million students in K-12. That's a humongous chunk of the students in America. Due to the fact that major publishers ate up most of their competition in the 80s and 90s, they are the only real producers of textbooks for schools in America. And because the big companies (Prentice, McGraw Hill, etc..) get contracts with the big states, when the other 47 states go to buy books it is relatively cheaper to buy the same ones the big 3 are buying as opposed to contracting out their own books.

The publishing companies then proceed to make over PC-ed expensive shits they pass off as textbooks.

This of course doesn't make sense to outsiders because it makes no sense to begin with. To take my state of Wisconsin as an example, there are probably hundreds of publishing companies in this state that could produce textbooks at a much lower cost. In school it was usually quoted that are textbooks were worth $40-100 dollar a book, which is absurd. They could buy "The Idiot's Guide to Chemistry" for like 15 bucks, and you'd probably have a better textbook to boot.

I'm going to take this time to just say how terrible American textbooks are. There are hundreds of pages of useless dribble that don't help kids learn. There are benefits to the McGraw Hill textbooks, such as teachers aids and worksheets, but they are not worth the extra price.

This is actually a pet issue of mine, and am trying to fix textbooks in Wisconsin. My feeling is it would make far more sense to contract out the job of making textbook to the wonderful professors throughout the University of Wisconsin system. They could write great textbooks and then have them published by local publishers. It would provide jobs for Wisconsin AND get as cheaper textbooks, probably saving us money. Heck, other states might start buying our textbooks to get out of the trap of the big 3 and then we'd turn a profit.

TL;DR: the textbook industry in America is a piece of shit.

Cullion
24th May 10, 06:33 PM
You don't have to use it.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 06:38 PM
Ian, you're talking nonsense. First you bought into the absurd idea that Texans were going to spread evil non-PC mind poison throughout the country through economy of scale in textbook production,

It's a shame for Texas and potentially a shame for other States as well wheter or not they chose from the myriad of textbooks catered to Texas standards out of either laziness of ignorance. It is true that other boards of education could just go their own way and nowadays, with the advent of cheaper easily edited online textbooks, it is entirely possible it wont affect the rest of the nation and that's a good thing. However, with the way the US public education system the way it is. Such positive outcomes seem less likely.



and now your holding up videos of people changing the word 'imperialism' to 'expansionism' as an example of some kind of incipient fascism.

You haven't shown anything factually incorrect. Your argument is quite ridiculous.

You can try to beat off repeating stupid liberal propaganda you haven't analysed for a split second if you want, but you're always going to get called on it.
I disagree with the concept of American exceptionalism because of the facist undertones latched on to it during the era of the red scare. So, yes, I am ideologically opposed to the ideology they are pushing, because I view it as ignorant.

In addition the downplaying and outright whitewashing of history under the guise of preserving America's image is akin to the Japanese revisionist history programs. And are equally as appalling.

Then there are just silly and inherently racist revisions such as omitting Hip-Hop as and influential music genre.

Now, you I do agree that people have the right to be idiots but I think it's hard to make an argument that people are allowed to be idiots on the public dime.

The reason I can make knee-jerk reactions to the narrative spun by this board of education is that it is the exact same board of young earth creationists who did the pulled the same stunt a few years back. trying to appeal for moderation by saying "well, they can't be that bad" is essentially stupid because, yes, it is that bad.

Cullion
24th May 10, 06:41 PM
There's nothing fascistic about American exceptionalism within a strict constitutional framework.

They're not removing hip hop because of racism, you're chasing phantasms. They're omitting hip hop because they consider it a crude form of low art in exactly the same way lots of black political leaders have come to see it.


I disagree with the concept of American exceptionalism because of the facist undertones latched on to it during the era of the red scare.

They had every reason to be afraid of the reds. There was substantial communist infiltration into US society at the time.

You're just deeply offended that they don't want to teach their kids to hate their own traditions and country, because they don't want their children to end up like you and HoG.

This left wing self-hating nonsense is eating your soul. When was the last time you really boned a woman Ian? When was the last time you did that and didn't secretly wish that she was boning you?

EuropIan
24th May 10, 07:05 PM
There's nothing fascistic about American exceptionalism within a strict constitutional framework.

That's true.
That's not what they mean, though.



They're not removing hip hop because of racism, you're chasing phantasms. They're omitting hip hop because they consider it a crude form of low art in exactly the same way lots of black political leaders have come to see it.


It racism, it's Texas.



They had every reason to be afraid of the reds. There was substantial communist infiltration into US society at the time.

And that completely justifies Mcarthy..got it.

Ajamil
24th May 10, 07:23 PM
Actual things in the curriculum I don't like? My first post was against the uproar towards Texas doing this - other than the system that lets one state pretty much dictate what other states are teaching.

I was glad they decided to omit changing the slave trade to the "atlantic trade triangle," and I would think any mention of international treaties could be just as easily taught through a study of the Federalist papers, with small reference to expand into international ideas such as the UN. The whole point of those papers was to determine whether a distant, central power can control local govts. weren't they?

For one example - The New Deal - Social Studies in my day taught that it was nothing but good. You could almost liken it to manna from heaven, and I was quite surprised when I started hearing people bad mouth the effects. I'd kind of like a child of mine to know that there are those who see negative aspects to what happened. This could also have the "govt. taxes can harm economic progress" fall under it. There are certainly enough people running around that think govt. should do everything and just tax the rich when they run out of money that an opposing view discussed in the classroom would be nice.

I agree that removing talks about third party candidates would be very harmful. It leads to the idea that how things are is how they should be.

The hip-hop and multiculturalism being removed is silly. Hip-hop has become seriously low-brow these days, but it was an important expression and tool for community organization and voice in its early years.

As long as the facts are the same, I see no problem with changing American Imperialism to American Expansionism - as long as every other nation is allowed to call it that as well. I was taught about the Age of Imperialism, and how the US along with many other nations were in a scramble to get footholds around the world. I would definitely call foul if they teach about American expansion at the same time the British were building their empire, though.

I thought it funny the board member wanted more US exceptionalism, then gave as one example a day celebrating a European explorer.

Removing Justice Marshall would be insane, as would adding in Christian theologians under the heading of important US influences. Even if they are influences, they're a part of Christian history, not US history.

I think adding McCarthy to the curriculum would be great - and very ontopic for today's fears. Going into security vs. freedom and dealing with the facts and the reaction to those facts - both then and now - might give people a better perspective on things like the Patriot Act and terrorist scares.

It was such a huge moment in our history, I wouldn't mind seeing some debate as to whether the South should have seceded, including a comparison between the Lincoln's and Davies' inaugural addresses.

I really don't understand the idea that the UN will dissolve US sovereignty. We joined the UN for certain benefits, and that comes with meeting the UN's stipulations. Were we forced to sign any treaties? If it gets that bad, can't we just leave the UN? That'd be some serious international stirring, but it'd be worth if we feel the UN is seriously hampering our US ideals. Perhaps this can be discussed further in a "UN explained" thread? It just sounds to me like now that the UN isn't a convenient way for the US to have a lot of other nations back up their decisions, they don't like it anymore.

BTW, I think I got UN and EU confused in my first post, sorry bout that.

Truculent Sheep
24th May 10, 07:44 PM
They had every reason to be afraid of the reds. There was substantial communist infiltration into US society at the time.

There's always been substantial infiltration of one sort or another in every nation and during every conflict. You're referring to a state of affairs that dates back to the Bronze Age. There was doubtless similar levels of infiltration in the Soviet Union by Western agents.

Indeed, don't forget that in Stalin's last years, there were all manner of show trials of supposed and actual subversives and spies. McCarthy was an opportunistic demagogue and drunken thug, and his legacy still blights US political discourse to this day.


You're just deeply offended that they don't want to teach their kids to hate their own traditions and country, because they don't want their children to end up like you and HoG.

No, they just don't approve of children being told bare-faced lies and far right propaganda. Irony upon ironies, revisionism was once a tool of the radical left. Now it has become a weapon for the radical right. All hail the horseshoe.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 07:57 PM
I think adding McCarthy to the curriculum would be great - and very ontopic for today's fears. Going into security vs. freedom and dealing with the facts and the reaction to those facts - both then and now - might give people a better perspective on things like the Patriot Act and terrorist scares.


That's not what it's about. It's about exonerating McCarthy.

Ajamil
24th May 10, 08:05 PM
I haven't seen the exact lesson. Are you saying it just says, "See? McCarhty was right!" rather than what I was taught which was, "Look at how terrible this man was!!" It's trading one opinion for the opposite one. I don't much like either, which is why I said show the facts and the reactions then and now.

EuropIan
24th May 10, 08:12 PM
Mcleroy's notes:
http://tfnblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/mcleroy-mccarthy1.jpg

I would like to know what his "latest" was.


Contrast:

Po5GlFba5Yg

PTwDUpbQHJg

Hedley LaMarr
24th May 10, 08:33 PM
I haven't seen the exact lesson. Are you saying it just says, "See? McCarhty was right!" rather than what I was taught which was, "Look at how terrible this man was!!" It's trading one opinion for the opposite one. I don't much like either, which is why I said show the facts and the reactions then and now.
McCarthy was a liar, an opportunist and a narcissist. Just like everyone on the Hill. He made the dumb mistake of telling lies too big to gloss over.

WarPhalange
24th May 10, 10:25 PM
Lots of Americans already believe that after decades of unionised, department of education sanctioned schooling. I wouldn't worry too much if I were you.

Now you're just trolling. You have no idea what is taught in US schools and should thus shut the fuck up. For one, they always said WW2 started with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and pretty much ignored everything prior to that. Ignored the fact that the US did business with Hitler before deciding he was a bad man. Shit like that.

Secondly, I do care about what Texans teach their children. I don't want a bunch of retards in positions of power. I can't single-handedly fight them all off. If they grow up thinking the US is God's gift to the world and we've never been wrong, then your children will have a hell of a future.

HappyOldGuy
24th May 10, 11:08 PM
Now you're just trolling. You have no idea what is taught in US schools and should thus shut the fuck up.

This

and fuck Texas.

Ajamil
24th May 10, 11:41 PM
Speaking of which. I've been watching The Pacific - what other countries took part in that side of WW2? Australia was over there certainly, and I bet Russia and China had a number of battles. India? Any European nations send troops to battle Japan? I would think they had their hands full.


For one, they always said WW2 started with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and pretty much ignored everything prior to that. Ignored the fact that the US did business with Hitler before deciding he was a bad man. Shit like that.What school system did you go through that they ignored this? I've been in some of the worst and these items were taught to us.

Kein Haar
25th May 10, 12:20 AM
What school system did you go through that they ignored this?

Poland.

HappyOldGuy
25th May 10, 12:22 AM
Speaking of which. I've been watching The Pacific - what other countries took part in that side of WW2? Australia was over there certainly, and I bet Russia and China had a number of battles. India? Any European nations send troops to battle Japan? I would think they had their hands full.

What school system did you go through that they ignored this? I've been in some of the worst and these items were taught to us.
China was conquered by Japan before Japan started playing with the Europeans. India was still an English colony, and Indian (and other commonwealth) troops certainly fought (Japan invaded part of India). Russia and China fought in Manchuria, but not until after the war in Europe was over. Even though it was short it was very decisive. Most of the European powers had colonies in the pacific theater, but most were conquered by the Japanese without big battles.

So short answer, pretty much everybody had a piece of it, but the US had by far the biggest.

Cullion
25th May 10, 03:51 AM
Now you're just trolling. You have no idea what is taught in US schools and should thus shut the fuck up. For one, they always said WW2 started with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and pretty much ignored everything prior to that. Ignored the fact that the US did business with Hitler before deciding he was a bad man. Shit like that.

Secondly, I do care about what Texans teach their children. I don't want a bunch of retards in positions of power. I can't single-handedly fight them all off. If they grow up thinking the US is God's gift to the world and we've never been wrong, then your children will have a hell of a future.

Lots of Americans do believe that the US pretty much won WWII single handed. You can thank Hollywood.

Cullion
25th May 10, 03:52 AM
No, they just don't approve of children being told bare-faced lies and far right propaganda. Irony upon ironies, revisionism was once a tool of the radical left. Now it has become a weapon for the radical right. All hail the horseshoe.

Are you saying you've found a factual error in any of the proposed new textbooks ?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
25th May 10, 03:55 AM
China was conquered by Japan before Japan started playing with the Europeans.

I thought Japan never fully conquered China?

Cullion
25th May 10, 03:57 AM
That's true.
That's not what they mean, though.

How do you know ? I think you're just making up their opinions for them in your head.



It racism, it's Texas.

Dude, Beyonce is from Texas.




And that completely justifies Mcarthy..got it.

Yes. If Joe had been allowed to finish the job then America wouldn't be full of communist dupes like HOG today.

Cullion
25th May 10, 04:00 AM
You have no idea what is taught in US schools and should thus shut the fuck up.

I know what's taught in US schools from talking to countless Americans. I think you should shut the fuck up.



For one, they always said WW2 started with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and pretty much ignored everything prior to that. Ignored the fact that the US did business with Hitler before deciding he was a bad man. Shit like that.

Oh so you agree that US education already doesn't teach the truth about WWII?
You just saw 'non-liberals from the south!!!' and saw red without thinking for a second, just like the other libertards in this thread. If you hate America so much, why don't you go back to Poland ?



Secondly, I do care about what Texans teach their children. I don't want a bunch of retards in positions of power. I can't single-handedly fight them all off. If they grow up thinking the US is God's gift to the world and we've never been wrong, then your children will have a hell of a future.

It's none of your business what Texans teach their children. You already have a bunch of retards in positions of power.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
25th May 10, 04:07 AM
Cullion is trolling you fags but he's making salient points.


It's none of your business what Texans teach their children.

This is 100% true, Texans can do whatever the fuck they want. I'll cry foul when they decide not to mention the entire civil rights movement or claim that George Washington founded America on a holy mandate from God after defeating England's armies with Britbane, the ancient sword that had slain Boudecia. But I'm not going to sit here and bitch that they're not interpreting the facts in a liberal enough way for me.

Truculent Sheep
25th May 10, 06:04 AM
Are you saying you've found a factual error in any of the proposed new textbooks ?

Does shit have flies buzzing around it?


This is 100% true, Texans can do whatever the fuck they want. I'll cry foul when they decide not to mention the entire civil rights movement or claim that George Washington founded America on a holy mandate from God after defeating England's armies with Britbane, the ancient sword that had slain Boudecia. But I'm not going to sit here and bitch that they're not interpreting the facts in a liberal enough way for me.

But that's the point - they're insinuating rather than stating, implying rather than indicating and manipulating when they're meant to be educating. And since Texas firstly has a lot of future adults, voters and political leaders in its classrooms, and - unless someone actually does something - its choices tend to effect the rest of your nation's curricula, then yes, you should be crying foul.

Kein Haar
25th May 10, 06:13 AM
At this point, whatever can spite the Bay Arya is fine with me.

The nice thing about my parents, and in turn, my own parenting, is when I mentioned something from school which was retarded, my parents would go: "lol...no."

So, if this makes public school kids more retarded, that's just gonna make mine that much more cutting edge.

See, Bay Arya kids are CURRENTLY all like George Washington deforested cherry orchards and was actually gay and black, Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Junior was also actually gay, and not that the most capitalistic blondest germans in all of germania made California what it is today, but rather gay mexicans.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
25th May 10, 06:21 AM
But that's the point - they're insinuating rather than stating, implying rather than indicating and manipulating when they're meant to be educating. And since Texas firstly has a lot of future adults, voters and political leaders in its classrooms, and - unless someone actually does something - its choices tend to effect the rest of your nation's curricula, then yes, you should be crying foul.

What would an unslanted history book look like? Every event you choose to add or omit slants the book.

Cullion
25th May 10, 07:03 AM
Does shit have flies buzzing around it?

So that's a 'I've no idea, but as they're right wingers from Texas I'm going to rant anyway' then.



But that's the point - they're insinuating rather than stating, implying rather than indicating and manipulating when they're meant to be educating. And since Texas firstly has a lot of future adults, voters and political leaders in its classrooms, and - unless someone actually does something - its choices tend to effect the rest of your nation's curricula, then yes, you should be crying foul.

The existing textbooks already do what you're suggesting, it's just you agree with the prejudice. The salient point here is that these aren't your kids. You bring yours up how you like.

Vieux Normand
25th May 10, 08:25 AM
Dude, Beyonce is from Texas.

...which explains her 'lookin'-white-as-can-be' schtick.

Cullion
25th May 10, 08:32 AM
Lil' Kim is from New York and she did it even better.

EvilSteve
25th May 10, 08:47 AM
And here I thought this was settled when I went home last night...

While I think it's unreasonable to say that Texans have a RIGHT to teach their kids what they want and if others don't like that it creeps into their textbooks then they should organize their own educational standards, defending WHAT they are planning on teaching their kids is another matter entirely.

There seems to be an idea in the former slave states that introspection is a weakness and it is better not to look too far into anything that might sow doubt. The Butler Act- the law which made it illegal to teach evolution in Tennessee was enacted not because the author necessarily thought it was wrong, but that the theory itself was too troubling and in the wake of WWI, people needed stability.

You can still see this in action today- George W Bush was lauded by his supporters when he publicly declared that he was not an introspective person. Well, we see how well his presidency has turned out. Now, conservatism as a political ideology has received the worst electoral drubbing of any party in my lifetime and a lot of people really believe that it's because those damn liberals brainwashed our kids (their point of view) or we did not refuse to admit our failures hard enough (my point of view, and probably that of most people reading this).

And while it's a weak argument to say that this should be stopped because Texas produces a lot of political leaders (if they're that stupid, people should be smart enough not to vote for them), to defend minimizing or cutting Jefferson out of textbooks because he wanted a separation of church and state is just silly.

But above all the problem with teaching American Exceptionalism is this: I can view what the United States has done, both benevolent and malevolent and still see that it can be a force for the betterment of the world BECAUSE I view the whole picture. Hiding behind a whitewashed view of history shows a degree of intellectual and moral weakness that can only serve to hinder our ability as a nation to do better for ourselves and others.

EuropIan
25th May 10, 09:30 AM
How do you know ? I think you're just making up their opinions for them in your head.

Is ignoring the first amendment a strict constitutional framework?


My rage isn't pointed at some vague idea of southern conservatives, these guys are your true to life "Christian Nation", "capitalism good social programs bad", flat earth creationist bullpucky spouters.


Dude, Beyonce is from Texas. Texas has a black friend




Yes. If Joe had been allowed to finish the job then America wouldn't be full of communist dupes like HOG today.
yes, he would have been in an internment camp

Cullion
25th May 10, 09:35 AM
Is ignoring the first amendment a strict constitutional framework?

Nobody's ignoring the first amendment, they're just saying something you disagree with.



My rage isn't pointed at some vague idea of southern conservatives, these guys are your true to life "Christian Nation", "capitalism good social programs bad", flat earth creationist bullpucky spouters.

Your crude characterisation of people you've never met wanting more control over what their children are taught just marks you out as a bigot.



yes, he would have been in an internment camp

Sometimes, responsible governments simply have to make tough choices, for the wider good.

EuropIan
25th May 10, 09:46 AM
Nobody's ignoring the first amendment, they're just saying something you disagree with.

Yes, America is a Christian theocracy.



Your crude characterisation of people you've never met wanting more control over what their children are taught just marks you out as a bigot..
I am bigoted towards Don Mcleroy



Sometimes, responsible governments simply have to make tough choices, for the wider good.
Communist!

Cullion
25th May 10, 09:49 AM
They're not saying that America is a Christian theocracy. They're saying that the interpretation of separation of church and state envisioned by modern secular liberals is suppressing their religious freedom.

EuropIan
25th May 10, 10:00 AM
Which is why they're excluding Thomas Jefferson who said the exact opposite.

Cullion
25th May 10, 10:02 AM
They aren't excluding Jefferson, they're simply not claiming that he's an Enlightenment thinker. You really think that the new history books won't discuss Jefferson when discussing the constitution?

You're just making this stuff up.

EuropIan
25th May 10, 10:06 AM
No you are making shit up.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
25th May 10, 10:09 AM
So far I think Cullion believes that being contrary is the same as being intelligent.

Cullion
25th May 10, 10:09 AM
Show me the American constitutional textbook of theirs that excludes mention of Jefferson.

EuropIan
25th May 10, 10:10 AM
That's a bullshit demand.

Cullion
25th May 10, 10:12 AM
It's totally reasonable. You've somehow jumped from 'they don't call Jefferson an enlightenment thinker' to 'they're going to remove mention of him in reference to the constitution!'. If you can't provide evidence for that leap, then you're just making it up.

EuropIan
25th May 10, 11:03 AM
No you're demanding excerpt from a book that's not in writing yet.

In addition after catching a great deal of flak they decided to reinclude Jefferson.

Cullion
25th May 10, 11:04 AM
I think you pick half this shit up from some weird liberal version of longwave radio.

EuropIan
25th May 10, 11:05 AM
My tinfoil hat is mighty

EuropIan
25th May 10, 11:09 AM
They also wanted to include Ross Perot as a historio-political figure.

Then they deleted it because they were told it was dumb.

And Harriet Tubman was deleted

EuropIan
25th May 10, 11:12 AM
And yes I have source of that

Cullion
25th May 10, 11:28 AM
They also wanted to include Ross Perot as a historio-political figure.

Then they deleted it because they were told it was dumb.

Holy shit, you mean they debated ideas and decided to drop some because they turned out to be bad ideas ? Fucking Nazis.



And Harriet Tubman was deleted

Good.

Truculent Sheep
25th May 10, 02:54 PM
So that's a 'I've no idea, but as they're right wingers from Texas I'm going to rant anyway' then.

LiP0j-LHv88


The existing textbooks already do what you're suggesting, it's just you agree with the prejudice. The salient point here is that these aren't your kids. You bring yours up how you like.

Quite the opposite. A fair few American history majors complain about the shit they're fed at K12 level, it's just that the Republic-of-Gilead brigade will make this much, much worse.

Truculent Sheep
25th May 10, 02:56 PM
What would an unslanted history book look like? Every event you choose to add or omit slants the book.

Only if you're being cynical.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
25th May 10, 04:01 PM
Is it not liberal to bother to mention how much of a dick Columbus was?

Ajamil
25th May 10, 04:17 PM
The nice thing about my parents, and in turn, my own parenting, is when I mentioned something from school which was retarded, my parents would go: "lol...no."

So, if this makes public school kids more retarded, that's just gonna make mine that much more cutting edge.This is bad people. Kein Haar is making more sense than most of us. Involvement in our kids' education? Preposterous - that's why I send them to school.

And though she is my female role model pick, I think Harriet Tubman should be mentioned in K-12 History as much as Tecumseh and Al Capone. As in a single sentence to incite kids to read more somewhere else if interested - a noteworthy name given as an example of an overall larger part of US history.

Truculent Sheep
25th May 10, 04:19 PM
Is it not liberal to bother to mention how much of a dick Columbus was?

No, it's stating a fact.

Cullion
25th May 10, 04:38 PM
It's the other side of the coin from the fucktards in the UK who wanted Al Gore's horseshit video on global tornado disaster showing to schoolkids as un-questioned fact.

It's a matter of letting parents have the final say and being okay with the idea that other people want different things for their kids than you might for yours.

HappyOldGuy
25th May 10, 08:30 PM
What would an unslanted history book look like? Every event you choose to add or omit slants the book.

You're falling for the Faux news argument. The fact that some bias is inevitable no matter how objective you try to be does not justify intentional manipulation.

lant3rn
25th May 10, 11:16 PM
Cullion, when do these relgiopolitical changes in education curriculum change from trivial to disingenuous.

The texas board of education isn't making these changes in order to make the books more factual, there just ramming their idealogical vendetta down the states childrens throats.

WarPhalange
25th May 10, 11:58 PM
Has Cullion always been this batshit insane? I seem to remember him being more level-headed and not throwing around "liberal" like it was an insult.

HappyOldGuy
26th May 10, 12:06 AM
He's trolling.

He probably just found out that Budweiser just bought his favorite local brewer.

danno
26th May 10, 12:25 AM
i wish i could go into the future to see what america will look like 150 years from now.

HappyOldGuy
26th May 10, 12:26 AM
i wish i could go into the future to see what america will look like 150 years from now.

Glances at dannos avatar.

resolve
26th May 10, 12:40 AM
If danno was really the troll account of Mel Gibson, it would be just too perfect.

danno
26th May 10, 12:57 AM
you've got it the wrong way around.

mel gibson is MY troll account.

Cullion
26th May 10, 02:42 AM
Cullion, when do these relgiopolitical changes in education curriculum change from trivial to disingenuous.

The texas board of education isn't making these changes in order to make the books more factual, there just ramming their idealogical vendetta down the states childrens throats.

This is what people don't understand. You've already had an ideological vendetta rammed down your throat, it's just so ubiquitous that you think it's objective reality.

Secondly, they aren't your children.

Cullion
26th May 10, 02:43 AM
You're falling for the Faux news argument. The fact that some bias is inevitable no matter how objective you try to be does not justify intentional manipulation.

Because liberals never do that.

Except, y'know, for all those times I've pointed out where they have.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th May 10, 03:44 AM
Secondly, they aren't your children.

If they were your children would you still be OK about it?

Cullion
26th May 10, 03:48 AM
If I lived in Texas my children would be in private school.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th May 10, 03:49 AM
Way to avoid the point.

Cullion
26th May 10, 04:24 AM
I'm not avoiding the point at all. I wouldn't want to send my children to an Islamic state-funded school in the UK either. I send my children to a Church of England run free school here. In Texas I'd probably go private.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th May 10, 05:02 AM
In Texas I'd probably go private.

Because you dont agree with Texas' education pollicy?

Cullion
26th May 10, 05:11 AM
Not this right wing slant specifically.

Kein Haar
26th May 10, 06:45 AM
He's trolling.

He probably just found out that Budweiser just bought his favorite local brewer.

The Belgians own budweiser now.

Truculent Sheep
26th May 10, 11:32 AM
It's the other side of the coin from the fucktards in the UK who wanted Al Gore's horseshit video on global tornado disaster showing to schoolkids as un-questioned fact.

That 'documentary' was full of shit too. I'm not arguing for the 'right' kind of distortion either here.


It's a matter of letting parents have the final say and being okay with the idea that other people want different things for their kids than you might for yours.

Insofar as it does no harm to the child, no reasonable person would have a problem with this. But what's going on in Texas is profoundly ominous.

lant3rn
26th May 10, 11:43 AM
Not this right wing slant specifically.

So you agree with me...

I know edjucation can already be objectionally bias. In my opinion it's a great diservice to the kids that people continue to take steps in the wrong direction

WarPhalange
26th May 10, 12:29 PM
Secondly, they aren't your children.

So if you see a kid getting abused by his parents, you'll just play this card and walk away? Because that's exactly what is happening here.

Kein Haar
26th May 10, 04:47 PM
Peculiar book choices for public schools is certainly one kind of child abuse.

The other is what my brother in laws ex wife's son from another marriage's girlfriend did...and that's not feed her child for a week.

Or extension chord impressions in the skin...

Fuck it.

Hitler.

Nazis.

Win.

Cullion
26th May 10, 05:41 PM
So if you see a kid getting abused by his parents, you'll just play this card and walk away? Because that's exactly what is happening here.

No it's not. Not even a little bit. I would've thought that you of all people would
know what child abuse really is.

Cullion
26th May 10, 05:44 PM
So you agree with me...


No I don't, because I wouldn't try and stop other Texans from educating their children that way. Most people here think that whatever they think is best for their children needs to be government policy with no deviations.

I'm just not that stupid or hysterical.

lant3rn
26th May 10, 06:25 PM
No I don't, because I wouldn't try and stop other Texans from educating their children that way. Most people here think that whatever they think is best for their children needs to be government policy with no deviations.

I'm just not that stupid or hysterical.

I don't know where you got the idea that i thought that aswell

Project much?

Were not all hypocrites cullion. I just want to have an education where they try tp present facts in a neutral context and let the children try to make their own inferences. Is that too much to ask?

Cullion
26th May 10, 06:35 PM
I don't know where you got the idea that i thought that aswell

Because you've already judged that these children will be educated less well than in the prior curriculum.



Were not all hypocrites cullion. I just want to have an education where they try tp present facts in a neutral context and let the children try to make their own inferences. Is that too much to ask?

I've rarely seen it happen. Most people mistake neutrality for 'fits own prejudices'.

EuropIan
26th May 10, 06:48 PM
Don't worry, they can still make it into Bob Jones University.

In fact, they'll do well there.

Cullion
26th May 10, 06:48 PM
Better than you, probably.

EuropIan
26th May 10, 06:49 PM
At Bob Jones? Certainly.

Spade: The Real Snake
26th May 10, 06:49 PM
That would make Ian cut his lovely ladylike locks

EuropIan
26th May 10, 06:50 PM
Jesus had long hair.

Cullion
26th May 10, 06:51 PM
They'll probably be just as likely to get into Harvard or win spelling bees and mathematics competitions as they were before.

Spade: The Real Snake
26th May 10, 06:56 PM
Jesus had long hair.
He could pull it off.
You can't walk on water or wear a robe and sandles in winter.

Cullion
26th May 10, 07:01 PM
At Bob Jones? Certainly.

Bob Jones would've been perfect for you. It's exactly what you needed.

HappyOldGuy
26th May 10, 08:49 PM
Peculiar book choices for public schools is certainly one kind of child abuse.

Someone has never read a Gor novel.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
26th June 10, 05:00 AM
http://static.texastribune.org/media/documents/FINAL_2010_STATE_REPUBLICAN_PARTY_PLATFORM.pdf

The platform not only condemns the UN and calls for them to be booted out of the country, it also calls for the re-criminalization of sodomy and same-sex marriage, cut bilingual education after 4 years in American public schools, end the state lottery and federal sponsorship of preschools, and teach evolution as a "challengeable" scientific theory.


PRINCIPLES
We Believe in:
1. Strict adherence to the Declaration of Independence and U.S. and Texas Constitutions.
2. Preserving American Freedom and .
3. Limiting the expanse of Government Power.
4. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to
natural death.
5. Personal Accountability and Responsibility.
6. Self-sufficient families, [b]founded on the traditional marriage of a natural man and a natural woman.
7. Having an educated population, with parents having the freedom of choice for the education of their
children.
8. Americans having the right to be safe in their homes, on their streets, and in their communities, and the
unalienable right to defend themselves.
9. A free enterprise society unencumbered by government interference or subsidies.
10. Restoring American sovereignty and leadership, and we honor all of those that serve and protect our
freedom with peace through strength.


Preserving National Security – We believe terrorism is the greatest threat to international peace and to our safety. We
urge our national leadership to protect our Constitutional rights and swiftly wage successful war on terrorists; to eliminate
aid to any nation threatening us or aiding terrorists or hostile nations; to spell out consequences for terrorist activities and
to publicly support other nations fighting terrorists; to reasonably use profiling to protect us; to prosecute national security
breaches; and to revise laws or executive orders that erode our essential liberties.


Preservation of Republican Form of Government – We support our republican form of government in Texas as set forth in
the Texas Bill of Rights (Art. I, § 2, §29; Art II §1; and Art. XVII §2g) and oppose Initiative and Referendum. We also urge
the Texas Legislature and the United States Congress to enact legislation prohibiting any jurisdiction from allowing any
substitute or parallel system of Law, specifically, but not limited to, Sharia Law, to be recognized which is not in
accordance with the Constitutions of Texas or of the United States of America.


Constitutional Convention – We oppose any constitutional convention to rewrite the United States Constitution. We
demand the Legislature rescind its 1977 call for such a convention. We call upon other states to rescind their votes for
such a convention.


Homestead Protection – We support continuance of Texas’ homestead protection.


Free Speech for the Clergy – We urge change of the Internal Revenue Code to allow a religious organization to address
issues without fear of losing its tax-exempt status. We call for repeal of requirements that religious organizations send
government any personal information about their contributors.


The Rights of a Sovereign People – The Republican Party of Texas supports the historic concept, established by our
nations’ founders, of limited civil government jurisdiction under the natural laws of God, and repudiates the humanistic
doctrine that the state is sovereign over the affairs of men, the family and the church.


Judicial Restraint – We urge Congress to adopt the Constitutional Restoration Act and support the principle of judicial
restraint, which requires judges to interpret and apply rather than make the law. We support judges who strictly interpret
the law based on its original intent. We oppose judges who assume for themselves legislative powers.
Remedies to Activist Judiciary – We call Congress and the President to use their constitutional powers to restrain activist
judges. We urge Congress to adopt the Judicial Conduct Act of 2005 and remove judges who abuse their authority.
Further, we urge Congress to withhold Supreme Court jurisdiction in cases involving abortion, religious freedom, and the
Bill of Rights.


Contributions to Conservative Candidates – We support the withholding of campaign contributions to organizations or
campaigns including the Republican National Committee, the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee, the
National Republican Congressional Committee and all other organizations or campaigns which would support candidates
who do not support the principles of the 2010 Texas State Republican Party Platform.


Filibuster – We support return to the traditional Filibuster in the U.S. Senate.
Rosebush-Blocker Rule – We oppose the Rosebush-Blocker rule in the Texas Senate.


Ten Commandments – We oppose any governmental action to restrict, prohibit, or remove public display of the
Decalogue or other religious symbols.
Constitution in Public Schools – We believe that all state-funded schools should read and teach the constitutions of the
United States of America and the State of Texas.
Pledge of Allegiance – We support adoption of the Pledge Protection Act. We also demand that the National Motto “In
God We Trust” and National Anthem be protected from legislative and judicial attack.
American English – We support adoption of American English as the official language of Texas and of the United States.
Flag Desecration – Any form of desecration of the American Flag is an act of disregard for our nation and its people and
penalties should be established for such.
Symbols of American Heritage – We call upon governmental entities to protect all symbols of our American heritage from
being altered in any way.
Confederate Widows Plaque – We call for restoration of plaques honoring the Confederate Widow’s Pension Fund
contribution that were removed from the Texas Supreme Court building.


Family and Defense of Marriage – We support the definition of marriage as a God–ordained, legal and moral commitment
only between a natural man and a natural woman, which is the foundational unit of a healthy society, and we oppose the
assault on marriage by judicial activists. We call on the President and Congress to take immediate action to defend the
sanctity of marriage. We are resolute that Congress exercise authority under the United States Constitution, and pass
legislation withholding jurisdiction from the Federal Courts in cases involving family law, especially any changes in the
definition of marriage. We further call on Congress to pass and the state legislatures to ratify a marriage amendment
declaring that marriage in the United States shall consist of and be recognized only as the union of a natural man and a
natural woman. Neither the United States nor any state shall recognize or grant to any unmarried person the legal rights
or status of a spouse. We oppose the recognition of and granting of benefits to people who represent themselves as
domestic partners without being legally married. We advocate the repeal of laws that place an unfair tax burden on
families. We call upon Congress to completely remove the marriage penalty in the tax code, whereby a married couple
receives a smaller standard deduction than their unmarried counterparts living together. The primary family unit consists
of those related by blood, heterosexual marriage, or adoption. The family is responsible for its own welfare, education,
moral training, conduct, and property.
Family Values – We affirm that this section is a response to the attacks on traditional family values. These include wellfunded,
vigorous political and judicial attempts by powerful organizations and branches of the government to force
acceptance, affirmation and normalization of homosexual behavior upon school children, parents, educational institutions,
businesses, employees, government bodies and religious institutions and charities. These aggressive, intolerant efforts
marginalize as bigots anyone who dissents.
Marriage and Divorce – We believe in the sanctity of marriage and that the integrity of this institution should be protected
at all levels of government. We urge the Legislature to rescind no–fault divorce laws. We support Covenant Marriage.
Marriage Licenses – We support legislation that would make it a felony to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple
and for any civil official to perform a marriage ceremony for such.
Homosexuality – We believe that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society, contributes to the breakdown
of the family unit, and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the
fundamental, unchanging truths that have been
ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be
presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle in our public education and policy, nor should “family” be redefined to
include homosexual “couples.” We are opposed to any granting of special legal entitlements, refuse to recognize, or grant
special privileges including, but not limited to: marriage between persons of the same sex (regardless of state of origin),
custody of children by homosexuals, homosexual partner insurance or retirement benefits. We oppose any criminal or civil
penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values.
Texas Sodomy Statutes – We oppose the legalization of sodomy. We demand that Congress exercise its authority
granted by the U.S. Constitution to withhold jurisdiction from the federal courts from cases involving sodomy.
Pornography – We urge our governmental bodies to enforce laws regarding all forms of pornography. We urge more
stringent legislation to prohibit all pornography including virtual pornography and operation of sexually–oriented
businesses. We oppose the sale of “Not Rated” (NR) movies and video games to minors.
Ethics in Broadcasting – We call upon the Federal Communications Commission to revoke broadcast licenses of stations
that air programs and advertisements in violation of existing laws and FCC guidelines. We further oppose reinstatement of
the Fairness Doctrine and any similar concept, which would limit outlets for free speech.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
26th June 10, 05:14 AM
Party Candidates and the Platform on Protecting Innocent Human Life – We implore our Party to support, financially or
with in-kind contributions, only those candidates who support protecting innocent human life. Further, we strongly
encourage the State Republican Executive Committee to hear and recognize the longstanding and overwhelmingly
consistent voice of the grass roots and revise its by-laws to make this action binding on our Party.
Partial Birth Abortion – We oppose partial birth abortion. We recommend that Congress eliminate from all federal court
jurisdictions all cases involving challenges to banning Partial Birth Abortion.
Right To Life – All innocent human life must be respected and safeguarded from fertilization to natural death; therefore,
the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We affirm our support for a Human
Life Amendment to the Constitution and to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protection applies to unborn
children. We support the Life at Conception Act. We oppose the use of public revenues and/or facilities for abortion or
abortion–related services. We support the elimination of public funding for organizations that advocate or support
abortion. We are resolute regarding the reversal of Roe v. Wade. We affirm our support for the appointment and election
of judges at all levels of the judiciary who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life. We
insist that the U.S. Department of Justice needs to prosecute hospitals or abortion clinics for committing induced labor
(live birth) abortion. We are opposed to genocide, euthanasia, and
assisted suicide. We oppose legislation allowing the withholding of nutrition and hydration to the terminally ill or
handicapped. Until our final goal of total Constitutional rights for the unborn child is achieved, we beseech the Texas
Legislature in consideration of our state’s rights, to enact laws that restrict and regulate abortion including:
1. parental and informed consent;
2. prohibition of abortion for gender selection;
3. prohibition of abortion due to the results of genetic diagnosis
4. licensing, liability, and malpractice insurance for abortionists and abortion facilities;
5. prohibition of financial kickbacks for abortion referrals;
6. prohibition of partial birth and late term abortions; and
7. enactment of any other laws which will advance the right to life for unborn children.
Sonograms – We urge the Texas legislature in its next biennial session to enact legislation requiring a sonogram be
performed and offered as part of the consent process to each mother seeking an elective abortion.
Harassing Pregnancy Centers – We urge legislation to protect pregnancy centers from harassing ordinances to require
pregnancy centers to post signs in violation of their Constitutional rights. We further oppose any regulation of pregnancy
centers in Texas which interfere with their private, charitable business.
Choose Life - We ask the Legislature to provide Texans opportunity to purchase "Choose Life" license plates.
Parental Consent – We call on the Legislature to require parental consent for any form of medical care to minors. We urge
electoral defeat of judges who through judicial activism seek to nullify the Parental Consent Law by granting bypasses to
minor girls seeking abortions. We support the addition
of a legislative requirement for the reporting of judicial bypasses to parental consent on an annual basis to the Department
of State Health Services and such reports shall be made available to the public. Further, we encourage the Congress to
remove confidentiality mandates for minors from family planning service programs operating under Title X of the Public
Health Services Act and Medicaid.
Protection of Women’s Health – Because of the personal and social pain caused by abortions, we call for the protection of
both women and their unborn children from pressure for unwanted abortions. We commend the Texas Legislature for the
passage of the Woman’s Right to Know Act, a law requiring abortion providers, prior to an abortion, to provide women full
knowledge of the physical and psychological risks of abortion, the characteristics of the unborn child, and abortion
alternatives. We urge the state government and the Department of State Health Services to ensure that all abortion
providers are in compliance with this informed consent law and to ensure that all pregnancy centers and other entities
assisting women in crisis pregnancies have equal access to the informational brochures created by the Department of
State Health Services.
Alternatives to Abortion – We urge the Department of State Health Services to provide adequate quantities of The
Woman’s Right to Know Resource Directory to anyone that works with pregnant women.
RU 486 – We urge the FDA to rescind approval of the physically dangerous RU-486 and oppose limiting the
manufacturers’ and distributors’ liability.
Morning After Pill – We oppose sale and use of the dangerous “Morning After Pill.”
Gestational Contracts – We believe rental of a woman’s womb makes child bearing a mere commodity to the highest
bidder and petition the Legislature to rescind House Bill 724 of the 78th Legislature. We support the adoption of human
embryos and the banning of human embryo trafficking.
Unborn Child Pain Protection – We support legislation that requires doctors, at first opportunity, to provide to a woman
who is pregnant, information about the nervous system development of her unborn child and to provide pain relief for her
unborn if she orders an abortion.
Unborn Victims of Violence Legislation – We urge the State to ensure that the Prenatal Protection Law is interpreted
accurately and consider the unborn child as an equal victim in any crime, including domestic violence.
Abortion Clinics – We propose legislation that holds abortion clinics to the same health regulations as other medical
facilities and that subjects clinics to the same malpractice liabilities. We oppose any public funding for Planned
Parenthood or other organizations/facilities that provide, advocate or promote abortions.
Abortion Requirements for Hospitals – We propose legislation that entitles hospitals to refuse to perform abortions
because government has no moral authority to require such an abortion.
Conscience Clause – We believe that doctors, nurses, pharmacists, any employees of hospitals and insurance
companies, health care organizations, medical and scientific research students, and any employee should be protected by
Texas law if they conscientiously object to participate in practices that conflict with their moral or religious beliefs,
including but not limited to abortion, the prescription for and dispensing of drugs with abortifacient potential, human
cloning, embryonic stem cell research, eugenic screenings, euthanasia, assisted suicide, and the withdrawal of nutrition
and hydration. We call on the Texas Legislature to pass legislation to strengthen and clarify the current conscience clause
in the Occupational Code to include the above-mentioned persons and practices. We further encourage legislation that requires
hospitals and clinics to inform all health care personnel of their right to refuse to become involved in abortion or euthanasia, and their
protection from prosecution and retaliation under Texas law.
Fetal Tissue Harvesting – We support legislation prohibiting experimentation with human fetal tissue and prohibiting the
use of human fetal tissue or organs for experimentation or commercial sale. Until such time that fetal tissue harvesting is
illegal, any product containing fetal tissue shall be so
labeled.
Stem Cell Research – We oppose any legislation that would allow for the creation and/or killing of human embryos for
medical research. We encourage stem cell research using cells from umbilical cords, from adults, and from any other
means which does not kill human embryos. We oppose any state funding of research that destroys/kills human embryos.
We encourage the adoption of existing embryos. We call for legislation to withhold state and/or federal funding from
institutions that engage in scientific research involving the killing of human embryos or human cloning.
Human Cloning – Each human life, whether created naturally or through an artificial process, deserves protection. We
confirm that somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT) is the process by which a human being is cloned, and that SCNT
creates a unique human being with the same properties of a human embryo created through the union of sperm and egg.
We seek a ban on human cloning for reproductive purposes (where a cloned human embryo, created through SCNT, is
implanted in a womb and the human clone is birthed). We also seek a ban on research cloning (where a cloned human
embryo, created through SCNT, is created, grown in the laboratory, and then destroyed when its stem cells are extracted
for research purposes). Furthermore, criminal penalties should be created and experimenters prosecuted who participate
in the cloning of human beings. No government or state funding should be provided for any human cloning.
Patient Protection – We support patients’ rights by calling on the state legislature to amend the Advance Directive Act to
establish due process of law and ensure that a physician’s decision to deny life saving treatment against the patient’s will
or advance directive is not due to economic or racial discrimination or discrimination based on disability. We also support
the passage of legislation to amend the Advance Directive Act by requiring hospitals intending or threatening to withdraw
life-sustaining treatment against the patient’s wishes or their advance directive to continue all treatment and care for such
patients pending transfer to another facility.
Gene Manufacturing – We support a ban on research that alters human DNA in living human beings at any stage of life,
including the altering of artificial, manufactured, and natural genes and chromosomes.


Gambling - We continue to oppose gambling as a means of financing state government. Government–sponsored
gambling has had a devastating impact on many Texas families. Moreover, we oppose any further legalization,
government facilitation, or financial guarantees relating to any type of gambling including casino, riverboat, video lottery
terminals (VLTs), slot machine, video keno, eight-liners, multi-state lotteries, and other games of chance including on
Indian reservations. We support the repeal of the state lottery, and enforcement of existing laws and regulations related to
gambling. We oppose dedicating any government revenue from gambling to create or expand any governmental program.


Americans with Disabilities Act – We support amendment of the Americans with Disabilities Act to exclude from its
definition those persons with infectious diseases, substance addiction, learning disabilities, behavior disorders,
homosexual practices and mental stress, thereby reducing abuse of the Act.


Bilingual Education – English is the language of commerce, therefore a successful tiered language instruction program
with the following provisions is recommended:
• Year 1: 70% English / 30% Native language (Year 1 indicates first year of U.S. based education)
• Year 2: 80% English / 20% Native language
• Year 3: 90% English / 10% Native language
• Year 4 and thereafter: 100% English (No bilingual education after year 3)
All students must pass recognized standard tests that verify each student’s English ability for their grade level
before advancing. No research based evidence exists that a dual language program promotes the language of
commerce.


Controversial Theories – Realizing that conflict and debate is a proven learning tool in classrooms, we support
objective teaching and equal treatment of all sides of scientific theories, including evolution, Intelligent Design, global
warming, political philosophies, and others. We believe theories of life origins and environmental theories should be
taught as challengeable scientific theory subject to change as new data is produced, not scientific law. Teachers and
students should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of
retribution or discrimination of any kind.


Pledge of Allegiance in Public Schools – Students should be led daily in the Pledge of Allegiance, the Texas Pledge, the
National Anthem, and be taught flag etiquette and patriotic songs to ensure that the loyal and patriotic spirit of Texan
and American heritage is preserved.


Religious Freedom in Public Schools – We urge school administrators and officials to inform Texas school students
specifically of their First Amendment rights to pray and engage in religious speech, individually or in groups, on school
property without government interference. We support and strongly urge Congress to pass a Religious Freedom
Amendment, which provides: “Neither the United States nor any State shall prohibit student–sponsored prayer in
public schools, nor compose any official student prayer or compel joining therein.” We urge the Legislature to end
censorship of discussion of religion in our founding documents, and encourage discussing those documents.


Sex Education – We recognize parental responsibility and authority regarding sex education. We support policies that
mandate parental notification and consent before any sex education program is presented to their child. Parents must
be given an opportunity to review the material prior to giving their consent. We oppose any sex education other than
abstinence until heterosexual marriage.


Safeguarding Our Religious Liberties – We affirm that the public acknowledgement of God is undeniable in our history and
is vital to our freedom, prosperity and strength. We pledge our influence toward a return to the original intent of the First
Amendment and toward dispelling the myth of separation of church and state.


Equality of All Citizens – We deplore all discrimination. We also deplore forced sensitivity training and urge repeal of any
mandate requiring it. We urge immediate repeal of the Hate Crimes Law. Until the Hate Crimes Law is totally repealed,
we urge the Legislature to immediately remove the education curriculum mandate and the sexual orientation category in
said Law.


Boy Scouts of America – We support the Boy Scouts of America and reject any attempt to undermine or fundamentally
change the ideals of the organization.


Prison Reform – We believe our prison systems should emphasize protection of society and punishment of offenders,
ever mindful of their human rights. The state should assist offenders who desire reform. Prisoners should be required to
perform meaningful work. Prisoners should not have
access to private information of any citizen. We support alternative methods of prison administration. We support
prohibiting prisoners from initiating frivolous lawsuits. No extraordinary medical care, including organ transplants or body
part replacement, should be performed on prisoners at taxpayer expense.


Crime Shouldn’t Pay – No convicted criminal should be allowed to profit from sale of rights to their story for books,
movies, etc., while incarcerated, on parole, or on probation.


Addictive Behaviors – We encourage state and federal governments to severely prosecute illegal dealers and
manufacturers of addictive substances and pornography. We urge Congress to discourage export of such substances into
our country. Faith based rehabilitation programs should be emphasized. We oppose legalization of illegal drugs. We
support an effective abstinence-based educational program for children. We oppose any “needle exchange” program. We
urge vigorous enforcement of our DUI laws.


Downsizing the Federal Government – We support abolishing all federal agencies whose activities are not granted in the
Constitution, including the Departments of Education and Energy. We support a sunset provision law at the federal level.


Faith-Based Charities – We oppose any restrictions by any government agency on taxpayer contributions to churches and
faith-based charities.


Federal Tax Reform – We recommend a national sales tax (which does not include a Value Added Tax) to replace all
other Federal taxes once the I.R.S. is abolished and the Sixteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is repealed.
However, until such time that the income tax is abolished, we support deductions for private and home schooling, home
mortgages, and sales taxes.
Permanent Tax Cuts – We urge the income tax, capital gains tax, estate tax, and all other tax reductions be made
permanent.


Frivolous Lawsuits – We support further reform to discourage frivolous lawsuits. We oppose the abusive use of class
action lawsuits.


Workers’ Compensation – We urge the Legislature to resist making Workers’ Compensation mandatory for all Texas
employers.
Minimum Wage – We believe the Minimum Wage Law should be repealed.
Prevailing Wage Law – We urge the federal legislature to repeal the Prevailing Wage Law and the Davis Bacon Act.


Foreign Control of US Interests – We oppose sale, transfer, management or ownership of U.S. interests by foreign or international
interests. Foreign owned properties and income shall be subject to all U.S. laws.


National Defense – We support funding for a strong national defense; development and funding of ballistic missile and space based
weapons systems maintaining our military’s effective combat strength sufficient to defend our nation’s borders and its strategic
interests; avoiding new arms control agreements with any nation not complying with previous agreements; never deploying the military
except against invasion or threat to our vital interests, which may include pre-emptive action; and expiration of special emergency war
powers unless renewed by Congress in six-month intervals.


Legal Immigration – One nation, one flag, one language, one loyalty;
America is a country of immigrants, we should insist that any immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and
assimilates himself/herself to the United States. He/she shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else. This is predicated
upon the fact that the person is in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance. Anyone
who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t American at all. We have room but for one flag, the American Flag. We have
room for but one language here and that is the English language. We have room for but one sole loyalty and that is loyalty to the
American people. (Teddy Roosevelt, 1907)


Birthright Citizenship – We call on the Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches of these United States to clarify Section 1 of the 14th
amendment to limit citizenship by birth to those born to a citizen of the United States: with no exceptions.


Support of Our Armed Forces – We encourage all Americans to support the brave and patriotic men and women of our armed forces.
They should be paid a wage sufficient to prevent them from ever needing food stamps and that encourages retention. We strongly
recommend that all our armed forces remain commanded only by the Commander-in-Chief and his subordinate commanders;
upgrading, modernizing and maintaining the equipment, weapons, and vehicles for the safety, efficiency and effectiveness of our armed
forces; the continuation of an all volunteer armed forces, the recruitment and advancement of military personnel based on the needs of
the military and the qualifications of the person; disqualification of homosexuals from military service; immediate discharge of HIV
positive individuals; separation of men and women in basic training; exclusion of women from ground and submarine combat roles;
provision of full military honors for burial of veterans; restoration of all veteran benefits without an offset for disability pay; health and
disability benefits equal to active military for national guard and reserves; passage of a “new” G.I Bill that fully funds expanded
educational scholarship opportunities for honorably separated Veterans; restoration of full lifetime health benefits to retired military and
their families; and assurance that military and civilian voters displaced by their service be afforded full opportunity for their votes to be
counted; and the expeditious construction of a Veterans Museum in Texas. We oppose the repeal of the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.


Cuba – We support the continuation of the embargo against Cuba until democracy is restored. We call for the release of all political
prisoners currently being held by the Castro regime. We support political asylum for all refugees fleeing political oppression in Cuba.


Hamas – We should not reward terrorism by allowing a Palestinian state carved out of historical Israel. Palestinians shall not receive
American aid as long as Hamas is their elected government. We should withdraw all financial support to Hamas and other elected
terrorists.
Iraq – There should be no timetable for pulling out of Iraq or Afghanistan. We support the democratically elected government in Iraq in
order to avoid tyranny and provide stabilization of the Middle East. We support continued economic and security assistance to Iraq. (We
flipped the sentences around)

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
26th June 10, 09:09 AM
....it also calls for the re-criminalization of sodomy....

Jesus isnt going to like this...

Wounded Ronin
29th June 10, 04:00 PM
What a bunch of macaroons. Don't they know that the UN has a convention on the rights of the child? If they're so into protecting children they should just pressure the federal government to sign on.

Badum ching.

WarPhalange
29th June 10, 06:52 PM
wear a robe and sandles in winter.

I totally could. It's like 70F over here in the winter.