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View Full Version : Muhammed Cartoonist Attacked



jkdbuck76
12th May 10, 08:23 AM
1fg8KRTXDRU

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/muhammad-cartoonist-lars-vilks-attacked-during-college-lecture/19473427?icid=main%7Cmain%7Cdl1%7Clink6%7Chttp%3A% 2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fworld%2Farticle%2Fmuhammad-cartoonist-lars-vilks-attacked-during-college-lecture%2F19473427

Sorry for the long URL above. I suck at this. Apparently, the Islam-enhanced student units didn't appreciate Muhammed going into a gh3y bar....or the portrayal thereof. So instead of arguing, one young man decides to use headbutts. I wonder if he watched Vunak's old tape?

The saddest part was that the university canceled the rest of the lecture. So basically, the violent durka durka's got rewarded for their violence; it says that they cheered.

mrblackmagic
12th May 10, 08:36 AM
Why are shock artist always surprised when somebody attacks them?

EvilSteve
12th May 10, 09:00 AM
If these fuckwits don't like Mohammad being portrayed as gay then maybe they should stop being such faggots about people depicting him.

danno
12th May 10, 10:00 AM
i'm glad they had the foresight to have security there.

i've never liked what these cartoonists do, but physically attacking someone in a lecture is not on.

EuropIan
12th May 10, 10:04 AM
Lol at Swedish police.

Lol at the Muslims acting really upset

SFGOON
12th May 10, 10:22 AM
HA HA! Did you see the guy who got OC'd! HA HA HA HA HA!!

I wonder how Lars would like to see my cartoon of me digging up his dead mother and violating her remains, repeleted with necro-sodomy and a impromtu golden shower.

Would he find it artistic? Or would it upset him?

I genuinely respect those who treat fightin' words as fightin' words.

Vieux Normand
12th May 10, 10:45 AM
Mo as a pig. Mo as a diaper-ripping pedo. Mo going into gay bars. Mo as a furry.

What's with all this talk of "cartoon depictions" and "satire"?

It's just history told straight-up...so what?

EuropIan
12th May 10, 10:52 AM
I wonder how Lars would like to see my cartoon of me digging up his dead mother and violating her remains, repeleted with necro-sodomy and a impromtu golden shower.

Would he find it artistic? Or would it upset him?


Probably a light chuckle.

jkdbuck76
12th May 10, 11:20 AM
Don't they fear being kicked out of the country? I saw one guy hit one of the officers. His ass needs to be on the next plane out. I think that we're going to see more and more of this kind of thing. Maybe the Europeans are getting tired of the muslims living on their continent?

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
12th May 10, 11:25 AM
Maybe the Europeans are getting tired of the muslims living on their continent?

Wierdly some europeans are actually muslims.....Crazy I know!

jkdbuck76
12th May 10, 11:28 AM
Yeah. You need your head checked [/sarcasm]

I guess what I'm asking is this: is there backlash against middle eastern folk in Europe? If so, then how bad is it? What is the end game (and I'm not talking about the douchey Highlander sequel)?

EuropIan
12th May 10, 12:38 PM
Depends on the country.


Deportations have happened before.

KO'd N DOA
12th May 10, 02:39 PM
Loved it. But why are they calling for this guy to help them?

http://swg.stratics.com/content/lore/personas/images/ackbar.gif
.

jkdbuck76
12th May 10, 04:08 PM
^^
It's a tr4p!!!!

Ajamil
12th May 10, 04:21 PM
Amber Lamps - now in Swedish flavor.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1016/swedishamberlamps.jpg

mrblackmagic
12th May 10, 04:23 PM
Ga-hwa-hahaha!

kracker
12th May 10, 04:51 PM
Given the nature of the video (police vs protestors) I would normally criticize the police use of force but you know what, fuck these freedom hating pussies. They deserve to get their asses kicked a lot worse than they did. Seriously, if they want to live in a place where anything remotely offensive is censored then they should go back to their shithole countries and leave Western democracies alone. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for welcoming immigrants from places that suck. My ancestors left their places of origin because their places of origin sucked ass. But if you're going to insist we cut back on our own freedoms to make you feel comfortable you can go fuck yourself (and get your head cut off as punishment cause that's what happens to people who jerk off in Muslim countries). I'm not going to go to Saudi Arabia and insist on walking around naked while eating bacon and yelling about how Mohamed was a pedophile. Why, because it's fucking stupid and I know I'm going to get my ass kicked. Similarly, these fuckers should stop coming to free and democratic countries if this is the kind of shit they're going to pull. We live in the 21st century up here, not the middle ages. Deal with it or GTFO.

HappyOldGuy
12th May 10, 04:54 PM
Given the nature of the video (police vs protestors) I would normally criticize the police use of force but you know what, fuck these freedom hating pussies. They deserve to get their asses kicked a lot worse than they did. Seriously, if they want to live in a place where anything remotely offensive is censored then they should go back to their shithole countries and leave Western democracies alone. I'm not going to go to Saudi Arabia and insist on walking around naked these fuckers should stop coming to free and democratic countries if this is the kind of shit they're going to pull. We live in the 21st century up here, not the middle ages. Deal with it or GTFO.

I guess it is graduation time.

Aphid Jones
12th May 10, 10:18 PM
Depressing. RL troll baits successfully, gets world to outrage-whore for him.

danno
12th May 10, 10:57 PM
Given the nature of the video (police vs protestors) I would normally criticize the police use of force but you know what, fuck these freedom hating pussies.

so if they weren't muslims you'd be outraged?

nifoc
13th May 10, 03:46 AM
This happened less than a km from my home. Swedish papers and bloggs have been full of discussions about this for the last day.

A few points:
In an interview vilks has said that the primary attacker never actually reached him, and that he was only tackled by a police officer trying to interpose himself before the attacker. The story of the headbutt keeps circulating in the media though. I don't know what the truth is.

With regards to kicking them out of the country: Sweden has a policy where we don't kick out anyone that has been granted asylum. Since these are most likely refugees from some middle eastern shithole, they are protected by that law for now. If they are convicted of assault they might be deported to serve out their sentence in their homeland.

I don't know if the article in the OP discusses what the point of the lecture was, or what set these idiots off, but here goes (as far as has been explained in swedish papers): Vilks had been invited by Uppsala university's Philosophical institution to give a lecture on the concepts of freedom of speech and press. At the start of the lecture Vilks showed several works of art (not his own) depicting religious figures in a degrading manner. The include a picture of Jesus lowered into a container of urine and a crucifix shaped like a penis.

He then showed an artisitic video by Iranian-born Dutch artist Sooreh Hera, where Muhammed is portrayed as a gay man. This is when the attack happened.


I don't see religion as excempt from ridicule, or enjoying special protection under the law (at least here in Sweden it doesn't). What Vilks did may have been provocative, even blatantly so, but in responding in this manner the attackers only worsen the situation for other immigrant (and often quite secular) muslims. By attacking basic rights (such as freedom of expression), and placing their religion above swedish law, they only prove to a lot of intolerant people that they don't belong in civilised society.

The difference is that Vilks may have been "wrong" to do what he did, but he certainly had the legal right.
What the attackers did was both wrong and illegal.

EDIT: Apparently it is the police that are saying that the attacker never reached Vilks. They say that in the commotion caused by the attack, Vilks may have been tackled by police whilst being led hurriedly to safety.

The local paper reports three people, two men and a woman being arrested on site, and another man being arrested later the same evening. All four are being held for attempted assault.

A large picture in yesterdays paper show a small group of relatively young people (the four arrested are said to between 18 and 20) shouting, and some of them looking quite pleased, in the lecture hall. What strikes me is the older gentleman in the middle of the group wearing what looks like a black suit and looking both out of place and somewhat smug. Maybe it's just paranoia.

jkdbuck76
13th May 10, 11:39 AM
Thanks for the update, nifoc.

I guess everything depends on which side one is on. For instance, pretend I think that these middle eastern men are wrong for getting all worked up and supposedly resorting to violence to silence the criticism.

Would it be equally wrong to get a bunch of my redneck buddies and beat the shit out of Fred Phelps and his family while they are holding up "God Hates Fags!" posters?

Doritosaurus Chex
13th May 10, 11:44 AM
It would be wrong to assault Freddy Phelps et al because you're basically giving him his paycheck.

EuropIan
13th May 10, 12:35 PM
Blasphemy isn't new in Scandinavia. In the sixties, there was a guy who made an art film about Jesus blowing dudes.

Lebell
13th May 10, 12:43 PM
hahaha!
dumbass muslims.
so insecure.
im xtian, lets say im in the audience when this movie is being shown where jesus blows off guys.

i'd just shrug and laugh about the stupidity of the moviemakers.
i wouldnt even yell or walk away in anger.

same with the muslim cartoons, justforget the insultive nature for their precious religion etc.
just look at the sarcastic value or the comedy value of said cartoons: its not even funny.

what is the friggin problem?
thats the whole thing with a lotta muslims: they are like children and just respond whenever some sand drips in their vaginas.

EvilSteve
13th May 10, 12:43 PM
It would be wrong to assault Freddy Phelps et al because you're basically giving him his paycheck.

You know- never realized this about Fred Phelps:



Phelps earned a law degree from Washburn University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washburn_University) in 1962, and founded the Phelps Chartered law firm in 1964. The first notable cases were related to civil rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights). "I systematically brought down the Jim Crow laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws) of this town," he says.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps#cite_note-Lauerman-12) Phelps' daughter was quoted as saying, "We took on the Jim Crow establishment, and Kansas did not take that sitting down. They used to shoot our car windows out, screaming we were nigger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger) lovers," and that the Phelps law firm made up one-third of the state's federal docket of civil rights cases.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps#cite_note-OCWeekly-15)
Phelps took cases on behalf of African American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American) clients alleging racial discrimination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_discrimination) by school systems, and a predominantly black American Legion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legion) post which had been raided by police, alleging racially-based police abuse. Phelps' law firm obtained settlements for some clients.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps#cite_note-CJOnline1-16) Phelps also sued then-President Ronald Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan) over Reagan's appointment of a U.S. ambassador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassador) to the Vatican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See), alleging this violated separation of church and state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state). The case was dismissed by the U.S. district court.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps#cite_note-CJOnline1-16)[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps#cite_note-17) Phelps' law firm, staffed by himself and family members also represented non-white Kansans in discrimination actions against Kansas Power and Light (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kansas_Power_and_Light&action=edit&redlink=1), Southwestern Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Bell), and the Topeka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topeka) City Attorney, and represented two female professors alleging discrimination in Kansas universities.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps#cite_note-OCWeekly-15)
In the 1980s, Phelps received awards from the Greater Kansas City Chapter of Blacks in Government and the Bonner Springs branch of the NAACP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAACP), for his work on behalf of black clients.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps#cite_note-ADL-18)
Phelps Chartered also won one of the first reverse discrimination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_discrimination) cases.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps#cite_note-19)



So yeah, I guess it does depend whose side you are on, because I bet a lot of pretty odious individuals wanted to beat up Fred Phelps long before he became an odious individual himself.

kracker
13th May 10, 02:38 PM
so if they weren't muslims you'd be outraged?

It's not so much the Muslim part as opposed to the desire to censor the freedom of speech of others. Ifa bunch of white dudes had a problem with what someone said and decided to headbutt him, they would deserve to get their asses kicked as well.

kracker
13th May 10, 02:45 PM
Thanks for the update, nifoc.

I guess everything depends on which side one is on. For instance, pretend I think that these middle eastern men are wrong for getting all worked up and supposedly resorting to violence to silence the criticism.

Would it be equally wrong to get a bunch of my redneck buddies and beat the shit out of Fred Phelps and his family while they are holding up "God Hates Fags!" posters?

He'd enjoy being physically dominated by other dudes too much, so yeah it would be wrong. Seriously though, as vile as it is, they are within their rights to spout their bullshit as long as they aren't going out and doing physical damage, just as we are in our rights to call them a bunch of closet cases.

nifoc
13th May 10, 03:39 PM
Would it be equally wrong to get a bunch of my redneck buddies and beat the shit out of Fred Phelps and his family while they are holding up "God Hates Fags!" posters?

Despite my personal loathing for Phelpses intolerant nature, and his habit of spewing ignorant shit; yes, it would be wrong. Beating him up proves to him and his ilk that he is in the right, and gives him massive amount of press.

I think the self-sencoring in western media in the name of political correctness is in many ways too harmful to society, and that Vilks has helped put that debate in the spotlight. To be honest, were it not for the death-threats and massively bunched panties of some muslims noone would have given a shit about his mediocre art.

I should state that both outside the lecture, and in later statements, many muslims have stated that, despite their disgust at the way muhammed was portrayed in Vilks lecture, violence is the wrong answer. There was also a peaceful protest outside, where many people held sign saying (in swedish) "we love both sweden and muhammed".

I know a few, albeit very secular, muslims that actually looked up the video shown that set these people off (I think it's called "Allah oh Gaybar"), they found it massively unfunny. By that I mean that they thought that it failed as satire (I don't know that humor was the point but...), they did however not get upset, nor did they care about any "blasphemy".

Nothing should be so "sacred" that it is beyond question or ridicule. Unfortunately that means allowing even crackpots the freedom of speech, but the alternative is so much worse. In Sweden we already have the "freedom from persecution"-thing restricting free speech. It basically states that one can't incite hate against an ethnic group (it has since been expanded to include sexual orientation). I disagree with such a restriction on principle, because it makes any discussion about the problems of immigration, or rather integration, inherently a dance on eggshells around the "race card". I can understand its necessity, because people are, in general, idiots and assholes, I just think that mature people should be able to have these discussions without playing a blame game. Maybe the problem is that our (and most of the worlds) political system is filled to the brim with whiny children.

Ajamil
13th May 10, 04:52 PM
hahaha!
dumbass muslims.
so insecure.
im xtian, lets say im in the audience when this movie is being shown where jesus blows off guys.

i'd just shrug and laugh about the stupidity of the moviemakers.
i wouldnt even yell or walk away in anger.

same with the muslim cartoons, justforget the insultive nature for their precious religion etc.
just look at the sarcastic value or the comedy value of said cartoons: its not even funny.

what is the friggin problem?
thats the whole thing with a lotta muslims: they are like children and just respond whenever some sand drips in their vaginas.
And yet whinging about anything even remotely related to WW2 is relevant, important, and not the same at all?

danno
13th May 10, 07:38 PM
It's not so much the Muslim part as opposed to the desire to censor the freedom of speech of others. Ifa bunch of white dudes had a problem with what someone said and decided to headbutt him, they would deserve to get their asses kicked as well.

would you rather it wasn't the police doing the arse kicking?

SoulMechanic
13th May 10, 07:56 PM
I think the police did a piss poor job "kicking ass." I can't believe that one officer allows a dude to swing at him and does relatively nothing in return. Bro's done get tased for less in my country.

danno
13th May 10, 08:11 PM
to kracker, it doesn't matter how much force a cop uses, it's still an OUTRAGE

kracker
13th May 10, 10:33 PM
would you rather it wasn't the police doing the arse kicking?

I would MUCH rather it was random yahoos doing the ass kicking. However, in this situation I accept the police doing it.

Zendetta
13th May 10, 11:27 PM
I would MUCH rather it was random yahoos doing the ass kicking.

Oh, yeah. Getting random, violently-inclined weirdos to dispense vigilante justice will certainly help straighten things out.

damn u dumb

Anyhow, the comparison to Fred Phelps fails. Here's why: no one is thinking of coming into Phelps' church and trying to shut him up like these assholes did the cartoonist.

Nah, it would be about Phelps showing up and talking shit at the wrong mutherfucker's funeral - much more akin to personal harassment than general blasphemy against some abstract idea or long-dead historical figure - and getting stomped by the dearly departed's whole platoon/motorcycle club/gay mens' chorus/etc.

Nobody's saying that Phelps can't spew his bullshit; it's more like "get in my face and earn points towards a free asswhuppin"

Whereas broad swaths of Islam actually do wreck your shit for having a tasteless sense of humor or lame-ass artistic standards.

Kicking Fred Phelps in the nuts? Totally right (although not totally legal)
Sending these fucks back to Kraplapistan? Also totally right.... legality?

Lebell
14th May 10, 02:06 AM
And yet whinging about anything even remotely related to WW2 is relevant, important, and not the same at all?

you really don't understand the point im trying to make huh?
my main point is always to get to the truth.
persue the truth.
muslim crybabies, outraged 'zomg holocaust' zionists and p.c. white men with guilt all get in the way of getting to the truth.

jesus said: be like children, do not worry where you cast off your clothes.


do you think he literally meant clothes?

think you hindu infadel!
THINK!

Lebell
14th May 10, 02:07 AM
I think the police did a piss poor job "kicking ass." I can't believe that one officer allows a dude to swing at him and does relatively nothing in return. Bro's done get tased for less in my country.

wanna borrow my glasses?
he didnt swing at the cop but at the dude in civilian clothes next to him.
look at the vid again.

nifoc
14th May 10, 03:08 AM
The local paper has the entirety of the lecture, until its interruption on its site.

link (http://www.unt.se/tv/#category=390&date=2010-5&clip=933445&startTime=0m0s)

Tonuzaba
14th May 10, 03:04 PM
...jesus said: be like children, do not worry where you cast off your clothes.
do you think he literally meant clothes?... I think he did. And I just might start to like this Jesus guy... ;-)

If those attackers are students, they should not be students the next day. They don't like the choices and possibilities of western university/communities, they should not be forced to participate...

And SFGOON, about disgracing ones' mother - please compare this to religious symbols after similar things have been done in the name of said mother...

nifoc
15th May 10, 04:10 AM
I don't think they were students, it was an open lecture, so anyone could attend. This is fairly common, at least in swedish universities, and serves to educate anyone with an interest in the subject matter.

As suspected many (not only muslim) religious institutions have expressed sadness at the events, and many seem to blame Vilks (though that may be due to a poor choice of words in the interviews). Many say that we have religious freedom and as such religious views should not be mocked. What they seem to be forgetting is that religious freedom also means the right to freedom FROM religion and the right to question and even ridicule religious views. A lot of it has to do with social acceptance, it is accepted that any adult expressing belief in the tooth fairy or santa claus is an idiot, and possibly mentally ill. But the same person expressing belief in an almighty entity that forces strange rules on his followers is to be respected, and even questioning his beliefs is considered rude. As an atheist I can't really see the difference between these beliefs (other than social acceptance), or maybe I'm an atheist because I can't see the difference.

Lebell
15th May 10, 06:11 AM
nifoc, that you're an atheist is fine with me.
putting all religions on the same level as believing in santa claus or the toothfairy is just a plane sign of ignorance.
its the same mistake dawkins makes.

there's a little bit more to religions then just the one dimensional weird crap you see with fundi's such as jihadbeards and phelps xtians.

its also usually those kinda pple who storm uni's and attack dissidents.
if one is truely a believer and confident you dont feel attacked.

danno
15th May 10, 06:20 AM
there's a little bit more to religions then just the one dimensional weird crap you see with fundi's such as jihadbeards

are you *almost* saying that there are muslims out there who are sensible human beings?

Lebell
15th May 10, 06:53 AM
are you *almost* saying that there are muslims out there who are sensible human beings?

no, there are PEOPLE out there who are sensible human beings.
you cant follow islamic rule and be sensible.
for example the guys who drove the planes in the twin towers were true believers according to their book.
any muslim who doesnt do what for example the muslims did during the cartoonists speech are not true muslims.

that's the point.
are there sensible muslims out there?
loads of em!
is that because of is islam?
no its DESPITE of islam.

Tonuzaba
15th May 10, 07:00 AM
...you cant follow *INSERT ANY ORGANISED RELIGIONS NAME* rule and be sensible...
Say what? :-)

danno
15th May 10, 07:04 AM
no, there are PEOPLE out there who are sensible human beings.
you cant follow islamic rule and be sensible.
for example the guys who drove the planes in the twin towers were true believers according to their book.
any muslim who doesnt do what for example the muslims did during the cartoonists speech are not true muslims.

that's the point.
are there sensible muslims out there?
loads of em!
is that because of is islam?
no its DESPITE of islam.

but xtians, on the other hand, are sensible BECAUSE of xtianity?

Lebell
15th May 10, 07:12 AM
but xtians, on the other hand, are sensible BECAUSE of xtianity?
Sometimes, yes.
but never DESPITE.
due to the nature of the context.
Look, you're clearly rehashing p.c idiots and i don't want to make you look stupid.
i'll explain it really simple: In xtianity it's almost impossible to take Jesus' words and use them to be cruel to your fellow man or look down upon them.

read the quran and its kinda hard to NOT do these things.

thats the huge difference, if you consider both books fairytales, fine with me, but what im saying is: the bible's message is about good natured fairytales and the quran is a fairytale book of a less positive nature.
both books are available in the english language, go read them.

Lebell
15th May 10, 07:22 AM
here's a video i found that has more footage and is also subtitled.
s2IHnWY-i6Y

danno
15th May 10, 08:54 AM
Sometimes, yes.
but never DESPITE.
due to the nature of the context.
Look, you're clearly rehashing p.c idiots and i don't want to make you look stupid.
i'll explain it really simple: In xtianity it's almost impossible to take Jesus' words and use them to be cruel to your fellow man or look down upon them.

read the quran and its kinda hard to NOT do these things.

thats the huge difference, if you consider both books fairytales, fine with me, but what im saying is: the bible's message is about good natured fairytales and the quran is a fairytale book of a less positive nature.
both books are available in the english language, go read them.

both books are ambiguous, archaic pieces of shit, and it's quite easy to walk away with any interpretation you like. the character they called jesus said some pretty cool things, but he's mostly ignored and we're talking about the book as a whole.

i don't buy the "we're better because we're xtian" story. the west is better for a lot of reasons, but religion isn't one of them.

Lebell
15th May 10, 09:21 AM
both books are ambiguous, archaic pieces of shit, and it's quite easy to walk away with any interpretation you like. the character they called jesus said some pretty cool things, but he's mostly ignored and we're talking about the book as a whole.

i don't buy the "we're better because we're xtian" story. the west is better for a lot of reasons, but religion isn't one of them.

really?
because....YOU SAY SO?
why dont you motivate your reasons?

it's widely accepted that the christian-humanistic approach lead us to where we are now.
Did scolars miss something?

Did you read the new testament?
how is it archaic?
what did jesus teach which is now absolete?

nifoc
15th May 10, 09:22 AM
nifoc, that you're an atheist is fine with me.
putting all religions on the same level as believing in santa claus or the toothfairy is just a plane sign of ignorance.
its the same mistake dawkins makes.
Dawkins makes many mistakes, but putting an irrational belief in a mythological entity that rewards arbitrary notions of "good" behavior on the same level as Santa Claus is entirely appropriate. Certainly belief in some of these mythological entities is more dangerous to non-believers than others, but that has no impact on the rationality of the belief itself.

But please feel free to explain why belief in a deity is more rational than belief in Santa Claus.
You are also welcome to try to make a convincing argument why xtianity is more believable than islam/judaism/hinduism/scientology.

Perhaps that is best left to another thread...this thread is about Vilks and his right to free speech. I know I am partly to blame for the derail, and accept responibility for my part in that.

Phrost
15th May 10, 09:31 AM
It's clear that Arab culture is incompatible with European.

So why do you guys keep importing it?

danno
15th May 10, 09:43 AM
it's widely accepted that the christian-humanistic approach lead us to where we are now.

my list would say something like the enlightenment, secular government, democracy, capitalism, science, the industrial revolution, agricultural development, etc.

imo, the more secular we become, the better we become. that doesn't mean i'd want to ban religion or something, far from it.


Did you read the new testament?
how is it archaic?
what did jesus teach which is now absolete?

correct me if i'm wrong, cos i'd like to learn more about this - the new testament says many times that the old testament should be followed to the letter.

nifoc
15th May 10, 09:45 AM
It's clear that Arab culture is incompatible with European.

So why do you guys keep importing it?
Well, we did sign this little document called the Geneva convention. It contains several parts that define the legal status of refugees, and the signatory nations also promise to provide aid and sanctuary to those refugees.

As to why we haven't been more strict regarding their more retarded social customs...
Well, in a democratic nation it isn't technically illegal to hold crazy views regarding...anything really...ACTING on those crazy ideas are punished if they result in the behavior being illegal. You can't really make it illegal to not eat pork, or consider women to be inferior to men, as long as you don't try to force others to abstain from pork or women from, say, voting. Such laws might be implemented in a parliamentary fashion, but the stipulations for a free democratic society forbids them.

danno
15th May 10, 09:48 AM
Well, in a democratic nation it isn't technically illegal to hold crazy views regarding...anything really...ACTING on those crazy ideas are punished if they result in the behavior being illegal. You can't really make it illegal to not eat pork, or consider women to be inferior to men, as long as you don't try to force others to abstain from pork or women from, say, voting. Such laws might be implemented in a parliamentary fashion, but the stipulations for a free democratic society forbids them.

correct.

nifoc
15th May 10, 09:57 AM
what did jesus teach which is now absolete?
Other than the clearly apocalyptic teachings that all his followers should abandon family and land to prepare for the coming armageddon....the one claimed to come within a single lifetime?

Wether or not you personally believe that is irrelevant, reading the NT it is quite clear that Jesus (as portrayed) believed that a rapture would come within his disciples lifetime. This is often overlooked today, for obvious reasons, but it is there in the NT. I really don't know why they left it in, as it seems difficult to build a religion on; "well, see, we were suppossed to be lifted up to the heavens hundreds of years ago but...well...there seems to have been some form of delay".

Lebell
15th May 10, 09:59 AM
It's clear that Arab culture is incompatible with European.

So why do you guys keep importing it?

Good point, all europeans wonder the same thing.
we get it shoved down our throats.
hence the rise of right winged parties all over europe.

Dr. Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative Vermin
15th May 10, 10:23 AM
It's clear that Arab culture is incompatible with European.

So why do you guys keep importing it?

Like Christainity and algebra you mean?

Vieux Normand
15th May 10, 10:26 AM
It's clear that Arab culture is incompatible with European.

So why do you guys keep importing it?

Importing mid-eastern theistic crap to Europe started long before the Arabs made themselves noticed. Then Europe had to fight for centuries to shake off its shackles...and then, inexplicably, they've begun opening doors to it again, thus beginning the fight all over again.

Cultural masochism would be my guess.

Phrost
15th May 10, 04:20 PM
Well, we did sign this little document called the Geneva convention. It contains several parts that define the legal status of refugees, and the signatory nations also promise to provide aid and sanctuary to those refugees.

As to why we haven't been more strict regarding their more retarded social customs...
Well, in a democratic nation it isn't technically illegal to hold crazy views regarding...anything really...ACTING on those crazy ideas are punished if they result in the behavior being illegal. You can't really make it illegal to not eat pork, or consider women to be inferior to men, as long as you don't try to force others to abstain from pork or women from, say, voting. Such laws might be implemented in a parliamentary fashion, but the stipulations for a free democratic society forbids them.
Good luck with that.

HappyOldGuy
15th May 10, 04:56 PM
Good luck with that.

Am I the only one who wonders if Phrost has ever actually read the declaration of independence or the constitution?

nifoc
15th May 10, 05:40 PM
Am I the only one who wonders if Phrost has ever actually read the declaration of independence or the constitution?
Considering his very vocal defence of parts of it, one would hope that he has. Considering some of his views on it, I have my doubts.

danno
15th May 10, 08:10 PM
he'd make a wonderful fascist, he just doesn't know it yet.

Keith
15th May 10, 09:38 PM
he'd make a wonderful fascist, he just doesn't know it yet.
Those make the best kind

Lebell
16th May 10, 05:53 AM
okay i've waited long enough for someone else to bring it up and nobody did.
you know what really really bothers me?

with all these talk about democratic rights, freedom of speech etc.
watch the video again, and now don't look at any screaming muslims, but to the people who sit quietly in the room.
their bodylanguage, their expressions.

they're whole attitude seems to say: dont look at me, im not really here.

why did nobody stand up and say: oi you, ive come to hear a lecture, how about you shut the fuck up and sit down???

all this left elitist pseudo intellectuals there, and nobody has the balls to stand up.
this is why we're doomed.
the majority is silent, insecure and doesnt know how to respond to bullies.
1930ies europe anyone?

it is exactly like it.
muslims who are a relative small minority forcing their will, like the nazis did.
muslims pretending to be martyrs/victims, just like the nazi's did. (go read the lyrics to horst wessel lied)

and everybody sits there and lets it happen.

hey, we should give them sudetenland, maybe that will bring peace for our time?

right?

bob
16th May 10, 05:56 AM
Maybe the interruption was the only thing that kept them awake?

Lebell
16th May 10, 06:06 AM
im beyong wishfull thinking, my little australian friend.

danno
16th May 10, 06:18 AM
when you have a bunch of people in a room going crazy, yeah, the average person is just going to sit there and try to be invisible.

Lebell
16th May 10, 06:37 AM
they didnt go crazy.
tey're just a bunch of idiots who try to impose their will to a majority.
nobody put a gun to their head and made them sit in that auditorium.

im certainly no hero, but i can assure you i'd give them a piece of my mind.
i've done that before with screaming fanatics of all ideologies, i cant stand bullies.

jkdbuck76
17th May 10, 08:48 PM
Could be they were frightened. Or unable to assess the situation. The video is a sociologist major's (aka me) wet dream.

Ajamil
17th May 10, 11:59 PM
okay i've waited long enough for someone else to bring it up and nobody did.
you know what really really bothers me?

with all these talk about democratic rights, freedom of speech etc.
watch the video again, and now don't look at any screaming muslims, but to the people who sit quietly in the room.
their bodylanguage, their expressions.
I mentioned the Swedish Amber Lamps! For someone trying to uncover the truth, you aren't very observant. Or was "the truth" what you call your sexual organs? That makes a lot of sense - that everything you do is to get people to uncover "the truth."

Lebell
18th May 10, 04:06 AM
arjuna, i do not understand any american cyberslang, can you understand that?
what the hell is a amper lamps?

Doritosaurus Chex
18th May 10, 07:16 AM
Watch the girl with the earphones in the background.

zWoE__ICkkc


Watch this to watch her closely.

JN2Q6yiQ2VI

Bring a. Bring a amber lamps.

Zendetta
18th May 10, 09:34 AM
Stupid Meme is Stupid.

I actually saw Epic Beard Man two weeks ago.

Lebell
18th May 10, 10:19 AM
you just think you did.
every old white guy is growing his beard now so they wont get hassled by gangstas!
lolol

jkdbuck76
18th May 10, 11:28 AM
Stupid Meme is Stupid.

I actually saw Epic Beard Man two weeks ago.

How tall is he?

Phrost
18th May 10, 11:54 AM
Considering his very vocal defence of parts of it, one would hope that he has. Considering some of his views on it, I have my doubts.

Which specific view is in conflict with the Constitution here?

Or are you referencing Article 97: Foreign Relations with Arabian Tribesmen*

(The closest thing you could even come up with would be the document which reflects our first interaction with Arab/Muslim culture: the Treaty of Tripoli.)


*Which doesn't fucking exist.

Cullion
18th May 10, 12:50 PM
It's clear that Arab culture is incompatible with European.

So why do you guys keep importing it?

Partly because our political elites think they can stave off the economic crisis expected in our state pension systems from baby-boom demographics by importing young workers, and partly because our corporate elite like to keep to keep introducing new entrants to the labour market to compete wages down, whilst socialising the cost of importing the new Labour.

That's a thin tier at the top. Most people who agree with it would just reel off something retarded about racism that school or TV had fed to them.

Lebell
18th May 10, 04:23 PM
yeah, because when you think of it, its not so bad to kill people of in gascambers.
i mean me personal, i know enough people i like to see die horribly for 5 long minutes, in fact i know so many of those bastards i could fill 3 auschwitsches.

danno
18th May 10, 07:30 PM
i don't have a problem with deciding to allow less immigrants in.

Lebell
19th May 10, 03:29 AM
im not talking bout immigrants, im talking about people who annoy me.
i've got quite a shitload of friends from all over the world.
some are actually *GASP* negroes!
and also one of my closest friends is a muslim, but nobody's perfect, right?

nifoc
19th May 10, 04:15 AM
Which specific view is in conflict with the Constitution here?

Or are you referencing Article 97: Foreign Relations with Arabian Tribesmen*

(The closest thing you could even come up with would be the document which reflects our first interaction with Arab/Muslim culture: the Treaty of Tripoli.)


*Which doesn't fucking exist.
You mean other than the part where you either want to refuse sanctuary to refugees, or you want to refuse them the right to keep their cultural views even within a democratic society?

Those are the only two ways to keep arab culture away, and neither seems to be in line with democratic values, even those espoused by your constitution.

Does your constitution give you the right anywhere to exile people that do not agree with your values?

Tonuzaba
19th May 10, 04:19 AM
...Does your constitution give you the right anywhere to exile people that do not agree with your values? As one of the Greats here on Bullshido has said before:
it's not Nazism if we deport all but the young and good looking ladies, right?

nifoc
19th May 10, 04:26 AM
i don't have a problem with deciding to allow less immigrants in.
That is another question altogether. As it stands in Sweden, our Department of Immigration is massively underfunded for the amount of work that it is expected to perform. This means that all of the cases put before them take a massive amount of time, and as a result the refugees are unable to get a job thus costing the government money. Officially a case is supposed to take somewhere around six months, but it is often up to two years before a person knows wether he has recieved sanctuary.

Part of the problem stems from a lack of passports, but most of it is due to the amount of refugees per case officer.

I would be for a reduction in the number of people that we don't simply send on, until we can make the system more effective.

I assume the same problem exists in many european countries.