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OZZ
11th May 10, 06:37 PM
Well, it looks like Kimbo's chance at becoming a UFC star are done for good.
After a somewhat poor showing on TUF and a loss this past weekend , Kimbo was let go by the UFC and Dana White . True, he is good for ratings, but Dana white just doesn't think he has it in him to be a contender, apparently.
I have to say, I think the guy carried himself with class during his run at a pro career.He was always polite and gracious, I think the whole experience was humbling for him as it caused to him to realize the sort of dedication and athleticism that is involved in becoming a bona fide professional fighter as opposed to a street brawler.
Cardio is often the hardest thing for guys like this to get up to snuff.He's not a young man and likely didn't lead the healthiest of lifestyles up until the past couple of years..shit, how well could you expect the guy to do at 36?
I hope he keeps out of trouble and maintains the newer, more positive image he has created for himself. Best of luck to him.

Sun May 09, 2010 1:57 am EDT

Kimbo's UFC run is done
By Steve Cofield

UFC president Dana White laid down the challenge to Internet phenom Kimbo Slice and the street fighter accepted it. Kimbo made it through his stint on Season 10 of "The Ultimate Fighter" and got two more fights with the promotion.

Slice went 1-1 in the UFC after the reality show, including a bad loss Saturday night at UFC 113 against Matt Mitrione. The fight was so one-sided, the UFC president decided to give Kimbo, 36, his pink slip.

"That's probably Kimbo's last fight in the UFC," White said. "Listen, Kimbo made it farther than I thought he would."

As White was exiting the press conference for a postfight television interview, he was asked one more time about Kimbo's future. A reporter pushed him on the "probably" in his original Kimbo quote. White then confirmed definitively that Slice was gone.

Unlike some cases where other high-profile fighters were sent packing, White sounded genuinely disappointed to fire him.

"I didn't know Kimbo, I just knew what I saw," White said of his previous pro MMA fights and his work on YouTube. "The first time I ever met him I said, 'This is going to be an interesting meeting with the [expletive] I've said about him over the years.'"

When Slice was the centerpiece of CBS's EliteXC promotion, his status drove White nuts. He slammed and bad-mouthed Kimbo, saying the only way he'd make it to the UFC was to take part in the UFC's prospect show on Spike. That was a bitter pill to swallow for a guy who had earned between $250,000-$500,000 in each of four EliteXC fights.

Slice and his handlers were not combative. They just wanted the fighter to get a chance at legitimacy.

"He came in. He couldn't be a nicer guy. He took things serious, trained and went after it," White said. "His first fight wasn't the YouTube fights you saw. He won that fight [against Houston Alexander on the TUF 10 finale]. He deserved another fight in the UFC and he lost. Got nothing but respect for Kimbo and I like him as a person. And I think he's carried himself really well."

Ajamil
11th May 10, 06:44 PM
Funny, I'm pretty sure that's a stylized mushroom cloud in the background, not a glove-sportin bull.

I hope he can do something with his notoriety. Motivational speaker or charity events or if he wants to be a bit more self-centered an acting career or reality show.

I haven't seen 113 yet. I was mildly interested to see how he does. Ahh well, anything else good on the card?

HappyOldGuy
11th May 10, 07:44 PM
I've always thought Kimbo came off classy even in his strikeforce days. But that was really a "loser leaves the UFC" fight this last time. It is going to take me awhile to forgive him for not ending Mitrione's UFC career.

I wonder if we should start an off topic forum for this MMA stuff. Seems like several people here are into it.

partyboy
11th May 10, 07:46 PM
I wonder if we should start an off topic forum for this MMA stuff. Seems like several people here are into it.


www.sherdog.com

The_Beak
11th May 10, 07:47 PM
WWE in 5... 4... 3...

(why is this not in bullshido?)

Steve
11th May 10, 11:14 PM
I wonder if we should start an off topic forum for this MMA stuff. Seems like several people here are into it.

An off topic forum in the off topic board? I think not. This would be one of the threads that would get moved or merged over to Bullshido after the Grand Merger happens.

That being said, I don't mind the odd MMA/martial arts thread showing up. It at least keeps the SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS forum active.

SoulMechanic
11th May 10, 11:22 PM
Kimbo=big ol' lemon that Shaw picked and White capitalized on by making all the lemon aid he could.

Yiktin Voxbane
12th May 10, 02:20 AM
I recall one pundit uttering the phrase ..

"When Kimbo fights , he sets MMA back 5 years"

jubei33
12th May 10, 03:58 AM
my money is on "dramatic return to the octagon after humbling defeat."

bob
12th May 10, 04:06 AM
The guy's got work for life really. There will always be a market for people to watch huge angry-but-athletic-looking black men being beaten up by pudgy white guys.

Ajamil
12th May 10, 04:55 AM
Kimbo=big ol' lemon that Shaw picked and White capitalized on by making all the lemon aid he could.When the "lemon" is someone who lived on the streets and made money in illegal fights and most likely had lots of blood contact, I don't think you want any lemon AIDS.

OZZ
12th May 10, 11:28 AM
I like the idea of him being a motivational speaker..but I think he's probably got some other options that would see him cash in on his fame.

Spade: The Real Snake
12th May 10, 11:40 AM
When the "lemon" is someone who lived on the streets and made money in illegal fights and most likely had lots of blood contact, I don't think you want any lemon AIDS.

Dude had a ride to University of Miami.........



anyhow, I agree with HOG the guy always carried himself well during Stikeforce and TUF, however the guy just cannot or refuses to capitalize on the training opportunities made available to him. The guy is cousin to Rhadi Ferguson, trained under Bas and had Rampage's TUF trainers.

KO'd N DOA
12th May 10, 01:31 PM
The problem that I am wrestling with, is that that with his departure...the great unanswered questions remain. Can some undiscovered guy from the intenet fights actually fight in MMA?

I had such high hopes for him, as everyone knows some tough guy from back home, or at school that with the right training could have made it as a fighter.
The answere is for the most part a resounding - no. They couldn't. Kimbo could have knocked them out, and he couldn't make it.

Commodore Pipes
12th May 10, 01:38 PM
....That sounds like it is answered, then.

Feryk
12th May 10, 02:02 PM
Kimbo is a little old to retrain, but hell, I liked the guy. I was pulling for him.

If I were him, I'd spend a couple of YEARS working on conditioning and grappling. Maybe he can do it, maybe he can't. He just had too much to catch up on.

But how cool would it be to see Kimbo walk to the ring in a couple of years with a BJJ Blue belt around his waist?

Spade: The Real Snake
12th May 10, 03:13 PM
Kimbo is a little old to retrain, but hell, I liked the guy. I was pulling for him.

If I were him, I'd spend a couple of YEARS working on conditioning and grappling. Maybe he can do it, maybe he can't. He just had too much to catch up on.

But how cool would it be to see Kimbo walk to the ring in a couple of years with a BJJ Blue belt around his waist?

Guy has to want it and be willing to retool up his game.

I read that after that first CBS Strikeforce match against Thompson, Bas got pissed at Kimbo because all his training time went out the window and he didn't follow Bas' gameplan. Kimbo fell back on the concept that he had heavy hands and could KTFO anyone.

billy sol hurok
12th May 10, 03:21 PM
It is going to take me awhile to forgive him for not ending Mitrione's UFC career.
Yep.

Though as you say, he did comport himself pretty well amidst the douchery on the show.


This would be one of the threads that would get moved or merged over to Bullshido after the Grand Merger happens.
Sez the alter boy of the Reunification Church . . . or maybe we should just call you Lucky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_%28Waiting_for_Godot%29)?

KO'd N DOA
12th May 10, 03:51 PM
....That sounds like it is answered, then.

But I don't want it to be answered... It set up hours of discussion that could get people up of the couch and into the backyard. It was an awesome question.

mrblackmagic
12th May 10, 03:54 PM
It's not like he's retiring from the sport. He'll probably just go fight in some small orgs around Florida and maybe a freakshow fight in Japan.

EuropIan
12th May 10, 03:55 PM
I would love to see him hit the freakshow circuit.

bob
12th May 10, 03:57 PM
Kimbo vs. Sapp! You know you want it.

OZZ
12th May 10, 03:59 PM
Kimbo is a little old to retrain, but hell, I liked the guy. I was pulling for him.

If I were him, I'd spend a couple of YEARS working on conditioning and grappling. Maybe he can do it, maybe he can't. He just had too much to catch up on.

But how cool would it be to see Kimbo walk to the ring in a couple of years with a BJJ Blue belt around his waist?

Exactly right..it takes YEARS to get a good ground game, man. Kimbo didn't even have a decent wrestling background to fall back on.
At 36, its doubtful he could pull it off now.But you never know..

bob
12th May 10, 04:00 PM
Plus there's the whole 'not having a chin worthy of a C level lightweight and no genuine hitting power' thing.

KO'd N DOA
12th May 10, 04:21 PM
I couldn't care less about Kimbo himself. The important question is much much bigger. It revolves around what Kimbo represents.

Since the beginning of time men have talked about the "what ifs". All of us have met people, tough people, and in the back of your mind you argue, he is good, but with training could he have been awesome. What if...

But now the...there is a guy who lives in the forest cutting lumber by hand and can bend horseshoes, or there is this tough old miner who always knocked people out...one punch. Never lost a fight..

If only THEY - the undiscovered natural talent - had a bit of training...I think he could have beat <fill in blankMMA star>....

Now that activity that has fueled argument where ever men congregate to tell tales, some smart ass punk will say.
"Look on my computer at this huge black guy....he would kill your tough guy, and even with training he got whooped."

Sad KO'd.

EuropIan
12th May 10, 04:38 PM
didn't he beat up like one guy in a mma match?

Or was he a can?

HappyOldGuy
12th May 10, 04:45 PM
A couple. I wouldn't quite say they had campbells tat's on their asses, but they were definetely wearing red and white stripes.

OZZ
12th May 10, 04:49 PM
I couldn't care less about Kimbo himself. The important question is much much bigger. It revolves around what Kimbo represents.

Since the beginning of time men have talked about the "what ifs". All of us have met people, tough people, and in the back of your mind you argue, he is good, but with training could he have been awesome. What if...

But now the...there is a guy who lives in the forest cutting lumber by hand and can bend horseshoes, or there is this tough old miner who always knocked people out...one punch. Never lost a fight..

If only THEY - the undiscovered natural talent - had a bit of training...I think he could have beat <fill in blankMMA star>....

Now that activity that has fueled argument where ever men congregate to tell tales, some smart ass punk will say.
"Look on my computer at this huge black guy....he would kill your tough guy, and even with training he got whooped."

Sad KO'd.

Yes, you speak a truth.
Years ago when I ran with the wild boys we used to hold 'cornfield fights', basically underground brawls between biker types and bouncers, beer-league hockey players and truckers..you know what I mean.
Anyways, there was guy named Barry 'Bear' McKewon who had that sort of rep.Fucking huge guy, 6'3 240 or so with a a big chest and back.Tough as nails..anyways, somebody sponsored him so he could train full time back when the UFC first came out.From what I hear, he was doing really well with his training (he had already boxed and done a BB in Karate, also wrestled)and was getting ready to take the dive into MMA - then he got killed in a car crash up near Parry Sound on his way back from a fishing trip.
That was our Kimbo..who knows what could have been?Maybe the same thing, only different.

Commodore Pipes
12th May 10, 05:00 PM
This would make a great thread - "The most ridiculous story of your local bad ass"

SoulMechanic
12th May 10, 05:06 PM
But dudes, how can you say Kimbo aint got no ground game. He done choked out Ray Mercer!!
nZWQn-Rvg-U

But to be serious folks, Kimbo is gonna be gunning for Minowaman in this years Dream SuperHulk tournament.

Ajamil
12th May 10, 06:00 PM
Just watched the fight. It was almost sad to see a tired Mitrione kinda flump his arms down on an unmoving Slice. Ref should've ended the fight 30 sec earlier.

OZZ
12th May 10, 09:53 PM
I hope he keeps a positive image, no matter what he ends up doing...

Feryk
13th May 10, 02:01 PM
If we are talking freakshow circuit...

I'd pay to see Kimbo vs. Tyson. For real.

Commodore Pipes
13th May 10, 02:02 PM
Jesus, why? You want to see a real-life murder?

Feryk
13th May 10, 02:03 PM
You think Tyson would kill him?

Commodore Pipes
13th May 10, 02:10 PM
You think Tyson would kill him?

Gosh my post sounded aggressive. Sorry.

Anyway, the Tyson in my mind is Hungry Tyson. I forgot about him just sitting down and giving up to McBride. But still, he was game for Danny Williams, even though he allegedly had one leg. Maybe 'kill' is too strong, but I think that Tyson could beat him pretty easily if he had any sort of will to fight. I guess that's the question, for me.

Feryk
13th May 10, 02:13 PM
Tyson is way washed up, Kimbo has been training seriously for a few years now. Kimbo has heavy hands, Iron Mike is the personification of Knock Out Artist. This fight will stay standing, so I think it would be interesting. Quick, either way it goes, but interesting.

Commodore Pipes
13th May 10, 02:15 PM
We could get that fight is we told Tyson that Kimbo threatened his pigeons.

SoulMechanic
13th May 10, 04:07 PM
Im sorry to have to be the one to break it to you guys. KIMBO FUCKING SUCKS. He was never good. He is just some bullshit mma marketing scheme that has run its course. You guys want a hungry fighter that comes from a shitty poverty stricken background and no formal ma training? Take Brett Rogers, before he was coming closer to beating Fedor's ass with the nasty jab and the ground n pound he was working in a fucking tire store and living in a one bedroom apartment with a wife and kids. Name one legit motherfucker that Kimbo has ever beat? That was a trick question because you cant. Brett's beat a former UFC champion(andre arlovski) and for you hanging off Kimbos nutts, Brett even beat that big goofy can James Thompson.

You know what, how about Lyle Beerbohm? That fucker is undefeated, finishes fights and before mma he was a hardcore methamphetamine addict doing a nice sized stint in the penitentiary. That dude decided to clean up his act and went straight into an mma gym after his release from prison.

Feryk
13th May 10, 04:55 PM
Never heard of Lyle Beerbohm. UFC guy or somewhere else?

SoulMechanic
13th May 10, 05:06 PM
Strikeforce. He's fighting Vitor Ribeiro tomorrow night on the "Heavy Artillery" card.
http://www.mmalinker.com/wiki/index.php/Lyle_Beerbohm

Feryk
13th May 10, 05:21 PM
Looks like that could be an excellent scrap. Points to you for having an encyclopedic knowledge of MMA.

Spade: The Real Snake
13th May 10, 05:47 PM
Looks like that could be an excellent scrap. Points to you for having an encyclopedic knowledge of MMA.

He just watches for the outfits

Cullion
13th May 10, 06:53 PM
I'm sorry to break the 'raarrrh! black dude with a crazy beard!' mythology but Kimbo went to college on an atheletics scholarship and studied criminology. He'd also wrestled and trained in boxing gyms well before we saw him on the 'net. He's not the savage-trained-as-gladiator that people want him to be.

Spade: The Real Snake
13th May 10, 06:56 PM
I'm sorry to break the 'raarrrh! black dude with a crazy beard!' mythology but Kimbo went to college on an atheletics scholarship (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1546012&postcount=13) and studied criminology. He'd also wrestled and trained in boxing gyms well before we saw him on the 'net.
Brazil, you say?

Cullion
13th May 10, 06:58 PM
Yeah, Brazil.

And his 'living on the streets' was 3 or 4 weeks living out of his SUV after his house got destroyed in a hurricane.

Kein Haar
13th May 10, 08:14 PM
off Kimbos nutts, Brett even beat that big goofy can James Thompson.

You know what, how about Lyle Beerbohm? That fucker is undefeated, finishes fights and before mma he was a hardcore methamphetamine addict doing a nice sized stint in the penitentiary. That dude decided to clean up his act and went straight into an mma gym after his release from prison.

So, he's really bucking the trend of people becoming progressivly MORE douchier as they ingest more and more MMA jizz.

SoulMechanic
13th May 10, 08:18 PM
Not sure I follow, care to elaborate?

Kein Haar
13th May 10, 08:39 PM
Legend has it, back ye olden days, boxers came from shit, and the sweet science elevated them into discipline and focus and possibly even into a new income bracket. In any case, there was less time for shenanigans and tobacco habits.

Now-a-days, many a comparitively middle class seedling gets into MMA, and the existing shitty parts of the personality are magnified. Somehow there is plenty of time for coke and steroids.

It's a venue for white kids to work around their physical shortcomings...you know...by pulling guard and stuff.

Meanwhile, the actually athletic kids on the basketball courts and footballs fields could still whoop they ass, if they bothered to learn how to ground-n-pound...which they don't....cuz they are far less douchy and insecure.

HappyOldGuy
13th May 10, 10:09 PM
Legend has it

The key bit.

SoulMechanic
13th May 10, 11:04 PM
How Ironic that I read your bullshit post after I just watched Joe Warren, the 2006 Pan-Am and world greco roman champion whoop some ass in an mma fight. What about all the division I NCAA a champions and all American wrestlers excelling in MMA, are they spoiled middle class white guys douches too? Also how the fuck can you say that Football players are not as likely to juice or have substance abuse problems then mma fighters?. . . . LOL, nice troll fuckhead.

Kein Haar
14th May 10, 02:38 AM
The key bit.

Jack Dempsey was a hobo!

Kein Haar
14th May 10, 02:49 AM
How Ironic that I read your bullshit post after I just watched Joe Warren, the 2006 Pan-Am and world greco roman champion whoop some ass in an mma fight. What about all the division I NCAA a champions and all American wrestlers excelling in MMA, are they spoiled middle class white guys douches too? Also how the fuck can you say that Football players are not as likely to juice or have substance abuse problems then mma fighters?. . . . LOL, nice troll fuckhead.

Now, let's not miss the point by highlighting Joe Warren, the 2006 Pan-Am and world greco roman champion whooping some ass in an mma fight, when we're talking about the particular culture of douche which MMA attracts.

White boys have struggled to find their place in professional combat sports for a long, long time.

As soon as the Hedgehogeys of the would could start pulling guard on unsuspecting goofballs, they DID start pulling guard on unsuspecting goofballs.

You know it, I know it.

WEEE! LOOK HOW EASY IT IS TO CIRCUMVENT OVER PHYSICAL SUPERIORITY, AS LONG AS THE OTHER GUY DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE!

Wrestlers have been doing their own thing for a long time, so that's just kind of a red herring.

MMA white-boy douche culture is what we're talking about. Not wrestling cross-overs.

How many nazi/quasi-nazi assholes are there in boxing? Not many. Why? Cuz they get KTFO and cut too easily. Always have been, always will be.

There is nothing I love more than seeing more and more non-white (especially black) fighters go for loooong streaks of non-defeat. I go to Buffalo Wild Wings just to see the disappointment on some of douche white-boy faces when Whitey McWhiteman gets destroyed by Blacky McBlackerson, in sport which once seemed to promise a niche for douche white kids with "tribal" ink.

Nothing I love more than seeing Chuck Liddells, Chris Lebens, and Keith Jardines get wtfpwnt. Nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1K6NZNVuHc&feature=fvst

There needs to be an inner-city reach-out program for all the gifted athletes who are all banking on a basketball scholarship or some shit. They need to get into MMA and remind the whiteman of his marginal place in professional athletics, i.e. ice dancing, golf, horsemanship and other sports involving expensive padding or equipment, ice time, and/or a long and difficult commute for mommy and daddy.

SoulMechanic
14th May 10, 03:05 AM
With the proper elaborations I, uhh, well. I agree with you 110% on the whole sloppy joe eating white trash tapout phenomenon.


Now just give more detail on the whole, "footballers & ballers have no time for drugs," bit.

Kein Haar
14th May 10, 03:15 AM
I said my romanticized boxers of yore didn't poison themselves with such things.

I said the athletic beasts of high school tend toward the money sports, like football and basketball.

I never said foot/basket-ball people refrain from roids and intoxicants. They don't.

Cullion
14th May 10, 03:30 AM
I don't agree with Keinhaar's concept of African general athletic superiority. Black guys dominate heavyweight boxing, but they don't dominate the lighter weights in boxing. Never have. Look at the current boxing champions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_world_boxing_champions#Super_light weight.2C_Junior_welterweight_.28140_lb.2C_63.5_kg .29

Below middle weight there are a lot of Mexicans, Europeans and Asians. Joe Calzaghe only recently retired at last year in his late 30s and he was WBO undefeated WBO Super Middleweight champ for a decade.

Skinny white guys do just fine against skinny black guys. And big white guys do fine against big black guys when they're running in low gear (i.e. strongman type stuff).

There's no reason to assume that the glistening african warriors of his dreams would dominate the lighter weights in MMA even if they all gave up on football and basketball and started training for it today.

Kein Haar
14th May 10, 03:31 AM
White boys dominate certain things BY DEFAULT ONLY.

See: ice dancing.

That's not cuz of superior ankle nimbleness (or what have you).

Cullion
14th May 10, 03:48 AM
Are you suggesting that Joe Calzaghe retired 46-0 by default ? Black doodz not interested in anything below light heavyweight ?

I understand your point about heavyweight boxing.

Kein Haar
14th May 10, 03:50 AM
Correct.

You don't pwn yourself very often, but when you do....

Cullion
14th May 10, 03:54 AM
Black guys do compete at those weights though, lots of them. They just get beaten by italians, irishmen and mexicans way more often than they do at the heavier weights.

Are you saying that it's only the black guys who suck who compete at those weights ?

bob
14th May 10, 04:37 AM
Floyd Mayweather is far and away the best boxer at lighter weights for decades. Before him Ray Leonard was.

Cullion
14th May 10, 06:36 AM
That's just one guy. The title slots in the lighter weights are full of mexicans, asians and europeans.

bob
14th May 10, 07:37 AM
That's because there's no money in it.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th May 10, 08:24 AM
Jack Johnson liked white wimminz!

Spade: The Real Snake
14th May 10, 08:30 AM
I don't agree with Keinhaar's concept of African general athletic superiority. Black guys dominate heavyweight boxing, but they don't dominate the lighter weights in boxing. Never have. Look at the current boxing champions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_world_boxing_champions#Super_light weight.2C_Junior_welterweight_.28140_lb.2C_63.5_kg .29

Below middle weight there are a lot of Mexicans, Europeans and Asians. Joe Calzaghe only recently retired at last year in his late 30s and he was WBO undefeated WBO Super Middleweight champ for a decade.

Skinny white guys do just fine against skinny black guys. And big white guys do fine against big black guys when they're running in low gear (i.e. strongman type stuff).

There's no reason to assume that the glistening african warriors of his dreams would dominate the lighter weights in MMA even if they all gave up on football and basketball and started training for it today.

I would agree with the Latins dominating at jr. welter/lightweight to maybe bantam and then the asians owning straweight

Cullion
14th May 10, 09:08 AM
That's because there's no money in it.

Compared to all the other lucrative career opportunities in professional sports for short, lightly built black guys ?

Think this through.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th May 10, 09:11 AM
Jockeys

Cullion
14th May 10, 09:52 AM
You mean like in the Outkast video ? Good point!

Vieux Normand
14th May 10, 12:21 PM
Skinny white guys do just fine against skinny black guys. And big white guys do fine against big black guys when they're running in low gear (i.e. strongman type stuff).

You're absolutely *cough.carwinlesnarfedor.cough* right.

Big whitey jus' don' cut it.

OZZ
14th May 10, 12:27 PM
Cullion- thanks for dispelling the Kimbo myth.I had no idea he was University educated.

Cullion
14th May 10, 12:33 PM
He didn't finish his degree, but there's a definite marketing angle of 'wooah! look at the big black savage from t3h streets! this man is kk--razzzy!' going on, and it's not real.

Cullion
14th May 10, 12:36 PM
You're absolutely *cough.carwinlesnarfedor.cough* right.

Big whitey jus' don' cut it.

I think it might have something to do with vascularity. IIRC people of west-african descent tend to have better vascularity and it might help stop their muscles turning to molasses after the first round of high-speed activity.

Summary: I think the average white guy gets slowed down by extra muscle mass more than the average african american does, but this only matters for the big guys with a lot of muscle.

HappyOldGuy
14th May 10, 12:38 PM
He didn't finish his degree, but there's a definite marketing angle of 'wooah! look at the big black savage from t3h streets! this man is kk--razzzy!' going on, and it's not real.
No, it's more like, "look at the smart decently well educated scary looking black guy who is milking it all the way to the bank." I give him props because instead of coasting along fighting tomato cans or going into pro wrestling, he decided to actually make a go against legit opponents.

Cullion, I would veer away from talking about averages. When you are talking about pro athletes, you are talking about pre selecting for a very narrow slice of folks with specific genes that will vary by sport and even position.

Cullion
14th May 10, 12:41 PM
Meanwhile, the actually athletic kids on the basketball courts and footballs fields could still whoop they ass, if they bothered to learn how to ground-n-pound...which they don't....cuz they are far less douchy and insecure.

This part is true though.

Cullion
14th May 10, 12:45 PM
Cullion, I would veer away from talking about averages. When you are talking about pro athletes, you are talking about pre selecting for a very narrow slice of folks with specific genes that will vary by sport and even position.

Yes I know, but surely the trend towards certain ancestries doing well in certain sports is pretty clear ?

People of west-African ancestry do pretty much rule at heavyweight boxing and sprinting, and it's not because of some kind of bias towards picking black guys.

The vascularity thing's just an idea as to why they're doing so well in those specific areas, it's not like I'm planning to resurrect SS skull measurements and blood tests for college admission.

HappyOldGuy
14th May 10, 01:02 PM
Yes I know, but surely the trend towards certain ancestries doing well in certain sports is pretty clear ?


Ancestries yeah, but I wouldn't sign off on anything as broad as race. Frex, the worlds top marathoners are almost all descended from one very small isolated population with a specific gene for oxygen efficiency. Because human beings have been in Africa the longest, Africa has by far the greatest genetic diversity.

Cullion
14th May 10, 01:09 PM
look at the smart decently well educated scary looking black guy who is milking it all the way to the bank.

I don't think most people know that though. I think most people think he's like a BA Baraccus who sold his bling for cocaine.


Ancestries yeah, but I wouldn't sign off on anything as broad as race. Frex, the worlds top marathoners are almost all descended from one very small isolated population with a specific gene for oxygen efficiency. Because human beings have been in Africa the longest, Africa has by far the greatest genetic diversity.

I thought the vascularity thing was pretty widespread in west africans. Is it that the African American boxers and sprinters I see actually take their African ancestry from a fairly small group ?

HappyOldGuy
14th May 10, 01:19 PM
I thought the vascularity thing was pretty widespread in west africans. Is it that the African American boxers and sprinters I see actually take their African ancestry from a fairly small group ?

I only know about the marathon gene in any detail. I know there are others. The point though is to recognize that "general athleticism" is pretty much a myth, and tying it to race is an even bigger mistake. It's always about tradeoffs. Fast twitch versus slow, mass versus efficiency, etc.

Cullion
14th May 10, 01:22 PM
I agreed that 'general atheleticism' and 'black people are all generally atheletic' was a myth from the start, I just didn't think that the vascularity gene was limited to one tribe or small group of villages in West Africa.

OZZ
14th May 10, 02:02 PM
African Americans have thicker craniums than Anglos do ( not just a myth , it has been scientifically verified)..I am sure this has something do to with their supremacy in Boxing.

Cullion
14th May 10, 02:05 PM
Hmm.. The shock to the brain in boxing is caused by the brain shaking around inside the skull fluid AIUI. I don't see how a thicker shell of fairly rigid material would make much difference to that. It would probably protect you against fractures if you took a really hard impact though.

OZZ
14th May 10, 02:32 PM
Good point...its a theory that's been put out there, though.

Kein Haar
14th May 10, 02:51 PM
Possibly less room to bounce around.

They sure as hell don't cut as easily though.

Not as much bone in the noses either.

bob
14th May 10, 04:11 PM
There was a recent study on African vs European sprinters and fast twitch muscle fibers. Guess who had the most?

No, it was whitey. The Africans, it was speculated, had better biomechanics due to limb length and didn't need as much reliance on fast twitch muscle to run fast.

SoulMechanic
14th May 10, 06:45 PM
Until proven otherwise I totally disagree with Kein that mma would and will be dominated by black folk. In mma dudes like Anderson are the exception, not the rule. I could make an argument about GSP being being pound for pound better then Anderson. Make the same claim with Fedor (hes beat a fuckton of black dudes). In my opinion mma has such a vast and varied number of interchangeable skill sets that it allows for a greater degree of unpredictability in outcome then boxing. Look at the Koscheck vs. Daily fight. Daily is an amazing striker, has a deadly left hook and super heavy hands. He was dumped on his fucking head and smothered because his lack of being able to stuff the takedown from Kos. I think the beauty of mma is the fact its Darwin happening before your eyes. Adapt or die. GSP didn't start his career as an amazing wrestler. Now I have read from credible sources he is close to Olympic caliber now. Now take a wrestler like Cain Velasquez, he defenitly did not start out his career with the superior quality striking he uses for the W in most of his recent matches.

You indeed have a right to your opinion Kein, but in this case I would say it is incorrect. Or at the very lease a premature and biased prediction.
It will be interesting to see how Ricardo Mayorga and James Toney fair in their transition from boxing to mma. Lets see if James Toney can ktfo Randy Couture's equally old white ass.

As for your comment on opening some sort of inner city training facility for impoverished inner city athelets they already have those popping up. The best example would be Lloyd Irvin. He has schools set up in D.C., Baltimore and many other other poor urban areas. Here is a good interview with one of his fighters, Muhsin Corbbrey
.http://www.mmaforreal.com/2009/5/25/885785/mma-for-real-exclusive-interview

Lloyd Irvin's wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Irvin

Cullion
14th May 10, 06:54 PM
There was a recent study on African vs European sprinters and fast twitch muscle fibers. Guess who had the most?

No, it was whitey. The Africans, it was speculated, had better biomechanics due to limb length and didn't need as much reliance on fast twitch muscle to run fast.

Meh, scandanavians have pretty long limbs. They don't have as much vasculation for lactate clearance as black guys though, because in a srs cold climate too much blood supply in the surface muscle makes you freeze to death quicker.

I don't remember the last time I saw a lean, long-limbed swede ruining black guys' shit in a sprinting contest.

SoulMechanic
14th May 10, 06:59 PM
Joachim Hanson has ruined many people of all colors and creeds shit in mma. Martin Kampmann has as well. Tough Scando's but I doubt they can burn as at the 100 meter.

bob
14th May 10, 07:14 PM
Lactate clearance really isn't going to be a factor over 100m.

Cullion
14th May 10, 07:15 PM
Well, that's what I'm saying.

Okay, that's sports dealt with.

Keinhaar, how do you feel about African American scientific achievement?

Cullion
14th May 10, 07:16 PM
Lactate clearance really isn't going to be a factor over 100m.

No, but it absolutely is a factor in how much 'sprint' training one can fit into a given session with coach before pussing out.

bob
14th May 10, 07:19 PM
Maybe a little. Sprinters generally have very long recovery times between efforts anyway.

Cullion
14th May 10, 07:37 PM
We've got to come up with some explanation why poeple of west african ancestry do better in sprint events.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th May 10, 07:46 PM
We've got to come up with some explanation why poeple of west african ancestry do better in sprint events.

Jimmy the Greek had one.

bob
14th May 10, 07:59 PM
We've got to come up with some explanation why poeple of west african ancestry do better in sprint events.

There won't be one explanation. It will be a combination of anthropometrics, physiology and certain other heritable and social factors (for instance the African populations of the Americas almost all came from a relatively small population base, who by design and accident were better at certain physical abilities. Over the years they were specifically bred for physical aptitude).

As for boxing, well I'd attribute a much larger slice of that to social factors. For instance, Floyd Mayweather is a great boxer. A proportion of this may have to do with his African descent. A much greater proportion is probably due to him being the son of a great boxer and great boxing trainer and having trained since the age of 2.

Aside from that, the common factor you're going to find in almost all great boxers is socio-economic status. Getting punched in the head repeatedly for a living is just never going to be a great option if you're a middle class kid with alternatives, even if you happen to be good at it.

Kein Haar
15th May 10, 07:46 AM
Until proven otherwise I totally disagree with Kein that mma would and will be dominated by black folk. In mma dudes like Anderson are the exception, not the rule. I could make an argument about GSP being being pound for pound better then Anderson. Make the same claim with Fedor (hes beat a fuckton of black dudes). In my opinion mma has such a vast and varied number of interchangeable skill sets that it allows for a greater degree of unpredictability in outcome then boxing. Look at the Koscheck vs. Daily fight. Daily is an amazing striker, has a deadly left hook and super heavy hands. He was dumped on his fucking head and smothered because his lack of being able to stuff the takedown from Kos. I think the beauty of mma is the fact its Darwin happening before your eyes. Adapt or die. GSP didn't start his career as an amazing wrestler. Now I have read from credible sources he is close to Olympic caliber now. Now take a wrestler like Cain Velasquez, he defenitly did not start out his career with the superior quality striking he uses for the W in most of his recent matches.

You indeed have a right to your opinion Kein, but in this case I would say it is incorrect. Or at the very lease a premature and biased prediction.
It will be interesting to see how Ricardo Mayorga and James Toney fair in their transition from boxing to mma. Lets see if James Toney can ktfo Randy Couture's equally old white ass.

As for your comment on opening some sort of inner city training facility for impoverished inner city athelets they already have those popping up. The best example would be Lloyd Irvin. He has schools set up in D.C., Baltimore and many other other poor urban areas. Here is a good interview with one of his fighters, Muhsin Corbbrey
.http://www.mmaforreal.com/2009/5/25/885785/mma-for-real-exclusive-interview

Lloyd Irvin's wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Irvin


So what you're saying is, black dudes aren't as smart and can't put the pieces of multi-dimensional MMA together as well was the whiteman.

That's fine. Just wait here a minute, while I...

Where Hedgehogey at???

Kein Haar
15th May 10, 03:47 PM
Maybe a little. Sprinters generally have very long recovery times between efforts anyway.

Not by choice. That's just what happens with max efforts.

bob
15th May 10, 04:33 PM
Well yeah, I wasn't saying they were lazy, just that that was optimal.

Vieux Normand
16th May 10, 09:05 AM
So what you're saying is, black dudes aren't as smart and can't put the pieces of multi-dimensional MMA together as well was the whiteman.

Is that what was being claimed?

My impression, reading the same posting (just skimmed it, though), was that the multitude of demands in a multi-skill ruleset made individual attributes--and some luck--paramount in deciding outcomes, rather than any factors such as dermal melanin-levels and any associated socioeconomic background characteristics. If that is so, we'll notice individuals of a number of different dermal-melanin-counts in all weight-classes and levels of MMA competition...which is exactly what we find.

This is a bit different from any claim that somebody was nasty enough to opine: "This sport is too complex for that group".

SoulMechanic
16th May 10, 09:58 AM
^^^ Yup

Kein Haar
16th May 10, 03:25 PM
Vieux,

They are called "shines" because they are oily.

In boxing, this helps to glance blows off their faces.

But the energy vested for skin protection (oil, black) is that which compromises brain development.

Black babies also walk sooner and can throw spears much farther than white babies.

It's just that there is too much to think about in MMA and on the offensive line in american football.

That's exactly what Soul Mechanic is saying. Unfortunately.

ban plz.