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Steve
4th May 10, 12:33 AM
Is it more important to serve or to protect?

Kein Haar, you are the main focus of this investigation. Do you feel that one is over the other or that they might possibly be equal? Or maybe you think your "protecting" is a way of serving the public... Or your "serving" of the public is in order to protect them? I could use a bit of clarification.

In my opinion, the police are a service, they should answer to the public. But you have more than one time posted a condescending view of the public in your eyes.

Care to enlighten us?

All officers are welcomed to chime in as well.

We've had enough kracker and LHM threads to start a real one.

Kein Haar
4th May 10, 01:19 AM
Serve, definately. Problem is, people remain unedumacated as to what the limit of my authority is.

I can't go help you collect some debt from some guy.
I can't enforce a civil child custody thing.
I can't make neighbor not be rude.
I'm not a fireman, I can't just slip outta my shit and shower...so please be selective in why you need me to get especially wet and dirty.
I'm not some repository for rude teenagers.

People just need to be careful what they want police to do, cuz a lot of these same whiners (about us not doing anything) have no idea that other people may be calling about THEM; but we're not actually doing anything about it...cuz the complaint is retarded and invalid to criminal law.

There are very few people I've been able to literally protect. I've tried i.e. "Um...you have car keys, and we're here...so why don't you take advantage of our presence and ability to contain him and get out of the house before he actually beats your ass? I can hook you up with shelter if you need it."

"No, no...I'll stay here."

"Ok."

Responding back to someone who got her ass beat.

nihilist
4th May 10, 01:50 AM
Do you go out of your way to piss off ppl you don't particularly like in order to provoke a reaction that you can use as an excuse to hit them with a wonderful toy from your bat belt?

Kein Haar
4th May 10, 01:53 AM
Police comes from the Greek Polis.

Polis means to poke with a sharpened stick.

That was the anscestor of the London Metropolitan Police tactic of poking people with sharp sticks until they freaked out, at which time they would beat them with heavier wooden rods.

U.S. policing is a direct descendent of the LMP.

Due to Mississippi v. Schuckster, the sharpened stick method has been ruled cruel and unusual, so we've moved to blistering sarcasm and mother jokes.

That's what policing IS, Reese.

Duh.

nihilist
4th May 10, 02:00 AM
Whew! for a minute there I thought you were a kind, loving wonderful person.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

nihilist
4th May 10, 02:05 AM
I was going to make a joke about Schuckster having a point, but I'm glad I kept it to myself.

Vieux Normand
4th May 10, 07:16 AM
Just out of curiosity: does tasing a kid for running out onto a sports field fall under protection ('cuz of the threat posed by one teenager to a bevy of hyper-fit athletes)...or was it service?

The way he went down, it looks like he definitely got served.

Not complaining, mind you: sports fans deserve every mishap that comes their way, just on principle.

It's just kind of weird to electrocute a kid just because you're too slow to catch him...

nihilist
4th May 10, 10:00 AM
They didn't "electrocute a kid", they tased him.

WarPhalange
4th May 10, 10:25 AM
They didn't "electrocute a kid", they tased him.

They didn't "tase" him, they prevented him from not being tased.

nihilist
4th May 10, 10:33 AM
"Don't not tase me, bro."

SFGOON
4th May 10, 10:43 AM
The taser and the mace is the same level of force as a wristy-twisty or a bear hug.

The subjective agony of the asshole is not a factor in determining the level of force involved.

The taser is dramatic. It hurts like hell and makes a loud TIK TIK TIK TIK TIK TIK. But there's no permanent injury.

Something I learned whilst reflecting on my 60 days of hard-core street patrol in affluent Edmonds (with an ocean view!) is that more than anything, police are there to protect. This involves maintaining an aloof, authoritative, and dispassionate mental posture.

At the drop of a hat, you have to be ready to go and investigate the hanging suicide of a 14 year old girl with her mother wailing in grief in the background. Then, while still extremely upset from the encounter, you go to some domestic disturbance where some yokel with a mullet is thrashing on his elderly mother. Next up is a residential burglary, where some rich lady follows you around nagging why you're not doing it "like on CSI Miami."

At this point you tell her "Ma'am, could you please back off and allow me to conduct my investigation?!" Guess what - that's a citizen complaint and a sit-down-chat with the sergeant.

BTW this all happened when it was 100+ degrees out. Dad dressed me in wool pants and a bullet-proof vest...

Nobody ever calls the cops and says "Could you dispatch an officer to XXXX, we have some leftover birthday cake we'd like to share," or "Do any of your officers play the bass? 'Cuz I've got a hankerin' to jam and my bassist is out with his girlfriend," or "We're having a mazola oil party and need another man - do you have any disease free bisexual officers?"

No. The best call you get all day is some fat 12 year old who calls 911 accidentally and hangs up. You cautiously approach the house looking for signs of trouble then knock on the door. The kid is home alone and answers the door. He's scared and calls you sir. Relative to all the other things that have happened that day, he's the living embodiment of Buddha (and kind of looks like him, too.) You tell him it's a common mistake and he didn't do anything wrong, and that if he ever has an emergency it's okay to call 911, and that if it's an accident just tell the dispatcher you made a mistake and it's no big deal.

You've got to keep your mental armor on, or being a cop will break you, quickly. In short, you have to be something of an asshole to be effective. That's not what citizens want at all, and I relish the few times I got to be nice.

Steve knows me personally and knows I'm a nice guy. You'd be shocked to see how I interacted with people when I put on the badge. I was curt, I seemed insensitive, I was confrontational. It was a very un-natural way to interact with people. I had to be commanding with, and even arrest, people who I thought just needed a good hug. It spilled over into other areas of my life and that's why even though I miss the rush I'm not going to be a cop anymore.

But God damn do I respect police officers now, more than ever. Kein, you perverted shit, thanks for all you do. Seriously.

HappyOldGuy
4th May 10, 11:05 AM
Nobody ever calls the cops and says "Could you dispatch an officer to XXXX, we have some leftover birthday cake we'd like to share,"
When I was a kid, people did shit like that. Not calling 911, but doing nice things for cops and firemen. I wonder when we stopped.

Not me of course, pork.

nihilist
4th May 10, 11:10 AM
Perhaps if cops put a little more effort into being personable they would have more opportunities to slap out Funkytown at the next block party.

Cullion
4th May 10, 11:35 AM
I kissed an on-duty female officer on New Year's eve once. And I didn't get tasered.

nihilist
4th May 10, 11:40 AM
Better luck next time.

SFGOON
4th May 10, 12:56 PM
Ha ha, my car just got prowled. The fuckers stole my backpack which contained my lab notebook, textbooks, notes, and other assorted shit. The policeman didn't tase me. In fact, he was quite friendly.

Sigh...

kracker
4th May 10, 01:14 PM
I think a more pressing question is who exactly is it being protected OR served by police?

HINT: It's not YOU http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html

SFGOON
4th May 10, 01:24 PM
A lot is legally inaccurate in that article. The standards for determining breach of service are as follows;

Was there a duty owed?

Was there a duty breached?

Was a loss suffered?

Was the breach of duty the proximate cause of the loss?

When all these conditions are met, individual officers and their departments can be successfully sued. It can and does happen.

Also, with regards to the federal portion - the federal government cannot be held liable for the actions of a police department they didn't themselves charter. That goes back to whomever certified the agency, usually a city or county.

Ajamil
4th May 10, 04:11 PM
I like cops. There's foot patrols in my neighborhood now, and I try to smile and say hello to them.


Nobody ever calls the cops and says "Could you dispatch an officer to XXXX, we have some leftover birthday cake we'd like to share," or "Do any of your officers play the bass? 'Cuz I've got a hankerin' to jam and my bassist is out with his girlfriend," or "We're having a mazola oil party and need another man - do you have any disease free bisexual officers?"
I get pissed when people don't clean up after their kids at a restaurant as well.

Robot Jesus
4th May 10, 08:29 PM
have you had any personal experiences with police corruption? how was it dealt with, was that to your satisfaction?

what are your thoughts about establishing a universal taser warning of yelling "PIIIIKAAACUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" before firing the weapon?

Kein Haar
4th May 10, 08:39 PM
I've seen two people fired for mishandling calls for stray cats. Two area departments.

I've seen two other fired for being...well...corrupt assholes. My department.

Teh th1n bloo lin3!!!!1

Robot Jesus
4th May 10, 08:42 PM
could you be more specific? how many cats, were captions involved? oh and i guess the corrupt assholes as well.

Ajamil
4th May 10, 08:56 PM
Did they shoot them? Much as I'd hate it, I could see a cop (or anyone with a gun) getting fed up with a stray and just shooting it.

Also, no need for new thread (unless mods decide otherwise, then I'll do a full write up). What do you think of this case? (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/hot_topics/Tainted_Justice.html) Philadelphia "elite drug squad" is covered in a long running journalist piece that uncovers quite a bit of corruption, including allegations of molestation and stealing, shows the squad went from being a weapon against the big drug lords to hitting corner stores that sold tiny ziplock bags, and how they would make raids and then focus on removing surveillance ability, rather than looking for drugs/paraphernalia. I heard it on NPR, (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126386819) when they were talking about catching the police on tape systematically removing a store surveillance cameras (they didn't know the cameras were broadcasting and being downloaded at the owner's home).

FickleFingerOfFate
4th May 10, 09:00 PM
could you be more specific? how many cats, were captions involved? oh and i guess the corrupt assholes as well.


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-cat-will-not-stop-for-you.jpg

SFGOON
4th May 10, 09:32 PM
We hear at Glendale Heights PD take the safety of our companion-less companion animals very seriously. I'm sorry Jones, but scruffing that poor mangy cat and throwing it on the barbecue was bad. But to actually eat it?! You know the media is going to have a field day with this! As Cheif of Police, I am obligated to stand behind and support my political career no matter what. I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave the department.

Ajamil
4th May 10, 09:52 PM
"I take it you didn't like your kebabs, Chief?"

Robot Jesus
4th May 10, 10:03 PM
really cat cooks much like rabbit.

SoulMechanic
4th May 10, 10:06 PM
Has anyone ever sucked their way out of a parking ticket on your beat? Are you mad that firemen get all the top shelf pussy? Has becoming a cop made you more/less prejudiced towards any specific minorities?

This last one is for Goon. Since you could not hack it as a cop, what member of the village people do you fantasize about dressing up as now?

SFGOON
4th May 10, 10:38 PM
The butt-fuckin' one.

nihilist
4th May 10, 11:11 PM
Well that narrows it down.

Kein Haar
4th May 10, 11:15 PM
Soul Mechanic,

Yes/no questions bore me.

nihilist
4th May 10, 11:26 PM
Kein haar: But would you say you actually HATE yes/no questions?

1. Yes.
2. No.
3.Maybe.

Kein Haar
4th May 10, 11:28 PM
2.

Zendetta
4th May 10, 11:49 PM
The Sheriff of my redneck hometown (Lee County, SC) got arrested for basically being the Corrupt Small Town Southern Sheriff of Legend.

He went 'round and tipped off drug dealers, dealt coke out of his Sheriff's Dept vehicle, and probably did a ton of other gangster shit too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/03/fbi-sheriff-ej-melvin-dea_n_561858.html

edit: Oh Shit! The Sheriff's black!

nihilist
4th May 10, 11:53 PM
The cops always get the best shit.

HappyOldGuy
5th May 10, 12:01 AM
Tested for quality. (http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/2173112,CST-NWS-drug19.article)

nihilist
5th May 10, 12:05 AM
Goddamn that's funny.

Zendetta
5th May 10, 12:08 AM
What's truly HIGHlarious is that the woman that took a lot of that stuff home from the lab looks about as wild as a teetotalling spinster librarian knitting champion.

SoulMechanic
5th May 10, 12:47 AM
But knitting is one of the only things I can do sober.

elipson
5th May 10, 01:55 AM
"I didn't do it," she said, admitting only to snorting small amounts of cocaine spilled on her work station.
Bahahahahaha!!!!!

nihilist
5th May 10, 02:04 AM
She snorted it but didn't inhale.

Ajamil
5th May 10, 04:48 AM
It was an innocent thought process. "Oh damn spilled some, and the dustbuster is so far away..."

nihilist
5th May 10, 10:56 AM
Junkies always have really convenient rationale.