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View Full Version : "Affordable", mass production all electric car coming out soon - Nissan LEAF



danno
13th April 10, 09:04 AM
this car has been unveiled for a little while now, and will be available for sale towards the end of this year in japan, europe and america, then a bit later in aus.

here is a short summary:

f48x9baSuF0

thoughts? would anyone here buy such a thing?

Madgrenade
13th April 10, 09:51 AM
30 minute quickest charge? 8 hours!! 100 miles!? What a p.o.s!

Cullion
13th April 10, 01:18 PM
Hmm..

The range and charge time would make it fine for weekday use on my daily commute. I'd want a conventional car with a tank full of gas for longer journeys, but that doesn't rule it out in principle.

I'd want to see a price comparison of a 100 miles of electricity from my home supply, vs 100 miles of fuel in a simillar sized conventional car, and total cost of ownership for maintenance, what usage I can expect from a second-hand one with a certain mileage etc.. before I got interested.

I'm also not interested in paying additional taxes in order for it to be made to appear cheaper via subsidy (or sanctions on conventional vehicles).

Kiko
13th April 10, 02:04 PM
Leaf? Who's in charge of marketing over there? I don't wanna drive a LEAF! What if it wilts? Will it change colors with the seasons? Will it blow away? Sounds flimsy!

Ajamil
13th April 10, 04:01 PM
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4594/216409-zelda_wind_waker_deku_leaf_float_screen_large.jpg (http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j142/hswilton/My%20Heroes/Zelda_Wind_Waker_Deku_Leaf_float.jpg?t=1271192215)
Sounds nice, but I worry about infrastructure for it - as is the case for all electric cars. Would they package in the "plug?" They should market the "quick charge" stations as drive-up restaurants, like Sonic. That way you can park, plug in your car, grab a bite to eat, and when you're done - so is your car.

Also, mobile phone controls sounds like a perfect way to mess with people who borrow your car.

danno
13th April 10, 05:23 PM
i understand that running costs are extremely low and repairs are very simple.

it loses efficiency at highway speeds however. it won't travel 100 miles at 60 miles an hour.

the plug will come with it of course, so charging up at home is no problem. but i doubt that quick charge stations will be common any time in the next few years.

i'd consider owning something like this, but keep a conventional car for the longer trips.

Cullion
13th April 10, 05:33 PM
What does a full 'tank' cost at residential electricity prices though?

FickleFingerOfFate
13th April 10, 05:52 PM
Compare and contrast with the Chevrolet Volt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/future/volt.do


http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6641759/news/engineers-confirm-chevrolet-volt-is-capable-of-all-electric-40-mile-target/index.html

Cullion
13th April 10, 06:06 PM
Well, from the Volt's wiki page, it says we're talking about roughly 25 kW hours per 100 miles. If the original all electric car got the same performance you'd spend about 2.50 on recharging for every 100 miles here.

A standard petrol engine that got 40 mpg would cost you about 10-15 to do the same distance, which represents a huge saving. If the maintenance/depreciation and insurance were the same as for the petrol engine, I'd save about 20 a week, so it depends what they are.

FickleFingerOfFate
13th April 10, 06:09 PM
If the original all electric car ...


This original electric car?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1


Or this one.


http://www.teslamotors.com/models/

Cullion
13th April 10, 06:18 PM
Sorry, I wasn't making some anti-US car industry point. When I said 'original' I just meant the car in the original post.

FickleFingerOfFate
13th April 10, 06:26 PM
Sorry, I wasn't making some anti-US car industry point. When I said 'original' I just meant the car in the original post.

I was just making the point that although several car companies, foreign and domestic are claiming to be pioneers in the industry, most are very late to the party.

IMHO, Tesla is the true pioneer in the realm of practical production level electric cars, since the ev-1 was limited production at best, and barely beyond experimental.

Keith
13th April 10, 09:23 PM
I work for the company that will be providing the residential (or level II charging as it's known in the industry) EVSE. I can try to answer questions, but I'm limited with what I'm allowed to say to the public.

That being said, you should totally buy one :biggrin:

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 10, 12:10 AM
The Tesla Roadster would smoke that abortion you call a ride.

Keith
14th April 10, 12:54 AM
Sounds nice, but I worry about infrastructure for it - as is the case for all electric cars.

Infrastructure is a big problem in encouraging adoption of electric vehicles. There's a big chicken and egg kind of problem where people don't want to buy electric vehicles because there's not infrastructure to support them, but don't want to invest in the infrastructure because no one drives electric vehicles. Hopefully, a push from a big company like this can break the cycle.

danno
14th April 10, 12:55 AM
combustion engines will never be taken away from you. they'll just become obsolete. fuel will get more expensive one day, but not so expensive that car enthusiasts can't drive their favourite machines around on the weekend.

Cullion
14th April 10, 10:34 AM
I've done some very, very basic tax norming with the first set of figures. In the UK, about 70% of the cost of a liter of petrol is tax. This would leave a vehicle that needed 25 kwh to do 100 miles still with lower fuel costs than a pure petrol engine (although less dramatic a saving), even if we assumed that none of the current retail kilowatt-hour cost of electricty was tax (which of course it is).

It's therefore quite possible that these vehicles will make more self-interested financial sense for ordinary commuters Without any kind of tax incentives to use them, or tax punishments for choosing a petrol engine, although in the tax-less comparison the total cost of ownership of the all-electric car (maintenance, depreciation and insurance) become much more important, and I still don't have any rough figures for those yet.

Ajamil
14th April 10, 11:16 AM
Bullshit. MJS will land a loaded sugar-daddy and be given a Tesla Roadster.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 10, 11:55 AM
The infrastructure, especially in an area like mine, is going to be a huge problem.

I can drive flatout open deserts for 30 miles in any direction before I hit the next city. Something along the lines of an electric car is impractical around here.

Ajamil
14th April 10, 12:05 PM
solar panel option?

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 10, 12:07 PM
Windmill powered?

Ajamil
14th April 10, 12:11 PM
The faster you go, the more wind there is, the more power your car gets!

Cullion
14th April 10, 12:31 PM
The infrastructure, especially in an area like mine, is going to be a huge problem.

I can drive flatout open deserts for 30 miles in any direction before I hit the next city. Something along the lines of an electric car is impractical around here.

The vehicle in the original post is supposed to be good for 100 miles, so you'd be good for a trip to the next city and back with plenty to spare before you had to recharge.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 10, 12:53 PM
The vehicle in the original post is supposed to be good for 100 miles, so you'd be good for a trip to the next city and back with plenty to spare before you had to recharge.

I wouldn't risk it.
Mountainous terrain and the need for constant A/C along with the hopes that you actually find a charging station.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 10, 01:29 PM
Bah. After the house is finished building and gets furnished, I will be buying a BMW 335xi.

The 335 to the Roadster is like squirrel burgers to filet mingon.


You will not own anything close to a new BMW in your lifetime slacker.

I don't even want to.

bob
14th April 10, 03:54 PM
The infrastructure, especially in an area like mine, is going to be a huge problem.

I can drive flatout open deserts for 30 miles in any direction before I hit the next city. Something along the lines of an electric car is impractical around here.

Extension cord faggot.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 10, 04:00 PM
Extension cord faggot.
can't.
the boombox I use in the electric car is already plugged into it.

=(

danno
14th April 10, 04:47 PM
I wouldn't risk it.
Mountainous terrain and the need for constant A/C along with the hopes that you actually find a charging station.

at highway speeds through mountainous terrain with AC on, you will certainly not drive 100 miles in this car.

drive 60 then camp for a week while the solar panels recharge it.

it's really a solution for the city.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 10, 05:01 PM
Umm... No. In many ways, the 335xi is both more technologically advanced and more luxurious. You obviously don't know anything about automobiles and just like the Tesla because of the geek factor.

Beamers are the monogrammed Coach handbags of the car world - a mid-range product marketed as upscale towards people who don't know any better. I have sneakers with finer leather than any BMW's interior. Not to mention that the 335xi has only a smidgeon more horsepower and torque than the roadster, which adds up to nothing because the Roadster's electric engine is always at peak efficency and the 335's is not. Really, the only thing going against the Roadster is that it comes programmed with a 125mph ceiling.


Good. Go back to sitting in your cardboard box and making engine noises. Mommy will bring dinner soon.

Too bad a luxury car is only going to hide your birkenstocks and hawaiian shirt until you get out of it.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 10, 05:02 PM
at highway speeds through mountainous terrain with AC on, you will certainly not drive 100 miles in this car.

drive 60 then camp for a week while the solar panels recharge it.

it's really a solution for the city.

The climate I am in, the "High Desert Region" is notoriously harsh on vehicles. Temperatures in excess of 100F degrees in the summer, snow possible in the winter, elevation of 3600 ft. above sea level and driving an hour one direction it reaches in excess of 7200 ft. above sea level and driving an hour in another direction takes you to sea level.

While I would love one for tooling around, it isn't practical.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 10, 05:11 PM
Why do you willingly live in that shitstain? I won't troll you anymore man, it must be hard enough dealing with life as it is.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 10, 05:19 PM
You are blowing so much smoke. Are you forgetting range? Are you forgetting AWD? Are you forgetting the smart professional long time drivers at Car and Driver magazine who consistently put the BMW 3 series in their recommended list because of how it drives?

I think I will go with the experts instead of some skinny pothead pizza delivery dude.

If there was a such thing as an indie car manufactuerer producing some of the best cars on the market, they still wouldn't be featured in Car and Driver. C&D just sucks the cock of the major automobile manufactuers that pay their bills, the same as nearly any other magazine.


I have never owned birkenstocks. Or a hawaiin shirt.

But you do own that abortion of a pair of DMs and that gay flower shirt from some Jimi Hendrix extortion label.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 10, 05:20 PM
Why do you willingly live in that shitstain? I won't troll you anymore man, it must be hard enough dealing with life as it is.


And how do pizza delivery with a 100mile radius Duracell?

Cullion
14th April 10, 05:33 PM
I have the power to move your posts, and mjs' posts into a 'BIG GAYOFF THREAD' thread.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 10, 05:35 PM
I fully support you.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 10, 05:45 PM
I fully support you.
workin' the shaft and cuppin' the balls

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 10, 05:53 PM
Hey man, can you teach my boyfriend to suck dick like you? That thing where you deepthroated my entire cock and then tongued my balls while working the tip with your throat? Shit.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 10, 06:02 PM
Hey man, can you teach my boyfriend to suck dick like you? That thing where you deepthroated my entire cock and then tongued my balls while working the tip with your throat? Shit.
you cock hasn't seen daylight since you *barely* hit puberty and sprouted that one hair.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 10, 06:08 PM
Of course it hasn't. I don't fuck outside like some kind of animal.

HappyOldGuy
14th April 10, 06:15 PM
Back on topic. I think electric motorcycles and maybe trikes make much more sense. They are just inherently more practical for exactly the kind of put putting around town that electric vehicles work best for, and of course they need fewer batteries which is going to be a growing expense. The commercially available electric motorcycles are still just a hair underpowered. They aren't really powerful enough for freeway driving if you weigh more than kate moss, but they are very close. I expect to buy one within the next few years, as soon as a model comes out that can consistently do 80 MPH.

Cars have alot further to go IMHO.

danno
14th April 10, 07:29 PM
yep, there are a lot of good bikes coming out in the next couple of years. we'll be seeing some really fast electric road bikes soon.

Ajamil
14th April 10, 08:19 PM
When do we start worrying about battery disposal and the resurgence of acid rain?


The vehicle in the original post is supposed to be good for 100 miles, so you'd be good for a trip to the next city and back with plenty to spare before you had to recharge.
100 miles would get you far enough along the Phoenix to Tucson route that you'd realize when your car dies, you will too if you try to walk to the nearest city.

HappyOldGuy
14th April 10, 08:21 PM
When do we start worrying about battery disposal and the resurgence of acid rain?

Battery disposal is a very good question, but what do you think that has to do with acid rain?

Ajamil
14th April 10, 10:54 PM
Don't batteries use sulfuric acid? I was seeing a concentration of this in junkyards as disposal regulations grow lax, which then seep into water supplies and into the weather cycle.

Keith
15th April 10, 06:42 AM
Don't batteries use sulfuric acid? I was seeing a concentration of this in junkyards as disposal regulations grow lax, which then seep into water supplies and into the weather cycle.

Lead-acid batteries (the kind that's in your car right now) use sulfuric acid. Lithium-ion batteries (the kind that power the Leaf) use lithium ions. Lithium is toxic in other ways, but it won't make acid rain. Lead acid batteries won't make acid rain either; acid rain comes from a bunch of people burning fossil fuels that have high sulfur content. The sulfur won't make acid rain unless it gets aerosol-ized and released into the atmosphere.

Car-sized batteries will probably be recycled into more batteries. It means you won't be able to dump your car on the side of the road, but you're not supposed to do that with an internal combustion car either.

Keith
24th April 10, 01:04 AM
I'm not sure how to inbed this type of video, so here's the link
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index?dcp=ppn.39666654.&dcc=0.216878497#/leaf-electric-car/video/view/charging

The black test box shown at 1:19 of the video is something I designed and built (the unit used in that particular video is sitting on my desk at work as a matter of fact). None of you may care, but it gives me a warm-fuzzy. Just wanted to share.

danno
24th April 10, 03:36 AM
that's pretty fucking cool actually.

Ajamil
24th April 10, 09:47 AM
That is cool. Any plans for people owning these without homes? People who are on leases or people in apartments might want to charge their car too. Honestly I can't think of a good way at the moment except for charging stations. Guess they'll be a homeowner luxury until the infrastructure is there?

Spade: The Real Snake
24th April 10, 10:13 AM
I am kinda liking the Nissan Juke

Keith
24th April 10, 11:57 AM
That is cool. Any plans for people owning these without homes? People who are on leases or people in apartments might want to charge their car too. Honestly I can't think of a good way at the moment except for charging stations. Guess they'll be a homeowner luxury until the infrastructure is there?

This is a sticky point at the moment. You'd have to make arrangements with your landlord. You could even try to argue that the landlord should pay for the installation, as being electric vehicle friendly would make the property more attractive to rent. I doubt this would happen, but you could make your case.

Believe me, we're working on the infrastructure thing.

Ajamil
24th April 10, 03:53 PM
Considering my current place has me parking on the street...

I could lobby the city govt. to install them in parking lots (say the one across from my work) and pay a monthly rate to help with the installation fees. I'd be down with that, but I'd want a reserved spot and basically make it where I keep my car.

FickleFingerOfFate
24th April 10, 04:17 PM
I'm seriously hoping that GM will have a reserved area in the employee parking lots for Volt owners, with a charging station in it. I would seriously consider buying a Volt if this was the case.

bob
24th April 10, 05:24 PM
That garage was cleaner than my kitchen.

Keith
24th April 10, 05:51 PM
Considering my current place has me parking on the street...

I could lobby the city govt. to install them in parking lots (say the one across from my work) and pay a monthly rate to help with the installation fees. I'd be down with that, but I'd want a reserved spot and basically make it where I keep my car.

Lobbing the city to promote EV charging infrastructure is a fabulous idea. Don't forget county, state and congress representatives as well.


I'm seriously hoping that GM will have a reserved area in the employee parking lots for Volt owners, with a charging station in it. I would seriously consider buying a Volt if this was the case.

We're seriously hoping GM (and Ford, and Chrysler, and Honda and Toyota, and Mitsubishi, etc.) want to do this too.

FickleFingerOfFate
24th April 10, 09:11 PM
We're seriously hoping GM (and Ford, and Chrysler, and Honda and Toyota, and Mitsubishi, etc.) want to do this too.

Are you supporting the GM standard for the interface?
Has a universal standard been identified?
Which portion of the infrastructure do you develop/market?

Keith
24th April 10, 11:28 PM
Has a universal standard been identified?

Standards of Automotive Engineers J1772 has been released for level I (through a standard 120 volt wall socket) and level II (240 volt electric vehicle supply equipment, the charge station in the video). Level III charging (fast charging) is still being finalized and fought over.
The Leaf's website claims: Starting from a depleted battery, 16-18 hours at 110V, 8 hours at 220V (depending on amperage), 26 minutes to 80% at a quick-charge station.

Which portion of the infrastructure do you develop/market?
Level II and III. Personally I deal mostly with level II.

Keith
19th October 11, 10:27 PM
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k79/hapkido_keith/evgostartion.jpg
Just to show off some of my work.

danno
19th October 11, 10:37 PM
champion!

Pie of Hate
20th October 11, 03:31 AM
I'm still not totally convinced that electricity is a suitable replacement for fossil fuels.

AAAAAA
20th October 11, 05:09 AM
There's also the infrastructure and energy supply problem. To charge an EV in 15 minutes you need much much more current than your typical home receives, and a lot more powerplants must be built as well.

Pie of Hate
20th October 11, 06:17 AM
Also, in Britan at least, the goverment gets all pissy over alternative fuel sources. They view it as a tax dodge (happened with using recycled cooking oil in diesels). Would this lead to a seperate metering system for your car charger? At the moment fuel duty here is ~60 - 70% (never remember which) which would mean any saving made on purchasing a little milk float would be lost on running costs.

Whats the average life expectancy on one of this battery packs?

Ajamil
20th October 11, 07:28 AM
That's a smallish car. Can a 6 and a half foot person fit comfortably?

danno
20th October 11, 08:36 AM
I'm still not totally convinced that electricity is a suitable replacement for fossil fuels.

so far they're the best alternative, and they're getting better. we're really at the ground floor of what they can do. you'll see massive improvements in range, charging times and infrastructure in the coming decades.

besides, even in a bad peak oil scenario it's not like internal combustion cars will just disappear or be completely replaced. there should be enough oil around for people to drive these things for a very, very long time. it'll just get more expensive. expect to see more electric cars for daily commutes to work and so on.

there is no reason at all to think of this in absolutes.

Pie of Hate
20th October 11, 08:44 AM
Replace "Replacement" with "Alternitive". Saves me a post edit.

Wouldn't Biodiesel and other Biofuels be better alternatives? Biodiesel is pretty much good to go into existing engines.

danno
20th October 11, 09:45 AM
it works, but it'll only ever play a small part. for a significant number of vehicles to run on biodiesel we'd have to displace a lot of arable land.

i couldn't be bothered looking shit up right now to show you numbers, but i believe electric cars are much cheaper at the end of the day.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th October 11, 10:18 AM
I think we need to remake Mad Max but use a Nissan Leaf.

AAAAAA
20th October 11, 10:22 AM
With containers full of enslaved children pedaling for electricity instead of fuel tankers.

danno
20th October 11, 10:45 AM
here's a breakdown of why biofuels don't make sense to me.

ethanol: collect energy from the sun via plants, which also requires water, nutrients from the soil and pesticides -> use bacteria to break the plants down and create the ethanol -> burn fuel to transport the ethanol -> burn it in an engine which wastes 80% of the remaining energy.

electricity: collect energy from sun/coal/gas/nuclear/whatever -> immediately convert to electricity -> lose a little energy as it travels through the power grid -> plug your car in.

as far as i can see, it's ridiculously more efficient.

Pie of Hate
20th October 11, 11:53 AM
here's a breakdown of why biofuels don't make sense to me.

ethanol: collect energy from the sun via plants, which also requires water, nutrients from the soil and pesticides -> use bacteria to break the plants down and create the ethanol -> burn fuel to transport the ethanol -> burn it in an engine which wastes 80% of the remaining energy.

electricity: collect energy from sun/coal/gas/nuclear/whatever -> immediately convert to electricity -> lose a little energy as it travels through the power grid -> plug your car in.

as far as i can see, it's ridiculously more efficient.

You missued the bit about coal/oil/gas/whatever needing to be extracted from the earth and refined in some cases, not to mention transportation. Factor these in and it's no better really. No worse either though.

Phone post so please forgive the crappy structure.

Ajamil
20th October 11, 12:28 PM
This is heresy!Np, NoB, it's perfect! The electric car revolution brought about the downfall of civilization, and now it's just as creativo said. Except the cars are whisper quiet, so all you hear throughout the streets is the wail of poor people's kids as they power the rich in their electric Vipers. The faster you go, the more it hurts the poor, and Mad Max is out there tearing up those streets!

danno
20th October 11, 07:23 PM
You missued the bit about coal/oil/gas/whatever needing to be extracted from the earth and refined in some cases, not to mention transportation. Factor these in and it's no better really. No worse either though.

Phone post so please forgive the crappy structure.

i really doubt that. i'm sure i've seen numbers saying otherwise.

if i can be bothered i'll look into it later, but feel free to show me anything you might find.

Pie of Hate
21st October 11, 02:07 AM
Statistics aren't really needed. Fossil fuel takes a lot of heavy plant to extract. These machines need fuel to run, as do the frieght trucks and tankers needed to transport it. In cases where the materials are quarried, the area, when spent is usually either turned over to land fill companies or left to go wild and declared as a Nature Reserve.

Whilst this is still less of a land requirement than the mass farming of biofuel needs its still land that is taken out of general use. Enviromentally, it makes no difference if the fuel is burnt in a car engine or the furnaces of a power station. With the increased demand mass use of milk floats will cause it'll probably average out the same.

Batteries are also not the greatest way of storing power.

If i had to put cold hard cash into a hippie fuel alternative, i'd put it into Hydrogen development.

FickleFingerOfFate
21st October 11, 04:28 AM
If i had to put cold hard cash into a hippie fuel alternative, i'd put it into Hydrogen development.



This.

danno
21st October 11, 05:05 AM
Statistics aren't really needed.

i disagree, we need to look at some data.


Enviromentally, it makes no difference if the fuel is burnt in a car engine or the furnaces of a power station.

this is wrong, it's more efficient to burn coal at a power station and run electric cars than burning fuel in a car.


If i had to put cold hard cash into a hippie fuel alternative, i'd put it into Hydrogen development.

procuring hydrogen is energy intensive.

danno
21st October 11, 05:49 AM
here's a wiki quote, for what it's worth.


Due to efficiency of electric engines as compared to combustion engines, even when the electricity used to charge electric vehicles comes from a CO2 emitting source, such as a coal or gas fired powered plant, the net CO2 production from an electric car is typically one half to one third of that from a comparable combustion vehicle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle#Efficiency

i think EVs are the best alternative at the moment. i'm not married to that idea and i'll change my mind once i see something better.

AAAAAA
21st October 11, 06:32 AM
How about the energy needed to build electric cars? Is it much lower than a normal IC engined car?

danno
21st October 11, 06:47 AM
i have no idea.

Pie of Hate
21st October 11, 07:23 AM
How about the energy needed to build electric cars? Is it much lower than a normal IC engined car?


i have no idea.

Me neither.

Pie of Hate
21st October 11, 07:34 AM
Technically CO2 is generated by the power plant that produces electricity for your electric car. In an unlikely event your energy supplier uses only coal and oil, your car will be responsible for 200 g CO2 per mile.

If we assume that the energy supplier diversifies its energy sources and take the pie-charts to do some calculations, we can roughly conclude that electric car generates 130 g CO2 per mile in Britain and 126 g in USA.

A pretty decent result but nothing to brag about. That is a little bit less than a petrol car but as it is technically possible to build a petrol car that goes 100 g CO2 per mile, consider an electric car as a motoring alternative and a way to save money, not as green transport.

From the Q+A section of Electric Car News (http://www.electriccarnews.co.uk/electric-car-faq/)

Marginally better but nothing to write home about.

danno
21st October 11, 07:51 AM
the way things look at the moment, batteries will get cheaper and oil will get more expensive.

Pie of Hate
21st October 11, 08:44 AM
lithium carbonate was at about US$4.50/kg a few years ago. Not sure what it is now.

danno
21st October 11, 09:03 AM
that's a valid point, peak lithium will indeed happen. which would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

i'm pretty confident a replacement will be found though. a lot more EVs need to be made before it becomes a problem too.

Ajamil
21st October 11, 09:21 AM
How do they dispose of the batteries? Isn't waste a serious problem with a lot of these new technologies?

Pie of Hate
21st October 11, 09:46 AM
Batteries can be recycled so thats not so much of a problem. For now at least.

Spade: The Real Snake
21st October 11, 11:14 AM
Batteries can be recycled so thats not so much of a problem. For now at least.
Last I read, 2009/10, there was only one plant in the US

Pie of Hate
21st October 11, 12:54 PM
If demand picks up then everything else should follow. That's the plan anyways.

Spade: The Real Snake
21st October 11, 01:20 PM
Or, you know, the stimulus money Obama gave them:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=lithium-ion-batteries-hybrid-electric-vehicle-recycling

9/2009


The Department of Energy recently awarded $9.5 million to a California-based recycling company to boost capacity for lithium-ion batteries, the kind used to power most of the new hybrid and plug-in electric vehicles entering the world market.


Toxco Inc. -- currently the only U.S.-based company able to recycle all sizes and models of lithium-ion batteries -- will use the grant to expand its recycling facility in Lancaster, Ohio, to process vehicle-grade batteries.


The grant is part of $2.4 billion in stimulus funds awarded last month to jump-start the manufacturing and deployment of a domestic crop of vehicle batteries, part of President Obama's pledge to transition the country away from a dependency on foreign oil and foreign-made batteries.

Spade: The Real Snake
21st October 11, 01:24 PM
http://www.thedailygreen.com/living-green/blogs/recycling-design-technology/electric-car-battery-disposal

lol
I love how the justification all uses the words "working on" or "working towards"

Pie of Hate
21st October 11, 02:19 PM
Most electric cars aren't old enough to need replacement battery's. What the hell was he thinking. lol at Obama

Feryk
21st October 11, 02:22 PM
Yeah, planning for the future is lame, yo.

HappyOldGuy
21st October 11, 04:37 PM
Here Obama is, lookin out for snake, tryin to make sure that snakes lawn care stays cheap cause they don't have better options in factories back home, and does snake even say thank you? Hell no!

Spade: The Real Snake
21st October 11, 04:44 PM
Here Obama is, lookin out for snake, tryin to make sure that snakes lawn care stays cheap cause they don't have better options in factories back home, and does snake even say thank you? Hell no!
My Mezkinz use gas powered mowers.

HappyOldGuy
21st October 11, 06:57 PM
My Mezkinz use gas powered mowers.

If we keep letting them build the factories in Mexico, we're gonna run out! Obama is protecting you from a mexican shortage.

Pie of Hate
22nd October 11, 04:36 AM
How about Mexican powered cars?

Spade: The Real Snake
22nd October 11, 11:31 AM
there is no shortage of Mezkinz cuz nonpilled unprophylactic Catholics shagging like bunnies keep spitting them out like fucking Gashapons

Spade: The Real Snake
22nd October 11, 11:31 AM
Mexican powered
oxymoron

Keith
22nd October 11, 12:41 PM
How about the energy needed to build electric cars? Is it much lower than a normal IC engined car?

Nissan is saying it's about the same

danno
22nd October 11, 08:43 PM
cool. technology improvements and economies of scale might even make it cheaper soon.

Keith
23rd October 11, 08:45 PM
7928

Yeah, I'd like to "boing" her too.

Robot Jesus
24th October 11, 12:09 PM
the ideal way to distribute biofule would be as a parallel to the water system. hot, cold, 180 proof taps.

Hedley LaMarr
24th October 11, 03:33 PM
that's a valid point, peak lithium will indeed happen. which would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

i'm pretty confident a replacement will be found though. a lot more EVs need to be made before it becomes a problem too.
I haven't thought about this since high school physics, but what about capacitors?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4252623


(http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4252623)

Spade: The Real Snake
24th October 11, 03:42 PM
MagLev is the future, boy.
That and *PLASTICS*

Hedley LaMarr
24th October 11, 03:56 PM
MagLev is the future, boy.
That and *PLASTICS*
Fuck that. In the future, I will use portal technology to teleport wherever I want in the universe at will.

At that point, there will be no distinguishing me from wizards.

danno
24th October 11, 08:11 PM
I haven't thought about this since high school physics, but what about capacitors?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4252623

excellent.

whatever the best answer turns out to be, it'll almost certainly involve nanotechnology.

danno
27th October 11, 09:19 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2011/oct/26/top-10-green-cars-in-pictures

kick
29th October 11, 12:23 AM
Leaf? Who's in charge of marketing over there? I don't wanna drive a LEAF! What if it wilts? Will it change colors with the seasons? Will it blow away? Sounds flimsy!

I've gotta agree with these comments, very flimsy marketing, made me lol