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View Full Version : Mens Clubs: sexist injustice or haven for fellowship?



DAYoung
21st March 10, 01:57 AM
http://www.melbournesavageclub.com/msc/Portals/0/msc_SocialRoom.jpgThe urge for single-sex fraternity will remain strong
DAMON YOUNG
November 27, 2009, The Age

A couple of years ago, I was invited by a good friend to lunch at one of Melbourne's gentlemen's clubs. If I enjoyed it, I might've joined as a ''literary'' member. He promised me amiable company, good conversation, and fine spirits (of the alcoholic sort). I remember my reply: ''Sounds marvellous. Can I bring my wife?''

Of course, I couldn't - it was a so-called ''gentleman's retreat''. And it still is, since a parliamentary committee ended state Attorney-General Rob Hulls' campaign to include the clubs in Victoria's anti-discrimination laws.

Citing ''freedom of association'', the committee argued that these sorts of voluntary communities are a ''fundamental human right''. Whether it's the women-only Lyceum Club, or the men-only Melbourne, Athenaeum or Savage clubs, it's perfectly legal for grown-ups to form cliques and collectives. So what, then, is Hulls' problem with these clubs?

For the Attorney-General, they're dominated by ''crusty old fogeys and young fuddy-duddies'', with outmoded views.

But there's nothing wrong - legally or morally - with being old or fussy. What Hulls is getting at is something else: a patriarchal vision of the world, where men (usually rich, older and white) sit by the furnace of power, and shut the boiler room door on women. And he sees this, it seems, as a relic of the 19th century, with its strictly defined gender roles, and celebration of the rich, powerful, Anglo-Saxon gentleman.

Even if this were a caricature, there's no doubt that gentlemen's clubs do often attract wealthy, powerful men. And in doing so, they provide a forum for networking in an old-fashioned way - while business is off-limits, the atmosphere still provides the glue that keeps old boys together. In this, they're like sporting clubs and private schools, both of which remain tarnished by problems of misogyny and male aggression.

Because of this, I can understand why Hulls wants to put legal pressure on men's clubs; to ask them to apply for exemption, and demonstrate why they should exile half the population from their ranks. I can also understand why Hulls wants the law to be universal: special exclusions reek of inequality and injustice. Over time, these laws might make single-sex associations unworkable and a little dubious. Perhaps in years to come, business leaders and artists alike will find the idea of men-only clubs a little odd, alien, unfulfilling.

But we must also be careful here: past inequality must not be conflated with future fraternity. For many Australians, the desire to associate with their own sex will remain, regardless of legislation. They might not be a majority. And they won't want this day in, day out. Nonetheless, there will be an hour, perhaps at the end of the workday, or after the day's domestic chores are done, when Melburnians will long for a fine wine, a good couch and the company of fellow men or women.

This is certainly a curious impulse - one would think age, class or ethnicity were more important than gender. But whether it's sporting, parenting or travel clubs, some Australians genuinely enjoy time with their own sex. This isn't necessarily about misogyny or misandry. It offers a simple fellowship, uncomplicated by gender relations. It allows certain parts of our personality to be gratified, exercised and refined.

This is why we have words such as ''mateship'' and ''sisterhood'' - they express the strange bonds that are forged by our gender experiences. This has less to do with networking and exclusion, and more to do with our common human longing for fellowship. And we stifle this at our peril.

In the end, I suspect the day will be won by the Attorney-General, or his ideals. If our society is to progress, patriarchy must be replaced - more women will be educated, empowered and independent. They will have equal access to opportunities, and the ambition and skills to seize them. Gender will remain at the heart of identity, but will no longer be a barrier to aspiration and achievement.

If this happens, our businesses, parliaments and public sphere will increasingly be mixed-gender affairs - and rightly so. But the urge for single-sex fraternity will remain. If our ''elite'' clubs are still around, they will suddenly have good grounds for exemption: offering a few rare hours of civilised, convivial single-sex society. It's not for me, but neither are ''boys' nights out'' and footy trips.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/the-urge-for-singlesex-fraternity-will-remain-strong-20091126-juhd.html

(Photo: Savage Club, Melbourne (http://www.melbournesavageclub.com/msc/Default.aspx))

bob
21st March 10, 02:01 AM
Has anyone tried to ban women's only gyms?

nihilist
21st March 10, 02:02 AM
Speaking strictly for myself, the smell of vagina clouds my thinking.

DAYoung
21st March 10, 02:05 AM
Has anyone tried to ban women's only gyms?

I don't know. But they did ban a women's travel club.

DAYoung
21st March 10, 02:06 AM
Speaking strictly for myself, the smell of vagina clouds my thinking.

Understandable. Perhaps keep your pants on?

bob
21st March 10, 02:14 AM
Speaking strictly for myself, the smell of vagina clouds my thinking.

I think you're thinking of a different kind of gentleman's club.

nihilist
21st March 10, 02:25 AM
Seriously.

You guys know exactly what I'm talking about.

DAYoung
21st March 10, 02:32 AM
Seriously.

You guys know exactly what I'm talking about.

But seriously, the 'vagina equals stupid' is actually an argument for the clubs I'm thinking of. Men really do say: "With women around, I just can't relax, talk, enjoy myself."

nihilist
21st March 10, 02:36 AM
There is definitely a shift in group dynamics I like to call the Lily Effect.
Plus there is the whole protective alpha male thing that can hinder frank discussion on a whole range of issues.

bob
21st March 10, 02:37 AM
Women are smart and subtle enough to be able to converse with each other without advertising the fact that men are not wanted.

nihilist
21st March 10, 02:40 AM
Women are smart and subtle enough to be able to converse with each other without advertising the fact that men are not wanted.

It all depends upon the individuals in question.

DAYoung
21st March 10, 02:46 AM
There is definitely a shift in group dynamics I like to call the Lily Effect.
Plus there is the whole protective alpha male thing that can hinder frank discussion on a whole range of issues.

I've seen you white-knighting with Lily, c'mon you old chivalrous Oregonian.

DAYoung
21st March 10, 02:46 AM
Women are smart and subtle enough to be able to converse with each other without advertising the fact that men are not wanted.

Some women. Stop generalising, you pig.

nihilist
21st March 10, 03:04 AM
I've seen you white-knighting with Lily, c'mon you old chivalrous Oregonian.

I didn't think that encouraging someone to be a less irksome poster was considered chivalry.

DAYoung
21st March 10, 03:13 AM
I didn't think that encouraging someone to be a less irksome poster was considered chivalry.

When you do it, Reese, it's like watching an old, Southern gentleman hold the door open for a nun.

A big nun.

nihilist
21st March 10, 03:15 AM
I will bow to your insight.

DAYoung
21st March 10, 03:21 AM
I will bow to your insight.

Not in front of the ladies.

Speaking of which, is Lily around? You blokes don't seem bothered enough.

Lily. Lily. Lily. /mirror

nihilist
21st March 10, 03:31 AM
Her voracious appetite for attention and approval was left unfulfilled by the indifference of the jaded denizens of Sociocide.

DAYoung
21st March 10, 03:55 AM
Her voracious appetite for attention and approval was left unfulfilled by the indifference of the jaded denizens of Sociocide.

Off to Bullshido, huh? Always new blood there...

syberia
21st March 10, 04:26 AM
But seriously, the 'vagina equals stupid' is actually an argument for the clubs I'm thinking of. Men really do say: "With women around, I just can't relax, talk, enjoy myself."


I've heard this, and similar things, a few times. Particularly on the issue of sports. I, personally, don’t really get the idea of ‘men’s only’ clubs and things. But then again, I never really understood ‘women only’ clubs, classes or retreats either.
Because people can’t relax around the other gender?
Because they feel the other gender is there for a different reason?

I can sort of understand the reasoning, I guess, depending on upbringing or past experiences. But I really don’t see the appeal.

Cullion
21st March 10, 08:26 AM
Private clubs, yes, it's a very simple question of freedom of association for me.

Publicly funded groups which exclude on the basis of ethnicity or gender? Those I'm not so keen on.

FickleFingerOfFate
21st March 10, 09:18 AM
Segregation is only acceptable if it's privately funded.

Got it.

Kiko
21st March 10, 09:20 AM
*puts on fake mustache and sips port*

Cullion
21st March 10, 09:23 AM
Let me put it another way. I'm planning a poker night, and I'm not inviting any women, it's explicitly a 'boys night'. I might do it every week if I want to, in a private building, and charge membership fees to cover the costs

That's a private men's club. I believe it's my right to discriminate like that. Using public money to do it is a different issue, and I wouldn't approve of it.

HappyOldGuy
21st March 10, 12:16 PM
I say leave em alone. The only compelling argument against them is that it creates an unfair environment for women in the workplace, because they are cut out of business deals. And I just think that that ship has sailed. Women don't need that kind of protection today.

partyboy
21st March 10, 12:30 PM
*puts on fake mustache and sips port*

you forgot the monocle

Cullion
21st March 10, 01:58 PM
I say leave em alone. The only compelling argument against them is that it creates an unfair environment for women in the workplace, because they are cut out of business deals. And I just think that that ship has sailed. Women don't need that kind of protection today.

I'd go further and say that banning official men's clubs would never have stopped men who wanted to from excluding women from business deals anyway. You can annoy a man by not allowing him to have an official men-only club, but you cannot force him to think of women differently by banning him from doing things in his social life. People of the same religious denomination might favour each other in business too, 'ban churches, temples and synagogues' is no answer.

If you want to exclude a certain person, or group of people, from a private conversation, then it's pretty much impossible to stop you. I think it's actually harder to persuade people to take a more liberal attitude across gender/ethnicity/class barriers by stomping around giving orders. It just creates grievance and antagonism. I'm of the view that political correctness engenders social grievances by stigmatising lots of well meaning people and making genuine bigots look like victims. That's enough Thought Police, thanks.

Refusing to publicly fund institutions like 'men only' universities is a different matter, because women have to pay tax too.

danno
21st March 10, 05:37 PM
there is a women's only gym near where i live. i'm going to storm in there and abuse them because i'm not allowed to join. even though i don't want to join anyway.

danno
21st March 10, 05:38 PM
LS37SNYjg8w

Cullion
21st March 10, 05:45 PM
there is a women's only gym near where i live. i'm going to storm in there and abuse them because i'm not allowed to join. even though i don't want to join anyway.

Sexual frustration is a different issue, and I fully support you in your quest.

Remember, 'No' means 'Yes', and 'Yes' means 'Harder'.

Godspeed, good knight.

danno
21st March 10, 06:26 PM
My wombat doesn't like you. He has a knack of picking the evil ones.

WarPhalange
21st March 10, 06:27 PM
But seriously, the 'vagina equals stupid' is actually an argument for the clubs I'm thinking of. Men really do say: "With women around, I just can't relax, talk, enjoy myself."

Either the men are horrible geeks or the women they hang out with are hags. I have no trouble being myself around women. Me. Being myself. I've only been slapped once, in fact.

Cullion
21st March 10, 06:34 PM
Men's clubs aren't for people who are awkward with the idea of talking to women. They're for married men who are a bit fucking bored with women's company, now and then. Just as married women need time away from their husbands.

Cullion
21st March 10, 06:37 PM
But there's nothing wrong - legally or morally - with being old or fussy. What Hulls is getting at is something else: a patriarchal vision of the world, where men (usually rich, older and white) sit by the furnace of power, and shut the boiler room door on women. And he sees this, it seems, as a relic of the 19th century, with its strictly defined gender roles, and celebration of the rich, powerful, Anglo-Saxon gentleman.

This 'Hulls' character is a horrible authoritarian. Essentially, this Attorney General wants to bring the full force of law against a social scene he personally finds distasteful.

That's a horrible world-view guaranteed to diminish freedom for all of us, whatever happened to just not mixing with people whose ideas you found distasteful? I do so all the time, but it rarely occurs to me to have their social scene made illegal.

Would I personally want to join a men only club ? or a white people only club?

No. But that's not the point.

Artful Dentures
21st March 10, 06:50 PM
How about mens only Golf Clubs?

Whats the general thought on that?

Cullion
21st March 10, 06:55 PM
Does it take tax money? if no, then fine.

Artful Dentures
21st March 10, 06:57 PM
Does it take tax money? if no, then fine.


What if its the only golf course locally available?

Cullion
21st March 10, 07:01 PM
Then start your own instead of trying to legally force your way into a private one built by people who didn't want you there, or drive further. Golf courses aren't public utilities you deserve access to simply by living near them.

Artful Dentures
21st March 10, 07:04 PM
Then start your own instead of trying to legally force your way into a private one built by people who didn't want you there, or drive further. Golf courses aren't public utilities you deserve access to simply by living near them.


What if the bank won't lend me money to start building one cause I am a woman?

Cullion
21st March 10, 07:07 PM
What if the bank won't lend me money to start building one cause I am a woman?

What if the bank won't lend you enough to buy a house as big and as nice as the guy who lives next door ? Do you want the govt. to give you a right to hang out in his lounge drinking coffee because it's prettier than your house, too ?

What about just having the legal right to use the guy's tennis court ?

Where do your entitlements end?

I'm going to explain a deep economic truth that you may never have encountered before:

Sometimes you can't afford things that you want, and that's a shame, but it doesn't automatically become everybody else's responsibility to provide them for you.. I'm sorry if that sounded harsh, but it seemed like the simplest way to explain it.

I'm just not going to listen to any social science 101 crap about access to business and career opportunities at this point, so save it for somebody who cares.

The answer is no. And if you don't agree, then, well, I'll guess you'll never elect me as President.

Commodore Pipes
21st March 10, 08:05 PM
I can't elect you president anyway, because you weren't born in the US (as far as I know.) So you are totally discriminated against by the people of the United States.

Cullion
21st March 10, 08:11 PM
There should be a law against that.

Artful Dentures
21st March 10, 09:08 PM
What if the bank won't lend you enough to buy a house as big and as nice as the guy who lives next door ? Do you want the govt. to give you a right to hang out in his lounge drinking coffee because it's prettier than your house, too ?

What about just having the legal right to use the guy's tennis court ?

Where do your entitlements end?

I'm going to explain a deep economic truth that you may never have encountered before:

Sometimes you can't afford things that you want, and that's a shame, but it doesn't automatically become everybody else's responsibility to provide them for you.. I'm sorry if that sounded harsh, but it seemed like the simplest way to explain it.

I'm just not going to listen to any social science 101 crap about access to business and career opportunities at this point, so save it for somebody who cares.

The answer is no. And if you don't agree, then, well, I'll guess you'll never elect me as President.

What if the bank won't lend me money only because I am a woman?

syberia
21st March 10, 11:29 PM
What if the bank won't lend me money only because I am a woman?
Are you a poor woman? A woman with a bad credit history? Or is it just because you're a woman?

Because otherwise I think there might be some kind of rule against that. It's pretty out and out discrimination.

But i dont think many banks would do that. Money is money, after all.

The issue here is that people, in general, can socialise with whoever they want. The goverment can't force us to include people we dont want into our social circles.
I, personally, dont see why some are excluded based on gender, race, religion or colour. But people are allowed thier opinions.

Adouglasmhor
22nd March 10, 01:42 AM
We had a men only chapter of the united ex services association in Motherwell (the town where I work). They allowed women associate membership only until they were boycotted by various ex servicemen and guests refused to visit after they refused full membership (and use of the members bar, discounts on booking activities and facilities and a vote in club politics) to a local ex servicewoman who had gained the Military Medal. The committee soon changed the rules through public and member pressure, not state interference.

You see that no law just being shown up to their peers as out of order.

WarPhalange
22nd March 10, 01:56 AM
Then start your own instead of trying to legally force your way into a private one built by people who didn't want you there, or drive further. Golf courses aren't public utilities you deserve access to simply by living near them.

This is what I hate about Libertarianism/The Free Market (TM). It assumes that it's possible to just start your own competing business. "Drive further" is your only option in lots of cases. How much further? Two hours further? Just because you're a woman? Correct me if I'm wrong, but these ideas came about when there were no Wal-Marts and everything was "White Men Only" anyway. If your local Ma & Pa store is shafting people, then yeah, it's possible to open your own Ma & Pa shop. If it's Wal-Mart that's doing it, then GG cuz you're fucked, buddy.

If you really wanted a totally free market, then the entire world would be owned by China by now.

Or if not that, then the giants of whatever industry would get together and raise the shit out of their prices.

Anyway, people would be foaming at the mouth over a "White's Only" club, so this entire discussion is stupid. If you're tired with your wife, then say "Look, honey, I want some time alone." I don't see why you'd have to go out of your way to avoid ALL women if it's just your wife that's bothering you.

Adouglasmhor
22nd March 10, 01:58 AM
Not all women, just women who are not in the "entertainment industry".

syberia
22nd March 10, 02:01 AM
Anyway, people would be foaming at the mouth over a "White's Only" club,

You're telling me there isn't one white supremicist party in the world?

Adouglasmhor
22nd March 10, 02:09 AM
You're telling me there isn't one white supremicist party in the world?
Are you telling us no one foams at the mouth about them?

syberia
22nd March 10, 02:22 AM
Are you telling us no one foams at the mouth about them?

No. I dont like them. I dont like gender specific clubs, sports events or social attitudes either. But i can't make everyone agree with me.

I understand that people who partake in white supremacy are usually pretty idiotic or short sighted. Not to mention they breed hate, discrimination and pass rascism onto thier friends and family.
But that is thier opinion. They are well within thier rights to have such stupid beliefs.
That said, social inequality is a big problem, and I wish I had a magical solution for it. But I dont, but i dont think it will start by telling people that thier opinions are outlawed.

JohnnyCache
22nd March 10, 02:41 AM
ffs PL, you don't have the right to golf. If a private golf course is the only one in the area, it also doesn't serve people with no money, just as a private grocery store doesn't serve as a food bank for people with no money. Golf is well on the other side of the line of what the government MUST provide.

There is such a thing as a municipal golf course, like a city park or pool - and you do have the right to lobby your politicians to create new ones.

JohnnyCache
22nd March 10, 02:47 AM
This is what I hate about Libertarianism/The Free Market (TM). It assumes that it's possible to just start your own competing business. "Drive further" is your only option in lots of cases. How much further? Two hours further? Just because you're a woman? Correct me if I'm wrong, but these ideas came about when there were no Wal-Marts and everything was "White Men Only" anyway. If your local Ma & Pa store is shafting people, then yeah, it's possible to open your own Ma & Pa shop. If it's Wal-Mart that's doing it, then GG cuz you're fucked, buddy.

If you really wanted a totally free market, then the entire world would be owned by China by now.

Or if not that, then the giants of whatever industry would get together and raise the shit out of their prices.

Anyway, people would be foaming at the mouth over a "White's Only" club, so this entire discussion is stupid. If you're tired with your wife, then say "Look, honey, I want some time alone." I don't see why you'd have to go out of your way to avoid ALL women if it's just your wife that's bothering you.

is wal mart throwing up cheap golf courses? If not, your rant has almost nothing to do with the thread.

Ajamil
22nd March 10, 01:32 PM
Lrn to Hindu - just throw an altar in the club and call it religious. You're allowed to discriminate against genders if it religious.

I think Dionysus might be a good one.

Cullion
22nd March 10, 03:03 PM
This is what I hate about Libertarianism/The Free Market (TM). It assumes that it's possible to just start your own competing business.

Or you just go without the thing. It's a golf course dude. You're not entitled to everything you want just because you can see that somebody else has it.




If you really wanted a totally free market, then the entire world would be owned by China by now.

No it wouldn't.



Anyway, people would be foaming at the mouth over a "White's Only" club, so this entire discussion is stupid.

I wouldn't, not if it was a private club. Just like I don't foam at the mouth over a black people only club, or a muslims only club.



If you're tired with your wife, then say "Look, honey, I want some time alone." I don't see why you'd have to go out of your way to avoid ALL women if it's just your wife that's bothering you.

What about if a few guys felt that way and wanted a club where they could go? and who are you to decide whether they 'should' want to spend time with women? That's actually quite a fascist opinion you've got there.

Commodore Pipes
22nd March 10, 04:41 PM
What about a trolololo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8&feature=youtube_gdata)-only club?

Artful Dentures
22nd March 10, 08:01 PM
Can a privately owned golf course limit membership to people who are not the same colour or religion?

Cullion
22nd March 10, 08:02 PM
I think they should be allowed to, yes. I wouldn't join one myself. I never thought that Morehouse deserved to be closed down when it only admitted black students, no do I think that I should be entitled to join the Women's Institute in the UK, or receive money from a Jewish scholarship fund.

If somebody really wants to spend some time on private property only amongst company meeting some social criteria of common background, whether that be gender, ethnic background or religion, I don't see why they should be prevented from doing so. You're certainly not going to make them genuinely like any member of another group by banning them from doing what they wanted.

Ajamil
22nd March 10, 08:57 PM
You're allowed to have private property advertised as for a specific religion. Is this OK because ideally you can change your religion? In a way, you can change your sex these days, so if you really wanted to join a men's club...

Zendetta
22nd March 10, 09:20 PM
In a way, you can change your sex these days, so if you really wanted to join a men's club...

Not so fast, Broski...

whether or not to admit transexuals to "Womyn's Gatherings" is a hotly debated (and utterly loltastic) topic on various feminazi forums.

Ajamil
22nd March 10, 09:55 PM
REALLY?! Do link.

Artful Dentures
23rd March 10, 11:36 AM
I like men's clubs. They have cool showers, saunas and hot tubs, TVs playing educational movies everywhere, private rooms with beds, and these nifty mazes with holes in the wall that all sorts of lovely things come out of.


Where is this paradise?

Is there a crazy slide?

KO'd N DOA
23rd March 10, 12:17 PM
Forced integration of sexes is cruel and thoughtless.

In African developmental thought...westerners found it cruel and unfortunate that women were designated by culture to go get water, often miles away, and to carry it back on their heads. Early Aid workers saw their plight, and brought wells and delivery trucks.

When asked, women fondly remenised about the time they got away from all the domestic work, sexual demands of husbands, and abuse by the mother in laws or other more senior wives.

And more over this, the water drawers clubs had given them a sense of community and sisterhood, a good source of gossip - through which they gained power.

Modernity and forced integration of naturally occuring sexual division of task and labour...ruined these daily social gatherings.

Men take heed...they just want you home to do more chores.

Robot Jesus
23rd March 10, 12:46 PM
I think they should be allowed to, yes. I wouldn't join one myself. I never thought that Morehouse deserved to be closed down when it only admitted black students, no do I think that I should be entitled to join the Women's Institute in the UK, or receive money from a Jewish scholarship fund.

If somebody really wants to spend some time on private property only amongst company meeting some social criteria of common background, whether that be gender, ethnic background or religion, I don't see why they should be prevented from doing so. You're certainly not going to make them genuinely like any member of another group by banning them from doing what they wanted.

I've been waiting a long time to say this

ready

THIS IS UNCONSTIUTIONAL THERFORE EVIL, OUR FOUNDING TRUDEAU WOULD HAVE FOUND THIS ABHORENT, SOMETHING ABOUT THE BLOOD OF TYRANTS AND GARDINING; GUNS GUNS GUNS, WARRBLEGARBLE, HITLER.

bob
23rd March 10, 03:24 PM
On occasions when I seek the exclusive social company of males I wish to be served drinks in a timely and efficient manner by attractive females. This club therefore fails.

Artful Dentures
23rd March 10, 03:28 PM
I think the one in Seattle is called "Club Z"


Goddamn it

The Gays have all the fun!!!


Really if there wasn't the "have sex with an another dude" aspect to being Gay, being Gay would be the best thing ever.

WarPhalange
23rd March 10, 03:51 PM
ffs PL, you don't have the right to golf. If a private golf course is the only one in the area, it also doesn't serve people with no money, just as a private grocery store doesn't serve as a food bank for people with no money. Golf is well on the other side of the line of what the government MUST provide.

There is such a thing as a municipal golf course, like a city park or pool - and you do have the right to lobby your politicians to create new ones.


is wal mart throwing up cheap golf courses? If not, your rant has almost nothing to do with the thread.

lolwut

Johnny, were you born this stupid, or were you raised that way? Do read some previous posts before responding to mine and going "HOW DO MAKE POINT???"

Cullion brought up The Free Market (TM) and my point about Wal-Mart tied in to that.

Cullion
23rd March 10, 06:09 PM
Yeah, but your point was nuts. You basically said 'if anything's available to some people, it has to be available to me'. That's not right.

Cullion
23rd March 10, 06:10 PM
Not so fast, Broski...

whether or not to admit transexuals to "Womyn's Gatherings" is a hotly debated (and utterly loltastic) topic on various feminazi forums.

Why are you reading those forums ?

You've got 24 hours to explain yourself.

Zendetta
23rd March 10, 06:32 PM
Why are you reading those forums ?

You've got 24 hours to explain yourself.

Shawarma linked to them on a thread about some kid whose feminazi mom hates him for jacking off.

Reassured?

Cullion
23rd March 10, 06:36 PM
That was a long time ago bro.

Zendetta
23rd March 10, 07:32 PM
What can I say? It left an impression. It affored me a glimpse into a world that, despite being in close proximity to me, I am really not privy to.

It was an eye-opener to look past the birkensticks and unshorn legs - it also confirmed my suspicions that man-hating bitches are just as twisted, bigotted, and generally fascist as the patriarchy they pretend to despise.

As a friend of mine puts it, "if you don't like Big Brother, wait'll you see Big Mother."

HappyOldGuy
23rd March 10, 07:35 PM
Bearing in mind that most hairy legged birkenstocked dykie types are more bothered by it than you are.

But yeah, there is some serious nuttiness out there.

Robot Jesus
23rd March 10, 07:50 PM
the closer any subjugated group gets to equality with the master class, the shriller more baseless, and more annoying their cries become.

Zendetta
23rd March 10, 08:12 PM
Bearing in mind that most hairy legged birkenstocked dykie types are more bothered by it than you are.

But yeah, there is some serious nuttiness out there.

Oh, for sure. There are a ton of cool dykes in the Bay Area. Its like since they have a critical mass of acceptance here, they don't always feel the need to go all Dworkin.