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KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 04:19 PM
Hi Guyz,

This is not a "how do go postal?" thread.

I work in an NGO type of office, and recently there was lots of buzz about major expansions, with new directorships coming up. Directors make $$$$, so who wouldn't want that.

As a 'white person' I am not eligable for promotion. (discrimination for ethnic minorities is allowed under the Canadian Charter of Rights). No crying or offence taken on my side.

I was told this long ago, and now the reality of it is finally sinking in.

But at the same time it might be good to have something to look forward to. A goal, a possibility. How many "I worked in the mail room and become CEO from hard work" kind of stories can one take when your story is, "they hired me cause they needed a white man to do the work, but also to pretend you don't exist".

The corner office, parking spot, a higher salary scale, company perks, congratulations on a life long service to the oppressed, are tangible dreams, even if you realize you can't be the face of the organization. NGO

Any of you come to the realization that your current or former job (once so perfect) is ultimatly going nowhere, and have to take steps to ensure you have a future?

What did you do?

KO'd

Cullion
18th February 10, 04:23 PM
My first thought is a hard, honest question. I hope you understand me from my posts to be a pretty right-wing kind of guy who doubts and publicly questions political correctness fairly frequently.

The unpleasant question is this: Hand on heart, is there anything about your work that feels like a 'mismatch' which may explain your lack of promotion aside from any kind of ethnic favouritism ?

I'm not asking this to be a dick.

bob
18th February 10, 04:24 PM
I went blackface.

Srsly, why the fuck would you even work there?

Angry Mandrill
18th February 10, 04:40 PM
put into it what you're getting out of it. why bust your ass when there's no possibility of reward? be the laziest, slackest muthafucka in the pile. no overtime, no above and beyond, no nuthin. this approach has made me love my job.

HappyOldGuy
18th February 10, 04:41 PM
I respect that sometimes there is satisfaction in working somewhere with a mission you believe in that goes beyond money. I can't value those things for you.

If I was stuck doing stuff I didn't enjoy with no chance of improvement, I would leave.

If I was just a little ticked about the money and feeling unnapreciated, I would talk to my boss and give it a chance to fade over time. If it kept bothering me more as time went on, I would leave.

Cullion
18th February 10, 04:49 PM
If koa was told that word for word, in yurop he'd have an unquestionable legal case. Our 'politically correct' public bodies are allowed to say things like 'we want ethnic minorities to apply for this job because we want them to be fully represented here' in job adverts, and offer unofficial preference in advancement, but if somebody bluntly says 'we're denying you a promotion because u r white' then they've broken the law.

I'll take koa's story at face value for now, but I'm surprised things have gotten so corrupt in Canada.

bob
18th February 10, 04:50 PM
It's not even about the money. Why work somewhere where your contribution is valued so lowly that you've been told you're no chance of going anywhere? Even if you had no aspirations to do the top job...

jubei33
18th February 10, 04:53 PM
time for the 'ass cake':

Fill an ass shaped cake with balloons of hydrogen sulfide and fed ex it to management on an appropriate holiday. Write something cryptic on the cake like: "whatsamatter? Afraid I'll make a stink?"

profit

socratic
18th February 10, 04:54 PM
I find it really hard to believe that such discrimination WOULDN'T be illegal in Canada. If they actually said to you "Sorry, you're white, no promotions for you" and gave no other reason, go get a free consultation with a lawyer.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 04:55 PM
My first thought is a hard, honest question. I hope you understand me from my posts to be a pretty right-wing kind of guy who doubts and publicly questions political correctness fairly frequently.

The unpleasant question is this: Hand on heart, is there anything about your work that feels like a 'mismatch' which may explain your lack of promotion aside from any kind of ethnic favouritism ?

I'm not asking this to be a dick.

When you chose to work for an NGO, or to chose a carear path that leads either to an NGO or government service, the goal ostensibly is to do your part to contribute to society and make the world a better place.

Maybe its sociocide's divergent views on every issue that I have been exposed to, perhaps the fact that now married I have to chose between what is in the best interest of my own whims and mysteries, and what will best provide for the family unit, house, and eventually retirement.

In either case, I am left after this pass over with thinking how many of these can I stomach and still wish to work here, and how many I can afford.

I work for an ethnically based NGO, so being the White Man (one of many including lawyers accountants, engineers, lobbyists ect.) with a skill set that is absent in the NGO ethnic base is why I am there in the first place.

12+ years into this path, however, the 'noble' idea of lending my remaining lifes energies to aiding 'the oppressed', is starting to lose its pius santimonious nature and what drove me before - the nice butterflies and rose coloured glasses - are not as satisfying anymore.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:00 PM
I went blackface.

Srsly, why the fuck would you even work there?

Okay.

You always wanted to be a dentist. You go to school, apprentice, get licenced, and then after a decade realize that you hate bad breath, crying babies and bounced checks, and people who after all that time still do not floss.

I am not a dentist.

socratic
18th February 10, 05:00 PM
Talk to your boss about this. Tell them you feel you are being unfairly discriminated against. If that doesn't help then leave. Potentially get a lawyer if they're particularly unhelpful ("Go fuck yourself Joe, you're a white man and we told you you're not going to get promoted.").

Cullion
18th February 10, 05:01 PM
Alright. Tell us about your other enthusiasms. We're all more than just our jobs.

Cullion
18th February 10, 05:02 PM
Talk to your boss about this. Tell them you feel you are being unfairly discriminated against. If that doesn't help then leave. Potentially get a lawyer if they're particularly unhelpful ("Go fuck yourself Joe, you're a white man and we told you you're not going to get promoted.").

sshh for now thanks. this is way outside your life experience. just read.

bob
18th February 10, 05:02 PM
Okay.

You always wanted to be a dentist. You go to school, apprentice, get licenced, and then after a decade realize that you hate bad breath, crying babies and bounced checks, and people who after all that time still do not floss.

I am not a dentist.

How old are you? Do you have kids? Any plans for them in the near future?

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:03 PM
put into it what you're getting out of it. why bust your ass when there's no possibility of reward? be the laziest, slackest muthafucka in the pile. no overtime, no above and beyond, no nuthin. this approach has made me love my job.

That is a possibility, that I will consider. But facing 30 odd years till pension kicks in, might just rot what makes me me.

Also the pressure at home to be 'upwardly mobile' is intense.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:05 PM
I respect that sometimes there is satisfaction in working somewhere with a mission you believe in that goes beyond money. I can't value those things for you.

If I was stuck doing stuff I didn't enjoy with no chance of improvement, I would leave.

If I was just a little ticked about the money and feeling unnapreciated, I would talk to my boss and give it a chance to fade over time. If it kept bothering me more as time went on, I would leave.

I enjoyed my job, my work has been fulfilling, but now I am looking at where to go next....like I've done what I came to do...and now time to move on.

socratic
18th February 10, 05:05 PM
-

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:09 PM
If koa was told that word for word, in yurop he'd have an unquestionable legal case. Our 'politically correct' public bodies are allowed to say things like 'we want ethnic minorities to apply for this job because we want them to be fully represented here' in job adverts, and offer unofficial preference in advancement, but if somebody bluntly says 'we're denying you a promotion because u r white' then they've broken the law.

I'll take koa's story at face value for now, but I'm surprised things have gotten so corrupt in Canada.

I work for an ethnic minority, who has a function to fill - but lacks the capacity. Hence all of the White, people who are either on staff or as consultants to carry out the bulk of the expertise.

Some smuggly call us enablers.

WarPhalange
18th February 10, 05:09 PM
Find a job with a different NGO. You can still do things For Great Justice and finally get what you deserve.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:11 PM
Talk to your boss about this. Tell them you feel you are being unfairly discriminated against. If that doesn't help then leave. Potentially get a lawyer if they're particularly unhelpful ("Go fuck yourself Joe, you're a white man and we told you you're not going to get promoted.").

Actually I have discussed it with my old boss, but the guy who go promoted is now taking his place - so that will be an awkward conversation indeed.

bob
18th February 10, 05:11 PM
I work for an ethnic minority, who has a function to fill - but lacks the capacity. Hence all of the White, people who are either on staff or as consultants to carry out the bulk of the expertise.

Some smuggly call us enablers.

Start your own company providing consulting services to multiple NGOs. Be your own boss, get paid more and still do what you enjoy doing.

jvjim
18th February 10, 05:11 PM
The idea of a minority NGO that blatantly discriminates based on any criteria is so offense it makes me sick. Leave immediately.

socratic
18th February 10, 05:16 PM
Actually I have discussed it with my old boss, but the guy who go promoted is now taking his place - so that will be an awkward conversation indeed.
Maybe don't talk to the guy whose job you deserve then.

Zendetta
18th February 10, 05:17 PM
This is painful beyond bearing. I can understand not wanting the PR face of such an organization to be some white dood, but the fact that Unnamed Ethnic Minority simply doesn't have the skills to accomplish the desired results is pretty much proof-positive against the idea of racial hiring/promotions.

Get The Fuck Outta There. By the time you get your pension you will be as bitter as battery acid.


Also the pressure at home to be 'upwardly mobile' is intense.

See, this is what you get for marrying a white woman.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:17 PM
Alright. Tell us about your other enthusiasms. We're all more than just our jobs.

My job was life out of necessity for many years, where the needs of work did take precidence over my own... and it was truly fantastic to get behind a cause, and pour your energies into something you believe in completely.

However life happens. I'm 37, married, mortgaged, wanting to start a brood, so my own needs and wants are coming to the forefront over work, and they are not as in sync as they once were.

Other enthusiasms, I have retured to Judo as a stress outlet, and because I use to teach JJJ and missed being in shape.

Cullion
18th February 10, 05:18 PM
I work for an ethnic minority, who has a function to fill - but lacks the capacity. Hence all of the White, people who are either on staff or as consultants to carry out the bulk of the expertise.

Some smuggly call us enablers.

Why not stop wasting your life over white guilt and get a real job?

I bet that's what your wife said. <BADDUM.. tissshhh>

Now, let's look for something new and sensible. What are you good at ?

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:19 PM
The idea of a minority NGO that blatantly discriminates based on any criteria is so offense it makes me sick. Leave immediately.

Noted and thanks.

In this economic downturn I would have to move provinces, which I am not prepared to do at this time.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:21 PM
See, this is what you get for marrying a white woman.

A spanish - white women? I was not innoculated against that.

Cullion
18th February 10, 05:23 PM
If you think about it, Minority NGOs exist to discriminate in favour of their own group. It's not like they're functioning businesses or charities that rely on voluntary donations or purchases.

bob
18th February 10, 05:29 PM
My job was life out of necessity for many years, where the needs of work did take precidence over my own... and it was truly fantastic to get behind a cause, and pour your energies into something you believe in completely.

However life happens. I'm 37, married, mortgaged, wanting to start a brood, so my own needs and wants are coming to the forefront over work, and they are not as in sync as they once were.

Other enthusiasms, I have retured to Judo as a stress outlet, and because I use to teach JJJ and missed being in shape.

Whatever you do, if you're going to make a change do so before you have kids. It's going to get a lot harder afterwards.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:40 PM
Why not stop wasting your life over white guilt and get a real job?


As WASP in Canada white guilt is my birthrite.



I bet that's what your wife said. <BADDUM.. tissshhh>


You tap phones?



Now, let's look for something new and sensible. What are you good at ?


Danno wont like or believe this, I work in the environmental sector. Have a Uni degree, and 12 years experience. I got passed over by a guy roughly the same age, High School, and some LEO training. Nice guy, with the right ethinic make up.

I am not upset about that. That came with the field.

I learned that lesson back was working in rural Africa as a teacher, I knew the difference between black and white so very clear. Now that I work with another ethnic group, I am not confused as to why I am there, just making sure I don't get stuck.

No. My issue and OP, is I've got this far - seen the writting on the wall, and now want to take steps to ensure I don't "piss away" my life and become
"as bitter as battery acid" as Zendetta put it.

A consultant is the route I am thinking, but the trend is towards the Green Economy and Carbon Credits, a financing and economic approach, and less about - development and related environmental concerns. Months back I applied for graduate school as a potential option, still waiting to see where this leads.

The intention however was to continue to work here...now it is becoming clear in the past week that this may not be where I want to be for the next 30 years. Just not ready to move provinces.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:46 PM
If you think about it, Minority NGOs exist to discriminate in favour of their own group. It's not like they're functioning businesses or charities that rely on voluntary donations or purchases.

Which is why there is a loop hole in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.


<H2 class=Subheading>Equality Rights


Equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/charte/1.html#codese:15)
15. (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/charte/1.html#codese:15) (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Affirmative action programs (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/charte/1.html#codese:15-ss:_2_)
(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.(84)

</H2>
I have argued this with the lawyers for years, from the theoretical. Only since this pass - over did it really sink in.

socratic
18th February 10, 05:49 PM
Wow. That's uh... Wow. How the hell did that actually get in the constitution?

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 05:49 PM
Whatever you do, if you're going to make a change do so before you have kids. It's going to get a lot harder afterwards.

Agreed.

Cullion
18th February 10, 06:08 PM
As WASP in Canada white guilt is my birthrite.

Do the natives thank you for sharing the antibiotics and teaching them how to read ?

Didn't think so.




You tap phones?

I'm omniscient, it comes with being a mod.



Danno wont like or believe this, I work in the environmental sector. Have a Uni degree, and 12 years experience. I got passed over by a guy roughly the same age, High School, and some LEO training. Nice guy, with the right ethinic make up.

I am not upset about that. That came with the field.

Danno's not that dull at all, once he decides to focus and really fight about something for real. You're essentially working for a social engineering function at the ultimate behest of very out of touch and slightly crazy rich white people. That's how politically correct 'institutions' always work.



No. My issue and OP, is I've got this far - seen the writting on the wall, and now want to take steps to ensure I don't "piss away" my life and become
"as bitter as battery acid" as Zendetta put it.

I'm sorry for repeating myself. What are you good at ?. If it's not clear, I'm not referring to paper credentials.



A consultant is the route I am thinking, but the trend is towards the Green Economy and Carbon Credits, a financing and economic approach, and less about - development and related environmental concerns.

Feels like a short term 'tide over' option.



Months back I applied for graduate school as a potential option, still waiting to see where this leads.

What do you want to study?



The intention however was to continue to work here...now it is becoming clear in the past week that this may not be where I want to be for the next 30 years. Just not ready to move provinces.

Well, we're adults, all this shit matters. Please answer my other questions so we can try and build a balanced picture. You've obviously got to match enthusiasms with local availability and finances, we just need a fuller picture to give real advice.

Cullion
18th February 10, 06:09 PM
Wow. That's uh... Wow. How the hell did that actually get in the constitution?

People like you, but older, voted for it.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 06:15 PM
Wow. That's uh... Wow. How the hell did that actually get in the constitution?

I am not the only one who disagrees with certain sections. This link to the archive is a short clip of a protester in 1984 who tried to ammend the Constitution.

http://archives.cbc.ca/on_this_day/10/09/

Commodore Pipes
18th February 10, 06:16 PM
The corner office, parking spot, a higher salary scale, company perks, congratulations on a life long service to the oppressed, are tangible dreams, even if you realize you can't be the face of the organization.



Are all of these unavailable to you, or only some? Because the only one of these I personally care about, when it really comes down to it, is money. They can keep the corner office. They can keep the parking spot and the executive washroom. Sure, it hurts to see favorites get promoted for no reason or to be bossed by an idiot, but like Cullion said, we are more than our jobs, and I derive a lot of pleasure from my non-working life.

But if you can never make more money, beyond a cost-of-living increase... yeah, get out of there.

socratic
18th February 10, 06:18 PM
People like you, but older, voted for it.
I knew we should have shot those hippies when we had the chance.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 06:34 PM
I'm sorry for repeating myself. What are you good at ?. If it's not clear, I'm not referring to paper credentials.

What do you want to study?

Well, we're adults, all this shit matters. Please answer my other questions so we can try and build a balanced picture. You've obviously got to match enthusiasms with local availability and finances, we just need a fuller picture to give real advice.


I have applied to an Msc. in Environment, specifically in the managemnt area. Baby boomers are retiring in Ottawa, and I want to be well positioned.

Most everyone states a MA or MSC is the gateway to advancing my carear path. I have the work experience, now I need to play academic catch up.

What I am good at?

I am good at inter govermental liasons,
speach writing,
composing briefing notes on multitude of topics,
light research,
and inter 'racial' communications.

I routinely do negotiations,
facilitate meetings,
and provide administrative functions like hiring, interviewing, expense claims, and coordinate legal and administrative, and supervise job sites, legal and engineering firms.

I also have a wicked Ippon Seonagi to Tai Otoshi combo.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 06:37 PM
Find a job with a different NGO. You can still do things For Great Justice and finally get what you deserve.

This job is a once in a life time, and has provided opportunities far beyond the scope of most other ones. The learning curve was steep, and it is continuing do to many massive changes.

bob
18th February 10, 06:37 PM
and inter 'racial' communications.



Banging your Spanish wife doesn't count.

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 06:42 PM
Are all of these unavailable to you, or only some?
......
But if you can never make more money, beyond a cost-of-living increase... yeah, get out of there.

Compensation - now that is a whole other kettle of fish. What I was intending with this thread to see how others have coped.

It is liberating to vent on a website like this, and has been quite cathartic. I just was curious as to what others had done in this or similar situation and how your decisions worked out.

2nd career type stuff, having an exit stratigy.

Cullion
18th February 10, 06:44 PM
Have you considered journalism ?

KO'd N DOA
18th February 10, 06:56 PM
Have you considered journalism ?

Not since my High School newspaper days.
I have always been more of a wing man, advisor, support, then the brash journalist type.
My brother in law was on the radio for a couple of years, had me on a few shows. Was fun, but not really my thing.

Cullion
18th February 10, 07:06 PM
I'm not talking about 'presentational' journalism so much, I'm more talking about investigative journalism. The legwork. You've got opinions, interest in social issues, govt contacts, an ability to write and an ability to master a narrative quickly, and an ability to speak in public. And due to your MA experiences, you probably aren't scared of going to the rough and tumble parts of town.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking 'local paper crime reporter' rather than 'newsreader'. Am I making sense ?

Zendetta
18th February 10, 07:23 PM
When you chose to work for an NGO, or to chose a carear path that leads either to an NGO or government service, the goal ostensibly is to do your part to contribute to society and make the world a better place.

Obviously, you could make it as a comedian.

Wounded Ronin
18th February 10, 08:21 PM
When you chose to work for an NGO, or to chose a carear path that leads either to an NGO or government service, the goal ostensibly is to do your part to contribute to society and make the world a better place.

Maybe its sociocide's divergent views on every issue that I have been exposed to, perhaps the fact that now married I have to chose between what is in the best interest of my own whims and mysteries, and what will best provide for the family unit, house, and eventually retirement.

In either case, I am left after this pass over with thinking how many of these can I stomach and still wish to work here, and how many I can afford.

I work for an ethnically based NGO, so being the White Man (one of many including lawyers accountants, engineers, lobbyists ect.) with a skill set that is absent in the NGO ethnic base is why I am there in the first place.

12+ years into this path, however, the 'noble' idea of lending my remaining lifes energies to aiding 'the oppressed', is starting to lose its pius santimonious nature and what drove me before - the nice butterflies and rose coloured glasses - are not as satisfying anymore.

Hmm, you could always make up for lost time by writing a book like Dinesh Disouza and going on talk shows about anti-white discrimination and the logical fallacies inherent in left-wing ideology.

Phrost
18th February 10, 09:51 PM
You're fucked dude. Join the military and reboot your career.

Commodore Pipes
18th February 10, 10:44 PM
Compensation - now that is a whole other kettle of fish. What I was intending with this thread to see how others have coped.

It is liberating to vent on a website like this, and has been quite cathartic. I just was curious as to what others had done in this or similar situation and how your decisions worked out.

2nd career type stuff, having an exit stratigy.

I don't know how government grants work in Canada, but I know someone here in Milwaukee who works as freelance grant writer. She takes the info the organization seeking the grant sends her, does some research and writes the grant application in exchange for a percentage, I think something like 10% - so a $10,000 grant might take her a 5 or 6 days (at MOST) and she collects $1,000. We are awash with government spending on all levels here, so she also can repurpose the same grant application for city, state, and federal programs with minor tweaking. If the application if accepted for another program, that five or six days' work suddenly nets her another $100 or $500, depending on the grant. And sometimes the grants she deals with get up to $70k. Might be worth investigating with your skill set; at least it could supplement a consulting job.

Ajamil
19th February 10, 01:05 AM
Which branch of the military would take you at 37?

And also, speaking of venting about jobs on the very public and accessible internet - careful of your words or move over to PAC, KOA (sorry non-supporting members, but you should have tried harder).

Cullion
19th February 10, 04:50 AM
Which branch of the military would take you at 37?

The reserves would take you in the UK, except commando and special forces units which won't take anybody over the age of 32 unless they have prior military experience. Medical doctors can join at any age they want. I'd guess Canadian forces probably have similar age limits. The US army takes people up to the age of 40 IIRC.

The french foreign legion takes people up to the age of 40 as long as they can pass the same fitness tests as the 20 year olds.

Ajamil
19th February 10, 08:36 AM
Good to know.

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 11:16 AM
I'm not talking about 'presentational' journalism so much, I'm more talking about investigative journalism. The legwork. You've got opinions, interest in social issues, govt contacts, an ability to write and an ability to master a narrative quickly, and an ability to speak in public. And due to your MA experiences, you probably aren't scared of going to the rough and tumble parts of town.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking 'local paper crime reporter' rather than 'newsreader'. Am I making sense ?

Yes. You are making sense. That thrill of the investigations on Bullshido is what got me going...and from there...over to here....so that is interesting.

EvilSteve
19th February 10, 11:26 AM
Start your own company providing consulting services to multiple NGOs. Be your own boss, get paid more and still do what you enjoy doing.

^ This. Also, would your experience working for this NGO at all put you in a position to work as a lobbyist? You spent the last 12 years helping the little guy, why not spend the next 12 fucking the little guy and helping yourself?

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 11:38 AM
Hmm, you could always make up for lost time by writing a book like Dinesh Disouza and going on talk shows about anti-white discrimination and the logical fallacies inherent in left-wing ideology.

I'd make a lousy activist. In order to be engaged in my work, whether it be farming, teaching, administrating, I have to have passion for it, and then it no longer feels like work.

My current job is passing into that - jumping the shark stage - where the long term reality is being forced into my view of what exactly I am accomplishing there.

Could be begining of and existential midlife crises. I am not quiting, or doing anything to get fired, just trying to plot a life path that leaves me passionate about my work.

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 11:48 AM
You're fucked dude. Join the military and reboot your career.


I would consider that, but I would have to move. I've had enough professional involvement with military issues (environmentally) that I am not sure that is where I want to go. I just looked at pay scale, and it would be hard to justify the switch.

Also my wife has a standing veto on Military or MMA fighter, so those paths look closed. Age is starting to be a factor.

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 11:52 AM
I don't know how government grants work in Canada, but I know someone here in Milwaukee who works as freelance grant writer. She takes the info the organization seeking the grant sends her, does some research and writes the grant application in exchange for a percentage, I think something like 10% - so a $10,000 grant might take her a 5 or 6 days (at MOST) and she collects $1,000. We are awash with government spending on all levels here, so she also can repurpose the same grant application for city, state, and federal programs with minor tweaking. If the application if accepted for another program, that five or six days' work suddenly nets her another $100 or $500, depending on the grant. And sometimes the grants she deals with get up to $70k. Might be worth investigating with your skill set; at least it could supplement a consulting job.

Working the grant and proposal writing angle is very interesting, considering I am doing that already on salary. Not sure if it could be full time, but as Canada is not a overly lucrative market, and the competition is great thats why so many fly south.

Great tip for future planning...hadn't considered that.

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 11:59 AM
And also, speaking of venting about jobs on the very public and accessible internet - careful of your words or move over to PAC, KOA (sorry non-supporting members, but you should have tried harder).


Thanks for your concern.

I want to know how others have delt with career direction, especially when you are confronted with internal policies that are slanted against you.

I am thinking of a Masters degree, in order that the Payscale is not slanted, and neither is the promotional trail in future companies. Minimum application for the Federal Government is Masters, as in posting internationally with the UN, WFB, and most aid agencies. I new that in Uni, I just couldn't afford it then, I don't thing I can afford not to now.

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 12:03 PM
^ This. Also, would your experience working for this NGO at all put you in a position to work as a lobbyist? You spent the last 12 years helping the little guy, why not spend the next 12 fucking the little guy and helping yourself?

Lobbying is a complicated game. The lobbyist I have communications with are the very people I do not want to be one of when in my 50s - 60s. I still have ideological holdouts that would prevent me.

Plus I suck at golf.

HappyOldGuy
19th February 10, 12:53 PM
Thanks for your concern.

I want to know how others have delt with career direction, especially when you are confronted with internal policies that are slanted against you.

I am thinking of a Masters degree, in order that the Payscale is not slanted, and neither is the promotional trail in future companies. Minimum application for the Federal Government is Masters, as in posting internationally with the UN, WFB, and most aid agencies. I new that in Uni, I just couldn't afford it then, I don't thing I can afford not to now.

It's the obvious answer.

How hard would it be for you to get the masters degree while keeping your job? I know in IT it's become trivially easy to get a masters with night school+online. But obviously different fields and colleges approach things differently.

EvilSteve
19th February 10, 01:00 PM
Lobbying is a complicated game. The lobbyist I have communications with are the very people I do not want to be one of when in my 50s - 60s. I still have ideological holdouts that would prevent me.

Plus I suck at golf.

Then I would go the consulting route. There's no reason to give up 12 years of industry experience when you can leverage that into a better paycheck. If they're not going to promote you then you should operate outside of the power structure- as a consultant. Plus, if you get a good accountant being paid corp-to-corp is a substantial pay raise in itself.

elipson
19th February 10, 01:09 PM
I'm skipping a few pages here becuase I'm impatient.

KOA you sound like a possible future version of me, which is not what I want.

With so much experience with NGO's, have you thought of applying with Foreign Affairs Canada or with CEDA directly? I would also repeat some earlier advice and try and get into another NGO. With your experience you would be very valuable to a lot of them.

The affirmative action shit is present all over Canada, for all government jobs. Government forest fire fighters even have Native teams that aboriginals can apply to specifically. When I applied for a slew of public service jobs these past few months, they always include questions about your ethnicity, but they also give you the option to abstain from that question so that it isn't known at the time of application. Naturally I chose not to mention im entirely the grandson of White European immigrants.

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 01:14 PM
It's the obvious answer.

How hard would it be for you to get the masters degree while keeping your job? I know in IT it's become trivially easy to get a masters with night school+online. But obviously different fields and colleges approach things differently.

HOG, Thats what I applied for, a combo degree of online and class. A professor friend said combos are not a bad thing, as long as I do not try to eventually do a Phd and become a tenured Proff because the old boys did it the old way, and change is slow.

I respected his honesty, but Proff at anything higher than college level is not something I am interested in, nor would I be particularily suited for.

I can do both at the same time.

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 01:29 PM
Then I would go the consulting route. There's no reason to give up 12 years of industry experience when you can leverage that into a better paycheck. If they're not going to promote you then you should operate outside of the power structure- as a consultant. Plus, if you get a good accountant being paid corp-to-corp is a substantial pay raise in itself.

A company car, and home office does sound interesting, especially tax wise, this will probably be the route I take after the advanced degree. People seem to like letters after names.

Besides an accountant, a good liability lawyer might be important to make sure I have the right insurance coverage.

EvilSteve
19th February 10, 01:34 PM
If you can work it, you will be much happier as a private consultant (i.e. running your own company) rather than working for a large consulting firm. You can set your own hours and rate, but you're also responsible for finding your own jobs. That last one can be a bitch in tough economic times, as I can personally attest to, so make sure you always have some financial cushioning.

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 01:57 PM
I'm skipping a few pages here becuase I'm impatient.

KOA you sound like a possible future version of me, which is not what I want.

With so much experience with NGO's, have you thought of applying with Foreign Affairs Canada or with CEDA directly? I would also repeat some earlier advice and try and get into another NGO. With your experience you would be very valuable to a lot of them.

.

The Buzz words in many of the international NGO's, Development partners and even in Church Missions is in nationalization. You hear it strongly in regards to Haiti in the call for money. Having a self sufficient nationalzed wing of an international NGO is good for PR. It is an increasingly tough nut to crack.

After UNI I tried to work for CIDA and others International NGO, but MA and MSC and 10 years is the min. Unless you want to volunteer, which I have also done, but does not pay the mortgage or cars, and wouldn't have paid off the 50K student loan.

I now have the 10 years, I need those letter thingies.



The affirmative action shit is present all over Canada, for all government jobs. Government forest fire fighters even have Native teams that aboriginals can apply to specifically. When I applied for a slew of public service jobs these past few months, they always include questions about your ethnicity, but they also give you the option to abstain from that question so that it isn't known at the time of application. Naturally I chose not to mention im entirely the grandson of White European immigrants


The interesting side note in the global development field is that as Canada gets more ethincally diversified, the visible minority point becomes moot. Whatever country you want to deal with, you would be wise to draw from the immigrant population from and familiar to that area to service that. That means Spanish and Chinese, Arabic speaking people are huge in demand.

The stinging reality in Quebec is that being uniligual francophone limits your choices and keeps many within provincial boundaries - which is what the gov want.

Many immigrants speak both official languages, and some of the more in demand international ones. Much more idealy suited to serve Canada than being an anglophone alone is. Look at our last 2 Gov Generals.

For Vancouver.


In the City of Vancouver, 47.1%; are members of visible minority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_minority) groups. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver

Lights Out
19th February 10, 02:03 PM
That means Spanish and Chinese, Arabic speaking people are huge in demand.

Interesting...

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 02:26 PM
Interesting...

Of course Lights Out, you do realize that this is mostly for NAFTA related programs, and other Former Colonies who will pick up on your 'z' and 'll's.

The Spanish composition of Canada is increasing, and in Quebec so much so that it is begining to threaten English as second language status after French?

Ajamil
19th February 10, 02:46 PM
The Buzz words in many of the international NGO's, Development partners and even in Church Missions is in nationalization. You hear it strongly in regards to Haiti in the call for money. Having a self sufficient nationalzed wing of an international NGO is good for PR. It is an increasingly tough nut to crack.
This made me double read. You're talking about nationalizing as in American Red Cross, Canadian Red Cross, Haitian Red Cross as opposed to nationalize = government runs and pays for it - right?

KO'd N DOA
19th February 10, 03:03 PM
Yes.

The context of nationalization of relief aid being a selling point of aid to Haiti, is that the distribution corridor, including most of the NGO in country would be Haitians. The Haitian Red Cross being the field agents and port of entry for relief instead of internation Red Cross and Cresent setting up independently.

It makes sense - as long as capacity is not the issue.

Lights Out
19th February 10, 05:34 PM
Of course Lights Out, you do realize that this is mostly for NAFTA related programs, and other Former Colonies who will pick up on your 'z' and 'll's.

Meh, we're filled with our ex-colonies folks here, anyway. I'd be picked on on any other country, the USa wouldn't be different, or even worse, and I'm seriously considering going there.


The Spanish composition of Canada is increasing, and in Quebec so much so that it is begining to threaten English as second language status after French?

For a guy who married a spanish, you seem to despise them a bit... wait, maybe that's why you despise them/us.

Artful Dentures
19th February 10, 08:46 PM
Become Governor General

That's my 2 cents

KO'd N DOA
20th February 10, 03:58 PM
Meh, we're filled with our ex-colonies folks here, anyway. I'd be picked on on any other country, the USa wouldn't be different, or even worse, and I'm seriously considering going there.

For a guy who married a spanish, you seem to despise them a bit... wait, maybe that's why you despise them/us.

Occational tiffs aside...I don't have hatred.

I live in a French Province in Canada, which takes seperation and their language very seriously. Since Quebec surrendered to the British (or were abandoned by France -take your pick) anything that threatens their culture is the evil villan, and for ever it has been the Anglos. They even have language cops whose job is to see where their lanuage is under attack, on the internet, on signs, on commercials, street signs...ect.

Now that other groups are growing so fast, and the Anglos are leaving, the next group to be the bad guy is the Spanish Speaking population, mostly not from Spain.

During the last vote for seperation, the Allophones (non-anglos non-francophone) voted against seperation, and are viewed at having killed the dream for the time being.

I personally love the allophones, but some sadly have drunk from the Kool-aid of seperation.

KO'd N DOA
20th February 10, 04:11 PM
Having taking a psudo survey, many in the office are also expressing concern at how these type of appointments are done.

People with many more years experience, and higher academics credentials, were also passed over. The issue seems to be one of, if there was competition for the Job it would be hard for the appointed one to get there. The only way around the competion and posting was by appointing.

Therefore most of the non-ethnic employes are looking at plans B, C and even D. This would be similar to anyone whose home grown company was purchased or taken over by a multinational corp for pillaging. You know the end will come, and sometimes the uncertainty is worse than actually knowing.

Most are considering consulting, or government, or hanging for a few more years till the pension kicks in...I am too far from that.

Therefore for now, I will bide my time, take no hasty action, but put in place strategies to ensure that I come out in a better position. Take back the control.

Thank you all for your advice.

I remain,

KO'd

DAYoung
20th February 10, 05:03 PM
This thread is Sociocide at its best: mature, helpful, ambitious. Good luck KO'd N DOA.

Commodore Pipes
20th February 10, 05:29 PM
Having taking a psudo survey, many in the office are also expressing concern at how these type of appointments are done.

People with many more years experience, and higher academics credentials, were also passed over. The issue seems to be one of, if there was competition for the Job it would be hard for the appointed one to get there. The only way around the competion and posting was by appointing.

Therefore most of the non-ethnic employes are looking at plans B, C and even D. This would be similar to anyone whose home grown company was purchased or taken over by a multinational corp for pillaging. You know the end will come, and sometimes the uncertainty is worse than actually knowing.

Most are considering consulting, or government, or hanging for a few more years till the pension kicks in...I am too far from that.

Therefore for now, I will bide my time, take no hasty action, but put in place strategies to ensure that I come out in a better position. Take back the control.

Thank you all for your advice.

I remain,

KO'd

Good luck, man. It might be dangerous to ask, but it sounds like there are enough concerned staff there for all of you to start a consulting firm...

Wounded Ronin
20th February 10, 06:40 PM
Having taking a psudo survey, many in the office are also expressing concern at how these type of appointments are done.

People with many more years experience, and higher academics credentials, were also passed over. The issue seems to be one of, if there was competition for the Job it would be hard for the appointed one to get there. The only way around the competion and posting was by appointing.

Therefore most of the non-ethnic employes are looking at plans B, C and even D. This would be similar to anyone whose home grown company was purchased or taken over by a multinational corp for pillaging. You know the end will come, and sometimes the uncertainty is worse than actually knowing.

Most are considering consulting, or government, or hanging for a few more years till the pension kicks in...I am too far from that.

Therefore for now, I will bide my time, take no hasty action, but put in place strategies to ensure that I come out in a better position. Take back the control.

Thank you all for your advice.

I remain,

KO'd

From the way you described it this organization has become a parody of what it was supposed to be. All the white people are highly qualified and extremely self-sacrificing and all the minorities are incompetent and have to be appointed. It's probably exactly how lots of racist people might see society as a whole. This organization has created exactly what creates push back and hampers their goals.

EvilSteve
22nd February 10, 08:57 AM
Occational tiffs aside...I don't have hatred.

I live in a French Province in Canada, which takes seperation and their language very seriously. Since Quebec surrendered to the British (or were abandoned by France -take your pick) anything that threatens their culture is the evil villan, and for ever it has been the Anglos. They even have language cops whose job is to see where their lanuage is under attack, on the internet, on signs, on commercials, street signs...ect.

Now that other groups are growing so fast, and the Anglos are leaving, the next group to be the bad guy is the Spanish Speaking population, mostly not from Spain.

During the last vote for seperation, the Allophones (non-anglos non-francophone) voted against seperation, and are viewed at having killed the dream for the time being.

I personally love the allophones, but some sadly have drunk from the Kool-aid of seperation.

A French Canadian friend of mine told me that secession was largely just a sabre that the Quebecois rattle to get concessions from the government, and that it's never going to happen because Quebec seceding from Canada would literally divide the country into two non-contiguous pieces. Is that a fair assessment in your mind KOA?

Feryk
22nd February 10, 05:16 PM
A French Canadian friend of mine told me that secession was largely just a sabre that the Quebecois rattle to get concessions from the government, and that it's never going to happen because Quebec seceding from Canada would literally divide the country into two non-contiguous pieces. Is that a fair assessment in your mind KOA?

What Quebecer's are really afraid of is to extend the referendum to ALL Canadians. They would find out how quickly that the rest of us WANT them to leave.

Quebec IS a distinct society. It has a unique culture and a unique viewpoint on world issues that differs from the rest of Canada. Unfortunately for them, they are also completely financially unviable as a Nation. They continually suck off the Federal teat more than almost any other Province (and that includes Atlantic Canada). People in urban Ontario (Mainly Ottawa and Toronto) get their panties in a bunch whenever separation is mentioned and cry 'Unity!'. They are willing to mortgage the rest of the country to pay for Quebec's excess and buy off their demands for a distinct society.

Let them leave. Let them thrive or die on their own. If they want to return to Canada, fine, we can vote about it. We can renegotiate the deal we have with them, so it suits both their cultural needs, and the needs of the rest of Canada financially. Granted, it means Canada would suck at the Olympics, but other than that...no big loss.

Feryk
22nd February 10, 05:18 PM
Having taking a psudo survey, many in the office are also expressing concern at how these type of appointments are done.

People with many more years experience, and higher academics credentials, were also passed over. The issue seems to be one of, if there was competition for the Job it would be hard for the appointed one to get there. The only way around the competion and posting was by appointing.

Therefore most of the non-ethnic employes are looking at plans B, C and even D. This would be similar to anyone whose home grown company was purchased or taken over by a multinational corp for pillaging. You know the end will come, and sometimes the uncertainty is worse than actually knowing.

Most are considering consulting, or government, or hanging for a few more years till the pension kicks in...I am too far from that.

Therefore for now, I will bide my time, take no hasty action, but put in place strategies to ensure that I come out in a better position. Take back the control.

Thank you all for your advice.

I remain,

KO'd

It seems clear that this organization no longer will support you in your family goals, regardless of the reason. I hope you are able to engineer an exit that works for you. Good luck.

Phrost
22nd February 10, 05:34 PM
Why don't you organize the rest of those people into a collective business entity and then sell your services back to the original company once it goes to shit?

EvilSteve
22nd February 10, 06:29 PM
Yes, why be a lone consultant when you can start a consulting firm?

Cullion
22nd February 10, 07:15 PM
Yeah, because when your bosses tell you that you aren't getting promoted, offering to charge more for the same thing that they already said they weren't willing to pay more for is always a good option, especially when they've got an ethnic grudge against you.

Sorry, I forgot 'consulting' is like a white/asian middle class version of 'abracadabra', it always works, even with proven losing propositions.

Well, it sorta worked in Fight Club, right ? right ?

Or you could, like, try something else..

My 2 cents would say not to keep trying the same mistake until you're 67, but what would a guy like me know ?

Commodore Pipes
22nd February 10, 11:12 PM
Yeah, because when your bosses tell you that you aren't getting promoted, offering to charge more for the same thing that they already said they weren't willing to pay more for is always a good option, especially when they've got an ethnic grudge against you.

Sorry, I forgot 'consulting' is like a white/asian middle class version of 'abracadabra', it always works, even with proven losing propositions.

Well, it sorta worked in Fight Club, right ? right ?

Or you could, like, try something else..

My 2 cents would say not to keep trying the same mistake until you're 67, but what would a guy like me know ?

Well, I'm not sure how the tax burden is shared in Canada, but in the US you generally can get away with that, because healthcare costs are usually assumed to be the responsibility of the employer. Plus you don't pay your taxes on your income until the end of the year (or the quarter, depending on how much you make) so you have immediate access to the full value of your work. I used to never save specifically for taxes; I would usually take the proceeds from a single job and use those to pay for all my taxes for the year. Of course, I wasn't making that much, I was young and I didn't need to.

With Canada's health care administered by the government, I confess I don't immediately see the benefit to his current employer, but of course his pool of potential clients could e quite large. He's the only one who can know, but I don't think it's out of line to suggest that he consider these options of forming a firm or becoming an independent consultant. Or even a lobbyist for causes he espouses. KO'd N DOA will tell us when we're being unrealistic.

Artful Dentures
22nd February 10, 11:52 PM
Yeah, because when your bosses tell you that you aren't getting promoted, offering to charge more for the same thing that they already said they weren't willing to pay more for is always a good option, especially when they've got an ethnic grudge against you.

Sorry, I forgot 'consulting' is like a white/asian middle class version of 'abracadabra', it always works, even with proven losing propositions.

Well, it sorta worked in Fight Club, right ? right ?

Or you could, like, try something else..

My 2 cents would say not to keep trying the same mistake until you're 67, but what would a guy like me know ?

Unfortunately you have no idea how silly the Canadian government is Phrost's plan could easily work.

Cullion
23rd February 10, 08:06 AM
Unfortunately you have no idea how silly the Canadian government is Phrost's plan could easily work.

He doesn't work for the government, he works for an NGO run by an ethnic minority that don't want honkeys getting above themselves.

Feryk
23rd February 10, 02:45 PM
He doesn't work for the government, he works for an NGO run by an ethnic minority that don't want honkeys getting above themselves.

Which makes the consulting gig perfect, actually. The NGO's here are mostly funded by the government, so they can lobby the government for whatever their cause is. I know that NOW (National Organization for Women) receives MILLIONS for this kind of thing each year, and they bitch if they don't get the increases they are lobbying for. Stupid and incestuous but there you are.

By being a consultant, KOA could charge out what he thinks they can afford. They get him off the books as an employee and can continue their proud history of employing and promoting minorities. He doesn't get promoted, but they can keep him providing an essential service - that can be shitcanned each time the contract is up for renewal. The higher price gets passed on to the Government.

And yes, it is just that insane.

bob
23rd February 10, 05:03 PM
My original suggestion several days ago was to start a company providing consulting services to multiple NGOs, not just the one he's currently working for. It sounds like the fundamental problem is the same - they don't have the skills but they don't want people within the company usurping their hierarchy. Consulting sounds like the perfect solution.

Cullion
23rd February 10, 05:52 PM
Which makes the consulting gig perfect, actually. The NGO's here are mostly funded by the government, so they can lobby the government for whatever their cause is. I know that NOW (National Organization for Women) receives MILLIONS for this kind of thing each year, and they bitch if they don't get the increases they are lobbying for. Stupid and incestuous but there you are.

By being a consultant, KOA could charge out what he thinks they can afford. They get him off the books as an employee and can continue their proud history of employing and promoting minorities. He doesn't get promoted, but they can keep him providing an essential service - that can be shitcanned each time the contract is up for renewal. The higher price gets passed on to the Government.

And yes, it is just that insane.

Is this minority that's so obsessed with being of higher status than the cracker-man really too dumb to compare what they are allowed to pay themselves with what the white and asian consultants charge?

Actually, they probably are. Carry on. But realise that this is left-wing pseudo-capitalist parasitism in it's most venal form. If this is how middle-class liberals really think when it comes to their own income I'm not surprised so many of you think entrepeneurs and businessmen are inherently evil.

Take a look in the mirror. I'd be ashamed of myself if I made my living like this. It's bottom-feeding.

Feryk
23rd February 10, 05:59 PM
Is this minority that's so obsessed with being of higher status than the cracker-man really too dumb to compare what they are allowed to pay themselves with what the white and asian consultants charge?

Actually, they probably are. Carry on. But realise that this is left-wing pseudo-capitalist parasitism in it's most venal form. If this is how middle-class liberals really think when it comes to their own income I'm not surprised so many of you think entrepeneurs and businessmen are inherently evil.

Take a look in the mirror. I'd be ashamed of myself if I made my living like this. It's bottom-feeding.

You have ranted about your own country's classism, minority driven liberalism, etc. It's as bad here, but it takes a different form. All three (yes, three) of the opposition parties love to take potshots at entrepreneurs and business people as inherently evil. They do it because it plays to Johnny Lunchpail who is sure he's getting screwed by someone, and it keeps Johnny from focussing on THEM.

Cullion
23rd February 10, 06:04 PM
People should avoid doing things that they deep down know are wrong.

Lights Out
23rd February 10, 06:24 PM
But realise that this is left-wing pseudo-capitalist parasitism in it's most venal form.

Yes, it is, but that's how the system works. I'm beginning to beleive that Canada and spain have lots in common.


People should avoid doing things that they deep down know are wrong.

I woudln't consider it exactly wrong. Not unless we get more information about what are the specific actions KOA's NGO does to promote whatever they are promoting.

I beleive they have washed their business practices a little, but years ago studies showed that near 90% of and average NGO budget went down on maintaining said NGO's structure. I almost got a job in one of those once, as journalist, and they paid way more than any media.

Feryk
23rd February 10, 06:28 PM
Why the hell does a government pay people to lobby itself?

Cullion
23rd February 10, 06:32 PM
Yes, it is, but that's how the system works. I'm beginning to beleive that Canada and spain have lots in common.

Systems are built from the people that compose them. If people go along with things they know to be wrong because it's in their self-interest, then the system itself will be wrong. There is no social system independent of the character of the people that comprise it.




I woudln't consider it exactly wrong. Not unless we get more information about what are the specific actions KOA's NGO does to promote whatever they are promoting.

They're promoting a specific ethnic group which KOA isn't a member of and treating non-members of that group like second-class citizens.

Cullion
23rd February 10, 06:35 PM
Why the hell does a government pay people to lobby itself?

Easy. Because they want the view being expressed to become policy and they like the illusion of an independent third party to promote it.

This is why we have such a profusion of seemingly altruistic fake charities in many western countries these days. They're actually political propaganda fronts run by well-salaried people without the stones to engage in genuine competitive business or real acts of self-sacrificing charity.

Here's a site enumerating some of the ones operating in the UK

http://fakecharities.org/

Having come from an orphanage myself (mercifully rescued as a babe), I used to support charities for orphans like the NSPCC and Dr. Barnardos. Not any more.

Not since I found that most of their budget is spent sending salaried staff to dinner and conferences with politicians to lobby said politicians to spend tax money doing the things I thought I was supporting directly.

They're an excellent sinecure for lazy trustafarians who want to feel (and tell people) that they're 'making a difference' just before they enter mainstream party politics.

It's one of the tawdry and cheap ways in which political consent is manufactured in our sham democracies. Next time a politician appears on a current affairs show and 'experts' from 'think tanks' and 'charities' appear to support one side or the other, think about what that 'expert' is really doing there and who pays their wages these days.

Next time somebody comes on from a 'homelessness' or 'child' charity, you gotta ask yourself 'when was the last time you made a bowl of soup or got a troubled teenager to eat one of your own home-cooked meals?'

Feryk
23rd February 10, 06:44 PM
This is my favorite from your web link:

http://fakecharities.org/pages/posts/v112.php

V
Posted by user23 (user23) on Mar 03 2009
Charities >> Charities for charities


UK Charity Number: 1113255

Website: http://www.vinspired.com/v

Stated AimsV AIMS TO INSPIRE A NEW GENERATION OF 16 TO 25 YEAR OLDS TO GET INVOLVED IN VOLUNTEERING AND COMMUNITY ACTION.

ContextRegistered as the Russell Commission Implementation body, V was created in 2006 as a 'third sector' project to encourage young people to volunteer. In January 2009, the government announced it would be giving V a further 10.5 million.

SummaryAccording to its website:

v is an independent charity aiming to inspire a new generation of volunteers (aged 16-25) in England. We do this by funding voluntary organisations all over England to create inspiring, diverse opportunities and by helping to overcome barriers that stop people from taking action to improve lives, communities and the planet. Our aim is to create a culture where volunteering comes naturally – and where the benefits of volunteering are understood and celebrated.
It omits to mention that this "independent charity" is almost entirely funded by The Office of the Third Sector.

DetailsIts 2008 accounts show a total income of 48,470,994. Of which:



Strategic grants (Office of Third Sector): 2,050,000
Project grants (Office of Third Sector): 37,027,100
Matched funds (Office of Third Sector): 7,630,000
---
Total 46,711,575 (96.3% of all income)
The Chief Executive is paid more than 120,000 a year.

Damn, you guys are spending $100 Million USD/YEAR to get volunteers out...what if you paid them?

Cullion
23rd February 10, 06:54 PM
Volunteers for what though ?

It does however receive 96.3% of it's income from the taxpayer. I bet the senior administrators receive excellent salaries and aren't bound by those annoying civil service rules about political impartiality either.

Here's a couple of examples of their poor, gullible 'volunteers' projects:-

"Conduct a light audit of Lambeth council buildings and find out how much carbon can be saved."

"Digital marketing
From the comfort of your own home

Spread the word and some festive cheer by forwarding the ‘gift of time’ app to your friends."

Click around on some more of this bullshit yourself.

It's like an idiotic and super-expensive form of left-wing multilevel marketing using gullible youths, funded by the taxpayer.

Feryk
23rd February 10, 07:24 PM
I'll look into it later. AFK till tomorrow.

Zendetta
23rd February 10, 08:23 PM
Carry on. But realise that this is left-wing pseudo-capitalist parasitism in it's most venal form.

*buys Cullion a Virtual Beer*

Feryk
24th February 10, 12:13 PM
*buys Cullion a Virtual Beer*

Careful. Cullion is watching his Virtual Waistline. :lovey:

Lights Out
24th February 10, 01:15 PM
Systems are built from the people that compose them. If people go along with things they know to be wrong because it's in their self-interest, then the system itself will be wrong. There is no social system independent of the character of the people that comprise it.

The thing is, you cannot make any sort of system without a lot of loopholes crafty people can take advantage of. I won't argue that "if I don't take advantage of this, someone else will, so it's OK" because I never liked that argument.

However, I don't see any problem in gettin paid high salaries for doing a job with no tangible and accurately measurable outcomes if someone is willing to pay me so. And it may seem the case for KOA. He could make a consulting firm and offer his services, if people are willing to pay for that, it's OK. I don't see why he should bother much where the money comes from.


They're promoting a specific ethnic group which KOA isn't a member of and treating non-members of that group like second-class citizens.

I wasn't asking about their ideary, but their specific actions. It seems that KOA's NGO does... talk, and not much more. The NGO I almost got the position at, while still dping a lot of talking, could say something like "we distributred X ammount of medicins in this third world country, we build X schools on X countries, helped build basic infraestructures in X countries, etc." Tangible outcomes of their actions. It doesn't seem the case for KOA's NGO and many other who "promote policies", "raise awareness" and the like.

Cullion
24th February 10, 01:22 PM
You need a harsh dose of protestant work ethic, that's what.

Lights Out
24th February 10, 01:58 PM
You need a harsh dose of protestant work ethic, that's what.

Maybe, but then again, it's not like that isn't happening in protestant countries... such as yours (see your own post above).

Also, KOA has said that he has found his work rewarding. So he beleives he finds it useful, from a social standpoint. I don't see why he shouldn't keep doing what he does but being paid more and being his own boss.

Cullion
24th February 10, 05:14 PM
Maybe, but then again, it's not like that isn't happening in protestant countries... such as yours (see your own post above).

Also, KOA has said that he has found his work rewarding. So he beleives he finds it useful, from a social standpoint. I don't see why he shouldn't keep doing what he does but being paid more and being his own boss.

Because he now knows it's a sham but deep down is worried about short term money concerns and the whole upheaval of change.

His woman knows the score too, by the sound of it.

Lights Out
24th February 10, 06:38 PM
Because he now knows it's a sham but deep down is worried about short term money concerns and the whole upheaval of change.

That's something KOA's will have to adress, we don't know his exact feelings on the subject.

Besides, is this discussion about KOA anymore?

Vieux Normand
24th February 10, 06:44 PM
Because he now knows it's a sham but deep down is worried about short term money concerns and the whole upheaval of change.

What?

Nobody would ever hang on to a job in such circumstances.

In this perfect world, everyone's avocation is the same as their vocation. Why else would so many people have such cheerful and merry facial expressions on their way to work?