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resolve
10th February 10, 11:58 PM
nDMeDmV0ufU

Now I don't even own a firearm myself but I believe in the 2nd ammendment of the constitution as being a good thing and the people's right to possess firearms. That's my take on it.

However, I don't understand why this is such a big deal. Does the UN and these big NGO's really have the power to scuttle this kind of legislation through Washington? It seems like the nations where the UN has been able to use it's iANSA NGO front to pass legislation already wanted the gun laws cuz socialist/liberal societies (moreso than the US). Do you think a host of ad campaigns and lobbyists packing millions of other-government money could get stricter gun legislation passed in the US?

Also, lulz at one of the ex-Amnesty International heads being a member of the NRA and the British heads of the same organization being all fussydrama'ed about it.

Yiktin Voxbane
11th February 10, 12:19 AM
How old is that ... one speaker proclaimed "Don't wait till 2006" ....

Also LOL @ NRA being concerned about being outspent on Propoganda .

resolve
11th February 10, 12:23 AM
Video was posted November 15, 2009 on their YouTub channel.

SFGOON
11th February 10, 12:38 AM
Would you give to a monkey a gun?

Does man not come from monkeys?

Do you see where I go with this?

socratic
12th February 10, 03:00 AM
Would you give to a monkey a gun?

Does man not come from monkeys?

Do you see where I go with this?
I DID give monkeys guns. We're taking back the Congo, motherfucker.

Robot Jesus
12th February 10, 12:43 PM
I DID give monkeys guns. We're taking back the Congo, motherfucker.
I was going to make a racist joke, but then I googled "African gun" and got this image.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1WaO1OGuwzI/SJ6E5WbtEgI/AAAAAAAADbQ/04W6q2CzCuA/s400/pics_big-breasted-gun-holder.jpg

as you were.

Zendetta
12th February 10, 12:50 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1WaO1OGuwzI/SJ6E5WbtEgI/AAAAAAAADbQ/04W6q2CzCuA/s400/pics_big-breasted-gun-holder.jpg

as you were.

Sorry, Sir, but I am staying At Attention!

Wounded Ronin
13th February 10, 06:30 PM
For some reason the NRA has a real mad-on for the UN. I've said it before and I've said it again. The UN is not looking to regulate private firearms ownership in the US. My dad worked for the UN his whole adult life, I've spent a lot of time hanging out with actual UN personnel, and I've done lots of research and writing for school and other activities about the UN.

Now, I'm not saying that if you look hard enough you won't find one or two folks in the UN who seem to have a mad-on for handguns. But what I am saying is that privately owned handguns in the US are absolutely not in any real way a priority or concern for the UN. The UN tends to be more worried about things like landmines, micronutrient deficiency, TB and HIV co-infection, genocide, etc.

I'm a NRA member, I support the NRA, but unfortunately the NRA is sometimes just a two-bit mouthpiece for the Republican party and all this anti UN stuff is just fear mongering to the base.

resolve
13th February 10, 06:40 PM
I'd actually like to hear more about your personal experiences with the UN, WR.

Wounded Ronin
13th February 10, 07:25 PM
Oh, sure. What exactly would you like to know? I'm not really sure what you have in mind because in my experience the UN is pretty mundane in a lot of ways, wheras in general in the US when I hear people talk about the UN it's like some menacing conspiracy theory. Not saying you're a conspiracy theorist, but just that when it comes to the UN I never know what to expect in terms of what someone might ask.

resolve
13th February 10, 10:03 PM
Like who did you rub shoulders with, what was their position in the UN, et cetera? What kind of "inner perspective" do you feel that others don't by being so involved in it (Dad working there, hanging out with the peeps, doing research projects on them, etc)???

Wounded Ronin
14th February 10, 01:20 AM
Like who did you rub shoulders with, what was their position in the UN, et cetera? What kind of "inner perspective" do you feel that others don't by being so involved in it (Dad working there, hanging out with the peeps, doing research projects on them, etc)???

Re-reading what I wrote below it sounds a bit extreme, but it's true to my personal experience. So, I'm going to make the disclaimer that all the stuff below applies to my experiences around the UN headquarters in NYC, so that it may well represent one extreme of that organization.

The people I literally rubbed shoulders with would actually be people working in the human resources department of one of the UN agencies, since that's where my dad works. Besides for human resources stuff they spent a huge amount of time articulating and re-articulating various UN positions on issues for the purpose of making tremendously long, wordy, and dense job descriptions for the cornucopia of posts and positions that make up a UN office. I actually helped out with writing some of them; I consider myself a good writer with a high level of skill in academic writing, but those job descriptions were so extreme that the process of writing them felt like pulling teeth and I wanted to bash my forehead into a computer monitor. The sentences became so long, and the extensive nuanced articulation so tiresome, that I wanted to scream while I was writing them.

Nobody I knew is anyone famous anyone would know, but IMO pretty typical UN staff. In general they were all mind and no body, in that they tended to work very long hours, neglect their health, and be very abstract in their thinking and/or very political. It is unfortunate that a lot of them tended to either be intellectual Europeans, or political and backstabbing people from developing countries who behaved worse in those regards than anyone else I ever met in a developing country outside of the context of the UN. Definitely, though, everyone was very intelligent and articulate.

Culturally, I'd say that the UN is very European. It tries to apply extremely abstract and intellectual ideas to ongoing problems around the world. From my perspective as an American I'd say that the UN tends towards a European-style leftist cultural and intellectual orthodoxy. In the UN, everything needs some kind of intellectual term to describe it. For example, it should be pretty obvious to everyone that there are lots of very serious public health problems around the world that don't get a lot of press. In the UN, they came up with a term for this, "silent emergency", and they like to throw terms like that around a lot ostensibly to cultivate support among intellectual elites in wealthy countries.

Let me link to you to a sample UN document. This one is about the "girl-child". It's a pretty typical UN document with an example of the sort of language and phrases used: http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/beijing/platform/girl.htm



8.The International Conference on Population and Development recognized, in paragraph 7.3 of the Programme of Action, [14] that "full attention should be given to the promotion of mutually respectful and equitable gender relations and particularly to meeting the educational and service needs of adolescents to enable them to deal in a positive and responsible way with their sexuality", taking into account the rights of the child to access to information, privacy, confidentiality, respect and informed consent, as well as the responsibilities, rights and duties of parents and legal guardians to provide, in a manner consistent with the evolving capacities of the child, appropriate direction and guidance in the exercise by the child of the rights recognized in the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and in conformity with the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. In all actions concerning children, the best interests of the child shall be a primary consideration. Support should be given to integral sexual education for young people with parental support and guidance that stresses the responsibility of males for their own sexuality and fertility and that help them exercise their responsibilities.


Well, this is getting kind of long, and I have lots I could say, since my dad worked at the UN for pretty much my entire childhood. So, I'll wrap it up with just a few main points, since you asked if there's anything I know about it that maybe others don't.

Things I believe about the UN that most Americans probably don't know:

1.) Even though the UN is perhaps overly political and abstract, it's still an effective organization in the sense that it succeeds in accomplishing difficult public health goals that make a difference in a lot of peoples' lives. For example, UNICEF's oral rehydration program is famous for having saved the lives of many infants all over the world.

2.) Could the UN hypothetically be more effective if it had different attributes? Maybe. Today there a lot of NGOs that are doing humanitarian things which used to be the sole provence of the UN and they do a good job. The UN isn't perfect, but it's far from completely ineffective.

3.) As far as accomplishing its humanitarian and public health goals, the UN is much more concerned about the US as a source of funding, and really doesn't care in any meaningful way about private handgun ownership in the US. It is honestly depressing and ridiculous that the NRA keeps bringing this up.

4.) The UN doesn't have very much power! A lot of times in the US I hear people going on about the New World Order and how the UN is going to do this and that and before you know it the USA will somehow be enslaved to the European Union and all the guns will evaporate. But the fact of the matter is that the UN has little or no political power. The only power it has is what the member states choose to give it. Even for funding the UN is completely dependent on donations from member states. Therefore, attributing any sinister power grabs to the UN is honestly laughable. This is also the reason why when it comes to war and hardball politics the UN is pretty much anemic.

Phew, I guess that's good enough for one post. I appreciate your question. It gave me the chance to write about something a little bit different.

Oh, one thing is that when I was a little kid I actually went to a UN school. That's probably why I ended up being totally left wing compared to some other people here.

Ajamil
14th February 10, 02:06 AM
Do you hate me that through the whole post, I kept thinking of The Critic?
MeYQgYm3dcI

Robot Jesus
14th February 10, 04:33 PM
I find most people don't understand what the UN is for.

leftists think it's world government trying to stamp out evil, rightists think is a world government trying to stamp out sovereignty. but it's not a world government at all, it's mostly a forum for debate and international networking; a better characterization is an ambassador club.

SFGOON
15th February 10, 05:37 AM
It need to be more of both of the former and less of the latter.

Robot Jesus
15th February 10, 06:43 PM
that's not what it's for. the main propose of the UN is not to control nations but to encourage cooperation.

the league of democracies John McCain proposed would be better suited to more direct action. I still think this is one of the best ideas to come out of the last election.

EuropIan
15th February 10, 10:13 PM
It need to be more of both of the former and less of the latter.
how can you stamp out evil if you can't interfere with sovereignty?

Phrost
17th February 10, 10:19 AM
I like the idea of the "League of Democracies" but only if the ambassadors have to wear spandex.

SFGOON
17th February 10, 12:04 PM
how can you stamp out evil if you can't interfere with sovereignty?

I meant more of an anti-sovereignty-evil-crusher and less of a talking-head-ambassador-club, ya clog-wearin'-tulip-muncher!!!

Robot Jesus
17th February 10, 01:20 PM
I meant more of an anti-sovereignty-evil-crusher and less of a talking-head-ambassador-club, ya clog-wearin'-tulip-muncher!!!


the problem with that is that then the UN stops being a table anyone can sit at. many times this hamstrings the organization, but many times it allows the UN to do things no other NGO can do. Ideally the UN needs to be inoffensive enough to despots that they can still come in and do humanitarian work without anyone bawing American imperialism.