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resolve
2nd October 09, 02:11 PM
http://lordsaveusthemovie.com/

Watch the trailer there or here:

qJRvUtL2H58

A man after my own heart.

I heard an interesting dream prophecy once. The greatest battles of christianity will be against themselves. The prophet's message used alot of interesting imagery. One was where there was an army of light made out of christians in three forces. The first force was the smallest but was an elite force where everyone was brothers and sisters and equal before God. They swept over the earth and their weapons healed the land and restored life instead of taking it. The second force was larger and wasn't able to do as much because they squabbled over rank and file amongst themselves rather than following direction from God. The third force was the largest, and was nothing but a disruptive unruly mob that constantly fought amongst themselves and largely undid everything the first force and second forces had accomplished and left ruin over the earth. But God said "these are still my people, would you have Me abandon them?" and the message was to engage the church itself.

Craigypooh
2nd October 09, 02:14 PM
"a lot" is two words. Just saying.

resolve
2nd October 09, 02:26 PM
Also, I fail.

This should be in the Movies section :-/

Kiko
2nd October 09, 02:29 PM
Also, I fail.

This should be in the Movies section :-/

That sounded like a prayer... you are absolved, brother ;)

partyboy
2nd October 09, 02:32 PM
SPbYeQGlhAI

resolve
2nd October 09, 02:38 PM
Lulz. That movie looks retardedly bad. I can imagine the producers and directors hashing it out:

"JP, guys with wings and cool looking armor aren't scaring our target audience, what should we do?"

"I know, throw in some random scenes from those creepy clown movies! That always pulls em in!"

/lulz




But seriously, I think making the OP movie was important as a talking point. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to talk about religion, which is important, and people get all huffy and walk away or I've lost friends to it. I feel if you can hash it out with people and not even come to an agreement but at the end of the day you're still friends, then it's true and you truly respect each other.

jubei33
2nd October 09, 05:32 PM
I heard an interesting dream prophecy once. The greatest battles of christianity will be against themselves.

sounds like a christian re-interpretation of jihad

Aphid Jones
2nd October 09, 06:45 PM
http://lordsaveusthemovie.com/

Watch the trailer there or here:

qJRvUtL2H58

A man after my own heart.





Dan Merchant put on his bumper-sticker-clad jumpsuit and decided to find out why the Gospel of Love is dividing America.

Yes, because rebuking people is totally anti-Christian and hateful.

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household."’ (Matthew NIV)

Robot Jesus
2nd October 09, 07:02 PM
I only meant that as making war against your own world or religion. I came not to turn father and son against an enemy but against each other.

resolve
3rd October 09, 01:20 AM
sounds like a christian re-interpretation of jihad

Nah, it's not that mystical reinterpretation of teh real Jihad where the Muslim turns agains their own personal failings for Allah.

This dream was about christians who are actually following Christ duking it out with those who aren't or won't within the church itself (those who profess to be a christian of any kind). But totally in the realm of ideas and living your life as an example and taking those who won't to task with prophecy because of the fact that you love them and want them to be living the "life more abundantly" that Christ has promised for them and the fact that having disunity in the church is what's doing the greatest harm to spreading the message of Christ because fringe idiocy, complacency, and/or harmful ideologies with no accountability. Doing so would only better the world christianity is a part of.

I'm sure plenty of you would disagree or not even understand what I just wrote there. But that's where I stand. I think having open, honest dialogue within the church and within the societies where the church stands is one of the first steps.

WarPhalange
3rd October 09, 01:47 AM
But God said "these are still my people, would you have Me abandon them?" and the message was to engage the church itself.

What exactly does God define as "abandonment"? Flooding the entire Earth save for a few deemed worthy enough? Or how about calling a group of people his "chosen people" and then letting them get shat on for thousands of years, culminating in a genocide? Or how about letting his only son get tortured and killed because of some arbitrary rule that could have been overturned without any effort?

That would be a great message if not for this whole "Bible" thing, though. Like having a child be a trouble maker, but you still love it or whatever.

resolve
3rd October 09, 01:49 AM
Yes, because rebuking people is totally anti-Christian and hateful.

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household."’ (Matthew NIV)



"Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it." Matthew 34-39

ANd it's corresponding verse in Luke:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

Is the entire statement at once.

In context this is a prophecy Christ is giving of what His message will have on the world. You cannot introduce a new world and life changing idea without it meeting resistance.

I remember a friend of mine who became a christian. Her parents all but disowned her.

In fact, similar situations have happened to almost all of the christians I know of.
As soon as they become christians and accept Christ's message often times it's their own family that turn their backs on them. But you know what? They never stopped loving their families even when it drove a wedge between them. In fact it steeled them more to help their families with Christlike sacrifice than how selfishly they acted before. In a few circumstances I remember hearing a mom of one and a brother of another claim that they'd rather have their selfish, boozing, slutty daughter/sister back than the christ followers they had become.

Christ is warning not to love your own family more than the creator and thus turn your back on Him to please and placate your earthly relationships, not because He doesn't want you to love them but He wants you to love Him more. And if you've ever had an encounter with the creator of the universe you'd understand why.

Basically it's like saying, in context with the rest of the New Testament message, "don't lose sight of God for temporal relationships, no matter how strong; because knowing that life in God strengthens those relationships even more, to put the good of one relationship over a relationship that affects all relationships is wrong; or that choosing your family over the entire family of God is wrong".

Context helps with this verse alot...

In the ancient world Greek in textual writing there is no word for "like" or "dislike". It is either Love or Hate. Even in minor circumstances.

http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesussayshate.html Is a good launching point source to check out for this.

And here's something else:


In Luke 14:26 Jesus said, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes, even his own life-he cannot be my disciple.”

It may initially appear in this verse that Jesus is saying that we should have the emotion of hate for our families for His sake. But I do not think that is what He was intending with His words. The beginning point for properly understanding this statement is that in Jesus’ ethic there is no room for truly hating anyone. We are to love even our enemies (Luke 6:27). As well, the fifth commandment instructs us: “Honor your father and your mother” (Exodus 20:12), a commandment repeated in the New Testament (Ephesians 6:1-3; Colossians 3:20).10 The Bible Knowledge Commentary notes: “Literally hating one’s family would have been a violation of the Law. Since Jesus on several occasions admonished others to fulfill the Law, He must not have meant here that one should literally hate his family.” Jesus in this verse is apparently using a vivid hyperbole (an exaggeration or extravagant statement used as a figure of speech). In understanding Jesus’ point, one must keep in mind that in the Hebrew mind-set, to “hate” means to “love less” (see Genesis 29:31-33; Deuteronomy 21:15). Jesus is communicating that our supreme love must be for Him alone. Everything else (and everyone else) must take second place. This is in keeping with what Jesus said in Matthew 10:37: “Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” Measuring our supreme love for Christ against other lesser loves may make these lesser loves seem like hate by comparison. Other Bible scholars have suggested that while the terms “love” and “hate” are manifestations of emotion in the Western mindset, the ancient Jews used these terms to refer more to a decision of the will. To “love” often carried the idea of choosing to submit, whereas “hate” often carried the idea of choosing not to submit. “When Christ demanded that one hate those to whom he is bound by the closest of blood ties, He was not speaking in the area of emotions but in the area of the will. A disciple must make a choice and submit to the authority of Christ rather than to the authority of the family headship.” Whichever interpretation is correct above, this passage clearly communicates that one’s loyalty to Jesus Christ must come before loyalty to family. Jesus takes first priority.

The prededing article was excerted form Dr. Ron Rhodes book What Did Jesus Mean?

Ajamil
3rd October 09, 03:00 AM
Nah, it's not that mystical reinterpretation of teh real Jihad where the Muslim turns agains their own personal failings for Allah.

This dream was about christians who are actually following Christ duking it out with those who aren't or won't within the church itself (those who profess to be a christian of any kind). But totally in the realm of ideas and living your life as an example and taking those who won't to task with prophecy because of the fact that you love them and want them to be living the "life more abundantly" that Christ has promised for them and the fact that having disunity in the church is what's doing the greatest harm to spreading the message of Christ because fringe idiocy, complacency, and/or harmful ideologies with no accountability. Doing so would only better the world christianity is a part of.

I'm sure plenty of you would disagree or not even understand what I just wrote there. But that's where I stand. I think having open, honest dialogue within the church and within the societies where the church stands is one of the first steps.
Cultivating a devotional creeper also allows the weeds to grow. If you don't cull the weeds, the creeper is choked.


WALL OF TEXT
I generally agree with
Zomg cult!!1!

Virus
3rd October 09, 03:45 AM
That movie looks like one big 90 minute t3h r34l to me.

Aphid Jones
4th October 09, 03:55 PM
"Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it." Matthew 34-39

ANd it's corresponding verse in Luke:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

Is the entire statement at once.

In context this is a prophecy Christ is giving of what His message will have on the world. You cannot introduce a new world and life changing idea without it meeting resistance.


This post's exegesis has no bearing on my meaning.



That movie looks like one big 90 minute t3h r34l to me.
For once, we agree.

WarPhalange
4th October 09, 09:25 PM
"He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it." Matthew 34-39

What an ass. So much for the whole "all-loving" thing.

Ajamil
5th October 09, 12:04 AM
What an ass. So much for the whole "all-loving" thing.

All-loving HIM, you see; He loves us as we love Him. Hate Him? Well fuck you then, go to Hell.

Aphid Jones
5th October 09, 01:13 AM
All-loving HIM, you see; He loves us as we love Him. Hate Him? Well fuck you then, go to Hell.

The whole point is that He loves us regardless of how we love Him.

resolve
5th October 09, 01:19 AM
All-loving HIM, you see; He loves us as we love Him. Hate Him? Well fuck you then, go to Hell.

Not like He didn't die to provide an easy enough way for you...

Aphid Jones
5th October 09, 01:22 AM
Not like He didn't die to provide an easy enough way for you...
That was the closest I think you can get to a spiritual "wanna go?" macho chest bump attempt.

Don't go down that road.

resolve
5th October 09, 01:37 AM
This post's exegesis has no bearing on MY meaning


Yes, because rebuking people is totally anti-Christian and hateful.

You should be careful not to bend scripture to suit your own meaning. The scripture you used was taken out of context to support what you had to say.

However, it's not like there aren't verses, in context, that support what you have to say either.

Like in John 15:
"2"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3"You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
7"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
8"My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. "

Ecclesiastes 7:5
"It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke than to listen to the song of fools."

Proverbs 9:8
“Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.”

Proverbs 15:32
“He who disdains instruction despises his own soul, but he who heeds rebuke gets understanding.”

Proverbs 17:10
“Rebuke is more effective for a wise man than a hundred blows on a fool.”

Luke 17:3
“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Either way, rebuking wasn't part of the OP's conversation... where exactly are you headed with that in the biblical context you are claiming? I'm not that great at deducing every subtle meaning from internet posts, that's an acquired art. So help illuminating your point would be great!

Aphid Jones
5th October 09, 02:24 AM
You should be careful not to bend scripture to suit your own meaning.

If you're going to act deliberately obtuse, I simply won't do this.

AAAhmed46
6th October 09, 06:44 PM
"Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it." Matthew 34-39

ANd it's corresponding verse in Luke:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

Is the entire statement at once.

In context this is a prophecy Christ is giving of what His message will have on the world. You cannot introduce a new world and life changing idea without it meeting resistance.

I remember a friend of mine who became a christian. Her parents all but disowned her.

In fact, similar situations have happened to almost all of the christians I know of.
As soon as they become christians and accept Christ's message often times it's their own family that turn their backs on them. But you know what? They never stopped loving their families even when it drove a wedge between them. In fact it steeled them more to help their families with Christlike sacrifice than how selfishly they acted before. In a few circumstances I remember hearing a mom of one and a brother of another claim that they'd rather have their selfish, boozing, slutty daughter/sister back than the christ followers they had become.

Christ is warning not to love your own family more than the creator and thus turn your back on Him to please and placate your earthly relationships, not because He doesn't want you to love them but He wants you to love Him more. And if you've ever had an encounter with the creator of the universe you'd understand why.

Basically it's like saying, in context with the rest of the New Testament message, "don't lose sight of God for temporal relationships, no matter how strong; because knowing that life in God strengthens those relationships even more, to put the good of one relationship over a relationship that affects all relationships is wrong; or that choosing your family over the entire family of God is wrong".

Context helps with this verse alot...

In the ancient world Greek in textual writing there is no word for "like" or "dislike". It is either Love or Hate. Even in minor circumstances.

http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesussayshate.html Is a good launching point source to check out for this.

And here's something else:


.

Nothing personal, but you did the exact same thing with the quran. I responded similar to the way you did, but somehow my talking about context didn't count? Why not? Can't you see that christian hate is generated by the same shit as muslim hate? 90% of those guys quote out of context, or truly contriversial parts of the creed are either generalized or improperly explained.

I hope i dont' make ANOTHER Islamic off topic discussion.



Fact is that problems in christianity and other religions happen when the followers don't take the time to actually learn about what they are following, or when they do their totally literalist views (ie 'god planted fossils to test us') ive seen this with almost every religious group, including buddhist and hindus.
Or even worse, they let nationalistic bullshit get in the way.

The prophet warned to be moderate and thoughtful in all things religious, while i believe the bible talks about faith being balanced by wisdom.

Lets look at evolution. How many thiests will argue the whole adam and eve thing to death, not considering that maybe the story of adam and eve is not meant to be taken literally, the quranic and the biblical version is filled with theme and symbolism. If it was meant to be taken literally, why was the story not approche dmatter of factly? Why so much hidden theme?
But most thiests will not even consider such a position, because daddy did not teach it to them(Or mommy)

People forget this and fixate on one aspect. I see this mindset with militant atheists(your run of the mill atheist usually isn't blinded by utter hatred of creed, they just don't believe it) they are so convinced of the evilness of faith that they close themselves to everything else. Hitchens once said he would rather see religion destroyed if he had a choice between the end of faith or world peace.


I think really, we shouldn't get too pissed at criticism, but should worry real critique vs those based on misinformation and ignorance. Too much of that happens with the three abrahamic faiths. They bash eachother endlessly, half of it based on trivial issues or misinformation.
Poop Loops is right to be a bit bitter, since athiests get vilified to the point of retardedness.

Ajamil
8th October 09, 12:24 AM
The whole point is that He loves us regardless of how we love Him.
That He loves us doesn't change, I agree, but in what relationship is that love coming through?

BG 4.11 (http://vedabase.net/bg/4/11/en): As all surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā (http://vedabase.net/p/prtha).
If we love and want to serve, He will give us those opportunities. If we shun and want nothing to do with God, He will send us as far away from Him as He can - in other words, we can go to Hell.


Not like He didn't die to provide an easy enough way for you...

Exceedingly easy. And I'm glad no matter how easy He makes it, He still gives us a choice. It's a point I've brought up before, but I honestly think that if Krishna came and removed all doubt about His existence and omnipotent nature - to the point where everyone absolutely knows there's no overcoming or defeating Him - there would be a great number of people who would resist and fight.

Which is fine. Which is why there's places like this for people like us who don't want things like God (or perhaps just too much God) in our life.

Aphid Jones
8th October 09, 10:37 PM
If I may question a warrant,

Did Jesus create the cosmic rules, or even the laws of physics? Were they his doing?

I'm not trying to get into some godhead debate here, I'm just asking for your opinion in a yes or no.

Ajamil
8th October 09, 11:56 PM
You're probably asking resolve that question, but for me the answer is no. Jesus was an empowered representative of Krishna and His son. We have a saying that the true guru is not God, but he is as good as God.


The spiritual master is to be honored as much as the Supreme Lord, because he is the most confidential servitor of the Lord. This is acknowledged in all revealed scriptures and followed by all authorities. Therefore I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of such a spiritual master, who is a bonafide representative of Sri Hari [Krsna].

resolve
9th October 09, 12:13 AM
If I may question a warrant,

Did Jesus create the cosmic rules, or even the laws of physics? Were they his doing?

I'm not trying to get into some godhead debate here,

[quote]I'm just asking for your opinion in a yes or no.


I hate that, the ONLY yes or no answer, but yes.

Jesus is God/part of God/however you want to frame the trinity. Goddidit.

Aphid Jones
10th October 09, 03:34 PM
I was asking Arjuna.

I asked because there's a big theological difference between God pushing away people because they shun him versus people pushing themselves away from God.

Ajamil
11th October 09, 12:18 AM
I was asking Arjuna.

I asked because there's a big theological difference between God pushing away people because they shun him versus people pushing themselves away from God.

I believe Krishna to be supremely independent and eternally increasing in happiness. It can be easier to speak in terms of "God likes/doesn't like," but I don't believe anything we do can upset Him - that would give us power over an omnipotent being.

TheMightyMcClaw
12th October 09, 03:21 PM
I believe Krishna to be supremely independent and eternally increasing in happiness. It can be easier to speak in terms of "God likes/doesn't like," but I don't believe anything we do can upset Him - that would give us power over an omnipotent being.

You must spread around reputation before giving it to Arjuna again.