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Arhetton
7th September 09, 09:36 AM
W7YQFe9SqF8

pro tip michael... bailouts = socialism, bankruptcy of insolvent institutions = real capitalism.

Curiously, Moore has ended up on the side of many republicans in being opposed to the bailouts, and yet seems to have misunderstood what capitalism is (ie. an economic system to distribute goods and labor in society), and thinks we need to bring in 'democracy' (political system) to replace it.

Capitalism demonstrated its infallibility during the financial crisis - ie. every corrupt stupid motherfucker nearly went broke, including your average joe who bought a house thinking it would double in price in x amount of years. Lots of people were pissed off when the major players were saved from their self inflicted doom, from both sides of the political isle. The fact that businesses fail is a feature of capitalism, and shows that it is working.

Capitalism involves concepts like freedom of contract and private property. What Moore is really railing against is the banking system and corrupt government - which is not necessarily a predominant feature of 'capitalism' but instead a feature of all economic systems. The monetary system is clearly fucked up but I can't be bothered listening to some socialist drivel from moore in this new movie. He's an arts student, not an economist. Whats worse is that this fucker has a fanbase and the distribution to large groups of people that I'll have to avoid talking to for violence for the next, oh I don't know, ten years or so.

Capitalism is about having savings and capital goods, whilst for many years the American economy has been based on consumption and borrowing.

Fact of the matter is that recessions are a necessary part of the financial cycle - you need dumb ass businesses to go broke, people who take crazy risks to fail etc. Prime example is some of the businesses from the dot com bubble. That is a feature of capitalism (failure). Failure needs to be rebuilt into the system.

Truculent Sheep
7th September 09, 10:45 AM
Moore is not to be trusted. He is a demagogue who manipulates his audience with cloying sentimentality and overwrought schmaltz. He freely distorts and manipulates, insinuates and outright lies. He is manipulative and devious. He is treacherous and insincere. He is excused by blind followers who claim his distortions are validated by him revealing a 'greater truth'. His use of language is disingenuous. He is both ignorant and promotes ignorance. He is a rabble rouser and a fraud.

Actually, he'd make a great Republican.

Dagon Akujin
7th September 09, 05:19 PM
As I tell my RepubliNazi Christian aquaintances all the time: If you hate how Michael Moore spins, distorts, sells half truths, and gets the nation riled up ignorantly, then you should also hate Rush, Hannity, O'Reilley, Levin, Savage, etc.

Two sides, same coin.

Of course, the RepubliNazi Christ-fags never quite see it that way.

Cullion
7th September 09, 06:23 PM
Michael Moore obviously has very different political instincts to me.

I thought he dug up some important stuff in Bowling for Columbine that he didn't roll with properly because it contradicted his original thesis.

My instincts tell me that he is a bitter dude who is angry with his own culture because he was upset about being picked on for being a fat unatheletic kid at school.

Yes, the bank bailout was a total heist. I've yet to meet somebody who thought otherwise who wasn't demonstrably either i) in the banks' employ and/or ii) a certifiable drooling idiot.

Vieux Normand
7th September 09, 07:35 PM
Someone please remind me: what country produced Michael Moore?

Ajamil
7th September 09, 08:05 PM
Mordor. One can, apparently, waddle out of Mordor just fine.

SFGOON
7th September 09, 08:34 PM
On the bright side, he does look as though he's lost weight. Still has that raunchy beard though. What the fuck is it with older US lefties and those nasty, untrimmed beards?

bob
7th September 09, 08:39 PM
On the bright side, he does look as though he's lost weight. Still has that raunchy beard though. What the fuck is it with older US lefties and those nasty, untrimmed beards?

Trotsky.

Ajamil
7th September 09, 09:29 PM
Did you watch the vid? 40 seconds in and there he is in all his babyface exuberance. Moore-dor needs a beard, just not an unkempt, post-kitten sweater beard.

Artful Dentures
7th September 09, 09:39 PM
Capitlaism is pretty fucked though, however until someone comes up with something better and proves it doesn't suck more I'll just stick with capitalism

danno
7th September 09, 11:14 PM
nice one, Ar.

resolve
7th September 09, 11:34 PM
As I tell my RepubliNazi Christian aquaintances all the time: If you hate how Michael Moore spins, distorts, sells half truths, and gets the nation riled up ignorantly, then you should also hate Rush, Hannity, O'Reilley, Levin, Savage, etc.

Two sides, same coin.

Of course, the RepubliNazi Christ-fags never quite see it that way.

I've often wondered on this point myself.

The thing is, the republican party is the one that caters to a set of morals that christians can agree with (although it does it absolutely failtastically). The democrats are focused on basically disturbing the shit out of christians morally. To christians, morals are the most important factor on deciding leadership and depending on their level of world ignorance they'll latch onto whoever will trumpet their "moral factor" the most, along with any other actual bullshit they carry with them. And then they wonder why they feel betrayed.

Historically christians used to follow the Democrats very closely as they espoused things like fighting for the common man, the sick, the elderly and repairing race relations. Actual practice of christianity is very close to socialism administered through the church so this wasn't a huge stretch for many christians to make. Fast forward several decades and so many issues which are their own ridiculous can of worms in and of themselves like homosexual rights, removing any semblance of a christian past/heritage from government property, the free speech wars on porn/prayer/violence/etc/etc, many different sex ed debacles, and the list goes on...

So the Republican party, party of big business and conservative outlooks (to the detriment of progress and rights) decided that to maintain their votes they would capitolize on this disenfranchised group of voters and decided to market themselves as the "moral" party by embracing the kind of morals set forth by the Bible while ignoring some of the most major parts of the Bible about social justice, money, on being a hypocrite, et cetera...

And so we have the mishmash of people today.

It's funny how often you guys talk about "christfag republicans" when the time I actually went to a private chrstian university for a few years before transferring (transferred to quite a few unis actually) the main types of christians I met were democrats ("libtards" in sociocide-speak) still trying to work out their faith and morals through how the democratic party does business nowadays because to them social justice was the more important issue (another side of the moral coin so to speak).


Thank God I've chosen to be indep and vote on whoever blindly spouts whatever promises about issues they won't fulfill...

Ajamil
8th September 09, 12:00 AM
I've often wondered on this point myself.
Funniest part about listening to Rush is how he spaghetti's the past to make everything he says now fit with everything he's said before.


...ignoring some of the most major parts of the Bible about social justice, money, on being a hypocrite, et cetera...

This is where separation of church and state DO apply, duhh.

EuropIan
8th September 09, 12:49 AM
he's complaining about corperatism for the most part...


Unfortunately saying that this isn't "the true" capitalism represented here is exactly like defending communism by pointing out that Soviet Russia was in fact a State capitalist system.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th September 09, 01:09 AM
On the bright side, he does look as though he's lost weight. Still has that raunchy beard though. What the fuck is it with older US lefties and those nasty, untrimmed beards?

he looks like a turkey without a beard

Arhetton
8th September 09, 01:46 AM
I'm pretty much just ranting but as soon as I watched this it just pissed me off momentously. I am all for an investigation of how the bailouts proceeded and who was responsible for oversight etc.

I support the government 'easing' the financial crisis by providing some liquidity during the most fucked up moments - but you know what?

Anyone figure what a real capitalistic (ie. profit seeking) government would have done? If they paid for the companies, they should have kept them (nationalisation), or if they weren't buying ownership, they should have lent them (the banks) money at interest (to make a profit)! that the banks would have had to pay back, and if they couldn't meet their payments then the government could have claimed their colateral over a broader period of time. I even heard bill clinton suggest loans in an interview rather than a giveaway.

Shawarma
8th September 09, 07:41 AM
he's complaining about corperatism for the most part...
Seems correct. Not sure his understanding of the term "capitalism" is the same as mine, and it's not clear how his "democracy" is different from the democracy already in place.

Truculent Sheep
8th September 09, 07:45 AM
he's complaining about corperatism for the most part...


Unfortunately saying that this isn't "the true" capitalism represented here is exactly like defending communism by pointing out that Soviet Russia was in fact a State capitalist system.

I see it more in terms of the rule of Law, and the credibility of the Law to begin with. The banks acted immorally and the laws and regulations meant to keep them in check were lacking, partly because lawmakers and bankers were far too much in bed with one another. (Imagine a sheep dog and a wolf being best mates.)

Virus
8th September 09, 08:06 AM
I don't like Michael Moore because he supports the fanatic Islamic militias in Iraq.

danno
8th September 09, 08:34 PM
I don't like Michael Moore because he supports the fanatic Islamic militias in Iraq.

really?

what has he said regarding this?

MSphinx
8th September 09, 09:31 PM
really?

what has he said regarding this?

I think Virus may be referring to something Moore wrote in 2004:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2004-04-14



The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win.

TheLordHumungus
8th September 09, 10:35 PM
W7YQFe9SqF8

pro tip michael... bailouts = socialism,

Fail.

Pro-tip, my man. Socialists don't give banks and corporations bailouts, they nationalize them.

TheLordHumungus
8th September 09, 10:40 PM
On the bright side, he does look as though he's lost weight. Still has that raunchy beard though. What the fuck is it with older US lefties and those nasty, untrimmed beards?

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2256/checigar2.jpg

Arhetton
8th September 09, 10:42 PM
what would you call the management of the crisis then?

Virus
8th September 09, 11:26 PM
I think Virus may be referring to something Moore wrote in 2004:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2004-04-14

That's exactly the quote. Only a stupid ass or a moral nihilist would say such a thing.

danno
8th September 09, 11:53 PM
The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win.

lolwut

Kiko
9th September 09, 08:15 AM
If Moore would donate all the profits from his films to charity, then perhaps he'd have a bit more credibility criticizing capitalism.

socratic
9th September 09, 09:38 AM
I'm surprised anyone is shocked a dumbass like him would do this shit.

Spade: The Real Snake
9th September 09, 10:53 AM
If Moore would donate all the profits from his films to charity, then perhaps he'd have a bit more credibility criticizing capitalism.

^^^

Ajamil
9th September 09, 11:16 AM
Wait, he's criticizing capitalism? The preview for his film sounded like a bash on socialist programs like using govt. money to help private industry.

Cullion
9th September 09, 01:22 PM
I don't usually defend socialism, but..

Bailing out privately owned money lending corporations whilst allowing the management to pay themselves substantial 'performance' bonuses, without helping the poor people who are defaulting on the debt is not socialism. It's fascist economics. Srs.

Spade: The Real Snake
9th September 09, 01:56 PM
I don't usually defend socialism, but..

Bailing out privately owned money lending corporations whilst allowing the management to pay themselves substantial 'performance' bonuses, without helping the poor people who are defaulting on the debt is not socialism. It's fascist economics. Srs.

Controlling Government interest in automobile manufacturers would be Socialist.

Cullion
9th September 09, 02:00 PM
Yes. I was just thinking of the credit market bailouts.

Ajamil
9th September 09, 02:57 PM
So we had a fascist flub with the banks, and tried to fix it with a socialist nod to the autos?

Cullion
9th September 09, 03:01 PM
Yes, it looked that way to me.

Spade: The Real Snake
9th September 09, 03:04 PM
All for the greater good.

Ajamil
9th September 09, 03:20 PM
Which is capitalism...I think I'm getting the hang of it.

Spade: The Real Snake
9th September 09, 03:23 PM
the correct answer is:

yUpbOliTHJY

TheLordHumungus
9th September 09, 03:44 PM
I don't usually defend socialism, but..

Bailing out privately owned money lending corporations whilst allowing the management to pay themselves substantial 'performance' bonuses, without helping the poor people who are defaulting on the debt is not socialism. It's fascist economics. Srs.

^Stole my answer. Oh well, property is theft anyway ;)

TheLordHumungus
9th September 09, 03:45 PM
Controlling Government interest in automobile manufacturers would be Socialist.

Its getting there. Just a few more steps forward, comrade.

EuropIan
9th September 09, 03:49 PM
All for the greater good.
Invisible handjobs