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Ajamil
20th August 09, 10:26 AM
And once you finish with that, I'd like to know your thoughts on the Kia Soul. Being a tall dude, my next car I want to be a boxy thing that lets me sit upright rather than in a lounged position. I've ridden in and driven my cousin's Scion, which was hella comfy, and the Soul seems to have simialr (if not bigger) dimensions.

I'm also poor, so the tiny price tag and otherwise small size thus (usually) better gas mileage looks good for the pocketbook. Any thoughts or advice on this guy?

http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/kia_soul_production_31.jpg

I also do like how they tried to break up the box outline with the bottom of the window line.

http://images.myride.com/images/vehicle/2008/Kia/Soul/oem/KiaSoul.018_%28544x408%29.jpg

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/kia_soul.jpg

Spade: The Real Snake
20th August 09, 10:37 AM
I have a Honda Element, am over 6'1" and have tons of headroom. The utilitarian interior allows for easy cleanup, it is wide on the interior so even with 4 people in the car it doesn't seem cramped. It has a small wheelbase so the handling is pretty good for a rolling toaster and I have been able to fit a 9' ladder inside with the front and rear seats folded down. I got the 4X4 model and was able to get through the freak snowstorm we had last winter with no problems and get through flooded washes with minimal effort.

Also check out the Nissan Cube. Don't know much about it but it looks interesting.

FickleFingerOfFate
20th August 09, 10:41 AM
Or, you could, God forbid, buy an american car.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th August 09, 10:42 AM
Or, you could, God forbid, buy an american car.
Will you help push it?

FickleFingerOfFate
20th August 09, 10:47 AM
Check the quality benchmarks for the last 5 years,

and quit perpetuating 15 year old stereotypes.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th August 09, 10:52 AM
Check the quality benchmarks for the last 5 years,

and quit perpetuating 15 year old stereotypes.
LOL.
I have the mentality of a 15 yr. old, what do you expect?
Now, commere big feller and gimme a hug.

Ajamil
20th August 09, 10:57 AM
Are you suggesting that a purely personal choice should be overswayed by a nationalistic reason?

Do you have an American counterpart to recommend? I'm not locked down to anything - I was looking at Scions cause they were comfy and the website mentioned these things, and I like them.

How much is an element? Is the price range comparable? 2010 Souls are right around 19K.

FickleFingerOfFate
20th August 09, 10:58 AM
> Runs over Snake with my '09 HHR <

FickleFingerOfFate
20th August 09, 11:00 AM
Are you suggesting that a purely personal choice should be overswayed by a nationalistic reason?

Do you have an American counterpart to recommend? I'm not locked down to anything - I was looking at Scions cause they were comfy and the website mentioned these things, and I like them.

How much is an element? Is the price range comparable? 2010 Souls are right around 19K.


Chevy HHR - $17-19,000, moderately equipped.


(Mine was 24,000, but it has every option that you can put on it, plus the "Special" color for '09)


As for why I recommend them, I was on the team that did development work on them, and I own 2 of them.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th August 09, 11:31 AM
Are you suggesting that a purely personal choice should be overswayed by a nationalistic reason?
Yes.
You as a US Citizen now have a stake in GM.


Do you have an American counterpart to recommend? I'm not locked down to anything - I was looking at Scions cause they were comfy and the website mentioned these things, and I like them.
Scion is a Toyota off-brand and are, for the most part, shit.


How much is an element? Is the price range comparable? 2010 Souls are right around 19K.
I picked mine up for around 19K in 2005, it was a 4WD EX, but I got a good deal on it.
If I were to buy one right now, I would look at the SC edition but you can probably get a 2WD base element in the 19K range. The Honda has a better reliability rating then the Kia, but the Kia has a nicer looking bodystyle

Ajamil
20th August 09, 12:03 PM
Chevy HHR - $17-19,000, moderately equipped.
I'll check it out. Chevy dealer's closer anyway and laziness is always a factor in my decisions.


As for why I recommend them, I was on the team that did development work on them, and I own 2 of them.
Cool.


Yes.
You as a US Citizen now have a stake in GM.
Oh. Right...damn.

Ajamil
20th August 09, 12:28 PM
Car ________________Soul ____ HHR LS
Standard Seating _____5 ............. 5
Front Headroom (in.) __40.2 .........39.6
Rear Headroom (in.) ___39.6......... 39
Front Legroom (in.) ___42.1.......... 40.6
Rear Legroom (in.) ____39 ............39.5
F Shoulder Room (in.) __55.2......... 53.5
R Shoulder Room (in.) __55.1 ........52.7
Front Hip Room (in.) ___53.3 .........50.1
Rear Hip Room (in.) ___52.7 ..........50.6


Front legroom actually is my biggest deciding factor right now. Cars kill me and visiting family means I drive a lot. Those extra inches can save my hip and back and not make my knees splay on either side of the steering wheel.

Also, more insults as I horribly misremember the MSRP of a Kia Soul:
Soul: $13,300

HHR LS: $18,720
From this site. (http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2010/kia/soul/compare.html?Vehicle0.Make=Kia&Vehicle0.Model=Soul&Vehicle0.Year=2010&Vehicle0.Trim=;_HB;FWD;L4&Vehicle2.Make=Scion&Vehicle2.Model=xB&Vehicle2.Year=2010&Vehicle2.Trim=;_HB;FWD;L4&Vehicle3.Make=Dodge&Vehicle3.Model=Caliber&Vehicle3.Year=2010&Vehicle3.Trim=SXT;_WG;FWD;L4&PageNumber=1&TotalPages=4&Vehicle%5B1%5D.Make=Chevrolet%7C16&Vehicle%5B1%5D.Model=HHR%7C1479&Vehicle%5B1%5D.Year=2010&Vehicle%5B1%5D.Trim=LS%3B_SU%3BFWD%3BL4%7C563%3B36 %3B4%3B6)

FickleFingerOfFate
20th August 09, 01:21 PM
Yeah, american quality is much better than it used to be... BUT the UAW is one of the greediest, shortsighted, misguided institutions in the US. The less I support them, the better.

HELLO! MY NAEM IS DUG! I FAILED MAThS But I GET PADE $50 an Hour AND GRATE BEnefits to Put this bolt here All day!

They are almost fully to blame for US auto industries $$ problems. WAAAYYY overpaid.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The data does not support this conclusion, and buying into the rhetoric that is out there, puts the purpatrators of this type of thinking much closer to the object of their ridicule, than the average auto-worker is.

Neildo
20th August 09, 01:21 PM
rear end is weird looking. that is a huge blind spot between the back window and the rear side passenger window, goddamn.

the nissan cube is even uglier and has less power, which is sad compared to a kia.

my dad bought an AWD 93 GMC safari off a co worker for $300. hauls ass, climbs steep fucking hills, can comfortably fit my 6' 220lb ass, and you could probably fit a smart car in the cargo space in the back. weighs 2 metric fucktons but whatever. only thing he had to do so far for maintenance (besides regular fluid changes) was change some of the weatherstripping around the rear cargo door, and swap out a timing belt. better deal than that korean lump IMO.

Fearless Ukemi
20th August 09, 02:53 PM
I wouldn't be caught dead in that thing.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
20th August 09, 04:24 PM
Yeah man. I'd walk to the party before I'd take that tub of shit.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th August 09, 04:46 PM
I wouldn't be caught dead in that thing.

wanna bet?

http://www.autobiz.ie/uploadedfiles/t2_Mondeo_Hearse.jpg

Neildo
20th August 09, 04:50 PM
damn that's a cool hearse. the new ford focus actually isn't that bad. a lot of what they've learned with rally racing has gone into it.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
20th August 09, 04:53 PM
The OP car looks like a transformer. Not the robots, like a literal gigantic toy where you can get out and start moving pieces to turn it into a battle ready robot with missile launching action.

KO'd N DOA
20th August 09, 04:53 PM
I am confused in Canada who to buy my car from. Toyota and Honda have plants here that build cars - the Big three - well we are not sure they will keep building here, even closing plants, however billions of my tax money has been bet on them by the government bailing them out.

Kia just haven't demonstrated to me winter driving, and road salt.

Neildo
20th August 09, 05:01 PM
my friend got a pontiac vibe, built in ontario. it's a toyota matrix but with the pontiac badge, and it kept people in his hometown in a job. it's actually not bad, manual transmission is nice and it has lots of cargo space once you fold all the seats down. can haul pretty good on the freeway commute. factory stereo is decent and has an aux-in port right in the front so you can connect your mp3 player. ride is kinda hard though.

Dark Helmet
20th August 09, 05:11 PM
Neildo, did your friend feel pressured into buying a car that was built in his home town? Fuck! I'd really hate that. I'd want to show up in any dream car I'd want.

Neildo
20th August 09, 05:20 PM
not really. it was cheap and he had a baby on the way so it was a good choice and just happened to keep people employed as a bonus. i guess another bonus is that it actually handles well, i don't think he was expecting that from what is basically a station wagon except smaller.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th August 09, 11:46 PM
my friend got a pontiac vibe, built in ontario. it's a toyota matrix but with the pontiac badge, and it kept people in his hometown in a job. it's actually not bad, manual transmission is nice and it has lots of cargo space once you fold all the seats down. can haul pretty good on the freeway commute. factory stereo is decent and has an aux-in port right in the front so you can connect your mp3 player. ride is kinda hard though.

We had a Matrix for about 3 years.
Overall, wasn't happy with it.

Neildo
21st August 09, 02:34 AM
my friends vibe is pretty new, an '08 i think. maybe they addressed some problems?

honesty
21st August 09, 02:48 AM
Cant really comment on other available models in the US, but damn, thats an ugly car.

billy sol hurok
21st August 09, 06:48 AM
I was intrigued by the Matrix when it first came out, but happened to rent a Vibe while on vacation -- that cured me. (It was a couple-four years ago, so maybe they've improved.)

Element is a very useful crossover vehicle, at a very reasonable price. However, the gas mileage is lousy. (Not surprising, considering that it has the aerodynamics of a brick . . . and a TALL brick at that.)

Ajamil
21st August 09, 09:36 AM
I know they're supposed to be basically the same type of car, but no - the Element is nasty. Do not want.

And the Soul is also ugly from a classic vehicle standpoint, yeah, but I'm not buying for looks. That and anything would look nicer than what I currently own.

I don't think the pics give it justice, it's kinda like a shortened RAV4.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/06/05/010047.1-lg.jpg

FickleFingerOfFate
21st August 09, 06:51 PM
No, the rhetoric is "Buy America, support something good" when what you are supporting is unions. Unions need to go. They are not serving the purpose for which they were originally created and only hurt America's ability to compete.

If I AM GOING TO SUPPORT SOCIALISM by purchasing an automobile, I will support it in Germany or Japan or Italy, not my home country.

Surprisingly, because I worked at a car dealership and know more about cars than the average person, many of my friends come to me for help and advice when they buy a car. Thank heavens I have been able to steer those silly enough to consider American towards better options, both socially and fiscally. (Value)

You are a fucking idiot, who's talking from a position of ignorance,

or, you're being disingenuous for the sake of being controversial.

Either way, you're making the people who listen to you dumber by association.

FickleFingerOfFate
21st August 09, 07:03 PM
Says someone who would tend to be less objective as they are part of the mess.

In Arizona I ran into so many meatheads laid off from the GM testing plant they had down there. The only 2 syllable word most of them could say was 'Nascar'

I've met degreed engineers who didn't have the common sense to use eye protection when they were observing a laser-cutting operation.

Does that make all engineers morons?

Are there people in your socio-economic circle who you would be mortified to be compared to?

There are embarrassments in every facet of life,

the auto workers have been vilified so that the public could blame them, rather than the people who actually wield decision making powers for the fall of the US auto industry.

Unfortunately, people too lazy, or stupid to do their homework, believe the rhetoric.

The abysmally retarded, perpetuate it.

FickleFingerOfFate
21st August 09, 07:08 PM
Let's see some evidence to the contrary. If you tell me auto workers are underpaid I can only laugh. Unions are a big part of airlines problems remaining solvent as well. Teacher's unions shield incompetency. I can't thnk of one US union that should stick around.

The average US auto worker makes $28.00/hour, new hires, $14.00.

Most of the complaints about union personnel are a result of management that doesn't want to manage, the rules are in place to deal with the problems you mention, they just aren't used effectively.

FickleFingerOfFate
22nd August 09, 09:23 AM
$28 per hour for an average is waaay too high. For the skills required, it should be $20 or less.

Check the facts, the new standard is, or couldn't you be bothered to finish the sentence you pulled that figure out of.


Complaints about unions mostly stem from repeated situations where jobs are protected at all costs,

This is an outdated and rare occurrence. Lets get rid of cars, because the 73 pinto exploded.


ignoring reality, benefits are inflated to ridiculous degrees and don't change with the times,

You're absolutely right on this one. Union wages and benefits have slipped in comparison to the national average over the last 10 years. But, that's not what you meant, was it?


and seniority is valued over aptitude.

Skill set is a delineation, seniority is a tiebreaker. Do you actually know anything about union process?




Unions need to disappear. I purposely avoid, as much as possible, goods and services where the workers are in unions.
Then you'd best avoid products from Germany, Italy, France, Puerto Rico, Canada, anything that is transported by truck, plane, rail, handled by hotel and food service personnel, and please, don't bother to call the police, or fire department, don't put out your trash, or use the mail service....


Have you got any idea how retarded your argument is becoming?

Try looking around you and understanding the situation, instead of getting your news from the Republican radical right.


If you do your homework, you won't sound like a 7 year-old when you debate.

FickleFingerOfFate
22nd August 09, 05:12 PM
I said I try to avoid. I also said earlier I would rather support socialist ideals like unions in other countries than here.


So, it's ok to support other economies, but not our own, because of a system you dont have a complete understanding of?




I avoided going full retard. You didn't.


That is debatable, but considering who I'm dealing with, the effort would be wasted.


You sound like a tired old man. I don't get my information from the right, I get it from experience.

Please, enlighten me as to your extensive experience with union personnel, that doesn't involve the media, or hearsay.


My father worked with unions as Chief operating officer of many companies and as consultants for other companies, including automotive manufacturers, for about 25 years before he retired.

And, I'm sure, he has given you an exhaustive description of all union personnel, and not just the incidents that pissed him off, or that he was told about by yet another person, but his own personal experience, in an unbiased and moderate recounting.



Not being able to fire people who don't show up several times without any notice,

Poor quality management, this can be dealt with easily within the structure of the contract.


having to promote someone because of seniority over someone more skilled, (even if they have a check in a 'skillset' box, what a joke)

How does one promote a union worker who is by design the same as his counterparts, defined by his classification?


spending time honing the manufacturing / supply process to a well oiled machine with no wasted steps only to have that competitive advantage eroded by high wages and bloated benefits, etc are just a few of the problems unions caused.

How old is the data on this complaint? I keep asking, but you never seem to get around to citing your sources date.



I earn a good wage because I deserve it and am compensated by the market, and I don't have to kowtow to any union boss or rules designed to shift power to union management and old-timers losing their edge.


We'll see what your wage looks like when the baseline, defined by the union scale, is eroded. Or, did you think that once unions are gone, companies are going to quit looking for ways to cut costs?

Shotgun Christening
22nd August 09, 05:33 PM
Let me give you a specific example ok?

The Union Electricians in Memphis (IBEW 474) Make around 29$/hr plus about an $11 benefit package that includes medical (expensive at around 5.55 for every hour worked) retirement, and some odds and ends things.

That brings the burden rate of the company for the man at around $40 an hour.

I know for a fact that a Union Electricians going street rate (the rate per hour the charge for a service call) is between $80 and $95 an hour.
If you called a reputable non union electrical contractor he would give you the same rates. However, the going rate for a non-Union Electrician is around @23/hr. No benefit package on top of that. Helath Insurance and Retirement come out of their own pocket.

So lets do the math ok?:

Union

A - B=C

A. $80/hr billing rate
B. $40/hr pay scale

80 - 40 = 40

Thats $40/hr they make of their men.


Non-Union

A. $80/hr billing rate
B. $23/hr pay scale

80 - 23 = 57

Thats $57/hr they make off their men.

Now....whos getting rich?

Dark Helmet
22nd August 09, 07:07 PM
anything that is transported by truck, plane, rail, handled by hotel and food service personnel, and please, don't bother to call the police, or fire department, don't put out your trash, or use the mail service....


Have you got any idea how retarded your argument is becoming?


So my fire wont get put out because the fire crews aren't union?



I avoided going full retard. You didn't.


Everybody knows you never go full retard.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8561/mortonblackface.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/i/mortonblackface.jpg/)

FickleFingerOfFate
22nd August 09, 07:55 PM
So my fire wont get put out because the fire crews aren't union?



He stated that he specifically avoided union goods and services, so apparently he would rather watch his property burn than support the evil that the union firefighters represent.

Personally, I support him in this facet of the decision.

Ajamil
23rd August 09, 08:35 PM
So did Sirc ever even get on this thread? I'm disappointed.

Sirc
25th August 09, 11:24 AM
WTF. Why on earth would you fucking buy a Kia Soul?

Driving a Korean car says, "I don't care about driving. I don't know what I'm doing." That car is a pile of shit, like a Honda Element.

Ajamil
25th August 09, 01:18 PM
"I don't care about driving. I don't know what I'm doing."

Yep, that's pretty much the message I want. Thanks for coming on here to insult me, any suggestions on a similar vehicle? I'm looking for cheap and sitting-up leg room.

Sirc
25th August 09, 02:37 PM
Yep, that's pretty much the message I want. Thanks for coming on here to insult me, any suggestions on a similar vehicle? I'm looking for cheap and sitting-up leg room.

RAV4.

Are you looking for new?

New, I would look at a Mazda 2 or Mazda 3, Matrix, Yaris, or Fit.

Ajamil
25th August 09, 11:18 PM
Thankee, I'll check `em out.