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View Full Version : Do clothes 'maketh the man'? (MJS, you're needed)



Harpy
28th July 09, 12:54 AM
MJS - I'm not stylish, just functional and sometimes when I see high fashion or trends my friends/sisters wear I cannot even imagine myself pulling off such looks.

Is this because I don't have the right attitude? Does one have to don a certain persona to wear certain clothes?

Arhetton
28th July 09, 02:11 AM
"How, then, comes it, may the reflective mind repeat, that the grand Tissue of all Tissues, the only real Tissue, should have been quite overlooked by Science,—the vestural Tissue, namely, of woollen or other cloth; which Man's Soul wears as its outmost wrappage and overall; wherein his whole other Tissues are included and screened, his whole Faculties work, his whole Self lives, moves, and has its being? For if, now and then, some straggling broken-winged thinker has cast an owl's glance into this obscure region, the most have soared over it altogether heedless; regarding Clothes as a property, not an accident, as quite natural and spontaneous, like the leaves of trees, like the plumage of birds. In all speculations they have tacitly figured man as a Clothed Animal; whereas he is by nature a Naked Animal; and only in certain circumstances, by purpose and device, masks himself in Clothes. Shakespeare says, we are creatures that look before and after: the more surprising that we do not look round a little, and see what is passing under our very eyes."

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Sartor_Resartus/Book_1/Chapter_1

Thomas Carlyle


"But, on the whole," continues our eloquent Professor, "Man is a Tool-using Animal (Handthierendes Thier). Weak in himself, and of small stature, he stands on a basis, at most for the flattest-soled, of some half-square foot, insecurely enough; has to straddle out his legs, lest the very wind supplant him. Feeblest of bipeds! Three quintals are a crushing load for him; the steer of the meadow tosses him aloft, like a waste rag. Nevertheless he can use Tools; can devise Tools: with these the granite mountain melts into light dust before him; he kneads glowing iron, as if it were soft paste; seas are his smooth highway, winds and fire his unwearying steeds. Nowhere do you find him without Tools; without Tools he is nothing, with Tools he is all."
Here may we not, for a moment, interrupt the stream of Oratory with a remark, that this Definition of the Tool-using Animal appears to us, of all that Animal-sort, considerably the precisest and best? Man is called a Laughing Animal: but do not the apes also laugh, or attempt to do it; and is the manliest man the greatest and oftenest laugher? Teufelsdrockh himself, as we said, laughed only once. Still less do we make of that other French Definition of the Cooking Animal; which, indeed, for rigorous scientific purposes, is as good as useless. Can a Tartar be said to cook, when he only readies his steak by riding on it? Again, what Cookery does the Greenlander use, beyond stowing up his whale-blubber, as a marmot, in the like case, might do? Or how would Monsieur Ude prosper among those Orinoco Indians who, according to Humboldt, lodge in crow-nests, on the branches of trees; and, for half the year, have no victuals but pipe-clay, the whole country being under water? But, on the other hand, show us the human being, of any period or climate, without his Tools: those very Caledonians, as we saw, had their Flint-ball, and Thong to it, such as no brute has or can have.
"Man is a Tool-using Animal," concludes Teufelsdrockh, in his abrupt way; "of which truth Clothes are but one example: and surely if we consider the interval between the first wooden Dibble fashioned by man, and those Liverpool Steam-carriages, or the British House of Commons, we shall note what progress he has made. He digs up certain black stones from the bosom of the earth, and says to them, Transport me and this luggage at the rate of file-and-thirty miles an hour; and they do it: he collects, apparently by lot, six hundred and fifty-eight miscellaneous individuals, and says to them, Make this nation toil for us, bleed for us, hunger and, sorrow and sin for us; and they do it."


"Aprons are Defences; against injury to cleanliness, to safety, to modesty, sometimes to roguery. From the thin slip of notched silk (as it were, the emblem and beatified ghost of an Apron), which some highest-bred housewife, sitting at Nurnberg Work-boxes and Toy-boxes, has gracefully fastened on; to the thick-tanned hide, girt round him with thongs, wherein the Builder builds, and at evening sticks his trowel; or to those jingling sheet-iron Aprons, wherein your otherwise half-naked Vulcans hammer and smelt in their smelt-furnace,—is there not range enough in the fashion and uses of this Vestment? How much has been concealed, how much has been defended in Aprons! Nay, rightly considered, what is your whole Military and Police Establishment, charged at uncalculated millions, but a huge scarlet-colored, iron-fastened Apron, wherein Society works (uneasily enough); guarding itself from some soil and stithy-sparks, in this Devil's-smithy (Teufels-schmiede) of a world? But of all Aprons the most puzzling to me hitherto has been the Episcopal or Cassock. Wherein consists the usefulness of this Apron? The Overseer (Episcopus) of Souls, I notice, has tucked in the corner of it, as if his day's work were done: what does he shadow forth thereby?" &c. &c.


"It was in some such mood, when wearied and fordone with these high speculations, that I first came upon the question of Clothes. Strange enough, it strikes me, is this same fact of there being Tailors and Tailored. The Horse I ride has his own whole fell: strip him of the girths and flaps and extraneous tags I have fastened round him, and the noble creature is his own sempster and weaver and spinner; nay his own boot-maker, jeweller, and man-milliner; he bounds free through the valleys, with a perennial rain-proof court-suit on his body; wherein warmth and easiness of fit have reached perfection; nay, the graces also have been considered, and frills and fringes, with gay variety of color, featly appended, and ever in the right place, are not wanting. While I—good Heaven!— have thatched myself over with the dead fleeces of sheep, the bark of vegetables, the entrails of worms, the hides of oxen or seals, the felt of furred beasts; and walk abroad a moving Rag-screen, overheaped with shreds and tatters raked from the Charnel-house of Nature, where they would have rotted, to rot on me more slowly! Day after day, I must thatch myself anew; day after day, this despicable thatch must lose some film of its thickness; some film of it, frayed away by tear and wear, must be brushed off into the Ashpit, into the Laystall; till by degrees the whole has been brushed thither, and I, the dust-making, patent Rat-grinder, get new material to grind down. O subter-brutish! vile! most vile! For have not I too a compact all-enclosing Skin, whiter or dingier? Am I a botched mass of tailors' and cobblers' shreds, then; or a tightly articulated, homogeneous little Figure, automatic, nay alive?
"Strange enough how creatures of the human-kind shut their eyes to plainest facts; and by the mere inertia of Oblivion and Stupidity, live at ease in the midst of Wonders and Terrors. But indeed man is, and was always, a blockhead and dullard; much readier to feel and digest, than to think and consider. Prejudice, which he pretends to hate, is his absolute lawgiver; mere use-and-wont everywhere leads him by the nose; thus let but a Rising of the Sun, let but a Creation of the World happen twice, and it ceases to be marvellous, to be noteworthy, or noticeable. Perhaps not once in a lifetime does it occur to your ordinary biped, of any country or generation, be he gold-mantled Prince or russet-jerkined Peasant, that his Vestments and his Self are not one and indivisible; that he is naked, without vestments, till he buy or steal such, and by forethought sew and button them.
"For my own part, these considerations, of our Clothes-thatch, and how, reaching inwards even to our heart of hearts, it tailorizes and demoralizes us, fill me with a certain horror at myself and mankind; almost as one feels at those Dutch Cows, which, during the wet season, you see grazing deliberately with jackets and petticoats (of striped sacking), in the meadows of Gouda. Nevertheless there is something great in the moment when a man first strips himself of adventitious wrappages; and sees indeed that he is naked, and, as Swift has it, 'a forked straddling animal with bandy legs;' yet also a Spirit, and unutterable Mystery of Mysteries."


"To the eye of vulgar Logic," says he, "what is man? An omnivorous Biped that wears Breeches. To the eye of Pure Reason what is he? A Soul, a Spirit, and divine Apparition. Round his mysterious ME, there lies, under all those wool-rags, a Garment of Flesh (or of Senses), contextured in the Loom of Heaven; whereby he is revealed to his like, and dwells with them in UNION and DIVISION; and sees and fashions for himself a Universe, with azure Starry Spaces, and long Thousands of Years. Deep-hidden is he under that strange Garment; amid Sounds and Colors and Forms, as it were, swathed in, and inextricably over-shrouded: yet it is sky-woven, and worthy of a God. Stands he not thereby in the centre of Immensities, in the conflux of Eternities? He feels; power has been given him to know, to believe; nay does not the spirit of Love, free in its celestial primeval brightness, even here, though but for moments, look through?


etc

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
28th July 09, 02:43 AM
sorry this thread is too gay

socratic
30th July 09, 12:02 AM
MJS - I'm not stylish, just functional and sometimes when I see high fashion or trends my friends/sisters wear I cannot even imagine myself pulling off such looks.

Is this because I don't have the right attitude? Does one have to don a certain persona to wear certain clothes?

No, you just have to care about how you are perceived.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
30th July 09, 12:04 AM
not even
i have a certain look in mind. think bob dylan late 60s. i branch out from there with other clothes i like but what people think of the final result doesn't bother me because i think i look awesome

socratic
30th July 09, 01:17 AM
not even
i have a certain look in mind. think bob dylan late 60s. i branch out from there with other clothes i like but what people think of the final result doesn't bother me because i think i look awesome
Have you been polishing up your nasal-tones? You're gonna have a long road ahead of you if you want to be like fair Dylan.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
30th July 09, 04:38 AM
you misunderstood me completely

socratic
30th July 09, 06:40 AM
you misunderstood me completelyNo, I was just making bad jokes. You don't want to be Bob, you just think he has a swagga worth jacking.

OZZ
1st August 09, 08:24 PM
I am a bit of an enigma when it comes to clothes..I grew up in orphanages and group homes, then foster homes - so , as you can imagine, my clothes were not always the greatest when I was kid. NOt the worst, either, but I surely wasn't wearing $100.00 pairs of Nike runners in grade 8 as a lot of my classmates were. One would think that after this I would not be fussy about clothes - but I am, slightly anyways. Not fussy insofar as I have to have all the latest name brands and insist on wearing shirts that scream TOMMY on them..I find such things ludicrous. Actually, when people weare stuff like this I think they really just make themselves look like a fool..
BUT - I do insist on buying high quality clothes THAT WILL LAST and that LOOK GOOD.If they happen to be Calvin Klein or Hugo Boss..oh well.
I am a good looking guy, I like to have clothes that compliment me.Not because I want people to notice the clothes, but because I want them to look at me and say -' that guy looks good'.Vain, you say..well, I never !!
Hugo Boss sportscoats, CK jeans, Ralph Lauren golf shirts, Expensive, comfortable, durable shoes..these are the things I like.
My wife thinks a $100.00 pair of jeans are 'expensive', but I am not so sure that's true. I mean, a cashmere Hugo boss sportsjacket I recently bought cost me $600.00 - now, that might seem expensive to some, but what If it were Versace ? Versace coats cost $1000.00..now THAT'S expensive.
So I guess it depends on perspective, truly rich people must laugh at the idea that I think my $75.00 Ralph Lauren golf shirt is 'expensive'.
I honestly believe that you get what you pay for when it comes to clothes..if you buy cheap you will get cheap clothese that fade, wear out quickly and don't feel as good when you put them on.
Do the clothes make the man? Well, no, a jerk in a Versace suit is still a jerk. BUT putting a little effort into looking good will at least get you recognized for doing so.I prefer to be one of the guys who women look at and think - here's a guy who looks good in what he wears, but isn't trying too hard to impress anyone.
Naturally cool..

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
1st August 09, 10:40 PM
You could do better than Hugo Boss or CK for the money.

OZZ
2nd August 09, 12:46 PM
You could do better than Hugo Boss or CK for the money.

Perhaps..but I am happy with the quality and the look..so I would just as soon stick with the brands I know and trust.

Spade: The Real Snake
2nd August 09, 02:16 PM
Ben Davis

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
2nd August 09, 02:23 PM
Ben Dover

Spade: The Real Snake
2nd August 09, 02:26 PM
Ben Sherman

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
2nd August 09, 02:34 PM
Ben, Big

JohnnyCache
2nd August 09, 02:40 PM
You could do better than Hugo Boss or CK for the money.

CK in particular is very "I own a few nice things I wear to interviews"

at least hugo boss indicates you might someday like to own a sailboat.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
2nd August 09, 02:45 PM
CK seems to have different lines, one for his storefronts and one that gets shipped out to malls and Macy's. The latter is complete ass and the former is just a bad deal for the money.

Hugo Boss isn't bad, but the quality and detailing don't stand up to other options in the price bracket. Pick up one of their suits and you're paying out the ass for a fused OTR that'll go on some crazy flash sale for 80% off.

OZZ
3rd August 09, 10:40 AM
Actually, the only thing I really buy from CK is jeans - and they fit great and seem to last a long time.

You want to know what I think looks ridiculous? Anything by Lacoste..they are so gay it is not even funny.

SFGOON
3rd August 09, 11:52 AM
Lily;

Your clothes and grooming in general will convey information about you - "make a statement" as it were, whether you intend them to or not. There is nothing wrong at all with influencing the snap assessments others make of you by means of your outfit. In fact, doing so is indicative of very highly developed social skills.

As MJS has pointed out on several occasions, much of the fashion industry is utter garbage. People can and should feel free to wear what they feel is best suited to them. Being flexible in what you wear, however, will allow you to don several personas, each of which you can then select for given occasions.

Myself as an example, I have a wide variety of clothing styles I wear. The way I behave in a power suit is different from my personality in jeans and a T-shirt, my (many) uniforms, or business casual.

When you say your clothes are "functional," that's a red flag which tells me you're not taking your appearance seriously enough. Not to say that one's appearance is the most important thing in life, but it's not something to give up on, either.

From the sound of things, you may need to re-invent yourself. Perhaps save up some money for a while if need be, peruse a few fashion magazines in the interim to find the kind of "look" you like, and then spend a day or two going out and very carefully buying it. Get everything tailored. Make a big deal out of it - it's important.

Then, see how you feel around your friends/sisters.

Cullion
3rd August 09, 01:46 PM
But we only ever see pictures of you wearing military fatigues wielding a pool cue or pumping a kettlebell. Are those the sort of pictures your mother has on her mantelpiece? What are you trying to tell us, Goon?

Harpy
3rd August 09, 05:54 PM
Goon - you are a man for all situations.

You're right, I honestly never cared about clothes. Ever. I still find shopping a trial and 'sales' are the worst. Money isn't the issue, its priority I guess and partly the fact that I love 'hiding' my true self. I've always believed people should judge you for who you are, not what you do, what you wear, how much you earn. I'm not going to embarrass anyone (okay, maybe MJS), I dress appropriately but I guess I'm subtle about it. Just because everyone wants to wear ruffles to the office this season does not mean I'm going to jump on board.


For the record, I dislike shopping for clothes, shoes, handbags, make up. I enjoy shopping for underwear and jewellery though.

Robot Jesus
13th August 09, 03:53 PM
is it sad that I describe my taste in clothing as dressing ventrue.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
13th August 09, 07:35 PM
You take fashion advice from video game vampires?
that sundae looks delicious lily

Robot Jesus
13th August 09, 10:38 PM
no, from pen and paper vampires. when I'm shopping for clothes my main thought is "would the leadership cast wear this?"

better then my previous "is this a Hawaiian shirt?" view point, but not by much.

Harpy
13th August 09, 11:11 PM
RJ - you dress however you like. Vampires always seem stylish and streamlined...post pix.

MJS - you're an ice cream man?

Robot Jesus
13th August 09, 11:25 PM
my kind does not photograph, we pretend red wine is blood and are douchbags.

Harpy
13th August 09, 11:48 PM
How stupid of me, should have known. So what exactly are you wearing right now?

Ajamil
13th August 09, 11:49 PM
is it sad that I describe my taste in clothing as dressing ventrue.

Not as sad as the number of us who knew exactly what you meant.

And Lily, not all vamps were stylin. Check out Nosferatu, Malkavians, and Brujah.

Harpy
13th August 09, 11:54 PM
Hey! I had to google 'ventrue' (I thought he misspelled 'venture').

Angel was cute and built.

Robot Jesus
14th August 09, 12:40 AM
hey, be fair; malks fit in in a rave.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th August 09, 03:19 AM
Not as sad as the number of us who knew exactly what you meant.

And Lily, not all vamps were stylin. Check out Nosferatu, Malkavians, and Brujah.

i had to look to up
told you i was cool

EuropIan
14th August 09, 01:34 PM
Not as sad as the number of us who knew exactly what you meant.

And Lily, not all vamps were stylin. Check out Nosferatu, Malkavians, and Brujah.
Tzimisce

Cullion
14th August 09, 03:48 PM
Tzimisce can be pretty.

Robot Jesus
14th August 09, 03:49 PM
their just freaky