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Ajamil
23rd July 09, 11:20 PM
I just thought of this as I was typing up the post on time. Krishna gives us three basic options in existence.

1) Follow His rules, live with Him.
2) Follow the most basic set of rules (by most basic rules I mean the impersonal, immutable laws of physics), set everything else up yourself, have a go alone.
3) Do nothing, don't play.

What else exactly would you want? I suppose you could say have a go alone under your own rules by yourself, but isn't that you asking to be God? I don't think it can work that way, I have no doubt Krishna could transfer one type of His energy to another, but then you would be God, you would not be you. Besides, as SP would say, "God is already God."

HappyOldGuy
23rd July 09, 11:28 PM
FEgSKLq5yDU

Ajamil
24th July 09, 01:44 AM
Am I missing the joke? Didn't Buddha say the result of his method was Nirvana, or the absence of sensation? I would put this under category three.

Edit: Went and looked up the lyrics. Ahh.

Steve
24th July 09, 03:02 AM
I suppose you could say have a go alone under your own rules by yourself, but isn't that you asking to be God?

I'm going to go ahead and post this for Cullion (since he found it, though I hate the interviewer. watch it all, but part three is where it gets back on topic):

-ak5Lr3qkW0

6mfbUhs2PVY

QA0gjyXG5O0

DAYoung
24th July 09, 03:06 AM
(2) looks good.

But can I still steal sacred Hindoo icons and symbols to use as jewellery, tattoos, and stuff?

(All the cool kids are doing it. And Egypt is SO 90s.)

Virus
24th July 09, 03:13 AM
What else exactly would you want?

Some evidence that he exists.

DAYoung
24th July 09, 03:23 AM
Hey, Virus m'boy, have you read Nietzsche's On Truth and Lies, in a Nonmoral Sense?

Virus
24th July 09, 04:26 AM
Sorry no. Tell me about it.

DAYoung
24th July 09, 04:41 AM
It's partly a reply to Kant, which probably wouldn't interest you much.

But in parts, he explores the value of truth and lies - not their correctness or precision, but their contriibution to human life.

(It was an early, Romantic work - he repudiated some of this.)

DAYoung
24th July 09, 04:43 AM
(You know, I can't remember the book that well. Maybe it's about flower arrangement in Khartoum. Forget I brought it up.)

Virus
24th July 09, 04:54 AM
Does it have any kung-fu battles or cyborgs in it?

DAYoung
24th July 09, 04:58 AM
Yes. It's all implied, of course. But definitely there.

Pretty much every 19th work of philosophy gestured at cyborgs.

Lebell
24th July 09, 05:47 AM
JUng was a gnostic.

suck on that.

jkdbuck76
24th July 09, 06:41 AM
And Freud sucked on cigars.

It's all about sucking, isn't it?

socratic
24th July 09, 07:14 AM
It's partly a reply to Kant, which probably wouldn't interest you much.

But in parts, he explores the value of truth and lies - not their correctness or precision, but their contriibution to human life.

(It was an early, Romantic work - he repudiated some of this.)

Kant's policy on lies other social morality was interesting, but fallicious. "What if everyone lied all the time? What would happen?" Lieing all the time and lieing sometimes aren't the same and shouldn't be treated the same morally.

socratic
24th July 09, 07:15 AM
What would I want?

To be the player, not the pawn, in life. I think given the option I would rather be God than me.

Oh... And a wife. Not to touch, but as a crutch.... To leeeeeaaaaan oooooooonnnn.... Peyote sings.....

Lebell
24th July 09, 08:19 AM
you guys still havent figured out the meaning of life?!

LOL!

hurry up!
its almost dying tiem!!!

EuropIan
24th July 09, 08:34 AM
What do you mean with #3?

socratic
24th July 09, 09:08 AM
you guys still havent figured out the meaning of life?!

LOL!

hurry up!
its almost dying tiem!!!
Really? God damnit, my watch must be running slow.

Uh... is the meaning of life to fuck a lot?

Lebell
24th July 09, 09:11 AM
Really? God damnit, my watch must be running slow.

Uh... is the meaning of life to fuck a lot?

the meaning of life is not found in action.
nor in inactivity.

socratic
24th July 09, 09:12 AM
the meaning of life is not found in action.
nor in inactivity.

Goddamnit, I thought I already killed one of you Buddha fuckers already.

Lebell
24th July 09, 09:15 AM
Goddamnit, I thought I already killed one of you Buddha fuckers already.

you are the buddha.

one light can reflect in many mirrors.

socratic
24th July 09, 09:19 AM
you are the buddha.

one light can reflect in many mirrors.
Wu.

Ajamil
24th July 09, 01:25 PM
you are the buddha.

one light can reflect in many mirrors.
Lebell, have you heard of the Paramatma concept? Would you say it's similar? Or did you want socratic to go kill himself?


What do you mean with #3?
It is possible to become completely detached from all things material without becoming attached to anything spiritual. I see this as the same result as what my understanding of Nirvana is.

BG 3.17 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/17/en): But for one who takes pleasure in the self, whose human life is one of self-realization, and who is satisfied in the self only, fully satiated — for him there is no duty.BG 3.18 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/18/en): A self-realized man has no purpose to fulfill in the discharge of his prescribed duties, nor has he any reason not to perform such work. Nor has he any need to depend on any other living being.
BG 3.19 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/19/en): Therefore, without being attached to the fruits of activities, one should act as a matter of duty, for by working without attachment one attains the Supreme.


In the Vedas, this is the result of Brahman realization, and the result is that one merges into the brahmajyoti, or "white/holy light." Vaishnavas believe that this - though incomparably longer than material existence - is still a temporary arrangement as the atman is by nature active. One from this position - if going back towards material energy - will "start" as Brahma. I think most forms of Buddhism see souls who have attained this position but returned in a much more favorable light - as it is (can't say if always) an altruistic motive that prompts it.

EuropIan
24th July 09, 02:08 PM
It is possible to become completely detached from all things material without becoming attached to anything spiritual. I see this as the same result as what my understanding of Nirvana is.

Ok.. I see... I guess I ascribe to that one then.

Well "wants" as a concept is pretty simple.. I mean, you are just a mind trapped in electro-chemical vehicle and we can only perceive and infinitesemal amount of what this universe contains. So what you want is pretty irrelevant in comparison with the rest of the universe.

But we are a race of these electro-chemical vehicles, capable of perceiving the universe in our brief . So we make up awesome stories as to explain why we are meant to do so.


So basically all this religion stuff is pretty irrelevant, in the grand scheme of things.

So yeah.. #3
/random

socratic
25th July 09, 02:28 AM
Lebell, have you heard of the Paramatma concept? Would you say it's similar? Or did you want socratic to go kill himself?

Probably the latter.


It is possible to become completely detached from all things material without becoming attached to anything spiritual. I see this as the same result as what my understanding of Nirvana is.

In the Vedas, this is the result of Brahman realization, and the result is that one merges into the brahmajyoti, or "white/holy light." Vaishnavas believe that this - though incomparably longer than material existence - is still a temporary arrangement as the atman is by nature active. One from this position - if going back towards material energy - will "start" as Brahma. I think most forms of Buddhism see souls who have attained this position but returned in a much more favorable light - as it is (can't say if always) an altruistic motive that prompts it.

One of my lecturers [one of like 5 people in Australia who are fluent in Sanskrit] read a passage from the Vedas to us when he was teaching Hinduism. The metaphor used by said Veda was "What is Nirvana? Where does the soul go when Nirvana is achieved? Well, where does the fire go when it is extinguished?" Apparently the sanskrit for 'nirvana' means 'to put out' or 'extinguish', if memory serves.

The Buddhist conception you're thinking of are the Bodhisattva. They achieve enlightenment and may achieve Nirvana at will but decide to stay behind to aid all of humanity in achieving moksha.

Lebell
25th July 09, 04:06 AM
Lebell, have you heard of the Paramatma concept? Would you say it's similar? Or did you want socratic to go kill himself?

I've read some things but im horrible with names, ill try to look up the text/concept online and get back at you about this.



It is possible to become completely detached from all things material without becoming attached to anything spiritual. I see this as the same result as what my understanding of Nirvana is.

BG 3.17 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/17/en): But for one who takes pleasure in the self, whose human life is one of self-realization, and who is satisfied in the self only, fully satiated — for him there is no duty.BG 3.18 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/18/en): A self-realized man has no purpose to fulfill in the discharge of his prescribed duties, nor has he any reason not to perform such work. Nor has he any need to depend on any other living being.
BG 3.19 (http://vedabase.net/bg/3/19/en): Therefore, without being attached to the fruits of activities, one should act as a matter of duty, for by working without attachment one attains the Supreme.


I would say it is something like just doing, just being, just play your part, do not pride yourself, do not expect rewards, just exist like you were meant to.

Jesus also said: lend money to those from whom you know cant pay you back.
he said lend, not give.

he also said:if someone (you dont like) presses you to walk up with him for a mile, walk two miles with him.

Buddhism:

buddha was walking through the lands and he came across this hermit, he was sitting in the hot sun meditating...the hermit noticed buddha and asked him: lord buddha, how many more reincarnations before i am enlightened?
buddha answered: 100 more.

the hermit lost heart and walked off.

then the buddha walked through a field and saw a man with a company of friends, dancing and singing.
the man recognised the buddha and asked: lord buddha, how more reincarnations before i am enlightened?
the buddha said: do you see that tree?
each leaf of that tree times 100!

the man said:so soon?!

socratic
25th July 09, 04:10 AM
I always liked: "The Buddha, having just become enlightened, was wandering through the forest one day when some men stumbled upon him. Humbled by his vibrant visage they in turn asked him questions. 'Are you a god, my lord?' 'No.' 'Are you the incarnation of a god, my lord?' 'No.' 'Are you a great sorceror then?' 'No.' Frustrated, they finally asked: 'Then what are you?' and the Buddha replied, 'I am Awake.'"

Lebell
25th July 09, 04:21 AM
i hope he didnt have morningwood though, cos that would be awkward!

lolol!

Ajamil
25th July 09, 01:15 PM
Nirvana is bothersome to translate mostly because of the "vana" part.


The Abhidharma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhidharma)-mahavibhāsa-sāstra, a Sarvastivādin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarvastivada) commentary, gives the complete context of the possible meanings from its Sanskrit roots:


Vāna, implying the path of rebirth, + nir, meaning leaving off' or "being away from the path of rebirth."



Vāna, meaning 'stench', + nir, meaning "freedom": "freedom from the stench of distressing karma."



Vāna, meaning "dense forests", + nir, meaning "to get rid of" = "to be permanently rid of the dense forest of the five aggregates" (panca skandha), or the "three roots of greed, hate and delusion" (raga, dvesa, avidya) or "three characteristics of existence" (impermanence, anitya; unsatisfactoriness, dukkha, soullessness, anātman).



Vāna, meaning "weaving", + nir, meaning "knot" = "freedom from the knot of the distressful thread of karma."


"Vana" could also be a spelling change rooted in another word - Sanskrit likes to change word spelling in relation to other words. I've heard "vanas" relate to lovliness, longing, desire and "vani" refer to wish or desire. In ISKCON, I had heard that its direct translation was "without sensation."


Vana as forest would make sense though, as in the Srimad Bhagavatam, there is an extended analogy given where material existence is likened to being lost in the woods. Thus Nirvana would be "out of the woods."

Lebell
26th July 09, 02:42 AM
did nobody get my morningwood joke?

look: buddha said: i am awake.

so i said:hope he didnt have morningwood.

you see, when a guy wakes up in the morning he usually has an erection.
morningwood is slang for that erection, not to be mistaken for the band morning wood who had a hit with the song to the nth degree.


i made a funny.

oh ffs you know what?
just nevermind.

EuropIan
26th July 09, 02:54 AM
"In heaven, they tell jokes. In hell, they explain them"

socratic
26th July 09, 07:23 AM
i hope he didnt have morningwood though, cos that would be awkward!

lolol!

Some cultures interpret the Buddha as the epitome of manliness. I remember one story suggesting his cock was so huge it could wrap around a building multiple times.

It's a good thing for the sanity of humanity that he didn't get morning wood.

Ajamil
26th July 09, 12:02 PM
We could've taken shelter under the bhodi tree...

socratic
26th July 09, 10:34 PM
We could've taken shelter under the bhodi tree...

It would have taken shelter in us.