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Lebell
5th July 09, 06:21 AM
I believe that certain statistics of the holocaust are tinkered with to fit a political purpose.

bob
5th July 09, 06:22 AM
More specific please.

Lebell
5th July 09, 06:25 AM
The amount of 6 million is unlikely, also the way the people alledgedly got killed and ' processed' don't ad up.

when i first started reading into it i was like: these people are fucking insane.
then when you sift through the info it starts to get suspicious.

the problem is loads of nazi holocaust deniers fuck things up with fantasy crap.
the holocaust did take place.

bob
5th July 09, 06:32 AM
Why don't you believe the 6 million? Doesn't seem too hard to me in the context of 60 million from the whole war. Stalin killed heaps more. Even the fucking pissant Khmer Rouge killed nearly 2 million.

Lebell
5th July 09, 06:49 AM
Why don't you believe the 6 million? Doesn't seem too hard to me in the context of 60 million from the whole war. Stalin killed heaps more. Even the fucking pissant Khmer Rouge killed nearly 2 million.

Well, a lot of things don't add up.
The main researcher who was in charge of making the official report of what exactly happened admitted to never actually been to Auschwitz for his conclusions and also some years ago there was a courtsession in Canada where a french historian defended the issue and was not convicted, there's footage of that trial on youtube and you can watch him rip the holocaust advocates another asshole.

then the things with the ovens etc.

point is: it was horrible and people got systematically persecuted, but afterwards a load of shit was added to fit an agenda.

perfect tactic, just by typing this it makes me uncomfortable because we are all trained to immediately go: zomg you fucking nazi!

Shawarma
5th July 09, 06:50 AM
So how many would you say got executed and burnt?

Cullion
5th July 09, 06:53 AM
I think millions of people were killed by the Nazis for being Jewish. The number 6 million is IIRC a rounding to fit with a Jewish prophesy about a 'burned offering' of 6 million people. The reality is that we know concentration camps existed and that people were exterminated en masse, but we'll probably never have exact figures. Whether it was 5 million or 7 million doesn't really change much for me.

Lebell
5th July 09, 06:54 AM
3 million is a more realistic number for jews.

are we also adding gipsies, political prisoners pow's resistance fighters and gays?

the image of concentrationcamps is always like this: barbed wire, a burning chimney and jews.

there were KL's where the majority wasnt jewish.

there were kl's that were working camps, there were some that were deathcamps.

(KL=Konzentrations Lager)

Lebell
5th July 09, 06:56 AM
european joke: when confronted with a racist joke: ' hey! thats not cool man, my grandfather died in a concentrationcamp!'

' oh shit,..sorry man, was he jewish?'

' no he was drunk and fell of the watchtower!'

amirite?

socratic
5th July 09, 07:25 AM
Why don't you believe the 6 million? Doesn't seem too hard to me in the context of 60 million from the whole war. Stalin killed heaps more. Even the fucking pissant Khmer Rouge killed nearly 2 million.

There was probably more than 6 million jewish in Poland alone [one guy actually tried to tell me there wasn't 6 million Jews in Europe. I laughed in his face long and hard...], let alone all the territories the SS got their evil fucking hands on. My suspicion is that they probably killed more; the Nazis were notoriously organised and left a lot of documentation, even if they tried to destroy it when they knew they were losing.

And DA... You'd be surprised and dissapointed at the beautiful people stuck with ugly crazy motherfuckers.

I have a bit of a bent for superstition. There's certain things that I won't say in case they happen and if I do I tend to touch wood. I know it's utter shit but I feel more comfortable having done it. As for God... I know too many arguments I can't beat for why God doesn't exist. If he does then he's like God in Johny Got His Gun:


There's a game out there, and the stakes are high. And the guy who runs it figures the averages all day long and all night long. Once in a while he lets you steal a pot. But if you stay in the game long enough, you've got to lose. And once you've lost there's no way back, no way at all.

Lebell
5th July 09, 07:30 AM
There was probably more than 6 million jewish in Poland alone [one guy actually tried to tell me there wasn't 6 million Jews in Europe. I laughed in his face long and hard...], let alone all the territories the SS got their evil fucking hands on.

There was this guy who lived not too far from my family.
He had a wooden hand, here's how he got it: he lived at a farm where the SS had a kommandopost.
One of the SSmen was looking at his daughter making comments and asking him if his daughter was engaged.

The dutch guy said no daughter of his would ever marry a german.
The ss man got angry and asked him if he rather had his daughter marry a englishman.

He put the man against his own garden wall, made him spread his arms and shot his hand to shit with a rifle.





My suspicion is that they probably killed more; the Nazis were notoriously organised and left a lot of documentation, even if they tried to destroy it when they knew they were losing.
:

your suspicion?
oh okay, it must be right then.

SFGOON
5th July 09, 07:33 AM
Whether it was 5 million or 7 million doesn't really change much for me.

So you're saying you don't care about two million Jewish people being killed? That's terribly callous.

socratic
5th July 09, 07:56 AM
There was this guy who lived not too far from my family.
He had a wooden hand, here's how he got it: he lived at a farm where the SS had a kommandopost.
One of the SSmen was looking at his daughter making comments and asking him if his daughter was engaged.

The dutch guy said no daughter of his would ever marry a german.
The ss man got angry and asked him if he rather had his daughter marry a englishman.

He put the man against his own garden wall, made him spread his arms and shot his hand to shit with a rifle.

That sucks, man.


your suspicion?
oh okay, it must be right then.

And yours is? Is it Cunt Sunday or something, Lebell?

Lebell
5th July 09, 08:18 AM
i dont do suspicions, i try to dig up facts.

is it Feelings sunday or something, Socratic?

Cos if it is i'll go easy on you this time.

I'm nice like that.

Cullion
5th July 09, 08:21 AM
So you're saying you don't care about two million Jewish people being killed? That's terribly callous.

I knew somebody would catch on eventually.

socratic
5th July 09, 08:22 AM
i dont do suspicions, i try to dig up facts.

Except you didn't post any, you said "I think some of the facts from the holocaust deniers adds up". Very clever, pass the tinfoil hat.

Lebell
5th July 09, 08:23 AM
the thing what bothered me was the ovens.

a guy explained: so you kill of thousands a week and then burn them, if so, why build a very limited amount of ovens?

why burning corpses in ovens that were killed with gas.
does that strike you as a smart idea?

Lebell
5th July 09, 08:25 AM
Except you didn't post any, you said "I think some of the facts from the holocaust deniers adds up". Very clever, pass the tinfoil hat.

no hang on, i also said there's footage on youtube on several trials and showcases, one is where the lead investigator admits he never set a foot in auschwitz, yet came up with very detailed stories in his final report.

its also a hidden fact that 6 million is just a guess.

people dont like to talk about it.

socratic
5th July 09, 08:29 AM
the thing what bothered me was the ovens.

a guy explained: so you kill of thousands a week and then burn them, if so, why build a very limited amount of ovens?

why burning corpses in ovens that were killed with gas.
does that strike you as a smart idea?

You ever try piling up thousands of corpses outside without anyone noticing? Disease, panic, lack of space, etc. The bodies would have to be disposed of somehow. Besides, they didn't gas everyone as you well know, there's plenty of photos of mass graves. The figure I heard was "six million in the holocaust" not "six million in Auschwitz" so I'm guessing they didn't gas all six million.

socratic
5th July 09, 08:35 AM
no hang on, i also said there's footage on youtube on several trials and showcases, one is where the lead investigator admits he never set a foot in auschwitz, yet came up with very detailed stories in his final report.

its also a hidden fact that 6 million is just a guess.

people dont like to talk about it.
Sorry, I misread you. I don't deny that 6 million isn't the exact number, but I don't think [I don't know, I wasn't there, history's all about piecing together what happened from the evidence at the time as you know] it's any less than that because the Nazis were systemic, very capable, had a lot of people around to kill, and didn't stop until they were forced to.

People don't like to talk about it because millions of people died horribly. I doubt anyone who got Gulag'd or had their family dissapeared by Stalin would like people saying "Well actually Stalin's regime never killed nobody"

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
5th July 09, 08:35 AM
Lebell, it's sort of suspicious how often you bring up Nazi apologetics.

socratic
5th July 09, 08:40 AM
Btw Dutch = surrender monkeys

Lebell
5th July 09, 08:44 AM
nah its just complicated, even if they burned the bodies traces would have been found in the soils.
yet there are no reports of a concetrated nitrate level.

Lebell
5th July 09, 08:45 AM
Btw Dutch = surrender monkeys

really?
what do you know about the may war of 1940?

Cullion
5th July 09, 08:50 AM
Can we have a seperate 'history of the holocaust' thread?

I'm really not the kind of person who's shies away from a subject because I'm scared of being accused of racism or anti-semitism, but this is the kind of subject that deserves it's own thread because of the voluminous different sources people can argue about and the likely strong personal feelings on the subject. My own personal feeling is that it's quite likely in all the chaos and destruction that there was some miscounting, but we're still talking about millions of people being murdered because of their ancestry. There are other related subjects, like the history of the Khazars which I think are interesting to discuss, but which have become swamped because of agendas from different sides of the debate.

I started this thread in CTC with the idea of it being a bit more light-hearted and broader so we could see who had some sympathy for ideas about UFOs, ghosts, alternative medicine etc..

I'll add some more:-

I have some inclination towards some types of complimentary medicine and traditionalist practices with regards to diet and exercise. I don't believe in chi in terms of mysterious energy fields or stuff like that, but I have found some of the weird (but certainly strenuous) exercises I've been taught in TCMA to produce fairly rapid improvements in different aspects of fitness and I've had
pleasing results when experimenting with paleo diets which whilst having some peer reviewed literature supporting them are still considered a bit leftfield in mainstream scientific terms.

I'm a great believer in preventative medicine being better than late intervention with drugs and surgery where possible and I'm quite suspicious about how many modern illnesses are being caused by harmful effects of highly processed foodstuffs and other aspects of modern lifestyles people take for granted and then try to use high-tech medical solutions to fix when the damage shouldn't have been done in the first place.

Best book I ever read on the subject from a scientific perspective was by Tamir Katz, who's a medical doctor from New York who AIUI was also a martial arts hobbyist.

Having read John Taylor Gatto's 'The Underground History of American Education', I'm also now very skeptical about certain educational methods in public schools, and not just the more recent 'experimental' ones people tend to identify with the modern left and political correctness.

socratic
5th July 09, 08:51 AM
really?
what do you know about the may war of 1940?

I know that your country surrendered to the Germans after Rottenberg and Middelburg :D

socratic
5th July 09, 08:52 AM
And the Henneicke Column? Dude, that's just fucked up. Not only did you surrender monkeys surrender but you sold out Jewish citizens for moolah?

Lebell
5th July 09, 09:15 AM
I know that your country surrendered to the Germans after Rottenberg and Middelburg :D

perhaps there's some more elaborate info on wiki but in short:

german highcommand expected to move through lolland in several hours, or days max.

the germans came in the early morning and flew over lolland trying to trick the army into thinking they were on their way to england, above sea they turned around and dropped fallschirmjaeger.

same time at the eastern border the panzerdivisions rolled in.

so the dutch go: zomg you bastards its on now!

the dutch airforce was small and outnumbered about 20 to 1 and they still kicked ass, shooting over 500 enemy planes, planes that couldnt be used in the later battle of britain.

then the dutch army units launched assaults on the german occupied airfields and recaptured them taking loads of german prisoners.

in the center near the Grebbeline there was ferocious fighting and the german panzerdivisions were completely pinned down.

there was also heavy fighting near Rhenen were a brigade fouth until the last man.

at moerdijk and rotterdam the germans got acquanted with the fighting skills of the royal marines, a german officer noted after the fighting that most killed germans had clean headshots.


so Hitler got nervous, he needed holland captured so he could drop into france from the north.

they started terrorbombing the civilians forcing the army to give up.
afterthe surrender the germans finally got through the grebbeline and the german commander asked the dutch commander what he did with the defensive structures, the dutch commander answered: these ARE our defensive structure.



so yeah, not as glorious as sitting on a island onthe other side of the world but still worth something in my book.

Lebell
5th July 09, 09:17 AM
And the Henneicke Column? Dude, that's just fucked up. Not only did you surrender monkeys surrender but you sold out Jewish citizens for moolah?

dude, those jews dont count, they got trasported by the notorious dutch railways, they should arrive in poland somewhere next month...

nihilist
5th July 09, 09:51 AM
its also a hidden fact that 6 million is just a guess.

people dont like to talk about it.

Can we have a seperate 'history of the holocaust' thread?

I started this thread in CTC with the idea of it being a bit more light-hearted


Can't you all see that if even one Jew died that it has a tragic impact on the financial and entertainment industry?

Shawarma
5th July 09, 09:56 AM
What if that Jew was Ben Stiller?

nihilist
5th July 09, 10:00 AM
Exactly my point.

Ajamil
5th July 09, 10:04 AM
Who would ever fake being cool and confident in a situation that is far more hazardous than they realize, then?

nihilist
5th July 09, 10:12 AM
This thread really isn't all that dangerous so relax.

Lebell
5th July 09, 11:01 AM
wait...ben stiller...is a jew?!

my god..they are everywhere!!!

edit: i meant: Gott im Himmel!!! zhey are everywherrrrr!!!

WarPhalange
5th July 09, 07:37 PM
I think the Jews were behind 9/11.

Cullion
5th July 09, 07:46 PM
Poop-loops, do you really think that? I actually wanted to find out about the leftfield things people here really thought might be true.

Well, if you're serious, let's do this.

WarPhalange
5th July 09, 08:02 PM
Cullion, that you can think I'm an absolute idiot on any issue, after having known my internet persona for so long, is just insulting.

Cullion
5th July 09, 08:03 PM
Cullion, that you can think I'm an absolute idiot on any issue, after having known my internet persona for so long, is just insulting.

I actually thought that was a rare flash of truly original thought bursting through the drab tv-addled conformity. You and I know that you have your suspicions.

WarPhalange
5th July 09, 08:21 PM
Any suspicions I have about 9/11 would point more towards the Riddeck crowd and not the Storm Front crowd.

Also, I believe there are people out there that are, surprise surprise, exploiting the Holocaust, such as the ADL (of course, they do their share of good work, but they have their agenda) and various pro-Israel groups.

Having however many is the accepted number of Jews killed over the span of a few years + all of the people that seem to not matter is awful*. But we wouldn't be where we are now if people hadn't really driven the issue home.

"Hey, dude, I don't think you should be moving into that house. Some Palestinian family is living there already."

"ANTI-SEMITE!!!"

"Oh shit, sorry."


*All those Chinese on the other side of the world that nobody ever seems to give a damn about. Where the fuck is there a Chinacaust memorial? Right, "Hitler wanted to eliminate the Jews! No-one else was on the list!"

No? Really? None of the other people, like romos, disabled, Gypsies, or Slavs were on that list? They were exterminated en masse, too. And that's completely ignoring the fact that more Chinese died than Jews. Oh, I guess they don't deserve a memorial or anything because it wasn't planned killing, but just the ruthless kind?

No, the fact is that the Holocaust has been exploited to hell. And don't think for a second that I'm claiming something like *all* Jews being in on it. No way. As per usual, it's a small portion of the population that are dicks and fucking over anyone they can. That's what gives Israel +5 to Persuasion and the "Unkown Number of Nuclear Bombs" feat.

Hell, even fundamentalist Christians are "in on it". According to their spell book, Israel has to be re-established so that all but some hundred thousand Jews get slaughtered, then everyone else who essentially isn't a fundamentalist Christian will get slaughtered, too. How fucking insane and selfish is that? "I need Israel so that you can die and I can go to Heaven. kthnxbye"

I'm basically equating this to John McCain's "I was tortured as a POW" answer for any question he was asked during the 2008 campaign. Did it happen? Yes. Was it bad? Hell yes. Is he exploiting it anyway? Yup.

Virus
5th July 09, 08:33 PM
That was a joke about Jews being behind 9/11 wasn't it? I'm going to have to look at you in a completely different light if you really believe this.

WarPhalange
5th July 09, 08:36 PM
Jesus Christ, yes, it was a joke. How hard is that to understand? I said that, completely deadpan (trust me, I had a blank expression on my face when I typed it up) and with no further explanation.

Cullion
5th July 09, 08:40 PM
Poops, it's ok man. This is the Internet. You can tell us what you really think.

I mean, you obviously didn't mean Jews in general.

You're thinking about that van full of Mossad agents who were found videoing the attack by NYPD and laughing, aren't you?

Virus
5th July 09, 08:41 PM
That's a relief. I thought you were putting the tard back in intardnet.

Cullion
5th July 09, 08:42 PM
Hitler was a vegetarian too, Virus.

WarPhalange
5th July 09, 08:49 PM
You're thinking about that van full of Mossad agents who were found videoing the attack by NYPD and laughing, aren't you?

I can't tell if you're joking now. :(

Dark Helmet
5th July 09, 09:21 PM
I will switch the topic from 'those fucking jewwes' to the topic at hand.

Which was .....?

Oh, yeah! The disparity of deaths from the total jewish population in Europe to total number of presumed deaths in the camps.

All I can say is that any and all disparities can probably be explain by the fact that so many jews were killed in the villages they lived, killed and buried in mass graves or died on route to the camps.

Lebell
6th July 09, 02:15 AM
a couple of things: what fuckstick made this thread's title and used me as the op?
is it you? you're a dick.

no2:

if we look at this like a claim on bullshido:

there's a motive to make the 6 million claim and there's an agenda.
there's also no good proof for that amount of people.

some say 3 million,6 million what does it matter?
i will tell you: if a state in this time uses the holocaust to validate the sneaky stuff they are doing to another people and actually incorporate other dead people such as gypsies commies and homo's to add on to their numbers then it definately should matter.

yes some jews got shot in their villages and some died on marches...newsflash americans: so did millions of other european non jews.

i swear its like steven spielberg is your only source on the holocaust.

there were bigger things going on then the holocaust, back then it was just a sidenote in a huge ideological war, the usa wasnt even that big of a player.

Dagon Akujin
6th July 09, 02:37 AM
^^^^^^^I find it very interesting that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is constantly labeled a "holocaust denier" when he really has been saying these same things. That:

-Not as many died, but many still died.
-Plenty of those who died were not Jewish.
-We need more scientific research into what actually happened.
-People who want to study how many people died should not be ostracized if their numbers are too low.
-The Holocaust is used politically for Israel, but should have nothing to do with how Palistinians are treated. It does not give Israel free reign to do whatever they want.

Lebell
6th July 09, 02:52 AM
^^^^^^^I find it very interesting that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is constantly labeled a "holocaust denier" when he really has been saying these same things. That:

-Not as many died, but many still died.
-Plenty of those who died were not Jewish.
-We need more scientific research into what actually happened.
-People who want to study how many people died should not be ostracized if their numbers are too low.
-The Holocaust is used politically for Israel, but should have nothing to do with how Palistinians are treated. It does not give Israel free reign to do whatever they want.

hang on, Ahmadinejad also did stupid crap like hlding that antisemitic cartoon exhibition and stated that israel should be wiped out.

i dont agree with that sort of nonsense.

in general: israel as a modern state would not have existed if it wasnt for the holocaust and especially the zionist jews are squeezing the holocaust for everything its worth.
there is a powerful lobby in washington and hollywood of jews, the movie sector in the usa is full with jewish producers etc.
more then half the movies in the world are made in hollywood.
the jewish lobby can make or break a senator.

in Holland we got the CDID a jewish organisitation that monitors the media and wires the info to the israeli government, if a dutch journalist publices a critical article in a dutch newspaper he will be called a nazi or a antisemite and has a good chance to be denied his visa for israel or even become a persona non grata.

still this is somehow okay, but if it would be saudi's instead of israeli's?

the current story about the holocaust as we are being taught is guarded carefully, but if you read the orignal reports you can see why it does not add up.

Cullion
6th July 09, 02:56 AM
I can't tell if you're joking now. :(

Mossad is no joke, believe me.

Lebell
6th July 09, 02:56 AM
oh i forgot to say this:

the irony is that the way the israeli's use the holocaust as a validation to create their suppresive regime may very well lead to their final holocaust.
Superpowers come and go, in time America will decline in power, demographically speaking the israeli's are being outbred by the palestinians and they are surrounded by enemies, with their current longterm strategy they are fucked.

If they keep yelling ' omg antisemitism, think about the holocaust !' while bombing palestinian civilians long enough public opinion will eventually turn like a leaf and people will be more like: im starting to understand the nazi's now, those people ARE evil!

this is getting more and more a real option the further in time from ww2 we move.

Truculent Sheep
6th July 09, 03:14 AM
^^^^^^^I find it very interesting that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is constantly labeled a "holocaust denier" when he really has been saying these same things. That:

-Not as many died, but many still died.
-Plenty of those who died were not Jewish.
-We need more scientific research into what actually happened.
-People who want to study how many people died should not be ostracized if their numbers are too low.
-The Holocaust is used politically for Israel, but should have nothing to do with how Palistinians are treated. It does not give Israel free reign to do whatever they want.


That grubby little shit is simply using the same tactics that nutters like the Intelligent Design mob use. Namely, not directly attacking their target (evolution/the Holocaust's death toll), but indirectly sowing doubt while attempting to appear reasonable. This is the important point: they are not trying to disprove things straight away but are instead trying to blur the lines for their own ends.

More to the point, and again, like the ID people, there's a big shovel-load of strawman here. (What do you expect? Adminejad is the same seedy-looking shit-bag who's just diddled an election.) No one with any degree of sanity would deny that many non-jews also died in the Holocaust and through the same machinery as was used to kill jews. The 'Holocaust As Excuse For Cosmic Israeli Evil' is also questionable: the Israeli/Palestine conflict is far too complex for a glib answer. Last time I checked, those who commemorate the Holocaust don't denigrate other slaughters either - quite the opposite. Again, rather than attack the veracity of the Holocaust, these people are trying to chip away at the foundations of its credibility.

Finally, the Holocaust has been researched to death, and as the case of David Irving proves, trying to hide your real agenda under the shroud of academia is a pretty standard (and discredited) tactic.

Lebell
6th July 09, 03:42 AM
The 'Holocaust As Excuse For Cosmic Israeli Evil' is also questionable: the Israeli/Palestine conflict is far too complex for a glib answer.

Orlly?
so besides dropping of a shitload of jews into palestine/israel/contested region, providing them with arms etc. there are other issues?
the contested region wasnt solely jewish for centuries already, a jewish state was given to the jewish people by the europeans/allies out of guild and justthe plain awkwardness of the post ww2 situation.

perhaps you have info i dont have?




Last time I checked, those who commemorate the Holocaust don't denigrate other slaughters either - quite the opposite. Again, rather than attack the veracity of the Holocaust, these people are trying to chip away at the foundations of its credibility.
you should check more often.
one of the main psychological/political reasons for jews to cling on israel and not wanting a 2 state solution is the: 'we fucking need our own country so we'll never have a holocaust again!'



Finally, the Holocaust has been researched to death, and as the case of David Irving proves, trying to hide your real agenda under the shroud of academia is a pretty standard (and discredited) tactic.

David Irving was a political process, he was fucked from day one.
A real douchebag is Ernst Zundel, Irving wasnt that evil.
The holocaust hasnt been researched to death, thats the whole goddamn problem.

bob
6th July 09, 05:04 AM
I'm certainly no expert on the holocaust but ten minutes on google tells me the following:

- the 6 million figure originally came from the Nazis. Subsequent Jewish researchers tended to come in the 5s somewhere.
- they can certainly categorically prove about 3 million dead
- it was never claimed that 6 million died in the camps. That's the total figure including starvation and disease and random shootings in the ghettos. The camps figure is about 3 million and many of those would have died simply from exposure and starvation rather than systematic killing.

The real crime is not the Jews being over-reported, it's the under-reporting of the Ukrainians and the like. The Nazis depopulated huge swathes of that country, burning villages to the ground and killing every man, woman and child. They lost around 10 million in the war but who ever hears about it?

Yeah, the Ukrainians and Poles really got it in the arse.

Lebell
6th July 09, 05:09 AM
yes as in percentages most studies agree that the ukrains and poles had at least the same amount as victims as jews.

but then again, how many polish movie producers do you know in hollywood?

bob
6th July 09, 05:12 AM
Well there was Roman Polanski but the Jews chased him out of town.

bob
6th July 09, 05:24 AM
I knew an old Ukrainian guy who survived a labour camp in the war. He told me stories about what the Krauts used to do to them.

One that stuck in my mind was when they found that somebody had stolen a cube of butter they made all the men take their shoes and socks off and stand out in the snow in the middle of winter. They all stood there at attention overnight until someone confessed (which didn't happen because they knew they'd get shot). By the end of the night a couple of his friends had died and a few more were severely frostbitten.

Truculent Sheep
6th July 09, 05:54 AM
Lebell, I'd love to answer to your reply. But then I realised two things: first of all, life is short and fleeting and should be put to good use. Also, you're a complete tit.

Lebell
6th July 09, 06:10 AM
I knew an old Ukrainian guy who survived a labour camp in the war. He told me stories about what the Krauts used to do to them.

One that stuck in my mind was when they found that somebody had stolen a cube of butter they made all the men take their shoes and socks off and stand out in the snow in the middle of winter. They all stood there at attention overnight until someone confessed (which didn't happen because they knew they'd get shot). By the end of the night a couple of his friends had died and a few more were severely frostbitten.

Okay, but did they find that bastard who stole the butter?!

Truculent Sheep
6th July 09, 07:06 AM
Lebell has just plus repped me for trolling. This is one of those 'Once In A Lifetime' moments that are beyond parody.

Lebell
6th July 09, 07:13 AM
i did not rep you for trolling.

Truculent Sheep
6th July 09, 07:44 AM
Yes you did - 'LOL! best trolljob so far mate! ;-)', as you put it.

Plasma
6th July 09, 07:52 AM
I believe that certain statistics of the holocaust are tinkered with to fit a political purpose.


NEVER show up to any Bullshido events because /I/ will be there and you don't want to meet me now.

Cullion
6th July 09, 07:57 AM
That's a great argument Plasma.

Lebell would ruin your shit btw.

Lebell
6th July 09, 08:04 AM
Yes you did - 'LOL! best trolljob so far mate! ;-)', as you put it.
yes...yours or.....MINE?

fucking hell...

*nods*

Plasma
6th July 09, 08:04 AM
That's a great argument Plasma.

I don't argue will that type of trash.

Lebell
6th July 09, 08:04 AM
NEVER show up to any Bullshido events because /I/ will be there and you don't want to meet me now.

dude...i dont care if you got a zit on your nose or something, im all about personality.
dont worry.

Cullion
6th July 09, 08:21 AM
I don't argue will that type of trash.

Did you actually read his earlier posts? He's not trying to say that millions of Jews weren't killed or that killing them was a good idea.

Plasma
6th July 09, 08:40 AM
Yes, he is claiming the Jewish People only use the Holocaust as a political chip and is "overstated" for political motives. That is just the more socially acceptable version of Holocaust denying. Ahmadinejad and Lebell would get along just fine.

Cullion
6th July 09, 08:41 AM
You're being an unreasonable zealot. I don't think he talked about 'the Jewish people', I think he was talking about 'some zionist politicians'. Unless you Jews are secretly like Voltron, in that you link together and form one big giant angry robot when somebody asks your political opinion, the two aren't the same thing.

Lebell
6th July 09, 08:49 AM
Yes, he is claiming the Jewish People only use the Holocaust as a political chip and is "overstated" for political motives. That is just the more socially acceptable version of Holocaust denying.

Let me reverse: do you honestly believe that there are no elements within the pro israel faction that ever used the holocaust as a wildcart to shut opponents up?
be warned i can bury you under examples...




Ahmadinejad and Lebell would get along just fine.

Actually, i can call him Moody.
He's so funny! you should see him when he loses with golf, he gets all riled up and starts screaming how he just could nuke Jerusalem, that he's that pissed off.
all i do is laugh harder and yell: BLUFF!
i probably should stop doing that.

TM
6th July 09, 11:58 AM
The amount of 6 million is unlikely, also the way the people alledgedly got killed and ' processed' don't ad up.

when i first started reading into it i was like: these people are fucking insane.
then when you sift through the info it starts to get suspicious.

the problem is loads of nazi holocaust deniers fuck things up with fantasy crap.
the holocaust did take place.
You are a tool and an idiot. I know people that liberated the camps. It's worse than you could imagine. How does it feel to be part of a bad SS science experiment?

Lebell
6th July 09, 12:01 PM
You are a tool and an idiot. I know people that liberated the camps. It's worse than you could imagine. How does it feel to be part of a bad SS science experiment?

okay..so because you know ' someone' who liberated a camp you know how things went down over 60 years ago in each and every camp, thus allowing you to make a judgement on the total deathtoll?

i get it.


im going to say this one more time:im not denying mass killings, im saying i believe certain numbers are manipulated to fit a political agenda.

Virus
6th July 09, 12:42 PM
Please provide positive evidence that researchers fudged the figures.

Lohff
6th July 09, 01:11 PM
im going to say this one more time:im not denying mass killings, im saying i believe certain numbers are manipulated to fit a political agenda.
Let's say 6 million is on the high side. What more political clout does someone gain by saying six, instead of four, million people were killed? Does that 2 million person difference change the horror of systematic genocide so much that an agenda is furthered by it?

Cullion
6th July 09, 02:36 PM
There's no political advantage in claiming 6 million instead of 3 million.

Lohff
6th July 09, 03:02 PM
There's no political advantage in claiming 6 million instead of 3 million.
I thought not.

Cullion
6th July 09, 03:07 PM
Unless the claim that it helps unify Jewish people under the Zionist banner by complying with a Torah prophecy is true.

Lohff
6th July 09, 03:15 PM
If true, yes. But op never stated this as the "political purpose" he so generally referred to.

Craigypooh
6th July 09, 03:19 PM
Can this thread die now?

WarPhalange
6th July 09, 08:53 PM
Let's say 6 million is on the high side. What more political clout does someone gain by saying six, instead of four, million people were killed? Does that 2 million person difference change the horror of systematic genocide so much that an agenda is furthered by it?
Humans have a hard time thinking about numbers bigger than about a thousand or so. We know that six million is more than four million, and we can even say it's 50% more, but we can't really visualize that very well, so it's not likely to have the same impact as say, a maniac executing four Jews instead of six. That difference is really obvious to us and we can fully understand it.

Virus
6th July 09, 09:32 PM
Michael Shermer says that the figure of six million was arrived at by several independent investigators so they would all have to be in on the scam if the figures were deliberately fudged.

WarPhalange
6th July 09, 10:28 PM
Duh, the Jews are involved. Why wouldn't there be a giant conspiracy behind it?

Virus
6th July 09, 11:20 PM
eUB4j0n2UDU

Dagon Akujin
6th July 09, 11:42 PM
^^^^^^^^That should be required viewing for all Amerikkkans.


Pushups smushups. :/

Lebell
7th July 09, 04:20 AM
If true, yes. But op never stated this as the "political purpose" he so generally referred to.
i originally posted in the thread ' Odd things you believe in' then some amazing mod with a huge penis made it into a thread of its own and this bleedingheart fest started.

not my fault you are influenced by zionistic media.

zomg they're everywhere..not sociocide too!!!

how much did they pay you Steve? HOW MUCH?!

EuropIan
7th July 09, 04:55 AM
i originally posted in the thread ' Odd things you believe in' then some idiot mod made it into a thread of its own and this bleedingheart fest started.

not my fault you are influenced by zionistic media.

zomg they're everywhere..not sociocide too!!!

how much did they pay you Steve? HOW MUCH?!
Actually the main response to your statement (Less jews might actually have died during the holocaust than estimated) has been: "So?"

Lebell
7th July 09, 05:19 AM
actually i got quite some interesting feedback in private... ;-)

Lohff
7th July 09, 07:43 AM
actually i got quite some interesting feedback in private... ;-)
Hookers?

Lebell
7th July 09, 07:58 AM
i wish...

Artful Dentures
7th July 09, 09:14 AM
One issue with this argument that has not been addressed is the fact that the Soviet Union took over most of Eastern Europe and destroyed lots of records.

The exact number of Jews, Ukrainians and Poles can only be guessed at now. The amount of Jews killed as a result of the Nazis might be lower and it might higher than six million.

The Nazis plan was to kill all the Jews and Gypsies and make the Poles a slave race.

Shawarma
7th July 09, 09:16 AM
Which is why it's heelarious that there are so many neo-nazis in Eastern Europe today.

Artful Dentures
7th July 09, 09:18 AM
The other things is that every event in history is used politically by someone for something. It's what pretty much drives history.

Lebell
10th July 09, 05:22 AM
The other things is that every event in history is used politically by someone for something. It's what pretty much drives history.

conclusion: Lebell was right, some people screamed ' ZOMG ANTISEMITISM' it went around in some circles and we ended where we started: Lebell was right.
thank you for reading, mods:you can close the thread.

kthxxbai

Lebell
10th July 09, 05:23 AM
i originally posted in the thread ' Odd things you believe in' then some amazing mod with a huge penis made it into a thread of its own and this bleedingheart fest started.

not my fault you are influenced by zionistic media.

zomg they're everywhere..not sociocide too!!!

how much did they pay you Steve? HOW MUCH?!

Oh, and Steve does not have a huge penis, instead he complained about mine and refused to be bottomboy.

There's the ugly truth people.

socratic
10th July 09, 06:04 AM
Well there was Roman Polanski but the Jews chased him out of town.

He did kinda fuck a child.

I think people on sociocide really need to stop with the 'I'm not racist but Israelis are all unreasonable' line. There's probably about 5 guys who've pulled it on this thread and/or others. You realise what it makes you sound like... Right?

Cullion, maybe you should be less surprised when your favourite butt-boy pushes someone's buttons over something really bad even though he's so clever and they get pissed off. You should be smart enough to realise how utter shit 'lololol teh jooz conflated the numbers for political purposes' is.

And Lebell, really, the thread title is quite accurate. You did say it wasn't as bad as people thought.

socratic
10th July 09, 06:06 AM
Ugh, now I feel kinda dirty posting in this thread. So... much... bullshit...

Lebell
10th July 09, 07:48 AM
He did kinda fuck a child.

I think people on sociocide really need to stop with the 'I'm not racist but Israelis are all unreasonable' line. There's probably about 5 guys who've pulled it on this thread and/or others. You realise what it makes you sound like... Right?

Cullion, maybe you should be less surprised when your favourite butt-boy pushes someone's buttons over something really bad even though he's so clever and they get pissed off. You should be smart enough to realise how utter shit 'lololol teh jooz conflated the numbers for political purposes' is.

And Lebell, really, the thread title is quite accurate. You did say it wasn't as bad as people thought.

no i said the numbers are tampered with to suit political goals.

even if 10 people had to go to that sadistic ordeal that would be 10 too many.

Artful Dentures
10th July 09, 08:59 AM
conclusion: Lebell was right, some people screamed ' ZOMG ANTISEMITISM' it went around in some circles and we ended where we started: Lebell was right.
thank you for reading, mods:you can close the thread.

kthxxbai


No even when you're right you're wrong.

Also understand a lot of people use the holocaust both ways, the "Numbers are Inflated" comment is often used by people with an anti-semitic agenda, along the lines of

"See the Jooos lie and distort things for their own advantage the shiffty buggers can't be trusted lets get em!!"

So even though you're not anit-semitic you're inadvertently parroting a lot of what gets said by people with anti-Semitic agendas.

Lebell
10th July 09, 09:46 AM
thats one way of looking at it.
you cant avoid these things.
some subjects are hijacked by fanatics, that doesnt mean you cant discuss the subjects.

MaverickZ
10th July 09, 10:21 AM
oh i forgot to say this:

the irony is that the way the israeli's use the holocaust as a validation to create their suppresive regime may very well lead to their final holocaust.
Just out of curiousity, when you say "the israeli's" here, do you mean the jewish and arab people living in Israel, or just the jews?

Lebell
10th July 09, 10:59 AM
Just out of curiousity, when you say "the israeli's" here, do you mean the jewish and arab people living in Israel, or just the jews?

good question: i mean the jewish israeli nationals in the context of the israeli palestinian conflict.

someone critises israeli policy and its like: at least we got a home now after the whole holocaust!

you might want to check out the thread called ' israel makesa nice gesture' in ground zero.

MaverickZ
10th July 09, 11:04 AM
It is, in my opinion, a little disingenuous to look at the holocaust on its own. It's my belief that to understand the significance of the holocaust, at least to the Jews, you have to look at it in a historical context of Jewish persecution.

Truculent Sheep
10th July 09, 11:23 AM
What's driving Lebell and this thread only becomes clear if you go on a boat tour in Amsterdam. It will show you the sites, give you some nice things to photograph, like the clock called Crazy Jack (so-called apparently because it keeps such "crazy time"), or the place the wives of seafarers would gather at to discover whether their husbands had returned safely home or had come to a sticky end. The usual tourist-friendly stuff.

But then the tour guide will announce that the boat is going through what used to be the Jewish quarter. And there are no jews there any more. Most of them got on trains during World War Two and very few came back. Lebell will probably quibble the numbers who did return or were there to start with. But he'll have problems explaining why there isn't a Jewish quarter any more, or where the vast majority of Dutch Jews went. You see, the Netherlands, like many countries occupied by the Nazis tend to have very selective memories about what happened during the occupation. This leads to a dysfunctional relationship with the past, which can manifest itself in denial, distortion or even out-and-out perversity.

The tour guide never went into details as to what happened to the Jewish quarter either. The boat just moved on to the next canal and the next interesting sight. It was like the past was only being allowed out when it could behave and then was put back in its box when it got a bit too ugly. But it was hard not feel that the past wasn't exactly on the side of the Dutch in one form or another, at least when it came to small matters like guilt and culpability.

Lebell
10th July 09, 11:49 AM
But then the tour guide will announce that the boat is going through what used to be the Jewish quarter. And there are no jews there any more. Most of them got on trains during World War Two and very few came back. Lebell will probably quibble the numbers who did return or were there to start with. But he'll have problems explaining why there isn't a Jewish quarter any more, or where the vast majority of Dutch Jews went. You see, the Netherlands, like many countries occupied by the Nazis tend to have very selective memories about what happened during the occupation. This leads to a dysfunctional relationship with the past, which can manifest itself in denial, distortion or even out-and-out perversity.

The tour guide never went into details as to what happened to the Jewish quarter either. The boat just moved on to the next canal and the next interesting sight. It was like the past was only being allowed out when it could behave and then was put back in its box when it got a bit too ugly. But it was hard not feel that the past wasn't exactly on the side of the Dutch in one form or another, at least when it came to small matters like guilt and culpability.

What are you babbeling about?
The jews in Amsterdam got registered by dutch civil servants who actually made overhours to mark their houses on the citymap.
Then the germans put them on dutch trains, the NS actually sended them bills listing each piece (a jewish person) and the price for transport.
You can look it up everywhere.

Some Jews got caught, other jews got refuge with resistance people etc.
After the war a lot of the jews wether in hiding or survivers of a camp went to live in israel.

so thats why there's no jewish quarters anymore.

Lebell
10th July 09, 11:52 AM
It is, in my opinion, a little disingenuous to look at the holocaust on its own. It's my belief that to understand the significance of the holocaust, at least to the Jews, you have to look at it in a historical context of Jewish persecution.

again a good point, but im convinced that dragging the holocaust into a discussion when its about destroying homes and killing kids of arabs will only get you so far.

eventually people grow tired of it.

i would say by using the holocaust you devaluate the significance the most.

Lohff
10th July 09, 12:02 PM
again a good point, but im convinced that dragging the holocaust into a discussion when its about destroying homes and killing kids of arabs will only get you so far.
Agreed, but I'm still not sure how mucking the numbers plays any significance outside the point Cullion brought up about prophecy.

Lebell
10th July 09, 12:03 PM
the more people the more dramatic.

MaverickZ
10th July 09, 12:03 PM
again a good point, but im convinced that dragging the holocaust into a discussion when its about destroying homes and killing kids of arabs will only get you so far.

eventually people grow tired of it.

i would say by using the holocaust you devaluate the significance the most.
I'm not sure how the discussion about destroying homes and killing kids of arabs is related to the discussion of the holocaust at hand, and I mean that in the very literal sense of the words.

If you want to talk about non sequitur arguments, well, that's a question of logic. So it depends on context whether the holocaust is related or not.

What exactly is your argument again?

Lebell
10th July 09, 12:35 PM
I'm not sure how the discussion about destroying homes and killing kids of arabs is related to the discussion of the holocaust at hand, and I mean that in the very literal sense of the words.

If you want to talk about non sequitur arguments, well, that's a question of logic. So it depends on context whether the holocaust is related or not.

What exactly is your argument again?

Israel: Bombing civilians, treating palestinians as second class citizens, raising big walls etc etc

UN: thats not a good policy.

Israel: OH MY GOD HOW DARE YOU,AFTER THE HOLOCAUST AND ALL, THIS IS NO CRITISISM THIS IS ANTISEMETIC!!! AAARGH!!!

UN:......okay...*slowly backs away*

MaverickZ
10th July 09, 12:39 PM
Israel: Bombing civilians, treating palestinians as second class citizens, raising big walls etc etc

UN: thats not a good policy.

Israel: OH MY GOD HOW DARE YOU,AFTER THE HOLOCAUST AND ALL, THIS IS NO CRITISISM THIS IS ANTISEMETIC!!! AAARGH!!!

UN:......okay...*slowly backs away*
I see where this is going. Good luck in your discussions.

Lebell
10th July 09, 12:46 PM
oh thats easy.

'LOL you fail but im not explaining you why, because you know, smart people wouldnt have to ask..'

Lohff
10th July 09, 12:47 PM
the more people the more dramatic.
Most have agreed that the difference between, say 4-6 million, doesn't really compute with most people. So what capital does it truly gain them? I don't see any, so perhaps you could educate me.

You seem to be bouncing back and forth between an argument of, "They fudged the numbers for political capital," and "They use the holocaust for political capital." The latter, I would certainly agree with, but you have done absolutely nothing to prove the former. Up until this point in the thread, only Cullion has put forth a single point that could be used to support your theory that the numbers being fudged creates political leverage. And sorry, 6 million is more dramatic than 4 million is a weak proposition. The systematic killing of a group of people based on their religion creates plenty of drama on its own.

Lebell
10th July 09, 12:51 PM
lohf, if that were true why didnt anyone do something about ruanda? birma? tibet?
etc.

its not like that, people get persecuted systematically in several parts of the world as we speak, but they dont sell the problem as efficiently.

Lebell
10th July 09, 12:52 PM
oh and something else: 6 million is a guess and people who subscribe to the current version make the 6 million claim.
i say, its not proven there were 6 million.

Lohff
10th July 09, 12:56 PM
lohf, if that were true why didnt anyone do something about ruanda? birma? tibet?
etc.

its not like that, people get persecuted systematically in several parts of the world as we speak, but they dont sell the problem as efficiently.
Or, maybe it is because Israel's problems are with the palestinians and tibet's are with FUCKING CHINA. It has nothing to do with how they are selling it, and more to do with the relative strength of the individuals they are warring with. Messing with Israeli and Palestinian affairs furthers american interests in the middle east. America doesn't want any part of China, thus, places like Tibet and Darfur get fuck all.

Lebell
10th July 09, 01:03 PM
yes, how is this making/helping your point?
you just agreed that systematically murdering people has little to do with justice and truth.

Lohff
10th July 09, 01:05 PM
And you just seemed to intimate that maybe numbers have nothing to do with it either. So it seems both of our points are fucked, huh?

Cullion
10th July 09, 01:06 PM
Up until this point in the thread, only Cullion has put forth a single point that could be used to support your theory that the numbers being fudged creates political leverage.

I ought to point out that I'm not very confident about that theory. It's hearsay.

Artful Dentures
10th July 09, 01:25 PM
oh and something else: 6 million is a guess and people who subscribe to the current version make the 6 million claim.
i say, its not proven there were 6 million.


There's more evidence, like Nazi records and population records to support it than there are records to disagree.

I always tell people about a million people die a year in Africa as a result of war.

Six million Jews in Europe is not that hard to imagine.

The only real legitimate claim is that non Jews got tallied in the official German numbers.

And as far as the Holocaust and Israel goes if it was 2 million and 20 million killed it wouldn't make a difference to the arguments put forward. either way.

So arguing numbers becomes suspect as I mentioned in my original point.

Cullion
10th July 09, 05:59 PM
The dividing lines this debate stirs up are a delibarate distraction.

Let's all be fucking straight with each other.

We're all under a conserted and cynical smash and grab raid.

I refuse to argue with a Jewish man, or an ethnic Asian or African about who's turn it is to pay for whose busted knee. I just won't fucking fall for it.

We ordinary people are getting looted by slick and arrogant crooks, and we all know it.

Sun Wukong
10th July 09, 06:05 PM
The exact numbers don't matter to me at all. The fact that innocent men, women and children were exterminated in mass calculated numbers just for being a jew is a terrible, shameful thing.

The Jewish people are entitled to mourn. The entire event was an act of unfathomable evil. To be confronted with it, in person, must have been a nightmare; even as a soldier liberating the camp or a statistician calculating the toll in human life. How do you accurately count such a thing and have the numbers be immutably sound?

Even if it were correct, it would still be virtually impossible to completely confirm due to the massive numbers and the unfathomably complicated matter of putting together evidence for the largest crime scene in human history.

Kein Haar
10th July 09, 10:45 PM
If people evolved from apes, why does Sarah Silverman still exist???

Lebell
11th July 09, 04:55 AM
some people just dont know when to stop.

my point has been made pages ago, i suggest you take a good read, let it sink into your brain, and realise i was right all along.

im not saying that much differently from you.

socratic
11th July 09, 06:24 AM
What are you babbeling about?
The jews in Amsterdam got registered by dutch civil servants who actually made overhours to mark their houses on the citymap.
Then the germans put them on dutch trains, the NS actually sended them bills listing each piece (a jewish person) and the price for transport.
You can look it up everywhere.

Some Jews got caught, other jews got refuge with resistance people etc.
After the war a lot of the jews wether in hiding or survivers of a camp went to live in israel.

so thats why there's no jewish quarters anymore.

That and their fellow Dutch literally sold them to the Nazis. Everyone look up 'The Heinecke Column'.


I ought to point out that I'm not very confident about that theory. It's hearsay.

That sounds like something The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or some modern equivalent would suggest. Like, 'all the Jews got together in an international conspiracy and tricked everyone at once', because that's the only way hoodwinking everyone would probably work, and of course that's entirely unfeasible at best.


some people just dont know when to stop.

my point has been made pages ago, i suggest you take a good read, let it sink into your brain, and realise i was right all along.

im not saying that much differently from you.

You really like this 'no u I alredy wun' thing don't you?

Lebell
11th July 09, 06:29 AM
no i dont like it, but people like you need it.

' look up the heineken column you guiz!!!'

seriously, wtf?

do i go around assuming to understand australia because i can read something on the internet and ive got family there?

that would be stupid.

the chain of events in europe back then and to this day are very complicated, it isnt as black and white as many people would like to make it seem.

Kein Haar
11th July 09, 09:12 AM
Yes it is.

Western Europe is a small, simple, and transparent place.

They have have ceded their authority and responsibility to Britain and the U.S. We have the answers to all the tests.

Sorry.

It's what you get for being complicit in barbarian-era atrocities ...but this time with mechanization.

For shame, you guys. For shame.

Tea....meet bag.

socratic
11th July 09, 07:28 PM
no i dont like it, but people like you need it.

' look up the heineken column you guiz!!!'

seriously, wtf?

do i go around assuming to understand australia because i can read something on the internet and ive got family there?

that would be stupid.

the chain of events in europe back then and to this day are very complicated, it isnt as black and white as many people would like to make it seem.

I can't help it if your country bent over for the Nazis like the bitches you are. Boo hoo, they bombed two of our cities like really badly... They bombed Britain on the daily but you didn't see the British waving the surrender flag. We bombed Japan into oblivion before the a-bombs and they still didn't surrender. And I wonder how many other European countries formed mercenary groups to hunt down and sell their own people like Holland did?

Amazingly enough, when it comes to history, you can in fact look it up. Freaky, I know, they actually wrote this shit down and using this thing called the interwebs [which is really a series of tubes] you can look at things people write down. Modern technology these days.

PS: Heineken sucks, thanks for nothing, Dutchbags.

AAAhmed46
12th July 09, 03:16 AM
I think it was WORSE then it actually was, it was an attempt at extermination, i don't think there are as many survivors as people think there are...or claim to be.

Lebell
12th July 09, 05:27 AM
I can't help it if your country bent over for the Nazis like the bitches you are. Boo hoo, they bombed two of our cities like really badly... They bombed Britain on the daily but you didn't see the British waving the surrender flag. We bombed Japan into oblivion before the a-bombs and they still didn't surrender. And I wonder how many other European countries formed mercenary groups to hunt down and sell their own people like Holland did?

Amazingly enough, when it comes to history, you can in fact look it up. Freaky, I know, they actually wrote this shit down and using this thing called the interwebs [which is really a series of tubes] you can look at things people write down. Modern technology these days.


seriously...where do you get your info from?!
the psychoticobserver.net?!

they didnt bomb britain on the daily, britain was way bigger then lolland and an island.
the bombing of rotterdam made the general command realise we couldnt hold them off forever, so instead of sacrificig the civilian population to a lost cause (what the azis would do in 45) they chose the humane way and surrendered.

Japan bombed into oblivion with a-bombs?
uhm.....read more.
they didnt surrender after those bombings?
read more.

dutch formed mercenarygroups to hunt their own?
gtfo.
there was a dutch naziparty before the war started, those guys formed the Landwacht, and supplied the men for the dutch waffen ss.
they were not mercenaries but volunteers.

we had sonderkommandos here, whenever the resistance shot an official they would visit the homes of suspects (probable resistance fighters according to the sicherheits dienst SD) ring the doorbell, the guy opened up the door and they would shoot him in the face just like that ad take off.

last week it turned out that an 80 something dutch ss man will still get persecuted for it.
he fled lolland after the war and lived unhindered in germany since the 50ies.



PS: Heineken sucks, thanks for nothing, Dutchbags.

I always said Heineken is crap.

Lebell
12th July 09, 05:30 AM
I think it was WORSE then it actually was, it was an attempt at extermination, i don't think there are as many survivors as people think there are...or claim to be.

so they tampered with the figures to fit a political goal.
making it worse or making it less worse:my original statement is true.

its just telling how many automatically assume that if you mention it you are probably antijewish or a clost nazi.

Ajamil
12th July 09, 08:53 AM
last week it turned out that an 80 something dutch ss man will still get persecuted for it.
he fled lolland after the war and lived unhindered in germany since the 50ies.

I read about him. There was some concern that the extradition flight would be fatal. Keep us updated.

Lebell
12th July 09, 09:05 AM
I read about him. There was some concern that the extradition flight would be fatal. Keep us updated.

no you're mixing him up with Dejanjuk. (sp?)
he lived in canada and was flown over for trial.

the dutch man already lived in germany since the 50ies.
there still a dozen of former dutch ssmen alive in germany with a full pension.

patfromlogan
12th July 09, 03:49 PM
I worked for a guy who was a fighter from Holland. He spent time in a camp. He said that there was one Jew in the building and the guards would never feed him. They'd all hold food in their mouths until the guards left and then spit in into his mouth. Boss said that you'd never seen such gratitude in a man's eyes. Then when he didn't starve to death the guards figured out something was up so one guard would wait around after meals and after a week or so the Jew died.

My Jewish friend lost 46 members of her Polish family. That side of the family, the ones who didn't grow up in Queens, all perished.

I was renting to a Polish woman and we were trying to prorate the amount for a partial month and her other Polish friend said that we were acting like Jews, worried about a small amount of money. I asked, "How would you know how Jews act, since you Poles helped the Nazis kill them all?"

WarPhalange
12th July 09, 04:11 PM
I asked, "How would you know how Jews act, since you Poles helped the Nazis kill them all?"
Not true. Hell, Poland got attacked first in WW2, why would they give up Jews after the country got shat all over? Certainly nothing to gain from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland#World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%931945 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_%281939%E2%80%931945)) (read the very last paragraph)

What happened is after WW2 when the USSR came into existence that Poland became pretty anti-semitic. Poland had a lot of other people coming in, plus actual Poles being culled for the past years, meant they wanted to "stick together" and for some reason the Jews took the brunt of that mind-set. Then politics played off of the fear of the populace, as usual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_(1945%E2%80%931989)#National_Com munism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_%281945%E2%80%931989%29#National _Communism) (6th paragraph, the one that ends with 20k Jews lost their jobs)
http://polish-baltic-history.suite101.com/article.cfm/jews_in_poland_after_wwii

So good job matching their ignorance with some of your own.

Poland did some bad things after WW2, but saying they helped kill the Jews is just fucking retarded.

Cullion
12th July 09, 05:40 PM
Not true. Hell, Poland got attacked first in WW2, why would they give up Jews after the country got shat all over? Certainly nothing to gain from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland#World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%931945 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_%281939%E2%80%931945)) (read the very last paragraph)

What happened is after WW2 when the USSR came into existence that Poland became pretty anti-semitic. Poland had a lot of other people coming in, plus actual Poles being culled for the past years, meant they wanted to "stick together" and for some reason the Jews took the brunt of that mind-set. Then politics played off of the fear of the populace, as usual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_(1945%E2%80%931989)#National_Com munism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_%281945%E2%80%931989%29#National _Communism) (6th paragraph, the one that ends with 20k Jews lost their jobs)
http://polish-baltic-history.suite101.com/article.cfm/jews_in_poland_after_wwii

So good job matching their ignorance with some of your own.

Poland did some bad things after WW2, but saying they helped kill the Jews is just fucking retarded.

Poops and I don't see eye to eye on many political things. I will support him here.

The small english village I grew up in was 2 miles from an RAF fighter base that had been built just before WWII.

In the centre of our village, we had a small cenotaph covered with poppy wreaths (most of the year round) and enscribed with names of soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen who had given their lives under British command.

There was a special section for volunteer poles who just would not fucking give up fighting the nazis.

Poles can be obnoxious, but they doesn't afraid of anything, srsly.

socratic
12th July 09, 10:36 PM
Japan bombed into oblivion with a-bombs?
uhm.....read more.
they didnt surrender after those bombings?
read more.

You need to improve your reading comprehension, bromide. I said they bombed Japan into oblivion [as a figure of speech, wow!] before the A-bombs. And it's true. Some 80% of Tokyo was firebombed to the ground before the A-bombs were dropped. Japan was catastrophically damaged by Allied bombing [yay, massive civilian casualties!] well before atomic weapons were employed, it's just the Imperial Japanese refused to surrender despite getting the shit kicked out of them. It took two nuclear weapons to coax a surrender out of them. Check it out, there's a table on the right with % of Japanese cities damaged by bombing campaigns prior to the A-bombing. Note how few of them have 80% or more of their city remaining. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II#Japanese_bom bing


dutch formed mercenarygroups to hunt their own?
gtfo.
there was a dutch naziparty before the war started, those guys formed the Landwacht, and supplied the men for the dutch waffen ss.
they were not mercenaries but volunteers.

How do you explain the Heinecke column?


I always said Heineken is crap.

At least we can agree on something.

socratic
12th July 09, 10:38 PM
I remember hearing (I forget where) that following the expansion of the USSR into Europe, Jewish peoples continued to 'mysteriously dissappear' in the 'liberated' territories. Those Ruskis really hated Jews; there was an entire state dedicated to being a dumping ground for Jewish peoples.

Toby Christensen
13th July 09, 12:06 AM
Have I already mentioned it isn't just Jews?

Blacks, gypsies and disabled folk? And homosexuals?

And that some people SUPPORT Hitler still and have the nerve to walk in Australia wearing their Teutonic crap whilst blissfully ignoring who fucking helped Hirohito?

Lebell
13th July 09, 04:14 AM
well at least this thread made it clear im way more intelligent then most posters on here.

Ajamil
13th July 09, 10:47 AM
ry4iwzS4Na0

WarPhalange
13th July 09, 11:13 AM
Poles can be obnoxious, but they doesn't afraid of anything, srsly.

They rushed tanks with cavalry. Cavalry.

MaverickZ
13th July 09, 11:17 AM
What other things weren't so bad?
British food. I was actually very happy with the fish and chips. Everything else though, terrible.

Lohff
13th July 09, 01:15 PM
well at least this thread made it clear im way more intelligent then most posters on here.Pull your thumb out of your ass, junior. You proved nothing.

Truculent Sheep
13th July 09, 03:14 PM
What other things weren't so bad?
British food. I was actually very happy with the fish and chips. Everything else though, terrible.

You didn't go to the right places, methinks.

Lebell
13th July 09, 03:28 PM
Pull your thumb out of your ass, junior. You proved nothing.

Thank you for proving my point.


btw my people were the first to be put in concentration camps by the british.
should i sue the UK?

Lohff
13th July 09, 03:58 PM
Thank you for proving my point.
Nice attempt at poisoning the well. Logic fail.

bob
13th July 09, 04:03 PM
btw my people were the first to be put in concentration camps by the british.
should i sue the UK?

For not following through on it? Sure, why not.

Cullion
13th July 09, 04:40 PM
They rushed tanks with cavalry. Cavalry.

And they refused to learn from the mistake. You ought to read up on some of the insane shit the polish pilots who volunteered to fight under British command did.

They used to do their appointed bombing missions and then deliberately take massively dangerous detours across Germany on the way back just looking for dogfights with any German they could find. They'd be told off for getting their planes shot up and just grin sheepishly and do it again, and again, and again..

WarPhalange
13th July 09, 04:42 PM
And they refused to learn from the mistake.

Hey, I never said they were smart.

Zendetta
13th July 09, 05:37 PM
They rushed tanks with cavalry. Cavalry.

Snappy dressers, though.

Lebell
13th July 09, 05:39 PM
my grandfather didnt like the polish they freaked him out.
he cant really speak the language except for ' for the love of god, not my balls i already surrender mein herr!'

weird.

Lebell
13th July 09, 06:20 PM
i merely 'worked the numbers and figures' a concept not untirely unknown amongst the jewish community...

amirite?

plasma?

Tanhalen21
14th July 09, 04:22 AM
I tend to touch wood.

Artful Dentures
14th July 09, 09:41 AM
i merely 'worked the numbers and figures' a concept not untirely unknown amongst the jewish community...

amirite?

plasma?


You're starting to act like a jackass

WarPhalange
14th July 09, 11:27 AM
You're starting to act like a jackass

I think you're spending too much time. Your "jackass" threshold is far higher than most people's. He's been weaving in and out of jackass territory for the entire thread.

Toby Christensen
14th July 09, 06:07 PM
Whether it was 1 person or six million the Holocaust was FUCKING APPALLING.

No I'm not Jewish (or convict, coloured or anything but ScandoCeltic blend, thereby denying my family an interesting lineage).

If Lebell in his supposedly "superior" wit can't see that then there really is no hope.

If I were a mod Lebell would have been permabanned almost as soon as he joined.

Ajamil
14th July 09, 10:34 PM
I'm glad you're not a mod then. Lebell has certainly pissed a lot of people off, but he hasn't denied the horror of the holocaust, and he hasn't really done anything ban worthy.

Lebell
15th July 09, 05:49 AM
Whether it was 1 person or six million the Holocaust was FUCKING APPALLING.

No I'm not Jewish (or convict, coloured or anything but ScandoCeltic blend, thereby denying my family an interesting lineage).

If Lebell in his supposedly "superior" wit can't see that then there really is no hope.

If I were a mod Lebell would have been permabanned almost as soon as he joined.

yes and if you had read the whole thread you would have read my post where it said: 'if only it were 10 or a 100 people it would still be a horror.'

then plasma joined in and started screaming OH MAI JAHWEH U HATE JEWS!!! WHERE'S MY JEWISH DEFENSE LAEGUE CAPE?!THE NAZIS ARE BACK!!WAARGH!!!

i tried to explain how i didnt even start this thread, it got culled by Steve.
plasma kept screaming so i took him for a ride.

Cullion
15th July 09, 01:40 PM
If I were a mod Lebell would have been permabanned almost as soon as he joined.

http://www.tristanbannon.com/images/motivation/irony.jpg

Toby Christensen
15th July 09, 05:26 PM
The woman on the left obviously has a medical condition.

Whereas Lebell is Dutch. Yes, as horrible as it is, I hope medical science helps Lebell, too.

Ajamil
16th July 09, 12:00 AM
RS_3pED-wJo

One of the only artists I've heard that really saw the value in rap.

Lebell
16th July 09, 04:08 AM
zomg i have surgery in about two hours, its going to be awesome, i hope they shoot me up with morphine.

who knows, it might improve my posting.

Kiko
16th July 09, 06:14 AM
zomg i have surgery in about two hours, its going to be awesome, i hope they shoot me up with morphine.

who knows, it might improve my posting.

We can always hope, can't we?

Ajamil
16th July 09, 12:05 PM
By improve, he means he'll be too drugged to post.

Lebell
17th July 09, 01:11 AM
it was awesome.

my surgeon was a condensending prick but at least he shot me up good.
only 3 stitches though.

lame.

Zendetta
17th July 09, 01:57 AM
Sex-change, or what?

EuropIan
17th July 09, 07:13 AM
my surgeon was a condensending prick but at least he shot me up good.
only 3 stitches though.
One for every inch

Lebell
17th July 09, 10:27 AM
nah dude.
though ive had stitiches in my pen0r before.

they cut in meh face!!!!
they even gave me sedation which was funny, i was a bit high.
the surgeon kept babbeling to me but i couldnt speak properly cos my lowerlip was numb.

when we were done i asked him what was in the needles and he just told me to ' get out' .

what a prick.

Fearless Ukemi
17th July 09, 11:12 AM
He molested you. You should be worried if you start getting sores on your lip.

Lebell
22nd July 09, 08:34 AM
the stitches itch.

should i see a doktor?

Ajamil
22nd July 09, 12:32 PM
Dating doctors is always weird.

Lebell
22nd July 09, 12:47 PM
you dont have to tell me, my doctor is an old drinking buddy from when he was still in medschool.

awkward.

luckily i dont have std's much.

Dark Helmet
30th July 09, 10:08 PM
Bump
Hahaha!Lol!Funny.
http://www.99chan.org/reich/src/124829631150.jpg
/Treadclosed

Lebell
31st July 09, 08:06 AM
LMAO!

awesome.

what does the Z on their uniforms stand for?
Zjew?

Craigypooh
31st July 09, 08:44 AM
I guess they're meant to be Zionists using the holocaust to further their cause of maintaining a Jewish homeland.

Lebell
31st July 09, 08:47 AM
yeah i know, it's really a problem.

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 09:00 AM
Ahahha, yeah, those fuckin jews

Lebell
31st July 09, 09:06 AM
i don't think they do a lot of fucking, in fact that might be a reason for all those tensions.

arabs and jews should start interbreeding, that would solve crap.

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 09:16 AM
i don't think they do a lot of fucking, in fact that might be a reason for all those tensions.

arabs and jews should start interbreeding, that would solve crap.
You know very little about Jews. The families here have like 10 kids each.

Lebell
31st July 09, 09:54 AM
yes because they steal them from the cradles of christians.

thats right.

we know about that!!!

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 09:56 AM
yes because they steal them from the cradles of christians.

thats right.

we know about that!!!
Actually we eat those. All the ones we raise are Muslim born, we do it for the lulz.

Lebell
31st July 09, 09:58 AM
^ i rest my case.

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 10:01 AM
Don't quit now!

Lebell
31st July 09, 10:01 AM
well ive outed you, didnt i?

or....is there...moar?

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 10:03 AM
well ive outed you, didnt i?

or....is there...moar?
What do you mean you've outed me? It's only "outing" if I was hiding it.

Lebell
31st July 09, 10:04 AM
you wear the badge proudly?



(ghehehe)

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 10:06 AM
http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/independent_sharon.jpg

Lebell
31st July 09, 10:09 AM
*crush*

that made me LOL.

Lebell
31st July 09, 10:10 AM
here we go:
FYvwDz19ZlA

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 10:12 AM
I love it!

Lebell
31st July 09, 10:15 AM
you ever seen this one?
a bit tacky but i made me lol.
funkyzeit und schnell!!!
CMsaMGWPfHo

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 10:18 AM
I don't get it.

Lebell
31st July 09, 10:20 AM
well you see, it's not a real videoclip.
they used videofootage and mixed it a bit so it looked like they were actually playing the song.

now the song itself is very swinging and lighthearted, as the nazis were known for their serious stiff behaviour.

the combination of those two things are contradicting and could be considered funny.

WarPhalange
31st July 09, 10:52 AM
http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/independent_sharon.jpg

I don't know who those people are, but that's based on my all-time favorite painting, so thumbs up.

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 11:28 AM
I don't know who those people are, but that's based on my all-time favorite painting, so thumbs up.
Heeeey, fuck off.

KO'd N DOA
31st July 09, 12:52 PM
I worked in a nursing home with some old German Jew, who had been a concert pianist in WWII. He was in his 90's, blind, and always crying, day and night in German, and would only shut up when you would either hold his hand, or roll him in front of a Piano and encourage him to play some Bach.

Anyway, years later at my pinko leftist University, the Schindlers list movie comes out, and we go back to the Deans house afterwards for a wine and cheese, sponsered in part by the Jewish Union. Austensibly to promote healing and intercultural exchange.

We go around the circle talking about themselves, the movie, WWII, ect. Most there had stories from relatives who knew someone, did a book report ect...few had any direct family members involved.

I told them I felt sorry for the old guy at the nursing home story so I kinda know a rolocost survivor.

Many of my fellow students of the Jewish Union, said that I have no right to feel anything as I was equally quilty, as Canada turned away the Jewish filled SS. St Louis, (as did the US and Cuba) and Canada stopped the Jews from coming here:

- Therefore I went in the blink of an eye, from a simple farmer trying to understand the kids of immigrants, to being an anti semite and nearest thing to being a Nazi that they could find in the Canadian wilderness in the 1990's.

Spoiled immigrant kids. The next set of you are on your own, what happens in the old world stays there, leave your demons at home before you pack your bags.

(- Postcript - I love researching history but will not watch the History Channel.)

Lebell
31st July 09, 01:00 PM
I worked in a nursing home with some old German Jew, who had been a concert pianist in WWII. He was in his 90's, blind, and always crying, day and night in German, and would only shut up when you would either hold his hand, or roll him in front of a Piano and encourage him to play some Bach.

he played Bach on piano...really?

okay..


Anyway, years later at my pinko leftist University, the Schindlers list movie comes out, and we go back to the Deans house afterwards for a wine and cheese, sponsered in part by the Jewish Union. Austensibly to promote healing and intercultural exchange.

We go around the circle talking about themselves, the movie, WWII, ect. Most there had stories from relatives who knew someone, did a book report ect...few had any direct family members involved.

I told them I felt sorry for the old guy at the nursing home story so I kinda know a rolocost survivor.

Many of my fellow students of the Jewish Union, said that I have no right to feel anything as I was equally quilty, as Canada turned away the Jewish filled SS. St Louis, (as did the US and Cuba) and Canada stopped the Jews from coming here:

- Therefore I went in the blink of an eye, from a simple farmer trying to understand the kids of immigrants, to being an anti semite and nearest thing to being a Nazi that they could find in the Canadian wilderness in the 1990's.

Sounds about right.
it's their main modus operandi.
' omg you werent there, don't even assume to feel our pain and trauma..whaaa whaaaa...'


Spoiled immigrant kids. The next set of you are on your own, what happens in the old world stays there, leave your demons at home before you pack your bags.


Over here the jews are a bit less loud about it.
But they pretty much run the usa so there's the difference.

im not talking about every jew here, just the rich obnoxious kind with zionist ideas.

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 01:02 PM
So how often do you come to the US Lebell?

Lebell
31st July 09, 01:10 PM
So how often do you come to the US Lebell?

Why?
Are you inviting me?

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 01:12 PM
Why?
Are you inviting me?
Oh lord no. I want to arrange my schedule so when you're here I'm in Europe.

Lebell
31st July 09, 01:13 PM
Oh lord no. I want to arrange my schedule so when you're here I'm in Europe.

You should look me up when you're over here.
I'll show you around.

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 01:16 PM
You should look me up when you're over here.
I'll show you around.
Around the ovens?

Lebell
31st July 09, 01:17 PM
Around the ovens?

What ovens?
you been watching movies again?

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 01:18 PM
What ovens?
you been watching movies again?
I don't watch movies.

Lebell
31st July 09, 01:18 PM
well there goes my plan for our first fridaynight.

Artful Dentures
31st July 09, 01:20 PM
Over here the jews are a bit less loud about it.



What all 30 of them!

KO'd N DOA
31st July 09, 01:36 PM
he played Bach on piano...really?

okay..


He played many things, I recongnized mostly the Bach, but a drooling man in his 90's with a diaper and a german accent at a piano plays whatever he wants.



Sounds about right.
it's their main modus operandi.
' omg you werent there, don't even assume to feel our pain and trauma..whaaa whaaaa...'


I never met my grandparents or their brothers or sisters either, dying from asbestos, mines, or trampled by horses got the ones that didn't drink themselves to death because life in Canada sucked until the 50's.



Over here the jews are a bit less loud about it.
But they pretty much run the usa so there's the difference.

im not talking about every jew here, just the rich obnoxious kind with zionist ideas


Woe....I have no problem with the Jewish immigrants here now. We attoned for our sins, let them worship on Saturday, wear the minnonite clothes, and run our banks. Most of them do not play violins on rooftops anymore, they have assimilated nicely and these very banks are feasting quite nicely on the rest of the worlds economic woes.

Lebell
31st July 09, 01:40 PM
What all 30 of them!

we got more jews then that, but there used to be more.
i think they emigrated or something.
probably to the usa.

Lebell
31st July 09, 01:43 PM
He played many things, I recongnized mostly the Bach, but a drooling man in his 90's with a diaper and a german accent at a piano plays whatever he wants.


bach on the piano...okay.




I never met my grandparents or their brothers or sisters either, dying from asbestos, mines, or trampled by horses got the ones that didn't drink themselves to death because life in Canada sucked until the 50's.
It still does, got family up in toronto.

i knew 3 greatgrandparents, one grandfather and one grandmother.
i come from a family of sailors.
some drowned some are just drunk.
i prefer the latter.

KO'd N DOA
31st July 09, 01:53 PM
i knew 3 greatgrandparents, one grandfather and one grandmother.
i come from a family of sailors.
some drowned some are just drunk.
i prefer the latter.


In what sense did you "knew" them?

Lebell
31st July 09, 02:25 PM
In what sense did you "knew" them?

well, lets see, my grandmother died whn i was 18.
grandfather when i was 27, greatgrandparents died around 10 to 14 yrs of age.
so thats old enough for me to have had some uhm..band with them.

Artful Dentures
31st July 09, 03:07 PM
we got more jews then that, but there used to be more.
i think they emigrated or something.
probably to the usa.


Sorry I meant 46

A lot of Dutch Jews emigrated to South Africa by the way, I know cause they all then moved next door to me.

You're still a putz

Cullion
31st July 09, 03:47 PM
bach on the piano...okay.

Oh, it's been done beautifully. Don't dismiss it out of hand when it's done by a well trained musician.



It still does, got family up in toronto.

i knew 3 greatgrandparents, one grandfather and one grandmother.
i come from a family of sailors.
some drowned some are just drunk.
i prefer the latter.

Lebell it's time you started use proper grammar and capitalisation when you want to make a serious point. I know you're quite capable of it. I always thought you were sharp, but I let this stuff slide because I thought 'meh, it's a second language for him'. Now I know better, I don't.

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 04:12 PM
He refuses to bend before the hard boot of proper grammar. You, of all people, as a libertarian must understand this Cullion.

Cullion
31st July 09, 05:14 PM
I know Lebell very well, and he's played you all beautifully.

MaverickZ
31st July 09, 05:41 PM
I know Lebell very well, and he's played you all beautifully.
I'm pretty easy to play. Gullible, not very smart, emotionally vested.

Cullion
31st July 09, 05:44 PM
Lebell is essentially the same, but he's addicted to the thrill of getting a rise out of people. I'm often the same, just mellowed by being a touch older and having children.

Forgive him.

mrblackmagic
31st July 09, 08:34 PM
Normally, I wouldn't pay mind to the ravings of such a mad, but after reading up on the Dirlewanger Brigade of the SS. 5 million number of the concentration camps a little less probable.

Lebell
1st August 09, 04:14 AM
well, i think this thread has come to an end.
this got culled from Cullions thread ' strange things you believe in'.
there was a lot' omg's', some 'you fucking nazi!' negreps and an upset plasma promising to be waiting for me whenever i got to an american TD.
but nobody could rebuke my claim.

it was an interesting sitting.

last night i had unprotected sex with a hot jewish and a hot egyptian girl.
we were playing ' camp david' and turns out my penis could theoretically bring peace to the middle east.
HOT.

Artful Dentures
1st August 09, 09:56 AM
Normally, I wouldn't pay mind to the ravings of such a mad, but after reading up on the Dirlewanger Brigade of the SS. 5 million number of the concentration camps a little less probable.

the number wasn't based on concentration camps. The Nazi machine gunned plenty of people.

They exterminated lots of Poles because they were going to take over their land.

Dark Helmet
1st August 09, 10:01 AM
well, i think this thread has come to an end.
this got culled from Cullions thread ' strange things you believe in'.
there was a lot' omg's', some 'you fucking nazi!' negreps and an upset plasma promising to be waiting for me whenever i got to an american TD.
but nobody could rebuke my claim.

it was an interesting sitting.

last night i had unprotected sex with a hot jewish and a hot egyptian girl.
we were playing ' camp david' and turns out my penis could theoretically bring peace to the middle east.
HOT.
Pics of treaty or GTFO fast

Lebell
1st August 09, 10:53 AM
the number wasn't based on concentration camps. The Nazi machine gunned plenty of people.

They exterminated lots of Poles because they were going to take over their land.

The poles would have done the same to them if they had the chance.
you fail at europe.

mrblackmagic
1st August 09, 10:57 AM
the number wasn't based on concentration camps. The Nazi machine gunned plenty of people.

They exterminated lots of Poles because they were going to take over their land.

No, I was talking about the actual SS. The Dirlewanger Brigade consisted of volunteers from the concentration camps. Essentially, all undesirables were put into the camps not just jews.

Lebell
1st August 09, 12:04 PM
No, I was talking about the actual SS. The Dirlewanger Brigade consisted of volunteers from the concentration camps. Essentially, all undesirables were put into the camps not just jews.

yup, some resisting catholics (opposing nazification) resistance fighters, gipsy's commies, polish, russian pow's gay people etc etc

in several lagers the majority of inmates were non jews.

WarPhalange
1st August 09, 01:36 PM
The poles would have done the same to them if they had the chance.
you fail at europe.

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/lol_was.jpg

Explain yourself.

Lebell
1st August 09, 01:58 PM
the nazis invaded and annexated, but most people don't know that they had to, Stalin had the exact same plan.
The nazis got to him first.

russian-finland war of 39 anyone?

Artful Dentures
1st August 09, 06:56 PM
The poles would have done the same to them if they had the chance.
you fail at europe.


Yes the Poles and their deadly fucking cavalry were a serious threat to the Germans

Artful Dentures
1st August 09, 07:01 PM
No, I was talking about the actual SS. The Dirlewanger Brigade consisted of volunteers from the concentration camps. Essentially, all undesirables were put into the camps not just jews.

I don't think anyone claimed otherwise, but my point was the holocaust numbers just don't come from the concentration camps

and yes the Nazi's machine gunned non Jews as well

WarPhalange
1st August 09, 07:08 PM
the nazis invaded and annexated, but most people don't know that they had to, Stalin had the exact same plan.
The nazis got to him first.

russian-finland war of 39 anyone?

Stalin = Poland?

f4n4n
1st August 09, 07:47 PM
Serious people, I think there are a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions when it comes to this part of history. And I am not only talking about the holocaust.
PS: Just out of curiosity how many of you actually went and visited one of those camps? Who here got his knowledge from more than some TV program but actual books and/or actual eye witnesses? Who here took a look at the "denazification", how it was painted, how it was conceived and what actually happened? And now think again.

I am not justifying any position in this thread, I am just here asking questions.

resolve
1st August 09, 07:55 PM
I visited Dachau. I saw some of the mass grave areas and the ovens. It's a very disgusting place. Like, I don't know... still feels evil to me. Felt that...

I also saw the Berlin Wall fall in the same year. Sort of unrelated, but interesting that I basically watched the end of communism... those memories will stay with me forever.

WarPhalange
1st August 09, 11:42 PM
Serious people, I think there are a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions when it comes to this part of history. And I am not only talking about the holocaust.
PS: Just out of curiosity how many of you actually went and visited one of those camps? Who here got his knowledge from more than some TV program but actual books and/or actual eye witnesses? Who here took a look at the "denazification", how it was painted, how it was conceived and what actually happened? And now think again.

I am not justifying any position in this thread, I am just here asking questions.

My grandpa fought the Nazi's as a freedom fighter in the AK and was subsequently hunted by the Soviets after the war, so he had to move to the other side of Poland to not get caught.

My Grandma moved from Germany to Poland with her family during the war and had relatives that were actually in camps, tattoos and all.

WarPhalange
1st August 09, 11:43 PM
I also saw the Berlin Wall fall in the same year. Sort of unrelated, but interesting that I basically watched the end of communism... those memories will stay with me forever.

There's still China and their Great Wall.

Toby Christensen
1st August 09, 11:50 PM
There's still China and their Great Wall.

True.

I think their Great Wall is a legitimate cultural relic though.

WarPhalange
2nd August 09, 12:10 AM
Bullshit. It was totally built to separate East China and West China so that the communists could keep their people in the dark about everything else going on outside of their region.

Toby Christensen
2nd August 09, 12:54 AM
Several thousand years before Communism?

Lebell
2nd August 09, 06:32 AM
Yes the Poles and their deadly fucking cavalry were a serious threat to the Germans

yes the poles and their shitty army werent a good buffer when uncle stalin decided to invade, so they both invaded poland.

they always say:zomg the nazis started ww2 when they invaded poland, but few know it was a combined attack by the nazis ass wel as the soviets.
besides the soviets were also waging war against finland so they had proven to be looking for expansion.

moar history plz.

Cullion
2nd August 09, 08:30 AM
When I read the history of how the Finns handled Ivan, I learned a new respect for them. Those people seem quiet and mellow, but you'd better leave them alone..

Cullion
2nd August 09, 08:34 AM
The polish army was well trained and extremely brave, it's just that they were equipped for the Napoleonic era. Lots of the poles who turned up in the UK said 'we aren't planning to stay. can we just borrow some planes and machine guns plz?' and then won a disproportionate share of bravery decorations.

Lebell
2nd August 09, 09:49 AM
the best soldiers in the war were the wehrmacht soldiers.
but there too little of them to turn the tide.

any ww2 veteran would agree that zhe germans were ferocious and clever fighters.

russians however...well...quantity beats quality.

Artful Dentures
2nd August 09, 11:49 AM
yes the poles and their shitty army werent a good buffer when uncle stalin decided to invade, so they both invaded poland.

they always say:zomg the nazis started ww2 when they invaded poland, but few know it was a combined attack by the nazis ass wel as the soviets.
besides the soviets were also waging war against finland so they had proven to be looking for expansion.

moar history plz.


Dutch Boy pleez!

The Germans and Russians have been fighting over Bits and pieces of Poland for centuries.

The argument that Germany invaded Poland to protect itself is retarded.

It's not like they were trying to arm and help the Poles defend against the Soviets.

Yes the Soviets and Stalin were just as big as Douche bags as the Nazi.

Woopty doo.

Lebell
2nd August 09, 12:44 PM
Dutch Boy pleez!

The Germans and Russians have been fighting over Bits and pieces of Poland for centuries.

The argument that Germany invaded Poland to protect itself is retarded.

It's not like they were trying to arm and help the Poles defend against the Soviets.

Yes the Soviets and Stalin were just as big as Douche bags as the Nazi.

Woopty doo.

no, you're missing the point.
poland was fucked to begin with, it was a matter between the two ideologies: communism or national socialism.
poland was just unlucky enough to be in the middle of it.

arming the poles would have taken way too long, because you can give them panzers but it would take weeks to train the crews and teach the officers tactics on how to use them in a battle.

stalin wanted to expand so did hitler.
it wasnt so much the nazis starting the war, they were both on a collision course.

WarPhalange
2nd August 09, 01:25 PM
The difference is that the Nazis were actively exterminating Poles whereas the Russians were helping the fight against Nazis at the time. Getting stabbed in the back is never fun... but don't tell me that they were fighting each other and Poland just happened to be the battle ground.

Besides, a tiny piece of German land was surrounded by Polish land and separate from the rest of Germany, plus Poland had a huge amount of Jews.

There was absolutely nothing to gain vs. Russia by attacking Poland.

Cullion
2nd August 09, 01:26 PM
plus Poland had a huge amount of Jews.

So, that's a good enough reason, right? I'm not sure what the aryans are arguing over here.

Lebell
2nd August 09, 01:40 PM
The difference is that the Nazis were actively exterminating Poles whereas the Russians were helping the fight against Nazis at the time. Getting stabbed in the back is never fun... but don't tell me that they were fighting each other and Poland just happened to be the battle ground.

Besides, a tiny piece of German land was surrounded by Polish land and separate from the rest of Germany, plus Poland had a huge amount of Jews.

There was absolutely nothing to gain vs. Russia by attacking Poland.

dude...moar history.

poland got divided between nazi germany and soviet russia.
in 39.

Lebell
2nd August 09, 01:45 PM
Besides, a tiny piece of German land was surrounded by Polish land and separate from the rest of Germ

^^^

THIS.

exactly my point how modern day education is poisened by politics.
ww2 wasnt about jews.
im sorry.
its what they make of it now.

do you imagine the nazis like a bunch of madmen who were growling at jews, and wanted them so bad that they invaded poland?!

its not star wars dude.

the holocaust was a byproduct of the whole picture.
important but not the main thing.

thats exactly whats wrong nowadays, the general idea of ww2:nazi's invade europe for no reason, cos they're evil.
luckily the americans come and kick their asses.

what really happened is much more complicated and the results of the outcome of ww2 are still felt today.
for example in the recent balkan war.

Cullion
2nd August 09, 01:48 PM
The nazi party did growl at Jews man. I've seen the posters before the war. They believed that Jews were the hidden hand behind communism and financial speculation that had ruined Weimar Germany, much as some of the more bookish anti-semites today see them behind 9-11, and the credit crunch.

Artful Dentures
2nd August 09, 02:00 PM
^^^

THIS.

exactly my point how modern day education is poisened by politics.
ww2 wasnt about jews.
im sorry.
its what they make of it now.

do you imagine the nazis like a bunch of madmen who were growling at jews, and wanted them so bad that they invaded poland?!

its not star wars dude.

the holocaust was a byproduct of the whole picture.
important but not the main thing.

thats exactly whats wrong nowadays, the general idea of ww2:nazi's invade europe for no reason, cos they're evil.
luckily the americans come and kick their asses.

what really happened is much more complicated and the results of the outcome of ww2 are still felt today.
for example in the recent balkan war.


What Cullion said, the Nazis got elected into power based on fear of Jews and communists

A lot of Germans who supported Hitler thought they could use him against the growing German communist party and that they could control his excess.

They were wrong

There's was an entirely us vs them ideology.

Was it the only reason for ww2 no but the extermination of the Jews played a big part in Nazi ideaology and objectives.