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Lebell
2nd August 09, 03:25 PM
aargh.....

LOOK.
the nazis came into power because they seemed like the only good answer to the situation Germany faced: bad economy, heavy restrictions from the versailles treaty, etc.
fear for bolsjevism.

WW2 was a clash of two giant ideologies, that both had emerged out of the ashes of failed 19th century systems.
it was a continental european problem.
the germans had no experience with democracy, neither did the russians.
Both sides were excellent breeding ground for idiotic ideas.

national socialism took on kapitalism and communism and lost.
communism won military, but kapitalism won the hearts and minds.

THAT was what ww2 was, an attempt to consolidate a new order, a new way of governing and politics.
Thanks to russia the powers that were barely won.
jews got killed sure, but also the kroatians got fucked over bad by the eglish, who let them march unarmed into the hands of tito's partizans, or the sudeten volksdeutschers who got muredered by the thousands, the sinking of the wilhelm gustloff, twice or three times the amount of deaths then the titanic, the revolt in prague, polish who started murdering returing jews or german settlers, etc etc etc.

nobody wanted to know, by 49 communism was bad, the usa made movies about howe some guys ran onto a beach and europe was torn in half with on the other side commies waiting for us.

at least have some idea of what the hell you're talking about.

WarPhalange
2nd August 09, 04:01 PM
So, that's a good enough reason, right? I'm not sure what the aryans are arguing over here.

If your entire platform is "those fucking Jews!", and you are building up an army for war, it makes sense you'd attack a country that actually has a lot of Jews.


^^^

THIS.

exactly my point how modern day education is poisened by politics.
ww2 wasnt about jews.
im sorry.
its what they make of it now.

do you imagine the nazis like a bunch of madmen who were growling at jews, and wanted them so bad that they invaded poland?!

its not star wars dude.

the holocaust was a byproduct of the whole picture.
important but not the main thing.

thats exactly whats wrong nowadays, the general idea of ww2:nazi's invade europe for no reason, cos they're evil.
luckily the americans come and kick their asses.

what really happened is much more complicated and the results of the outcome of ww2 are still felt today.
for example in the recent balkan war.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that Germany invaded anything for the sole purpose of exterminating the Jews. Everybody knows that the Jews were a scapegoat for Germany's problems after WW1. It's a safe bet to say that Hitler "just plain didn't like Jews" (didn't he say that in Mein Kampf or something?), but if the Jews had suddenly got into spaceships and left Earth in 1938, he would have found someone else to point the finger at.

However, like I just said, if you're platform is "RARGH JEWS!!", you'll get more support from the people if you attack a country that is full of Jewish people instead of a country that isn't.

Secondly, you don't have a Holocaust happen as a "byproduct" of anything. Massive rounding up of non-Aryans, extermination, slave labor, human experiments, etc. That shit doesn't happen all by itself. There were actual people in charge of organizing this shit. It definitely wasn't a secondary goal, in the back of everyone's minds until after they settle the whole "take over Europe" thing.

Especially since the Nazis didn't want the general public to know of just how gruesome their actions were. It would have been much more beneficial to just keep all these people alive as slave labor and simply claim to be killing them off to appease the masses instead of actually spending time and money on genocide. Whereas what was happening in reality? Nobody had a fucking clue about the horrors being committed until the Allies finally busted into the concentration camps with Tequila and hookers.

Cullion
2nd August 09, 04:05 PM
Hitler already had other scapegoats. He killed a lot of christians who resisted naziism, homosexuals, gypsies and communists etc..

I think a lot of 'the public' new what was going on. They saw their jewish neighbours just.. disappear.. at the very least, and once the war got started, most of them if not in the armed forces, had relatives who were.

Lebell
2nd August 09, 04:11 PM
However, like I just said, if you're platform is "RARGH JEWS!!", you'll get more support from the people if you attack a country that is full of Jewish people instead of a country that isn't.

orlly?
so poland wasnt in between germany and russia then?
it isnt better to fight a war on foreign soil and allow your defensives lines to be deeper?

oh okay...


Secondly, you don't have a Holocaust happen as a "byproduct" of anything. Massive rounding up of non-Aryans, extermination, slave labor, human experiments, etc. That shit doesn't happen all by itself. There were actual people in charge of organizing this shit. It definitely wasn't a secondary goal, in the back of everyone's minds until after they settle the whole "take over Europe" thing.

no, but the scale wasnt so big in relation to the entire wareffort.


Especially since the Nazis didn't want the general public to know of just how gruesome their actions were. It would have been much more beneficial to just keep all these people alive as slave labor and simply claim to be killing them off to appease the masses instead of actually spending time and money on genocide. Whereas what was happening in reality? Nobody had a fucking clue about the horrors being committed until the Allies finally busted into the concentration camps with Tequila and hookers.

no.
sometimes mechanisms evolve.
the gassing etc didnt start from day one.
it was very half assed, they had all these slave labarors cramped in lagers, what thehell should they do?
some sadistic prick experimented with a carengine and voila, it evolved into gaschambers.
in order to keep everyone quiet and co-operative they'd say things like the people in camps were being relocated to new lands in the east.

keep also in mind if you want to be right that we have have things like rocket technology, stealth, and medical advancement because of the tests done by ss doctors in those camps.

i guess since its already done its morally okay to use that data right?

WarPhalange
2nd August 09, 04:11 PM
Hitler already had other scapegoats. He killed a lot of christians who resisted naziism, homosexuals, gypsies and communists etc..

None of which were as "good" as the Jews, who had been persecuted since they first committed history's first recorded genocide. Plus, only idiots would believe in something like "The Gay Agenda", most everyone was or knew Christians at the time, hence the Church getting involved and partying with Hitler. Gypies and communists were poor, whereas Jews were spread all across the economic scale, so you had business owners, bankers, etc., that could be blamed for shit going awry.

Lebell
2nd August 09, 04:13 PM
the first recorded genocide was performed BY the jews.
O.T.

WarPhalange
2nd August 09, 04:16 PM
the first recorded genocide was performed BY the jews.
O.T.

That's what I just said.

Lebell
2nd August 09, 04:18 PM
i want you to really really keep that in mind.
now go read my bigger post, you get educated on this.

Artful Dentures
2nd August 09, 05:06 PM
Get educated on what? your posts are straw man after straw man.

The idea that Nazism was the only way for Germany to go after WWI is crap

The world was in the grips of a great depression.

The US - a much bigger country, had more out of work people and food lines. Communism was everywhere in the UK and the US.

Neither the US nor the UK adopted Fascist racist mentality to address it's issue - although there were supporters in both countries.

The idea that invading Poland was necessary and the only way to stop Soviet Russia is ridiculous.

Nothing the Nazi's did was inevitable nor necessary.

It took a "perfect storm" of massive miscalculations and fuck ups for a country like Germany, which had a lot of realy educated and smart people in it. To elect the Nazi's

One of the tools the Nazi's used was fear mongering and their easiest most visable, richest target were the Jews.

No one denies that the Nazi's were equal opportunity killers but they made a special effort for the Jews above everyone else.

Even on the verge of total defeat they still put resources into the camps and tried to organize a final kill off.

Don't forget one of the big reasons behind all this was money. Jews had it and Nazi's took it.

Cullion
2nd August 09, 05:14 PM
I think things were worse at the time for Germans in several senses. In a practical sense, they were paying big war reparations for WWI which Brits and Americans weren't lumbered with, and their government let things spin out of control by trying to inflate their way out of trouble.

In addition to the practical problems, the grinding down of the nation's psyche was probably just as unbearable. There were people in Britain and the US with problems, for sure, but in the case of the English speakers, the Americans could still feel like they were part of something new, and fair, and on its way up. The Brits/Canadians/Aussies were part of a great Empire which whilst ailing, hadn't lost a war for 1000 years. I think people can endure the same practical problems with a lot more cheerful resolution if they have pride in themselves and hope for the future.

Germans were having their noses ground into their recent failure.

It's a poisonous cocktail. I can see how it would make them susceptible to somebody, who seemed to be an ordinary German with a background as a decorated soldier, susceptible to somebody offering to make them proud and confident again.

Artful Dentures
2nd August 09, 09:41 PM
I don't disagree to the causes especially the war reparations but the idea of the Nazi's rise to power being inevitable bothers me because it takes away from peoples responsibilities.

Nothing is inevitable

f4n4n
2nd August 09, 09:42 PM
Okay, little history lesson for some of you, even though it is late and I should be in bed right now...(I might miss something because of that and will keep it short)
1) US did not have antisemitism? WTF KKK had its biggest times during 20's and 30's but hey, you did not went looking for scapegoats right?
2) The UK had a huge follow movement of the Nazis, this is one of the reasons why hitler and others looked at them "as the same" and did not invade the UK and did not attack them that hard in the beginning, they were hoping that they would join and it looked like it for quite some time.
3) Antisemitism is a European theme through the past 2 millenia, France had it, Germany had it, the UK had it, Italy, Spain, you name it. The Germans did not come up with it and they were not the first to make it "popular". Look at how people in all the "occupied" countries helped with the cleansing...
4) People voted for hitler and supported him through out his time for more than just "I hate the jews", look at what he "did" for the people, jobs (sure on credit, I will come to that later), labor rights, kids education/vecation, woman rights (partially, where it fit the ideology and needs of Germany, look when and where mothers/womens day comes from), infrastructure etc.
4a) people felt punished by Versailles and "reparations" made the situation worse for Germany
4b) people supported hitler even when they know what was going on because they were afraid of the Russians (because of propaganda, what they did to the people during the war, communism, a few other reasons) and they were fighting back whit all they could (look at how many people surrendered to the US/UK and how many to the Russians, go figure
5) Hitler had to go to war at the time of 39 for several reasons, the economy was based on loans, Germany, due to Versailles, lacked important resources, Russia was on the move, fascism was on the rise in Italy, Spain, the UK and even France, hopes of those countries joining them where there.
6) Pooploops, you are wrong, the hollocaust was part of the new order of Europe, it was, as wrong as it sounds saying it, a byproduct (though for some people in charge it was a main goal, it was not the main goal for the war!) Read how Europe was supposed to be split up and "moving" those people east was the idea (guess what it happened, the jews and others were moved east, yes they were killed there but that is a different part of the issue, don't mix them up)
7) poop you are also wrong on the church but I don't want to get into that. There is a big thread on Bullshido, where I posted about Nazis and the church during the war, read up on it please before you talk out of your behind.

I urge you people to read up on this and I don't talk about an american history book or something like that but really read up on all that because there are a lot of ill/misinformed people talking out of their ass.
Most of what Lebell says is right, the way he says it or what he uses this for, that is a different question but he has more of his facts straight than you people...

Oh and yeah I know my stuff, not only because my sister studied history with a focus on the 3rd Reich... and my gf. is working on international relations with a focus on the German/Russian relation before and during WW2.

Edit: In addition to 4)
Hitler was a strong leader figure, offering structure and stability and a bit of the old Kaiser, during a time of constant political debate and stagnation. Before his election the Reichstag was a mess that did not got anything done, it was a stand still, no unity, no perspective.

WarPhalange
2nd August 09, 09:44 PM
tl;dr sleeping with your sister and her girlfriend is how you learned about Nazis?

f4n4n
2nd August 09, 09:47 PM
Oh this is your reply? TL:DR and then go on insulting my family, my gf and me? Wow, ignorance is probably the biggest problem in the world these days.

And I learned about history by reading books, pay attention in class, think on my own. Sounds familiar? Well maybe not but don't bother...

Artful Dentures
2nd August 09, 10:09 PM
Yes Anti-semitisim was not just a German thing, ironically prior to WWII Jews had it better in Germany than most of the other parts of Europe

However anti-semitcism was a BIG theme of the Nazi party.

The US has racism and the history of slavery, but they fought a civil war over that, didn't elect a nut case (until George W)

and on to one of my big pet peeves

the whole "Hitler was a good leader he just went to far" argument

Yeah he built the autobhan and got the economy moving.

But people forget he did this by being a brutal nationalizing thug he bullied, beat and killed those who opposed him.


Yes he got things done

but you can't be surprised when it goes too far. The early achievement and later "excess" are all connected to one and an other.

Again Nazism wasn't the only inevitable answer to Germany's problems

The ends don't justify the means because the means shape the ends.

You can say this for Hitler he never hid what he wanted to do or how he was going to go about it. People just stuck their heads in their ass.

WarPhalange
2nd August 09, 10:45 PM
Oh this is your reply? TL:DR and then go on insulting my family, my gf and me? Wow, ignorance is probably the biggest problem in the world these days.

Yes, ignorance followed by people who think they are hot shit for restating things everybody knows or things that don't pertain to the subject at hand. And can't read, apparently.

Let's take a look:

1) The antisemitism thing? I think I covered it when I said that Jews have been hunted for sport ever since God said he totally has their backs. That's why it wasn't a big deal when they were declared the people responsible for Germany's shitty state.

2) The Holocaust being a byproduct or the war? Really? You have death camps pop up because you want to move people East? You don't have Death Camps set up unless you want people dead. Slave labor would have been a better use of those people than having them dig their own graves and then shooting them. Do you have any idea how much money it would cost to build gas chambers and then have people dispose of the bodies, clean the chamber, buy gas, maintenance, etc.? These weren't POW's or criminals, either. This isn't a case of "Oh shit, we have all these people that are already imprisoned. Let's kill them off to make it easier for us."

What the fuck is wrong with you?

3) Pertaining to the church issue: The issue being debated was "Hitler didn't use Jews as a scapegoat, he had others." Among which Christians were listed. I responded by pointing out that Christianity was much more popular than Judaism and blaming the Christians for Germany's plight would not have gone over well.

Dagon Akujin
3rd August 09, 12:11 AM
blaming the Christians for Germany's plight would not have gone over well.

Especially when the Nazis USED the church to make their case. "Hey, be a good Christian and support your country, or else you're a traitorous heathen with no morals!!!"

http://www.remnantofgod.org/hitlerrccfriend.gif

resolve
3rd August 09, 12:46 AM
I wonder which ovens those priests were thrown into?

Dagon Akujin
3rd August 09, 12:49 AM
^^^^^^^Or do you mean which ovens they helped to purchase with their contributions and the contributions of their loyal church followers?

resolve
3rd August 09, 01:16 AM
Although the Catholic Church was persecuted in the Third Reich, Catholics as a group were not officially targeted by the Nazis merely for practicing the Catholic faith. In fact, a substantial minority of the population of the Third Reich was baptized Catholic, including some members of the Nazi elite. The Nazis did try to systematically undermine the Church's influence and teachings through propaganda and cracked down hard on individual clergymen who dared to criticize the policies of the regime. Members of the clergy who were unwilling to embrace the Nazi state risked arrest for a myriad of violations: refusal to remove religious artifacts from schools; participation in religious processions; political criticism from the pulpit; assistance to public enemies such as Jews; pacifism, etc. Punishment ranged from a few days in jail to internment in a concentration camp to execution. Often, members of the clergy died under ambiguous circumstances while serving a sentence or awaiting trial, with their deaths officially attributed to accident or illness. Catholic laity who were unwilling to submit to Nazi rule faced similar persecution. In the eastern European regions, millions of Poles -- Jews and Catholics alike -- were murdered by the SS and police personnel in the field or in killing centers such as Auschwitz-Birkenau and Treblinka. In the ideology of the Nazis, the Poles were considered an inferior "race." The Germans intended to murder members of the political, cultural and military elite and reduce the remainder of the Polish population to the status of a vast pool of labor for the so-called German master race. It is estimated that between 5 and 5.5 million Polish civilians, including 3 million Polish Jews, died or were killed under Nazi occupation. This figure excludes Polish civilians and military personnel who were killed in military or partisan operations. They number approximately 664,000. SS authorities in the concentration camps did not generally record the religious affiliation of a prisoner, with the exception of the Jehovah's Witnesses. As a result it is difficult, perhaps impossible, to reliably estimate the total number of Catholic victims who were persecuted or killed because of some action or position connected to their Catholic faith. Some data exists regarding the number of Catholic prisoners (especially members of the clergy) in individual camps.

Sure, while some kept their mouth shut and lived...

Lebell
3rd August 09, 04:14 AM
Get educated on what? your posts are straw man after straw man.

The idea that Nazism was the only way for Germany to go after WWI is crap

The world was in the grips of a great depression.

Nazism won the contest in Germany, it beat communism.
so nazism wasnt the only way.
Like i said before, understand what the situation was like back then:both germans and russians came from crumbled empires, totaletarian regimes and had no experience with democracy.
germans therefor are more likely to go for one of those 2 then for a capitalistic democracy.




Neither the US nor the UK adopted Fascist racist mentality to address it's issue - although there were supporters in both countries.

America was relative safe remember?
Here in europe soviet russia with uncle stalin was right at the doorstep and the situation in germany was instabile, go google freikorps and putsch etc.
England had quite a few national socialist supporters, but when the war started loads of them let their love for their fatherland prevail over their political preferences....and guess what same went for the germans.


The idea that invading Poland was necessary and the only way to stop Soviet Russia is ridiculous.

Nothing the Nazi's did was inevitable nor necessary.

you don't understand it but it doesnt make it ridiculous.
one more time, Germany-Poland-Russia
imagine im holding puppets.
' hai goju joe! im uncle stalin! i just killed a shitload of my officers and am rebuilding my command structurere with loyal officers!
im also waging war on finland because communism is the best!'


oh noes! who is there? yes goju, very good! it is uncle adolf!
' has anyone seen stalin?
where is he?
what did you say goju joe?
you seen him building up his army and invading finland?
uh-oh thats not good!
but rest assured, im safe because poland lies in between our two countries and...oh shit...they ride horses for cavalery..
if i dont want to get fucked up the ass by uncle stalin i better strike him right now by invading poland and improve my position for when the time comes when a russian-german war is inevitable.'




It took a "perfect storm" of massive miscalculations and fuck ups for a country like Germany, which had a lot of realy educated and smart people in it. To elect the Nazi's

One of the tools the Nazi's used was fear mongering and their easiest most visable, richest target were the Jews.

No one denies that the Nazi's were equal opportunity killers but they made a special effort for the Jews above everyone else.

Even on the verge of total defeat they still put resources into the camps and tried to organize a final kill off.

Don't forget one of the big reasons behind all this was money. Jews had it and Nazi's took it.

uhm.....right...
who pays for holocaust information?
the jewish defense league or something?!

fucking hell...

f4n4n
3rd August 09, 06:31 AM
As Lebell said, Hitler was not the inevitable option, nobody claimed that, but for many he looked like the most promising at that time. And when you are without a job, your kids need food and the outlook for the country sucks as well, you don't give a shit about killing other people, you go to the guy who looks like he can improve your situation as soon and much as possible. Read the party program please, though there is talk about antisemitism it is not the main point and was not conceived as that. Again, people were in debt, starving, jobless etc. Killing the jews was not their first priority.

Oh and since we are pointing out the problem with the holocaust, didn't the US have some nice concentration camps for the Japanese? And wasn't the idea born by the UK?
I am not trying to justify anything that has been done but I am saying, it is not black and white, good and evil (like Lebell said before). What you derive from that, well here I think quite different from Lebell but it does not negate his point.

Lebell
3rd August 09, 07:02 AM
the main misunderstanding in this thread is the viewpoints and different backgrounds.
american posters don't have a good sense of what was really going on, can't blame them since it's not really in their culture to understand different cultures.
Thats not me being a dick, but the average american doesnt know shit about other places in the world, blame the media or whatever, but it's a fact.

the scary thing is that there is a strong pro israel lobby to this day in the usa and it clearly steers the american perception of what ww2 was about.
the rough idea of what i think is how the americans see ww2: japan attacked us, we kicked its ass, over in europe there were evil nazis murdering jews and we sorted them out too.

'the jewish lobby' or at least pro jewish groups hijacked the most crucial pivoting point in 20th century history into a one dimensional happening which they use to this very day to justify what they are doing to the palestines.

go read through this thread and see people like plasma respond iwthout reasoning: ' zomg whaaa ur racist!' it s a totally conditioned reaction.

i simply say first get your facts straight, the info is out there in a bazillion books and after reading some books about why and how ww2 was fought you'll realise the hoocaust was a minor thing within the epic slaughter that was ww2.

most older generations of europeans tend to shut up when it comes to the truth, they know that every country was guilty, Germany got the shit after the war, but what about Finland?Austria? Italy? Romania? Checo-slovakia? Bulgaria? Thailand? (wtf? yes thailand)
And some more, go look it up on wiki or something.

Occupied countries who already had social nationalist parties (as wel as communist but they lost), who had huge amounts of collaborators and sended ss volunteers?

didyou think ' zhe germans' marched through russia by themselves?
they took central europe with them, norwegians, danes, dutch, french,belgians,bosnian muslims,kroatians, ukrainians, estonians, and so on and so on.

because they all wanted to kill jews?
or perhaps they believed bolsjevism should be destroyed once and for all?



just a thought.

KO'd N DOA
3rd August 09, 09:26 AM
Lebell, you do now that history is actually HIS- story, the implied HE being the one who has the Jews' back. (thank you bumper stickers + PoopLoops)

It really is that simple.

Artful Dentures
3rd August 09, 10:01 AM
the main misunderstanding in this thread is the viewpoints and different backgrounds.
american posters don't have a good sense of what was really going on, can't blame them since it's not really in their culture to understand different cultures.
Thats not me being a dick, but the average american doesnt know shit about other places in the world, blame the media or whatever, but it's a fact.


Straw man argument 1

The fact that some hick in Tennessee probably can't find Europe on a map has nothing to do with this thread or anything anyone says.

The Idea that American posters don't know shit because their American is once again a straw man.






the scary thing is that there is a strong pro israel lobby to this day in the usa and it clearly steers the american perception of what ww2 was about.
the rough idea of what i think is how the americans see ww2: japan attacked us, we kicked its ass, over in europe there were evil nazis murdering jews and we sorted them out too.

Straw man number 2

that the American perception that WWII is is all about the holocaust. Going back to your earlier straw man there's a ton of Americans who don't even know the Holocaust happened.

Again the Nazi's aren't thought of as evil fuckers just cause they killed Jews.

They're thought of evil fuckers because they tried to violently take over the world.

The idea that Americans view WWII as a war to save the Jews exists only in your head.

The whole "Germany had to defend itself against Stalin is still BS. They invaded all of Europe and Russia was a backwards fucked up country with a large slave population and very little real industrial ability or ability to project military force beyond its borders.

The fear of the spread of communism was an internal one against communism being adopted by its population.

Yes it took a lot of fucking up for Germany to get to the point where they had to choose between Nazis and Commies.

But it was never inevitable nor does the threat of communism justify Germany's actions anywhere even in Poland, even in self defense.

It's not like the invasion of Poland and then Russia helped Germany





'the jewish lobby' or at least pro jewish groups hijacked the most crucial pivoting point in 20th century history into a one dimensional happening which they use to this very day to justify what they are doing to the palestines.

go read through this thread and see people like plasma respond iwthout reasoning: ' zomg whaaa ur racist!' it s a totally conditioned reaction.


Straw man number three , well straw man number 2A, while the refugee status of Jews after WWII as a result of the holocaust had a major impact ont he state of Israel's creation. The idea that WW2 was hijacked by the Jewish lobby and thats how American's only view it is again an assumprion pulled out of your ass.




i simply say first get your facts straight, the info is out there in a bazillion books and after reading some books about why and how ww2 was fought you'll realise the hoocaust was a minor thing within the epic slaughter that was ww2.

most older generations of europeans tend to shut up when it comes to the truth, they know that every country was guilty, Germany got the shit after the war, but what about Finland?Austria? Italy? Romania? Checo-slovakia? Bulgaria? Thailand? (wtf? yes thailand)
And some more, go look it up on wiki or something.

Occupied countries who already had social nationalist parties (as wel as communist but they lost), who had huge amounts of collaborators and sended ss volunteers?


Yeah most people know that Europe in general sucks. Bt Germainy was prime instegator / organizer/ mover and shaker number one



didyou think ' zhe germans' marched through russia by themselves?
they took central europe with them, norwegians, danes, dutch, french,belgians,bosnian muslims,kroatians, ukrainians, estonians, and so on and so on.

because they all wanted to kill jews?
or perhaps they believed bolsjevism should be destroyed once and for all?



Again same straw man. no one says that the Nazi's just invaded to kill Jews, but they made sure to to it as they passed by. Putting in a lot of time and effort to do so at the detriment of their time and resources.

Also many people from the rest of Europe were forced to fight on the Russian front, trying to portray it as a joint effort by Europe to fight Bolshevism is wrong, most of those countries were taken over or annexed by Nazi Germany .

One guy's who was concentration camp a survivors story I read, brother, who was Jewish got sent to the Russian front, he got sent to a work camp and then near the end Dachau for elimination and he escaped enroute

Also in places like Italy and Hungary it wasn't until their Facist governments fell and the Nazi's took over that they actually shipped Jews off to the camps.

The King of Norway wore a star of David to protest the treatment of his Jews.

Lots of blame to spread but it all starts with Nazi Germany.

Sucks for Germans of today and it's somewhat unfair to have to live with it but that's the way it is.

Artful Dentures
3rd August 09, 10:09 AM
I almost forgot this nugget

[quote] it's not really in their culture to understand different cultures.

GTFO The Nederlands aren't some great melting pot of cultural diversity. I guarantee you I live in a more Cultural diverse city and have more experience in my daily life with radically different cultures than you or most Europeans have in a year.

WarPhalange
3rd August 09, 10:51 AM
I almost forgot this nugget

[quote] it's not really in their culture to understand different cultures.

GTFO The Nederlands aren't some great melting pot of cultural diversity. I guarantee you I live in a more Cultural diverse city and have more experience in my daily life with radically different cultures than you or most Europeans have in a year.

Haha seriously.

Lebell
3rd August 09, 11:00 AM
I almost forgot this nugget

[quote] it's not really in their culture to understand different cultures.

GTFO The Nederlands aren't some great melting pot of cultural diversity. I guarantee you I live in a more Cultural diverse city and have more experience in my daily life with radically different cultures than you or most Europeans have in a year.

point proven.

lolland is extremely diverse.
just in my street alone there are indians, maroccans, italians and americans living there.

oh also capeverdians and spanish.

ask m.c. he was over here and you meet loads of different nationalities on one night out.

Lebell
3rd August 09, 11:01 AM
but yeah kinda hard to imagine that people would prefer to immigrate to any other land then gods own country the usa huh?

WarPhalange
3rd August 09, 11:10 AM
What % of the local population do these people make up compared to white bread quasi-Germans?

Artful Dentures
3rd August 09, 11:16 AM
Wow you have some people on your street of different nationalities! Woopdy doo for you!

Having a small group of people from different areas is not diversity

what percentage of the Netherlands is not Dutch, how much of the Netherlands diversity is outside of a few major cities?

20-30 years of immigration does not make a country diverse

Canada and the USA are "Immigrant countries." Founded by immigrants created by immigrants

The smarmy European attitude towards diversity and the US is crap

now that we are getting into 20-30 years of immigration in Europe we are starting to see massive cracks in the so called multi-cultural societies, from riots in Paris to stabbings of Muslims in Germany.

You think it's going to get better?

America is called a melting pot for a reason. Because with all it's bigotry and ignorance they still elected the son of a Kenyan Muslim as President.

The idea of European diversity and tolerance is mostly a sham that was based on small numbers of immigrants, now the numbers are growing significantly all the fake attitudes are starting to come out.

WarPhalange
3rd August 09, 11:23 AM
How many stores do you have dedicated to food and products from other countries, and no, I don't mean Italy or France, I mean Morocco or India, etc?

Lebell
3rd August 09, 11:59 AM
Wow you have some people on your street of different nationalities! Woopdy doo for you!

Having a small group of people from different areas is not diversity

if you say so..?


what percentage of the Netherlands is not Dutch, how much of the Netherlands diversity is outside of a few major cities?

wouldn't know, if both your parents are born in NL, but you're ethnically black you show up as indeginous dutch in the statistics.
unlike the usa right?
hehe...


20-30 years of immigration does not make a country diverse


if you say so...?

Canada and the USA are "Immigrant countries." Founded by immigrants created by immigrants

good propaganda boy!


The smarmy European attitude towards diversity and the US is crap

now that we are getting into 20-30 years of immigration in Europe we are starting to see massive cracks in the so called multi-cultural societies, from riots in Paris to stabbings of Muslims in Germany.

You think it's going to get better?

Thats because the USA doesnt really have a culture like we do.
It'd pretty easy to adapt to ammerrukah, just have a flag and yell god bless this amazing country/zomg freedom of speech/platitudes all day long.


America is called a melting pot for a reason. Because with all it's bigotry and ignorance they still elected the son of a Kenyan Muslim as President.

facepalm moment.
you are ignorant dude.
' see we're not racist? we voted a nig..black guy president!'
yeah but again...if you say so....?




The idea of European diversity and tolerance is mostly a sham that was based on small numbers of immigrants, now the numbers are growing significantly all the fake attitudes are starting to come out.

what fake attitudes?
the ' man in the street' has always complained about it.
you see, we should have leared something from the usa, unlike the usa european countries didnt put any money or effort to kick out the guestworkers, they let them stay..well okay, but then they should have put in time and effort teaching them the culture and language.


i'll tell you right here and right now that i feel that everything other then very liberal islamic has no place in our continent and should get rid off asap.
you have a very vague understanding about what exactly is going on here.
i can tell you more about it though.

Artful Dentures
3rd August 09, 12:38 PM
facepalm moment.
you are ignorant dude.
' see we're not racist? we voted a nig..black guy president!'
yeah but again...if you say so....?




Straw man much?



what fake attitudes?
the ' man in the street' has always complained about it.
you see, we should have leared something from the usa, unlike the usa european countries didnt put any money or effort to kick out the guestworkers, they let them stay..well okay, but then they should have put in time and effort teaching them the culture and language.


i'll tell you right here and right now that i feel that everything other then very liberal islamic has no place in our continent and should get rid off asap.
you have a very vague understanding about what exactly is going on here.
i can tell you more about it though.


It's very easy for European countries to believe they have a better attitude towards different ethnic groups when they represent such small parts of their population.


It was this pretend and false attitude about Europe's acceptance towards other ethnicity that has allowed so many fundamental Muslim groups to immigrate their and then causes the tension.

That's why you end up with riots of North African youths in Paris.

The hey "we're multi-cultural" come to our country and keep all your ideals premise was naive, hypocritical and a recipe for disaster.

America might fuck up a lot, be arrogant and ignorant but its still the best place in the world to emigrate to and gives more genuine opportunity to diverse people anywhere.

Europes experiment with emmigration is going to grow into a disaster.

MaverickZ
3rd August 09, 12:46 PM
Thats because the USA doesnt really have a culture like we do.
It'd pretty easy to adapt to ammerrukah, just have a flag and yell god bless this amazing country/zomg freedom of speech/platitudes all day long.
You really ought to visit the District of Columbia.

Lebell
3rd August 09, 12:57 PM
Straw man much?

appearantly you do, bringing obama into this.





It's very easy for European countries to believe they have a better attitude towards different ethnic groups when they represent such small parts of their population.


It was this pretend and false attitude about Europe's acceptance towards other ethnicity that has allowed so many fundamental Muslim groups to immigrate their and then causes the tension.

That's why you end up with riots of North African youths in Paris.

The hey "we're multi-cultural" come to our country and keep all your ideals premise was naive, hypocritical and a recipe for disaster.

America might fuck up a lot, be arrogant and ignorant but its still the best place in the world to emigrate to and gives more genuine opportunity to diverse people anywhere.

Europes experiment with emmigration is going to grow into a disaster.

i completely agree with you on this part.
europe is different and not designed to be what the usa is.

Lebell
3rd August 09, 12:58 PM
You really ought to visit the District of Columbia.

is that the north west, with seattle as its capitol?
i'd love to go there once.

MaverickZ
3rd August 09, 01:08 PM
is that the north west, with seattle as its capitol?
i'd love to go there once.
There's a great Cuban place in southeast DC I'll show you.

Cullion
3rd August 09, 01:25 PM
The idea of European diversity and tolerance is mostly a sham that was based on small numbers of immigrants, now the numbers are growing significantly all the fake attitudes are starting to come out.

The UK had Indian MPs in the 19th Century. London had a Chinatown before Toronto existed. West Indian, Indian and Pakistani immigration to the UK began en masse in the 1950s. Our navy was patrolling the Atlantic stopping slavers in the 19th century. We had a female Prime Minister in 1979. And she won that election leading a right-wing culturally conservative party, not with the liberal vote.

You can find footage on youtube of the KKK having a big cheerful rally in the heart of Washingon DC in the 20th century.

Please don't lecture us.

Cullion
3rd August 09, 01:29 PM
None of which were as "good" as the Jews, who had been persecuted since they first committed history's first recorded genocide.
Plus, only idiots would believe in something like "The Gay Agenda", most everyone was or knew Christians at the time, hence the Church getting involved and partying with Hitler. Gypies and communists were poor, whereas Jews were spread all across the economic scale, so you had business owners, bankers, etc., that could be blamed for shit going awry.

Your point would make sense if the number of Jews present in those camps massively outnumbered the other persecuted groups. In some camps Jews only made up a third of the inmates. (No, I'm not claiming there were less than x-million Jews killed. Hitler really just killed a lot of people).

You had to make it to a certain rank as a Nazi before you were allowed to be gay.

Cullion
3rd August 09, 01:33 PM
I don't disagree to the causes especially the war reparations but the idea of the Nazi's rise to power being inevitable bothers me because it takes away from peoples responsibilities.

Nothing is inevitable

The forces I'm talking about tip statistical tendences in a large population or the other. Personal responsibility is something I apply individuals rather than groups. There were lots of very bad individual Germans, and some of good conscience.

MaverickZ
3rd August 09, 01:39 PM
You can find footage on youtube of the KKK having a big cheerful rally in the heart of Washingon DC in the 20th century.
What they don't tell you in the videos is that 75% of the KKK these days is undercover FBI agents.

Cullion
3rd August 09, 01:46 PM
Yeah, these days. I'm thinking of the days when senators were still members.

Artful Dentures
3rd August 09, 02:14 PM
The UK had Indian MPs in the 19th Century. London had a Chinatown before Toronto existed. West Indian, Indian and Pakistani immigration to the UK began en masse in the 1950s. Our navy was patrolling the Atlantic stopping slavers in the 19th century. We had a female Prime Minister in 1979. And she won that election leading a right-wing culturally conservative party, not with the liberal vote.

You can find footage on youtube of the KKK having a big cheerful rally in the heart of Washingon DC in the 20th century.

Please don't lecture us.


Sorry but England doesn't count.

England had D'Israeli (Born Jewish) in the 1800's and was far a head than anyone else.

England's history is pretty unique as an Island and a Naval Empire.

The rest of Europe however didn't have a China town, Indian MP's or significant immigration from anywhere.

The LARGEST ETHNIC GROUP IN EUROPE WERE THE JEWS.


and things didn't work out so well. :hitlerdance:

So you will forgive me for being doubtful about continental Europe's approach to immigration and their policies and attitudes.

TheLordHumungus
3rd August 09, 03:30 PM
What they don't tell you in the videos is that 75% of the KKK these days is undercover FBI agents.

The rest are off duty police enjoying some social time.

Cullion
3rd August 09, 05:31 PM
The rest of Europe however didn't have a China town, Indian MP's or significant immigration from anywhere.

Whilst I appreciate you cutting us limeys some slack, I ought to speak honestly about the rest of Europe.



The LARGEST ETHNIC GROUP IN EUROPE WERE THE JEWS
and things didn't work out so well. :hitlerdance:


We had heathen/pagan genetically-identical gentiles who refused to convert until they were threatened with the sword, or later on, trade restrictions. The gypsy refugees from India got it pretty rough too, and still do.

Are you claiming you had it harder than everybody else?

Yes, I know you had it hard. It's just that your people showed a unique focus on tradition and refused to be bent by the threat of violence. It's not the case that you were the only, or even the most threatened with violence though. At least not until pretty much all the other competition to Christianity had knuckled under. Blame Charlemagne and Constantine. Blame the Roman popes. But don't blame 'Europeans' in general, because that would be to forget that we were beating the shit out of 'each other' too.

Not that your ancestors weren't mostly European too. There are high odds they mostly were.

I think your ancestors pulled off an extraordinary feat.. but they're Europeans as much as the few weird laplanders and modern new agers who try and keep other pre-Christian religions alive are.

How does it feel to be simultaneously complemented and told that your 'boo-hoo' card isn't being respected? ;)

Artful Dentures
3rd August 09, 07:04 PM
Yes Europeans were pretty shitty to each other as well.

Jews more recently and then the whole Serbian / Croatian thing even more recently.

I am not playing any Boo Hoo card, I am stating history. I am also talking about European hypocrisy as it views the States

I am a duel Canadian US citizen, I have lived in Canada my entire life. Canadians can be just and often are just as smarmy, sanctimonious and hypocritical about Americans as Europeans are.

I.E the French could believe they had better attitudes towards black people, when they had almost no black population.

Again 30+ years of emigration from North Africa and you get riots based on system wide discrimination towards the North Africans in France.


Also don't think for a minute I am letting America of the hook for the same things I am just pointing out one thing specifically about Europe in general.

Europeans can be just as ignorant and condescending towards Americans as Americans are towards Europeans

Lebells comments about WWII being viewed in terms of the Holocaust in the US shows that.

Cullion
3rd August 09, 07:21 PM
Yes Europeans were pretty shitty to each other as well.

Jews more recently and then the whole Serbian / Croatian thing even more recently.

Jews arrived in Europe before we started exterminating other Europeans who refused to convert to Christianity.



I am not playing any Boo Hoo card, I am stating history. I am also talking about European hypocrisy as it views the States

There really is no 'European' nation. There are only countries in the continent of Europe. We might, at a pinch, be describe as being nearly as alike as modern arab countries. Except we don't share a common language.

Jews have never lived in Europe in large enough numbers to have been exterminated in the same numbers as European gentiles have exterminated each other.

It's not that I don't love you, I just want you to understand that you aren't special.



I am a duel Canadian US citizen, I have lived in Canada my entire life. Canadians can be just and often are just as smarmy, sanctimonious and hypocritical about Americans as Europeans are.

I.E the French could believe they had better attitudes towards black people, when they had almost no black population.

Again 30+ years of emigration from North Africa and you get riots based on system wide discrimination towards the North Africans in France.

It's not all about the french being shitty to the moroccans and algerians. There's shitty behaviour by them too. I can tell you this though, the French have people of north african descent in cabinet positions of their government in much shorter order than African americans got into US cabinets. North Africans in france are mostly not 'black' anyway, but that's a seperate debate.



Europeans can be just as ignorant and condescending towards Americans as Americans are towards Europeans

Yes, I know that.



Lebells comments about WWII being viewed in terms of the Holocaust in the US shows that.

Did you just generalise Lebell's opinions to 'europeans in general', hmm ?

Artful Dentures
3rd August 09, 09:30 PM
Jews arrived in Europe before we started exterminating other Europeans who refused to convert to Christianity.



Sure ok... I gues...



There really is no 'European' nation. There are only countries in the continent of Europe. We might, at a pinch, be describe as being nearly as alike as modern arab countries. Except we don't share a common language.


No but in the context of the thread drift of European view towards the US I fell confident in lumping you together and generalizing




Jews have never lived in Europe in large enough numbers to have been exterminated in the same numbers as European gentiles have exterminated each other.

It's not that I don't love you, I just want you to understand that you aren't special.



In the terms and context of WWII and being totally exterminated as a people yes we are, only the Gypsies can really complain about the lack of attention for similar problems




It's not all about the french being shitty to the moroccans and algerians. There's shitty behaviour by them too. I can tell you this though, the French have people of north african descent in cabinet positions of their government in much shorter order than African americans got into US cabinets. North Africans in france are mostly not 'black' anyway, but that's a seperate debate.


One of the issues about the French situation towards the North Africans was the French were so secure in their egaltarinaism they did not think any insitiutional interference was needed to help the North Africans integrate into french society.

they were mostly wrong.

Doesn't mean their totally to blame just that to my original point it's easy to be tolerant to special groups when their numbers and influence is very small, but its a lie that gets exposed under greater numbers.

[/quote]

Yes, I know that.



Did you just generalise Lebell's opinions to 'europeans in general', hmm ?[/QUOTE]

True it's deffinitly not fair to use lebell as any type of measuring stick for any other people ever in any context

However that doesn't mean I am wrong I often hear the same things said from Europeans about the US as I hear from Canadians about the US.

It's somewhat the same shit.

Living in both worlds I get to see where their both wrong and ignorant.

I have somewhat similar arguments with my Irish (as in Ireland) in laws about European views of North America and North Americans

WarPhalange
3rd August 09, 11:31 PM
Your point would make sense if the number of Jews present in those camps massively outnumbered the other persecuted groups. In some camps Jews only made up a third of the inmates. (No, I'm not claiming there were less than x-million Jews killed. Hitler really just killed a lot of people).

You had to make it to a certain rank as a Nazi before you were allowed to be gay.

lol @ numbers = percentages

So you had a third of the inmates being Jews, and the rest is everyone else? Okay. Now compare that to the number of Jews that were around at the time. If the proportions turn out to be the same, then I concede and admit that you are right.

honesty
4th August 09, 05:19 AM
One of the things that makes up some of the European countries views on immigrants, that I don't think people have taken into account yet, is a large proportion of those immigrants are from ex-empire countries. France has Algeria and Morocco, Italy has Albania etc. etc. There is a mix of cultural guilt towards the imperial subjugation and ethic hatred against those who seceded. In my limited experience the country I have most experience in outside of the UK, Italy, there is incredible and institutional racism, especially against those countries that are ex-empire, especially the Albanians. I've seen the same with Algerians in France.

I wouldn't say the French were secure in their egalitarianism, I would say they didn't care about the people from North Africa. They saw them as second class citizens.

Lebell
4th August 09, 08:02 AM
look it's really simple, the immigrants were given the chance, they were either too stupid or too lazy, dunno what their problem was, now they shit up ghetto's and hasseling people.

it's really that simple.
in our parlement we have a shitload of members with a non white ethnic background, and we have mosques all over the place, something i would like to see a middle eastern country pull off, or a turkish one.

the people who constantly whine about more rights or freedoms are usually from cultures that don't permit them theirselves.

the usa is slightly less annoying under obama then they were under george w but the holier then thou attitude cos you have a black president is getting old real fast.

f4n4n
4th August 09, 08:03 AM
Just to get this straight GJ, you lived in two countries, that in my humble opinion are quite similar by general standards and now you claim bragging rights because of that? If that is what you are up to, go ahead, I feel confident to take part in this because I guess I've seen my fair share of the world.

What this thread was about and still is, questioning an "established" opinion that some consider a stone cold truth. And just look at how much flag and shit he gets for it. Again, his persona has a big part in this play but that does not change the point.

And I am not even talking about the straw man integration issue. You want a good example of integration, I say Brazil for example, is way ahead of Europe and the US, but that is besides the point.

Lebell
4th August 09, 08:11 AM
whats wrong with my persona?
im totally loveable.

you love me right f4n4n?


f4n4n?

Artful Dentures
4th August 09, 08:25 AM
Just to get this straight GJ, you lived in two countries, that in my humble opinion are quite similar by general standards and now you claim bragging rights because of that? If that is what you are up to, go ahead, I feel confident to take part in this because I guess I've seen my fair share of the world.

What this thread was about and still is, questioning an "established" opinion that some consider a stone cold truth. And just look at how much flag and shit he gets for it. Again, his persona has a big part in this play but that does not change the point.

And I am not even talking about the straw man integration issue. You want a good example of integration, I say Brazil for example, is way ahead of Europe and the US, but that is besides the point.


I think you and Lebell should start your own country called Strawmonia.

I am not bragging about living in two countries.

But some Europeans have the same stereotypical views of the US that Canadians do.

I.E. when Lebell argues that Americans can't be objective or knowledgeable about Europe or European history because they live in North America.

Same old shit.

Lebell
4th August 09, 08:35 AM
I think you and Lebell should start your own country called Strawmonia.

Awesome idea!
I get to be fuhrer, f4n4n can be my goebbels.
and the jews cant play!!!

lolol!




But some Europeans have the same stereotypical views of the US that Canadians do.

I.E. when Lebell argues that Americans can't be objective or knowledgeable about Europe or European history because they live in North America.

Same old shit.

uhm no.
i don't have a stereotype, in my town there are a lot of americans.
they study there for a year and some live here since 3 years.
so i'm actually talking about the educated kind.

some things i keep seeing with americans:

-mindless yapping, its like they cant shut up for one second, the men aswell as the women, though californians seem to be the worst.

-loud talking, like really loud.

-constantly comparing things like ' back in the states'

-always referring to me as every single european/dutchamn: ' you guys used to be a republic right?'

- just generally ignorant remarks:oh my gawd this building is from 1425ad, thats just crazyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

-at the market this couple walked in front of me and they saw a woman touching bread and put it in as bag for some customer and the woman goes: OH MAI GOD DID YOU SEE THAT? SHE TOUCHED IT WITH HER HANDS! THATS DISGUSTING!!!'

everybody was staring at them, i guess they kinda forgot 99% of the dutch speaks pretty good english.

and my alltime favorite: barets girls.
ill explain: when young student girls from america are fresh in lolland they tend to dress as the stereotypical image of a european.
long coats, barets etc.

i swear its the honest truth and its hilarious.

WarPhalange
4th August 09, 12:07 PM
-at the market this couple walked in front of me and they saw a woman touching bread and put it in as bag for some customer and the woman goes: OH MAI GOD DID YOU SEE THAT? SHE TOUCHED IT WITH HER HANDS! THATS DISGUSTING!!!'

Americans do have this mania about using gloves and shit when handling food. Basically they are fucking stupid and don't understand anything about germs and learn everything from Lysol commercials that would tell you to spray your food with it if not for the damn FDA.

Dry food doesn't pick up bacteria very easily. Unless she just wiped her ass with that hand, eating the bread she just touched won't give you AIDS or the T-Virus.

It's just part of our culture here. People automatically assume everyone around them is a walking bio weapon facility and taking a drink from someone else's (your friend's, not some hobo's) glass is going to melt your face. They seem to forget that the human body has this thing called an "immune system".

Artful Dentures
4th August 09, 01:18 PM
Awesome idea!
I get to be fuhrer, f4n4n can be my goebbels.
and the jews cant play!!!

lolol!





uhm no.
i don't have a stereotype, in my town there are a lot of americans.
they study there for a year and some live here since 3 years.
so i'm actually talking about the educated kind.

some things i keep seeing with americans:

-mindless yapping, its like they cant shut up for one second, the men aswell as the women, though californians seem to be the worst.

-loud talking, like really loud.

-constantly comparing things like ' back in the states'

-always referring to me as every single european/dutchamn: ' you guys used to be a republic right?'

- just generally ignorant remarks:oh my gawd this building is from 1425ad, thats just crazyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

-at the market this couple walked in front of me and they saw a woman touching bread and put it in as bag for some customer and the woman goes: OH MAI GOD DID YOU SEE THAT? SHE TOUCHED IT WITH HER HANDS! THATS DISGUSTING!!!'

everybody was staring at them, i guess they kinda forgot 99% of the dutch speaks pretty good english.

and my alltime favorite: barets girls.
ill explain: when young student girls from america are fresh in lolland they tend to dress as the stereotypical image of a european.
long coats, barets etc.

i swear its the honest truth and its hilarious.

Meeting douche bag Americans does not an expert make

Ever think you just generally attract douchebags

resolve
4th August 09, 01:22 PM
Birds of a feather?

Or like attracts like?

Lebell
4th August 09, 01:47 PM
Meeting douche bag Americans does not an expert make

Ever think you just generally attract douchebags

why douchebags?
they just don't know any better.

f4n4n
4th August 09, 02:21 PM
Dude, I don't want to be your goebbels, he sucked balls, can I be a more awesome nazi like rommel?

Lebell
4th August 09, 02:35 PM
only if you invade belgium succesfully.

for the glory of strawmonia!!!

f4n4n
4th August 09, 06:31 PM
Well, I will go and knock on their door, that should be suffice! Did it the last time ;-)


BTW:What are you doing next week, lets say Monday to Thursday? I'm going to be in Hamburg for a Jits competition (if my ruptured eardrum won't prevent it) and I could step by...

Artful Dentures
4th August 09, 07:05 PM
You two talking reminds me of an comedy improv skit I did at a show years ago, in fact it was my greatest comedic moment.

Two of the other other actors somehow ended up Goebels and Hitler going out trick or treating on Halloween.

So of course they knock on a door and I jump up and answer in my best Yiddish accent "Hello Boys"

The entire audience let out this disbelieving shocked groan.

It was awesome

Cullion
4th August 09, 07:52 PM
lol @ numbers = percentages

Every now and then, you flip out and try to assume some kind of dork superiority based on your own misreading of a phrase like 'global average' or 'averaged over the globe' or as above 'lol @ percentages being numbers'

Loops..

Stop it. Percentages are numbers. Make your point directly. Are you really trying to tell somebody with a postgraduate degree from Oxford University's department of mathematics that they don't know what percentages or averages are? are you really that fucking dumb (or more likely) intellectually insecure? really?



So you had a third of the inmates being Jews, and the rest is everyone else? Okay. Now compare that to the number of Jews that were around at the time. If the proportions turn out to be the same, then I concede and admit that you are right.

Why don't you do it for me ? hmm? There's a lot of heat, but relatively little light coming from you. Time you redressed the balance.

Toby Christensen
5th August 09, 02:46 AM
Rommel was cool. He considered getting trounced by the Australians an honour.

Toby Christensen
5th August 09, 02:46 AM
After I had pissed in it, were he still around I'd buy him a drink.

Lebell
5th August 09, 05:27 AM
Well, I will go and knock on their door, that should be suffice! Did it the last time ;-)


BTW:What are you doing next week, lets say Monday to Thursday? I'm going to be in Hamburg for a Jits competition (if my ruptured eardrum won't prevent it) and I could step by...

im still busy, my holiday starts around friday next week.
and i have recently been having a relapse with my back,im going to train tonight to see how my back is holding, but right now im sitting up and have to push out my chest to relievce my lowerback.
fucking horrible.

good luck with the comp though, and for fucks sake, stay away from the Reeperbahn.

ghehe

Lebell
5th August 09, 05:31 AM
Are you really trying to tell somebody with a postgraduate degree from Oxford University's department of mathematics that they don't know what percentages or averages are? are you really that fucking dumb (or more likely) intellectually insecure? really?



HA! caught you!

There is no mathemetics faculty at Oxford university!!!

honesty
5th August 09, 07:55 AM
HA! caught you!

There is no mathemetics faculty at Oxford university!!!

You'd be really pissed off then if you'd applied for this course: http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses/mathematics/mathematics.html - when you turn up in freshers week...

f4n4n
5th August 09, 08:05 AM
Not know any thing of this, having a math faculty and offering a course are two separate issues. The math course can be offered by either the IT dep. the Economics dep. or any other related dep. and they still don't need a match faculty. (Shit was run like this at my old university for several reasons)

honesty
5th August 09, 08:13 AM
well, apart from: http://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/ - they do have a maths department! Plus, I've never heard of that setup as you describe in a UK uni...

Craigypooh
5th August 09, 09:09 AM
They've been teaching maths at Oxford University since the 13th Century.

Lebell
5th August 09, 09:43 AM
13th century huh...geez..how long have you been studying?!

Craigypooh
5th August 09, 11:14 AM
My first hand knowledge doesn't date back quite that far.

Lebell
5th August 09, 11:28 AM
right, you had the crusade thingy first right?

MaverickZ
5th August 09, 01:33 PM
Aw, "maths". I love ye old imperial English. I assume they also have an "Englishes" and a "chemistries" department?

Ajamil
5th August 09, 01:59 PM
Alchemy, actually.

MaverickZ
5th August 09, 02:07 PM
Alchemies?

TheLordHumungus
5th August 09, 02:10 PM
Please, Alchemies.

TheLordHumungus
5th August 09, 02:11 PM
Dammit, beat me to it.

honesty
5th August 09, 02:34 PM
Aw, "maths". I love ye old imperial English. I assume they also have an "Englishes" and a "chemistries" department?

Its mathematics, not mathematic. Therefore its maths, not math. Obviously.

Cullion
5th August 09, 03:33 PM
There is no mathemetics faculty at Oxford university!!!

No, but there is a mathematics faculty.

Toby Christensen
5th August 09, 08:02 PM
It's quite quaint how my English stepdad speaks.

Stupid things are "a nonsense".
Good things are "a happy circumstance".

And so on.

EuropIan
5th August 09, 08:29 PM
I think you and Lebell should start your own country called Strawmonia.

I am not bragging about living in two countries.

But some Europeans have the same stereotypical views of the US that Canadians do.

I.E. when Lebell argues that Americans can't be objective or knowledgeable about Europe or European history because they live in North America.

Same old shit.
I usually have to explain what Denmark is to Americans.
Danes (that would be Europeans to you, but they're all the same, hmmmm?), on average, can generally point out the state you live in on a map with little difficulty.

This is mainly because of the train of thought were America is the center of the universe. Whereas many European nations have been spoon fed at least some americana during their childhood.


P.S. As a dual citizen, do you often find that you have to defend America vs. Canadians and vice-versa?

Artful Dentures
5th August 09, 09:40 PM
P.S. As a dual citizen, do you often find that you have to defend America vs. Canadians and vice-versa?

I don't bother much anymore. it's true that Canadians know way more about the US than Americans do about Canadians

But that doesn't mean there aren't stupid stereo types about Americans that Canadians in our strange passive aggressive self doubting way hold to.

AAAhmed46
27th August 09, 10:40 PM
Couldn't agree more.