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View Full Version : Taser death (Jun 13) Australia - 2,000 more tasers to be issued



Harpy
14th June 09, 07:07 PM
June 13 2009: Australian man dies after being tased a few days ago (Queensland, Australia)

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2009/06/13/58741_hpnews.html


June 15 2009: New South Wales Police announce rollout of 2,000 tasers this year:

http://livenews.com.au/rss-link/nsw-government-defends-taser-rollout/2009/6/14/209905?ref=BPNT


I can't believe the NSW Police force (the state that Sydney is in) is announcing this rollout of tasers despite the findings of the State Ombudsman, the very recent taser death in another state as well as the lack of training and handing out of these potentially lethal weapons to inexperienced members of the police force.

There have been over 400 taser deaths worldwide. I'm confused, on one hand I believe the police should be able to protect themselves and civilians and tasers seem to be a good middle ground. However, touting them as the non-lethal option is just wrong and may even be giving police officers the wrong message in terms of making the decision to use them. Then again, with the rise of violent crime, police need to be equipped to deal with a number of scenarios so tasers and guns seem to be the answer. Or are they?

Kein Haar
14th June 09, 08:26 PM
Please name your preferred alternative less lethal weapon system.

MrBadGuy
14th June 09, 08:31 PM
Rock salt shotguns.

Harpy
14th June 09, 08:41 PM
Kein - I really don't know. I think guns and tasers are fine, just that maybe in the case of the man who died a few days ago, the relatively inexperienced police officer wasn't prepared to deal with such a situation. I was reading that there are cameras attached to the tasers and useage is viewed and documented by senior officers, I actually didn't know this. It seems like a good way to monitor their use.

I was watching 60 Minutes last night and they were interviewing youth in Sydney about knife attacks, carrying weapons for 'self-defence' (all illegal in Australia). It was shocking, I was horrified at CCTV images they showed up knife attacks in the UK. I definitely think police need to be armed and ready to deal with some of these sick fucks (I really can't think of anything else to call them).

If tasers weren't an option, the '400 + taser deaths' could have been many more deaths by gun shot, fatalities on the side of the police, further killings of civilians by the perpetrators/attackers. Who knows?

I guess I just want to know what are the other options out there.

Kein Haar
14th June 09, 09:00 PM
There are only so many things you can do to hurt and incapacitate.

Manual restraint
Manual pain compliance (teh d1m mak)
Impact weapons
Chemical weapons
Electrical weapons
Lethal force

I'd venture to say, and I'm guessing here, that the taser alternative to guns has probably saved more lives than it's ended. Stand-offs against knives would be a quintessential example.

And the ones it ended...I don't know how you can prove those heart attacks and stuff would not have been induced by a wrestling match too. Obesity and/or being coked-up contributes.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th June 09, 09:18 PM
Super-Soakers filled with carbolic acid

Harpy
14th June 09, 09:22 PM
^ Wind factor could mean that innocent bystanders would be burned by the acid.

Kein - just as an aside, what do you think of civilians who carry sharps in the name of self-defence? Lets say someone with no prior record who carries a knife, do these people hinder the police' work? Or is it just good sense these days to arm one self 'just in case'?

Spade: The Real Snake
14th June 09, 10:32 PM
Fuck 'em its Australia.
There are no innocent bystanders.

socratic
14th June 09, 10:44 PM
^ Wind factor could mean that innocent bystanders would be burned by the acid.

Kein - just as an aside, what do you think of civilians who carry sharps in the name of self-defence? Lets say someone with no prior record who carries a knife, do these people hinder the police' work? Or is it just good sense these days to arm one self 'just in case'?

Self defense doesn't get you off on much around here, remember dollface? Your little knife-habit would get you a fine and/or time no exceptions.

jubei33
14th June 09, 11:02 PM
wow, someone must've not liked that guy.

Harpy
14th June 09, 11:27 PM
Self defense doesn't get you off on much around here, remember dollface? Your little knife-habit would get you a fine and/or time no exceptions.

That made me laugh, got me in one. The maximum fine for possession is $550.

I look really innocent and I always carry an apple with me, voila...fruit knife.

kracker
15th June 09, 12:04 AM
Please name your preferred alternative less lethal weapon system.

Consistently looking the other way except in cases of muder, rape, robbery or assault where use of deadly force is justified.

Yiktin Voxbane
15th June 09, 12:28 AM
Bean-bag projectiles , modified to resemble Care bears .

Knave
15th June 09, 04:18 AM
Greetings.


the deceased was a drug addict, who had severe psychological issues, and was well known to police as a violent offender

Nobody should care how or why the guy died.

And anyway, he would've dropped dead after a wrestling match. And still nobody should've cared how or why.

Kein Haar
15th June 09, 04:18 AM
Consistently looking the other way except in cases of muder, rape, robbery or assault where use of deadly force is justified.

DUIs - I personally know two people who've been blasted and killed by these jokers. I've been hit twice. Seems like 95% of crashes between midnight and 5 am are caused by them too. Nope, no passes here. I know it's a romantic idea to follow old geezers home like they did in the 50s...but things are a bit crowded now.

Warrants - Judges orders. One shall take this person into custody. I commit the crime if I don't.

Citizen arrest - Not neccesarily cases of someone else taking someone into physical custody, but someone maintaining victimhood (perhaps being a direct witness too) and me having a lack of independent evidence. I should ignore the customer? Are you kidding? Quick way to be considered a lazy pig...and get fired.

Suspended/Revoked driver's licenses - They used to be suspended a lot for stupid emissions testing. THAT shit I ignored a lot. But for child support violations, no liability insurance, dui, etc....fuck those people.

Criminal damage to property/burglary to motor vehicle/theft from motor vehicle - Almost always a pissed-off victim, and offenders are always serial.

Domestic violence - Depending on state, sometimes an arrest is mandatory if you can determine a primary physical aggressor. This can be kind of a stupid one....it could include adult brothers who don't even live together. IMO, not exactly in the spirit of the law. Most of the time....fuck these people. They think physical discipline of another adult is appropriate? Uh, no. And best of all, since they're probably just drunk fucks who're temporarily angry, at least the arrest lets them both know we're fucking serious....and they typically don't call back.


But simply put, these are the most common things in my neck of the woods, and it doesn't behoove anyone to ignore them.

So, once again, you didn't give any of this much thought whatsoever. I'm not shocked.

And the crime, in and of itself, does not dicate the use of deadly force....moron.

A semblance, A SEMBLANCE of knowledge about these processes WOULD NOT KILL YOU.

JohnnyCache
15th June 09, 05:51 AM
the trick here is that GLARG LIVES SAVED BY TASERS and BLERG PEOPLE KILLED BY POLICE BEING TO STUPID TO USE A POINT AND SHOOT DEVICE

are two seperate issues. Neither really effects the other, they just happen to involve the same piece of hardware.

JohnnyCache
15th June 09, 05:54 AM
Consistently looking the other way except in cases of muder, rape, robbery or assault where use of deadly force is justified.
The only problem with this shining piece of thought is that use of force doesn't occur post facto, it occurs during investigation and arrest. It's the person's momentary conduct that forces police to restrain them, not the caliber of their offense or the importance of the public process occurring. In other words, resisting a drunk driving arrest and resisting a murder arrest really have the same practical upshot for the arresting party.

Also, the level of atrocity of the accusation should have no bearing on the treatment of the unconvicted suspect, because he doesn't merit the treatment until found guilty.

EuropIan
15th June 09, 06:53 AM
Please name your preferred alternative less lethal weapon system.
Drinking competitions

Kein Haar
15th June 09, 09:40 AM
That'd only fly in Australia.

Doritosaurus Chex
15th June 09, 09:42 AM
This is how the cops should operate (minus the whole getting the beat down part):

kHoSREV3bos

EuropIan
15th June 09, 10:09 AM
That'd only fly in Australia.
You don't have the liver.. That's cool.

Zendetta
15th June 09, 04:07 PM
Please name your preferred alternative less lethal weapon system.

Orbital RailGun with AIDS.

alternate, incase of budget cuts: dogs with bees in their mouths so that when they open their mouths to bark they shoot bees at you.

Cullion
15th June 09, 04:24 PM
In a truly civilised society the citizens are armed and the police aren't.

Cullion
15th June 09, 04:36 PM
Well, it worked out ok before didn't it?

Spade: The Real Snake
15th June 09, 05:04 PM
It would be pretty awesome

Zendetta
15th June 09, 05:06 PM
Being able to Tar and Feather various Scoundrels would indeed be great.

jvjim
15th June 09, 05:11 PM
alternate, incase of budget cuts: dogs with bees in their mouths so that when they open their mouths to bark they shoot bees at you.

or ROBOTIC RICHARD SIMMONS!

jvjim
15th June 09, 05:15 PM
No, in all seriousness, police are under heavy duress most of the time from either extreme boredom and useless paper work or from extreme terror and useless support systems. That being said, you guys are the professionals, so you need to help the people you serve understand the shit you go through and the things the criminal justice system MAKES you do. STREET LAW type programs are a great way to do this. Ie. if you can explain what happens during a routine traffic stop/arrest/BAC test/pre-interrogation holding/mirandized interrogation/ rights before, during, and after an arrest or contact with the police, a LOT of this type of shit may stop happening and your lives will be a lot easier.

EuropIan
15th June 09, 05:18 PM
No, in all seriousness, police are under heavy duress most of the time from either extreme boredom and useless paper work or from extreme terror and useless support systems. That being said, you guys are the professionals, so you need to help the people you serve understand the shit you go through and the things the criminal justice system MAKES you do. STREET LAW type programs are a great way to do this. Ie. if you can explain what happens during a routine traffic stop/arrest/BAC test/pre-interrogation holding/mirandized interrogation/ rights before, during, and after an arrest or contact with the police, a LOT of this type of shit may stop happening and your lives will be a lot easier.
Isn't that jsut a long winded way of explaining to people not to tell police officers that they, John Q. Public, pay their salary and therefore are the boss?

Spade: The Real Snake
15th June 09, 05:22 PM
If I accuse someone of stealing my horse I can chase them up to 50 miles or the state line and shoot and kill them.

WIN!

jvjim
15th June 09, 05:25 PM
Isn't that jsut a long winded way of explaining people not to tell police officers that they, John Q. Public, pay their salary and therefore are the boss?

EDIT: sorry, didn't read that not

No. In fact, in most place Johny Law is VERY much the boss. HOWEVER, there are some things that can help make every one's life MUCH easier. Things like knowing that STFUing can really help you until your mom can higher an ambulance chaser. Or that not signing a ticket/taking a BAC test WILL likely result in your going to jail. Or that if you so much a TOUCH cop for any reason (with the exception of I think Texas) your life is fucked for at least a couple of years. My point, if people knew that the cops can't lock you up for more than 24 hours without good reason, that most people fuck themselve over in confrontations with the police, that saying "Yes sir/no sir, yes ma'am/ no ma'am" can go a long way, Kein and his ilk won't have to use the taser quite so often becasue people will know their rights and their obligations when they encounter the police.

Zendetta
15th June 09, 05:26 PM
Waste a bullet on a rustler?

I say shootin's too good for 'em.

EuropIan
15th June 09, 05:30 PM
I think I posted a lecture about that.

The title was "Don't talk to the police, ever" Oh, wait, here it is. (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1330891#post1330891)

jvjim
15th June 09, 05:34 PM
That guy has the correct.

EuropIan
15th June 09, 05:45 PM
I'm still terrified of that lone policeman taking the law into his own hands.

http://iconsoffright.com/news/maniaccop.jpg

socratic
15th June 09, 06:13 PM
I'm still terrified of that lone policeman taking the law into his own hands.

http://english.cri.cn/mmsource/images/2005/09/09/new-police-story.jpg

socratic
15th June 09, 06:21 PM
http://moviestudio.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/flash-point-dragondynasty.jpg
RqBCEfmH6XU

Dark Helmet
15th June 09, 07:29 PM
The answer is : Phasers on stun

SFGOON
15th June 09, 07:42 PM
Funny thing about "taser deaths" just because a cracked out psychotic freak smoked crack and freaked out doesn't mean the tazer is what killed him. Lots of these guys just suddenly fucking die after fighting 5+ police for 20 minutes because they've outrun the limits of their metabolism and their cardiopulmonary system can't deliver enough oxygen to their brains.

Medical science can't make heads or tales of it because you just don't see that kind of shit very often - it's undocumented. The only historical examples I can think of are John Henry and Phillipidies. It looks just like cardiac arrest, and we all know minute electric currents are capable of causing cardiac arrest! So, it must have been the taser!

It had nothing to do with being a cracked out freak then smoking crack and freaking out until you die of exhaustion. That's the kind of thing that only happens to a cracked out freak.

Seriously, if you ever see a naked, sweaty guy running around at night - get the fuck away.

Dark Helmet
15th June 09, 08:29 PM
Seriously, if you ever see a naked, sweaty guy running around at night - get the fuck away.
Wow! If you added a cock ring and a 12 inch pink cock you would have pictured me completely.

By the way 'goon. You know you couldn't run away from me, right my little bitch?

Ajamil
15th June 09, 09:43 PM
Seriously, if you ever see a naked, sweaty guy running around at night - get the fuck away.

I've been that guy. It's not always crack, but I can pretty much guarantee the ones NOT that way because of crack still want you to get the fuck away.

As for other non-lethal options, I don't think there are any that could effectively replace tasers. At least not for what I would think to be a routine arrest.

Disorienting lights? Nasty smells? You'd have to protect the arresting cop too.

Sticky foam? Friction reducing fluids? Too much possibility for unintended results.

Extreme noise? Not a chance in public areas and again you have to protect the cop from it.

Antifa
15th June 09, 10:03 PM
There are only so many things you can do to hurt and incapacitate.

Manual restraint
Manual pain compliance (teh d1m mak)
Impact weapons
Chemical weapons
Electrical weapons
Lethal force

I'd venture to say, and I'm guessing here, that the taser alternative to guns has probably saved more lives than it's ended. Stand-offs against knives would be a quintessential example.

And the ones it ended...I don't know how you can prove those heart attacks and stuff would not have been induced by a wrestling match too. Obesity and/or being coked-up contributes.

My serious problem with tasers, and a point you may well concede, is that the whole thing invites abuse.

When you make an arguement against tasers, the taser advocate will point out a continium of force and compare the use of the taser to the use of ones sidearm.

Although somewhat problematic, this is not the actual key problem I see. I see tasers begin now to replace not the side arm, but the manual pain compliance. I think the design of the taser, the stop and apply it again nature of jolts, and the invisible nature of electrical current are the root of the problem.

I believe that officers are invited by conditioning to use a taser in a way that I think is abusive when that same officer would not use a impact weapon in the same way on the suspect in the same situation.

I think the nature of the tool and the nature of the situation (adreneline) make this a problem in a situation where an officer can hurt the fuck out of somebody before the realize it or even think that they want to stop.

I'll leave out all other arguements for now.

I'm also busy so I'm gonna be sparse on this thread (and others) till next week.

Ajamil
15th June 09, 11:43 PM
My serious problem with tasers, and a point you may well concede, is that the whole thing invites abuse.
I'd have to see compelling evidence first, but I'd agree with you there.


Although somewhat problematic, this is not the actual key problem I see. I see tasers begin now to replace not the side arm, but the manual pain compliance.
You think the injuries and problems invited by manual pain compliance should come before the option to tase? There are situations where I might agree, but I'm thinking a lot of times the risk of really hurting someone is when you wrestle them to the ground.

Perhaps I don't know enough about tasing procedures. Is there a button to stop the current on a taser? If so, how long are cops trained to apply curent? If not, how do you stop current in a person? Cops are required to get tased, so while that won't weed out sadists, it will give people an empathy with their tased person. It's not like they don't know how much it hurts to get this done to you.


I believe that officers are invited by conditioning to use a taser in a way that I think is abusive when that same officer would not use a impact weapon in the same way on the suspect in the same situation.
Ooh, I like this. Nicely concise and coherent. No argument.


I'm also busy so I'm gonna be sparse on this thread (and others) till next week.

Aww, this was gettin interesting.

Antifa
16th June 09, 07:12 AM
Perhaps I don't know enough about tasing procedures. Is there a button to stop the current on a taser? If so, how long are cops trained to apply curent? If not, how do you stop current in a person? Cops are required to get tased, so while that won't weed out sadists, it will give people an empathy with their tased person. It's not like they don't know how much it hurts to get this done to you.


Taser has 2 modes of operation:

Contact mode: Taser is placed in contact with arrestee's flesh. Taser is discharged. This discharge lasts 5 seconds. The taser recharges for 5 seconds and then may be discharged again.

"Pistol" mode: Cop fires taser, 2 small darts attached to wires strike target. The darts are propelled by preasurized inert gas. Taser discharges for 5 seconds. Taser recharges for 5 seconds. Taser may then be discharged again.

So basically, in any situation a person is almost guaranteed to take at least 2 jolts. Nobody is going to down-cycle out of panic mode in 10 seconds and even take their finger off the magic button in that time.

Now, if you combine that with the fact that there are people in the world who lack the empathy to not shock somebody that extra one or two times just for kicks and grins and you'll see my point.


When I say that they are replacing impact weapons and HTH technique I mean like this:



PoliceTaser 6-Year-Old

Fox News | November 12, 2004

MIAMI � Police used a stun gun on a 6-year-old boy in his principal's office because he was wielding a piece of glass and threatening to hurt himself, officials said Thursday.

The boy, who was not identified, was shocked with 50,000 volts on Oct. 20 at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School.

Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass, holding a security guard back.

When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his hand.

The officers talked to the boy without success. When the boy cut his own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser ( search ) and another grabbed him to prevent him from falling, police said.

He was treated and taken to a hospital, where he was committed for psychiatric evaluation.

"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him from hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The Miami Herald


I mean come on. You really need that to stop a 6 year old? Really?

If the taser wasnt in the room the kid would have had the glass wrestled away from him no doubt.

These things lead to the careless, sloppy and sadistic because of the nature of the device as much as the nature of police, policing, conditioning and training.

Okay...

See you kids later

SFGOON
16th June 09, 08:21 AM
Honestly, the taser was the best thing for that little brat. It allowed police to stop him from slitting his own throat without approaching him too closely. He was only hit after he cut himself It was the safest way to end the incident and a decent, even compassionate, use of force. Baton strikes and wristy-twisties can break fingers and wristies.

They even caught the kid on his way down.

Antifa, did you know that all tasers have computerized audit logs that indicate when a taser was fired and how many times as well? Some even have cameras built in to them. This data is discoverable, subpeonable and has been used to both convict and exonerate officers of charges of excessive force.

Also, that 50k volts is pushing .025 amps. It's very "low current."

If an officer points a pistol at a suspect, they'll pretty much know they're not going to get shot and won't voluntarily comply. This creates a nasty situation. I draw a taser on someone and they're instantly compliant. They know I'll use it and they don't fucking want it.

I still get grilled by my supervisor as to why I even presented the taser at all and have to file a use of force report for simply un-holstering it.

I'm telling you man, they're a great weapon and they do a lot to enhance public safety. Way better than hitting someone, way better than wrestling a suicidal person who could take my pistol away, way better than OC which is horrifically painful and can't be washed off.

Comparitively speaking, the taser is humane. It's almost like cheating at being a cop.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th June 09, 08:38 AM
I had to talk my wife out of buying a pink Taser this weekend while we were at the Bass Pro Shop, cuz she might use it on me.

Kein Haar
16th June 09, 10:26 AM
So basically, in any situation a person is almost guaranteed to take at least 2 jolts.

That doesn't logically follow what you said. In fact, it doesn't logically follow the correct explanation of the mechanical operation either.


Now, if you combine that with the fact that there are people in the world who lack the empathy to not shock somebody that extra one or two times just for kicks and grins and you'll see my point.

You don't understand the mechanics of how most arrests are made.


I think the nature of the tool and the nature of the situation (adreneline) make this a problem in a situation where an officer can hurt the fuck out of somebody before the realize it or even think that they want to stop.

What do you mean by "hurt"?

FickleFingerOfFate
16th June 09, 11:02 AM
I had to talk my wife out of buying a pink Taser this weekend while we were at the Bass Pro Shop, cuz she might use it on me.


What's her e-mail address,

I have a few arguments for the opposing viewpoint.....

Spade: The Real Snake
16th June 09, 02:34 PM
Ask Sochin.
He is constantly hassling her.

FickleFingerOfFate
16th June 09, 02:35 PM
Cool!

I haz Sochin ahn Phasebuk

Yiktin Voxbane
17th June 09, 08:54 PM
In data recovered from the gun (OP) , it was discharged more than 2 Doz. times .

Wounded Ronin
17th June 09, 09:20 PM
I've been that guy. It's not always crack, but I can pretty much guarantee the ones NOT that way because of crack still want you to get the fuck away.

As for other non-lethal options, I don't think there are any that could effectively replace tasers. At least not for what I would think to be a routine arrest.

Disorienting lights? Nasty smells? You'd have to protect the arresting cop too.

Sticky foam? Friction reducing fluids? Too much possibility for unintended results.

Extreme noise? Not a chance in public areas and again you have to protect the cop from it.

Flexible baton rounds! Fuck yeah!

kracker
17th June 09, 09:44 PM
Why don't they just use tranquilizer darts? Seems to me like that would solve the taser problem right away.

Kein Haar
17th June 09, 09:47 PM
You want cops to inject people with drugs?

Harpy
17th June 09, 09:49 PM
Are you serious? It takes some time for a dose to work and is actually going as far as using a drug on a person without knowing their medical history, alcohol and medication or drugs they may have imbibed etc. Very dangerous to just go shooting people with tranqs.

Ajamil
17th June 09, 10:54 PM
Flexible baton rounds! Fuck yeah!

Rounds? As in ammo? You mean like these?
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/images/200/F/25/F2515.jpg

jubei33
17th June 09, 11:03 PM
My serious problem with tasers, and a point you may well concede, is that the whole thing invites abuse.


you can say that about just about anything, though; drugs, guns, food, wiffleball bats. They've used the same argument against the legalization of pot for many years.

Don't get me wrong excessive/abusive use is an issue to be concerned with, but the substance of the argument lies with intent. Like you said there are sociopaths who could do it for kicks, but can you really say that's the case with the suicidal lad? Tazers are hands down the less dangerous alternative to wrestling a knife out of someone's hands, especially if they're wanting to hurt themselves.


Why don't they just use tranquilizer darts? Seems to me like that would solve the taser problem right away.
You know I was going to describe the monumental difficulties of finding a safe dosage for a population of people, even simply based on averages being a task, but really you are just too fucking dumb to talk with in an adult fashion.

Even then, after the enactment of such a perilous, foolhardy piece of legislation, don't pretend for a minute that it would solve the issues you have with 'the man'

bob
17th June 09, 11:11 PM
All cops should be taught Dim Mak no-touch knockouts.

SFGOON
18th June 09, 07:10 AM
Oh - I personally use the systema-soul-devour on non-compliant suspects.

The guy is resisting and there is a momentary cascade of light and I'm all like "NOM NOM NOM."

Then we calmly separate, I politely ask my fellow officers to please stand back, and the suspect gets up and calmly walks away with a deadpan expression. Some reporters or college kids or hippies usually run up to him and ask "Hey man, what the fuck was that? What did that pig do to you, man? You feelin' okay?"

The suspect replies, without emotion, "I don't feel anything at all."

Is this acceptable to you, kracker?

bob
18th June 09, 08:13 AM
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25653451-952,00.html

bob
18th June 09, 08:17 AM
So it looks like they basically stood there and tasered the guy continuously for several minutes. What's up with that?

Ajamil
18th June 09, 10:20 AM
He said there were no guidelines for police regarding how many times a Taser could be used to subdue an offender.
That IS worrisome. If not for the number of times it can be used, is there a guideline for when you're supposed to stop using it? Like the offender is passed out in a pool of urine and vomit?


``The standard police issue has just under 200 discharges available in it. That's extremely high. How comfortable would you be if police were issued with weapons with 1000 rounds in it, or with pepper spray cannisters like fire extinguishers?''
I wouldn't feel comfortable, but then neither would the po-po with a fire extinguisher and a barrel drum on his semi-auto attached to his waist.


Assoc Prof Bondy said while police officers performed an admirable role for society, there seemed to be a tendency towards ``gearing up'' with more and more armoury, rather than relying on verbal and other skills to defuse a situation.

That's what we said! Sort of.


Meanwhile, police Assistant Commissioner Ann Lewis and the police union are in dispute over why officers used guns, not Tasers, to stop another man at Rockhampton this week.

The Courier-Mail was told officers at the 24-hour siege were instructed to shoot rather than Taser the armed man, 32, because he suffered serious medical conditions and using a Taser could put his life in danger.
Counter-intuitive, but it makes sense. "We might kill him, better use a gun."


Ms Lewis also said there was a possibility an officer may have been hit if a Taser had been used on the Rockhampton man, which forced police to use guns on him.
That makes NO sense to me. If there's a possibility of hitting an officer, why would you choose bullets? Are guns more accurate than tasers?

FickleFingerOfFate
18th June 09, 10:26 AM
That makes NO sense to me. If there's a possibility of hitting an officer, why would you choose bullets? Are guns more accurate than tasers?


Yes, especially if you are at the verge of, or out of, range.

A pistol works very well at 40-50 ft. most Tasers, not so much.

Kein Haar
18th June 09, 10:29 AM
Someone needs to find a better poster child for the tragedy of taser deaths.

Not methed-up, blood-soaked, weapon wielding, violent-criminal-history guys.

I would sooner let him ride for 2 minutes rather than risk getting some blood-borne disease. Oh yes, I would.

I'm there to help deal with an existing problem. I didn't cause it, and I'm not going to permanently pay for it...if I can help it.

If piggy gets injured (even if it's a broken finger or a turned ankle), tax-payers still bear the burden of his salary and medical costs while he sits around and does nothing.

Spade: The Real Snake
18th June 09, 11:53 AM
So it looks like they basically stood there and tasered the guy continuously for several minutes. What's up with that?
It's like the cops version of Whack-A-Mole

kracker
18th June 09, 12:37 PM
So it looks like they basically stood there and tasered the guy continuously for several minutes. What's up with that?

I assume you're looking for an answer more sophisticated than, "they're a bunch of sadistic fuckholes."

Kein Haar
18th June 09, 01:05 PM
I assume you're ignoring this part:

said the deceased was a drug addict, who had severe psychological issues, and was well known to police as a violent offender.

The tragic incident unfolded when Mr Galeano entered his partner's duplex on the usually quiet Green St early yesterday.

A front window was shattered, while blood was smeared across two small windows at the back of the unit.

It was understood the woman had cowered in the house for an hour before police were called to a `violent disturbance' about 2.40am.

An ambulance responded at roughly the same time.

A first year female constable and a male senior constable from Ayr Police station arrived at the address about 10
minutes later.

Mr Leavers said police were confronted with an aggressive, blood-covered man, who was armed with a metal bar.


Yes, you are. Good job. Keep up the good work.

You should write a letter to the editor and tell them about your tranquilizer dart idea.

FickleFingerOfFate
18th June 09, 02:10 PM
I assume you're looking for an answer more sophisticated than, "they're a bunch of sadistic fuckholes."


Only if you would like to be considered more than a dim-witted, reactionary, jack-off, who expresses his opinion blissfully unhindered by facts and reality.

jubei33
18th June 09, 04:28 PM
I've changed my mind. I've got a patent working on police issue blowdart guns. I found a great synthesis for curare and I'm going to make a fortune. Sidestepping the whole issue of proper dosage----WTF! I'M GONNA BE RICH B, DOLLA< DOLLA BILL

GuiltySpark
18th June 09, 11:08 PM
In the military, we usually deal with full metal jacket bullets.
On our side because it's illegal to use expanding ammunition and on the other side because it's expensive to use hollow point and soft point ammo.

[Full metal jacket- bullet hits you and leaves a hole relitively the same size as it makes going in.
Soft point or hollow point it enters the sde of a pen and exits the size of a soft ball or bigger]

Most of the wounds I've seen/treated have been from full metal jackets. I've seen a few from expanding ammunition and it's fucking nasty.
Police use expanding ammunition.

The argument of Taser vs bullet is just out of the question.
Tasers sometimes kill people with existing heart condititions. I don't know the stats but say 400 people have died from taser related incidents, paint that against the thousands (or more) of incidents where tasers incapicatated someone breaking the law or being an asshole.

No one in the right mind would want to be shot with a hollow point .40 cal round over a friggin taser, end of story.
Tasers aren't non-lethal, their less lethal. Their still a hell of a lot beter than putting lead into someone (In so far as someone being a moron over an actual threat)