PDA

View Full Version : News that is not good: N. Korea sentences two US journalists to 12 years hard labor.



Stick
8th June 09, 12:51 AM
In a bid to never be ronery again, Kim Jong Il- henceforth refered to by his street monicher K-Il- has decided to sentence to American journalists to 12 years hard labor for acts of espionage against his great nation; some suspect they were caught photographing evidence of K-Il's failure to keep the power on after sunset (http://www.willisms.com/archives/asianight.gif).

Euna Lee and Laura Ling, sister to journalist Lisa Ling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsZtBu5yiHY), were taken by DPRK troops on the China-NK border on March 17. The two intrepid reporters were covering the flight of refugees fleeing K-Il's awesome pad (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Ryugyong_Hotel_-_May_2005.JPG) for the relative freedom, safety and prosperity of China. Details of their capture remain unclear.

The speedy trial- which no one outside the DPRK actually saw- comes in the midst of rising tension over NK nuclear weapons testing- read, pissing contest. As the US has no real diplomatic relations with K-Il's crew, all attempts at negotiation for the release fo Ms. Lee and Ms. Ling were done through intermediaries; great job, intermediaries!

That's not really fair, it's not Sweden's fault K-Il's a dick.

K-Il's entourage has informed the world that it has every intention of continuing to blast off nukes when and where it feels like it. In the face of threats of international sanction, NK has stated they would treat any such economic measures as an act of war. Whether or not this means NK will send it's million man army marching into South Korea, open up with its mess of artillery, and slaughter hundred of thousands if not millions of their civilian relatives to the south remains to be seen.

Suffice it to say, this is not good.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090531/as-koreas-nuclear/images/ab9b0834-07e3-4e97-b7dd-ec3ffbef94cb.jpg
Good luck, ladies.

Check out the NY Time article. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/08/world/asia/08north.html)

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th June 09, 12:58 AM
I am anti-war.
He is really pushing it.

Tanhalen21
8th June 09, 01:03 AM
Agree^

theotherserge
8th June 09, 01:12 AM
The journalists work for Current TV, which is Al Gore's media project. Funny that the king of blowhards has been silent on this.

It was a really fucking stupid thing to do, like N Korea, Myanmar and Somalia are really not into you showing up and playing 60 Minutes in their house. I'm amazed that they expected "fair" treatment there.

Sun Wukong
8th June 09, 01:35 AM
Good god, why send women into that kind of a dangerous situation? What fools.

Hard labor... in NORTH KOREA. Might as well sentence them to be gang raped and to have their faces bashed in until they're unrecognizable.

elipson
8th June 09, 01:39 AM
The journalists work for Current TV, which is Al Gore's media project. Funny that the king of blowhards has been silent on this.

It was a really fucking stupid thing to do, like N Korea, Myanmar and Somalia are really not into you showing up and playing 60 Minutes in their house. I'm amazed that they expected "fair" treatment there.

Beat me to the punch.

Whoever would have thought being a journalist in NORTH KOREA might be dangerous?

socratic
8th June 09, 01:41 AM
If memory serves you can go to N K if you're a journalist, but you've got to register with Big Brother so they can restrict your movements and whatnot.

Fuck N K and fuck K J I.

elipson
8th June 09, 02:32 AM
North Korea needs a complete civil war, or a well placed military coup with a non-dickhead leader.

And I'm not being sarcastic in any way. That's the only way that country is going to stop being the shithole of the planet.

WarPhalange
8th June 09, 02:36 AM
I don't understand two things:

1) Why is assassination so frowned upon? This guy is clearly a dickhead, like you said, and the only way to change that is to get rid of him permanently.

2) Why are all of his lackeys following him? It wouldn't be hard to just put a tiger in his bedroom or something. I am having trouble believing that all of these people actually think he's a good leader.

Tanhalen21
8th June 09, 02:37 AM
2) Why are all of his lackeys following him? It wouldn't be hard to just put a tiger in his bedroom or something. I am having trouble believing that all of these people actually think he's a good leader.

This is a pretty good point. If someone assassinated him, would anyone really give a shit?

WarPhalange
8th June 09, 02:38 AM
I imagine there would be a power vacuum, but I am pretty damn sure that whoever fills it will more than make up for any conflict that the power vacuum caused.

Tanhalen21
8th June 09, 02:45 AM
True, it'd be pretty hard to find someone more nutshit insane than KJ

Keith
8th June 09, 02:52 AM
True, it'd be pretty hard to find someone more nutshit insane than KJ
Didn't his son at one point want to start an anti-terrorism squad headed up by Jean Claude Van Dame?

Robot Jesus
8th June 09, 02:53 AM
china needs to slap a bitch, they are the only ones who can do it.

also CNN said that the punishment was 12 years involving labour.

could be hard labour, but they said that it could also mean other things. k-il is known for the hoes at his pad, and for kidnapping a director to make him a movie.

of course the real issue dealing with a despot is that the punishment will probably change with his mood.

I'd fact check this before i posted it, but i need to get to sleep.

Tanhalen21
8th June 09, 02:53 AM
Didn't his son at one point want to start an anti-terrorism squad headed up by Jean Claude Van Dame? I can't tell if that's a joke or not. I'd believe it if he's related to Kim Jong Il, though.

Keith
8th June 09, 02:59 AM
I can't tell if that's a joke or not. I'd believe it if he's related to Kim Jong Il, though.
I tried looking for the article but there's too much other stuff that comes up to sort through. But no, I wasn't joking.

Robot Jesus
8th June 09, 03:06 AM
seconded on half remembered article.

my memory is cloudy, but I believe the reaction was bemusement.

Tanhalen21
8th June 09, 03:06 AM
I tried looking for the article but there's too much other stuff that comes up to sort through. But no, I wasn't joking.

So the insanity is hereditary.

WarPhalange
8th June 09, 03:09 AM
seconded on half remembered article.

Third. Also half-remembered...

Tanhalen21
8th June 09, 03:13 AM
This is what marijuana does to the masses.

nifoc
8th June 09, 04:36 AM
I remember a few years back, K- Il- (or if it was his son) was reported to have gone 18 holes in golf on only 19 (shots, hits, whatever they're called in golf). This was said to be "slightly better than his average round".

Anyone who tries to pass that of as believable news could probably come up with the idea of having JCVD as leader of your anti-terrorist squad as well.

danno
8th June 09, 05:26 AM
even if cocksucker No.1 were to die, there will still be a shitdickstorm of death and destruction. any changes to the current situation will mean that some bad things are going to happen.

socratic
8th June 09, 05:50 AM
Considering that all of his staff are probably as apeshit/power hungry commie-fascists like him, assassinating him wouldn't make things better. People like Kim Jong get where they are by controlling who gets the food and resources and when, and I bet a whole lot more people would die/starve while the power vacuum sorts itself out and whoever's leader renegotiates with China.

Really, you have to kill him, his staff (I believe his son is actually less of a nutbar than dad is- more westernised, which is why he likes JCVD so much, but hey, let's ice him too just in case) and every military officer of sufficient rank to be a threat.

Sun Wukong
8th June 09, 08:09 AM
I remember a few years back, K- Il- (or if it was his son) was reported to have gone 18 holes in golf on only 19 (shots, hits, whatever they're called in golf). This was said to be "slightly better than his average round".

Anyone who tries to pass that of as believable news could probably come up with the idea of having JCVD as leader of your anti-terrorist squad as well.
Awesome. I'm going to remember to take armed koreans with me to the golf course.

"Mark it down as an eagle, imperial golf referee"

"Sir, that was a triple bogey."

"Caddy, you may fire when ready."

BLAM

"Caddy, front and center. You are now promoted to the rank of imperial golf referee. Mark it down as an eagle and fetch me a drink with a little umbrella in it. make the other golfers clap until the body is removed from the court and shoot the first person that stops regardless of when they do."

jnp
8th June 09, 08:59 AM
even if cocksucker No.1 were to die, there will still be a shitdickstorm of death and destruction. any changes to the current situation will mean that some bad things are going to happen.
I don't know if the "shitdickstorm of death and destruction" can be avoided at this point. It's like someone put a petulant five year old in charge of a country.

From Reuters:

His eldest son, Kim Jong-nam, told Japanese television over the weekend that he would not be surprised to see his brother take over. If he does, it would be the third generation to head the world's first communist dynasty.
Communist dynasty? File that under phrases I never thought I'd hear.

theotherserge
8th June 09, 09:07 AM
Beat me to the punch.

Whoever would have thought being a journalist in NORTH KOREA might be dangerous?
meh, this one time, I went I into the Bronx in a KKK gown and everything was fine

danno
8th June 09, 09:19 AM
I don't know if the "shitdickstorm of death and destruction" can be avoided at this point.

yep, that's what i mean.

EuropIan
8th June 09, 10:24 AM
Ian G.R.'s Video documentary service brings you "Friends of Kim" a documentary about some crazy westerners who support the dear leader.
As always, it is hidden in the spoiler to save page space.


C76HqPaA6kw

9G3jONerCeo

CmRIta75c_o

ve_dJtHf8AQ

7dVz2pph4gs

cyeAVylt5LQ

M-43MB5_QKQ

YjkwQPptxPI

HappyOldGuy
8th June 09, 10:33 AM
The journalists work for Current TV, which is Al Gore's media project. Funny that the king of blowhards has been silent on this.

It was a really fucking stupid thing to do, like N Korea, Myanmar and Somalia are really not into you showing up and playing 60 Minutes in their house. I'm amazed that they expected "fair" treatment there.

I'm pretty sure they expected exactly what they got if they got caught.

Brave ladies.




Also, the king of blowhards was almost certainly told to keep his fucking yap shut to keep the situation from getting worse.

KO'd N DOA
8th June 09, 10:42 AM
Perhaps these Two were the assassins? He might just have taken the bait.

WarPhalange
8th June 09, 11:00 AM
meh, this one time, I went I into the Bronx in a KKK gown and everything was fine

Yeah, but that's because you look so pretty in it that it was a shame to hurt you.

Scrapper
8th June 09, 11:08 AM
Substitute "Saddam Hussein" or "Slobodan Milosovic" for "Kim Jong-Il" and it's the nineties all over again.

jkdbuck76
8th June 09, 11:32 AM
They are looking for an incident so that K-Il can name his son as successor.

I hope these reporters don't get hard labor for 12 years. I'd like to see them come home. My understanding is that they thought they were still in China, that the border is not marked very well and that they ended up in NK by mistake.

What will it take for Obama to decide its high time to curb stomp NK?

Ajamil
8th June 09, 11:42 AM
Awesome. I'm going to remember to take armed koreans with me to the golf course.

"Mark it down as an eagle, imperial golf referee"

"Sir, that was a triple bogey."

"Caddy, you may fire when ready."

BLAM

"Caddy, front and center. You are now promoted to the rank of imperial golf referee. Mark it down as an eagle and fetch me a drink with a little umbrella in it. make the other golfers clap until the body is removed from the court and shoot the first person that stops regardless of when they do."
Kingpin Jong-Il

6675


Substitute "Saddam Hussein" or "Slobodan Milosovic" for "Kim Jong-Il" and it's the nineties all over again. Are you saying they shouldn't have been removed from power or that we shouldn't have done it with a war? Actually, don't let me force you into limited options. What do you mean exactly by this, because I certainly see the connections.

elipson
8th June 09, 12:59 PM
Somewhere in the North Korean military there is an officer or officers who doesn't buy the party line. And eventually they will be smart enough to position themselves in a place of power and bring this shithole down.

I hope anyways. dictators don't break without bloodshed. The only question is whether it's internal or external.

Trek
8th June 09, 01:44 PM
I am not a friend of starting wars but uh...

I really want to stab The Chonger in the face with my boot.

theotherserge
8th June 09, 01:45 PM
I'm pretty sure they expected exactly what they got if they got caught.

Brave ladies.


Makes sense. They're getting more international attention now than any documentary that [email protected] Mill Valley Film Festival/et al ever would

Although, I'm sure there are some UN politicos&others who are pretty pissed at how this is mucking up the "Nuke-talks" since the girls are now being seen as leverage by the friends of F.A.G.G.

I wonder if they won't be just sacrificed to the labor camps for fucking with things.


Also, the king of blowhards was almost certainly told to keep his fucking yap shut to keep the situation from getting worse.
He probably has the same muzzle on him that Biden does...

theotherserge
8th June 09, 01:51 PM
Somewhere in the North Korean military there is an officer or officers who doesn't buy the party line. And eventually they will be smart enough to position themselves in a place of power and bring this shithole down.

I hope anyways. dictators don't break without bloodshed. The only question is whether it's internal or external.
You forget, my dear colleauge, that Stalin died peacefully-asleep, after staying up late with his close friends (people he hadn't yet killed/Gulag'd) drinking, eating, revelling in their time&such.

Not long after that, we almost had WWIII. Sometimes the ~mostly~ predictable nutjob-dictator in handis worth the two in the bush...so to speak.

Cullion
8th June 09, 01:52 PM
I don't know much about the situation in Korea. Am I correct in thinking that China + artillery aimed at South Korea are the reasons that the US doesn't simply threaten light Pyongyang up like a Christmas tree ?

Feryk
8th June 09, 02:06 PM
Right now, China is also pissed with Kim Jong Il. The international community knows they have to deal with him eventually, but it's all a game of brinksmanship.

If China invades to kill him, then South Korea will freak out, and the US will be FORCED to put a ton more troops into South Korea.

If the US kills him, then China freaks out, not wanting the US army anywhere near their borders (again), not to mention losing an 'ally' in their sphere of influence.

KJI knows this, and postures and behaves with impunity. As long as he doesn't actually invade anyone or blow anything up, he can do what he likes. It makes him look stronger to his generals at home (who are lackeys, but dangerous ones), and keeps them from organizing themselves.

Personally, I'd like to see Russia punch his ticket. That would really put a wrench into the whole region.

Scrapper
8th June 09, 02:08 PM
Kingpin Jong-Il

6675

Are you saying they shouldn't have been removed from power or that we shouldn't have done it with a war? Actually, don't let me force you into limited options. What do you mean exactly by this, because I certainly see the connections.

All three are ruthless totalitarian dictators enjoying unlimited personal power withing their domains. They repeatedly thumb their nose at the international community and dare anyone to attack them.

Ultimately, one of two things will happen:

1-Since the international community is notoriously gun-shy, they will wait until 29384652890 UN resolutions and international economic sanctions have been ignored before somebody (probably the US) will come up with a reason (veracity of said reason notwithstanding)compelling enough to justify a war. The usual suspects will rally up and a brief (by historical standards) military incursion will reveal a country outwardly prosperous, but actually destitute and barely hanging on by it's last fingers.

Then whichever country led the charge will have to spend a lengthy period and trillions of dollars trying to repair the damage. How history remembers these events is a coin flip.

2-The international community will continue to bang their fists, wag their fingers, and engage in a high-energy bout of teeth gnashing. Resolutions and sanctions will fly, goodwill ambassadors will travel, and human rights groups will have rally's. Eventually, Kim will either die and start eh cycle over with his successor, or he will invade south Korea and facillitate scenario one.

Which is basically exactly what happened with Milosovic and Hussein. If you omit the names and just looka t the resume's, it's impossible to tell them apart.

elipson
8th June 09, 02:15 PM
I don't know much about the situation in Korea. Am I correct in thinking that China + artillery aimed at South Korea are the reasons that the US doesn't simply threaten light Pyongyang up like a Christmas tree ?

North Korea has a standing army of 2 million and a reserve army of another 2, according to wikipedia. Seoul is within artillery range of North Korea. Lots of artillery.

Compare that to the 120,000 troops the US has in Iraq and how much THAT ALONE has streched the US military. No one wants a ground war with N. Korea, especially not the South Koreans.

Add to that a possible Nuclear arsenal and you see why no one is in a rush to start shooting. China for what its worth is more on the US side than N. Korea's.

We had a thread about this years ago where some of the older Military folk here broke the whole situation down. Basically N. Korea is a juggernaut of poorly fed and expendable troops.


And great doc Ian. I wanted to slap that Spanish asshole right from the start.

Scrapper
8th June 09, 02:25 PM
Your point is valid, but I remember;

At one point, Iraq's army was thought to field 1.5 million soldiers. It turned out that he had 1.45 million tired, beaten, civilians with AK's and some 45-year-old Russian tanks.

And 50,000 elite republican guard who capitulated almost instantly. The last thing a starving, oppressed farmer with a rifle wants to see is a high-tech army of professional soldiers.

Furthermore, the actual strength of the N. Korean Military and it's overall combat readiness is really an unknown. There are so many layers of propaganda and misinformation that all we can really do is guess.

That in no way invalidates your point ,though, just an observation.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th June 09, 02:30 PM
All the soldiers in the world won't do you any good when they're 4'6" and you can't feed them.

Robot Jesus
8th June 09, 02:34 PM
What will it take for Obama to decide its high time to curb stomp NK?


quite a bit, the ball is in chinas court; they need to ask themselves which is worse, a nuclear japan and south korea, or a destabilized NK with countless refugees fleeing to china and SK and or reunification ala Germany.


ideally china leading a bitch slap with America support is the only real solution.

Tanhalen21
8th June 09, 03:15 PM
What a great way to bring China and the US together.

elipson
8th June 09, 03:34 PM
Good points Scrapper. One big difference is the Iraqi army never went on the offensive into Saudi Arabia. It sat back and let itself get blown to pieces. If Iraq had pushed into Saudi Arabia early in the first gulf war it would have been much more bloody. Coalition partners had 6 months to move hundreds of thousands of troops and their equipment and to plan a massively complex battle plan over a relatively wide open and undefensable field of battle. And the Rep guard didn't surrender right away.

If North Korea suddenly decided to invade South Korea in the next week, the UN couldn't move enough troops (assuming it had them) fast enough to stop them. N Korea couldn't hold out in the long run, but they would break South Korea to pieces and result in thousands of death before they were beat back to the demarcation line.

My main point is that you shouldn't under-estimate an army THAT big. One of the reasons the first Gulf War was so successful was that they didn't under-estimate the Iraqi military, especially the Rep Guard. Because of this, they unleashed everything they had at them right at the beginning. Compare this to how the NVA were constantly under-estimated in Vietnam and how this lead to a gradual build up of US fighting strength, and not an all-at-once approach.


All the soldiers in the world won't do you any good when they're 4'6" and you can't feed them. Unless you convince them the reason they are starving is the US and south Korea, and that winning the war will mean your family will get fed.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th June 09, 03:40 PM
That stops working when the food just runs out. If SK were to be invaded the smartest thing they could do is run the hell away and burn their own cities, or at least all their food, to the ground.

HappyOldGuy
8th June 09, 03:43 PM
That stops working when the food just runs out. If SK were to be invaded the smartest thing they could do is run the hell away and burn their own cities, or at least all their food, to the ground.

North Korea is pretty backwards, but this isn't the middle ages. They aren't depending on forage to maintain their siege at the castle gates.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th June 09, 03:49 PM
They're low on food as is and if the shit hits the fan and they run into SK to find nothing but empty fields and melted bottles of Coke they're going to be utterly fucked. They can barely keep themselves fed even without losing half their food in transit to Seoul.

HappyOldGuy
8th June 09, 03:50 PM
They're low on food as is and if the shit hits the fan and they run into SK to find nothing but empty fields and melted bottles of Coke they're going to be utterly fucked. They can barely keep themselves fed even without losing half their food in transit to Seoul.

The army eats fairly well, relative to everyone else.

And that's all you need.

elipson
8th June 09, 03:53 PM
MJS you can drive across South Korea in a day. By the time the troops start to realize there is no food to pillage in S Korea, they would have already taken over the country. It's not Russia man. And by that point the leadership would come up with some other excuse, like the fleeing UN troops burning or poisoning all the food and fields.

Don't underestimate how dangerous a thoroughly brainwashed and starving people can be.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th June 09, 03:55 PM
So what? North Korea isn't self-sufficient for food and that's what's important. Anyway, I'm not even talking about locking them onto the Korean peninsula and starving them out, I'm just talking about pulling SK civilians and supplies back to deny them as much as possible before the big meaty cock of 'merican Justice comes to savagely defile the little virgin flower that is NK's glass cannon of an army.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th June 09, 03:58 PM
If you guys think I had some sort of protracted struggle in the South in mind, you're wrong. It's them carrying food back to NK we're trying to prevent here. Once the combined forces of whoever bear down on NK they're going to run out of food fast, even if they prove to be better fighters than I'm giving them credit for.

elipson
8th June 09, 04:11 PM
I'm not sure why you think that makes them LESS dangerous. It makes them more DESPERATE.

And like HoG said, the army eats better than anyone else in the country. As long as they stay fed then the war goes on.

you're also assuming that North Korea wouldn't be stock-piling food in some hidden bunker, all the while claiming they have a food shortage so the UN food agency will keep sending them food to stockpile in that bunker.

No one thinks N Korea can WIN a protracted war. But they can make one huge fucking mess of things.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th June 09, 04:17 PM
Why would they be more desperate instead of just more fuck-it? The entire point is to make them give up faster, why would they buck the historical trend of underfed armies? Food stockpiles? Come on, at least don't make shit up on me.

elipson
8th June 09, 04:38 PM
Armies don't starve to death in the time it takes to rampage over South Korea!!!

And you also seem to think the Army is going to blame its government for being poor and underfed. They're not. They are going to blame everyone else. The same way Germany did with the Jews and the USSR did with the west. It took many decades before Soviet citizens realized their government was full of shit, and that was after an unsuccessful war and the breakaway of several Satellite States.

You're right that a long term war, North Korean troops would deteriorate due to poor conditions (and long before that happened the civilians would deteriorate). but no one is fucking worried that North Korea is going to take South Korea and occupy it indefinitely. Everyone is worried that North Korea is going to steam into S Korea, burn everything, kill everyone, and then kill a lot of UN soldiers while being pushed back the DMZ. THAT is entirely possible.

The idea that you can pick up the entire population and all their belongings and productive capacity and simply moving it to another location (Maybe china will take them? They don't have a very big population. Or maybe Japan will take them? They have a lot of arable unused land) is stupid.

If I were gonna wage war on South Korea, you damn straight I'd be stockpiling food somewhere just to avoid exactly what you think would happen. You think a second Korean war is going to happen when WE want it to? Bullshit.

HappyOldGuy
8th June 09, 04:41 PM
If I were gonna wage war on South Korea, you damn straight I'd be stockpiling food somewhere just to avoid exactly what you think would happen. You think a second Korean war is going to happen when WE want it to? Bullshit.

Maybe in the massive underground bunkers on the border along with all my ammunition and artillery that I have been stockpiling since the 50's?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
8th June 09, 04:43 PM
LUNCH BREAK

Cullion
8th June 09, 06:21 PM
You're forgetting that North Korea has the real Tae Kwon Do.

Dark Helmet
8th June 09, 06:25 PM
Good god, why send women into that kind of a dangerous situation?
I have no problem with that. I'm a coward.

FickleFingerOfFate
8th June 09, 06:26 PM
You're forgetting that North Korea has the real Tae Kwon Do.

If they pause after every point,

I don't see a problem.

Dark Helmet
8th June 09, 06:27 PM
North Korea has a standing army of 2 million and a reserve army of another 2, according to wikipedia. Seoul is within artillery range of North Korea. Lots of artillery.

Compare that to the 120,000 troops the US has in Iraq and how much THAT ALONE has streched the US military. No one wants a ground war with N. Korea, especially not the South Koreans.

Add to that a possible Nuclear arsenal and you see why no one is in a rush to start shooting. China for what its worth is more on the US side than N. Korea's.


.....and a cool special forces ninjas.

3jM9Qzs9isY

Cullion
8th June 09, 06:31 PM
^ that was the real tae kwon do.

FickleFingerOfFate
8th June 09, 06:34 PM
Once we shoot those three,

then do we get to raep their regular army?

Cullion
8th June 09, 06:35 PM
How will you tell the South Koreans from the North Koreans? that's going to be the main problem.

FickleFingerOfFate
8th June 09, 06:40 PM
I'll apologize for my lack of cognizance, and blame it on jet lag,

after the mushroom cloud clears.


It worked with the French embassy in Desert Storm.

Ajamil
8th June 09, 07:00 PM
That vid was cool! I wanna see face plaster smashing as a sport on ESPN3 now. And props to the dude that was speared with a shovel and barely flinched.

Seriously though, where's Japan in all of this? What's their stance, and when do you think they'll get too nervous of a NK with missiles able to reach them that they'll act first?

elipson
8th June 09, 07:28 PM
Japan is not constitutionally allowed to engaged in offensive military operations. Thier military is strictly for self-defense, and its nothing compared to N Korea. They mostly rely on US guardianship for military matters.

socratic
8th June 09, 07:42 PM
Seriously though, where's Japan in all of this? What's their stance, and when do you think they'll get too nervous of a NK with missiles able to reach them that they'll act first?

Like Elipson said, Japan legally has no offensive capacity thanks to the United States' terms-and-conditions when they surrendered. Their Self-Defense Force is too small to do much of anything, which is why it's so strange they contributed to the Iraq Invasion (despite them not having the authority to do so). Japan has anti-misile weaponry to defend itself but if NK really wanted to kill them all NK could do it pretty quickly.... Unless you guys are keeping nukes in Okinawa or something.

Harpy
8th June 09, 07:42 PM
My god, definitely a stupid move for those 2 women to go to NK in the first place but now they're sentenced they are screwed. What other channels (non-violent) do the US have to rescue them?

How about Sociocide raise money to send one of our own into NK to smuggle the women out (and off KJ-Il)?

Stick
8th June 09, 07:51 PM
How will you tell the South Koreans from the North Koreans? that's going to be the main problem.

The average South Korean is 3" taller than his northern cousin.

K-Il has fucked his people so badly that the difference in height between them and their family in the south in only 3 generations is akin to the difference in height between bronze age and industrial age man.

HappyOldGuy
8th June 09, 07:52 PM
My god, definitely a stupid move for those 2 women to go to NK in the first place but now they're sentenced they are screwed. What other channels (non-violent) do the US have to rescue them?

How about Sociocide raise money to send one of our own into NK to smuggle the women out (and off KJ-Il)?

The sentence was a foregone conclusion. Now the negotiations begin.

Also, the women may very well have crossed the border, but there is no reason to assume that. North Korea has a long history of kidnapping people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2821221.stm

Yiktin Voxbane
8th June 09, 07:58 PM
Obviously , we need to

1) drop GOON behind enemy lines

2) ....

3) profit .

Harpy
8th June 09, 08:07 PM
4) Board Somalian pirate 'ship', make it to SK without getting caught by the Brits. Wait in SK waters until Goon sends up a signal flare for evac.

Antifa
8th June 09, 08:10 PM
Relax...

This is what is going to happen.

North Korea will test another nuke.

Everybody will freak out.

North Korea will release the journalists.

Everybody will stop freaking out.

North Korea will drag on the 6 party negotitations for another 4 years.

Stick
8th June 09, 08:14 PM
^ he has a point

Yiktin Voxbane
8th June 09, 08:16 PM
As 'oft he doth .

Scrapper
8th June 09, 08:41 PM
Relax...

This is what is going to happen.

North Korea will test another nuke.

Everybody will freak out.

North Korea will release the journalists.

Everybody will stop freaking out.

North Korea will drag on the 6 party negotitations for another 4 years.

Almost certainly correct: Scenario #2 from my earlier post.

elipson
8th June 09, 09:33 PM
Antifa has landed on the correct.

I don't think Japan REALLY has to worry about getting invaded. The rest of the world loves Japan, and will jump to their aid immediately.

South Korea on the other hand? Maybe not.

Harpy
8th June 09, 09:38 PM
I hope Antifa is correct.

Can the US just sit back and hope that their 2 citizens will be released? I'd be protesting in front of the White House right now.

HappyOldGuy
8th June 09, 09:49 PM
South Korea on the other hand? Maybe not.

Dude, the US has 30,000 troops there intentionally placed so that NK can't attack the south without attacking massive numbers of US troops. You can safely assume that the US would take it quite personally if NK invaded.

elipson
8th June 09, 09:54 PM
Who else would care though?

some countries would, but probably not on the Same level as Japan.

everyone loves Japan. They are the people who can't say no.

Antifa
8th June 09, 09:57 PM
Antifa has landed on the correct.

I don't think Japan REALLY has to worry about getting invaded. The rest of the world loves Japan, and will jump to their aid immediately.

South Korea on the other hand? Maybe not.

North Korea cant get across the water japan is safe. Japan would love not to be a first strike target, but they arent willing to spend the money to do it.

North Korea can not win against south korea. It can fuck south Korea up pretty bad, but it can not win.

South Korea is petrified of North Korea collasping, because then South Korea would have to feed north korea.

China also does not want respondsiblity for North Korea's problems, nor do they want the geo-political ramifications of having their army next to south korea.

I dont see why Russia should give a fuck at all.

America can keep spending money on star-wars stuff and have defense contractors getting rich on things that have been seeming to almost work for 25 years....

Seems like the Status quo is good for everybody involved why fuck it up?

Harpy
8th June 09, 10:13 PM
everyone loves Japan. They are the people who can't say no.

What? More like 'the people who won't say no to your face but will smile and nod profusely all whilst planning to drop an A-bomb on you'.

HappyOldGuy
8th June 09, 11:16 PM
Kim Yong Il is still the worlds second coolest bond villain.

I mean kidnapping a director to make a movies for you. How fucking cool is that.

Khaddafi still wins for the pink death commando squad tho.

WarPhalange
8th June 09, 11:29 PM
Kim Yong Il is still the worlds second coolest bond villain.

I mean kidnapping a director to make a movies for you. How fucking cool is that.

James Bond? Please. He sounds more like Dr. Evil's next partner than an actual villain. The guy's not evil, he's just selfish and very incompetent.

TheLordHumungus
8th June 09, 11:34 PM
What? More like 'the people who won't say no to your face but will smile and nod profusely all whilst planning to drop an A-bomb on you'.

I'm not usually an arbiter of good taste, I know. But considering Hiroshima and Nagasaki, maybe we shouldn't joke about atomic weapons while discussing the Japanese.

Or maybe that's just guilt stemming from the fact that it was my country who was responsible for destroying those cities.

Robot Jesus
8th June 09, 11:37 PM
sir doctor emperor, lord of all the beasts of the land and fishes of the sea K-dog, the Japanese have retaliated. they have dropped leaflets in ever major city all all activity has stopped. everyone is crouching and weeping.

Commander, what is printed on these leaflets.


NSFW http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/d/d4/Shitting_Dicknipples.jpg


why....why...why- Kim jong Ill's last words till the end of his days.

HappyOldGuy
8th June 09, 11:38 PM
James Bond? Please. He sounds more like Dr. Evil's next partner than an actual villain. The guy's not evil, he's just selfish and very incompetent.

He has secret underground lairs, a private nuclear arsenal, and tae kwon do assassins. He kidnaps people for brainwashing and uses his arsenal to blackmail countries for money.

You are not giving the man his props.

WarPhalange
8th June 09, 11:51 PM
http://www.cracked.com/article_17165_6-reasons-north-korea-funniest-evil-dictatorship-ever.html

theotherserge
8th June 09, 11:51 PM
He has secret underground lairs, a private nuclear arsenal, and tae kwon do assassins. He kidnaps people for brainwashing and uses his arsenal to blackmail countries for money.

You are not giving the man his props.
He also dropped Hans Blix into his shark tank, "FUCK YOU HANS BRIX!!!"

Harpy
8th June 09, 11:56 PM
What about his plans to 'capture the moon and bring it to NK'? Awesomeness if I ever saw it.

danno
9th June 09, 12:35 AM
All the soldiers in the world won't do you any good when they're 4'6"

whether they're 4'6" or 6'4", they can still use a gun and drive a tank.

danno
9th June 09, 12:39 AM
Seems like the Status quo is good for everybody involved why fuck it up?

that's kinda what i'm thinking.

i really don't want to america (therefore australia) embroiled in another conflict. any action means we all lose money and lives, and probably wealth and living standards. we should all be thinking long and hard before rocking the boat.

i don't see why NK would want to invade SK anyways, it would mean their own destruction.

danno
9th June 09, 12:48 AM
OMFG.

i'm seriously considering buying a shirt from the NK official website.

http://www.cafepress.com/kfashop?s=kfashop&type=152

TheLordHumungus
9th June 09, 01:34 AM
OMFG.

i'm seriously considering buying a shirt from the NK official website.

http://www.cafepress.com/kfashop?s=kfashop&type=152

Dammit, now I want one. They know graphic design if nothing else.

danno
9th June 09, 01:41 AM
communist propaganda is great stuff.

Dark Helmet
9th June 09, 04:37 PM
Wow ! I would seriously buy one of those.

I never thought I would ever come to this. Supporting communism.

EuropIan
9th June 09, 04:47 PM
Wow ! I would seriously buy one of those.

I never thought I would ever come to this. Supporting communism.
You're doing it through capitalism..

So it's still kind of subversive.

Shawarma
9th June 09, 04:51 PM
You should totally buy a T-shirt, I still got that "My family were genocided and all I got was this lousy T-shirt" I bought in 1943 from www.wehrmacht.com.

EuropIan
9th June 09, 04:53 PM
I was desperately hoping ^that was a real site.

Ajamil
10th June 09, 10:44 AM
whether they're 4'6" or 6'4", they can still use a gun and drive a tank.
Obviously never played Goldeneye - the little dudes are hard to hit. And we can't lose Japan - that's where all the R&D is going on for gundams and mechs. How the hell are we supposed to have WW5 without gundams and mechs?

Edit: Also, would it be a blow against capitalism or against NK if someone were to pirate or break copyright law on those shirts? Cause they're cool, but I don't want dollars going to KJI.

TheLordHumungus
10th June 09, 02:28 PM
Piracy is always good. I say go for it.

danno
10th June 09, 08:39 PM
Obviously never played Goldeneye - the little dudes are hard to hit. And we can't lose Japan - that's where all the R&D is going on for gundams and mechs. How the hell are we supposed to have WW5 without gundams and mechs?

i once watched an australian documentary on WWII. i remember this one part where they interviewed an old aussie soldier who fought in PNG. he said that they they were told the japs were short, weak, myopic, scared of the dark and had inferior weapons.

but when they came, they were tall, strong, fought like madmen and they were perfectly equipped for the job.


Edit: Also, would it be a blow against capitalism or against NK if someone were to pirate or break copyright law on those shirts? Cause they're cool, but I don't want dollars going to KJI.

pfff, do it. you might possibly get in trouble if you were trying to sell thousands of them, but if you make a few, who cares? one less dollar going to KJI.

on the other hand, the idead of having and wearing official north korean propaganda is so... delicious to me.

besides, $30 isn't going to do shit for NK. if everyone was going out to buy these things, then i might not do it. but i really doubt this little propaganda venture is a great revenue raiser.

and more of the money will probably end up with cafepress than NK, so you're supporting capitalism more than communism.

and i hardly even consider NK communist, it's a goddam kingdom.

Antifa
10th June 09, 08:43 PM
pfff, do it. you might possibly get in trouble if you were trying to sell thousands of them, but if you make a few, who cares? one less dollar going to KJI.

on the other hand, the idead of having and wearing official north korean propaganda is so... delicious to me.

.


North Korea has no relations with the US and therefore no standing to sue you. they are legally defenseless. Rob them fucking blind.

danno
10th June 09, 08:56 PM
aaawwwwrriiight

Antifa
10th June 09, 08:59 PM
aaawwwwrriiight

oooopppsss

you need to check their standing in court in your country....

but...

if all this was done in America, by and American corporation, and you owned part of it from there...

they would have to sue here...which they thus protecting you twice.

ohhh Phrost... Phrost... we have a proposal....

HappyOldGuy
11th June 09, 10:20 AM
North Korea has no relations with the US and therefore no standing to sue you. they are legally defenseless. Rob them fucking blind.

I approve of this sentiment, but it's worth pointing out (again) that they are not above kidnapping and trying westerners in fits of pique over very trivial offenses.

Fearless Ukemi
11th June 09, 10:23 AM
I just read up on N Korean labour camps. These women are screwed. Unless they are given special attention, they will probably die.

jkdbuck76
11th June 09, 12:02 PM
Do they work them to death? Or starve them to death? Or both?

Fearless Ukemi
11th June 09, 12:34 PM
Both. I doubt they would survive much longer than 2 years let alone 12. Getting sick in one of these places pretty much guarantees your death.

North Korean labor camps a ghastly prospect for U.S. journalists - Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-korea-labor-camps9-2009jun09,0,3230915.story)

Al Jazeera English - Asia-Pacific - Inside North Korea's labour camps (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2009/06/200968632442604.html)

The Washington Independent Inside a North Korean Labor Camp (http://washingtonindependent.com/45967/inside-a-north-korean-labor-camp)

Sun Wukong
11th June 09, 04:11 PM
North Korea can not win against south korea. It can fuck south Korea up pretty bad, but it can not win.

South Korea is petrified of North Korea collasping, because then South Korea would have to feed north korea.

China also does not want respondsiblity for North Korea's problems, nor do they want the geo-political ramifications of having their army next to south korea.

I dont see why Russia should give a fuck at all.


You're pretty much right on here. From all the shit I've heard recently through the Chinese government grapevine that is my wife, the Chinese are pretty much fed up with North Korea completely. They just don't want to deal with a humanitarian emergency as thousands of NK flee into China if a war breaks out.

NK is pretty f'd up and everybody knows it. They are essentially holding Seoul hostage by means of artillery aimed at their civilian population.

Their actions might not be sensical to people not in NK, but for all purposes KJI has an entire nation of slaves at his disposal and he is answerable only to the NK military leadership who don't actually give a damn about all the fearless leader bullshit.

Naturally, the military leadership only wants one thing: hegemony over their adversaries who are pretty much everyone, including China.

China knows this, which is why they play friendly with them if only to avoid the annoyance of having to crush them under their heel. It would bring bad press in everyway and there is pretty much no way of handling it while looking good to their new economic allies in the west.

China's new policy towards NK as I understand it, is pretty much ignore the crap out of them and hope someone else invades them and shuts them up for good.

One caveat with the above, I don't think China is worried about sharing a border with SK so much as it is with having a US military base parked right across their border.

elipson
11th June 09, 04:19 PM
China should annex N Korea.

Seriously.

Shawarma
11th June 09, 04:26 PM
Maybe they're building up to that.

"Hey, why don't we let that dynasty of truly stupid feudal faux-communists run North Korea completely into the ground, enslave its citizens and piss the whole world off? That way, in 30 years or so, we can walk in and be greeted like liberators and everybody's gonna be all approving and shit of our blatant imperialism."

Sun Wukong
11th June 09, 04:32 PM
yeah, see that's the problem. too many citizens are too indoctrinated to believe all the KJI bullshit.

Even starving people believe they are being protected by KJI. Not all, probably not even most, but enough make occupation a humanitarian nightmare as they won't be able to pacify the resistance without pissing off the world.

But, you probably already guessed that much. I think they know not to touch NK with a 10 foot pole without international support or joint action with someone like the US or one of it's major euro allies.

Use it to bring the two countries closer together maybe. Could be a good idea.

Shawarma
11th June 09, 04:44 PM
It would be like an awesome comic strip I once read in which greater understanding between skinheads and Arabs was achieved simply by allowing them to bond by sharing their common interests: Stomping fags.

TheLordHumungus
12th June 09, 12:01 AM
yeah, see that's the problem. too many citizens are too indoctrinated to believe all the KJI bullshit.

Even starving people believe they are being protected by KJI. Not all, probably not even most, but enough make occupation a humanitarian nightmare as they won't be able to pacify the resistance without pissing off the world.

But, you probably already guessed that much. I think they know not to touch NK with a 10 foot pole without international support or joint action with someone like the US or one of it's major euro allies.

Use it to bring the two countries closer together maybe. Could be a good idea.

Russians in the gulags wept at the 'tragedy' of Stalin's death.

danno
20th June 09, 07:57 PM
check this out. (http://images.cafepress.com/jitcrunch.aspx?bG9hZD1ibGFuayxibGFuazoxNTJfRl9jMjg uanBnfGxvYWQ9TDAsaHR0cDovL2ltYWdlczIuY2FmZXByZXNzL mNvbS9pbWFnZS8zMTEwMzE4Ml80MDB4NDAwLmpwZ3x8c2NhbGU 9TDAsMTAwLDE1MCxXaGl0ZXxsb2FkPXRtLUwwLGJsYW5rOjE1M l9GX2M2X3RtYXNrLmpwZ3xjb21wb3NlPUwwLHRtLUwwLFRleHR 1cmVNYXNrLC0xODUsLTEwMnxjb21wb3NlPWJsYW5rLEwwLEFsc GhhQmxlbmQsMTg1LDEwMnxjcD1yZXN1bHQsYmxhbmt8c2NhbGU 9cmVzdWx0LDAsNDgwLFdoaXRlfGNvbXByZXNzaW9uPTk1fA==)

should arrive in the mail in a couple of weeks. i kinda have this dirty feeling like slept with my cousin. i actually wish the thing was made in NK instead of america though.

so, anyone interested in High Concentrated MERCURY (http://www.korea-dpr.com/exports.htm)?

NK sure looks like a great place to do business.


The DPR of Korea (North Korea) will become in the next years the most important hub for trading in North-East Asia.

Lowest labour cost in Asia.


Highly qualified, loyal and motivated personnel. Education, housing and health service is provided free to all citizens. As opposed to other Asian countries, worker's will not abandon their positions for higher salaries once they are trained.


Lowest taxes scheme in Asia. Especially for high-tech factories. Typical tax exemption for the first two years.

No middle agents. All business made directly with the government, state-owned companies. No middle agents.


Stable. A government with solid security and very stable political system, without corruption.

Full diplomatic relations with most EU members and rest of countries.

New market. Many areas of business and exclusive distribution of products (sole-distribution).

Transparant legal work. Legal procedures, intellectual rights, patents and warranties for investors settled.

Mr. Mantis
2nd July 09, 08:56 PM
I think that country that attempts to make nuclear bombs in this day and age should be bombed. See how they like it. I seriously see their development as an act of aggression that should be dealt with swiftly.

elipson
2nd July 09, 10:03 PM
I think that country that attempts to make nuclear bombs in this day and age should be bombed. See how they like it. I seriously see their development as an act of aggression that should be dealt with swiftly.

You're trolling right?

AAAhmed46
2nd July 09, 11:13 PM
Look at it this way:

Iran has wanted nukes since the iraqi's invaded.

Russia wanted nukes so they didn't have to bow to the U.S.

India and pakistan want nukes to protect eachother from eachother.

America created nukes so it woudl not be threatened.

It's only natural for them to want nukes.

Cullion
5th July 09, 05:35 PM
yeah, see that's the problem. too many citizens are too indoctrinated to believe all the KJI bullshit.

Even starving people believe they are being protected by KJI. Not all, probably not even most, but enough make occupation a humanitarian nightmare as they won't be able to pacify the resistance without pissing off the world.

But, you probably already guessed that much. I think they know not to touch NK with a 10 foot pole without international support or joint action with someone like the US or one of it's major euro allies.

Use it to bring the two countries closer together maybe. Could be a good idea.

Would this work?:



Mr Jiabao, North Korea are an annoyance to you, and to us. They need to be kicked into touch. They've taken civilian citizens of the US hostage, and they've been antagonising people in the region that we both trade with. We understand that you don't want any kind of violent unilateral action from us so close to your border. How about you depose the North Korean government and we'll work together to bring it into the fold of stable international trade, and then we promise to withdraw our military further away from your border. Say perhaps to the ryukyu islands and our existing allies in southeast asia? and you promise to let the new korea remain free to trade with both of our countries?

Lebell
5th July 09, 05:59 PM
i think its funny how everyone assumes the journalists arent spies.
they may very well be.

TheLordHumungus
5th July 09, 06:03 PM
WHAT? Lebell, we're the US. We wouldn't do something underhanded like that.

We're the shining city on a hill, bro.

Cullion
5th July 09, 06:07 PM
i think its funny how everyone assumes the journalists arent spies.
they may very well be.

Yes of course they are. That's not the point. The north korean dictatorship still needs to be dissolved.

elipson
5th July 09, 06:48 PM
Ya. The journalism thing was really just a catalyst for this discussion.

It would be difficult to prove either way, if they were spies or not. Neither NK or the US is trust worthy in this kind of thing.

I'm positive I said something to that affect a dozen pages ago.

Cullion
5th July 09, 06:53 PM
It doesn't matter. We just need an excuse to smack a bitch.

Ajamil
7th July 09, 02:00 PM
Whether sent by the US govt. or not, they are sending out information of some nature to hostile countries. That can fit a loose description of spying.

elipson
7th July 09, 04:43 PM
I guess in a country where it is only legal to report what the government says you can report, being an honest journalist IS spying.

Zendetta
7th July 09, 05:18 PM
Best propaganda idea EVER:

The pro-democracy forces have taken to printing up little "yay, freedom!" rants, possession of which is highly illegal for North Korean citizens.

So they print them on images of Kim Jong Il. Destroying or even throwing away an image of Dear Leader is also illegal. Cognitive dissonance FTW!!!

Ajamil
7th July 09, 10:54 PM
KJI is their worshipful deity? Duude.

elipson
4th August 09, 06:37 PM
Update:

The two journalist have been issued a special pardon.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/08/04/clinton-north-korea-journalist-nuclear249.html

TheLordHumungus
4th August 09, 06:54 PM
When faced with spectacular pimp-itude of the level Bill Clinton is constantly repping, a dude like ol KJI knows its best to just surrender unto him your bitches.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9104/clinton01.jpg

^ That's what it looks like when you're greeted as a liberator, for all you right wing hawks out there.

danno
4th August 09, 08:17 PM
fucking awesome.

bush just would have said something like "we will not negotiate with asian faggot terrorists" and started a war.

sometimes, this is just how you get shit done. this is mission accomplished.

DerAuslander108
4th August 09, 09:22 PM
Bill Clinton didn't do shit.

This is a pyrhic victory. The girls are being returned because we allowed the North Koreans to save face. We allowed them to be tried & convicted. We allowed them to serve time. We allowed the DPRK a public relation coup by letting them deign to pardon and release the reporters.

Don't think that these negotiations began when Clinton landed in Pyongyang. This was what was going to happen all along.

We played North Korea's game. We let them win.

TheLordHumungus
4th August 09, 09:28 PM
Don't think that these negotiations began when Clinton landed in Pyongyang. This was what was going to happen all along.

We played North Korea's game. We let them win.

You think Clinton was just going to North Korea anyway, and stumbled upon this? I think he was a required part of the deal.

And what did they win exactly? We got two of our citizens back and they got to save face in return. What a devil's bargain.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
4th August 09, 09:31 PM
It all goes back to NK being butthurt about the six-nation talks and everyone telling them to put the nukes down.

The negotiations should have been more like "How about you give them back and we don't glass your country" but whatever. Give it a day and we'll be right back to telling them to cut that nuclear shit out.

DerAuslander108
4th August 09, 09:52 PM
You think Clinton was just going to North Korea anyway, and stumbled upon this? I think he was a required part of the deal.

Of course he was party of the deal! His presence would be a major coup for KJI, especially after his wife compared the North Koreans to petulant children. How do you think this is being spun right now in North Korea? This only further solidifies KJI's hold on his people. It shows his people that his rebellion against those seeking to stop them from gaining nuclear ascendancy has brought the US & other countries to respect North Korea, now that even the US is sending Bill Clinton to pay tribute. It confirms to North Korea that its strategy works...and thus it will continue until conflict is inevitable.

By sending Bill Clinton, KJI now has the leverage he needs to dissolve the 6 Party talks. There is no need for other nations to be involved. He now commands the respect of the US government.

Further, a former US president could only secure the release of two US citizens. Let's not begin to count the Japanese and South Korean citizens who are being held by the North.

The last time a US citizen was held in North Korea, it only took a Congressman. Now it takes a former President. KJI has done a great job at upping the ante.

Having worked in the North Korean liberation movement, having helped refugees & defectors, having heard their testimony, your commentary on Bill Clinton being welcomed as a "liberator" is a slap in the face to the people I know who have suffered through these prisons, some of whom are lost forever, likely dead.

All so you can sit in your nice safe home in the US & play partisan politics & get off on making jokes about Bushie....

You make me sick.

So go ahead with your masturbation while people still suffer & die. Your involvement in this is nothing more than your egocentric need to be better than others.


And what did they win exactly? We got two of our citizens back and they got to save face in return. What a devil's bargain.

Meanwhile...

What happens when you bargain with the Devil...

danno
4th August 09, 10:07 PM
Bill Clinton didn't do shit.

This is a pyrhic victory. The girls are being returned because we allowed the North Koreans to save face. We allowed them to be tried & convicted. We allowed them to serve time. We allowed the DPRK a public relation coup by letting them deign to pardon and release the reporters.

Don't think that these negotiations began when Clinton landed in Pyongyang. This was what was going to happen all along.

We played North Korea's game. We let them win.

in my view KJI looked like a lapdog in this. he's allowed this it to appear as if bill went over there and just took the girls back. but perhaps i don't know enough about this situation.

what do you make of this:


"When you're dealing with Kim Jong-il in North Korea, his word has been —may still be — law," said Jim Walsh, a nuclear proliferation expert at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "And so it is actually possible to sit down and have a significant conversation that could change the current trajectory of U.S.-North Korean relations."

During a nuclear standoff with North Korean in 1994, former U.S. president Jimmy Carter went to Pyongyang and met with leader Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong-il's father. That visit, during Clinton's presidency, led to a breakthrough accord months later.

The last high-ranking U.S. official to meet with Kim Jong-il was Madeleine Albright, Clinton's secretary of state, who visited Pyongyang in 2000 at a time of warming relations. Ties turned frosty when George W. Bush took office in the White House in 2001.

EDIT - OK aus, reading your above post now...

danno
4th August 09, 10:11 PM
derauslander, how do you think this situation should have been handled?

DerAuslander108
4th August 09, 10:25 PM
Realpolitik, this may have been the only way for it to be handled.

That doesn't make you douches any less douchey for clinging to Clinton's nutsack.

danno
4th August 09, 11:11 PM
Realpolitik, this may have been the only way for it to be handled.

i thought so.


That doesn't make you douches any less douchey for clinging to Clinton's nutsack.

if i find out that clinton had very little to do with what happened, i'll happily take back what i said before. i'll look into it when i have the time. feel free to enlighten me.

TheLordHumungus
4th August 09, 11:14 PM
Of course he was party of the deal! His presence would be a major coup for KJI, especially after his wife compared the North Koreans to petulant children. How do you think this is being spun right now in North Korea? This only further solidifies KJI's hold on his people. It shows his people that his rebellion against those seeking to stop them from gaining nuclear ascendancy has brought the US & other countries to respect North Korea, now that even the US is sending Bill Clinton to pay tribute. It confirms to North Korea that its strategy works...and thus it will continue until conflict is inevitable.

By sending Bill Clinton, KJI now has the leverage he needs to dissolve the 6 Party talks. There is no need for other nations to be involved. He now commands the respect of the US government.

Further, a former US president could only secure the release of two US citizens. Let's not begin to count the Japanese and South Korean citizens who are being held by the North.

The last time a US citizen was held in North Korea, it only took a Congressman. Now it takes a former President. KJI has done a great job at upping the ante.

Having worked in the North Korean liberation movement, having helped refugees & defectors, having heard their testimony, your commentary on Bill Clinton being welcomed as a "liberator" is a slap in the face to the people I know who have suffered through these prisons, some of whom are lost forever, likely dead.

All so you can sit in your nice safe home in the US & play partisan politics & get off on making jokes about Bushie....

You make me sick.

So go ahead with your masturbation while people still suffer & die. Your involvement in this is nothing more than your egocentric need to be better than others.

I'll be the first to admit I may be reading this whole thing wrong.

For one, I figured an ex-president was a step down from a sitting congressman. I didn't think KJI would be able to spin a visit with a man who is currently a private citizen into a propaganda victory. I figured he'd want a representative of our government to jump through a few more hoops in order for it to seem like he had a little more control.

And as for only securing the release of two US citizens, that seemed more because Americans value our own more than we do citizens of other nations (even friendly ones). This shows a narrow view on our part, but not a lack of political sway. We can't be said to have failed in freeing prisoners we didn't ask for.

But I'll readily say that I'm entirely ignorant on how North Korean propaganda operates. While I can't deny being egocentric, I will apologize if anything I posted was insulting to those still living & dying under a tyranny I can't begin to comprehend.

I'm sorry.


Meanwhile...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBzHCVv5GeQ

What happens when you bargain with the Devil...

That's some terrible shit, dude. I still can't fault anyone for doing what they had to in order to keep those journalists from a NK labor camp, but I'm starting to understand your take on this.

WarPhalange
4th August 09, 11:33 PM
The way I heard it was that Bill Clinton cock-slapped KJI in the face so hard that he got knocked out, and his aids had no fucking clue what to do so they just gave into Bill's demands for the two journalists and some Korean porn.

GuiltySpark
4th August 09, 11:38 PM
derauslander, how do you think this situation should have been handled?

Carry a GPS

TheLordHumungus
4th August 09, 11:41 PM
The way I heard it was that Bill Clinton cock-slapped KJI in the face so hard that he got knocked out, and his aids had no fucking clue what to do so they just gave into Bill's demands for the two journalists and some Korean porn.

Is that how Air America reported it?

WarPhalange
4th August 09, 11:51 PM
I was actually thinking about claiming I heard it on MSNBC.

elipson
5th August 09, 12:25 AM
I think Der has this one right. N Korea basically won. It's a big PR victory for KJI releasing them on a special pardon. The only way this outcome could have been avoided would be to push N Korea until they broke and released the hostages on a US timeline. Would have been a bad idea though, because playing brinksmenship with an egomaniacal madman is never a good idea.

I also think he got pissy that he was knocked off the front page by Iran.

TheLordHumungus
5th August 09, 01:46 AM
I was actually thinking about claiming I heard it on MSNBC.

I love Keith and Rachel, but they're as likely as Air America to have said the same thing. I'd have believed you.

danno
5th August 09, 09:48 AM
It's a big PR victory for KJI

only for western tools who supported him in the first place, and i guess people within NK. everyone else knows he's a cock sucker.


Would have been a bad idea though, because playing brinksmenship with an egomaniacal madman is never a good idea.

exactly. that's why we can't do it.

KO'd N DOA
5th August 09, 10:31 AM
I wonder what who they would have sent if KJI had kept Clinton as his *guest* - in order to make a Jazz band or sex tapes or something.

Dude is crazy - he might just have done that. With his Pancreatic Cancer, that might just have been his Opus Magnus. No way they would Nuke a former prez, would they? Go out with a blaze of glory - he loves his movies.