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Antifa
30th May 09, 03:50 PM
Shows how far people will go to appologize and coverup for police abuse. fucking makes me sick.



from http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090530/NEWS/905300341/Ribbons+dot+Creston+supporting+convicted+ex-police+officers

Ribbons dot Creston supporting convicted ex-police officers

Orange and white ribbons have sprung up in Creston in support of two former police officers convicted of a sexual assault there, and one man has shaved his head in solidarity, townspeople said Friday.

Victims' advocates are disturbed by the gestures, saying they make Creston even more uncomfortable for the sexual assault survivor, who still lives in the community.

"I have never heard of people putting up ribbons to wait for convicted rapists to return home," Vickie Hodge, the executive director of the Rural Iowa Crisis Center, wrote on an online message board about the ribbons. "This is really an outrage. I think it speaks to a sense of entitlement that is felt by those responsible. Scary isn't it?"

In March, John Sickels and James "Jamie" Christensen were convicted for their roles in the sexual assault of a bartender in April 2008. At the time, Sickels was the assistant police chief in Creston and Christensen was the police chief. Both were sentenced on May 20 to 25 years and must serve at least 14 years.

Creston Mayor Warren Woods said Friday that city crews have removed all the ribbons someone on Wednesday illegally placed on public property, such as stop signs and light poles.

"I don't know of anyone who's in support of them," Woods said of the ribbons.

But Christensen's mother, Joyce Manley of Creston, said Friday: "The men have got a lot of support here in town. People kept quiet to begin with, and I think they're tired of staying quiet."

The colors are significant, Manley said. "The orange ribbon means they're in prison and the white ribbon means that they're innocent," she said.

Chuck Hulett, owner of Hulett & Son Auto Salvage in Creston, said he shaved his head bald to support Christensen, who is bald.

Some in town consider that a jab at the woman who was assaulted, who said in her victim's statement in court: "I cringe every time I see a bald-headed man, a male officer in uniform, or a law enforcement vehicle. I'm not the same person I was before the assault, and I might never be that person again."

The Des Moines Register does not name sexual assault victims without their permission.

Manley, Christensen's mother, said: "What we can't understand is why the bald head bothered her when it was the redhead that supposedly raped her. That's just asinine."

A jury in Sioux City found Sickels, 39, guilty of raping the woman at the Crestmoor Country Club on April 18, 2008, after the club had closed. Prosecutors alleged that Christensen, 41, stroked the woman's hair and tried to quiet her during the incident.

Hulett said he's mailing a photo of his new bald head to Christensen. Hulett said his motives had nothing to do with sending a message to the survivor. "It's for a loved one in prison. Johnny and Jamie, they're two of my best friends," he said. "We're standing in support. There's nothing to do with harassment. We could easily harass her if we wanted to, but we're not doing that."

Someone stripped a ribbon off his fence, which is private property, so he replaced it with at least eight more, Hulett said.

Supporters of the former officers, including Manley, maintain that the April 2008 case was actually a night of drinking that led to an act of consensual sex.

The victim in her court statement said that the sex was against her will and that Sickels knew it. She said she tried to get away but "they corralled me behind the bar."

The woman said she suffered psychological damage and fears encountering friends or relatives of the men in Creston. "Going places in public in my town has been very difficult if not impossible because of my fears," she wrote.

Wednesday night, a Creston man called the crisis hot line at the Rural Iowa Crisis Center to report the ribbons.

Hodge, the director of the center, said in a telephone interview that she immediately set out with a flashlight and scissors, but then chose not to cut down any of the ribbons. Instead she called the mayor and got him out of bed at 11 p.m.

City parks crews on Thursday removed the ribbons so quickly that several people in town said they never saw them.

"I haven't seen any. I don't even know what they're about," said Gus King, co-owner of the Elm's Club in Creston.

Advocates at the Iowa Coalition Against Sexual Assault reached out to the state attorney general's office to see if the ribbons constitute harassment or stalking of the survivor, but concluded that some intimidating behaviors don't rise to the level of a criminal charge.

Bob Brammer, a spokesman for the attorney general, said Friday: "We met today with persons who are concerned about the situation, and we are aware of the situation. The victim's safety and well-being are our top concern, and we are confident local police will respond appropriately and effectively if there is any question of public safety."

Townspeople are now posting the ribbons on private property: car rear-view mirrors, trees and front porches, Manley said. Orange and white bracelets are on order, she said.

"We just want the public to know the justice they had was all wrong," Manley said. "We've got pedophiles out there with less time than these guys, too. Murderers that get less time. These guys would have been better off to drive out of there drunk and kill someone."

Hodge is worried about conflict escalating in Creston. "I recognize that many people are hurting, and I would encourage people to behave with dignity and respect for one another," she said. "I obviously believe the criminal justice system did its job. Others do not, and I understand that. This is ripping the town apart. People who are doing that need to stop. We need to move on and heal.”

No investigation is underway, the mayor said.

“If it gets to be an overblown situation, we’ll take a look at it as a more in-depth investigation,” Woods said.

Cullion
30th May 09, 04:13 PM
Well, women do lie about being raped you know.

Antifa
30th May 09, 04:19 PM
Well, women do lie about being raped you know.

These men were convicted. You do know how hard it is to get a rape conviction right?

I mean their attorneys are obviosuly going to tell her to her face on the stand that she was asking for it.

Not an easy lie to stand by. Rape is falsely reported at the same rate as other crimes. 3%

WarPhalange
30th May 09, 04:34 PM
Getting two cops convicted of rape in a town that apparently loves them would require a HELL of a lot of lying.

Cullion
30th May 09, 04:36 PM
You do know how hard it is to get a rape conviction right?

No, I honestly don't.

Antifa
30th May 09, 04:39 PM
It's considered one of the hardest types of criminal prosecution because of the stress the defense will place on the survivor.

WarPhalange
30th May 09, 04:41 PM
So it's hard to get a rape conviction because the survivor/witness is too scared to get on the stand and give enough meat to the jury to vote for a conviction?

That doesn't mean a woman couldn't lie in a rape case, since she wouldn't be so stressed.

Cullion
30th May 09, 04:43 PM
The trouble is.. it's also a magnet for women with 'men issues' to make false claims about in a way that burglary or credit card fraud isn't. It's no doubt very stressful for a woman (who due to abuse from her father) has a long history of being sexually provocative with men (to the point of having consensual sex and then suddenly turning angry on them) to be questioned about it, but it ought to be considered as part of the evidence when it's one person's word against another.

I really have met some fucking insane people in my time, men and women, usually due to mistreatment by their family. Women who've been mistreated (even if not sexually) by a male relative (usually their father) often carry all kinds of warped and suppressed rage into their adult sexual relationships.

Antifa
30th May 09, 04:43 PM
So it's hard to get a rape conviction because the survivor/witness is too scared to get on the stand and give enough meat to the jury to vote for a conviction?

That doesn't mean a woman couldn't lie in a rape case, since she wouldn't be so stressed.

Well. they also dig into the survivors background and frame it in nasty nasty ways:

"Ma'm, how many sexual partners have you had? How about this year? Do you enjoy being a total slut? Do your children know you're a whore? etc..."

Cullion
30th May 09, 04:49 PM
What would be a more reliable way of finding out if the woman had the kind of psychological issues that I've described?

I honestly don't know the answer.

Robot Jesus
30th May 09, 04:54 PM
I wonder how these people "know" he's innocent?

Antifa
30th May 09, 04:57 PM
I wonder how these people "know" he's innocent?

He's a pig, therefore he's innocent.

kracker
30th May 09, 05:20 PM
He's a pig, therefore he's innocent.

Bingo. It's sickening but there are a vast number of retards who will make any excuse for cops. I mean fuck look at the Oscar Grant case. A handcuffed man is shot in the back on video while not resisting. The cop should have been convicted of first degree murder in 3 seconds and he's walking around free as shit. HE WASN'T EVEN TRIED despite it happening like 6 months ago. It's pretty clear he's going to get off scot free for filmed murder. Check out these cop sodomite rapists. What's the betting line they'll get off? People who are psychologically weak can't stand the thought that their glorious protectors occasionally (quite often actually) abuse the people they are supposed to be protecting. It's a fucking miracle these rapists were convicted.

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/longisland/ny-nymineo2912815976may28,0,150782.story

Antifa
30th May 09, 05:32 PM
Bingo. It's sickening but there are a vast number of retards who will make any excuse for cops. I mean fuck look at the Oscar Grant case. A handcuffed man is shot in the back on video while not resisting. The cop should have been convicted of first degree murder in 3 seconds and he's walking around free as shit. HE WASN'T EVEN TRIED despite it happening like 6 months ago. It's pretty clear he's going to get off scot free for filmed murder. Check out these cop sodomite rapists. What's the betting line they'll get off? People who are psychologically weak can't stand the thought that their glorious protectors occasionally (quite often actually) abuse the people they are supposed to be protecting. It's a fucking miracle these rapists were convicted.

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/longisland/ny-nymineo2912815976may28,0,150782.story

exactly how it works. some do it and the rest cover for them,

fes_fsa
30th May 09, 05:33 PM
So it's hard to get a rape conviction because the survivor/witness is too scared to get on the stand and give enough meat to the jury to vote for a conviction?

That doesn't mean a woman couldn't lie in a rape case, since she wouldn't be so stressed.

it's not just that. the easiest way to catch a rapist (swab, ID, and DNA test) isn't so easy to do.

after that sort of trauma... the last thing most women want is to lie on a table with her legs in stirrups, getting poked and prodded by a bunch of strangers.

alot of times, when you finally have the courage to ID your attacker, the evidence is gone. or there's no longer enough to get a conviction (remember... these ARE cops).

Shawarma
30th May 09, 05:43 PM
To be fair, wasn't the guy who got shot while lying down a result of the cop going for his pepperspray or taser and getting his gun by mistake? 1st degree murder charges might be inappropriate in that case.

Antifa
30th May 09, 05:54 PM
To be fair, wasn't the guy who got shot while lying down a result of the cop going for his pepperspray or taser and getting his gun by mistake? 1st degree murder charges might be inappropriate in that case.

If the kid was handcuffed he didnt need either of those things. kid was not resisting, and the cops wear their tasers on the other side exactly so that cant happen

Shawarma
30th May 09, 06:01 PM
Perhaps he just happened to come across an especially thick cop who panicked?

Antifa
30th May 09, 06:03 PM
Perhaps he just happened to come across an especially thick cop who panicked?

have you seen the video?

Kein Haar
30th May 09, 06:13 PM
Cullion,

It seems rather difficult to get bona-fide straight-up conviction in any crime.

When one runs a criminal history, it's written out as such.

X arrests (number of times physically arrested and fingerprinted), Y convictions.

Then it goes on down the line of specific *charges*.

5-0 drugs
2-0 Traffic
3-0 Assault
1-0 Invasion of privacy

etc.

So there can be many more charges than actual arrests...multiple charges per arrest.

The first number means the number of times charged.

The second number indicates the number of convictions.

Regarding the second number, I see mostly zeroes for the vast majority of people.

Of course, I don't think that neccesarily means no court sanctions. There are a lot of "court supervisions".

But if you're straight-up going to the clink....that's a very good indication of guilt.

kracker
30th May 09, 06:14 PM
To be fair, wasn't the guy who got shot while lying down a result of the cop going for his pepperspray or taser and getting his gun by mistake? 1st degree murder charges might be inappropriate in that case.

And if you believe that I have some oceanfront property in Nebraska I'd like to sell you.

Antifa
30th May 09, 06:24 PM
the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXW59Nx1loU

different angle no sound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsncZ7K584

Robot Jesus
30th May 09, 06:27 PM
But if you're straight-up going to the clink....that's a very good indication of guilt.


thats the point isn't it? our system is designed with the idea "we would rather let a thousand guilty go free then punish one innocent". right?

HappyOldGuy
30th May 09, 09:54 PM
If the kid was handcuffed he didnt need either of those things. kid was not resisting, and the cops wear their tasers on the other side exactly so that cant happen

Multiple eyewitnesses and the station camera say the kid was resisting, and BART had not yet implemented a policy on what side to draw from. Also eyewitnesses reported that the cop said he was going to taser the kid.

I think that even as an accident it's worth some jail time, but the the whole "he did it on purpose" shtick was dubious from the getgo, and is clearly delusional at this point.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/19523065/detail.html
http://cbs5.com/crime/fatal.BART.shooting.2.1019349.html.

socratic
30th May 09, 10:45 PM
I hope the rapist cops get shanked for being the sick fucks that they are. They aren't even cops anymore, they're ex cops.

Ajamil
30th May 09, 11:46 PM
For lack of better info, I'll go with the jury's decision and be rather disturbed by this action. Thankfully it doesn't seem to be too many in support of the cops here, and not by the city at all.

It is scary how easily men of like status - especially authoritative status - will protect their own.

Virus
31st May 09, 01:23 AM
exactly how it works. some do it and the rest cover for them,

Sounds like the Catholic Church.

Kein Haar
31st May 09, 01:36 AM
Man, Virus is serious about this metaphysical thing.

Not to derail or anything, right?

Ajamil
31st May 09, 01:51 AM
No he's right and it's a serious danger. People of power act to keep fellow people of power in that position even if they perform acts that go against the very organization that gives them that power.

fes_fsa
31st May 09, 02:28 AM
at least cops get indicted and lose their jobs when they're caught.

*cough, i'm looking at you catholics, cough*

Cullion
31st May 09, 05:30 AM
There's more sexual abuse in our state-run childcare system than I've seen reported in the Catholic church. Judges and senior police officers have been involved.

Similar paedophile rings involving the law-enforcing and political classes operate on mainland Europe.

These things aren't easy to prosecute when a tightly-knit network of powerful people are involved.

Shawarma
31st May 09, 08:15 AM
Multiple eyewitnesses and the station camera say the kid was resisting, and BART had not yet implemented a policy on what side to draw from. Also eyewitnesses reported that the cop said he was going to taser the kid.

I think that even as an accident it's worth some jail time, but the the whole "he did it on purpose" shtick was dubious from the getgo, and is clearly delusional at this point.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/19523065/detail.html
http://cbs5.com/crime/fatal.BART.shooting.2.1019349.html.
Yeah. The cop going "Imma firin mah tasor!" and reaching for the wrong pocket sounds more likely than him going "Hey, all you eyewitnesses in this very public place, Imma shoot your buddy in front of you and there's nothing you can do about it!"

Kein Haar
31st May 09, 08:20 AM
No he's right and it's a serious danger. People of power act to keep fellow people of power in that position even if they perform acts that go against the very organization that gives them that power.

I know he's right, but...that's something Hannibal would have said.

"HAY GAIZ...HERE'S SOMETHING WE ALL KNOW AND AGREE ON! BUT I'LL SAY IT ANYWAY AS IF IT'S NOVEL.

hEY! WHO HERE DRINKS A CRISP REFRESHING LAGER SOMETIMES? HEY ME TOO!!!!1"

"

Antifa
31st May 09, 01:40 PM
at least cops get indicted and lose their jobs when they're caught.

*cough, i'm looking at you catholics, cough*

not all the time:

http://www.gangresearch.net/GangResearch/Chicago/history/burge.htm

fes_fsa
31st May 09, 03:58 PM
There's more sexual abuse in our state-run childcare system than I've seen reported in the Catholic church. Judges and senior police officers have been involved.

you're pulling this out of your ass. gimme numbers and sources. now.

and then how do your numbers compare to Catholic run child care systems?

you know... you have to jump through alot of hoops to run a residential treatment center--or even become a foster parent in the states. i'm talking background check, child abuse central index review, and finger printing. same goes for daycares--these people aren't even KEEPING the children: they're watching them for a few hours and that's it. and it's not hard to get these places shut down--there's a checklist of child safety regulations (not just abuse--this can be anything from a messy house to hiring a staff member with a criminal record who hasn't applied for an exemption from the department of social services) that a social worker goes over when they inspect the house (these visits are almost always unannounced). in my state alone, you get a week to fix your shit and you're fined a hundred bucks per violation per day. if it hasn't been fixed, you have 30 days and you have to pay the same rate. and if you still can't get it together, your license is suspended, and all the children under your care are placed with more capable caregivers. you have 90 days to fix everything before your license is forfeited and in that time, you don't have custody of ANY children.

and let's not forget people who abuse children. they automatically remove, or deny application of, your license if on your criminal record, you have ANY sex crimes--this includes spousal rape, incest, and sodomy. how many Catholic child care systems were permitted to keep running AFTER it was discovered that children were being abused?

that the state will abuse your children is a myth. there are too many checks and balances in place to ensure that it doesn't happen. yes, some abuse DOES happen, but it's weeded out and eliminated quickly.

kracker
31st May 09, 04:46 PM
at least cops get indicted and lose their jobs when they're caught.


Are you high? Seriously bro was that supposed to be a joke or do you actually believe that? I'd bet a far greater percentage of priests are convicted because they don't have the ENTIRE injustice system bowing down to them. Maybe priests have some kind of divine authority but as far as earth authority is concerned no one gets off easier than cops. The thing with priests is that any 5 year old can scream rape and society is so disgusted (rightly) with priest rape the priest will get convicted by a jury practically automatically. Where is this same kind of societal outrage towards crooked cops? The jury always is biased in favour of cops no matter the evidence. As soon as society is half as hard on cops as they are on priests I'll STFU entirely.

Doritosaurus Chex
31st May 09, 04:56 PM
Are you high? Seriously bro was that supposed to be a joke or do you actually believe that? I'd bet a far greater percentage of priests are convicted because they don't have the ENTIRE injustice system bowing down to them. Maybe priests have some kind of divine authority but as far as earth authority is concerned no one gets off easier than cops. The thing with priests is that any 5 year old can scream rape and society is so disgusted (rightly) with priest rape the priest will get convicted by a jury practically automatically. Where is this same kind of societal outrage towards crooked cops? The jury always is biased in favour of cops no matter the evidence. As soon as society is half as hard on cops as they are on priests I'll STFU entirely.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png

TheLordHumungus
31st May 09, 05:07 PM
I hope the rapist cops get shanked for being the sick fucks that they are. They aren't even cops anymore, they're ex cops.

Cop or ex-cop, as long as they get treated by the other inmates like the filth they are.

Shawarma
31st May 09, 05:10 PM
If you get put into tough, butt-pounding jail as a former police officer, what are your chances of making it out in one piece?

Cullion
31st May 09, 05:11 PM
and then how do your numbers compare to Catholic run child care systems?

Fuck off and do your own research fes. I don't have to do your googling for you.
You can blow your fucking long-winded arrogant fantasy rant out of your arse. I simply don't have the time to correct this level of fail. Google 'south wales paedophile scandal' for a start, or maybe google 'marc detroux'.

Antifa
31st May 09, 05:12 PM
If you get put into tough, butt-pounding jail as a former police officer, what are your chances of making it out in one piece?

pretty good. they look after their own and these guys go straight to protective custody

fes_fsa
31st May 09, 05:40 PM
Fuck off and do your own research fes. I don't have to do your googling for you.
You can blow your fucking long-winded arrogant fantasy rant out of your arse. I simply don't have the time to correct this level of fail. Google 'south wales paedophile scandal' for a start, or maybe google 'marc detroux'.

why should i have to do the research when you're the one who made the claim?

where DID you get your numbers, Cullion?

oh... right. you pulled them out of your ass.

Shawarma
31st May 09, 05:46 PM
Fuck off and do your own research fes. I don't have to do your googling for you.
You can blow your fucking long-winded arrogant fantasy rant out of your arse. I simply don't have the time to correct this level of fail. Google 'south wales paedophile scandal' for a start, or maybe google 'marc detroux'.
I have no stake in this, but the main perpetrator of fail is always the guy who makes a claim and then refuses to provide sources when challenged.

socratic
31st May 09, 06:01 PM
Fuck off and do your own research fes. I don't have to do your googling for you.
You can blow your fucking long-winded arrogant fantasy rant out of your arse. I simply don't have the time to correct this level of fail. Google 'south wales paedophile scandal' for a start, or maybe google 'marc detroux'.

Oh noes, I have to back up my own assertions! RAAR CULLION SMASH!

fes_fsa
31st May 09, 06:07 PM
Are you high? Seriously bro was that supposed to be a joke or do you actually believe that? I'd bet a far greater percentage of priests are convicted because they don't have the ENTIRE injustice system bowing down to them. Maybe priests have some kind of divine authority but as far as earth authority is concerned no one gets off easier than cops. The thing with priests is that any 5 year old can scream rape and society is so disgusted (rightly) with priest rape the priest will get convicted by a jury practically automatically. Where is this same kind of societal outrage towards crooked cops? The jury always is biased in favour of cops no matter the evidence. As soon as society is half as hard on cops as they are on priests I'll STFU entirely.

i never expressed any bias favoring cops. i have no problem busting crooked cops. they exist and while they make up a small percentage of cops, that's still alot.

it's no secret that cops cover up for other cops. but you also have to remember that it's ALSO cops that bust crooked cops.

this doesn't typically happen in the Catholic church.

i just googled "priests in jail". i got 3 pages of embezzlement. they went to jail for stealing from the church. nothing about rape or molestation. wanna know why?

it's because as long as you're not deliberately harming the catholic church, the church covers it up. you'll hear more about the church moving pedophiles and rapists around or excommunicating them than you will about them getting reported to the authorities and going to jail.

Ajamil
31st May 09, 06:29 PM
Same thing happened in ISKCON. Though I like to think our track record and reactions were slightly better, there's still apologists out there for a "guru" guilty of smuggling, molestation, abuse, and conspiracy to murder.

socratic
31st May 09, 06:35 PM
Same thing happened in ISKCON. Though I like to think our track record and reactions were slightly better, there's still apologists out there for a "guru" guilty of smuggling, molestation, abuse, and conspiracy to murder.

Power draws in all types, the bad and the good. Religious power is no exception.

Ajamil
31st May 09, 07:38 PM
I'd say it's the ideal example.