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View Full Version : Why "Terminator: Salvation" will ultimately be a disappointment.



Tom Kagan
19th May 09, 10:34 PM
Short Answer: PG-13.

Slightly Longer Answer: Bobblehead Terminators

http://pe.elmstreet-online.com/shop1/catalog/images/FU8541_1.jpg


Okay, the Bobblehead Terminator is awesome. But, they didn't make that thing for me. It's in the toy store.

The original Terminator, based on a story by Harlan Elison, did not have a very happy ending. It was a movie for grown ups. But coming this Haloween, I expect to see little tot Terminators being led around by their moms asking for candy.

"Oh, how cute! Little Jessie wants to end humanity. Here, have some skittles."

http://www.newprophecy.net/Linda_Hamilton_-_Nuke_Scene.jpg

So, T-IV will be a special effects extravaganza and will be forgotten faster than the movie patrons consumed the 55 gallon drums of popcorn and soda.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
19th May 09, 10:42 PM
i motherfucking loved the old terminators when i was little
therefore you argument is invalid

Tom Kagan
19th May 09, 10:45 PM
i motherfucking loved the old terminators when i was little
therefore you argument is invalid


Your parents didn't love you. Therefore your argument is invalid.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
19th May 09, 10:48 PM
at least my parents didn't have matching genitalia you fagson

Tom Kagan
19th May 09, 10:53 PM
at least my parents didn't have matching genitalia you fagson


I'm sure your parents showed you all about their clashing genitalia and what it could do for you in painful detail.

Steve
19th May 09, 10:58 PM
I'll still watch it, if anything to try and spot that pesky DP that pissed Bale off so much.

mrblackmagic
19th May 09, 11:08 PM
5 internets says he's probably one of the early t-models.

Come on, Tom. Every ultra-violent, not-for-children action movie since Rambo II has had stupid ass merchandise tie-ins that clearly don't reflect the movie. They have Nightowl costumes for kids for christssake.

elipson
19th May 09, 11:19 PM
I want that bobble-head.

And to mr. negativity - fuck you.

This movie might suck, but fuck you for predicting it and spoiling everyones anticipaton. I'm still gonna watch it, but my money is on Transformers 2 for most kick ass movie of the summer.

And pg-13 does suck.

Artful Dentures
20th May 09, 12:55 AM
I watched the Terminator when i wasn't sopposed to when I was 12

It was awesome

It still didn't freak me out as much as the Wiz though

Steve
20th May 09, 12:58 AM
My stepbrother took me to see Terminator 2 in the theater down in Cali.

He translates bibles in Papua New Guinea nowadays.

Neildo
20th May 09, 01:09 AM
my dad took me to terminator 2 when i was 12. what was that rated?

Steve
20th May 09, 01:11 AM
R, my brother.

R.

Steve
20th May 09, 01:13 AM
And it won 4 Oscars (wow, I never really looked into it before).

Tom Kagan
20th May 09, 09:58 AM
Come on, Tom. Every ultra-violent, not-for-children action movie since Rambo II has had stupid ass merchandise tie-ins that clearly don't reflect the movie. They have Nightowl costumes for kids for christssake.


Not for children? That's where we disagree. Besides, suggesting "but they all do it" isn't a particularly good argument as to why it should not ultimately be a disappointment.

T1 was not for children.

T+1 were all for children.



I want that bobble-head.

And to mr. negativity - fuck you.

This movie might suck, but fuck you for predicting it and spoiling everyones anticipaton. I'm still gonna watch it, but my money is on Transformers 2 for most kick ass movie of the summer.

And pg-13 does suck.

I already own two of the bobble heads.

And, I did not predict the movie would "suck". I said that ultimately, it will be a disappointment. It will be a popcorn movie. It will not be a movie which will be an occasional topic in a school course on media and society as T1 was and still is. I think it is a sad state of affairs that Wall-E and Happy Feet stick in the consciousness of people more than a story which touches upon the role of humanity within technology.



T1 had Linda Hamilton's breasts. 'nuff said.

jnp
20th May 09, 10:03 AM
T1 had Linda Hamilton's breasts. 'nuff said.
*checks memory file*

I have no record of that.

*scurries off to rent T1*

jkdbuck76
20th May 09, 11:28 AM
*checks memory file*

I have no record of that.

*scurries off to rent T1*

Yes. They were nice.

Back then.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th May 09, 11:49 AM
Let us remember:

http://geekofalltrades.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/robocop-792844bmp.jpg

Robocop. Paul Verhoeven had to cut this movie to keep if from getting an "X" rating....not pussy-assed NC-17 motherfuckers.....X. Like Warhol Dracula and Frankenstein X.

What do we get next?
Comics (approved by the CCA!)
http://leesullivanart.co.uk/LEE/ROBOCOP/marvel-1.jpg.jpeg

looking suspiciously like:
http://www.popculturemadness.com/Entertainment/News/Images/Rom.jpg


need I remind you of, action figures:
http://www.nabemahobbies.com/images/products/original/539.jpg

arcade games:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/Robocoparc.png/180px-Robocoparc.png

home games:
https://egameforless.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/r/o/robocop.jpg

Topps trading cards and stickers:
http://i39.tinypic.com/swe2rd.jpg

and finally, a cartoon:

GaZGEFE30U0

Artful Dentures
20th May 09, 12:29 PM
Not for children? That's where we disagree. Besides, suggesting "but they all do it" isn't a particularly good argument as to why it should not ultimately be a disappointment.

T1 was not for children.

T+1 were all for children.




I already own two of the bobble heads.

And, I did not predict the movie would "suck". I said that ultimately, it will be a disappointment. It will be a popcorn movie. It will not be a movie which will be an occasional topic in a school course on media and society as T1 was and still is. I think it is a sad state of affairs that Wall-E and Happy Feet stick in the consciousness of people more than a story which touches upon the role of humanity within technology.



T1 had Linda Hamilton's breasts. 'nuff said.

Well frankly T-1 was a low budget pop corn thriller in the same genre of many women in peril movies fo the 80's, that just happened to be amazing because the director was amazing.

It's intentions were never that lofty

So this really does follow the same intentions (execution maybe not)

On a side not I have always felt the best test of a directors ability was to take something shlocky and make it great and significant, like Cameron and Paul Verhoven.

Making a poignant movie about the Holocaust is easy, making a poignant movie about a killing machine from the future or a robotic cop, much harder.

Tom Kagan
20th May 09, 01:24 PM
Well frankly T-1 was a low budget pop corn thriller in the same genre of many women in peril movies fo the 80's, that just happened to be amazing because the director was amazing.

Actually, what made it good was the story ... and also Schwarzenegger telling the director he was a fucking idiot for wanting him in the role of Kyle Reese.


Making a poignant movie about the Holocaust is easy, making a poignant movie about a killing machine from the future or a robotic cop, much harder.

And why bother when PG-13 might get a Happy Meal tie-in for the studio?

Shawarma
20th May 09, 01:36 PM
I miss Robocoppy movies. Very little in the way of redeeming features, just nasty, grey, misanthropic nihilism. I think Sin City captured a bit of that old feeling, but its characters had far too many heroic sides to them (despite being a bunch of sociopaths) to hit that pure 80ies grit feeling.

Artful Dentures
20th May 09, 02:10 PM
Actually, what made it good was the story ... and also Schwarzenegger telling the director he was a fucking idiot for wanting him in the role of Kyle Reese.



And why bother when PG-13 might get a Happy Meal tie-in for the studio?

Plenty of movies with great stories have been ruined by shitty directors

Directors have a huge input on the story.

There are very few directors who could have made the source material that much better.

And yes Arnold made a great decision playing the Terminator.

This movie won't be awesome or suck because of it's rating it's all on McG's shoulders.

I am already starting to read mixed reviews.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th May 09, 02:11 PM
The only thing I have read is one reviewer called it the loudest movie he has ever seen.

Tom Kagan
21st May 09, 09:46 AM
Plenty of movies with great stories have been ruined by shitty directors

Directors have a huge input on the story.

There are very few directors who could have made the source material that much better.

And yes Arnold made a great decision playing the Terminator.

This movie won't be awesome or suck because of it's rating it's all on McG's shoulders.

I am already starting to read mixed reviews.


I think I haven't quite gotten across the point of my rant.

It's irrelevant whether the movie is awesome or sucky. Regardless of whether it's a summer 'must see' blockbuster, I predict it will ultimately be a disappointment because it will be fluff.


Maybe this will make it clearer:

I like popcorn. But, ultimately as food, it is quite unsatisfying.


PG-13 + Terminator bobble heads marketed to 8 year old kiddies = popcorn.

EuropIan
21st May 09, 09:49 AM
a good analogy would be AvP(pg-13) vs. AvP Requiem (R)

one of these movies is more enjoyable than the other.

Phrost
21st May 09, 10:47 AM
I had no idea Terminator was written by Harlan Ellison.

That's awesome.

elipson
21st May 09, 12:00 PM
a good analogy would be AvP(pg-13) vs. AvP Requiem (R)

one of these movies is more enjoyable than the other.

I actually felt AvP was better than the sequel. Requiem did get props though for having some of the most disturbing scenes I've ever seen in a movie, so that was cool. Mostly the hospital scene.

Neildo
21st May 09, 12:54 PM
i liked it when the kid got the facehugger. pwnt!



anyways, i didn't have high expectations for this movie and the terminator franchise anyways (sarah connor chronicles cancelled pwnt) i just like christian bale movies FUCKINFUCKSAKEARGHAHDADADADA

Robot Jesus
21st May 09, 01:05 PM
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9544/nuffsaid.jpg

I think I made my point

EuropIan
21st May 09, 01:08 PM
if it was Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle on the other hand.

Neildo
21st May 09, 01:19 PM
what? he did both, look.

i liked them anyway. they are repeatedly watchable, despite not being very good.

Robot Jesus
21st May 09, 02:12 PM
with a sufficiently high rating they could have been the best movie's ever.

Fearless Ukemi
21st May 09, 04:04 PM
Robocop stuff




Never saw the movie back in the day, so I picked up the director's cut last year. That movie is hardcore.

Plus it took a while to get used to the idea of that guy from That 70's Show playing such a mean sonofabitch.

Tom Kagan
21st May 09, 04:17 PM
I had no idea Terminator was written by Harlan Ellison.

That's awesome.


Actually, Harlan Elison wrote the story as an episode of "The Outer Limits" which aired in August, 1964. T1 was a blatant rip off of that story. They were sued and lost big time. After the court battle, subsequent releases of T1 include "Based on a story by Harlan Elison" in the credits.


I was born a few days before the Outer Limits episode aired. The scientist who created the time machine was named Tom Kagan.

Fearless Ukemi
21st May 09, 04:22 PM
I always wondered why they couldn't encase one of their futuristic weapons in living tissue and send that through time with the terminator. I mean, the terminator was basically just a machine encased in flesh. Wouldn't be easier to do that with a weapon?

Robot Jesus
21st May 09, 04:30 PM
my thoughts exactly, just hollow out a cow and give a gift wrapped minigun.

or hell, just send back nukes; why bother looking for Ms Connor at all.

Cullion
21st May 09, 05:10 PM
my thoughts exactly, just hollow out a cow and give a gift wrapped minigun.

Why bother? there are miniguns in this era. The weapons of the future weren't that awesome, just bright blue firework stuff that didn't make that huge a bang when it hit.



or hell, just send back nukes; why bother looking for Ms Connor at all.

Because then Skynet might have destroyed it's own creators too, dullard.

elipson
21st May 09, 05:30 PM
Also the terminator on his own was pretty fucking awesome in terms of being a weapon. The first movie also stated that skynet was basically defeated when they sent T1 back in time, so it's possible they didnt have time to fine tune it.

Fearless Ukemi
21st May 09, 05:33 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of Reese and his inability to bring a weapon that could one shot Arnold.

But now I realize the flaw in my thinking because it was Skynet that could create cyborgs, not the resistance.

RickTheCritic
21st May 09, 07:43 PM
If Terminator 1/2 were rated using today's system it would be pg-13

I cant hate on studios leveraging a brand name to make extra money

so thread fails

OZZ
21st May 09, 07:59 PM
Both the Terminator sequels were dissapointing..I don't see why this should be any different.
R Rating = less $$..therefore ,suckage galore.
The first one is a sci fi classic and one of the best movies of the eighties.It was all downhill after that. The sequels are not terrible, but they aren't as good as they could (or should )have been.

elipson
22nd May 09, 01:49 AM
The first one was awesome because it was original not because it was rated R.

But you can't keep the same idea original for multiple sequels (re: Jurassic Park, The Matrix, Robocop, and probably Transformers 2). The Best you can do is build off the once-original idea and at least tell a good story (Re: Maybe Pirates 2 and X-men 2? Maybe).


I just got back from T4. How was it?

I'm not telling :P

partyboy
22nd May 09, 08:48 AM
currently has a rating of 52 on metacritic :(

mrblackmagic
22nd May 09, 09:36 AM
I saw it last night. It wasn't groundbreaking, but was entertaining. MCG didn't reinvent the wheel. The plot is obvious and formulaic. The cinematography was really good. The Cormac McCarthy influences were present throughout. Thankfully, there was no wire-fu whatsoever in the film or no smiling to the camera. They do say the trademark lines

There are a few disparities. My biggest one was how powerful Marcus was in relation to the other terminators.


Not for children? That's where we disagree. Besides, suggesting "but they all do it" isn't a particularly good argument as to why it should not ultimately be a disappointment.

T1 was not for children.

T+1 were all for children.


I'm not suggesting the bandwagon argument, Tom. I was disagreeing with your argument that shitty merchandising reflects actual movie and its content. Tie-ins are the cash cow of summer films and rarely reflect the target audience. Toit!

elipson
22nd May 09, 11:48 AM
Blackmagic is correct.

It's a war movie, with cool special effects and killer badass robots.

The plotline IS fairly predictable, but that didn't really bother me. Lots of explosions and cool fights scenes. The characters weren't corny. Little or no love interest in the story, and I'm ok with that.

You're not gonna tear up watching this movie and I doubt you will have any deep thoughts about human nature, but it is worth seeing in the theatre.

Tom Kagan
24th May 09, 09:46 PM
If Terminator 1/2 were rated using today's system it would be pg-13

You'd be wrong. At a minimum, both would require re-editing to make the blood more stylized and the carnage less raw.


I cant hate on studios leveraging a brand name to make extra money

I can. I have far more disposable income than 97% of the country. Yet, they aren't interested in my demographic because I'm not stupid enough to to have my wallet vacuumed. They are too lazy most of the time to even try.



Tie-ins are the cash cow of summer films and rarely reflect the target audience. Toit!

Yes, they do reflect the target audience. This movie isn't targeted at me. It's targeted at the parent who'd rather be their kid's friend and give in to their kid's incessant nagging that all the other kids have seen it eight times already and have all the action figures.


I actually *want* my kids to see T1. The only question is how old should they be when I feel it would be okay to allow them to do so. T3/T4? Who really gives a fuck if the never see these? I won't because they wouldn't have missed anything significant.

Neildo
25th May 09, 01:30 AM
I actually *want* my kids to see T1. The only question is how old should they be when I feel it would be okay to allow them to do so.

i owned my first copy at 11, and look how i turned out.

Tom Kagan
25th May 09, 05:06 PM
i owned my first copy at 11, and look how i turned out.

So one vote for after they graduate college. Gotcha.

Spade: The Real Snake
26th May 09, 08:14 AM
I actually *want* my kids to see T1. The only question is how old should they be when I feel it would be okay to allow them to do so. T3/T4? Who really gives a fuck if the never see these? I won't because they wouldn't have missed anything significant..

As someone who would generally be considered a poor role-model for children's viewing habits.......

......we took the (in a few weeks) 9 y/o boy to see Terminator: Salvation. He liked the movie on it's base level, a Sci-Fi actioner with robots and stuff blowing up. Prior to seeing it, we let him watch T:2, which he liked, but less so then T:4. The concept of "Judgement Day" bothered him and the idea of the world ending unsettled him, and I just explained it is a movie and at this juncture, he need not worry about machines becoming sentient.

Neildo
26th May 09, 08:19 AM
my dad made sure to assure me of the same thing, mid-movie. i was like yeah dad shhh arnie is shooting something.

Tom Kagan
26th May 09, 08:38 AM
... I just explained it is a movie and at this juncture, he need not worry about machines becoming sentient.

The singularity will happen within his lifetime.



You should have instead taken him to see Night at the Museum 2 - quite good. There's also a brief send-up to 300 within it. Apparently, it even whooped T-4's metallic ass at the box office this weekend.

Spade: The Real Snake
26th May 09, 12:10 PM
The singularity will happen within his lifetime.
Hopefully not to the extent shown and certainly not something he need try to wrap his 8-9 y/o mind around at bedtime.....




You should have instead taken him to see Night at the Museum 2 - quite good. There's also a brief send-up to 300 within it. Apparently, it even whooped T-4's metallic ass at the box office this weekend.
I'm going to take him Friday. The wife wanted to see T-4 and really, really didn't want to watch Night At The Museum.....so trade off was we all see T-4 Sunday after I got off work and I would take him Friday, as I am off.

Tom Kagan
28th May 09, 04:45 PM
The wife wanted to see T-4 and really, really didn't want to watch Night At The Museum.....so trade off was we all see T-4 Sunday after I got off work and I would take him Friday, as I am off.


Please don't take this the wrong way - I'm not trying to tell you how to raise your kid. While I don't feel my child would be ready to see T-4, perhaps yours is. Still ...

You didn't take your kid to see T-4 because you thought it would be a great movie for him to see. You took him because *you* wanted to see it with the company of your wife, then said to yourself: "Bah! Who needs a sitter? He'll be fine." Well ... that's kid logic. Perhaps you need reminding you're the grown up.

Spade: The Real Snake
28th May 09, 04:54 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way - I'm not trying to tell you how to raise your kid. While I don't feel my child would be ready to see T-4, perhaps yours is. Still ...

You didn't take your kid to see T-4 because you thought it would be a great movie for him to see. You took him because *you* wanted to see it with the company of your wife, then said to yourself: "Bah! Who needs a sitter? He'll be fine." Well ... that's kid logic. Perhaps you need reminding you're the grown up.

I don't take that the wrong way, not in the least and fully understand and see your point.

OZZ
29th May 09, 11:37 AM
Better than I expected, but they couldn't resist leaving room for two or more movies with the ending.
Moon Bloodgod is hot, but what the hell kind of name is that?
Chrisitan Bale had the show stolen from him by Worthington. He was the best character in the movie.

elipson
29th May 09, 01:50 PM
If worthington is the name of the machine goodguy, then i TOTALLY agree. His character and the actor were quite awesome.

Ajamil
29th May 09, 02:15 PM
Which char was Worthington? And I liked younf Reese. I don't think they put anything in the movie that needs retconning with what original Reese said.

mrblackmagic
30th May 09, 09:12 AM
Anton Yelchin was Reese.

cuatro76
2nd June 09, 10:09 PM
I liked all the little references to T1&2. Like Marcus showing Reese the trick about tying a cord to his shotgun to keep it from being stolen - Reese does that in T1. The GNR song playing on the stereo when Connor ambushes the motorcycle terminator was cool too.

The only thing I don't get was how Reese's name ended up at the top of Skynet's most wanted list. How would Skynet know, at that point in time, who Kyle Reese was.

Overall a pretty good movie. Not quite as good as Star Trek, but still worth the $8.

elipson
2nd June 09, 10:44 PM
The GNR song playing on the stereo when Connor ambushes the motorcycle terminator was cool too.


Lane Staley just rolled over in his grave upon hearing that. Get your grunge bands straight.

It's logical that Skynet would know about Reese.

T1. Reese and Arny go back in time. Connor lives, so skynet knows that Reese succeeds in protecting Sarah Connor. Also, Reese was questioned by the police in the first movie, so his name would be on record.

T3. Skynet is pissed that Connor lives so sends a crazy hot robot back in time to a) kill off John and his partners and b) to kick off Judgement day by releasing itself as a virus onto the world. The virus that is released IS skynet and knows full well who Kyle Reese is, so therefore the Skynet of Judgement day knows who he is in advance.

cuatro76
2nd June 09, 10:58 PM
Lane Staley just rolled over in his grave upon hearing that. Get your grunge bands straight.

Oh, I think you are mistaken! Rooster, the Alice in Chains song, was playing on the car stereo when Reese and Marcus start up the Jeep when they flee LA. You could be Mine by Guns and Roses (NOT a grunge band btw) was playing when John Connor set up the cable across the highway to catch the motorcycle terminator. e used the stereo as bait.

elipson
3rd June 09, 01:35 AM
I stand corrected. I actually didn't notice the GNR part in the movie, probably because I'm not a huge fan like I am for Alice in Chains.

Ajamil
3rd June 09, 12:56 PM
T1. Reese and Arny go back in time. Connor lives, so skynet knows that Reese succeeds in protecting Sarah Connor. Also, Reese was questioned by the police in the first movie, so his name would be on record.
That, or when Sarah was in the mental hospital is what I was thinking.


T3. Skynet is pissed that Reese lives so sends a crazy hot robot back in time to a) kill off Reese and his partners and b) to kick off Judgement day by releasing itself as a virus onto the world. The virus that is released IS skynet and knows full well who Kyle Reese is, so therefore the Skynet of Judgement day knows who he is in advance.

When in T3 was the femme terminator going after Reese?

elipson
3rd June 09, 01:38 PM
Doh. Editted. Too many names, too many kids, too many temporal paradoxs.