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Sirc
23rd April 09, 11:42 AM
http://www.examiner.com/x-4112-Skepticism-Examiner%7Ey2009m4d22-Just-shoot-me


Bill Nye "The Science Guy" was booed in Waco, Texas for suggesting the Moon did not generate its own light, but reflected light from the sun.

Trouble started when the children's entertainer brought up Genesis 1:16, which reads: "God made two great lights -- the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars," and pointed out that the lesser light was actually a reflector.
At this point, several people in the audience stormed out, including woman with three small children who shouted, "We believe in God!" and left.

Nye was taking part in McLennan Community College's Distinguished Lecture Series, giving talks on global warming, Mars exploration, and energy consumption, but it was the moon thing that got them.

According to Morgan Matthew, "This story originally appeared in the Waco Tribune, but the newspaper has mysteriously pulled its story from the online version, presumably to avoid further embarrassment."

WTF. Bill Nye was one of my childhood heroes. If Bill Nye came to my school as a kid to teach me a science lesson, I would no doubt, have let him molest me.

Fuck these assholes.

WarPhalange
23rd April 09, 11:48 AM
LOL @ TEXAS

Okay, so I try to defend southern folk by saying "oh, it's just the fringe lunatics that are so fucking crazy", but come on, at some point you just have to realize that these lunatics are the majority!

God damn.

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd April 09, 12:02 PM
Next thing you know, that faggot Nye will tell me it isn't made of sweet, delicious cheese.

Phrost
23rd April 09, 12:11 PM
Sounds about right. Like Jesus did for the Jews though, Austin redeems Texas of all its sins.

WarPhalange
23rd April 09, 12:19 PM
So Austin is a haven for gay, black, atheist scientists?

nihilist
23rd April 09, 12:20 PM
HE'S NOT CHRISTIAN!!!

Steve
23rd April 09, 12:27 PM
Huh, can't say I'm surprised that a few people got their panties in a bunch.

I may have mentioned that Bill once came into my shop and bought some shoes for his kid (I'm assuming they were for his kid, they were maryjane style shoes that didn't look his size). I got his autograph but he wasn't as warm as I would have imagined. I guess that makes sense, being all crazy awesome on TV all the time would take it out of a person...




.

Kid Miracleman
23rd April 09, 12:27 PM
:(

Sirc
23rd April 09, 12:43 PM
Huh, can't say I'm surprised that a few people got their panties in a bunch.

I may have mentioned that Bill once came into my shop and bought some shoes for his kid (I'm assuming they were for his kid, they were maryjane style shoes that didn't look his size). I got his autograph but he wasn't as warm as I would have imagined. I guess that makes sense, being all crazy awesome on TV all the time would take it out of person...

I would love to meet the fucker.

DerAuslander108
23rd April 09, 12:44 PM
Sounds about right. Like Jesus did for the Jews though, Austin redeems Texas of all its sins.

Austin...Austin?

Are you fucking serious?

Steve
23rd April 09, 12:53 PM
I would love to meet the fucker.

He's wandered around the U District here in Seattle a number of times, haven't seen him in years though, now that I think about it.

Phrost
23rd April 09, 12:54 PM
Austin is the Seattle of the south, only sans the invisible hand of Starbucks up everyone's asses.

Steve
23rd April 09, 01:17 PM
Only idiots that like their coffee made via the push of a button drink at Starbucks, WTF, Phrost?

Oh, and I hardly think that anyone in Seattle would boo Bill Nye off of any stage.

EuropIan
23rd April 09, 01:18 PM
^ Well that makes sense, since I was born in Austin, Tx.

This is what Texas congressmen, Joe Barton, uploaded to his own youtube channel because he thought he was clever.
pgKepHebKRc
Let me repeat that: He uploaded this to his own youtube channel because he thought he was clever.

Perhaps that secession idea isn't that bad an idea..

partyboy
23rd April 09, 01:20 PM
durrrrrr, texas

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd April 09, 01:22 PM
Seattle has a better train system and, thus is smiled upon by Obama

Ka-Bar
23rd April 09, 02:00 PM
Not all Texans are like that. There are pockets of intelligencia in Austin, Houston, San Antonio, and to a lesser extent, College Station and Lubbock.

But they're only pockets, and unfortunately mostly confined to college campuses.

Antifa
23rd April 09, 02:01 PM
Now you people know why I got the fuck out

Antifa
23rd April 09, 02:05 PM
http://www.ciadaescola.com.br/zoom/imgs/343/image002.jpg

Perhaps we havent gotten so far from here in the last 500 years

Zendetta
23rd April 09, 02:10 PM
Now you people know why I got the fuck out

Where the fuck have you been? Do you only come out to cap on Texas, or what?

Fearless Ukemi
23rd April 09, 02:10 PM
Well, he didn't have to bring up religion to say the moon does not emit it's own light, rather it reflects the light of an entirely different light source.

Know your audience.

mrblackmagic
23rd April 09, 02:14 PM
Well, he didn't have to bring up religion to say the moon does not emit it's own light, rather it reflects the light of an entirely different light source.

Know your audience.

Well, he did start it.

jnp
23rd April 09, 02:16 PM
*considers the possibility that his opinion on the general level of education in his state is shaped by living in the city with the most highly educated populace*


Austin...Austin?

Are you fucking serious?
Yes he's serious. What of it Buddha boy? What do you have in Baltimore? Crabs?

Where I come from, we treat that shit at the clinic.

Ok, who am I kidding, I love crustaceans.


Stupid fundamentalists. Oh look, I made an oxymoron.

Antifa
23rd April 09, 02:26 PM
very busy... being bourgeious

Zendetta
23rd April 09, 02:35 PM
very busy... being bourgeious

lol. Well, its a full-time job.

Antifa
23rd April 09, 02:38 PM
not today... I gave myself the day off

mrm1775
23rd April 09, 03:05 PM
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9599/doublefacepalmrickerpic.jpg

Stupid redneck fundamentalists.

Steve
23rd April 09, 03:12 PM
That is such a horrible photo shop^. Picard's left arm is totally freaking me out.

EuropIan
23rd April 09, 03:19 PM
Stupid fundamentalists. Oh look, I made an oxymoron.
Pleonasm, actually.

Unless you were being an ironic Texan.

jnp
23rd April 09, 03:24 PM
Pleonasm, actually.

Unless you were being an ironic Texan.
If you knew me, you'd know the answer.

Phrost
23rd April 09, 03:34 PM
True story: my small town Texas school board banned Batman T-shirts shortly after the Michael Keaton remake because the character "looked like the devil".

Texas would be just about fucking perfect if it had one massive Christian colonic.

Maybe we should conspire to set in motion some events that resemble the Rapture, and buy a fleet of balloons that offer "advance rides to Heaven". But by Heaven, we mean, the Gulf of Mexico, and by "rides" we mean "will mysteriously explode somewhere over the...".

Antifa
23rd April 09, 03:37 PM
True story: my small town Texas school board banned Batman T-shirts shortly after the Michael Keaton remake because the character "looked like the devil".

Texas would be just about fucking perfect if it had one massive Christian colonic.

Maybe we should conspire to set in motion some events that resemble the Rapture, and buy a fleet of balloons that offer "advance rides to Heaven". But by Heaven, we mean, the Gulf of Mexico, and by "rides" we mean "will mysteriously explode somewhere over the...".

aCbfMkh940Q

partyboy
23rd April 09, 03:37 PM
more texas stupidity - http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Cop_handcuffs_reporter_for_covering_traffic_0422.h tml

EuropIan
23rd April 09, 03:39 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to just have all the smart Texans move out and then have them secede?

f4n4n
23rd April 09, 03:43 PM
Hey smart boy with your smart answers, go stand over there in the corner until we decided how we are going to punish you. Fucking infidels... oh wait...

TheLordHumungus
23rd April 09, 03:46 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to just have all the smart Texans move out and then have them secede?

How smart are they if they haven't moved yet?

Phrost
23rd April 09, 03:55 PM
That's what we've already done with California. Bastards won't ever get around to Step 2 though.

DerAuslander108
23rd April 09, 04:05 PM
Yes he's serious. What of it Buddha boy? What do you have in Baltimore? Crabs?

Where I come from, we treat that shit at the clinic.

Ok, who am I kidding, I love crustaceans.

San Antonio > Austin

Sirc
23rd April 09, 04:13 PM
California and Texas are the same states on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Zendetta
23rd April 09, 04:14 PM
They are the Jekyll/Hyde of each other for sure.

HappyOldGuy
23rd April 09, 04:21 PM
By which we mean the awesome and the suck.

Cullion
23rd April 09, 04:21 PM
I'm really sorry guys. I'm always forgetting why some of the atheists on this board are so vehemently anti-religion.

I had the luxury of growing up in a country where things like this basically don't happen. Atheism to me is an intellectual position, not a something I have to defend against screaming loons from another century in person.

Most English people are quietly atheist or agnostic but like the old-fashioned ceremony and pagentry of Christmas, Church weddings etc.. It's all very polite, balanced and sane. People who noisily argue about disestablishing the Church of England or removing the word 'Christmas' from publicly-funded street-lights in December just seem.. a bit gauche to the rest of us.

I can't really imagine what it would be like to live somewhere that apparently ordinary looking co-workers or people you trained with actually, literally believed that the Moon glowed from inside because a translated transcription of some 3000 year old legends said so.

partyboy
23rd April 09, 04:25 PM
trade me, cullion?

Sirc
23rd April 09, 04:26 PM
honestly though, I'd rather be living in texas.

Why?

Because. The stupid bullshit laws and restrictions here in california, not only impede my rights, but are also fucking INFURIATING.

The stupid bullshit laws in Texas kind of blow my rights out of proportion and are just generally hilarious. Like the bigger and newer truck lane, instead of california's fast lane.

Cullion
23rd April 09, 04:26 PM
trade me, cullion?

alright. we'll try it for a month. you have to pay my mortgage though. you can fuck my wife too. you hurt one hair on my children's heads and I will crush you.

what's your girlfriend like ?

Sirc
23rd April 09, 04:28 PM
I'm really sorry guys. I'm always forgetting why some of the atheists on this board are so vehemently anti-religion.

I had the luxury of growing up in a country where things like this basically don't happen. Atheism to me is an intellectual position, not a something I have to defend against screaming loons from another century in person.

Most English people are quietly atheist or agnostic but like the old-fashioned ceremony and pagentry of Christmas, Church weddings etc.. It's all very polite, balanced and sane. People who noisily argue about disestablishing the Church of England or removing the word 'Christmas' from publicly-funded street-lights in December just seem.. a bit gauche to the rest of us.

I can't really imagine what it would be like to live somewhere that apparently ordinary looking co-workers or people you trained with actually, literally believed that the Moon glowed from inside because a translated transcription of some 3000 year old legends said so.

Yes, but your country is also about 1000 years older than ours. You have the benefit of history and have already gone through your crazy fucker stages.

HappyOldGuy
23rd April 09, 04:28 PM
honestly though, I'd rather be living in texas.

Why?

Because. The stupid bullshit laws and restrictions here in california, not only impede my rights, but are also fucking INFURIATING.

The stupid bullshit laws in Texas kind of blow my rights out of proportion and are just generally hilarious. Like the bigger and newer truck lane, instead of california's fast lane.

You wouldn't last 5 minutes. Texas sounds really cool, but when you get there you find out it's full of Texans.

Zendetta
23rd April 09, 04:32 PM
There are some hot babes there, though.

HappyOldGuy
23rd April 09, 04:34 PM
There are some hot babes there, though.

The CEO at my last company had a habit of hiring hot blonde nurses from Texas for our salespeople. He had to keep hiring new ones though, because the hot had a very short shelflife.

Cullion
23rd April 09, 04:41 PM
Yes, but your country is also about 1000 years older than ours. You have the benefit of history and have already gone through your crazy fucker stages.

Hmm.. I don't know about that. Americans are the descendents of people who brought different cultures with them from other old civilisations and tried to build something new in a new place. Our culture isn't 'older' than yours, just our buildings (excluding some of your native-American stuff, obviously).

It's not like you guys just hatched out of caves and got taught English by missionaries.

One thing.. A lot of the British-descended part of your ruling class are the descendants of puritanical Christians who left Britain out of choice because they felt persecuted, on account of their religious views seeming so extreme and outside the norm, and then got a chance to just.. go with it.. in the wilderness of early America.

The rest of the British got to fight repeatedly over whether Catholicism or Protestanism was gayer. This conflict isn't quite dead. You still find its traces in Northern Ireland and Glasgow.

But the experience basically taught most of us to treat religion as a private thing that you just don't argue about in public or over dinner. Not because it's illegal, but just because it's... rude.

Whereas a chunk of the British and European culture you inherited from us was carried over by iconoclastic and puritanical religous nutbars, basically.

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd April 09, 04:41 PM
Sirc just wants to run over armadillos with his Impreza

Fearless Ukemi
23rd April 09, 04:46 PM
Funny you guys bring up Texas and California as Jekyl and Hyde. I was having this exact discussion with two of my coworkers just this week.

In no particular, the dumbest clients we have all come from the following states: Texas, California, and Florida

Cullion
23rd April 09, 04:47 PM
The CEO at my last company had a habit of hiring hot blonde nurses from Texas for our salespeople. He had to keep hiring new ones though, because the hot had a very short shelflife.

Can you PM me with the name of the company pls?

The 'southern belle' accent is, um, special for me.

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd April 09, 04:50 PM
Has Bill Nye yet been able to disprove that the sun does indeed revolve around California?

HappyOldGuy
23rd April 09, 04:51 PM
Can you PM me with the name of the company pls?

The 'southern belle' accent is, um, special for me.

It no existee no more.

Also, if it's the accent you're after, you want Georgia, not Texas. Trust me.

Cullion
23rd April 09, 04:54 PM
Alright. Georgia it is.

Georgia Tech had an annual summer school at my college in Oxford. As a postgrad I was there when they turned up to use the accomodation. There were some _amazing_ looking women amongst them.

To be honest though, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Texas and a Georgia accent. To me it would all just be 'southern'.

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd April 09, 04:57 PM
Alright. Georgia it is.

Georgia Tech had an annual summer school at my college in Oxford. As a postgrad I was there when they turned up to use the accomodation. There were some _amazing_ looking women amongst them.

To be honest though, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Texas and a Georgia accent. To me it would all just be 'southern'.

This is exactly how we feel with British, Scottish, Welsh and Irish.

Sirc
23rd April 09, 05:11 PM
You wouldn't last 5 minutes. Texas sounds really cool, but when you get there you find out it's full of Texans.

I've been to texas a lot due to TKD. Those assholes love me over there.

jnp
23rd April 09, 05:19 PM
San Antonio > Austin
I disagree.

Then again, I'm a sucker for watching the red tailed hawks wheel and turn while hunting field mice at sunset in the hill country. Myself not included, there are no stupid Texans around those cedar strewn hills at that time of day.

There's also all the natural springs all over thanks to the Edwards Aquifer. Most of them have been gathering places for the locals since before the white man got here.

I admit the springs hold spiritual significance to me. Reading all that mythology as a kid made me something of an animist.

Oh and did I mention that it's legal for women to go topless around ALL of downtown Austin and at Barton Springs?

Take that riverwalk in San Antonio.



Oh dear. I seem to have a trend of injecting my love for Austin into any thread that concerns Texas. Damn Texans and their foolish Pride.

Cullion
23rd April 09, 05:24 PM
This is exactly how we feel with British, Scottish, Welsh and Irish.

Serious ?

I can understand somebody having trouble with the difference between scots and Irish accents, but Welsh and English? Pretty different.

I can't even tell if I'm being trolled here.

Antifa
23rd April 09, 05:26 PM
I disagree.

Then again, I'm a sucker for watching the red tailed hawks wheel and turn while hunting field mice at sunset in the hill country. Myself not included, there are no stupid Texans around those cedar strewn hills at that time of day.

There's also all the natural springs all over thanks to the Edwards Aquifer. Most of them have been gathering places for the locals since before the white man got here.

I admit the springs hold spiritual significance to me. Reading all that mythology as a kid made me something of an animist.

Oh and did I mention that it's legal for women to go topless around ALL of downtown Austin and at Barton Springs?

Take that riverwalk in San Antonio.



Oh dear. I seem to have a trend of injecting my love for Austin into any thread that concerns Texas. Damn Texans and their foolish Pride.

Actually its legal in Columbus Ohio too. I used to work for the lawyer who won the case. Woman got arrested breast feeding on a bus. My guy took it to trial, law off books.

There were strippers handing out flyers topless in front of the statehouse the very next day.

My boss was so impressed with himself.

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd April 09, 05:32 PM
Serious ?

I can understand somebody having trouble with the difference between scots and Irish accents, but Welsh and English? Pretty different.

I can't even tell if I'm being trolled here.
Just a little trolling. You all sound like Christian Bale to me.

It is as easy for you to discern seemingly dissimilar accents you hear with regularity as it is for us. Granted there will always be a ringer here, based on educational, residential or socioeconomic factors, there but most people with some manner of southern ties can tell the difference.

Cullion
23rd April 09, 05:41 PM
The reason it's confusing for me is that the UK has a weird characteristic. Even foreigners say they can hear huge differences in accent between people from cities or regions a very short distance apart, whereas in lots of countries, like France or the US, that doesn't seem to be the case so much.

Maybe this is just a myth that I've picked up.

Cullion
23rd April 09, 05:46 PM
Here's an example:-

This is a Glasgow accent (south-western Scotland)

tIU4A2oPOUo

This is a Newcastle accent (north-eastern England)

Zwx0-oewjsM

They're only a 156 miles apart.

If I picked two cities 150-ish miles apart in the US, would the accents sound so different to you or I ?

partyboy
23rd April 09, 05:53 PM
what's your girlfriend like ?

she's a southern belle from georgia...


yeah, I dig the accent too

Cullion
23rd April 09, 05:56 PM
ithinkwehaveadealbro

DerAuslander108
23rd April 09, 05:58 PM
Actually its legal in Columbus Ohio too. I used to work for the lawyer who won the case. Woman got arrested breast feeding on a bus. My guy took it to trial, law off books.

There were strippers handing out flyers topless in front of the statehouse the very next day.

My boss was so impressed with himself.

I'm in Ohio thrice a year. I wanna buy your boss a drink.

Kiko
23rd April 09, 07:12 PM
Fundamentalists make me just... oh....

http://www.grim-planet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/jesus_facepalm.jpg

Cullion
23rd April 09, 07:15 PM
Kiko have you ever come face to face with a fundamentalist Catholic subculture in the US? or are most of the fundies you encounter Protestants ?

Kiko
23rd April 09, 07:24 PM
I don't suppose I've actually come into contact with any... face to face. One exception. An otherwise very nice, normal couple with their kids (we visited them after meeting through gaming) who were SOOO Christian, that they made me feel like I was nearly heathen. Then again, I'd rather be who/what I am.

For the record, I see NO conflict with what Nye said. Interpretation is a wonderful thing. Those fools chose to be purely literal.

I suppose you mean a totally dogmatic Catholic who insists every tiny law ever made by "The Church" be followed no matter what, eh?

Cullion
23rd April 09, 07:54 PM
It's all so different over there.

One of my best friends is a devout protestant. For my wife's sake, we had our children Christened, and he was one of the godfather's to my eldest. To reiterate, he really, really is very devout in his beliefs.

This is the sum total of what he's said to me on the subject of religion, in the 10 years I've known him:-

(drinking beer in a pub sometime in the first few weeks we met at college)
Him: 'I'm a practicing Christian you know'

Me:'Fair enough. I'm not. It's your round you know'

(Me asking him about his beliefs 6 months to a year later out of curiousity)
Me: 'So how come you believe all that stuff when I know you're smart enough to understand the scientific explanations for the miracles in the Bible?'

Him: 'You've got a point. I haven't changed my mind yet. It's not a logical thing, you know ?'

(Me asking him about what he actually does to practice Christianity, out of curiosity, sometime in the last 6 years. I can't exactly remember when. Definitely more than 2 years ago though)

Me: 'So, uh, what do you actually do at chapel and when you're praying on your own?'

Him: 'Well, I just pray quietly you know. Uh.. don't worry, it won't hurt you'.

(Him trying to persuade me that Christianity is good for you, beginning of last year)
Him: <sends me a book by a former atheist who converted to Christianity>

Me: 'did you send me this book?>

Him: 'Yes. Sorry, I hope that wasn't rude'

Me: 'No it's ok. You should try some of this home brew'.

That's a serious long-running debate between an Atheist and a devout Christian in the UK.

f4n4n
23rd April 09, 07:59 PM
Well I guess by the time you both reached a consensus you both will be about to die, interesting way to deal with it I got to say.

HappyOldGuy
23rd April 09, 08:04 PM
Meh, it's really not that big a deal here. Even in the OP example, Bill Nye went out of his way to poke them with a stick to get that reaction. Other than the "Morans" protesting outside of work (theres an abortion clinic in the building) it has no impact on my life at all. And it's not because I avoid the subject.

Obviously it can be worse other places, but I've lived in pretty fucking christian conservative Orange County, and even that wasn't that bad.

Kiko
23rd April 09, 08:18 PM
Sounds nice, Cullion! I've always found pubs to be rather spiritual places. If the other guy is buying the next round, or you just bought him one, then everyone's blessed, right?

Antifa
23rd April 09, 11:36 PM
I'm in Ohio thrice a year. I wanna buy your boss a drink.

I'll see if I can arrange that.

Antifa
23rd April 09, 11:37 PM
Kiko have you ever come face to face with a fundamentalist Catholic subculture in the US? or are most of the fundies you encounter Protestants ?

protestant

Sirc
23rd April 09, 11:41 PM
Here's an example:-

This is a Glasgow accent (south-western Scotland)

tIU4A2oPOUo

This is a Newcastle accent (north-eastern England)

Zwx0-oewjsM

They're only a 156 miles apart.

If I picked two cities 150-ish miles apart in the US, would the accents sound so different to you or I ?

It really depends.

I mean Fresno people sound very different from Bakersfield people, mostly because Bakersfield people are much less educated than Fresno people. And most Fresno people are educated farmers and such so they have a weird farmer boy texan accent + someone who can enunciate his words.

But like LA to San Diego isn't much of a difference. I think it's much more apparent on the east coast than the west though.

TheLordHumungus
23rd April 09, 11:45 PM
I live not terribly far from Dover, where there was a big thing about teaching creationism in science class. It can get pretty fundamentalist round these parts.

TheLordHumungus
23rd April 09, 11:47 PM
Actually its legal in Columbus Ohio too. I used to work for the lawyer who won the case. Woman got arrested breast feeding on a bus. My guy took it to trial, law off books.

There were strippers handing out flyers topless in front of the statehouse the very next day.

My boss was so impressed with himself.

Did he get a state holiday for something like that? Or at least a statue?

Ka-Bar
23rd April 09, 11:58 PM
They're only a 156 miles apart.

If I picked two cities 150-ish miles apart in the US, would the accents sound so different to you or I ?

Boston and New York are only ~200 miles apart. Very different accents.

Chicago/Detroit, New Orleans/Jackson, Miss., Philadelphia/Baltimore, etc.

Ajamil
24th April 09, 12:50 AM
http://www.sociocide.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6647&d=1240325445

Hey, I got to use it!

Neildo
24th April 09, 01:23 AM
I'm really sorry guys. I'm always forgetting why some of the atheists on this board are so vehemently anti-religion.

I had the luxury of growing up in a country where things like this basically don't happen. Atheism to me is an intellectual position, not a something I have to defend against screaming loons from another century in person.

Most English people are quietly atheist or agnostic but like the old-fashioned ceremony and pagentry of Christmas, Church weddings etc.. It's all very polite, balanced and sane. People who noisily argue about disestablishing the Church of England or removing the word 'Christmas' from publicly-funded street-lights in December just seem.. a bit gauche to the rest of us.

I can't really imagine what it would be like to live somewhere that apparently ordinary looking co-workers or people you trained with actually, literally believed that the Moon glowed from inside because a translated transcription of some 3000 year old legends said so.

this reminds me of our friend sun wukong. he's from the south and has experienced the absolute mind-numbing retardedness that is fundamental christianity first-hand. there are plenty of normal people who happen to be christians and look at people like fred phelps and facepalm so hard it makes baby jesus cry.

do you still get to use 'christmas' over there? we have to use happy holidays now. i blame jews and muslims. that's right. they ruined christmas.

TheLordHumungus
24th April 09, 01:25 AM
Here's an example:-

This is a Glasgow accent (south-western Scotland)

tIU4A2oPOUo

This is a Newcastle accent (north-eastern England)

Zwx0-oewjsM

They're only a 156 miles apart.

If I picked two cities 150-ish miles apart in the US, would the accents sound so different to you or I ?

Wow, having dealt with everything from a Brooklyn accent to a Boston accent to a Texan accent, I have to say that the 2 you presented took a good deal of effort to figure out. I may mock my fellow Americans for their accents, but those are almost separate languages.

TheLordHumungus
24th April 09, 01:28 AM
this reminds me of our friend sun wukong. he's from the south and has experienced the absolute mind-numbing retardedness that is fundamental christianity first-hand. there are plenty of normal people who happen to be christians and look at people like fred phelps and facepalm so hard it makes baby jesus cry.

do you still get to use 'christmas' over there? we have to use happy holidays now. i blame jews and muslims. that's right. they ruined christmas.

I'm still pissed at American conservatives. They ask that we be tolerant of their Christmas, but will they smilingly celebrate May Day with us? Fuck no! Douche bags.

Neildo
24th April 09, 01:51 AM
a brit and a scot in conversation

GKmschnepXg

i wanna post the tom jones interview because he's welsh but nobody has uploaded it to youtube i think

EuropIan
24th April 09, 01:56 AM
That culture war bullshit is the Christians own fault, they didn't want the word chrsitmas to be a meaningless term, so they ("culture war"-proponents) try to stress the Christ part. Which is what makes normal people roll their eyes and do stupid shit by calling it "holidays" instead.

Neildo pointed out how language is important for subtext and I think our Christmas is considerably less theistic than some.

e.g. the word "christ" isn't part of the word for this holiday. Instead we use the word "Jul" (yule) which is the ancient name for vinter solstice. Oh sure, the christ stuff is still shoehorned in and xmas sermons are held. Sure, people are made aware that we use a pegan name but we don't really care because like Cullion pointed out it's more of a tradition than actually a faith related ritual.

Another example of this is how areligious a figure santa is here he is called "Julemanden" which translates directly to "The Yuleman"
That's right, in the DK Santa is a super hero like "The Batman" but instead of justice, he spreads presents and good will towards all men.

Oddly enough "santa lucia" is also very popular in schools* but again it's more because of the tradition and the ritual rather than the acknowledgement of the faith connected to it.


wow..that was longer than expected.

Anyways re: dialects

Denmark is fucking small and we have at least 5 very distinct dialects with additional subdialects en masse.

Distances don't mean shit, it's how little or how much a population travels, imo.



*Santa Lucia consists of young women dressed in white with crowns made of pine set with lit candles. They walk around the entire school while singing the "lucia song" and passing out tasty treats.

socratic
24th April 09, 03:57 AM
Wow, having dealt with everything from a Brooklyn accent to a Boston accent to a Texan accent, I have to say that the 2 you presented took a good deal of effort to figure out. I may mock my fellow Americans for their accents, but those are almost separate languages.

One of my several bosses is from Johannesburg. It makes me giggle inside to hear him say anything. It is another language.

SARTH EFRIKA.

Kiko
24th April 09, 06:09 AM
I'm still pissed at American conservatives. They ask that we be tolerant of their Christmas, but will they smilingly celebrate May Day with us? Fuck no! Douche bags.

I would have before I was married.

We should all be tolerant of each other, instead we have to verbally neuterize everything so as not to offend anyone, which sorta offends everyone, doesn't it?

mrm1775
24th April 09, 06:25 AM
I don't suppose I've actually come into contact with any... face to face. One exception. An otherwise very nice, normal couple with their kids (we visited them after meeting through gaming) who were SOOO Christian, that they made me feel like I was nearly heathen. Then again, I'd rather be who/what I am.

For the record, I see NO conflict with what Nye said. Interpretation is a wonderful thing. Those fools chose to be purely literal.

I suppose you mean a totally dogmatic Catholic who insists every tiny law ever made by "The Church" be followed no matter what, eh?
It seems like a truly fundamentalist Catholic is a rare thing. Its probably because of the emphasis the church has historically placed on higher learning. The assumption is that God wants us to be thinking, rational beings.

Willful ignorance is a sin.

Kiko
24th April 09, 06:32 AM
It seems like a truly fundamentalist Catholic is a rare thing. Its probably because of the emphasis the church has historically placed on higher learning. The assumption is that God wants us to be thinking, rational beings.

Willful ignorance is a sin.

Blame the Jesuits. They also teach us that drinking isn't such a sin. I was educated by Sisters of Charity, Franciscans and Jesuits. I kinda lucked out.

jkdbuck76
24th April 09, 06:40 AM
SCREW Bill Nye.

Mr. Wizard could kick his arse! Mr. Wizard FTW!!!

Antifa
24th April 09, 10:17 AM
Did he get a state holiday for something like that? Or at least a statue?

For many of the things he has done he deserves recognition.

He has a specific law practice. He only handles police brutality and misconduct cases. he only works on a contigency basis. he looses you no pay. he wins, the state pays his fees and you give him 1/3rd. He also pays for your criminal defense before launching the civil suit.

Virus
24th April 09, 10:50 AM
The assumption is that God wants us to be thinking, rational beings.

Willful ignorance is a sin.

Except when it comes to claims of virgin births and dead people coming alive again.

Antifa
24th April 09, 10:54 AM
Except when it comes to claims of virgin births and dead people coming alive again. dont forget spontantious generation, 7 days of contintental drift, the sun going around the earth... and... and... oh yeah... the moon has a lightbulb in it,

Virus
24th April 09, 11:06 AM
dont forget spontantious generation, 7 days of contintental drift, the sun going around the earth... and... and... oh yeah... the moon has a lightbulb in it,

and a magic being that make universes, talks to people, writes books, grants magic powers, impregnates women, has kids and then kills his kid which is really himself in order to sacrifice himself to himself to convince himself not to torture people after they die.

HappyOldGuy
24th April 09, 11:06 AM
dont forget spontantious generation, 7 days of contintental drift, the sun going around the earth... and... and... oh yeah... the moon has a lightbulb in it,

Catholics don't believe those things.

The virgin birth is even sorta kinda negotiable.

The dead guy coming back, really isn't tho.

jnp
24th April 09, 11:11 AM
and a magic being that make universes, talks to people, writes books, grants magic powers, impregnates women, has kids and then kills his kid which is really himself in order to sacrifice himself to himself to convince himself not to torture people after they die.
I have a hard time understanding atheist with chips on their shoulders, but maybe that's because I dislike proselytizers, whether they are pro-religion or anti-religion.

You seem like you have something to prove by constantly voicing your anti-religion opinions. Did a pedo priest touch you in the bad place or something?

jkdbuck76
24th April 09, 11:17 AM
dont forget spontantious generation, 7 days of contintental drift, the sun going around the earth... and... and... oh yeah... the moon has a lightbulb in it,

I don't think "the sun going around the earth" is in the bible.

Virus
24th April 09, 11:22 AM
I have a hard time understanding atheist with chips on their shoulders, but maybe that's because I dislike proselytizers, whether they are pro-religion or anti-religion.

You seem like you have something to prove by constantly voicing your anti-religion opinions. Did a pedo priest touch you in the bad place or something?

I live to argue.

jkdbuck76
24th April 09, 11:26 AM
No you don't.

Dammit! Now YOU got me doing it too.

jnp
24th April 09, 11:31 AM
I live to argue.
Well damn. That is a perfectly reasonable answer.

I hope you know Zapruder was trolling you in all those "I'm faphappy for God" threads. He called me numerous times to laugh about it.

Virus
24th April 09, 11:36 AM
No. I wuz trolling him.

Spade: The Real Snake
24th April 09, 12:09 PM
And God is trolling you.

HappyOldGuy
24th April 09, 12:12 PM
Burying all those dinosaur fossils with the flood was the greatest prank in the history of trolldom.

Spade: The Real Snake
24th April 09, 12:15 PM
Bruce Downey told me Noah has a small dome of baby dinosaurs in the Ark.

KhorneliusPraxx
24th April 09, 12:50 PM
I love Bill Nye.

I weep for the children of any dipshits that are too stupid to understand the concept of a dead rock orbiting a planet.

KhorneliusPraxx
24th April 09, 12:54 PM
I don't think "the sun going around the earth" is in the bible.
he wasn't talking biblical...he was talking catholic...

TheLordHumungus
24th April 09, 01:16 PM
For many of the things he has done he deserves recognition.

He has a specific law practice. He only handles police brutality and misconduct cases. he only works on a contigency basis. he looses you no pay. he wins, the state pays his fees and you give him 1/3rd. He also pays for your criminal defense before launching the civil suit.

I may need his card. Does he practice in PA and DC or just Ohio?

MaverickZ
24th April 09, 01:35 PM
I live to argue.
Unfortunately, you're terrible at it. Find a new hobby. You give atheists a bad name.

Cullion
24th April 09, 01:40 PM
do you still get to use 'christmas' over there?

Yup. The UK still has an official state religion, The Church of England (you know members of it as Episcopalians in North America). The Queen goes on TV on Christmas day to deliver a 'Royal Christmas Message'.

Some left-wing city governments have tried to go for 'winter festival'-type secular names for things, but they just get laughed at. Occasionally people express mild annoyance if they end up spending public money renaming something. It usually ends with people from other religions publicly saying 'I wish you'd stop annoying mainstream Christians for our benefit, we didn't ask you to do this. We'll do our thing and you do yours'.

Rather than make everything strictly non-religious, in cities with big Hindu or Muslim celebrations you often get Christmas decorations up around Christmas, and then decorations up for Diwali and Eid on the appropriate days. I think the 'everybody do their own thing' option is more cheerful than the 'lets try and impose cheerless secular conformism'.

Kiko
24th April 09, 01:44 PM
he wasn't talking biblical...he was talking catholic...

Most of us have gotten with the program a bit after Copernicus.

WarPhalange
24th April 09, 02:26 PM
I don't understand these shits. This is something we've SHOWN to be real. We had PEOPLE on the moon and have mirrors there to this day. What the fuck do they think happens during a new moon? God turns it off to conserve energy? Idiots of the highest caliber. Not knowing that the moon reflects light is forgivable. Not wanting to know it should be a felony.

Robot Jesus
24th April 09, 02:26 PM
I have a hard time understanding atheist with chips on their shoulders, but maybe that's because I dislike proselytizers, whether they are pro-religion or anti-religion.

You seem like you have something to prove by constantly voicing your anti-religion opinions. Did a pedo priest touch you in the bad place or something?


sometimes it feels like we are at war but only one side is allowed to fight.

they put Christ back in Christmas, we fall back
they convert entire moderate communities, we fall back
they funnel tax money away to "faith biased" programs and kick science out of the class room, we fall back

sometime you just want to scream not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!


In my high school there was a strong Mormon and strong fundey click. It was just like every high school movie ever made; arrogant self absorbed teenagers doing there best to torment the "other", but in this cases they had to prove themselves right. I developed quite a chip on my shoulder dealing with them because I refused to back away from a philosophical argument, even if I was beating my head against the wall. when ever I mentioned religion or talked with friends in a public space there would always be someone there; not to engage but to ridicule. perhaps I did not have the most mature response to this, but hey I too was a stupid teenager.

HappyOldGuy
24th April 09, 02:54 PM
Yeah, cause there are more public religious displays at christmas today than in the past. :rolleyes:

Fearless Ukemi
24th April 09, 02:55 PM
I thought you guys were smarter than this. The hicks weren't booing the scientific facts, they were booing the delivery.

Robot Jesus
24th April 09, 02:57 PM
Yeah, cause there are more public religious displays at christmas today than in the past. :rolleyes:


granted, but now it's a sticking point.

Virus
24th April 09, 03:04 PM
20 percent of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?_r=1&ex=1184990400&en=2fb126c3132f89ae&ei=5070

Fearless Ukemi
24th April 09, 03:07 PM
I have trouble believing that and the article did not convive me.

Now, if you had said 20 percent of Americans can not read at an 8th grade level, you'd have had me.

Phrost
24th April 09, 03:08 PM
No doubt, Nye was trolling for a reaction exactly like this.

Doesn't make it any less stupid.

Spade: The Real Snake
24th April 09, 03:15 PM
20 percent of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?_r=1&ex=1184990400&en=2fb126c3132f89ae&ei=5070

LOL
How do Australia Day?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20826656-2702,00.html

HappyOldGuy
24th April 09, 03:15 PM
granted, but now it's a sticking point.

So what you mean is that after booting their asses like baby seals at a clubmakers convention for the last 40 years, it's really unfair of them to actually fight back?

Kiko
24th April 09, 03:23 PM
Well, we are supposed to turn the other cheek and all that, right?

WarPhalange
24th April 09, 03:57 PM
Ha ha, Britain ain't shit.

Cullion
24th April 09, 04:57 PM
they put Christ back in Christmas, we fall back

<double take>

What ?

Spade: The Real Snake
24th April 09, 05:08 PM
Happy Holidays.

Same thing.

Neildo
24th April 09, 06:00 PM
Rather than make everything strictly non-religious, in cities with big Hindu or Muslim celebrations you often get Christmas decorations up around Christmas, and then decorations up for Diwali and Eid on the appropriate days. I think the 'everybody do their own thing' option is more cheerful than the 'lets try and impose cheerless secular conformism'.

we do that too but apparently canada has white mans burden. the only people ever tried in canada's 'hate crime trubunal' (yes we have such a thing) have been white. you and i both know how utterly ridiculous that is.

Antifa
24th April 09, 06:51 PM
we do that too but apparently canada has white mans burden. the only people ever tried in canada's 'hate crime trubunal' (yes we have such a thing) have been white. you and i both know how utterly ridiculous that is.

Well... Ernst Zundel and Paul Fromm were and are nazis

just saying.....

socratic
24th April 09, 07:27 PM
I don't think "the sun going around the earth" is in the bible.

It sorta kinda definitely is. That's how Galileo got in a lot of trouble. God stops the sun in the sky, not the earth around the sun, in the old Testament.


Most of us have gotten with the program a bit after Copernicus.

Actually, you guys gave up heliocentricism after Galileo died, if memory serves. Which was about at least a hundred years after Copernicus died. Catholics have only been modern post the reformation, before then you guys were stonewalling progress for a thousand years. But hey, you guys caught up in the end and apparently the Vatican does run a scientific program, when it isn't smuggling Nazis or finding cushy jobs for paedophiles.


LOL
How do Australia Day?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20826656-2702,00.html

I call bullshit on that. I have never met in my entire life someone who doesn't know who Captain Cook is, nor why Australia Day is celebrated. And I've met a fair few people in my life.

Cullion
24th April 09, 07:38 PM
You talk a lot of half-baked shit about Catholicism socratic.

HappyOldGuy
24th April 09, 07:45 PM
I call bullshit on that. I have never met in my entire life someone who doesn't know who Captain Cook is, nor why Australia Day is celebrated. And I've met a fair few people in my life.

I forget. Did he invent shrimp or the barbie?

Cullion
24th April 09, 07:49 PM
Well... Ernst Zundel and Paul Fromm were and are nazis

just saying.....

I don't think opinions ought to be the subject of criminal law, only actions.

Kiko
24th April 09, 07:54 PM
Actually, I recall writing a paper about Copernicus when I was in grammar school and that he was the one who figured it out. I've known about the earth revolving around the sun since I was a child. That wasn't HUNDREDS of years ago - I'm not THAT old.

Fearless Ukemi
24th April 09, 09:54 PM
It sorta kinda definitely is. That's how Galileo got in a lot of trouble. God stops the sun in the sky, not the earth around the sun, in the old Testament.


If you are going to make this claim, at least know what you're talking about. The church rejected the Copernican model because Joshua prayed to God in the old testament to stop the sun in the sky. That was simply a man's prayer, and not a biblical statement of anything. The church, like most institutions, is just retarded.

nihilist
24th April 09, 11:58 PM
God creating light before the planets is a neat trick.

Explain that one for me.

Neildo
25th April 09, 12:53 AM
i think you guys missed my point. all races hate other races. especially asians. it's been that way all throughout history.


God creating light before the planets is a neat trick.

Explain that one for me.

who says he made our solar system first. the galaxy is a big place.

nihilist
25th April 09, 12:54 AM
I love all races, especially the negroes and the chinamen so you're wrong.

Ajamil
25th April 09, 12:55 AM
I thought you guys were smarter than this. The hicks weren't booing the scientific facts, they were booing the delivery.

Sunday Sunday SUNDAY!!

Bill Nye's comin to town with a show that will rock your WORRRLLLLDDD.

LIIVE atthemetrodome, Nye's taking on celestials and putting theiirrr light's ouuttt...

Thaat's right, Bill Nye is roaring to the Moon, calling it dusty, calling it lifeless, saying it's lost it's shine and never even had one.

Bring friends, bring family [^_^ ] Kids under 6 get in half off![/^_^]

You'll buy the whole seat, but you'll only need the eddggeeee.

*Fade to Bill Nye theme*

nihilist
25th April 09, 01:04 AM
who says he made our solar system first. the galaxy is a big place.
The Bible states that God created the Heavens and the Earth on the first day.
Then he created light
Then, On the 4th day: 1:14-15 “And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.”
AFTER that He creates the Sun.


If the Bible is the word of God then God needs a lesson in where light emanates from. In this case it is of course the Sun.

Neildo
25th April 09, 01:10 AM
he said light first. he didn't make shit start spinnin til later


ITS SPINNIN NIGGA ITS SPINNIN



wait, maybe the other lights he's talking about are stars...

Virus
25th April 09, 01:11 AM
Yeah and that talking snake shit.

Neildo
25th April 09, 01:15 AM
i like the part where there wouldn't even be a devil if god didn't make him. what an asshole.

nihilist
25th April 09, 01:23 AM
Anybody can set a bush on fire.

Neildo
25th April 09, 01:26 AM
shit when my cousin lived in saskatoon i'd go visit him during summer vacation. we'd sit upstairs eating ice cream and watching the grass at the tennis courts across the street spontaneously combust. it sometimes got as hot as 50 degrees celcius in the summer there. and no wind. dry too, no humidity.

Robot Jesus
25th April 09, 02:41 AM
that sounds like my summers, except with less icecream and more lighter fluid.

Virus
25th April 09, 04:01 AM
Unfortunately, you're terrible at it. Find a new hobby. You give atheists a bad name.

Specifics please.

EuropIan
25th April 09, 04:06 AM
Specifics please.
you cost too much mana
https://www.abugames.com/images/products/fallenempires/farrelszealota.jpg

Cullion
25th April 09, 04:46 AM
Specifics please.

Your argumentative debating style on this subject doesn't seem to gel quite right for this forum on a couple of points:-

i) There's a lot of repetition. This isn't like Bullshido where a constant stream of noobs who are ignorant of the basics pass through, most people posting on here are long term members who've seen the subject covered before. By all means carrying on espousing your view, but try to take the debate forward a bit somehow.

ii) You have a really zealous and unbalanced view of the cultural impact of religion, focusing almost entirely on negatives which we all already know about and acknowledge to exist. Are you really not capable of appreciating the stained glass windows in a great Gothic cathedral? The musical inspiration it's produced ?

Are you really reductionist enough to write off a man like Albert Schweitzer and the effect of Christianity on his life with 'eh, seemed like an ok guy, shame he was deluded though'.

iii) Sometimes, and you're not the only person guilty of this, you actually make completely counter-factual assertions based on secular humanist dogma. The contraception/HIV debate being an example. You don't seem to be able to see or accept that what you're doing in these cases is refusing to accept statistical evidence because it doesn't fit with your beliefs. Which is of course lulz-worthy the first time, but kind of tiresome to have to point out repeatedly.

Most of the people posting here are already atheists or agnostics, when even they find your militant atheism kind of annoying, that ought to be a hint, you know ?

socratic
25th April 09, 05:03 AM
If you are going to make this claim, at least know what you're talking about. The church rejected the Copernican model because Joshua prayed to God in the old testament to stop the sun in the sky. That was simply a man's prayer, and not a biblical statement of anything. The church, like most institutions, is just retarded.
God did it, didn't he? It's right there in Joshua 10. God stopped the sun in the sky. He paused the sun's movement in earth's sky. He held the sun in place. The view thus was that the sun moved around earth, opposing Corpernicanism. They didn't come write out and say in the chapter, but they didn't have to, the sun belief was evident in the text.

The funny thing about Copernicanism is the Church didn't entirely reject it, they just reduced it's importance to "A cute little mathematical toy that isn't a reflection of God's reality" and Galileo got in trouble for not towing the line.


I forget. Did he invent shrimp or the barbie?
Actually, he invented killing Aborigines. If I was more patriotic of my ancestry I'd be somewhat offended right now.


Actually, I recall writing a paper about Copernicus when I was in grammar school and that he was the one who figured it out. I've known about the earth revolving around the sun since I was a child. That wasn't HUNDREDS of years ago - I'm not THAT old.
I meant the pluralised 'you' indicating the Catholic world. Don't be silly, I know you're (mostly) harmless, I'm just mocking your predecessors. :D


You talk a lot of half-baked shit about Catholicism socratic.
I used the wrong term, I shouldn't have said 'heliocentricism', I should have said 'earth-centricism' or something. My bad everyone.


iii) Sometimes, and you're not the only person guilty of this, you actually make completely counter-factual assertions based on secular humanist dogma. The contraception/HIV debate being an example. You don't seem to be able to see or accept that what you're doing in these cases is refusing to accept statistical evidence because it doesn't fit with your beliefs. Which is of course lulz-worthy the first time, but kind of tiresome to have to point out repeatedly
Because preaching abstinence actually leads to total abstinence, right? Besides, what're you doing defening retarded Catholicism? You're the worst Anglican ever. I'm calling the Queen!!!!

Cullion
25th April 09, 05:09 AM
Because preaching abstinence actually leads to total abstinence, right?

Umm.. just as much as handing out condoms and insisting that people use them leads to them using them.
The statistics from Africa show lower HIV infection rates for countries with more substantial Catholic populations as opposed to the countries with smaller percentages of Catholics and more widespread sex education and free condom programmes.

This does not prove Jesus is real, it's simply something that an atheist is dishonest to ignore when talking about the superiority of secular social policies over those of the Catholic church.



Besides, what're you doing defening retarded Catholicism? You're the worst Anglican ever. I'm calling the Queen!!!!

I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic.

EuropIan
25th April 09, 05:11 AM
I still stand by my "shaman blessed condoms" for Africa idea.

Because it is greedy, condecending and culturally ignorant.

socratic
25th April 09, 05:17 AM
Umm.. just as much as handing out condoms and insisting that people use them leads to them using them.
The statistics from Africa show lower HIV infection rates for countries with more substantial Catholic populations as opposed to the countries with smaller percentages of Catholics and more widespread sex education and free condom programmes.

This does not prove Jesus is real, it's simply something that an atheist is dishonest to ignore when talking about the superiority of secular social policies over those of the Catholic church.

Didn't HOG or someone challenge you on this last time you mentioned it? Let's ignore for now that I think it's wrong to blackmail people with the scary man in the sky into not healthily expressing their sex drive, 'cause I'm curious. You got stats for that?


I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic.

Maybe you should go live in Italy then, huh, traitor!? In this Commonwealth we're Anglican and we LOVE IT.

Cullion
25th April 09, 05:25 AM
Didn't HOG or someone challenge you on this last time you mentioned it?

This will have been the third time it's come up. Yes, I rebutted all challenges with more stats and then people basically stopped arguing the facts and went into how they felt it was immoral to scare people with supernatural stories. Well, whatever. There original point that what the pope was espousing would lead to more HIV deaths was firmly rebutted as counter-factual secular humanist dogma though.


You got stats for that?

I'm going to make you search for the original thread.



Maybe you should go live in Italy then, huh, traitor!? In this Commonwealth we're Anglican and we LOVE IT.

Catholics have more awesome cathedrals than Anglicans.

Kiko
25th April 09, 05:53 AM
God did it, didn't he? It's right there in Joshua 10. God stopped the sun in the sky. He paused the sun's movement in earth's sky. He held the sun in place. The view thus was that the sun moved around earth, opposing Corpernicanism. They didn't come write out and say in the chapter, but they didn't have to, the sun belief was evident in the text.
.......

I meant the pluralised 'you' indicating the Catholic world. Don't be silly, I know you're (mostly) harmless, I'm just mocking your predecessors. :D

Because preaching abstinence actually leads to total abstinence, right? Besides, what're you doing defening retarded Catholicism? You're the worst Anglican ever. I'm calling the Queen!!!!

IF Joshua's prayer was answered literally, those who witnessed it would not have noticed the earth's stillness but that the SUN seemed to stop moving. This was way before either Copernicus or Galileo, so aside from really enlightened astronomer/philosopher types, most of the world thought the sun was the moving body.

I'm more likely to interpret passages like that as symbolic and not literal.

I was being silly to make a point. Mock whoever you like, that's mostly what this place is about. Mostly harmless? Probably, but why do you (pluralized for all the athiest/agnostics ;> ) spend so much time and energy trying to change the few of us here who have faith? I don't think I've preached ever as much as any of you.

Isn't the Anglican Church nearly identical to the Episcopal here in the States, Cullion? That means nearly similar to Catholic besides the whole Pope thing. More similar than either would be to any Protestant denomination anyhow.

Kiko
25th April 09, 06:01 AM
Catholics have more awesome cathedrals than Anglicans.

Last time I was in NYC we stopped into a church not too far from St. Patrick's Cathedral. Only after I read a few signs did I realize it was Anglican, St. Thomas' Church. I thought it was lovely and peaceful.

Robot Jesus
25th April 09, 06:16 AM
Umm.. just as much as handing out condoms and insisting that people use them leads to them using them.
The statistics from Africa show lower HIV infection rates for countries with more substantial Catholic populations as opposed to the countries with smaller percentages of Catholics and more widespread sex education and free condom programmes.








I can't find the link anymore, but some company was trying to line condoms with erectile dysfunctions drugs to encourage use in the third world.

mrm1775
25th April 09, 06:19 AM
Socratic, your history-fu is weak, but that's not much of a surprise. Let me help you out.

Galileo did have enemies among the hard liners in the Church which contributed to his eventual conviction, but he also had many supporters among the higher officials, including the Pope (though Galileo did manage to piss him off in the end), who encouraged and were very interested in his work. He only really got into trouble when he started presenting the heliocentric model as fact instead of hypothesis. You see, the Copernican system worked mathematically, but so did the Ptolemaic (geocentric) system. At the time, science had not progressed to the point where either one could be conclusively proven as it was not known why the planets move as they do. In modern terms, we would say he was ignoring the scientific method. Charging him with heresy was a little overboard, though. That was the influence of the Inquisition. Turned out to be a dick move in the end, but it is not really a reflection of the Church striving to be an enemy to scientific progress.

Speaking of which, the Church was actually the primary force in promoting science and preserving knowledge in Europe throughout the Middle Ages. You know that classic image of monks dutifully copying manuscripts by candle light in their monasteries? Turns out that was actually important. In addition to preserving knowledge that would have been lost in the chaos of the Dark Ages, the Church also actively promoted science and learning throughout that period (pre-reformation) to include the establishment of the university and hospital systems.

Most of the valid criticisms of the Church (which are still often presented inaccurately) comes from its past attempts to wield political power. Not a good racket for any religion to get involved with, in my opinion.

The Church's record definitely isn't perfect, but at least open a book and inform your criticism with some actual knowledge instead of continuously vomiting the same tired, inaccurate statements into your posts that we have seen time and time again.

Sun Wukong
25th April 09, 06:33 AM
San Antonio > Austin


What? San Antonio is way way worse than Austin.

See, the problem with Austin isn't so much Austin it's the suburban towns around it like Georgetown, Pflugarville and Round Rock.

The sad disgusting tales of religious idiocy I experienced around there as a kid would shock and amaze you, and by shock and amaze, I mean disgust and send you into fatal iteration of comprehension of just how stupid the average everyday person really is.

Kiko
25th April 09, 07:04 AM
I can't find the link anymore, but some company was trying to line condoms with erectile dysfunctions drugs to encourage use in the third world.

It's been a while, but don't you need an erection to put on the condom properly? So how would this work, aside from simple marketing to the truly ignorant.

Also, are they blue?

Kiko
25th April 09, 07:04 AM
Don't you need an erection to put on the condom properly? So how would this work, aside from simple marketing to the truly ignorant.

Also, are they blue?

socratic
25th April 09, 07:11 AM
IF Joshua's prayer was answered literally, those who witnessed it would not have noticed the earth's stillness but that the SUN seemed to stop moving. This was way before either Copernicus or Galileo, so aside from really enlightened astronomer/philosopher types, most of the world thought the sun was the moving body.
Well, since the Old Testament wasn't written with an appendix saying "This is how it's supposed to be interpreted" you might as well read it like it was written, and it literally says the sun was stopped in the sky.


I'm more likely to interpret passages like that as symbolic and not literal.
What's it symbolic of?


I was being silly to make a point. Mock whoever you like, that's mostly what this place is about. Mostly harmless? Probably, but why do you (pluralized for all the athiest/agnostics ;> ) spend so much time and energy trying to change the few of us here who have faith? I don't think I've preached ever as much as any of you.
Because Catholic politics is vile, and so is its history. They've got great churches, though, I'll admit. I should be open and say that I really have no problems with the practitioners, it's the clergy itself that are the problems. The practitioners are just the rubes in the equation.

As for being preachy and atheist-y, because I'm in a bad mood, I guess.


Isn't the Anglican Church nearly identical to the Episcopal here in the States, Cullion? That means nearly similar to Catholic besides the whole Pope thing. More similar than either would be to any Protestant denomination anyhow.
The others have said Episcopalians are Anglicans in the US, but I don't know for sure. There's a fair few differences between Catholics and Anglicans; for one thing Anglican priests can marry.


Socratic, your history-fu is weak, but that's not much of a surprise. Let me help you out.
Catty. Me-ow. My history-fu's been pretty good aside from here.


Galileo did have enemies among the hard liners in the Church which contributed to his eventual conviction, but he also had many supporters among the higher officials, including the Pope (though Galileo did manage to piss him off in the end), who encouraged and were very interested in his work. He only really got into trouble when he started presenting the heliocentric model as fact instead of hypothesis. You see, the Copernican system worked mathematically, but so did the Ptolemaic (geocentric) system. At the time, science had not progressed to the point where either one could be conclusively proven as it was not known why the planets move as they do. In modern terms, we would say he was ignoring the scientific method. Charging him with heresy was a little overboard, though. That was the influence of the Inquisition. Turned out to be a dick move in the end, but it is not really a reflection of the Church striving to be an enemy to scientific progress.
I just said the bold in my previous post. He refused to tow the line as in construe Copernicanism as a mathematical model not reflecting reality; he even made satirical works taking the piss out of anti-Copernicans. He was definitely a polarizing figure. If memory serves the local Bishop tried to get him to come into the fold but Galileo was too stubborn.


Speaking of which, the Church was actually the primary force in promoting science and preserving knowledge in Europe throughout the Middle Ages. You know that classic image of monks dutifully copying manuscripts by candle light in their monasteries? Turns out that was actually important. In addition to preserving knowledge that would have been lost in the chaos of the Dark Ages, the Church also actively promoted science and learning throughout that period (pre-reformation) to include the establishment of the university and hospital systems.
Aristotelian science which was wrong and not entirely empirically proven. They then opposed new science that disagreed because it discredited their power base. Even if they did make a significant effort to promote science, it was done a lot better by the Islamic sphere where they weren't so bound by dogma.

The problem with claiming Galileo went against the scientific method is that he had repeatable empirical proof that Copernicanism was right and the weird theories the Church held about orbits [which they knew were crap, since they could hardly find any explanation that fit the evidence] was wrong, thanks to his telescope.

Edit: Oh, and the Church was behind that whole feudal heirarchy thing too. Mm, divine rulership!


Most of the valid criticisms of the Church (which are still often presented inaccurately) comes from its past attempts to wield political power. Not a good racket for any religion to get involved with, in my opinion.
You're right. The Vatican was not something to be fucked with for quite a long time.


The Church's record definitely isn't perfect, but at least open a book and inform your criticism with some actual knowledge instead of continuously vomiting the same tired, inaccurate statements into your posts that we have seen time and time again.
I have, buddy. But maybe those damn philosophers were lieing, you can never trust those guys.

As for the Church's track record, how about the Inquisition? You mentioned them yourself. How about hiding the Nazis and even to this very second protecting known paedophiles? Frankly, any organisation that has a Hitlerjungen as its leader, holocaust deniers in its ranks, and paedifiles in the wings, doesn't deserve much respect.

Fearless Ukemi
25th April 09, 07:20 AM
But don't you see how Joshua and the common people thinking the sun was stopped in the sky is different from something such as You shall not steal?

The bible has one coming directly from the mouth of God whereas your example is just some men's account of a battle.

socratic
25th April 09, 07:21 AM
It's been a while, but don't you need an erection to put on the condom properly? So how would this work, aside from simple marketing to the truly ignorant.

Also, are they blue?

Red is clearly the best penis-covering colour. "Red pocket rocket" sounds way better than the alternatives.

socratic
25th April 09, 07:23 AM
But don't you see how Joshua and the common people thinking the sun was stopped in the sky is different from something such as You shall not steal?

The bible has one coming directly from the mouth of God whereas your example is just some men's account of a battle.

It doesn't make it any less canon. You're right, though, it isn't any where near as important as a passage, but it was certainly enough of a sticking point for the church at the time.

Kiko
25th April 09, 07:25 AM
Without re-reading it (yes, I did read it this morning) I'd say symbolic of God's power over His creations, His support of Joshua's prayer and I believe there was another fellow - Hezekiah ( for whom time seemed to reverse, his health was restored) - whose prayers were answered even though it meant altering the motion of the heavens.

So one thing I'm getting here, even though the OT is shared by Christians and Jews (and perhaps Muslims, but we'll let them be for now), is why don't the Jews get more flack about their faith? I don't think they deserve any. Perhaps because they're more private about their faith and don't preach/try to convert others. I promise not to do that, as I have repeatedly here. Honest!

It's clear that the Church (and MOST powerful human institutions, whether political, religious, educational and even scientific) has made mistakes and because it's made of human beings, has the same flaws that most people do. Power is an equal opportunity corrupter.

Shawarma
25th April 09, 07:27 AM
Because you're not allowed to shit on the Jewish religion since 1945. Shit on the state of Israel instead if you're left wing or how the ZOG is secretly planning to rape your daughter if you're right wing.

socratic
25th April 09, 07:30 AM
Without re-reading it (yes, I did read it this morning) I'd say symbolic of God's power over His creations, His support of Joshua's prayer and I believe there was another fellow - Hezekiah ( for whom time seemed to reverse, his health was restored) - whose prayers were answered even though it meant altering the motion of the heavens.

Cool. After reading it as much as I did [went to an Anglican school... God I hate chapel] I don't think I could stand to read much of that crap again.


So one thing I'm getting here, even though the OT is shared by Christians and Jews (and perhaps Muslims, but we'll let them be for now), is why don't the Jews get more flack about their faith? I don't think they deserve any. Perhaps because they're more private about their faith and don't preach/try to convert others.

Judaism is the underdog religion and some sects don't accept converts, whereas the other two Abrahamic faiths tend to prosletyze and convert aggressively. Irony being I'm all atheist speilboy.


I promise not to do that, as I have repeatedly here. Honest!

You've been put on Theist Watch. Dawkins will be along to see you shortly.


It's clear that the Church (and MOST powerful human institutions, whether political, religious, educational and even scientific) has made mistakes and because it's made of human beings, has the same flaws that most people do. Power is an equal opportunity corrupter.

Of course.

socratic
25th April 09, 07:40 AM
And just for the record, I think kosher, circumcision and the strange thing they have going with inheriting the religion is all bollocks. If I knew more about the Talmud I'd comment further.

Cullion
25th April 09, 08:37 AM
The Talmud has things in it that you'd find just as objectionable as things you can find in the Qu'ran or the King James Bible. They're not any worse, it's just you're less likely to have come across them because Jews don't tend to have mass protests where they scrawl them on placards.

Virus
25th April 09, 08:39 AM
It's clear that the Church (and MOST powerful human institutions, whether political, religious, educational and even scientific) has made mistakes and because it's made of human beings, has the same flaws that most people do. Power is an equal opportunity corrupter.

Enabled by human gullibility.

Kiko
25th April 09, 09:27 AM
Enabled by human gullibility.

So is Madison Avenue.

Fearless Ukemi
25th April 09, 09:30 AM
You are only seeing a fraction of the picture because you choose to blind yourself. There are still people actually joining churches and becoming involved in their religions to join missions and relief efforts to actually help people.

And that isn't just Christian churches, that goes for a lot of other religious organizations as well.

Virus
25th April 09, 09:55 AM
You are only seeing a fraction of the picture because you choose to blind yourself. There are still people actually joining Hamas and becoming involved in their religions to join missions and relief efforts to actually help people.

And that isn't just Hamas, that goes for a lot of other organizations as well like the Muslim Brotherhood.

HappyOldGuy
25th April 09, 10:42 AM
-aGTNS13SDU

Ajamil
25th April 09, 10:53 AM
God did it, didn't he? It's right there in Joshua 10. God stopped the sun in the sky. He paused the sun's movement in earth's sky. He held the sun in place. The view thus was that the sun moved around earth, opposing Corpernicanism. They didn't come write out and say in the chapter, but they didn't have to, the sun belief was evident in the text.

What the people thought or not, why isn't this seen as cultural. Don't you say sunRISE, sunSET? Ever read a passage "The sun sank into the horizon" and immediately think Bullshit? I'm not saying they didn't literally believe this, but it's just as easy to see it as a turn of phrase.

You could also argue that since it is God's Word, it should say the exact effect, but it was written to be understood several thousand years ago, so why not dictate a letter they could read?

Which, then, brings up inalterability.

Fearless Ukemi
25th April 09, 10:55 AM
You are only seeing a fraction of the picture because you choose to blind yourself. There are still people actually joining Hamas and becoming involved in their religions to join missions and relief efforts to actually help people.

And that isn't just Hamas, that goes for a lot of other organizations as well like the Muslim Brotherhood.

You're kidding, right?

Virus
25th April 09, 11:11 AM
Hamas run hospitals, charities and food networks. Is their existence justified?

Cullion
25th April 09, 11:21 AM
If you substitute 'Hamas' for 'African National Congress' and 'Islam' for 'Social Equality' you faggots would be all about it, despite the fact that the methods are pretty much the same, simply because mainstream media networks would tell you that it's OK.

Virus
25th April 09, 11:33 AM
If you substitute 'Hamas' for 'African National Congress' and 'Islam' for 'Social Equality' you faggots would be all about it, despite the fact that the methods are pretty much the same, simply because mainstream media networks would tell you that it's OK.

So groups devoted to social equality make a point of blowing up schools do they? Give me a list of the people you think I support that do that.

.

Cullion
25th April 09, 11:38 AM
So groups devoted to social equality make a point of blowing up schools do they? Give me a list of the people you think I support that do that.

.

I've never once seen you write a rant about communists or secular marxist-sponsored African Empowerment terrorist groups like the ANC. Yes, they've attacked schools. I've never seen you rant about western militaries blowing up schools either, for that matter. They've done that too.

You're just some slow-witted mature student who's recently discovered this whole 'tradition of western reason' thing and runs with it at a high-level of public indignation with every anti-Islamic or anti-Christian mass media article put before him. Stick to preaching to fellow Ninjitsu practitioners how awesome BJJ is.

Cullion
25th April 09, 11:47 AM
You haven't even stopped to think why certain groups have been presented to you as movements you ought to be indignant about.

Virus
25th April 09, 11:49 AM
So religious violence is absolved because "other people do it too."

What makes you think I support the ANC and Marxist-Leninist?

Virus
25th April 09, 11:51 AM
You haven't even stopped to think why certain groups have been presented to you as movements you ought to be indignant about.

I haven't. I'm just a slow-witted mature student.

HappyOldGuy
25th April 09, 11:53 AM
CFNY0fLwS4o

Cullion
25th April 09, 11:53 AM
No, religious violence isn't absolved. You, however, have a repetitive, dull rant-a-thon running which seems to belie an ignorance of all the other causes of violence in the world.

Pro-tip: The greatest genocides of the 20th century were all performed by atheists but you have absolutely no indignation to express on these topics.

That suggests to me that your rants aren't actually anything to do with concern for your fellow man, and are all about your trying to win some kind of nebulous Internet kudos by demonstrating your secular rationalist chops.

This is sociocide. You are not rescuing Texan teenagers from pentecostal doomsday cults here. Switch it up a gear.

Virus
25th April 09, 12:05 PM
No, religious violence isn't absolved. You, however, have a repetitive, dull rant-a-thon running which seems to belie an ignorance of all the other causes of violence in the world.

Please find anything I've said which indicates I think all violence is caused by religion.



Pro-tip: The greatest genocides of the 20th century were all performed by atheists but you have absolutely no indignation to express on these topics.

You mean authoritarian communists that happen to be atheists. Was too much skepticism of divine claims the problem with Russia? Their violence was directly a result of their beliefs which has been my point all along. Beliefs matter.



This is sociocide.

Yeah. A discussion forum, and the topic is religion.

Cullion
25th April 09, 12:37 PM
Please find anything I've said which indicates I think all violence is caused by religion.

I don't think you've ever said that. I just think you reptitively and inanely post about how some violence is caused by religion, like you think you're saving the world from irrational thought. It's absurd.



You mean authoritarian communists that happen to be atheists. Was too much skepticism of divine claims the problem with Russia? Their violence was directly a result of their beliefs which has been my point all along. Beliefs matter.

They certainly do. What are yours?



Yeah. A discussion forum, and the topic is religion.

Yes, but as has been pointed out, you're so fucking bad at this, that you annoy people who agree with your basic position.

Virus
25th April 09, 01:27 PM
I don't think you've ever said that. I just think you reptitively and inanely post about how some violence is caused by religion, like you think you're saving the world from irrational thought. It's absurd.

I talk about it because it's pertinent to the topic and sometimes people disagree with me on the extent religion plays in certain conflicts. Therefore discussion. I like to argue. I'm don't think I'm saving the world, but if a lurker happens to read a post I made and begins to doubt divine claims then I won't complain.




They certainly do. What are yours?


That's a good question. What are my beliefs. I have opinions on a lot of things. What specifically do you want to know my position on?



Yes, but as has been pointed out, you're so fucking bad at this, that you annoy people who agree with your basic position.

The charge "I'm bad at arguing" implies that I make invalid assertions or state things that aren't true. If I've done that then I want people to say so and explain why. Are you saying that my basic position is correct but expressed too frequently? I participate in threads concerning religion in which it would be impossible to not say what I thought on the matter.

Fearless Ukemi
25th April 09, 01:34 PM
So religious violence is absolved because "other people do it too."

What makes you think I support the ANC and Marxist-Leninist?

Discussing religion with you is like discussing the police with Kracker. This conflict that you are trying to pass off as being derived from religion is more accurately derived from tribalism. You are being mislead.

I have seen first hand how religion has benefitted people, even those who are not religious. For example, my own father never would have been educated or even received a decent meal every day if it were not for the Catholic church.

nihilist
25th April 09, 01:35 PM
I think a better tack would be to point out that organically atheistic countries are some of the most prosperous, educated and peaceful countries in the world and let Lord Cullion draw his own conclusions.

EuropIan
25th April 09, 03:19 PM
our country is officially Lutheran, Reese.

Cullion
25th April 09, 03:26 PM
I think a better tack would be to point out that organically atheistic countries are some of the most prosperous, educated and peaceful countries in the world and let Lord Cullion draw his own conclusions.

Like, um, where ?

Cullion
25th April 09, 03:29 PM
The charge "I'm bad at arguing" implies that I make invalid assertions or state things that aren't true. If I've done that then I want people to say so and explain why. Are you saying that my basic position is correct but expressed too frequently? I participate in threads concerning religion in which it would be impossible to not say what I thought on the matter.

You do assert things which aren't valid or true, and when people correct your misunderstanding, it never seems to sink in.

EuropIan
25th April 09, 03:31 PM
Like, um, where ?
He wanted to say sweden norway and denmark were atheist but they really aren't

WarPhalange
25th April 09, 03:44 PM
I thought you guys were smarter than this. The hicks weren't booing the scientific facts, they were booing the delivery.

He first brought up Genesis, pointed out a flaw, and they boo'ed him. How could he have said it so that they did not boo him?

I mean, it was kind of the point to show them that the moon doesn't make its own light. If he had just stated it plainly, people would have gone "uhh... okay", since many of them are too stupid to connect the dots.

So how do you tell them they are wrong without getting boo'ed?

Cullion
25th April 09, 03:46 PM
He wanted to say sweden norway and denmark were atheist but they really aren't

I thought for a moment he was going to bring up America, but of course he's not that crazy.

Perhaps he was talking about Maoist China, or the USSR ?

EuropIan
25th April 09, 04:08 PM
Cullion as we both know the secret isn't state-atheism but rather non-excitement about religion.

Cullion
25th April 09, 04:15 PM
He first brought up Genesis, pointed out a flaw, and they boo'ed him. How could he have said it so that they did not boo him?

I mean, it was kind of the point to show them that the moon doesn't make its own light. If he had just stated it plainly, people would have gone "uhh... okay", since many of them are too stupid to connect the dots.

So how do you tell them they are wrong without getting boo'ed?

Most of them already knew that the moon reflects the sun's light, they were booing because he turned up to make fun of their religion, and they therefore decided that he was an asshole.

He could have given this elementary school astronomy lecture without reference to their religion at all, but because he has the raging Dawkins-proselyte infection, he just couldn't leave it alone.

HappyOldGuy
25th April 09, 04:36 PM
Cullion as we both know the secret isn't state-atheism but rather non-excitement about religion.

Okay, I'm going to break my rule about posting in virus religion threads to say

^^^this

^^^this

^^^motherfucking this


and now back to your regularly scheduled broadcast

U-tjcQ-TxQs

LuVb9T1ZglQ

WarPhalange
25th April 09, 05:57 PM
Most of them already knew that the moon reflects the sun's light, they were booing because he turned up to make fun of their religion, and they therefore decided that he was an asshole.

He could have given this elementary school astronomy lecture without reference to their religion at all, but because he has the raging Dawkins-proselyte infection, he just couldn't leave it alone.

Sounds like my kind of guy.

Spade: The Real Snake
25th April 09, 06:26 PM
People don't call in fucking Bill Nye Science Guy to a school for anything other then Carnival Geek style science magic involving balloons, static electricity, baking soda and vinegar. They don't need his proselytizing any more then they need him showing up at a school and launching into a diatribe about air breathing fish who sprout hair and walk upright.

WarPhalange
25th April 09, 06:30 PM
People don't call in fucking Bill Nye Science Guy to a school for anything other then Carnival Geek style science magic involving balloons, static electricity, baking soda and vinegar.



Nye was taking part in McLennan Community College's Distinguished Lecture Series, giving talks on global warming, Mars exploration, and energy consumption, but it was the moon thing that got them.

Cullion
25th April 09, 06:39 PM
Global warming and Mars exploration are carnival geek science magic.

Robot Jesus
25th April 09, 06:43 PM
THESE AIR BREATHING FISH WILL DEVOUR US ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Virus
25th April 09, 07:43 PM
I have seen first hand how religion has benefitted people, even those who are not religious. For example, my own father never would have been educated or even received a decent meal every day if it were not for the Catholic church.

I don't claim that religious groups never benefit anyone. But the same argument can be given for Hamas.

Cullion
25th April 09, 07:49 PM
Do you really believe that, say, the Quakers or the Jains are comparable to Hamas?

HappyOldGuy
25th April 09, 08:03 PM
They're okay, but the buddhists can kiss my ass. Walking home after a 3 hour workout today, barely able to move, and I have to wait to cross the street because they have closed the entire main street across town till the fucking dali llama and his fucking 20 car motorcade get to his lecture.

Virus
25th April 09, 08:10 PM
Do you really believe that, say, the Quakers or the Jains are comparable to Hamas?

No. But we weren't just talking about the quakers and the Jains. The Catholic church might currently be more benign than radical Islam but it's teachings and pronouncements are still toxic.

Cullion
25th April 09, 08:19 PM
Toxic? not really. Just based on myth.

WarPhalange
25th April 09, 08:21 PM
Condoms cause AIDS so fuck raw to be safe = toxic teaching.

WarPhalange
25th April 09, 08:23 PM
Global warming and Mars exploration are carnival geek science magic.

No, explaining how electricity works with a Tesla coil or Van de Graaf generator is carnival geek magic. There are no real demos or otherwise "cool" things when talking about GW or Mars.

Cullion
25th April 09, 08:26 PM
Condoms cause AIDS so fuck raw to be safe = toxic teaching.

That's not actually what the Catholic church teaches, as you well know. Don't bring this silly counter-factual bit of dogma up again until you've got statistics on your side.

Cullion
25th April 09, 08:27 PM
No, explaining how electricity works with a Tesla coil or Van de Graaf generator is carnival geek magic. There are no real demos or otherwise "cool" things when talking about GW or Mars.

There's CGI movies of the solar system and dramatic (out of context) clips of ice falling off cliffs. There's no math though.

Virus
25th April 09, 08:33 PM
Toxic? not really. Just based on myth.

Last year the pope admonished Catholics for not believing in hell enough, and warned against the idea that hell is symbolic. There are people who feel it a duty to raise children to believe that god tortures the dead if they were not sufficiently devout. There are people that tell their children that their friends are going to hell because they are Buddhist or Protestant.

Cullion
25th April 09, 08:34 PM
Why does that bother you so much ?

Virus
25th April 09, 08:37 PM
Becuase it isn't true and it's abhorrent.

WarPhalange
25th April 09, 08:45 PM
That's not actually what the Catholic church teaches, as you well know. Don't bring this silly counter-factual bit of dogma up again until you've got statistics on your side.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/17/pope-condoms-not-the-answ_n_175623.html

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22220157.htm

So it wasn't what I said directly, but it might as well have been, since saying "No, just don't have sex!" to people who are 1) young and 2) have nothing better to do, is not going to make them listen. The null hypothesis here is that people are going to have sex. And as can be seen from redneck area schools that teach abstinence-only as their sex ed., there is no way of stopping kids from having sex. Not even the wrath of God himiself can do it!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8470845/
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6981558&page=1

So, it is logical to apply this to Africa. It's also logical to say "Telling them to stop won't work." because in the battle of long term benefit vs. instant gratification now (and no telling how many times), the pen0r is going to win over the brain.

The next best thing is to say "How can we make sex as safe as possible?" and it happens to be the best thing to do.

Cullion
25th April 09, 08:46 PM
Becuase it isn't true and it's abhorrent.

Of course it's not true, but in what sense is it abhorrent?

Cullion
25th April 09, 08:47 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/17/pope-condoms-not-the-answ_n_175623.html

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22220157.htm

So it wasn't what I said directly, but it might as well have been, since saying "No, just don't have sex!" to people who are 1) young and 2) have nothing better to do, is not going to make them listen. The null hypothesis here is that people are going to have sex. And as can be seen from redneck area schools that teach abstinence-only as their sex ed., there is no way of stopping kids from having sex. Not even the wrath of God himiself can do it!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8470845/
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6981558&page=1

So, it is logical to apply this to Africa. It's also logical to say "Telling them to stop won't work." because in the battle of long term benefit vs. instant gratification now (and no telling how many times), the pen0r is going to win over the brain.

The next best thing is to say "How can we make sex as safe as possible?" and it happens to be the best thing to do.


Poops, this has been done in much more detail, before. Please search the old threads.

WarPhalange
25th April 09, 08:54 PM
There's CGI movies of the solar system and dramatic (out of context) clips of ice falling off cliffs. There's no math though.

CGI or this:

KTK15te2Qts&feature=related
eLRFsy0fOTE
tUCtCYty-ns

Cullion
25th April 09, 08:57 PM
See? I told you he was a liar. I love myself.

Virus
25th April 09, 09:31 PM
Cullion; Raising children to be absolutely certain that an omnipresent celestial overlord tortures the dead is:

a) A good thing.
b) A bad thing.
c) Meh, whatever.

When you accept the territory that goes with such a belief, you open yourself up to manipulation and control by institutions that feed on such credulity.

This sort of oblivion to reality is what makes 40% of Americans certain that Jesus is going to come down to earth and initiate the End Times within the next 50 years.

Neildo
25th April 09, 09:48 PM
he doesn't initiate it, we do. he saves us from ourselves. of course we could do that too if everybody would stop being so fucking stupid all the time.

i for one cannot wait until the apocalypse.

Virus
25th April 09, 09:59 PM
That's the thing about religious prophecy. It's self-fulfilling.

jnp
25th April 09, 10:19 PM
People don't call in fucking Bill Nye Science Guy to a school for anything other then Carnival Geek style science magic involving balloons, static electricity, baking soda and vinegar. They don't need his proselytizing any more then they need him showing up at a school and launching into a diatribe about air breathing fish who sprout hair and walk upright.
Like my old man still says, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."


They're okay, but the buddhists can kiss my ass. Walking home after a 3 hour workout today, barely able to move, and I have to wait to cross the street because they have closed the entire main street across town till the fucking dali llama and his fucking 20 car motorcade get to his lecture.
We did that on purpose.

Cullion
26th April 09, 04:07 AM
Cullion; Raising children to be absolutely certain that an omnipresent celestial overlord tortures the dead is:

a) A good thing.
b) A bad thing.
c) Meh, whatever.

When you accept the territory that goes with such a belief, you open yourself up to manipulation and control by institutions that feed on such credulity.

It can certainly have it's advantages. Sometimes irrational fear is the only thing that makes a person behave when they aren't being watched. Do I teach my own children this? no.



This sort of oblivion to reality is what makes 40% of Americans certain that Jesus is going to come down to earth and initiate the End Times within the next 50 years.

Believing that doesn't necessarily do any harm.

Kiko
26th April 09, 06:04 AM
I'm getting such a kick out of where this thread has gone that I think I'm gonna go play WoW. My Shaman is nearly 80.

Did I mention, btw, that I saw someone who named his/her toon 'Wingchun" yesterday? There, yes, I did.

Virus
26th April 09, 06:13 AM
It can certainly have it's advantages. Sometimes irrational fear is the only thing that makes a person behave when they aren't being watched. Do I teach my own children this? no.



Believing that doesn't necessarily do any harm.

Except when they are the electorate and the people that serve in office and that office commands nuclear weaponry.

Fearless Ukemi
26th April 09, 07:28 AM
I'm getting such a kick out of where this thread has gone that I think I'm gonna go play WoW. My Shaman is nearly 80.

Did I mention, btw, that I saw someone who named his/her toon 'Wingchun" yesterday? There, yes, I did.

I saw a hunter in Orgrimar with a gorilla pet named Obama.

Ajamil
26th April 09, 08:11 AM
Since we have this viral religion thread going, I figure no need to start another.

Virus, consider the hypothetical situation: An omnipotent (or at least powerful to the point where there's no difference to us) being makes itself known to us - as the human race - as a whole. Do you think irrefutable evidence would turn you to practicing a religion of any sort? I highly doubt it. It isn't the myth that bothers you the most - you don't rant day after day on ghost-hunters - it's the totalitarian and hierarchal structures in religion.

Why not switch to hating the philosophical or sociological aspects of religon, and then eventually just phase out religion altogether and leave people their silly fantasies?

Cullion
26th April 09, 08:13 AM
Except when they are the electorate and the people that serve in office and that office commands nuclear weaponry.

What makes you think that people who believe these things are more likely to want a nuclear war ?

socratic
26th April 09, 09:21 AM
I've never once seen you write a rant about communists or secular marxist-sponsored African Empowerment terrorist groups like the ANC. Yes, they've attacked schools. I've never seen you rant about western militaries blowing up schools either, for that matter. They've done that too.

Fuck the Red Berets and the Weathermen.


Pro-tip: The greatest genocides of the 20th century were all performed by atheists but you have absolutely no indignation to express on these topics.

Pro-tip: You'd have to be retarded to claim that Hitler, Franco, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot's genocides were all entirely [or perhaps even significantly] religiously inspired rather than politically or ethnically inspired. If you aren't talking about cumulitive death totals over entire regimes then most of the big ones were probably by Muslims, but even then not all of those would be religiously inspired and more about ethnic cleansing. Was the several Kurdish genocides about religion [since they aren't muslim] or their ethnicity?


Why does that bother you so much ?


Of course it's not true, but in what sense is it abhorrent?


It can certainly have it's advantages. Sometimes irrational fear is the only thing that makes a person behave when they aren't being watched. Do I teach my own children this? no.

Why'd you bother saying such ludicruously retarded things when you don't actually support this viewpoint? Teaching kids religion only leads to more pain for them when they realise they've been lied to most of their life. The lucky ones just stay in the fold but the rest get to experience apostacy, probably in their teen years.


Believing that doesn't necessarily do any harm.

It kinda often does, actually, because 1. no-one exists in a social vacuum and 2. many of these people will reach places where they can do a lot of damage. This whole Bill Nye thing is proof of what religion spread too thick does- it shuts out the truth and makes you a fucking moron.

socratic
26th April 09, 09:25 AM
And you really shouldn't get uppity at Virus for repeating atheistic banter when you spew the same conservative shit about taxes and welfare every time someone even thinks of mentioning money. And you can't even debate the matter seriously, because you refuse to accept that there really are good causes worth spending everyone's money on. Like healthcare. Seriously, "Fuck everyone" gets really bloody annoying after the millionth time. Like, almost as annoying as atheist rants.

But not quite.

Cullion
26th April 09, 09:30 AM
Pro-tip: You'd have to be retarded to claim that Hitler, Franco, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot's genocides were all entirely [or perhaps even significantly] religiously inspired rather than politically or ethnically inspired.

Ah, so the atrocities were just something that happened aside their atheism rather than there being a causal relationship ? I think you might be starting to get the point.


If you aren't talking about cumulitive death totals over entire regimes then most of the big ones were probably by Muslims,

No, they weren't.



but even then not all of those would be religiously inspired and more about ethnic cleansing. Was the several Kurdish genocides about religion [since they aren't muslim] or their ethnicity?

The majority of kurds are muslim. The rest of your post exemplifies a simillarly poor grasp of the facts.



Why'd you bother saying such ludicruously retarded things when you don't actually support this viewpoint?

Because I don't believe that Atheists do themselves any favours by saying ignorant, palpably untrue things.



Teaching kids religion only leads to more pain for them when they realise they've been lied to most of their life. The lucky ones just stay in the fold but the rest get to experience apostacy, probably in their teen years.

Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about. I never experienced apostasy, I simply don't believe that Catholic dogma is founded on literal truth.



It kinda often does, actually, because 1. no-one exists in a social vacuum and 2. many of these people will reach places where they can do a lot of damage. This whole Bill Nye thing is proof of what religion spread too thick does- it shuts out the truth and makes you a fucking moron.

It seems to be the case with atheists too. This Bill Nye thing has nothing to do with 'the truth' and all about smug atheists getting butt-hurt because people find rationalism expressed as nerd-rage insulting.

Cullion
26th April 09, 09:35 AM
And you really shouldn't get uppity at Virus for repeating atheistic banter when you spew the same conservative shit about taxes and welfare every time someone even thinks of mentioning money.

The differences are:-

1) Most people here don't agree, so there's a debate to be had.

2) I don't talk about taxes and welfare every time the subject of money is raised.



And you can't even debate the matter seriously, because you refuse to accept that there really are good causes worth spending everyone's money on.

You don't even seem to know what my actual position is on most issues. Stop and do some reading before you try and construct an argument.

Kiko
26th April 09, 09:35 AM
I recently posted that corruption is equal opportunity. I'd like to add willful ignorance to that list, please.

TheLordHumungus
26th April 09, 10:56 AM
Pro-tip: You'd have to be retarded to claim that Hitler, Franco, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot's genocides were all entirely [or perhaps even significantly] religiously inspired rather than politically or ethnically inspired. If you aren't talking about cumulitive death totals over entire regimes then most of the big ones were probably by Muslims, but even then not all of those would be religiously inspired and more about ethnic cleansing. Was the several Kurdish genocides about religion [since they aren't muslim] or their ethnicity?

Why are we putting the Nazis on the list of atheist groups who committed atrocities? Not only did they advocate 'positive christianity", but it was their justification for their mastery over nonbelievers (or slaves).

And didn't Franco call himself the defender of christian Europe against atheist communism?

Cullion
26th April 09, 11:16 AM
Franco wasn't the same as Hitler in his beliefs, although they were both Facists.

To Hitler, religion was just a propaganda tool. The mystically inclined in the SS officer corps got into acting-out quasi-Nordic pagan rituals because Christianity with its ideals of forgiveness and equality of men was considered a Jewish trick to turn red-blooded Aryan supermen into confused, compassionate pussies.

TheLordHumungus
26th April 09, 11:51 AM
But even if Hitler himself were an atheist, the Nazi party was not. And they were as good at turning religion to their ends as American conservatives are now.

Virus
26th April 09, 11:55 AM
Ah, so the atrocities were just something that happened aside their atheism rather than there being a causal relationship ? I think you might be starting to get the point.


Cullion, was Lenin's violence due to his unwillingness to accept the divine origins of the bible or koran?

Cullion
26th April 09, 11:59 AM
Cullion, was Lenin's violence due to his unwillingness to accept the divine origins of the bible or koran?

No moreso than Charlemagne's violence was due to him reading 'The Sermon on the Mount', and that's my point.

TheLordHumungus
26th April 09, 10:56 PM
No moreso than Charlemagne's violence was due to him reading 'The Sermon on the Mount', and that's my point.

Fair enough, but that does leave the Inquisition, the Crusades, Sunni/Shia violence, Irael/ everyone around them, etc. I'm not saying that all conflict is based around religion, but some wouldn't exist without it.

Not to mention the fact the the bible contains passages bigoted against women, homosexuals, and other races. So do the koran and the torrah, as well as a bunch of other holy books. I don't care if you believe that Mein Kampf is the word of god, except that you're gonna feel compelled to live by that vile shit and try to spread it.

nihilist
26th April 09, 11:14 PM
Logical arguments have little to no effect on Cullion.

WarPhalange
26th April 09, 11:49 PM
Exactly. You can't defeat him. You have to distract him with open-ended and little-tested arguments about economy and politics.

Toby Christensen
27th April 09, 01:02 AM
In Australia we have the Muslims being (very unfortunately) scared of Whitey Crackertensen when I nod and smile on my walks, people accosting people in crowds to "Ask them their views on God" (although thankfully they are knocking that off as far as I can see) and the dissolution of the old religions amongst two of the more politically poweful groups (Islanders and Maoris and Aboriginal people)

Me? When we die (as in our brain turns to dust/ash) there CAN be no more being. Where do you think the soul IS?

There is no disproving this cos of the "mistranslation of 3000 year old texts".

Also, what makes Christianity truer than the (damaged) Asatru, animism, Tibetan Buddhism, the Dreaming etc.?

Fearless Ukemi
27th April 09, 12:18 PM
Fair enough, but that does leave the Inquisition, the Crusades, Sunni/Shia violence, Irael/ everyone around them, etc. I'm not saying that all conflict is based around religion, but some wouldn't exist without it.


You're 2 for 4, and I'm being generous giving you the Crusades. Also, the Catholic church recognizes the inquisitions were wrong and teaches that.

Sunn/Shia violence is derived from tribalism as is Israel. They were killing each other before they ever became muslims.



In Australia we have the Muslims being (very unfortunately) scared of Whitey Crackertensen when I nod and smile on my walks, people accosting people in crowds to "Ask them their views on God" (although thankfully they are knocking that off as far as I can see) and the dissolution of the old religions amongst two of the more politically poweful groups (Islanders and Maoris and Aboriginal people)

Me? When we die (as in our brain turns to dust/ash) there CAN be no more being. Where do you think the soul IS?

There is no disproving this cos of the "mistranslation of 3000 year old texts".

Also, what makes Christianity truer than the (damaged) Asatru, animism, Tibetan Buddhism, the Dreaming etc.?

What the hell are you babbling about?

TheLordHumungus
27th April 09, 12:43 PM
You're 2 for 4, and I'm being generous giving you the Crusades. Also, the Catholic church recognizes the inquisitions were wrong and teaches that.

Sunn/Shia violence is derived from tribalism as is Israel. They were killing each other before they ever became muslims.

But religion (the spread of Islam) has taken that tribal war and spread it all over the world. It went from minor conflict to global jihad.

HappyOldGuy
27th April 09, 12:53 PM
But religion (the spread of Islam) has taken that tribal war and spread it all over the world. It went from minor conflict to global jihad.

So you see lots of sunni/shia violence in the streets in the US?

TheLordHumungus
27th April 09, 01:38 PM
No, personally I'm more familiar with persecution by protestants towards other groups here in the states.

I have seen stories like this one, (http://www.pressandguide.com/stories/011407/loc_20070114002.shtml) To be fair though, the sources are never at all credible.

I was talking more about the spread of sectarian violence through Africa and into Asia and Europe. That's quite a diaspora for a mere tribal skirmish.

Spade: The Real Snake
27th April 09, 01:46 PM
So we've taken a story about a dude who daisy-chains kids on a static electricity machine into a Socio/Theological discussion.

*checks browser*

Yep, it's Sociocide.

Virus
28th April 09, 03:28 AM
Cullion;

A person literally believes the creator of the universe wants him to be a dick to people. The person will be:

a) More likely to be a dick to people.

b) Less likely to be a dick to people.

c) The belief will have no effect on the likelihood of being a dick to people.

d) I reckon the show "Heroes" is the suck and I fail to see the fascination with it.