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View Full Version : [UNSOURCED] Oh Noes! Wingnuts Ain't Gonna Like This...Stimulus Projects UNDER Budget



Robot Jesus
14th April 09, 02:18 PM
Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:15:51 PM PDT

Overshadowed by the pirate rescue mission, the Easter Egg Roll, and the new Obama puppy, the little reported news is that the stimulus package may actually be, well, working.

That, of course, is enough to make a Republican strategist to tear their hair out. But the worst part of the story?

The bill's projects are coming in under budget

Oh my. This HAS to be good news for John McCain, right?

* wmtriallawyer's diary :: ::
*

Little noticed this afternoon was President Obama's second trip of his term to the Department of Transportation where he gave remarks on the progress of the stimulus projects so far. The highlight was the announcement that they have already approved 2,000 (!) stimulus projects in just 41 days.

But the kicker was this little nugget:

Today, because these projects are getting approved more quickly than we thought, thanks to in large part the outstanding work of the TIGER team and folks here at the Department of Transportation, and because these projects are costing less than we thought, we can utter a sentence rarely heard in recent years: This government effort is coming in ahead of schedule and under budget.

Need details? Obama had them:

And that's why I'm pleased to hear that in state after state across America, competition for these projects is so fierce, and contractors are doing such a good job cutting costs, that projects are consistently coming in under budget. The final bid for one road project in Connecticut was $8.4 million less than the state budgeted for. Another one in Louisiana was $4.7 million less. (Diarist's note: Take THAT, Gov. Jindal!) A project at BWI Airport will be completed for $8 million less than expected. Bids for projects in North Carolina have been 19 percent under budget. Colorado is reporting bids up to 30 percent less than they expected. And the officials in California have seen bids that are close to half as much as they had projected.

Obama projected a creation of 150,000 jobs by the end of the year from the transportation projects alone. One wonders how all these projects created jobs AND came in under budget. After all, wasn't this supposed to be the awful debt creating monster of a stimulus package the Republicans worried about? That wouldn't create any jobs at all? That would sink us as a country?

Well, I've got a theory as to why they are under budget, and I can sum it up in one word: transparency. See, bids tend to me more realistic, money tends to be spent more wisely and prudently, and you tend to get more bang for your buck when every state in the union has to tell the American people how the money is going to be spent...on inter-tubes, no less. (UPDATE: And combine that with, as people have rightly pointed out, more bids, less costs, more willingness to get projects to put people to work, while in a down economy...and you have a perfect storm of getting more bang for our stimulus buck.)

So while the media rah-rahs the rescue, ogles Bo the PWD, and watches the kiddies roll the Easter eggs, give me this story now and twice on Sunday.

Because it actually shows how government can work for the people.

And make a wingnuts head explode.

That's a two-fer of change I can believe in.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


I would prefer someone not so blatantly biased to have reported this, but it will piss off the astroturfs so in that it's a good thing.

WarPhalange
14th April 09, 02:19 PM
Link or it didn't happen.

Robot Jesus
14th April 09, 02:35 PM
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/4/13/719600/-Oh-Noes!-Wingnuts-Aint-Gonna-Like-This...Stimulus-Projects-UNDER-Budget

Sirc
14th April 09, 02:45 PM
So it's under 700billion?

Well that's good, because 650B is so much better?

Cullion
14th April 09, 02:55 PM
ho ho ho.

If the point was Keynsian stimulus, why would they be pleased about coming in under budget ? The whole fucking point is to piss money away

The one time the civil service is asked to piss money away.. they fuck it up by being careful

Do you poor rubes not see the beautiful, beautiful stupidity here?

Cullion
14th April 09, 02:57 PM
'We need to print $700 billion and spread it around the economy'
.
.
.
'Careful now'
.
.
.
'We actually spread $600 billion around, because we were careful. Aren't you pleased?'

Robot Jesus
14th April 09, 02:58 PM
that what I was thinking, but I decided to comment on how this will confuse the faux populus outrage the right wing pundents have been surfing on.

Cullion
14th April 09, 02:59 PM
Here's what will happen next. They're going to start fucking up on purpose, because if they're too careful, then the next time the govt. decides to borrow hundreds of billions to piss away, they'll be expected to do it on a tighter budget..

That's what will actually happen.

Re-read that first paragraph and let the layers of stupidity and irony sink on, one after another.

HappyOldGuy
14th April 09, 03:07 PM
Or possibly they'll, you know, fund an extra hundred billion in capital projects.

But the funny was not lost on me. You get points for the funny.

Cullion
14th April 09, 04:14 PM
Why don't they like, drop taxes to zero and just print all the money they need?

As long as they keep being careful with the projects, that would be awesome, right?

Robot Jesus
14th April 09, 04:22 PM
are you opposed to bank lending any amount more than they have in there vaults?

Cullion
14th April 09, 04:23 PM
yes.

Spade: The Real Snake
14th April 09, 05:22 PM
The Daily Kos?

R-E-A-L-L-Y-?-?-?

Robot Jesus
14th April 09, 05:34 PM
as I said, I wish this dident come from someone with such an obvious bias.

Dagon Akujin
14th April 09, 06:16 PM
Sorry, I didn't hear this because I've been listening to too much Republican radio lately. And lately all they've been talking about is how Obama had nothing to do with the Somalian pirate scandle and how they have proof that he's a muslim terrorist who's trying to turn the USA into an Islamic state.

Once again, not shitting you on that. Right-wing radio is actually making that claim (and I wish Hannity, Levin, Rush, et al., would all just go to jail for slander. That or that 4chan would take them on for their next big Anonymous cause).

Cullion
14th April 09, 06:17 PM
Or possibly they'll, you know, fund an extra hundred billion in capital projects.

How will that help ?

HappyOldGuy
14th April 09, 06:18 PM
How will that help ?

You obviously haven't driven on our roads around here.

Cullion
14th April 09, 06:21 PM
Why did you wait for the credit derivatives market to collapse before fixing them. I don't get it?

Phrost
14th April 09, 08:52 PM
Sorry, I didn't hear this because I've been listening to too much Republican radio lately. And lately all they've been talking about is how Obama had nothing to do with the Somalian pirate scandle and how they have proof that he's a muslim terrorist who's trying to turn the USA into an Islamic state.

Once again, not shitting you on that. Right-wing radio is actually making that claim (and I wish Hannity, Levin, Rush, et al., would all just go to jail for slander. That or that 4chan would take them on for their next big Anonymous cause).

Actually, the talking point is that Hillary Clinton is laughing at the fact that they're "Pirates", and Obama refuses to call them terrorists.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
14th April 09, 09:31 PM
Why did you wait for the credit derivatives market to collapse before fixing them. I don't get it?

Because fixing them would have cost money. It still costs money now but at least we can call it a public works project to stimulate the job market instead of having to part with important cocaine and stripper money for something as trivial vital infrastructure.

Seriously though our roads are like Fallout FOR REAL.

socratic
14th April 09, 10:33 PM
So wait, why is it that saving money is bad!? And why is it that public works, which are a tried and true method of pulling economies out of shitter [see: ancient Rome, ex-Weimar Germany and post-war Japan for obvious examples] are bad?

WarPhalange
14th April 09, 10:36 PM
I'm keeping this as unsourced because Daily Kos is too biased, like you admit, and because I am lazy.

Robot Jesus
14th April 09, 10:41 PM
could you change that to biased as fuck

EuropIan
15th April 09, 05:02 AM
So wait, why is it that saving money is bad!? And why is it that public works, which are a tried and true method of pulling economies out of shitter [see: ancient Rome, ex-Weimar Germany and post-war Japan for obvious examples] are bad?
GET YER DAMN PAWS OFF MAH MONAH!!!!!!!

Shawarma
15th April 09, 05:54 AM
GET YER DAMN PAWS OFF MAH MONAH!!!!!!!
???????
http://www.cs.nthu.edu.tw/%7Esheu/Images/Monet.jpg

EuropIan
15th April 09, 05:58 AM
It's clearly an impressionist issue.

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 08:01 AM
Actually, the talking point is that Hillary Clinton is laughing at the fact that they're "Pirates", and Obama refuses to call them terrorists.


They are Freedom Fighters and Revolutionaries.

The latest claim is all US ships will now need to be branded with the East India Trading Company logo

socratic
15th April 09, 08:12 AM
GET YER DAMN PAWS OFF MAH MONAH!!!!!!!

Dude, the only people who oppose taxes are rich libertarian fucks who probably got that money by boiling babies or something.

EuropIan
15th April 09, 08:42 AM
Dude, the only people who oppose taxes are rich libertarian fucks who probably got that money by boiling babies or something.
"We don't pay taxes, only little people pay taxes".

Cullion
15th April 09, 02:03 PM
So wait, why is it that saving money is bad!?

Because nobody is saving any money here. What they're doing is creating money out of nothing with the intent of throwing it around. The one time the government has a stated aim of doing this, rather than making excuses about unexpected costs and needing more funding, it fucks it up.

For money to be saved, the government would need to be reducing expenditure and paying down its debt and/or draining less from the private economy in taxation.



And why is it that public works, which are a tried and true method of pulling economies out of shitter [see: ancient Rome, ex-Weimar Germany and post-war Japan for obvious examples] are bad?

No they aren't. Ancient Rome fell apart debasing its currency to pay for bread and circuses. Hitler made the supply of goods keep up with the supply of credit by seizing resources by military means, and this exact same programme has failed horribly in Japan.

Japan's post-war reconstruction was investment in export-generating industries, not 'environmental taskforces' or simply getting the government to build internal infrastructure.

Remember, Japan was a creditor nation, with a high savings rate, and Keynsian policies still haven't pulled it out of the slump it got into in the mid 90s.

Now, let's look at an even closer case-study;

Ever heard of the 'Great Depression of 1921' ?

theotherserge
15th April 09, 02:31 PM
^thank you. Can these assholes now shut-up about how "successful" the bailout is. I'm waiting for my grandchildren's opinion on that fuckery...

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 02:41 PM
Are these the same wingnuts or different wingnuts that the DHS is memoing about?

theotherserge
15th April 09, 03:16 PM
Are these the same wingnuts or different wingnuts that the DHS is memoing about?
Well, there's metric and standard; there used to be Whitworth but that's only on old Matchless&BSA motorcycles IIRC.

Sirc
15th April 09, 03:22 PM
Sorry, I didn't hear this because I've been listening to too much Republican radio lately. And lately all they've been talking about is how Obama had nothing to do with the Somalian pirate scandle and how they have proof that he's a muslim terrorist who's trying to turn the USA into an Islamic state.

Once again, not shitting you on that. Right-wing radio is actually making that claim (and I wish Hannity, Levin, Rush, et al., would all just go to jail for slander. That or that 4chan would take them on for their next big Anonymous cause).

Please stop mentioning 4chan and "Anonymous Causes" together in the same sentence.

Robot Jesus
15th April 09, 03:29 PM
Because nobody is saving any money here. What they're doing is creating money out of nothing with the intent of throwing it around. The one time the government has a stated aim of doing this, rather than making excuses about unexpected costs and needing more funding, it fucks it up.

For money to be saved, the government would need to be reducing expenditure and paying down its debt and/or draining less from the private economy in taxation.



No they aren't. Ancient Rome fell apart debasing its currency to pay for bread and circuses. Hitler made the supply of goods keep up with the supply of credit by seizing resources by military means, and this exact same programme has failed horribly in Japan.

Japan's post-war reconstruction was investment in export-generating industries, not 'environmental taskforces' or simply getting the government to build internal infrastructure.

Remember, Japan was a creditor nation, with a high savings rate, and Keynsian policies still haven't pulled it out of the slump it got into in the mid 90s.

Now, let's look at an even closer case-study;

Ever heard of the 'Great Depression of 1921' ?


now why does Krugman have the nobel pize instead of you?

Cullion
15th April 09, 03:33 PM
Same reason Al Gore does. Because he confirmed the biases of the comittee.

You just made a silly argument from authority too, but you know that.

I can name other Nobel Economists who don't agree with him. Would that help ?

Robot Jesus
15th April 09, 03:56 PM
an argument from athority does have its place.

a nobel prize winning economist can be wrong, but so can an overweight man from oxford.

but i digress.

I maintain that if properly applyed monetary policy allows a government to take a loan from the future. if it then spends the money wisely and pays off the debt in a timely manner economic growth is possible.

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 04:04 PM
an argument from athority does have its place.

a nobel prize winning economist can be wrong, but so can an overweight man from oxford.

but i digress.

I maintain that if properly applyed monetary policy allows a government to take a loan from the future. if it then spends the money wisely and pays off the debt in a timely manner economic growth is possible.

Unless said government decides that *printing* the money to pay off said loan, thus devaluing all monies currently in circulation, is the reasonable answer.

Robot Jesus
15th April 09, 04:11 PM
no, thats how the government creates the "loan".

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 04:25 PM
no, thats how the government creates the "loan".

what a coincidence, this will be how they pay the "loan" as well.

Robot Jesus
15th April 09, 04:56 PM
printing money is the loan, so printing more money is paying a lone with a loan.

I think you already knew that, but i wassent shure.

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 05:01 PM
printing money is the loan, so printing more money is paying a lone with a loan.

I think you already knew that, but i wassent shure.
Oh.
I totally knew that.

It is a creation of money to spend with the hopes it will be paid off through the "good works" being created by said loan.

And if those "good works" don't germinate seeds of the money trees they expect, then hell, just print up more money and pay ourselves back. All the while devaluing the existing currency out there.

Cullion
15th April 09, 05:05 PM
an argument from athority does have its place.

a nobel prize winning economist can be wrong, but so can an overweight man from oxford.

but i digress.

Thank you for making yourself my bitch.



I maintain that if properly applyed monetary policy allows a government to take a loan from the future. if it then spends the money wisely and pays off the debt in a timely manner economic growth is possible.

What's your definition of properly applied ?

What are your historical examples of this working out well ?

Cullion
15th April 09, 05:08 PM
See, Snake understands the Ponzi scheme nature of such a monetary policy.

In fact, it's exactly doing this that has caused the current crisis. But you're just hoping that crossing your fingers and asking for more of the same, directed through government make-work programmes and bailouts for businesses that have already shown themselves to have shakey business models will work out alright.

HappyOldGuy
15th April 09, 05:26 PM
It's exactly this that has produced the current crisis AND the unprecedented levels of smooth growth ever since WWII. TAANSTAFL bitches. Or as I just (failed) to explain to my boss. Stop looking for the fucking magic pixie dust.

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 05:28 PM
Obama needs to Xombify FDR and have an undead army of Civilian Conservation Corps.

Cullion
15th April 09, 05:32 PM
It's exactly this that has produced the current crisis AND the unprecedented levels of smooth growth ever since WWII.

Except it's not. Because you only closed down Bretton Woods in the 70s so money creation was somewhat restricted until then. Since then it's also what's produced the steady decline in working and middle class salary purchasing power. The problem is, the way most economists measure growth doesn't show how it translates very well to wealth. Most of the real economic growth is down to technological advances. It's not down to money printing.

The monetary manipulation has simply managed to lengthen the cycle, storing up trouble.



TAANSTAFL bitches.

Exactly. Why you think printing paper tickets could solve any economic problem is therefore beyond me.

HappyOldGuy
15th April 09, 05:33 PM
Exactly. Why you think printing paper tickets could solve any economic problem is therefore beyond me.
And why you think a particular number of protons on a nucleus could solve them is beyond me. They aren't solveable. They are only manageable.

Cullion
15th April 09, 05:36 PM
We can only test our theories by making predictions and seeing how well they match up with the real world.

The methods your supporting really didn't work that great in the late 20s. The economist who espouse them were largely blindsided by what has just happened. The economists I agree with largely weren't.

IMO, what you're espousing is simply mismanagement that allows you to build up a really big dangerous bubble over the course of decades.

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 05:43 PM
We can only test our theories by making predictions and seeing how well they match up with the real world.

The methods your supporting really didn't work that great in the late 20s. The economist who espouse them were largely blindsided by what has just happened. The economists I agree with largely weren't.

IMO, what you're espousing is simply mismanagement that allows you to build up a really big dangerous bubble over the course of decades.

However:

if we didn't have pesky things like Environmental Impact Studies, Worker's Safety Concerns, Minority Bidding Preferences......we could probably get a whole shitload of these prospective projects up and running now.

All obstacles which most likely didn't impede FDR.

HappyOldGuy
15th April 09, 05:53 PM
We can only test our theories by making predictions and seeing how well they match up with the real world.

The methods your supporting really didn't work that great in the late 20s. The economist who espouse them were largely blindsided by what has just happened. The economists I agree with largely weren't.

IMO, what you're espousing is simply mismanagement that allows you to build up a really big dangerous bubble over the course of decades.

Who was following keynesian economics in the late 20's?

Robot Jesus
15th April 09, 06:30 PM
I would say the reason keynesian economics hasent worked well to date is that it's never been properly applyed, in that no one ever seems to pay off debt.

Quikfeet509
15th April 09, 07:11 PM
This thread is very informative. Now tell me who to invest in so I can go back to my life.

Cullion
15th April 09, 07:34 PM
However:

if we didn't have pesky things like Environmental Impact Studies, Worker's Safety Concerns, Minority Bidding Preferences......we could probably get a whole shitload of these prospective projects up and running now.

All obstacles which most likely didn't impede FDR.

No, and his plan failed too.

The reason I asked about 1921, is that there was a serious credit contraction then too. But because there was no intervention, and businesses were just allowed to fail, the economy cleaned out the dead wood and was recovering strongly within 18 months.

When the big stimulus plans were applied at the end of the decade, and through the 30s, they created a zombie-like economy, just as we saw in Japan more recently.

Robot Jesus
15th April 09, 08:24 PM
what is your opinion of the hoover administration?

Cullion
15th April 09, 08:28 PM
Well, most of what I know about him concerns his economic policies. He tried to intervene, but all the attempts failed.

I know somewhat less about his policies in other areas, but he sounds like an authoritarian technocrat who basically espoused a view of how a country should be run that's pretty much the opposite of what I believe in.

Robot Jesus
15th April 09, 08:36 PM
It's been a while since american history civil war-present, from my limited understanding Hoover attempted intervention but took as many steps as possible to make it a completly volotary act.

for example both FDR and Hoover attempted to cause food prices to rise by getting farmers to produce less food. FDR did this through a subsity encoraged plan administered through very local boards.

hoover asked nicely.

Im probably glossing over important details, but it's been quite a while.

Cullion
15th April 09, 08:58 PM
Yeah. They both failed. I've read a bit more about Hoover, and he at least seemed to try to follow a peaceful and diplomatic foreign policy.

Robot Jesus
15th April 09, 09:45 PM
actulay larger economic implications aside. FDR's program worked. farmers watched their folk and came down on anyone who fucked shit up.

but that may only be important because of the "rain follows the plaow" theory.

Zendetta
15th April 09, 09:50 PM
you have the worst spelling/typing EVER.

theotherserge
15th April 09, 10:45 PM
I would say the reason keynesian economics hasent worked well to date is that it's never been properly applyed, in that no one ever seems to pay off debt.

Sounds like the "socialism has never been properly applied" chesnut.

A readily available example of "govenrment works" is the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge: it was significantly damaged in the 1989 earthquake. It's now 2009 and the fukking Cal government project is almost done with it at something like 300%cost overruns. Who cares how accurate/inaccurate my recall is, the point being THIS WAS AN URGENT/ASAP project!!!

The 1909 earthquake, they had morse code and trains, big Teddy Rooseveldt got aid there within 10 days. To contrast, the whole world watched while the fucking idiots could barely figure out what to do about Katrina.

We want these same assholes taking massive amounts of $$$ that they can't even qualify/quantify? Managing our health care? Getting even more involved in our day2day lives? Are you kidding me!?

Also RJ, are you getting sauced on the internetz!? We love you and are here to help.

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 11:05 PM
No, and his plan failed too.

The reason I asked about 1921, is that there was a serious credit contraction then too. But because there was no intervention, and businesses were just allowed to fail, the economy cleaned out the dead wood and was recovering strongly within 18 months.

When the big stimulus plans were applied at the end of the decade, and through the 30s, they created a zombie-like economy, just as we saw in Japan more recently.

I think the reason you are asking about 1921 is that directly created the influence for Keynesian theory.

Spade: The Real Snake
15th April 09, 11:11 PM
A readily available example of "govenrment works" is the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge: it was significantly damaged in the 1989 earthquake. It's now 2009 and the fukking Cal government project is almost done with it at something like 300%cost overruns. Who cares how accurate/inaccurate my recall is, the point being THIS WAS AN URGENT/ASAP project!!!

The 1909 earthquake, they had morse code and trains, big Teddy Rooseveldt got aid there within 10 days. To contrast, the whole world watched while the fucking idiots could barely figure out what to do about Katrina.

We want these same assholes taking massive amounts of $$$ that they can't even qualify/quantify? Managing our health care? Getting even more involved in our day2day lives? Are you kidding me!?



This is pretty much the same with the Hoover Dam and the current bypass bridge.

After 9/11 it was determined the dam was a high-priority target for terrorist as California, Nevada, Arizona and Utah get large amounts of their electricity from the station, not to mention the potential flood damage it would create.

They restrict traffic over the dam to motorists only and routed all truck traffic to an alternative route with a good 100+ mile addition. Plans were created for the bypass in 2002 and it was supposed to be done in 2005....then 2007....then 2010. What went from a 3-4 year project is now an 8+ year project or more.

In other words it will take twice as much time to build a bridge using year 2000 technology then it did to create the dam in the first place, using depression era technology, equipment and workers.

theotherserge
15th April 09, 11:50 PM
depressing really; that is one of dozens of examples. I should move my family to a yurt in the playa...

Ajamil
16th April 09, 10:22 AM
Once again, not shitting you on that. Right-wing radio is actually making that claim (and I wish Hannity, Levin, Rush, et al., would all just go to jail for slander. That or that 4chan would take them on for their next big Anonymous cause).
Right wing radio hosts are the original trolls, tho. Why would Anon want to take down successful troll jobs?

This is pretty much the same with the Hoover Dam and the current bypass bridge.
Terrorists or not have you tried driving over that dam? Fucker's always backed up, and they need that bypass.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th April 09, 11:17 AM
Terrorists or not have you tried driving over that dam? Fucker's always backed up, and they need that bypass.

Terrorists.
They had proposed a bypass after "NAFTA" indicated US 93 would be a major North/South shipping route, however numerous factors would get in the way, one of which being the "legitimate" alternate route of going through Searchlight (HARRY REIDVILLE).

After 9-11 they began routing trucks, trailers, RVS, buses throught Searchlight and would stop and randomly check cars, which caused part of the backup......that and the tourist who randomly walk in front of cars.

It isn't *always* backed up, mainly traffic going into Nevada on Fri/Sat morning/evenings and leaving Nevada on Sun/Mon morning evenings.

Robot Jesus
16th April 09, 12:45 PM
Sounds like the "socialism has never been properly applied" chesnut.



Also RJ, are you getting sauced on the internetz!? We love you and are here to help.


socialism is a highly complicated system where an inefficient bureaucracy tries to understand the laws of supply and demand.


Keynesian economics has two steps. go into debt, then, get out of debt.


A then B.

but instead all we get is A then A then A then A then A then A...

I agree that this is a bad pattern and doomed to fail, but you halve to conced that the ponzi scheme is not the same as the economic theory.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th April 09, 12:54 PM
Let us devise a new economic theory involving Check Kiting at the highest levels.

Robot Jesus
16th April 09, 02:18 PM
Let us devise a new economic theory involving Check Kiting at the highest levels.


why not?

Ajamil
19th April 09, 05:59 PM
Terrorists.
They had proposed a bypass after "NAFTA" indicated US 93 would be a major North/South shipping route, however numerous factors would get in the way, one of which being the "legitimate" alternate route of going through Searchlight (HARRY REIDVILLE).

After 9-11 they began routing trucks, trailers, RVS, buses throught Searchlight and would stop and randomly check cars, which caused part of the backup......that and the tourist who randomly walk in front of cars.

It isn't *always* backed up, mainly traffic going into Nevada on Fri/Sat morning/evenings and leaving Nevada on Sun/Mon morning evenings.

I remember working at the Glen Canyon Dam in order to map out where a water pipe would have to be laid so they could string it under the bridge there. We got a tour from one of the workers (once they figured out who we were - THAT was fun...) and he explained the composure of concrete and the strength in it, etc. He actually mentioned that he'd like to see some nutjobs try and crash a plane into the dam - that it would hardly make a dent.

Still, it was a fun job and being confused for terrorists because the Dam company decided a surveying team wasn't important enough to mention to security always makes for an interesting anecdote.

Japuma
19th April 09, 08:18 PM
I like how these projects were BID under budget... Thats nothing to say what the acctual cost will be when projects are completed. I work for the Maryland State Highway Administration in as a construction project manager, and i've seen some of the first stimulus project awarded bids. The contracts are bidding these retardly low, because they know they are going to make in up in the long run due to change orders, problems with the plans and claims. I would bet (atleast in MD) that 75% of these projects will be overrun.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th April 09, 12:50 PM
I remember working at the Glen Canyon Dam in order to map out where a water pipe would have to be laid so they could string it under the bridge there. We got a tour from one of the workers (once they figured out who we were - THAT was fun...) and he explained the composure of concrete and the strength in it, etc. He actually mentioned that he'd like to see some nutjobs try and crash a plane into the dam - that it would hardly make a dent.

Still, it was a fun job and being confused for terrorists because the Dam company decided a surveying team wasn't important enough to mention to security always makes for an interesting anecdote.


They weren't as much concerned with air traffic, although the tourist flights are restricted now, they were concerned with a rental truck or houseboat filled with explosives.

A larger plane wouldn't be able to really make it into that canyon.