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View Full Version : Good Friday's Easter Anti-sermon.



Virus
10th April 09, 02:53 AM
ABC News put up the following article today:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/10/2540571.htm

The article reminds me of a conversation I had with a minister a few days ago. There was a knock on my door and it was the local minister handing out flyers for the church down the road. Although I was in the middle of studying for a neuroscience exam, I was happy to take the time out to explain why his beliefs were wrong.

"Some very intelligent people believe in god because they have examined the evidence." he said.

"What evidence?"

"Well, there's lot of things."

"Give me the one you think is best. The one you think is the clincher."

"The resurrection of Jesus Christ."

I explained to him why this was a feeble argument. He said that there is "archeological evidence" that the event is true. When I asked him what that archeological evidence was, he couldn't tell me. He instead told me that "It was witnessed by five hundred people." an argument I've heard people use before, for some reason people find it convincing.

"None of those five hundred people wrote anything down. Writings about Jesus only came about at least 40 years after he died so it's really just a story about five hundred people seeing a dead person come alive again."

He didn't have an answer to that. The person that actually believes that Jesus was a real person, with magic powers, has his work out out for him. You'd think that a person with magic powers would have drawn crowds from all over the world and be the talk of the town from as far as the news could travel. Except it wasn't. I informed the minister that the historical record is completely absent of accounts of a guy called Jesus with magic powers. "The Romans covered it up." he replied. I told him that was weak because if he was as famous as the gospels say he was, word would have gotten around and at least one of those crowds who came from all over the middle east must have been able to read.

At one point in the discussion, he said that I'm in denial of god. I told him that he was in denial of Zeus. He needs to open his heart to Zeus and accept Zeus as the real god. "You've got a clever answer for everything" he said. I asked him if he believed in the Garden of Eden and the talking snake and he became evasive and wouldn't give me a straight answer.

We left on good terms. This was actually the second time we talked and he remembered my name.

The article says that religious leaders need to be more flexible on the literalism of Jesus's magic abilities. Unfortunately, that's what it means to be a Christian. Christianity is based on a Hebrew tribal god, Yahweh who takes on human form and sacrifices himself to himself to prevent himself punishing his own creation. And if you believe that this happened, you are saved from the inevitable torture of the dead that he has planned for you.

This is why I give a modicum of respect to Judaism. There's no torture of the dead, and acceptance of the Messiah to prevent it. They don't go around trying to save people's souls from torture. They pretty much just want to keep to themselves and occasionally wear a silly hat. Does Christianity have anything going for it? Well, at least it's not Islam.

Steve
10th April 09, 04:18 AM
It's too bad he wasn't a scientific theologian.

He could have come back at you with the theories of evolution and the big bang. After all, they are just that.

Yes, I'm a spiritual person. You have faith in science, just like I have faith in that something didn't come from nothing.

Virus
10th April 09, 05:45 AM
It's too bad he wasn't a scientific theologian.

Yes. Wasn't it.



He could have come back at you with the theories of evolution and the big bang. After all, they are just that.

What do you think the word "theory" means in science? It doesn't mean a guess. Evolution and the Big Bang are supported by robust, objective, measurable evidence. Theology is supported by nothing. They aren't even remotely similar concepts.



Yes, I'm a spiritual person. You have faith in science, just like I have faith in that something didn't come from nothing.

No scientist ever demands that his conclusions be accepted on faith. Physicists don't even say that the universe came from nothing. It was compressed into a small space and it expanded. It didn't appear by magic, which is actually what you think happened.

Do you really think scientists just sit there and go "Yeah, neurons must conduct current. I just feel it to be true. Just believe and it will all make sense. It gives my life meaning." Your attempts at equivocating the scientific method with religious faith are fail.

Cullion
10th April 09, 08:24 AM
What's your take on the writings of Josephus, Pliny and Tacitus regarding Jesus?

Cullion
10th April 09, 08:27 AM
No scientist ever demands that his conclusions be accepted on faith.

Yes they do, they require faith in logic.



Physicists don't even say that the universe came from nothing.

Which cosmological theory are you refering to? Which physicists?



Do you really think scientists just sit there and go "Yeah, neurons must conduct current. I just feel it to be true. Just believe and it will all make sense. It gives my life meaning." Your attempts at equivocating the scientific method with religious faith are fail.

No, they measure the current and have faith that repeatability acts as a philosophical proof.

MrBadGuy
10th April 09, 09:41 AM
God, what a bunch of dorks.


Now if you excuse me, I'm off to pray to Odin.

Virus
10th April 09, 10:22 AM
What's your take on the writings of Josephus, Pliny and Tacitus regarding Jesus?

Josephus: Testimonium Flavianum is regarded as an Christian interpolation.

Pliny: in 111-113 CE he found some Christians and wrote a letter asking what to do with them. All that shows is that there were Christians in the second century.

Tacitus: From 115 CE "Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius." Is this the story of what happened or did he have access to execution orders or some other document? He doesn't say, and he gets Pilate's title wrong.

So, vague accounts from decades after the events. There might have been a person behind the myth, but we know nothing about him.


Yes they do, they require faith in logic.


Cullion, the problem with this line of argument is that it stretches the definition of "faith" so far that the term becomes meaningless. Faith is defined as the conviction that something is true for which there is no evidence. You'll often hear this type of argument from the anti-science crowd whether they believe in talking snakes or in homeopathic magic water. Here's the thing about science; it works. Even if you don't understand electricity and quantum physics we have computers which are the result of decades of scientific discovery. If we operate on axioms that the universe is follows mutable laws then we can get things done. You can't use the concept of a magical being that controls the universe to make accurate predictions, or to do anything for that matter.

HappyOldGuy
10th April 09, 10:23 AM
What's your take on the writings of Josephus, Pliny and Tacitus regarding Jesus?
Cullion. If you beg, I'll explain why before I pull the trigger.

Virus STFU.

Edit: Okay Cullion, I just read your comment on the hotties thread and "tickler" saved your life.

But Virus, shut. the. fuck. up.

FickleFingerOfFate
10th April 09, 10:25 AM
God, what a bunch of dorks.


Now if you excuse me, I'm off to pray to Odin.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/FickleFingerOfFate/flyingspaghettimonster-747557.jpg

Aphid Jones
10th April 09, 10:32 AM
Virus, why do you think it is that even prominent antitheists like Richard Dawkins don't buy into that particular conspiracy theory?

Cullion
10th April 09, 10:34 AM
Josephus: Testimonium Flavianum is regarded as an Christian interpolation.

By whom? Everybody? No.



Pliny: in 111-113 CE he found some Christians and wrote a letter asking what to do with them. All that shows is that there were Christians in the second century.

I guess they must have just spontaneously appeared then.



Tacitus: From 115 CE "Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius." Is this the story of what happened or did he have access to execution orders or some other document? He doesn't say, and he gets Pilate's title wrong.

How do you know his title was wrong?



So, vague accounts from decades after the events. There might have been a person behind the myth, but we know nothing about him.

Yes we do, we have accounts written by people who met him.




Cullion, the problem with this line of argument is that it stretches the definition of "faith" so far that the term becomes meaningless. Faith is defined as the conviction that something is true for which there is no evidence.

What's the evidence that logic is true?



You'll often hear this type of argument from the anti-science crowd whether they believe in talking snakes or in homeopathic magic water. Here's the thing about science; it works.

Science isn't something that works or doesn't work. Science is the empirical method. It rests on faith in the empirical method.



Even if you don't understand electricity and quantum physics we have computers which are the result of decades of scientific discovery. If we operate on axioms that the universe is follows mutable laws then we can get things done. You can't use the concept of a magical being that controls the universe to make accurate predictions, or to do anything for that matter.

Then how do you explain the book of Isiah?

Cullion
10th April 09, 10:35 AM
I hate to break it to you Virus, but you're actually kind of a religious zealot yourself.

You certainly have the same humourless joy in repetition of your creed.

Aphid Jones
10th April 09, 10:43 AM
We have done this so many times... Please. Not again. I don't think the internet can take it.

Cullion
10th April 09, 10:52 AM
We keep trying to tell Virus politely to stop. That his opinion on religion is no better informed, nor more entertaining, than his dry copypasta about martial arts.

But he just won't fucking stop.

Virus
10th April 09, 11:26 AM
Virus, why do you think it is that even prominent antitheists like Richard Dawkins don't buy into that particular conspiracy theory?

What conspiracy theory?


I guess they must have just spontaneously appeared then.

It's not necessary that there be a real person behind the story for there to be believers in the story.



How do you know his title was wrong?


I don't know if it was wrong. Some historians argue Pilate wasn't a procurator.


Yes we do, we have accounts written by people who met him.


Name them.



What's the evidence that logic is true?

It works.


Science isn't something that works or doesn't work.

Yes it is. And it does work. The computer you are using is the result.



Science is the empirical method. It rests on faith in the empirical method.

It's not faith because it works.


Then how do you explain the book of Isiah?

First tell me what needs to be explained.


I hate to break it to you Virus, but you're actually kind of a religious zealot yourself.

No. Religious people believe in gods.


We keep trying to tell Virus politely to stop.

Yet you keep reading and posting.

Zendetta
10th April 09, 11:42 AM
Religious people believe in gods.

Wrong. Not all religious people belief in god(s).

MrBadGuy
10th April 09, 12:16 PM
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/FickleFingerOfFate/flyingspaghettimonster-747557.jpg

I pray Thor caves your head in quickly, such that you don't feel the pain.

Then again, hammer time is hammer time.

Cullion
10th April 09, 12:26 PM
Virus, why are you so proud of your ignorance ?

Robot Jesus
10th April 09, 12:40 PM
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8664/1236470004249.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6157/1236470584290.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3184/1236470743532.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9452/1236470799678.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9697/1236470843347.jpg
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/4279/1236470889371.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1017/1236470951977.jpg
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/3189/1236470987566.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9153/1236535274602.jpg

Cullion
10th April 09, 12:54 PM
Some people would read that comic, snigger and think to themselves, all smug like, that God couldn't be real because they could never pray to a redneck who hated fags.

I didn't. I keep the faith.

Virus
10th April 09, 01:10 PM
Cullion, I'm interested in the names of these documents that were written by people who met Jesus.

kracker
10th April 09, 01:11 PM
Cullion, the problem with this line of argument is that it stretches the definition of "faith" so far that the term becomes meaningless. Faith is defined as the conviction that something is true for which there is no evidence. You'll often hear this type of argument from the anti-science crowd whether they believe in talking snakes or in homeopathic magic water. Here's the thing about science; it works. Even if you don't understand electricity and quantum physics we have computers which are the result of decades of scientific discovery. If we operate on axioms that the universe is follows mutable laws then we can get things done. You can't use the concept of a magical being that controls the universe to make accurate predictions, or to do anything for that matter.

I agree that science works and hence is in no way based on faith. However, you are studying neurobiology so I'm sure you have an idea how retardedly complex the human brain is as an organ. It clearly works. Science can't make a human brain. How do you think it came to be?

OZZ
10th April 09, 01:25 PM
Spirituality and Religiosity are not one and the same, Virus.
Organized religion is what sucks..not Jesus. The guy was turned into a martyr, he was not the 'son of god'. He was also born in Nazereth, not Bethlehem.
That's my sermon/history lesson for the holiday.
Happy Easter - for all you heathens who don't celebrate the Orthodox Easter NEXT weekend.
I married a Greek, so what can you do?

OZZ
10th April 09, 01:25 PM
Cullion, I'm interested in the names of these documents that were written by people who met Jesus.

Me too.

Cullion
10th April 09, 01:32 PM
Cullion, I'm interested in the names of these documents that were written by people who met Jesus.

Gospel of Mark probably was. What exactly are you trying to convince us of that we didn't already know ?

Virus
10th April 09, 01:32 PM
Science can't make a human brain. How do you think it came to be?

Evolution and natural selection over millions of years.

FickleFingerOfFate
10th April 09, 01:35 PM
Evolution and natural selection over millions of years.


So how do you explain people like Kracker (post #22 above)?

Cullion
10th April 09, 01:36 PM
Virus, you really, really haven't studied philosophy enough. Something 'working' does not constitute a proof. If I were to say 'the sky god will make the sun rise tomorrow', and then the sun rose, would that constitute a proof of the sky god's existence ?

No.

So in summary:

Meh, whatever, you're treading a weird line between preaching to the converted and boring the shit out of everybody whilst making rudimentary historical, theological and philosophical errors. Your attempt at being 'the sociocide atheist' is about as convincing and enlightening as your attempt to become 'the bullshido grappler' (shortly after your conversion to BJJ on the road to damascus after prior study of ninjitsu). Please, spare us the repetition and splenetics.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it turns out you used to be religious, probably a member of something a bit wacky like the Jehova's Witnesses.

Robot Jesus
10th April 09, 01:41 PM
can't we all agree to spend today in study of he who conqured death? I by that i mean why dont we all watch highlander?

Quikfeet509
10th April 09, 02:06 PM
Worst rebuttal ever.

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 02:29 PM
Gospel of Mark probably was.

I've never heard anyone suggest that Mark met Jesus. From what I've seen the consensus of opinion is that Mark wrote down what he'd heard Peter preach - possibly after Peter had died.

http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=5282

Cullion
10th April 09, 02:32 PM
Who said Mark met Jesus or that Mark wrote that Gospel ?

I think you're confused.

kracker
10th April 09, 02:36 PM
Evolution and natural selection over millions of years.

What is your point? I'm not a creationist.

Cullion
10th April 09, 02:37 PM
He doesn't have a point beyond 'raargh! rationalism explains everything and it's awesome!!!111!'

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 02:38 PM
Who said Mark met Jesus or that Mark wrote that Gospel ?

I think you're confused.

Err... the Catholic Church says Mark wrote the Gospel of Mark.

And yes I am confused - please enlighten me.

Cullion
10th April 09, 02:43 PM
The Catholic Church also thinks that Jesus rose from the dead after being crucified. Why are you suddenly treating them as a historical resource ?

Are you trying to make a counterpoint somehow? Is a Christian establishment supposed to be 'the other sports team' to Virus' clumsy fanatical rationalism with no room between for historical examination?

That's an absurd point.

FickleFingerOfFate
10th April 09, 02:44 PM
During the Middle ages,

the Catholic Church told people to obey God's law and the Church's rules,
or they would go to Hell.

Unless you were rich enough to buy an "Indulgence" from the Church,
in which case, no problemo.

So, I tend to be a bit leery of what the Church says.



Edit: Cullion beat me to it.

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 02:48 PM
The Catholic Church also thinks that Jesus rose from the dead after being crucified. Why are you suddenly treating them as a historical resource ?

Are you trying to make a counterpoint somehow? Is a Christian establishment supposed to be 'the other sports team' to Virus' clumsy fanatical rationalism with no room between for historical examination?

That's an absurd point.

You failed to enlighten me, please feel free to end my obvious confusion.

Cullion
10th April 09, 02:51 PM
The Gospel of Mark is written in the form of an eyewitness account. It was likely written by somebody who actually met Jesus, but then appears to have gotten carried away with symbolism and wrote a science fictional account of how awesome he thought his 'saviour' was.

The whole 'Jesus never existed' schtick is a pretty stupid way of attacking the foundation of Christianity. His life is as widely and as consistently documented as anything else that is alleged to have occurred before about 200 years ago.

If you haven't figured it out yet, Virus is angry about having been succesfully trolled by religion in his childhood, just like he's angry about having been taken in by Ninjitsu.

HappyOldGuy
10th April 09, 02:52 PM
The catholic (and orthodox) churches are 'rule of thumb' better sources for biblical studies because their legitimacy is independent of the bible. They wrote the thing and they know and admit it. It's when you get to silly protty types who claim their sole legitimacy based on specific phrases in the bible that you really get into trouble. Since they can't just fall back on, "we're gods church and we say so" when they run into historical inconsistencies.

But rules of thumb just that.

Excuses to smack your bitch up.

20tWDFxQq5A

FickleFingerOfFate
10th April 09, 02:53 PM
You failed to enlighten me, please feel free to end my obvious confusion.


History is written by the victors (No I don't mean the University of Michigan),
and, what evolved into Catholic Church had a corner on the Christianity market during its formative years.

Therefore, the facts they give you are the facts that they want you to have, and the ones that suit them best.

Don't forget, they edited the original Bible, and had a book burning party that would have made any censor proud (see; Gnostic Gospels, Dead Sea Scrolls).

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 03:01 PM
The Gospel of Mark is written in the form of an eyewitness account. It was likely written by somebody who actually met Jesus,

H.G. Wells - War of the Worlds was written in the form of an eyewitness account too.

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 03:02 PM
History is written by the victors (No I don't mean the University of Michigan),
and, what evolved into Catholic Church had a corner on the Christianity market during its formative years.

Therefore, the facts they give you are the facts that they want you to have, and the ones that suit them best.

Don't forget, they edited the original Bible, and had a book burning party that would have made any censor proud (see; Gnostic Gospels, Dead Sea Scrolls).

I'm just not sure what they had to gain from saying the Gospel of Mark was written by someone who hadn't met Jesus.

FickleFingerOfFate
10th April 09, 03:16 PM
I'm just not sure what they had to gain from saying the Gospel of Mark was written by someone who hadn't met Jesus.


Ask them,

I wasn't there.

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 03:22 PM
Ask them,

I wasn't there.

It may be difficult to find someone who was there, even with the power of the interwebz on my side.

FickleFingerOfFate
10th April 09, 03:29 PM
It may be difficult to find someone who was there, even with the power of the interwebz on my side.


Seance?

Aphid Jones
10th April 09, 03:39 PM
Don't forget, they edited the original Bible, and had a book burning party that would have made any censor proud (see; Gnostic Gospels, Dead Sea Scrolls).
Not all the material in the Dead Sea Scrolls wasn't featured, because some of it was mainstream judaic texts from the Tanakh. A lot of it is Essene Sect midrash and prophecy text from that particular community, and wasn't kept out of "the bible" for any nefarious reason.

Aphid Jones
10th April 09, 03:41 PM
I don't know if it was wrong. Some historians argue Pilate wasn't a procurator.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_Stone

Virus
10th April 09, 03:46 PM
What is your point? I'm not a creationist.

You asked where the human brain came from.

Odacon
10th April 09, 03:50 PM
You guys, you we shouldn't be arguing, this is a time to celebrate the life of man, a man born of a union between a woman and god, a man who's miraculous deed were know far and wide, and still inspire today, a man who was betrayed and died but was resurrected to his fathers side and thus became divine himself. Yes friends, join with me and celebrate the life of....






















!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HERAKLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/a/a2/Hercules.jpg

Cullion
10th April 09, 03:53 PM
I'm just not sure what they had to gain from saying the Gospel of Mark was written by someone who hadn't met Jesus.

Because Peter was the founder of the Catholic Church. The first bishop of Rome.

You knew this, right?

Cullion
10th April 09, 03:55 PM
H.G. Wells - War of the Worlds was written in the form of an eyewitness account too.

Yes, but that was admitted by the author to be a work of fiction. It behoves you to disprove the account.

kracker
10th April 09, 03:56 PM
You asked where the human brain came from.

Doesn't it seem amazing or miraculous how such an immensely complex organ developed out of something so simple and fragile? Does it not point to an intelligent force driving the evolutionary process?

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 03:56 PM
Because Peter was the founder of the Catholic Church. The first bishop of Rome.

You knew this, right?

Yes, and?

FickleFingerOfFate
10th April 09, 04:00 PM
Doesn't it seem amazing or miraculous how such an immensely complex organ developed out of something so simple and fragile? Does it not point to an intelligent force driving the evolutionary process?



Not in your case...







In your case the miracle is how you survive without one.

Cullion
10th April 09, 04:02 PM
Yes, and?

So surely you can see why the Catholic church might want to paint him as the author of the gospel most christians agree upon as the most direct first-hand account of the life of Christ.

Aphid Jones
10th April 09, 04:13 PM
Doesn't it seem amazing or miraculous how such an immensely complex organ developed out of something so simple and fragile? Does it not point to an intelligent force driving the evolutionary process?
That sounds awfully like irreducible complexity, kracker. I don't think we should get into an ID debate right now, because you can't win and it will be used as a strawman against you.

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 04:16 PM
So surely you can see why the Catholic church might want to paint him as the author of the gospel most christians agree upon as the most direct first-hand account of the life of Christ.

So why didn't they just call it the Gospel of Peter? Given it was meant to be Peter's account anyway - Mark was after all just the guy who wrote down what Peter said.

Cullion
10th April 09, 04:20 PM
Because just editing the text would've caused schism at a time when they were trying to unify the disparate Christian groups across Europe and the middle east. People would've said 'hey, you've changed the text!'

Sophistry based on scholastic arguments about who really inspired something is another matter.

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 04:21 PM
Yes, but that was admitted by the author to be a work of fiction. It behoves you to disprove the account.

I don't think such a discussion would be very fruitful, but just for fun this makes an interesting read:

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mark.html

Kiko
10th April 09, 04:27 PM
I've abstained from eating meat today. I should have probably abstained from reading most of this thread, too.

Then again, everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs, right?

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 04:27 PM
Because just editing the text would've caused schism at a time when they were trying to unify the disparate Christian groups across Europe and the middle east. People would've said 'hey, you've changed the text!'

Sophistry based on scholastic arguments about who really inspired something is another matter.

You're kidding right?

Cullion
10th April 09, 04:29 PM
No.

Cullion
10th April 09, 04:29 PM
I've abstained from eating meat today. I should have probably abstained from reading most of this thread, too.

Then again, everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs, right?

Not if Virus is elected president.

Virus
10th April 09, 04:37 PM
Doesn't it seem amazing or miraculous how such an immensely complex organ developed out of something so simple and fragile? Does it not point to an intelligent force driving the evolutionary process?

Amazing, yes. Miraculous, no. You only need three things; reproduction, mutation and selection pressures. That's what evolution is. You don't need magic to explain it. A simple precursor brain, such as a bundle of neurons evolved by mutations that are inherited over subsequent generations for millions of years. The mutations that benefited survival were passed on. We can observe this in the lab with bacteria and viruses. We're engaged in an arms race with microorganisms because of this. Is god directing bacteria to break down antibiotics?

It seems miraculous because we are looking at the result after 3.8 billion years of gradual, incremental change. That's a really long time.

The second problem with teleological arguments is that they end in special pleading. If complex things require a creator then god, who is more complex than a human brain, must be created and so on in an infinite regress.

Craigypooh
10th April 09, 04:38 PM
So the church had an account of Jesus' life, written by someone who had met Jesus, but they then decided that it would be better to tell everyone that it was based on Peter's preachings because he was the first Pope?

HappyOldGuy
10th April 09, 04:39 PM
Cullion, I would enjoy having this discussion with you. because I think I can convince you that the customary account of authorship predates the controversay that makes you suspect it.

But I'm not interested unless Virus is taken up to heaven first. Till then.

Peaches are safe to eat during lent.

27fUjx8SyiM

Virus
10th April 09, 04:47 PM
Not if Virus is elected president.

You know this day and age, the people that don't believe others are entitled to their beliefs are themselves the most spiritual movement on the planet.

taijiamn
10th April 09, 04:54 PM
You guys, you we shouldn't be arguing, this is a time to celebrate the life of man, a man born of a union between a woman and god, a man who's miraculous deed were know far and wide, and still inspire today, a man who was betrayed and died but was resurrected to his fathers side and thus became divine himself. Yes friends, join with me and celebrate the life of....

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HERAKLES!!!!!

Don't forget, he went totally ape shit and killed his wife and children first!

Cullion
10th April 09, 05:02 PM
I just can't read any of your posts without fantasizing about your final, spectacular conversion to Catholicism, Virus.

Please, talk to us about something else. Everybody here of note already gets what you are trying, with massive repetition, to say. You love reason and the natural sciences, that's great.

But you're trying to use the techniques you've learned to attack a problem that they simply aren't applicable to, in an angry and repetitive way.

That's why you seem like a mirror image of a religious fundamentalist. Rise above it, please.

Virus
10th April 09, 05:29 PM
Who's angry?

Cullion
10th April 09, 05:32 PM
you. you're angry.

mrm1775
10th April 09, 06:39 PM
Virus, we get the point: you're an atheist, which is just fine and dandy if that's what you're into. But every holier-than-thou thread you make reminds me of the worst of the evangelical televangelists, minus the constant requests for your money.

Seriously, who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

I've abstained from eating meat today. I should have probably abstained from reading most of this thread, too.

Then again, everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs, right?Damn. I forgot and had eggs this morning.

Kiko
10th April 09, 06:42 PM
You know this day and age, the people that don't believe others are entitled to their beliefs are themselves the most spiritual movement on the planet.

I think I understand what you think you're saying, but for someone who claims to be logical, your communication skills really stink.

I'll pray for you!

Kiko
10th April 09, 06:45 PM
Damn. I forgot and had eggs this morning.

I don't think eggs count.

Catholics aren't the same as vegans or vegetarians.

Ironic that fish is more of a luxury than meat these days. Guess it wasn't back in the middle ages, eh?

Kiko
10th April 09, 06:46 PM
I just can't read any of your posts without fantasizing about your final, spectacular conversion to Catholicism, Virus.

Why not go all the way and let the Fundies have him? They're more his style.

Cullion
10th April 09, 06:57 PM
I have a suspicion he's already been there, and that's where the anger comes from.

Kiko
10th April 09, 06:58 PM
I forgive him. Just keep him over there, oke?

Cullion
10th April 09, 07:08 PM
Ironic that fish is more of a luxury than meat these days. Guess it wasn't back in the middle ages, eh?

In mediaeval England wild fresh salmon and shellfish like mussels, lobster, oysters and prawns used to be considered 'peasant' food because they were so common and easy to come by. Some lord actually passed a law against serving salmon on holy feast days because he was so bored of eating it.

The nobility used to eat wild game caught from forests they banned everybody else from hunting or trapping in (unless the lord rewarded them with hunting rights) and fresh vegetables.

Now the prices are totally reversed for some reason and things like venison are cheaper by pound than any seafood.

I think it's a sign we've been over-fishing for a few centuries. Either that or fishermen are an awful lot more regulated and economically burdened with govt. BS than farmers are.

Edit: I suppose it's also possible that land-farming has gotten an awful lot more technically sophisticated and industralised whereas commercial fishing still basically relies on dudes on a boat risking their necks in shitty weather.

AAAhmed46
10th April 09, 08:55 PM
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8664/1236470004249.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6157/1236470584290.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3184/1236470743532.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9452/1236470799678.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9697/1236470843347.jpg
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/4279/1236470889371.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1017/1236470951977.jpg
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/3189/1236470987566.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9153/1236535274602.jpg

That was pretty cool though.

Steve
10th April 09, 09:20 PM
Damn it, Ahmed! Don't fucking quote shit that breaks the page, once was enough!

And if you have to do it, use spoiler tags!

Virus
11th April 09, 05:05 AM
I read the gospel of Mark today.

Craigypooh
11th April 09, 07:36 AM
What did you think, a good read? Do you think he met Jesus?

Virus
11th April 09, 09:24 AM
I thought it was a terrible read. All the characters are one dimensional, there are continuity gaps, the pacing is off, there's no sense of time, the first half is repetitive, it's just Jesus walking along and seeing a sick guy, then he casts the evil spirits out of him and cures him. Repeat. All of a sudden he's arrested, tried and condemned to death and some women find an empty tomb and assume he must be alive again.

And right at the start it mentions all his disciples and when it gets to Judas it points out that he betrays Jesus. Way to give away the plot.

Being serious for a moment, there's really nothing you can take from the story about a real historical person.

Cullion
11th April 09, 10:41 AM
What's your definition of a 'real historical person' ?

Virus
11th April 09, 10:59 AM
People that exist in history as opposed to not existing. There's a secondary level after that where real people are a basis or inspiration for fictional characters. There may well have been a person, or people who were the inspiration. But we don't really know anything about these hypothetical characters.

This Easter, people in the Philippines are nailing themselves to crosses and flogging themselves in fits of religious insanity devoted to this ugly ideology:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1168998/Gory-scenes-Filipino-Catholic-devotees-nailed-cross-brutal-Good-Friday-ritual.html

Cullion, since you asked; I've never been religious. When I was growing up we never discussed religion, it was a non-issue.

Aphid Jones
11th April 09, 11:30 AM
On April 18, people in Canada will be getting into cages to brutally strike, throw and crush each other in fits of violent insanity, all devoted to this ugly ideology:

http://www.ufc.com/

Doritosaurus Chex
11th April 09, 12:08 PM
This Easter, people in the Philippines are nailing themselves to crosses and flogging themselves in fits of religious insanity devoted to this ugly ideology:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1168998/Gory-scenes-Filipino-Catholic-devotees-nailed-cross-brutal-Good-Friday-ritual.html


That's been happening every Easter. I guess they made their choice between nailing themselves to crosses or wasting food by painting eggs and hide them from children.

SFGOON
11th April 09, 03:52 PM
I can say with a fair degree of certainty that Virus has 1. an over-active prefrontal lobe and 2. dysfunctional temporal lobes. This causes his general cantankerousness and predisposition to contradict. Unfortunately, the injured temporal lobes make him unable to intuitively process complex phenomena. He is unable to identify that which he cannot articulate, nor does he understand that unlike himself, most people have intuitive faculties which shortcut the Cartesian cognitive processes yet don't readily lend themselves to verbal description.

Simply put, he is unable to see the big picture and needs things to be communicated in an explicit manner before he is capable of grasping them. As many of you have pointed out, he is stupid despite his perspicacity.

Robot Jesus
11th April 09, 03:57 PM
throughout jr high and high school I did little else than watch highlander. I'm consitering getting a bracelet with "WWMD" written on it.

DAYoung
11th April 09, 06:39 PM
DAYoung saves Easter (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25317713-5000117,00.html).

HappyOldGuy
11th April 09, 06:57 PM
If you had these (http://candyaddict.com/blog/2008/03/10/easter-candy-review-reeses-peanut-butter-egg/) in aussiestan, you wouldn't need any other god.

Virus
11th April 09, 07:00 PM
That was a really nice article DAYong.

Tell me about this big picture SFgoon.

DAYoung
11th April 09, 07:12 PM
If you had these (http://candyaddict.com/blog/2008/03/10/easter-candy-review-reeses-peanut-butter-egg/) in aussiestan, you wouldn't need any other god.

That is SO wrong.

It's blasphemy against confectionary.

DAYoung
11th April 09, 07:13 PM
That was a really nice article DAYoung.

DAYoung: putting the 'u' back in me.

Thank you. I was concerned that it might be a little patronising, but it's really quite well-meaning.

Steve
11th April 09, 07:23 PM
That is SO wrong.

It's blasphemy against confectionary.

Hey, man. My mom gives me either some Reese’s Peanut Butter eggs or rabbits for Easter nearly every year.

You saying my little ol' mum is doing something wrong??

Do we need to step outside of the intertubez???

(nice article, btw)

SFGOON
11th April 09, 07:33 PM
Tell me about this big picture SFgoon.

You wouldn't understand. Remember? No functional temporal lobe!

It would be like teaching a parrot to play chess. While not outside the realm of possibility, the effort to reward ratio is extremely unfavorable.

DAYoung
11th April 09, 07:37 PM
Hey, man. My mom gives me either some Reese’s Peanut Butter eggs or rabbits for Easter nearly every year.

You saying my little ol' mum is doing something wrong??

Do we need to step outside of the intertubez???

(nice article, btw)

yes i wil fite u rite now

fssk fssk

fssk fssk

I just think it's very American of you to like this crap. You and HoG.

(By the way, Americanness is a cultural thang, baby. You can live in the USA and be English.)

HappyOldGuy
11th April 09, 07:38 PM
DAYoung: putting the 'u' back in me.

Thank you. I was concerned that it might be a little patronising, but it's really quite well-meaning.
Not patronizing at all. I'm also enjoying distraction.

However disrespecting reeses peanut butter eggs is fatwa worthy. They really are a nearly perfect candy. The finest rendition of the peanut butter cup genus.

They are our secret weapon in the culture wars. If world opinion of the United States ever reaches a truly low ebb, we will open up the export market and retake our rightful cultural dominance one chewy salty sweet rich buttery mouthful at a time.

SFGOON
11th April 09, 07:44 PM
When it comes down to it, Easter is not, nor has it ever been, about Jesus.

It's about the weather getting warmer, the sun being out longer, the uggs coming off and the swimsuits going on.

That's right folks, it's fuckin' time.

If that's not a reason to celebrate, I don't know what is.

bob
11th April 09, 07:47 PM
When it comes down to it, Easter is not, nor has it ever been, about Jesus.

It's about the weather getting warmer, the sun being out longer, the uggs coming off and the swimsuits going on.

That's right folks, it's fuckin' time.

If that's not a reason to celebrate, I don't know what is.

And this is where Virus will never get it. His neurochemistry is so screwed up he thinks it's getting cooler and the days are getting shorter.

SFGOON
11th April 09, 07:48 PM
That's right, you Aussies have winter for your summer, ergo fall for your spring.

Here's what you do.

Easter? Dress up in costumes and go trick-or treating.

Christmas? Bar-B-Ques and fireworks!

Haloween? Hide eggs and get together with your mother in law.

July 4th? Great time for a pine tree and presents.

Call them what you like.

This will put the world back in order.

There's a reason why we celebrate how we celebrate when we celebrate it.

Virus
11th April 09, 07:49 PM
You wouldn't understand. Remember? No functional temporal lobe!


As much as I trust your skills in neurological diagnosis, I'd like to hear it all the same.

SFGOON
11th April 09, 08:00 PM
Okay. We'll do this in increments. Let's start with the ant.

Ants, though they are indeed separate and individual organisms, combine together and form a single, cohesive unit called an "anthill."

Likewise, when there are many, many trees growing within close proximity to one another, the trees combine forces to form what could be construed as a single cohesive unit called a "forest."

Do you follow me so far?

Robot Jesus
11th April 09, 08:23 PM
where does yeast and sea salt fit in?

Virus
11th April 09, 08:23 PM
Very clever. Are you going to talk about the transcendent truth you alluded to earlier or not?

SFGOON
11th April 09, 08:26 PM
I'll take your silence as an affirmation of your comprehension. Now, suppose you had one ant, and I were to give you another. What then? Why you'd have two ants, correct?

Likewise, were you to have a tree in your yard, and I, the generous chap, planted another in your yard, that'd be TWO trees in your yard! Follow?

I assume yes.

Now, let's take it to the next level. Say you have a forest in your yard. I come along again and plant a second forest. What do you have now?

Still just a SINGLE forest? How can this be?!

Virus, with a few exceptions, the human brain cannot count higher than about 12. You may think you can, but in reality this is just a trick we have developed to overcome our cognitive deficiencies. So, despite my planting a forest, when Virus goes to look at it, all he sees is the same forest he saw the last time, and he is not impressed despite GOON's heroic effort.

Your brain cannot tell the difference between, 1832 and 3664 trees. (In fact, I had to use a memory trick called "mathematics" to ascertain that 3664 was twice the value of 1832. My brain did not automatically know.) Follow so far?

SFGOON
11th April 09, 08:34 PM
Very clever. Are you going to talk about the transcendent truth you alluded to earlier or not?

Please, be patient. I cannot convey anything "transcendent" until I have shattered the world view you have now.

The understanding you have right now is on the property where transcendence must be placed. No ground can be broken until a demolition has occurred. Human understanding is a zero-sum game.

DAYoung
11th April 09, 08:44 PM
This is fascinating, and I want to watch.

Carry on, SFGoon.

Virus
11th April 09, 08:48 PM
Just to save a bit of time, just let me know if it's anything to do with either of the following:

a) It's not about something arrived at with reason or empiricism, it's about the feeling. Or something gay like that.

b) It doesn't matter if it's true or not. It makes you feel good.

If not, carry on.

DAYoung
11th April 09, 08:49 PM
Not patronizing at all. I'm also enjoying distraction.

However disrespecting reeses peanut butter eggs is fatwa worthy. They really are a nearly perfect candy. The finest rendition of the peanut butter cup genus.

They are our secret weapon in the culture wars. If world opinion of the United States ever reaches a truly low ebb, we will open up the export market and retake our rightful cultural dominance one chewy salty sweet rich buttery mouthful at a time.

OK. I'm not an unreasonable man.

Once a week, I allow myself a sweet: piece of cake, ice-cream, chocolate, and so on.

I doubt I'll find the Reese's eggs. But I can get Reese's Pieces. Is it worth me trying them on my dessert day?

Doritosaurus Chex
11th April 09, 09:09 PM
Yes, Reese's Pieces are worth trying. If you allow yourself toppings on your ice-cream, you should load that bad boy up with Reese's Pieces.

SFGOON
11th April 09, 09:17 PM
Just to save a bit of time, just let me know if it's anything to do with either of the following:

a) It's not about something arrived at with reason or empiricism, it's about the feeling. Or something gay like that.

b) It doesn't matter if it's true or not. It makes you feel good.

If not, carry on.

I see you have a lot of experience with morons. I am not one of them.

(As an aside, there's no appreciable difference between "a" and "b.")

Anyway, there comes a point where we are unable to comprehend the dynamics of a thing at a glance. For most people, the number of moving parts where a system becomes unintelligible - at a glance - is 13.

For long-term observations and cognition, the comprehension of a system ends with roughly 250 moving parts. Anything more complicated must be represented by a simplification (usually symbolic representation,) or it is beyond the scope of human intellect. Anything higher than 250 and we are not observing the system, but rather our symbolic representation thereof.

In short, we're all pretty stupid.

So, when you extend human symbol language (mathematics) into the most vast corners of existence, what happens? Why it falls the fuck apart and leads our greatest scholars to daft assumptions.

Assumptions like "Dark Energy" and "Quantum Physics"

You expect me to believe the expansion of the universe suddenly accelerated three or four billion years ago? RIGHT.....

Likewise, quarks travel back in time? SURE....

It not some mysterious force in either case, but rather the failure of our attempt to translate incomprehensibly vast numbers into human-friendly symbols.

Still with me?

Virus
11th April 09, 09:18 PM
DAYoung:

http://www.usafoods.com.au/

DAYoung
11th April 09, 09:20 PM
Yes, Reese's Pieces are worth trying. If you allow yourself toppings on your ice-cream, you should load that bad boy up with Reese's Pieces.

When I have an ice-cream, I rarely buy a tub. Instead, I grab a Magnum Ego - I like to stroll around on a sunny day, eating my treat. (Often we go for ice-cream as a family.)

DAYoung
11th April 09, 09:22 PM
DAYoung:

http://www.usafoods.com.au/

Believe it or not, I bookmarked it just before I posted earlier.

But thank you.

HappyOldGuy
11th April 09, 09:26 PM
Reeses pieces are something entirely different. I'm not gonna say mean stuff about them, but I'm not a fan. The closest thing you will find to the peanut butter eggs is full size peanut butter cups, which look like they are available from viruses link (http://www.usafoods.com.au/p1109/confectionery/reeses-peanut-butter-cups/). The eggs are just an ever so slightly superior version due to a perfected filling/chocolate balance.

mrm1775
11th April 09, 09:28 PM
I doubt I'll find the Reese's eggs...Do try. They may inspire you to have dessert day twice a week.

Please continue, Goon. This is becoming most entertaining.

Virus
11th April 09, 09:30 PM
Still with me?

Of course.

HappyOldGuy
11th April 09, 09:41 PM
That's right folks, it's fuckin' time.

If that's not a reason to celebrate, I don't know what is.
May 1st is the official opening of outdoor fucking season, as memorialized in the famous prayer, "Queen of angels, queen of may, outdoor fucking starts today."

DAYoung
11th April 09, 09:55 PM
Reeses pieces are something entirely different. I'm not gonna say mean stuff about them, but I'm not a fan. The closest thing you will find to the peanut butter eggs is full size peanut butter cups, which look like they are available from viruses link (http://www.usafoods.com.au/p1109/confectionery/reeses-peanut-butter-cups/). The eggs are just an ever so slightly superior version due to a perfected filling/chocolate balance.

I will order them, try a couple and report back.

Virus
11th April 09, 11:33 PM
SFgoon, just throwing this out there to save you time.

Is your idea going somewhere along the lines of "yadda yadda yadda. God is a metaphor for the universe and the unknowable?"

SFGOON
11th April 09, 11:35 PM
Who said anything about God?

Robot Jesus
11th April 09, 11:57 PM
i did, indirectly

SFGOON
12th April 09, 12:09 AM
Well then, you should quit beating around the bush and say exactly what you mean.

You are, after all, pope.

Virus
12th April 09, 01:09 AM
Who said anything about God?

Well you haven't really said anything yet.

DAYoung
12th April 09, 01:12 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Reeses_Peanut_Butter_Cups.jpg/800px-Reeses_Peanut_Butter_Cups.jpg

OK. We were doing some shopping this afternoon, and my wife saw a packet of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

Fortuitous.

I tried them. I'm sorry, but they're horrible. They taste like peanut butter, with added sugar. The chocolate tastes cheap - like reconstituted easter egg.

Compared to a Lindt chocolate egg, or even Cadbury, they're a cloying, unsubtle, greasy-teasting mess.

Yuck.

(I tried, I really did.)

HappyOldGuy
12th April 09, 01:29 AM
I tried them. I'm sorry, but they're horrible. They taste like peanut butter, with added sugar. The chocolate tastes cheap - like reconstituted easter egg.

Compared to a Lindt chocolate egg, or even Cadbury, they're a cloying, unsubtle, greasy-teasting mess.

Yuck.

(I tried, I really did.)

I appreciate that you tried. Big mensch points.

I will instruct the ninjas to make it clean.

theotherserge
12th April 09, 01:43 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Reeses_Peanut_Butter_Cups.jpg/800px-Reeses_Peanut_Butter_Cups.jpg

OK. We were doing some shopping this afternoon, and my wife saw a packet of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

Fortuitous.

I tried them. I'm sorry, but they're horrible. They taste like peanut butter, with added sugar. The chocolate tastes cheap - like reconstituted easter egg.

Compared to a Lindt chocolate egg, or even Cadbury, they're a cloying, unsubtle, greasy-teasting mess.

Yuck.

(I tried, I really did.)
You know what I tried? Vegimite. srsly, that chased by a can of Fosters is like the Down Under=of a Pecan Log with a can of Old Miluakee.

Steve
12th April 09, 02:45 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Reeses_Peanut_Butter_Cups.jpg/800px-Reeses_Peanut_Butter_Cups.jpg

OK. We were doing some shopping this afternoon, and my wife saw a packet of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

Fortuitous.

I tried them. I'm sorry, but they're horrible. They taste like peanut butter, with added sugar. The chocolate tastes cheap - like reconstituted easter egg.

Compared to a Lindt chocolate egg, or even Cadbury, they're a cloying, unsubtle, greasy-teasting mess.

Yuck.

(I tried, I really did.)

I'm sure there is a type that you would like (http://www.typetive.com/candyblog/item/reeses_line/).

Seriously, America has the worst sweets ever. I'm not a fan of candy at all (have a piece about twice a year, Easter and Christmas), but I am more than happy to have that candy be a peanut and chocolate based product when I do indulge.

Yes, you guys have Cadbury chocolate bars which are far superior to our Hershey's, but I still wouldn't eat it on a weekly basis (or any other candy).

DAYoung
12th April 09, 03:09 AM
a Pecan Log with a can of Old Miluakee.

I...

Wait.

No, I really don't know what you're talking about.

DAYoung
12th April 09, 03:10 AM
I'm sure there is a type that you would like (http://www.typetive.com/candyblog/item/reeses_line/).

Seriously, America has the worst sweets ever. I'm not a fan of candy at all (have a piece about twice a year, Easter and Christmas), but I am more than happy to have that candy be a peanut and chocolate based product when I do indulge.

Yes, you guys have Cadbury chocolate bars which are far superior to our Hershey's, but I still wouldn't eat it on a weekly basis (or any other candy).

Good on you. I try to limit my sweets, but I do have a sweet tooth.

But mostly I crave meat. I love it. (Ten years of being a vegan probably left me drained.)

dus america hav a star treck flavered sweet?

DAYoung
12th April 09, 03:12 AM
I appreciate that you tried. Big mensch points.

I will instruct the ninjas to make it clean.

You want the ninjas to make my big mensch clean?

bob
12th April 09, 03:57 AM
Good on you. I try to limit my sweets, but I do have a sweet tooth.

But mostly I crave meat. I love it. (Ten years of being a vegan probably left me drained.)

dus america hav a star treck flavered sweet?

In Las Vegas they have a Star Trek themed bar and restaurant, complete with Klingon barmaids and Ferengi waiters. We paid $20 for a Warp Core cocktail which turned out to be a huge, smoking blue concoction which nearly put me under the table on its own. I wish I could report on the Star Trek themed meals we had but I must have been too smashed to remember them.

Steve
12th April 09, 04:01 AM
You didn't have a Romulan Ale? You, sir, disappoint me.

bob
12th April 09, 04:03 AM
It's possible I did. I don't remember much after the first few cocktails.

DAYoung
12th April 09, 04:05 AM
In Las Vegas they have a Star Trek themed bar and restaurant, complete with Klingon barmaids and Ferengi waiters. We paid $20 for a Warp Core cocktail which turned out to be a huge, smoking blue concoction which nearly put me under the table on its own. I wish I could report on the Star Trek themed meals we had but I must have been too smashed to remember them.

It's so tacky.

So very tacky.

And yet: I'd do it.

(I'm hoping to review the new Trek film. Fingers crossed.)

Cullion
12th April 09, 04:08 AM
People that exist in history as opposed to not existing.

That's not a definition, that's a rewording of what you've already said.

How do you decide whether somebody exists in history or not?

mrm1775
12th April 09, 04:51 AM
I'm sure there is a type that you would like (http://www.typetive.com/candyblog/item/reeses_line/).I do actually like the white chocolate ones, but they still don't compare to the original, nor does the original quite compare to the egg.

The Big Cup comes closest to the egg's proportions, but its just not the same. There's something special about the peanut butter egg. I can't quite put my finger on it.

DAY, you actually may be a victim of geography on this one. Peanut butter cups degrade rapidly with age. It just may have no longer been fresh by the time it arrived Down Under.

Edit: But enough of that. Back to the intellectual beat-down of our friend Virus.

mrm1775
12th April 09, 04:55 AM
You didn't have a Romulan Ale? You, sir, disappoint me.
My dad had one. He said it was actually quite good.

Meok
12th April 09, 04:57 AM
It not some mysterious force in either case, but rather the failure of our attempt to translate incomprehensibly vast numbers into human-friendly symbols.

Still with me?

Large amounts of data can be reduced into simpler rules, as long as there is some kind of structure to the data. Random data you've no hope. The relationship between inductance, voltage and resistance on the other hand has structure, which can be represented more simply in rules such as Ohm's law. So simplification is not futile where there is structure.

The simpler an accurate (or fairly accurate) representation of a large amount of data the more accurate that representation is likely to be on new data. Or in other word's Occam's razor. To take it to the other extreme having a representation the size of the data, such as the data itself, can be useless. I'd rather have a simple rule that predicts well the migration of birds rather than just data of every bird's position every year without any underlying simpler understanding, when trying to predict the migration of birds. So simplification can be good too.

That said there are ways to measure the success of such a simplification. Test the rules. So simplification can be checked.

DAYoung
12th April 09, 04:59 AM
DAY, you actually may be a victim of geography on this one. Peanut butter cups degrade rapidly with age. It just may have no longer been fresh by the time it arrived Down Under.

Wait.

You mean I didn't have T3h Re4l Reese's Peanut Butter Cups?

What are they, Wing Choc?

DAYoung
12th April 09, 05:25 AM
HELP DAYOUNG WITH HIS PROFOUND PHILOSOPHICAL DILEMMA

Should I purchase Star Trek cufflinks? And if so, should I go for enamel (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Star-Trek-Command-Executive-Cufflink-Enamel-Coating-pin_W0QQitemZ360141387747QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item360141387747&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177) (US$23/AU$33) or stirling silver (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/STAR-TREK-COMMAND-CUFFLINKS-STERLING-SILVER_W0QQitemZ270368493530QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item270368493530&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177) (US$45/AU$63)?

The sterling silver are just a bit too pricey, but I don't know if I can wear the enamel.

And before you say it: even tacky TV-themed cufflinks can have genuine aesthetic appeal (or should have.)

Over to you, brains trust.

Cullion
12th April 09, 06:07 AM
I think the enamel looks a little classier, but it depends what you're going to be wearing it with.

http://www.jeffwofford.com/images/smokingjacket.jpg

I can see this look working for you.

DAYoung
12th April 09, 06:29 AM
Honestly, I'm a casual sort of chap: boots, jeans, a nice shirt.

I enjoy a fine suit, but mostly I'm in denim and cotton.

I have many blue shirts, but I recently bought a Harrold's striped dress shirt, with blue, white and salmon pins. (Much better than it sounds.)

DAYoung
12th April 09, 06:35 AM
From my wife:

1. There is so much GEEK packed into this, it's incredible: a someone asking an internet forum which Star Trek cufflinks he should buy on eBay.

2. No-one who recommends Reese's peanut butter cups can be trusted with aesthetic judgement. Do not listen to them.

3. You are all on the FAIL boat. (This is my translation of my wife's tone.)

4. Having said all this, do ask your interwebz people about the cufflinks. No-one else will tell you.

bob
12th April 09, 06:39 AM
F

3. You are all on the FAIL boat. (This is my translation of my wife's tone.)



How does your wife respond to the allegation that per capita sales of your book are exponentially greater amongst sociocide posters? Is this an oblique commentary on your literary prowess?

DAYoung
12th April 09, 06:41 AM
How does your wife respond to the allegation that per capita sales of your book are exponentially greater amongst sociocide posters? Is this an oblique commentary on your literary prowess?

I think perhaps she's suggesting that I am, in fact, aboard the FAIL boat with you.

Hence, old boy, you are my ideal readers.

Kiko
12th April 09, 06:50 AM
Just don't wear those links with a RED shirt, oke?

Reese's PBC are only for that salt/sweet kind of craving. Real chocolate is a whole other deal - gimme truffles and real rich dark chocolate any day.

Silver would be classier, but I figured you for a gold-wearer, DAY.

Cullion
12th April 09, 07:01 AM
Dear Mrs. Young,

How can we be aboard the fail boat? We have succesful entrepeneurs, engineers, economists, teachers and military men posting here. These are some of the wittiest conversationalists I've ever come across*.

The world would be a better place if the UN just asked sociocide what to do.

Yes Mrs. Young, that rushing noise in your ears is the sound of inevitablity.

P.S. Please try and make your husband stop dressing so scruffily.

* This might possibly be related to the fact I grew up near Lincolnshire.

http://www.englandschurches.co.uk/Photoreflect/Old-sheds.jpg

DAYoung
12th April 09, 07:08 AM
Silver would be classier, but I figured you for a gold-wearer, DAY.

I do have a pair of gold Edwardian cufflinks, which were my great-grandfather's. But these are an exception.

I don't really have the complexion for gold.

Silver is usually better.

DAYoung
12th April 09, 07:11 AM
Dear Mrs. Young,

How can we be aboard the fail boat? We have succesful entrepeneurs, engineers, economists, teachers and military men posting here. These are some of the wittiest conversationalists I've ever come across*.

The world would be a better place if the UN just asked sociocide what to do.

Yes Mrs. Young, that rushing noise in your ears is the sound of inevitablity.

P.S. Please try and make your husband stop dressing so scruffily.

Noted. I will pass on your message to my wife ('Dr', not 'Mrs').

Also: WHO'S SCRUFFY-LOOKIN'?

Cullion
12th April 09, 07:11 AM
Silver tarnishes whereas enamel matures. It's also less flashy.

Cullion
12th April 09, 07:12 AM
Noted. I will pass on your message to my wife ('Dr', not 'Mrs')

You must open each other's mail all the time. Cripes.

Virus
12th April 09, 07:43 AM
How do you decide whether somebody exists in history or not?

The strength of the evidence.

Cullion
12th April 09, 10:57 AM
So what's the weak link in the evidence for Christ's existence for you?

Quikfeet509
12th April 09, 11:03 AM
This thread is starting to blow, but not in the god way.




Or was that good way...

Doritosaurus Chex
12th April 09, 11:20 AM
Who knows. This thread is just a lollercoaster with ups and downs.

However, Dr. Young is spot on about me with regards to point number 2.

Aphid Jones
12th April 09, 01:30 PM
Large amounts of data can be reduced into simpler rules, as long as there is some kind of structure to the data. Random data you've no hope. The relationship between inductance, voltage and resistance on the other hand has structure, which can be represented more simply in rules such as Ohm's law. So simplification is not futile where there is structure. Goon isn't talking about whether or not it's possible. He's talking about whether or not we can perceive it.

mrm1775
12th April 09, 03:35 PM
DAY, I vote for silver. If you're going to nerd out, go all the way.

As an aside: whether or not you guys celebrate Easter, I just want to wish you all a good day. Even you, Virus.

FickleFingerOfFate
12th April 09, 03:50 PM
If the cufflinks are going on a light shirt, go for the enamel so they'll stand out.
By the same virtue, the silver will show well against a dark shirt.

Also, Happy Easter,

to believers and heathens alike.

kracker
12th April 09, 04:35 PM
That sounds awfully like irreducible complexity, kracker. I don't think we should get into an ID debate right now, because you can't win and it will be used as a strawman against you.

Being impressed with nature's complexity does not equal being one of those raving lunatics who insist that the stegasaurus wore a saddle 6000 years ago.

HappyOldGuy
12th April 09, 04:41 PM
Happy easter to all. Worship at the temples of your people, eat the foods of the season with your families, enjoy the kids in their cute outfits, and chow down on peanut butter eggs.

Cullion
12th April 09, 04:48 PM
I made a roast chicken dinner and told my daughter the story of Eoster today.

Kiko
12th April 09, 04:52 PM
We had traditional breakfast with my parents, but our dinner will be postponed. Picking up our firstborn as she gets home from a week in Spain.

Happy Easter, All!

Cullion
12th April 09, 04:58 PM
Do people here (Christian or atheist/agnostic from Christan family backgrounds) have traditional Easter meals like they do for Christmas ?

Christmas is pretty firmly Turkey or Goose for most such people in the UK, but Easter not so much, it just tends to be a case of eating chocolate eggs and then maybe making a bit more effort for big home-cooked family meal for the main meal of the day.

Aphid Jones
12th April 09, 05:01 PM
Do people here (Christian or atheist/agnostic from Christan family backgrounds) have traditional Easter meals like they do for Christmas ?

Christmas is pretty firmly Turkey or Goose for most such people in the UK, but Easter not so much, it just tends to be a case of eating chocolate eggs and then maybe making a bit more effort for big home-cooked family meal for the main meal of the day. If I'm not mistaken, some types of Eastern Christians do an Agape feast on Pascha.

I eat chocolate eggs.

FickleFingerOfFate
12th April 09, 05:03 PM
Do people here (Christian or atheist/agnostic from Christan family backgrounds) have traditional Easter meals like they do for Christmas ?

Christmas is pretty firmly Turkey or Goose for most such people in the UK, but Easter not so much, it just tends to be a case of eating chocolate eggs and then maybe making a bit more effort for big home-cooked family meal for the main meal of the day.

Semi traditional ham dinner at our place, with the Parents in law.

HappyOldGuy
12th April 09, 05:03 PM
Ham seems to be a minor tradition.

I'll be adding gratined turnips and some cabbage.

Kiko
12th April 09, 05:04 PM
Polish and other Eastern Catholic (I'd guess Christian) folk bring some of the food they'll have for breakfast to be blessed on Saturday. This goes back to when the fast went from Good Friday thru to Sunday. It's a cold meal, bread, eggs, ham, sausage, horseradish, a lamb sculpted from butter. The eggs could be the ones with the intricate designs on them, but I have yet to teach the kids how.

Later in the day, I usually make roast lamb to reward my husband for being so patient with our traditions.

Cullion
12th April 09, 05:09 PM
That's interesting. HOG and FFF did your tradition with Ham come from any eastern or central european family ?

FickleFingerOfFate
12th April 09, 05:13 PM
That's interesting. HOG and FFF did your tradition with Ham come from any eastern or central european family ?


I think mine came from Kroger....






No, my family is almost exclusively Irish.

HappyOldGuy
12th April 09, 05:15 PM
Definetely not for me (Irish, Minnesota German, and Quebecois)

I think it's a more broadly american tradition. At least my local market sets out lots of extra ham around easter.

SFGOON
12th April 09, 07:41 PM
Well you haven't really said anything yet.

I'm trying to explain a concept which, if you don't have the cognitive capacity to understand, is difficult to grasp. It's like trying to explain "blue" to a man who's been blind all his life.

Anyway, I've had diarrhea and vomiting for the last 24 hours, at times simultaneously.

Naturally, I've lost my train of thought. Allow me a moment to re-ponder.

Quikfeet509
12th April 09, 07:55 PM
Jesus is testing you.

EuropIan
12th April 09, 08:26 PM
Do people here (Christian or atheist/agnostic from Christan family backgrounds) have traditional Easter meals like they do for Christmas ?

Christmas is pretty firmly Turkey or Goose for most such people in the UK, but Easter not so much, it just tends to be a case of eating chocolate eggs and then maybe making a bit more effort for big home-cooked family meal for the main meal of the day.
Big smörgardsbord with rye bread, pickled herring, leverpostej ( a paté other patées would scoff and look down their noses at), meatballs, fish cakes, eggs in various guises, more pickled herring, bacon, even more pickled herring and enough beer and aqua vitae to make you drunk.

Cullion
12th April 09, 08:44 PM
Isn't that, like, every meal in Denmark?

EuropIan
12th April 09, 08:48 PM
You know it's a holiday because you are eating pickled herring on rye bread and downing it with aqua vitae.


That or you are really really old.

Virus
12th April 09, 08:51 PM
Anyway, I've had diarrhea and vomiting for the last 24 hours, at times simultaneously.

.

The thread isn't that bad.

Robot Jesus
13th April 09, 12:15 AM
went to my uncles for a far too salty chicken.

Craigypooh
13th April 09, 05:16 AM
went to my sister-in-law's for a very nice duck a l'orange.

SFGOON
13th April 09, 06:57 AM
The thread isn't that bad.

I had some shrimp for dinner, but I left it out for - maybe two hours before I got around to cooking it. So, the next 24 hours were all about shitting and puking, often at the same time.

MrBadGuy
13th April 09, 08:24 AM
Dudes I ate a fetus' weight in Reeses eggs.

Now, granted I couldn't quite comprehend how many eggs I had eaten, as it was most certainly over 13, but I simplified it to "massive gut bomb" to make it conceivable.

EuropIan
13th April 09, 09:07 AM
Dudes I ate a fetus' weight in Reeses eggs.

Now, granted I couldn't quite comprehend how many eggs I had eaten, as it was most certainly over 13, but I simplified it to "massive gut bomb" to make it conceivable.
Let me know how the dump turned out afterwards.

I've had one piece of chocolate all easter...Perhaps I should have some before it is too late.

Cullion
13th April 09, 09:11 AM
I want Goon to finishing explaining his mathematical Ayahuasca vision.

EuropIan
13th April 09, 09:16 AM
^2nd'ed

EuropIan
13th April 09, 09:18 AM
Bonus points for the the use of the term "non-euclidian geometry"

Virus
14th April 09, 02:49 AM
Yes, I'm waiting for this "big picture" that I don't get.

bob
14th April 09, 03:40 AM
In the midst of researching an assignment I came across this so I thought I'd post it here for giggles:


In the present study a Swedish sample of 118 persons with chronic pain (http://metalib.unilinc.edu.au.libraryproxy.griffith.edu.a u/V/XG62MJIYF3NCJRNAN63I693BAS51SJI16XRB9EV6HJEP8HK6AC-77302?func=meta-3&short-format=002&set_number=048583&set_entry=000003&format=999#) completed online tests on two occasions in association with treatment trials. A three item subscale measuring praying as a coping strategy was derived from the Coping Strategies Questionnaire (CSQ), but adapted to refer to "a higher power (http://metalib.unilinc.edu.au.libraryproxy.griffith.edu.a u/V/XG62MJIYF3NCJRNAN63I693BAS51SJI16XRB9EV6HJEP8HK6AC-77302?func=meta-3&short-format=002&set_number=048583&set_entry=000003&format=999#)" instead of "God". Measures of pain (http://metalib.unilinc.edu.au.libraryproxy.griffith.edu.a u/V/XG62MJIYF3NCJRNAN63I693BAS51SJI16XRB9EV6HJEP8HK6AC-77302?func=meta-3&short-format=002&set_number=048583&set_entry=000003&format=999#) and anxiety/depression were also included. Results revealed significant associations between praying and pain (http://metalib.unilinc.edu.au.libraryproxy.griffith.edu.a u/V/XG62MJIYF3NCJRNAN63I693BAS51SJI16XRB9EV6HJEP8HK6AC-77302?func=meta-3&short-format=002&set_number=048583&set_entry=000003&format=999#) interference and impairment. Praying was also associated with anxiety and depression scores. Results also showed that prayer predicted depression scores at follow-up, and that follow-up prayer was predicted by pain (http://metalib.unilinc.edu.au.libraryproxy.griffith.edu.a u/V/XG62MJIYF3NCJRNAN63I693BAS51SJI16XRB9EV6HJEP8HK6AC-77302?func=meta-3&short-format=002&set_number=048583&set_entry=000003&format=999#) interference at first measurement occasion. Overall, if prayer had any relation with the other variables it was in the negative direction of more distress being associated with more praying both concurrently and prospectively.

Virus
14th April 09, 03:49 AM
Maybe they were expecting to feel better with prayer and then got depressed and anxious when it didn't work.

bob
14th April 09, 03:53 AM
There was also correlation with depression as they prayed so maybe they prayed without genuine faith that it would work. That was the problem, lack of faith.

Quikfeet509
14th April 09, 03:21 PM
The majority of chronic pain patients are depressed for multiple reasons, so it is difficult to take any data from that population and universalize it.


I'm just saying...

Cullion
14th April 09, 03:32 PM
They even edited the instructions to leave God out of it. How could that be a refutation of the power of true Christian prayer ?