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View Full Version : Greetings. Yet another instance of police overstepping their bounds



Knave
4th April 09, 12:01 PM
Greetings.

A few cops have once again been killed for harassing the wrong person.

http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=2&id=46098


PITTSBURGH --

A man opened fire on officers responding to a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, before barricading himself in the home, a police official said.

Three officers were killed, said a police official at the scene who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.This guy needs to be investigated by internal affairs for this outrageous breech of policy. Some of these officers think they can get away with anything.
At least five officers were wounded, police spokeswoman Diane Richard said. It's not clear if that included the slain officers.

The man who fired at the officers was arrested after a several-hour standoff. One witness reported hearing hundreds of shots.

Edward Perkovic, a 22-year-old who said he was the gunman's best friend, said he got a call at work from him in which he said, "Eddie, I am going to die today. ... Tell your family I love them and I love you."

"I heard gunshots and he hung up," Perkovic said.

The officers were called to the home in the Stanton Heights neighborhood at about 7 a.m., Richard said.

Tom Moffitt, 51, a city firefighter who lives two blocks away, said he heard about the shooting on his scanner and came to the scene, where he heard "hundreds, just hundreds of shots. And not just once - several times."

Rob Gift, 45, who lives a block away, said he heard rapid gunfire as he was letting his dog out.

He said the neighborhood of well-kept single-family houses and manicured lawns is home to many police officers, firefighters, paramedics and other city workers.

"It's just a very quiet neighborhood," Gift said.


This is what Joe Blow up-his-own-ass armchair theorist doesn't realize - every call, every traffic stop, every second of a cop's shift, could turn into something like this. People watch the Moats traffic stop and bitch and moan (partly) about a gun being drawn. Fuck that. Cops should have M4s slung all day long and it should very quickly be in the face of anyone who doesn't instantly comply.

And in this instance, as soon as the guy barricaded himself they should have set the house on fire.

Artful Dentures
4th April 09, 12:22 PM
I am confused who needs to be investigated?

Ajamil
4th April 09, 12:36 PM
Didn't get the investigation part either, but I hear you on the LEO thing. Can't say I have any experience, but there's few other jobs where a bad customer means they'll literally try to take your head off. The few times I've been pulled over, my hands sit clearly on the steering wheel the whole time not out of fear, but to remove yet one more thing to worry about for the cop.

kracker
4th April 09, 02:16 PM
Even with this and what happened with Mixon, the score is still FAR from even between citizens and cops. The number of cops citezens have killed compared to the number of citizens cops have killed is laughable. Perhaps if police didn't have the reputation for getting away with cold blooded murder of the people they are supposed to protect on a regular basis, people would not feel the need to defend themselves this way when they come knocking. It's a shame, I feel for their families, I really do but what goes around comes around and this won't stop until they change their tactics.

kracker
4th April 09, 02:41 PM
watch the Moats traffic stop and bitch and moan (partly) about a gun being drawn. Fuck that. Cops should have M4s slung all day long and it should very quickly be in the face of anyone who doesn't instantly comply.

And in this instance, as soon as the guy barricaded himself they should have set the house on fire.

You see, this is the problem between people like you and people like me. There are PLENTY of places for people like you to go and be happy. There's China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc. Meanwhile, people like me who value freedom only have Western democracies. Please stop fucking up my democracy with your police statist propaganda. Don't like freedom you can leave, but I have nowhere to go.

GuiltySpark
4th April 09, 02:55 PM
Please stop fucking up my democracy with your police statist propaganda. Don't like freedom you can leave, but I have nowhere to go.

And what have you sacrificed for the freedoms you so happily enjoy?

danno
4th April 09, 05:28 PM
kracker, i get the impression that you'll hate police regardless of their behaviour. it seems that you've decided they're evil and the foremost problem that modern society has.

Robot Jesus
4th April 09, 06:01 PM
I am confused who needs to be investigated?


I get the impression that the cops broke into the wrong house and then started shooting, follwed by the guy returning fire probably before he knew what was going on.

but it dosent say that happened anywhere, no idea where i got that idea from.

Doritosaurus Chex
4th April 09, 06:13 PM
I think the investigation part was commentary by knave about the officer who spoke with the media.

danno
4th April 09, 06:34 PM
You see, this is the problem between people like you and people like me. There are PLENTY of places for people like you to go and be happy. There's China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc. Meanwhile, people like me who value freedom only have Western democracies. Please stop fucking up my democracy with your police statist propaganda. Don't like freedom you can leave, but I have nowhere to go.

how often do you break the law?

SFGOON
4th April 09, 09:28 PM
You see, this is the problem between people like you and people like me. There are PLENTY of places for people like you to go and be happy. There's China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc. Meanwhile, people like me who value freedom only have Western democracies. Please stop fucking up my democracy with your police statist propaganda. Don't like freedom you can leave, but I have nowhere to go.


This one time, at police academy, they taught me how to defuse with vitriolic idiots like you without sounding condescending. Check this out:

Whoa! Did I just hear you correctly? You've got nowhere else to go?!

See? Now I've just interrupted your soliloquy without pissing you off, feigned sympathy which builds rapport, and basically taken control of the conversation away from you. This is also supposed to prevent you from kicking my ass, because if this were real life, I would have put my hands out at shoulder level, facing you. You would have interpreted this as surprise and sympathetic outrage on my part, but really I'm putting my hands up in a non-threatening modified fighting stance in case I have to kick your ass.

Now I'm going to start asking you questions about things in your short term memory, and as you calm down, migrate to things in long term memory. Next, I ask you speculative questions that force you to use the prefrontal cortex of your brain, disengaging your limbic system and making it more and more difficult for you to either attack me or conceal your intention to attack. Depending if I'm at Social, Terry, or Community Caretaking I may frisk you for weapons should I have sufficient articulable circumstances which lead me to believe you pose a threat of any sort.

Next, I either pounce and tie you in a knot then bounce your broken corpse down the street and into the back of my patrol car, or I tell you I'll file a report about your complaint, give you my card, write a made up case/badge number on the back, then pat you on the ass as I tell you to "have a better day!" (BTW the actual text will look something like "LOLZ Kr4ck3R = A5sh0l3!!")

This cop gig is actually pretty easy.

kracker
5th April 09, 12:19 AM
how often do you break the law?

Um, very rarely to never. That has precisely fuck all to do with anything. The creeping police state doesn't care how good a little boy or girl you are, when cops get empowered, no one is safe. Look at the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. That's what inevidably happens when police get too much power.

danno
5th April 09, 01:04 AM
have you been harrassed by police much in your life?

Doritosaurus Chex
5th April 09, 05:30 AM
Um, very rarely to never. That has precisely fuck all to do with anything. The creeping police state doesn't care how good a little boy or girl you are, when cops get empowered, no one is safe. Look at the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. That's what inevidably happens when police get too much power.

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/godwins-law-9796.jpg

jubei33
5th April 09, 07:46 AM
This one time, at police academy, they taught me how to defuse with vitriolic idiots like you without sounding condescending. Check this out:

Whoa! Did I just hear you correctly? You've got nowhere else to go?!

See?

dude, I miss you. I'm talkin' bromance here.

Have your pet projects been layed by the wayside while at the academy?

Kein Haar
5th April 09, 08:04 AM
This one time, at police academy, they taught me how to defuse with vitriolic idiots like you without sounding condescending. Check this out:

Whoa! Did I just hear you correctly? You've got nowhere else to go?!

See? Now I've just interrupted your soliloquy without pissing you off, feigned sympathy which builds rapport, and basically taken control of the conversation away from you. This is also supposed to prevent you from kicking my ass, because if this were real life, I would have put my hands out at shoulder level, facing you. You would have interpreted this as surprise and sympathetic outrage on my part, but really I'm putting my hands up in a non-threatening modified fighting stance in case I have to kick your ass.

Now I'm going to start asking you questions about things in your short term memory, and as you calm down, migrate to things in long term memory. Next, I ask you speculative questions that force you to use the prefrontal cortex of your brain, disengaging your limbic system and making it more and more difficult for you to either attack me or conceal your intention to attack. Depending if I'm at Social, Terry, or Community Caretaking I may frisk you for weapons should I have sufficient articulable circumstances which lead me to believe you pose a threat of any sort.

Next, I either pounce and tie you in a knot then bounce your broken corpse down the street and into the back of my patrol car, or I tell you I'll file a report about your complaint, give you my card, write a made up case/badge number on the back, then pat you on the ass as I tell you to "have a better day!" (BTW the actual text will look something like "LOLZ Kr4ck3R = A5sh0l3!!")

This cop gig is actually pretty easy.

N00b, I'm not going to tell you again....

socratic
5th April 09, 08:14 AM
You see, this is the problem between people like you and people like me. There are PLENTY of places for people like you to go and be happy. There's China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc. Meanwhile, people like me who value freedom only have Western democracies. Please stop fucking up my democracy with your police statist propaganda. Don't like freedom you can leave, but I have nowhere to go.

You're the reason why America will collapse.


Um, very rarely to never. That has precisely fuck all to do with anything. The creeping police state doesn't care how good a little boy or girl you are, when cops get empowered, no one is safe. Look at the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. That's what inevidably happens when police get too much power.

You have absolutely no fucking clue about history. At all.

The thing you fail to realise here is that three innocent people were shot to death by an insane man in the middle of a domestic dispute [one so obvious someone else heard and called the police]. For all you know he was beating his wife to death and you point fingers at the cops for intervening? Jesus man, the fuck is wrong with you?

diesel_tke
5th April 09, 10:36 AM
You see, this is the problem between people like you and people like me. There are PLENTY of places for people like you to go and be happy. There's China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc. Meanwhile, people like me who value freedom only have Western democracies. Please stop fucking up my democracy with your police statist propaganda. Don't like freedom you can leave, but I have nowhere to go.

You are an idiot. If it were the way you think it should work, everyone would packing, and you would have been a dead ass a long time ago.

The only reason you have the freedom that you enjoy is because Cops are around, keeping the peace so that you can enjoy it. Cops do this despite the fact that you hate them. So that you have the freedom to hate them.

One day you will have a Cop to thank for your life (you probably already have and didn't realize it). Hopefully you will be open minded enough to thank him rather than look down on him.

SFGOON
5th April 09, 12:56 PM
Have your pet projects been layed by the wayside while at the academy?

My pet projects, personal life, and personal hygiene have all taken a backseat while I learn how to kick people's asses when no reasonably effective alternative to the use of force appears to exist at the time and the amount of force employed is reasonable to affect the lawful intended purpose. Then, I write a huge paper about the ass-kicking. Later, I confront a drama-whore, a pedophile in a house robe, and twelve dullards who would rather be watching Oprah and verbally articulate why I kicked ass.

That being said, I do have one pet project I'm keeping alive. It's fairly simple and has the potential to make a millionaire out of me. It started out as a way to protect myself from a great deal of pain. As I developed the concept I started to realize it's marketability, and may damn well apply for a patent. Problem is, to field this shit, I'm going to have to run a lot of tests on it. Until I get something that's reasonably effective and easy to deploy, the only ethical way to test it is on myself.

Fuck.

GuiltySpark
5th April 09, 01:24 PM
You're the reason why America will collapse.


Isn't Kracker Canadian?
Some kid from Toronto.

kracker
5th April 09, 02:46 PM
have you been harrassed by police much in your life?

No, not really. My point is not that police are out of control... yet. Things aren't that bad, hell compared to every other country both currently existing and in history community police relations are awesome. I just don't like the direction in which things are going. If there was a magic button I could press to make all cops stay exactly the same (ie. no more or less corrupt/violent) I would press that button in a second.

kracker
5th April 09, 02:49 PM
The thing you fail to realise here is that three innocent people were shot to death by an insane man in the middle of a domestic dispute [one so obvious someone else heard and called the police]. For all you know he was beating his wife to death and you point fingers at the cops for intervening? Jesus man, the fuck is wrong with you?

Their deaths are tragedies. I don't hate policemen as individuals. I don't dispute that they were innocent. Their lives are worth every bit as much as anyone else's.

Equipoise
5th April 09, 02:54 PM
This cop gig is actually pretty easy.

Says the recruit not even out of the academy yet...

Also, shouldn't "breech" be "breach" ? Was it meant to be a pun or just poor editing?

GuiltySpark
5th April 09, 04:22 PM
Their deaths are tragedies. I don't hate policemen as individuals. I don't dispute that they were innocent. Their lives are worth every bit as much as anyone else's.
You've pretty much ruined any credibility you have or might have had. Your posts are all the same.

Speaking of which, once again can't we have an I hate cops mega thread instead of making a new "bad cop caught on you tube" ever other day?

jubei33
5th April 09, 04:40 PM
That being said, I do have one pet project I'm keeping alive. It's fairly simple and has the potential to make a millionaire out of me. It started out as a way to protect myself from a great deal of pain. As I developed the concept I started to realize it's marketability, and may damn well apply for a patent. Problem is, to field this shit, I'm going to have to run a lot of tests on it. Until I get something that's reasonably effective and easy to deploy, the only ethical way to test it is on myself.

Fuck.
this the transdermal patch one, using DMSO to transport certain substances or another one?

Anyways good luck finishing up at the academy, I'm rooting for you.

SFGOON
5th April 09, 05:57 PM
Says the recruit not even out of the academy yet...

Also, shouldn't "breech" be "breach" ? Was it meant to be a pun or just poor editing?

Your sarcasm meter should have been going off the scales. Perhaps it's as broken as my spell checker?


this the transdermal patch one, using DMSO to transport certain substances or another one?

Anyways good luck finishing up at the academy, I'm rooting for you.

New one. TRPV-1 antagonist. IC50 at 10 nM. cubed. Topically applied. I'm just concerned about the pharmacokinetics and the stability of my ligand. I'm thinking of using glycerol as an emulsifier - I want to be able to put this shit in my eyes.

Kein Haar
5th April 09, 06:01 PM
Hey there...n00b....

Knock, knock.

SFGOON
5th April 09, 06:02 PM
STFU?

Kein Haar
5th April 09, 06:04 PM
Orange you glad I didn't have to tell you myself?

SFGOON
5th April 09, 06:05 PM
Orange who?

Kein Haar
5th April 09, 06:07 PM
OMG n00b to classic knock-knock jokes too.

::face palm::

Get used to that last part, n00b. Your field training officer will be doing it a lot. OMG LOL.

SFGOON
5th April 09, 06:08 PM
Who's there?

Kein Haar
5th April 09, 06:08 PM
Banana.

SFGOON
5th April 09, 06:08 PM
Fuck it! I never get these knock-knock jokes anyway!

Kein Haar
5th April 09, 06:09 PM
Ya know what, it actually wouldn't make as much sense in writing. Nevermind.

...

...n00b.

SFGOON
5th April 09, 06:11 PM
CDs who?

Ajamil
6th April 09, 12:22 AM
or I tell you I'll file a report about your complaint, give you my card, write a made up case/badge number on the back, then pat you on the ass as I tell you to "have a better day!" (BTW the actual text will look something like "LOLZ Kr4ck3R = A5sh0l3!!")

This cop gig is actually pretty easy.

So THAT's why my calls were never responded to when I asked about the hit and run on my car!! You cops are sneaky, Mr "Badge 151"

SFGOON
6th April 09, 07:29 AM
Next time, just dial 911, scream, then hang up. Wait casually outside your home. The cops will show quite quickly. Lots of them After they uncuff you (deny you were the one who called,) mention your hit and run.

Or, call them at about 10am on a Tuesday.

danno
6th April 09, 09:19 AM
No, not really. My point is not that police are out of control... yet. Things aren't that bad, hell compared to every other country both currently existing and in history community police relations are awesome. I just don't like the direction in which things are going. If there was a magic button I could press to make all cops stay exactly the same (ie. no more or less corrupt/violent) I would press that button in a second.

i'm having a hard time understanding your hatred for the police. so you haven't really had trouble with the police in reality, don't break the law, aren't affected in any way. most people i meet who have problems with police are people who often break the law.

have you just read stories on the internet and steadily become more and more outraged?

Ajamil
6th April 09, 02:58 PM
Ya know, I've been arrested twice, had to call coips a few times, and other times was watching how they acted on things. Even when being arrested, I thought the cops were pretty damn cool.

The only time I felt the police (not "the police," this particular officer) was being silly was when her squad car was blocking my lane on a one-lane-per-side street, and I got out to ask what was wrong and if I should just go around, and she chided me on blocking the road with my car.

Artful Dentures
6th April 09, 03:00 PM
Next time, just dial 911, scream, then hang up. Wait casually outside your home. The cops will show quite quickly. Lots of them After they uncuff you (deny you were the one who called,) mention your hit and run.

Or, call them at about 10am on a Tuesday.


I once dialed 911 instead of 411, tried to hang up right away, then the phone rang but no one was there and then finally I called and got through to someone it was too late and the officer was on his way.

I then had to give him a tour of my somewhat messy house

Boy was I popular

Ajamil
6th April 09, 03:34 PM
I called 911 as a kid with my brother once. Being a young idiot (I'm older now), we were surprised and scared when someone answered, so we hung up. They immediately called back and one of our parents had to explain things.

Kein Haar
6th April 09, 04:37 PM
This happens EVERY FUCKING DAY, multiple times.

Frankly, I think cities like mine should summarily charge house holds for 911 hang-ups. Straight to the water bill or something. A ridiculous amount that'd land just about any kid a serious hiding.

It's not just personal annoyance.

It's because the ratio of false:bona-fide calls trains you to be totally complacent with these stupid fucking things. It's like playing a slot machine and never winning... ever. There's never that occasional time you win back even a little bit....practically speaking. So you're conditioned to just say fuck it...take your time....tell the back-up to not bother.

Just like burglar alarms. When only 1 out of 2,000+ house alarms are actually a burglary-in-progress, nobody is going to give any given one the respect it deserves on a day to day basis.

danno
6th April 09, 05:54 PM
Just like burglar alarms. When only 1 out of 2,000+ house alarms are actually a burglary-in-progress, nobody is going to give any given one the respect it deserves on a day to day basis.

i did alarm call-outs as a guard for a while ( i was a security guard), and never went to an actual break in. yeah, you get complacent.

then this other guard i worked with was called out to a place and managed to miss a whole window smashed in, reporting that the place looked fine with no signs of break and enter.

Harpy
6th April 09, 08:50 PM
I <3 cops



I called the police for the first time in my life when psycho girl at my place tried to attack me and her b/f (this is after the attempt on her life and me allowing her to stay at my place because she was unstable and I couldn't in good conscience let her go).

6 police officers turned up. Big ones. They came within 5 minutes, kept me on the phone and took what I said seriously. They got the situation under control, were efficient in their dealings, did not use any force and gave me my options quickly. Their hands were tied a little which made it harder to do what they felt was right (take her to hospital) but I was glad to have them there.

SFGOON
6th April 09, 08:58 PM
i'm having a hard time understanding your hatred for the police. so you haven't really had trouble with the police in reality, don't break the law, aren't affected in any way. most people i meet who have problems with police are people who often break the law.

have you just read stories on the internet and steadily become more and more outraged?

I blame "Rage Against the Machine."

Doritosaurus Chex
6th April 09, 10:23 PM
I blame "Rage Against the Machine."

Add being a know-it-all college kid and you have a dangerous mix.

Sirc
7th April 09, 03:28 AM
Wait.

I think I read the actual news article on this one. Didn't the guy's mom call the cops to come take him out of the house, and when they showed up, he shot one in the head, two in the abdomen and then one died at the hospital later? One broke his leg and one was shot in the hand.

I don't think this was a case of cops messing with someone.

mrm1775
7th April 09, 03:42 AM
I blame "Rage Against the Machine."I blame them for many things. The popularity of Che T-shirts is another one.

Sirc
7th April 09, 03:44 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/04/pittsburgh.officers.shot/index.html

You fucking dumbasses.


(CNN) -- Three Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, police officers became the first department fatalities since 1995 Saturday morning while responding to a domestic dispute call, Police Chief Nathan Harper said.
Law enforcement from several jurisdictions respond to a shooting standoff at Pittsburgh home Saturday.

Law enforcement from several jurisdictions respond to a shooting standoff at Pittsburgh home Saturday.

"We have never had to lose three officers in the line of duty at one time at one call," Harper said.

Suspect Richard Poplawski surrendered around 11 a.m. outside the Stanton Heights home he shares with his mother after a standoff that lasted nearly four hours and left two more officers injured.

Wearing a bulletproof vest and armed with an AK-47, a long rifle and a pistol, Poplawski fired about 100 rounds during the standoff, Harper said. Video Watch officers respond at the scene

Poplawski was taken into custody after surrendering to law enforcement. He is expected to face charges of homicide, aggravated assault and other related offenses, Harper said.

Officer Paul Sciullo III was the first to approach the home after responding to the scene around 7:05 a.m. He was shot in the head as he entered the doorway.

When Officer Stephen Mayhle tried to help his fellow officer, he too was shot in the head, Harper said.
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Officer Eric Kelly, who rushed to the scene on his way home after finishing his shift, was fatally shot as he attempted to assist his fallen colleagues, Harper said.

The shootings triggered a standoff between Poplawski, who was shooting from his bedroom window, and law enforcement agencies from several jurisdictions, Harper said.

Poplawski opened fire at an Army SWAT vehicle that arrived around 8:30 a.m., preventing them and medics from reaching the wounded policemen.
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Officer Timothy McManaway also was shot in the hand, the chief said. Another officer, Brian Jones, broke his leg while trying to get over a fence while securing the rear of the house, he said.

Some neighbors were evacuated during the standoff. Neighbors reported that the family had caused trouble before and Harper said police had responded to calls from the home two or three times.

socratic
7th April 09, 04:14 AM
I'm just going to say what's on everyone's minds.

The should have shot him in the head when he surrendered. Blam, game over, no lawyer blame-game bullshit... Rabid dog that needs to be put down.

Ajamil
7th April 09, 10:27 AM
The anguish that is trying to have a proper justice system. Now you know how Batman feels.

I know I'm making light of what you said, but I'm kinda serious. The reason we can belittle people that go shooting others they don't like is because we don't do this no matter how much we don't like them or how many people think it should be done this way. He gets a trial, fair representation, and a sentence.

It sucks, but it's soo totally worth it.

kracker
7th April 09, 10:43 AM
i'm having a hard time understanding your hatred for the police. so you haven't really had trouble with the police in reality, don't break the law, aren't affected in any way. most people i meet who have problems with police are people who often break the law.

have you just read stories on the internet and steadily become more and more outraged?

I wouldn't use the word hate. More like fear mixed with heavy distrust. At the risk of Godwin'ing myself in the same thread, I feel this way as a result of seeing Holocaust footage in high school. Also, a number of my ancsestors died in the Armenian genocide. The Stanford Prison Experiment and Milgram studies also heavily influenced my view of police.

Stanford Prison Experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sng2UY_tB54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bARz1LRF2WU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrV32CkkeCk

Milgram Authority Study
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjRuBKXtsLo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvza-3Uchnc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBcNSG3kxag&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg0-LyPq8n8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILfrRbWPoM&feature=related

WarPhalange
7th April 09, 10:47 AM
Those were regular people being tested on. The police has applications and training for a reason. Just like I could take a handful of random idiots from a crowd and tell them to operate a bulldozer. Then, when the slaughter is over, I could just say "Daaayum! Bulldozers is dangerous!" But that is exactly why people are trained to use them.

And if you don't think you can train someone to think differently, then you are simply blind.

WarPhalange
7th April 09, 10:48 AM
Because blind people don't think so, either.

mrm1775
7th April 09, 01:48 PM
Those were regular people being tested on. The police has applications and training for a reason. Just like I could take a handful of random idiots from a crowd and tell them to operate a bulldozer. Then, when the slaughter is over, I could just say "Daaayum! Bulldozers is dangerous!" But that is exactly why people are trained to use them.

And if you don't think you can train someone to think differently, then you are simply blind.True. Our academy averages about a %64 graduation rate, sometimes its less than half. That's after background checks, interviews, psychological and medical tests, and a polygraph. They don't just take any bum off the street and pin a badge on his chest.

Sirc
7th April 09, 02:02 PM
SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THE FIRST POST MEANT. IT SEEMS KNAVE IS AN IDIOT.

HappyOldGuy
7th April 09, 02:13 PM
True. Our academy averages about a %64 graduation rate, sometimes its less than half. That's after background checks, interviews, psychological and medical tests, and a polygraph. They don't just take any bum off the street and pin a badge on his chest.

And they also teach you how to be a cop. They give you specific tools for handling situations and try as much as possible to get you to use them. They don't just give you a bunch of random guys from the street and say, "make them behave."

Knave
7th April 09, 09:01 PM
Greetings.


Just like burglar alarms. When only 1 out of 2,000+ house alarms are actually a burglary-in-progress, nobody is going to give any given one the respect it deserves on a day to day basis.

IMO, I would think alarms are easier to know when it might be serious vs. a 911 hang up. My alarm system at my house for instance has separate window and door signals and room motions etc. So an actual break in might be back window break signal, kitchen motion, and bedroom motion, vs. just front door signal or just one room motion for being set off accidentally.

A 911 hang up though just seems like it would always be accidental or a prank, especially now with cell phones, and especially with cell phones being able to dial 911 when they aren't even in service/active and the police are supposed to just ride up and down the block. I think I'd be pissed and just not give a fuck at all about those if I was a cop.

SFGOON
7th April 09, 10:23 PM
Kracker being Armenian put SO much context to his anti-state lunacy. There was a time when Armenia had some small problems with a regional hegemon, and there were several mild unwarranted deprivations of life.

You guys know System of a Down? Armenians. So yeah...

Doritosaurus Chex
8th April 09, 06:59 AM
Kracker being Armenian put SO much context to his anti-state lunacy. There was a time when Armenia had some small problems with a regional hegemon, and there were several mild unwarranted deprivations of life.

You guys know System of a Down? Armenians. So yeah...

If you think that's bad, don't get him started on Turkish people.

Kein Haar
8th April 09, 07:03 AM
Greetings.



IMO, I would think alarms are easier to know when it might be serious vs. a 911 hang up. My alarm system at my house for instance has separate window and door signals and room motions etc. So an actual break in might be back window break signal, kitchen motion, and bedroom motion, vs. just front door signal or just one room motion for being set off accidentally.

A 911 hang up though just seems like it would always be accidental or a prank, especially now with cell phones, and especially with cell phones being able to dial 911 when they aren't even in service/active and the police are supposed to just ride up and down the block. I think I'd be pissed and just not give a fuck at all about those if I was a cop.


Other way around.

The 911 hang-ups are somewhat easier to to get a feel for. Almost zero come from cell-phones, actually.

If it's from a store, or shortly after school...probably kids.

From a residence after bar-closing time....probably some drunk bitch threatening some drunk ass with "the cops".

Alarms of every fashion always fucking go off. No rhyme or reason.

jvjim
8th April 09, 07:19 AM
If you think that's bad, don't get him started on Turkish people.

Every Turkish woman I've ever met has been hot as fuck. Stupid, but just unbelievably beautiful.

SFGOON
8th April 09, 07:20 AM
Kracker would like to tell you that in each Turkish soul lies a little bit of Hitler.

jvjim
8th April 09, 07:23 AM
You know what, fuck it, Ava Braun was hot. There, I said it.

SFGOON
8th April 09, 07:26 AM
Nein, she vast nicht einen hottenfrau!! She vast einen killerkuunt!

jvjim
8th April 09, 07:27 AM
Christ that's a horrible language.

jvjim
8th April 09, 07:29 AM
German people are pretty awesome though. (Not Nazis of course, but every German person I've ever met has been honest, hard working, smart, and the wom(edit)en were always hot, which I appreciate).

mrblackmagic
8th April 09, 10:07 AM
I file cops and doctors in the same category. You only deal with them when something is wrong or might be going wrong. For that reason plus they're usually pricks, I don't like the police. But not having them around is WAY worse.


I can remember what year it was, but the police in Sao Paulo, I believe, boycotted the government for pay increase. So there were literally no police for a week. The murder rate in those 5 days equalled the rest of the year. Hospitals had were so swamped they had treat patients outside.

I weigh the options.

kracker
8th April 09, 10:47 AM
If you think that's bad, don't get him started on Turkish people.

Meh, believe it or not I don't have a problem with Turkish people. Neither Turkish people nor German people committed any atrocities in my book. Those atrocities were committes solely by the police/military in those societies.

Kein Haar
8th April 09, 12:01 PM
I file cops and doctors in the same category. You only deal with them when something is wrong or might be going wrong. For that reason plus they're usually pricks, I don't like the police. But not having them around is WAY worse.


I can remember what year it was, but the police in Sao Paulo, I believe, boycotted the government for pay increase. So there were literally no police for a week. The murder rate in those 5 days equalled the rest of the year. Hospitals had were so swamped they had treat patients outside.

I weigh the options.

Though they are smarter, richer and more debonaire...I think doctors would agree

If someone has personal experience with us being pricks, his problems are probably really stupid.

I harken back to someone like Riddeck.

"Hey! Someone stole my ax and a couple of new picks. I have no evidence, suspect information, I left it in my unlocked car, and I'm not going make an insurance claim, but....I WANT A REPORT ANYWAY. What? You're not going to fingerprint??"

Oh, fuck you and your report-wanting dumb ass.

Not you personally, MBM.

SFGOON
8th April 09, 09:18 PM
Meh, believe it or not I don't have a problem with Turkish people. Neither Turkish people nor German people committed any atrocities in my book. Those atrocities were committes solely by the police/military in those societies.

You're the worst Armenian I have ever met. Don't you know the average Turks were complicit in the genocide of Armenians, and therefore every last one of them are the sons of Beelzebub?

danno
8th April 09, 09:45 PM
kracker, you got it all wrong. nazi germany was a bastard wrapped in a bastard with a nougaty bastard centre. fucked up at every level. you've heaped responsibility entirely on the police and military?

you're crazy as a $5 watch.

Kein Haar
8th April 09, 09:48 PM
And stupid as a bag of hair.

SFGOON
9th April 09, 07:22 AM
ooooooh, let me try one!

Kracker, you're as nasty as two rats fucking in a sweaty wool sock on a humid July day.

danno
9th April 09, 07:38 AM
did someone just get told?

Kein Haar
9th April 09, 07:51 AM
Kracker's mom's ass looks like two hogs in a gunny sack.

Doritosaurus Chex
9th April 09, 08:02 AM
did someone just get told?

http://www.oneparticularwave.com/wp-content/uploads/oh-snap-460px.jpg

danno
9th April 09, 08:23 AM
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8871/0c81efeac5df8658cff1a02.jpg

Doritosaurus Chex
9th April 09, 08:37 AM
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/5694/ohsnap7ft.gif

socratic
9th April 09, 09:29 AM
Boh map!

Wait a minute...

kracker
9th April 09, 04:47 PM
kracker, you got it all wrong. nazi germany was a bastard wrapped in a bastard with a nougaty bastard centre. fucked up at every level. you've heaped responsibility entirely on the police and military?

you're crazy as a $5 watch.

Here's a challenge for you. Can you name something generally considered as bad that Nazi Germany without mentioning the police or military? I suppose you could add the Knave-like enablers of the police and military who supported them but other than that I bet you can't.

kracker
9th April 09, 04:49 PM
You're the worst Armenian I have ever met. Don't you know the average Turks were complicit in the genocide of Armenians, and therefore every last one of them are the sons of Beelzebub?

How complicit? Turkey was barely a democracy back then. If a Turk saw the genocide as wrong (and I'm sure there were many) he would have had no means to stop it. Therefore as long as he wasn't a cop/soldier actively perpetuating it then he's all clear in my book.There's no sense in blaming people who were not directly responsible.

bob
9th April 09, 05:01 PM
What about the continual denial of responsibility?

SFGOON
9th April 09, 08:24 PM
What about the continual denial of responsibility?

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

OH SNAP!

danno
9th April 09, 08:54 PM
firstly kracker, i good on you for replying to a series of ad-hominem attacks with a sensible tone.


Here's a challenge for you. Can you name something generally considered as bad that Nazi Germany without mentioning the police or military?

not really, because you need military to fight wars and police to maintain a reasonably lawful society. if germany had police and a military and her opponents did not, you might have a point. unfortunately, germany was defeated militarily.

can you name a just war that was fought without military?

HappyOldGuy
9th April 09, 11:13 PM
Here's a challenge for you. Can you name something generally considered as bad that Nazi Germany without mentioning the police or military? I suppose you could add the Knave-like enablers of the police and military who supported them but other than that I bet you can't.

Err, the brownshirts were neither police nor military, but were the primary folks responsible for joyous occasions like Krystalnacht.

Ajamil
9th April 09, 11:28 PM
not really, because you need military to fight wars and police to maintain a reasonably lawful society. if germany had police and a military and her opponents did not, you might have a point. unfortunately, germany was defeated militarily.

can you name a just war that was fought without military?

Hmm, you understood his question differently than me. I was going to go with the indifference or straight up outing of the Jewish and other communities to be taken away, and the quick compliance to bring all business under the control of the Nazi party. Aren't both of those examples of the general population being naughty, not the police?

kracker
10th April 09, 02:50 PM
What about the continual denial of responsibility?

-Are the current leaders of Turkey being a cowardly bunch of AIDS infected vaginal cavities in regard to admitting historical facts? Absoloutely

Should they be locked in a small room containing Karo Parsiyan until they stop making up bullshit explanations and excuses? Sure

Does that have anything to do with anything? NO

As insulting as it is to have them continually deny what happened, it changes nothing and in no way makes them the same as the people who actually commited the genocide, so my point stands.

kracker
10th April 09, 02:56 PM
Hmm, you understood his question differently than me. I was going to go with the indifference or straight up outing of the Jewish and other communities to be taken away, and the quick compliance to bring all business under the control of the Nazi party. Aren't both of those examples of the general population being naughty, not the police?

See my comment about the Knaves of Germany. Sure these people suck but all they do is lick badge so I'd put them in the same category as police/military.

kracker
10th April 09, 03:02 PM
firstly kracker, i good on you for replying to a series of ad-hominem attacks with a sensible tone.



not really, because you need military to fight wars and police to maintain a reasonably lawful society. if germany had police and a military and her opponents did not, you might have a point. unfortunately, germany was defeated militarily.

can you name a just war that was fought without military?

Thanks for continuing a reasonable dialogue. I disagree with nothing you said. I am not, not have I ever claimed to be an anarchist. Police/military are indeed a necessary evil to a certain extent. My point is that when they are privy to an excess of power and trust, they commit atrocities as has been repeatedly demonstrated by history. Hence, we should not give today's officers free passes on power abuse or history may very well repeat itself.

kracker
10th April 09, 03:03 PM
Err, the brownshirts were neither police nor military, but were the primary folks responsible for joyous occasions like Krystalnacht.

They were authority figures demanding compliance through acts of violence. In what way are they seperate from police/military?

HappyOldGuy
10th April 09, 03:07 PM
They were authority figures demanding compliance through acts of violence. In what way are they seperate from police/military?
In the way that the legitimate police and military didn't perpetrate atrocities and acts of terrorism against jews until after the Nazis had taken over, and in fact attempted to stop the brownshirts from doing so.

Stop being a moron.

Cullion
10th April 09, 04:33 PM
The brownshirts were just political 'activists' who brawled and vandalised at the behest of the Nazi party. They weren't part of the apparatus of the German state with powers under the law. They were like the facist version of the G20 protestors basically.

The closest parallel in American history would be the Klu Klux Klan I think.

HappyOldGuy
10th April 09, 04:41 PM
The closest parallel in American history would be the Klu Klux Klan I think.

I could come up with some better paralells from the revolutionary war, but my countrymen would probably tar and feather me.

jubei33
10th April 09, 05:48 PM
tar and feather is dated, we wax and defollicle, now. Get with the times gramps and keep them lips sealed. ")

danno
16th April 09, 06:44 PM
Thanks for continuing a reasonable dialogue. I disagree with nothing you said. I am not, not have I ever claimed to be an anarchist. Police/military are indeed a necessary evil to a certain extent. My point is that when they are privy to an excess of power and trust, they commit atrocities as has been repeatedly demonstrated by history. Hence, we should not give today's officers free passes on power abuse or history may very well repeat itself.

sorry about the late reply. been busy.

the thing is, you seem to think any and every example of police using force is wrong and evil. and that as soon as you put someone in a uniform they become a power hungry maniac. you come across as strongly anti-authority, any kind of authority.

GuiltySpark
16th April 09, 07:10 PM
Kracker are you Canadian of American?

kracker
17th April 09, 01:58 PM
sorry about the late reply. been busy.

the thing is, you seem to think any and every example of police using force is wrong and evil. and that as soon as you put someone in a uniform they become a power hungry maniac. you come across as strongly anti-authority, any kind of authority.

No prob, exam time blows. Just finished today myself.

I don't think I said that any and every example of police using force is wrong. If it's like directly to stop a crime in progress or something like that then I have no problem with tasers or even firearms depending on the case. It just seems to me like cops are getting a carte blanche on use of force lately, even if people aren't resisting. I believe that is dangerous for the reasons I mentioned before. The uniform will not necessarily make someone a power hungry maniac but it does make good people obey and act on the behalf power hungry maniacs if the higher power structures in the police condone or endorse brutality.

EDIT: check out the Stanford prison experiment link I posted for an excellent example of what I'm talking about. The leader guard they nicknamed "John Wayne" was a sadistic fucknut. While the other guards presumably weren't they went along obeying the sadistic fucknut and doing similar things themselves. That's the danger a uniform holds.

Kein Haar
17th April 09, 03:56 PM
They should have a thing like olde tyme fire protection districts used to have, but with police.

If your house doesn't have a fire [police] tax placard, your house won't be put out...or in the case of police, we won't investigate the theft of your Ipod. That way, the odds of us brutalizing you over such a stupid service call will be far less.

And Kracker can sleep better at night.

Cullion
18th April 09, 08:34 AM
I'm not sure that suburban america could handle that amount of rape.

danno
18th April 09, 10:56 PM
I don't think I said that any and every example of police using force is wrong.

i haven't seen you actually say that, but you do come across that way.


If it's like directly to stop a crime in progress or something like that then I have no problem with tasers or even firearms depending on the case. It just seems to me like cops are getting a carte blanche on use of force lately, even if people aren't resisting. I believe that is dangerous for the reasons I mentioned before. The uniform will not necessarily make someone a power hungry maniac but it does make good people obey and act on the behalf power hungry maniacs if the higher power structures in the police condone or endorse brutality.

how does this video make you feel?

zxHlDqcUY6E


EDIT: check out the Stanford prison experiment link I posted for an excellent example of what I'm talking about. The leader guard they nicknamed "John Wayne" was a sadistic fucknut. While the other guards presumably weren't they went along obeying the sadistic fucknut and doing similar things themselves. That's the danger a uniform holds.

i've watched a documentary on that experiment before, i agree it's pretty disturbing. it's kinda like that shock treatment experiment where most people seemed happy to zap other humans (who were actors) to death so long as the scientists said it was okay.

see, i totally agree that we need to keep a very close eye on our governments, military, police, even CEO's. we need to keep them honest.

at the same time, the police are there to keep US honest. they were created by us, and we pay their wages for this purpose.

Ajamil
19th April 09, 05:29 PM
it's kinda like that shock treatment experiment where most people seemed happy to zap other humans (who were actors) to death so long as the scientists said it was okay.
What was so disturbing about that is that the people weren't happy with it. Some would break down sobbing at what they did/were going to do, but because "authority" asked them to, they went against their own ethics to comply.

BTW, the number of people complying went down by something like 2/3 when there was at least one other test subject with them (i.e. wasn't just "them vs. authority).

Edit: it took me ten seconds of watching that vid to realize they had British accents, and weren't speaking in the most horrible Southern drawl I've ever experienced.

Equipoise
19th April 09, 11:27 PM
i haven't seen you actually say that, but you do come across that way.



how does this video make you feel?

zxHlDqcUY6E



i've watched a documentary on that experiment before, i agree it's pretty disturbing. it's kinda like that shock treatment experiment where most people seemed happy to zap other humans (who were actors) to death so long as the scientists said it was okay.

see, i totally agree that we need to keep a very close eye on our governments, military, police, even CEO's. we need to keep them honest.

at the same time, the police are there to keep US honest. they were created by us, and we pay their wages for this purpose.

Taser time. I'm surprised that the officers didn't use more force to make the individual comply. Active resistance means going beyond restraining techniques

kracker
20th April 09, 11:08 AM
i haven't seen you actually say that, but you do come across that way.



how does this video make you feel?

zxHlDqcUY6E
.

I have nothing but respect for the officers in that video. That was very reasonable force IMHO. The problem is, if those officers were less decent/honorable, they could have put 10 bullets in the guy's brain and skated. Kudos to them for truly being peace officers. You don't see a lot of that these days.

kracker
20th April 09, 11:09 AM
Taser time. I'm surprised that the officers didn't use more force to make the individual comply. Active resistance means going beyond restraining techniques

Case in point.

Ajamil
20th April 09, 11:23 AM
Gotta agree there was no reason to escalate the force in that video. I was a bit surprised they weren't being more aware/cautious of the guy's friend, tho.

Equipoise
20th April 09, 07:25 PM
He was resisting actively. While Kracker's an idiot and doesn't deserve an explanation, I'll give one to you Arjuna.

It's very easy to get injured in a situation like this. Even from wrestling this guy, you can tear tendons and what not let alone have this guy risk pulling out a weapon. They told him they were going to search him. He flips out. We have the issue of a possible weapon upon the suspect. Also, have you ever tried to restrain someone that didn't want to be? Fighting someone directly is one thing, but trying to restrain someone that wants to flee is incredibly difficult with two officers let alone one. I'm also willing to bet that this individual is under the influence of some substance.

While this doesn't mean you beat the suspect into a bloody mess, striking techniques are warranted in this situation to bring it to a quick end and to place the individual into custody as quickly as possible. Another issue is the fact that the primary officer got sprayed by the secondary officer on accident. This spray obviously had no effect upon the suspect.

A Taser would have quickly ended this confrontation sans injury to any party.

SFGOON
20th April 09, 08:13 PM
The taser is a very safe and effective weapon. It's much less dangerous - for the suspect - than wrestling his hysterical ass on the concrete.

Ever had your skull inadvertently slammed into a curb? It hurts even if you're dumb enough to resist two cops.

Equipoise
20th April 09, 09:10 PM
Been hit with the Taser yet SFRookie?

SFGOON
20th April 09, 09:44 PM
Send me your municipal email via PM and I'll send you the video.

PS; Even Systema could not defend.

Equipoise
20th April 09, 09:45 PM
I'll take that as a yes. Did they strap the leads on you or shoot you in the back?

SFGOON
20th April 09, 09:56 PM
They shot me in the back - without warning. I howled on the way down and farted about halfway through. It was the full 5-second ride, but it felt like about 15 seconds.

This weekend my brother brought his out when I visited him and was waving it around. As soon as he cycled it I got this sinking feeling. Those things leave an impression.

Equipoise
21st April 09, 07:49 PM
Most suspects instantly comply when they see that red dot. They're more scared of that then an actual fire arm. In riots, they're fun too. You can get all the guys on the front line to cycle them and the crackling generally makes people in the riot run or think twice.

Have you seen the Shockwave or got a chance to mess around with the shotgun round tazer?

kracker
21st April 09, 09:14 PM
In riots, they're fun too. You can get all the guys on the front line to cycle them and the crackling generally makes people in the riot run or think twice.

Have you seen the Shockwave or got a chance to mess around with the shotgun round tazer?

Nothing says "To Serve and Protect" like terrorizing civillians practicing their constitutional right to free assembly for amusement. Do you even wonder why the people you're supposed to protect don't trust or like you?

Doritosaurus Chex
21st April 09, 09:26 PM
Nothing says "To Serve and Protect" like terrorizing civillians practicing their constitutional right to free assembly for amusement. Do you even wonder why the people you're supposed to protect don't trust or like you?

I agree. I think cops have too many privileges that trample over my right to throw molotov cocktails and loot in the middle of a riot.

jubei33
22nd April 09, 04:18 AM
Nothing says "To Serve and Protect" like terrorizing civillians practicing their constitutional right to free assembly for amusement. Do you even wonder why the people you're supposed to protect don't trust or like you?


do you ever wonder if its the kind of people you hang out with?

Shawarma
22nd April 09, 05:23 AM
Kind of a difference between a protest and a riot, cracka.

Zendetta
22nd April 09, 06:08 PM
Kudos to them for truly being peace officers. You don't see a lot of that these days.

YOU don't see it. For conceptual reasons, I'd say.


Nothing says "To Serve and Protect" like terrorizing civillians practicing their constitutional right to free assembly for amusement.

LOL. I'm a little foggy on my Constitutional scholarship, so help me out - which amendment gives us the Inalienable Right to Riot again?

HappyOldGuy
22nd April 09, 06:11 PM
YOU don't see it. For conceptual reasons, I'd say.



LOL. I'm a little foggy on my Constitutional scholarship, so help me out - which amendment gives us the Inalienable Right to Riot again?

The 2nd. Duh

Zendetta
22nd April 09, 06:34 PM
LOL. Well played, HOG.