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Spade: The Real Snake
16th March 09, 09:56 AM
From PopEater and TMZ:

Jackie Mason Under Fire For "Yiddish Slur"

http://www.popeater.com/movies/article/jackie-mason-racism-charges/383621

(March 16) - Legendary comedian Jackie Mason is in full defense mode after catching flack for using what many consider to be a Yiddish racial slur to describe President Barack Obama.


The 'Caddyshack 2' star referred to Obama as a "schwartza" during a performance in New York City on Thursday night, TMZ reports (http://www.tmz.com/2009/03/15/jackie-mason-hurls-insult-at-obama/), causing at least one audience member to storm out.

Mason denies the word is a racial epithet, angrily telling TMZ that it's just slang for black person. "I'm an old Jew. I was raised in a Jewish family where 'schwartza' was used," he said. "It's not a demeaning word and I'm not going to defend myself."


Schwartz literally means "black" in Yiddish. According to the Racial Slur Database (http://www.racialslurs.com/search?q=yiddish), the word itself is not derogatory in nature, but that it is usually used in a negative way.
*(*note...I had no idea this site even existed)


Though he said he wouldn't "defend himself," Mason continued to do so in his conversation with TMZ, slamming fellow controversial figures like comedian Chris Rock and Rev. Al Sharpton in the process.


"Chris Rock has told a lot more jokes about whites than I have against Blacks. What about the demeaning words Blacks say about Jews?"


Mason then alleged that white people are more persecuted when it comes to civil rights. "If it's a racist society, the white people are the ones being persecuted because they have to defend themselves." He then referred to Sharpton and Rev. Jesse Jackson as "professional racists."


Sharpton quickly struck back, sending the following statement to TMZ:


"At this stage in Jackie's life and career he should get our prayers more than our responses. It is sad that maybe he forgot he used the same term against Mayor David Dinkins when he was elected the first African-American Mayor of New York City and got in trouble for it. As for him attacking me, maybe he forgot that he has had me on his TV show and has taken me to dinner and commended me for forgiving a white male who tried to kill me by stabbing me while I was leading a non-violent march. I'm sure Jackie just forgot."



TMZ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/03/16/jackie-mason-how-dare-you-say-im-racist/) caught up with Mason again over the weekend when he continued his no-defense defense strategy, saying he believes "white people have no freedom of speech."

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=b597095e-0596-49ad-b023-9405fd637673

Kiko
16th March 09, 10:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsj4s9z-EAE

Spade: The Real Snake
16th March 09, 10:54 AM
[kayne west voice] MEL BROOKS HATE INDIAN PEEPLE!!! [/kayne west voice]

Fearless Ukemi
16th March 09, 11:41 AM
People will complain about anything.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th March 09, 11:56 AM
People will complain about anything.

I was curious to see if Mason had supported either candidate during the Presidential election, and I guess he has a vBlog (why?) and while it was stated he never made any comment of support *for* McCain, it was stated he was critical of both Clinton-ette and Obama.

It was stated he was also critical of them on his one-man Broadway show.

TheLordHumungus
16th March 09, 01:04 PM
I'm shocked that a regular guest on Fox News has said something racist and believes that white men are the real persecuted group. Next you're going to tell me that Bill O'Reilly is an entitled misogynist.

Cullion
16th March 09, 02:18 PM
How offensive is the term in real usage?

I'm aware that it means 'black', but I don't know how it fits in an American context.

Truculent Sheep
16th March 09, 02:22 PM
I believe the term 'Shvatza' is much more offensive.

white_kimbo
16th March 09, 02:25 PM
How offensive is the term in real usage?

I'm aware that it means 'black', but I don't know how it fits in an American context.

if you're speaking yiddish, it is the only word to use. so, it isn't an offensive term. if you're speaking english and you say "schvartza" then you are setting yourself up to get accused of using a racial slur. however, for old jews who pepper their english with yiddishisms all the time, they don't understand why shvartza is such a horrible thing to say. to them that is like telling them that "black" or "african american" is now a slur.

people need to lighten up, whether your a kike like me, or a shvartza like al sharpton, there are bigger things to worry about than some old yid comedian talking out of his ass.

Zendetta
16th March 09, 02:30 PM
people need to lighten up, whether your a kike like me, or a shvartza like al sharpton, there are bigger things to worry about than some old yid comedian talking out of his ass.

Sheesh, even a Goy like me can see the truth of that.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th March 09, 02:57 PM
people need to lighten up, whether your a kike like me, or a shvartza like al sharpton, there are bigger things to worry about than some old yid comedian talking out of his ass.

I agree.

Reparations for Caddyshack 2 are still owed.


and still no comments on the awesomeness that is the racial slur database.

I mean, you can now find an obscure insult for EVERONE.

Shawarma
16th March 09, 03:21 PM
THE PRESIDENT IS A SCHWARZA!

WarPhalange
16th March 09, 03:32 PM
There is a word in Polish for black person as well, that doesn't carry any derogatory meaning. I'm inclined to believe he said something similar to that and people are all up in arms about it because it means "black". (isn't that derived from German, by the way?) If he had stuck to that, I think he would have had a lot more support. Going apeshit and playing the victim of a mass conspiracy doesn't help things at all.

Even when you have a black person saying shit like that, they get funny looks. You need some real proof of it happening, like an employer not hiring you because of your race or cops arresting you because of your race. White people are complaining "you aren't letting us say what we want!" and black people (and those of other races as well) are saying "you aren't treating us the same as white people!"

And to be sure, there is also racism among those other races, I'd venture to say the percentage is equal across the board. The difference is that white people (at least in the US and Europe) are still the majority of power-holders, so they have the chance to discriminate. What's a McDonald's worker going to do? So given some more years, when things get more equalized just by pure statistics, I think you'll have everybody complaining about everybody else. :)

Zendetta
16th March 09, 04:25 PM
"Negro"

"Colored Person"

These used to be the PC thing to say, now they are "racist".

In conclusion, fuck Al Sharpton.

WarPhalange
16th March 09, 04:32 PM
Negro should still be acceptable, the same way Caucasian or Asian is. Or at least "African", because "African-American" is bullshit, as it only refers to people who are US citizens.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th March 09, 04:37 PM
Negro should still be acceptable, the same way Caucasian or Asian is. Or at least "African", because "African-American" is bullshit, as it only refers to people who are US citizens.

Blumenbach had a different name for the Asian people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Friedrich_Blumenbach

WarPhalange
16th March 09, 04:40 PM
That's fascinating, but what does it have to do with anything? Caucasian refers to Caucasus and Asian refers to Asia, even though most people in the US weren't born in either of those places. So I guess "Negro" could be nixed by that logic, but "African" should still be alright.

And I hate how Filipinos are called "Asian" even though they are Malaysian.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th March 09, 04:55 PM
That's fascinating, but what does it have to do with anything? Caucasian refers to Caucasus and Asian refers to Asia, even though most people in the US weren't born in either of those places. So I guess "Negro" could be nixed by that logic, but "African" should still be alright.

And I hate how Filipinos are called "Asian" even though they are Malaysian.
But you are mixing themes. These aren't as they were originally created by Blumenbach.

Because the words "Negroid" and "Mongoloid" now have negative connotations associated with them, they are deemed by those who would be labeled with them as offensive.

Cullion
16th March 09, 04:56 PM
I thought Malaysians were Asians. And don't a lot of Philipino people have some chinese ancestry ?

Out of curiousity, which of the white people here think of themselves just as 'white' ?

I understand a lot of people's first mental cataloguing of me will be 'white', but I think of myself as Anglo-Irish.

HappyOldGuy
16th March 09, 05:20 PM
Out of curiousity, which of the white people here think of themselves just as 'white' ?


you need to add bread.

and mayonnaise.

Shawarma
16th March 09, 05:21 PM
"Negro"

"Colored Person"

These used to be the PC thing to say, now they are "racist".

In conclusion, fuck Al Sharpton.
I disagree with this post. Firstly, Al Sharpton is not very fuckable. Secondly, for a white American to use the word "negro" towards a black person can be seen as a way of subtly reminding said Gentleman of Colour that "Mah granddaddeh used to whip yo granddaddeh," considering the very prolific use of black slaves in the US and the use of the word "negro" to describe them. Consider the use of the word on these flyers:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D53De9jwkyg/R1ozdAgQpUI/AAAAAAAAAMM/GMU5inlhKaY/s320/forsale.jpg
http://www.ngbiwm.com/Exhibits/middle_passage/Slave_Auction_Ad.jpg
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/media/gallery/Document/slaves_sale_f.jpg

Looking at these, I can personally understand why an American black might not wish to be referred to as a "negro." "A negro" was once a thing you bought and owned.

Cullion
16th March 09, 05:33 PM
So was a black man, it's just that the acceptable words keep switching around on us.

Are people still really not able to discern the spirit in which something was meant?

EuropIan
16th March 09, 05:36 PM
Out of curiousity, which of the white people here think of themselves just as 'white' ?


I'm white and sometimes, in denmark, I am not.

Cullion
16th March 09, 05:38 PM
You mean sometimes you're Danish?

Shawarma
16th March 09, 06:00 PM
<-----black from the waist down.

Fucking gangrene....

Zendetta
16th March 09, 06:13 PM
I disagree with this post.....

LOL, dude, my family has roots in the South that go back to the Revolution. My parents live in a big country house that was built by slaves of my some-odd great grandfather.

I'm well aware of the baggage attached to those terms - what you seem to not know is that "Negro" was indeed the preferred, PC, "empowerment" term used for a while. Same with "colored person". These terms are "racist" now.

If history is any guide, you'll run the risk of being fired for calling your non-white co-worker a "person of color" within a decade or so.

And you know you love Sharpton's hair.

Cullion
16th March 09, 06:22 PM
If they didn't keep everybody on their toes by being forced to relearn good manners ever decade or so, a lot of 2nd string lawyers and 'diversity consultants' would be out of work.

HappyOldGuy
16th March 09, 06:30 PM
If history is any guide, you'll run the risk of being fired for calling your non-white co-worker a "person of color" within a decade or so.

Shortly thereafter their kids will rehab the word and start using it amongst themselves.

And a tiny bit after that, some white guy will be on the internet whining about 'how come I can't say it if they can.'


To every thing, turn turn turn...

Spade: The Real Snake
16th March 09, 06:32 PM
I'm white and sometimes, in denmark, I am not.

Not according to the Racial Slur Database.

You are a Butter Cookie. (http://www.racialslurs.com/search?q=danish)


I understand a lot of people's first mental cataloguing of me will be 'white', but I think of myself as Anglo-Irish.


Rooinek (http://www.racialslurs.com/search?q=anglo)-Donkey (http://www.racialslurs.com/search?q=irish), if you will.

Although you are British (http://www.racialslurs.com/search?q=british), so I prefer "Fog Horn"

Zendetta
16th March 09, 06:37 PM
To every thing, turn turn turn...

I feel the term "white" to be racist and exclusionary. I am starting a movement to have the hateful term replaced by a more respectful one - "People of Pallor".

Cullion
16th March 09, 06:39 PM
Never heard the term Rooinek before. Most of the other terms on that page aren't derogatory.

The closest thing to a derogatory term for British people on there is 'Pom', but only if prefaced by 'whinging' and said with a sneer by an Australian.

I think it will take a few more generations before most British people take particular offence at a slang word for them, and when that point is reached, it will be a watershed mark in our loss of national self-confidence.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th March 09, 06:39 PM
Never heard the term Rooinek before. Most of the other terms on that page aren't derogatory.

The closest thing to a derogatory term for British people on there is 'Pom', but only if prefaced by 'whinging' and said with a sneer by an Australian.

I think it will take a few more generations before most British people take particular offence at a slang word for them.

Chav?

EuropIan
16th March 09, 07:08 PM
Not according to the Racial Slur Database.

You are a Butter Cookie. (http://www.racialslurs.com/search?q=danish)


Hey... beats "pig fucker"

Cullion
16th March 09, 07:13 PM
Chav?

Not really. It's a term British people use about other low-class British people.

Calling a random British person a chav would be like calling a random white American a 'redneck' or 'trailer trash'. If they weren't actually a redneck and didn't live in a trailer, it just wouldn't make sense.

It's a social class epithet rather than an ethnic one.

Robot Jesus
17th March 09, 12:44 AM
... believes that white men are the real persecuted group...



There is a word in Polish for black person as well, that doesn't carry any derogatory meaning. I'm inclined to believe he said something similar to that and people are all up in arms about it because it means "black". (isn't that derived from German, by the way?) If he had stuck to that, I think he would have had a lot more support. Going apeshit and playing the victim of a mass conspiracy doesn't help things at all.

Even when you have a black person saying shit like that, they get funny looks. You need some real proof of it happening, like an employer not hiring you because of your race or cops arresting you because of your race. White people are complaining "you aren't letting us say what we want!" and black people (and those of other races as well) are saying "you aren't treating us the same as white people!"

And to be sure, there is also racism among those other races, I'd venture to say the percentage is equal across the board. The difference is that white people (at least in the US and Europe) are still the majority of power-holders, so they have the chance to discriminate. What's a McDonald's worker going to do? So given some more years, when things get more equalized just by pure statistics, I think you'll have everybody complaining about everybody else. :)


/thread

TheLordHumungus
17th March 09, 01:06 AM
Cullion, the brits I've met were none to fond of "limey". Is this not universal? Or were those limeys just strangely sensitive?

Cullion
17th March 09, 02:37 AM
Cullion, the brits I've met were none to fond of "limey". Is this not universal? Or were those limeys just strangely sensitive?

They sound more sensitive than normal. I get referred to as 'limey' by the American I sit next to at work all the time. I take no offence at all. The word simply refers to a British sea captain working out how to protect his men from Scurvy. How could I construe that as offensive, even if said with contempt ?

Robot Jesus
17th March 09, 02:46 AM
Perhaps it’s because of the navel tradition surrounding the word limy, and those blokes did not cotton to being called sodomites; if anyone it gracious to gests it's the British.

EuropIan
17th March 09, 03:37 AM
You mean sometimes you're Danish?
Yes, I'm Danish compared to other perkers but a perker compared to some Danes.

Kiko
17th March 09, 02:23 PM
http://engrishfunny.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/engrish-funny-racist.jpg

I'm a Polack!

TheLordHumungus
17th March 09, 04:12 PM
I just noticed the most disturbing part of this.


Legendary comedian Jackie Mason...

Legendary? Since when? For what?!?!

Can you be legendarily sub-par?

Robot Jesus
17th March 09, 06:38 PM
in twenty year weird Al will be a legendary musical comedian, not that he isent already.

WarPhalange
17th March 09, 11:18 PM
Yes, his good material is all legend, not based on reality.

TheLordHumungus
17th March 09, 11:23 PM
But in twenty years will Carrot Top be a comic legend? It demeans those who've earned the title. We have to resurrect Richard Pryor and George Carlin to clean house, dammit!

Shawarma
18th March 09, 09:16 AM
.....I think Weird Al's made some pretty funny stuff.

Zendetta
18th March 09, 01:18 PM
Weird Al is awesome.

Carrot Top... not so much. He IS a freaky looking mutherfucker though.

socratic
19th March 09, 06:00 PM
Ho-boy. Whenever someone proclaims white people are persecuted/they are persecuted because they are white, it all goes downhill from there.

Yep, so-called 'comedian' is screwed. He's hit un-PC critical mass.

TheLordHumungus
19th March 09, 07:33 PM
Claiming whites are oppressed in the US isn't un-PC, its fucking delusional.

Spade: The Real Snake
20th March 09, 10:05 AM
Claiming whites are oppressed in the US isn't un-PC, its fucking delusional.

So you subscribe ONLY to racism and not classism now.

Zendetta
20th March 09, 11:13 AM
bwahahha!

Hoisted on your own petard.

TM
20th March 09, 12:15 PM
But in twenty years will Carrot Top be a comic legend? It demeans those who've earned the title. We have to resurrect Richard Pryor and George Carlin to clean house, dammit!

Reminds me of the "diva" BS.
......and Jackie is a smuck. Carrot top is a putz.

TheLordHumungus
20th March 09, 11:11 PM
So you subscribe ONLY to racism and not classism now.

How'd you come to that assumption?

Whites here do not face oppression based upon the color of their skin. This confused you? Or were you under the impression that being white in the US is a handicap?

WarPhalange
21st March 09, 02:57 AM
Whites here do not face oppression based upon the color of their skin.

They (we) do, actually, but the results don't compare to racism against other races, simply because more whites are in power than people of other races in this country. So while black executives and CEOs and such can be racist, the fact is that there are just more white managers/owners/whatever at this time.

So at the moment the only "oppression" we really face is the odd personal act of discrimination (neighbor don't like you cuz you a cracka) or the "white people can't jump/dance/rap/be cool in any way" stereotype. That's not nearly as damaging as the "blacks aren't human/are fundamentally dumber than whites/want to rape our white wimminz" stereotypes, so we can't exactly complain at this point.

The mind-numbing thing about this is that more often than not it's blacks in power that are perpetuating the stereotypes that being a gangsta is cool and school is for unhip squares. If we had some sort of famous trophy wife start telling girls that they are only here to serve their husbands, that whole show would be dismantled in hours. This has been going on for years, though, and even if every white person stopped being racist right this instant, you'd still see the stereotypes perpetuated and then white people would complain about it and start perpetuating it themselves again. In essence, this needs to come from "grass roots" movements. Fuck, who was that civil rights guy, who refused help from white people, claiming that it's something blacks have to do alone, and if they got help from whites it would seem as if they could not have done it on their own? I remember his name starting with a D. Or something. But that's what it boils down to. I hate to make this analogy, but it's a case of "you can lead a horse to water". Cooperation > doing it alone, but having someone do it for you just won't work at all.

Spade: The Real Snake
21st March 09, 08:44 AM
How'd you come to that assumption? By this comment:

Claiming whites are oppressed in the US isn't un-PC, its fucking delusional.


Whites here do not face oppression based upon the color of their skin. This confused you? Where exactly is this Utopia you managed to find, yet alluded Sir Thomas More for so long?


Or were you under the impression that being white in the US is a handicap? Where do you make this assumption?

TheLordHumungus
21st March 09, 11:28 PM
They (we) do, actually, but the results don't compare to racism against other races, simply because more whites are in power than people of other races in this country. So while black executives and CEOs and such can be racist, the fact is that there are just more white managers/owners/whatever at this time.

So at the moment the only "oppression" we really face is the odd personal act of discrimination (neighbor don't like you cuz you a cracka) or the "white people can't jump/dance/rap/be cool in any way" stereotype. That's not nearly as damaging as the "blacks aren't human/are fundamentally dumber than whites/want to rape our white wimminz" stereotypes, so we can't exactly complain at this point.

The mind-numbing thing about this is that more often than not it's blacks in power that are perpetuating the stereotypes that being a gangsta is cool and school is for unhip squares. If we had some sort of famous trophy wife start telling girls that they are only here to serve their husbands, that whole show would be dismantled in hours. This has been going on for years, though, and even if every white person stopped being racist right this instant, you'd still see the stereotypes perpetuated and then white people would complain about it and start perpetuating it themselves again. In essence, this needs to come from "grass roots" movements. Fuck, who was that civil rights guy, who refused help from white people, claiming that it's something blacks have to do alone, and if they got help from whites it would seem as if they could not have done it on their own? I remember his name starting with a D. Or something. But that's what it boils down to. I hate to make this analogy, but it's a case of "you can lead a horse to water". Cooperation > doing it alone, but having someone do it for you just won't work at all.

We mostly agree. I just don't see acts of discrimination from random ppl on the street as being oppression. Oppression comes from those in positions of power using it others. My neighbor hating me isn't oppression. Being pulled over because of my skin color is.

TheLordHumungus
21st March 09, 11:34 PM
Where exactly is this Utopia you managed to find, yet alluded Sir Thomas More for so long?

Thomas Moore was searching for a society where the government didn't crack down on you for being white? Wow, then I guess I've found the land he was so ardently striving to find.

I'm a little surprised to hear that England was so anti-anglo.


Where do you make this assumption?

No assumption, just a question.

WarPhalange
21st March 09, 11:50 PM
That's kind of my point. The reason whites can't cry racism at this time is because they (we) still hold most of the power. If things were more even, then it would be fair game. Like men still can't cry sexism these days, because we still make on average more money than women with the same jobs. Stuff like that. When some years down the road things get more even, then sexism will likely be seen as "real" for both sides. Because lets face it, it will never actually go away, just even out.

Neildo
21st March 09, 11:52 PM
i love using racist slurs. the other day in reference to a robbery that my friends and i were talking about, i said 'gang of negros'. i referred to an irish person as a 'mick' recently, completely without thinking about it. also, i'm half flip, and i refer to other flips as flips, but flip is actually a century old US army acronym that means fucking little island people. i think it's all pretty funny.

oh and cullion, you're right, a lot of filipinos are of chinese descent. my grandma was chinese/filipino so that means i'm like 1/16th chinese lol. they also have philippinos that are more directly related to the indonesians that floated over on rafts like 1000 years ago and they look like black people. super curly thick hair, big lips, really dark.

TheLordHumungus
22nd March 09, 12:09 AM
That's kind of my point. The reason whites can't cry racism at this time is because they (we) still hold most of the power. If things were more even, then it would be fair game. Like men still can't cry sexism these days, because we still make on average more money than women with the same jobs. Stuff like that. When some years down the road things get more even, then sexism will likely be seen as "real" for both sides. Because lets face it, it will never actually go away, just even out.

Oh. Then we entirely agree.

Zendetta
22nd March 09, 11:36 AM
I just don't see acts of discrimination from random ppl on the street as being oppression. Oppression comes from those in positions of power using it others.

How do False Dichotomy?

There have been black business owners found guilt of workplace discrimination and a large chunk of hate crimes prosecution is targeting SoCal latinos who are ethnically cleansing their neighborhoods of black people.

WarPhalange
22nd March 09, 02:19 PM
How do False Dichotomy?

There have been black business owners found guilt of workplace discrimination and a large chunk of hate crimes prosecution is targeting SoCal latinos who are ethnically cleansing their neighborhoods of black people.

In my post I was saying that a random white person can't cry racism from "The [black] Man" as if it were some sort of conspiracy. You bet that it still happens, but in that case it has to be taken under consideration on a case-by-case basis.

Just like men get sexually harassed by women, too, but men can't say that the work-place is somehow anti-men.

Going back to the original post, Mason could have said that XYZ Black Man was racist against him and maybe even discriminated by him somehow (say charged some sort of extra fee for service and did a shitty job or something), but he can't say black people are oppressing white people.

Shawarma
22nd March 09, 06:20 PM
White people whining about discrimination is similar to an able-bodied person whining that he's being discriminated against by cripples because they get their own parking spaces that he can't park in.

Cullion
22nd March 09, 06:25 PM
Did you just say that black people were retarded ?

Shawarma
22nd March 09, 06:27 PM
Precisely.

Zendetta
22nd March 09, 07:00 PM
LOL, I'm getting "AfroRomance" Banners across the top of this thread.

Spade: The Real Snake
22nd March 09, 07:11 PM
LOL, I'm getting "AfroRomance" Banners across the top of this thread.
This is the one I got:

http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=CMjB1Jvm1__kbRDYBRhPMghRza2eW8j48Q

Spade: The Real Snake
22nd March 09, 07:13 PM
Thomas Moore was searching for a society where the government didn't crack down on you for being white? Wow, then I guess I've found the land he was so ardently striving to find.

I'm a little surprised to hear that England was so anti-anglo.
LOL
Yes, the concept of Utopia is strictly by and for the white man.

Now who is using "racism" as a crutch, whitey?




No assumption, just a question.
Your question is based wholly in assumption.

TheLordHumungus
23rd March 09, 11:40 AM
LOL
Yes, the concept of Utopia is strictly by and for the white man.

Now who is using "racism" as a crutch, whitey?


All I said was that whites aren't oppressed in the part of the world where I live. You're the one who claimed this constituted a utopia. So in answer to your question, you are.

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd March 09, 12:03 PM
All I said was that whites aren't oppressed in the part of the world where I live.

So you have no poor, lower class whites there?



You're the one who claimed this constituted a utopia. So in answer to your question, you are
In some respects it would constitute a Utopia as it appears, for some unknown reason, that racism towards whites is acceptable, unlike racism towards others.

TheLordHumungus
23rd March 09, 12:15 PM
So you have no poor, lower class whites there?

Sure. Whatever other factors they may be facing in their lives, they can rest assured that it won't be their skin color that brings on negative police attention.



In some respects it would constitute a Utopia as it appears, for some unknown reason, that racism towards whites is acceptable, unlike racism towards others.

Because racism towards others is enternched in the power structure, whereas racism against whites is not.

Zendetta
23rd March 09, 12:28 PM
Sure. Whatever other factors they may be facing in their lives, they can rest assured that it won't be their skin color that brings on negative police attention.

Police attention, no. But skin color will affect other issues. Their children's education won't be helped by affirmative action, for example.

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd March 09, 12:29 PM
Sure. Whatever other factors they may be facing in their lives, they can rest assured that it won't be their skin color that brings on negative police attention.
So you don't believe profiling in areas where poor whites live occurs?
No cops looking for drunks driving home from the Eagles lodge or looking for meth heads in area where drug houses are?
Class and crime know no race.




Because racism towards others is enternched in the power structure, whereas racism against whites is not.
Power structure is a broad term which doesn't occur in vacuum and can be applied to different circumstances, regardless of race.

new2bjj
23rd March 09, 02:16 PM
Fuck Jackie Mason, he's just a reactionary old zionist that down deep, thinks he really is a member of the "chosen people" and everyone else are goyum and schvarza's (i.e. beneath him).

And if you think "Schvarza" is not meant to be offensive, forget it. He's the one that called former Mayor Dinkins "A fancy Schvarza with a mustache".

But there are more important things to worry about, like how we can find all those copies of "Caddyshaack @" and burn them.

Cullion
23rd March 09, 02:25 PM
Because racism towards others is enternched in the power structure, whereas racism against whites is not.

http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~el6/presentations/Irish_Americans_S2_WS2003/foto/Image7.gif

What do you know about the Proclamation of 1625?

TheLordHumungus
23rd March 09, 03:24 PM
Not much. It involved using irish prisoners as slaves in the Americas.

You think the Irish in America are still feeling the lasting effects of racism?

WarPhalange
23rd March 09, 03:25 PM
The Irish stopped being discriminated against when America got its public school system up and running and new generations just simply did not know what an "Ireland" even was.

TheLordHumungus
23rd March 09, 03:27 PM
So you don't believe profiling in areas where poor whites live occurs?
No cops looking for drunks driving home from the Eagles lodge or looking for meth heads in area where drug houses are?
Class and crime know no race.

Ppl of all races can be shit on by the powers that be. Some of them are shit on only because of the color of their skin. Whites at least don't have to worry about that.

Spade: The Real Snake
23rd March 09, 03:33 PM
Ppl of all races can be shit on by the powers that be. Some of them are shit on only because of the color of their skin. Whites at least don't have to worry about that.

Using your reference point of "power structure":

a white company executive's vehicle breaks down in a low-income neighborhood riddled with crime.

to whom does the power belong:

him, as he holds the power to hire and fire his underlings

-or-

the denizens of the neighborhood in which he breaks down?

Cullion
23rd March 09, 03:58 PM
You think the Irish in America are still feeling the lasting effects of racism?

No. But then neither are a lot of other ethnic groups.

Which means maybe, just maybe, problems a group faces aren't all down to everybody else's racism.

TheLordHumungus
24th March 09, 11:53 AM
Using your reference point of "power structure":

a white company executive's vehicle breaks down in a low-income neighborhood riddled with crime.

to whom does the power belong:

him, as he holds the power to hire and fire his underlings

-or-

the denizens of the neighborhood in which he breaks down?

In some of the most crime riddled neighborhoods, the residents know that if they are victimized they can't count on the authorities to do anything about it. However, if the victim is a rich, white company executive then its a different story. That would certainly get the attention of the authorities.

TheLordHumungus
24th March 09, 11:57 AM
No. But then neither are a lot of other ethnic groups.

Which means maybe, just maybe, problems a group faces aren't all down to everybody else's racism.

Interesting thought. Are there certain groups you believe are imagining their discrimination that you'd care to mention?

Zendetta
24th March 09, 11:59 AM
yo H, I know a white/jewish guy who was unfairly arrested by two black cops.

How does that figure into your paradigm?

TheLordHumungus
24th March 09, 12:04 PM
yo H, I know a white/jewish guy who was unfairly arrested by two black cops.

How does that figure into your paradigm?

It's anecdotal. When a trend develops of whites being unfairly persecuted by their anti-anglo government, then I'll have to reevaluate the state of racism in this country.

I was tempted however to make a comment about "damned anti-semites".

HappyOldGuy
24th March 09, 12:07 PM
It's anecdotal. When a trend develops of whites being unfairly persecuted by their anti-anglo government, then I'll have to reevaluate the state of racism in this country.

I was tempted however to make a comment about "damned anti-semites".

The correct answer is, "Payback Bitch!"

Jeez, do I have to write all your material?

Zendetta
24th March 09, 12:27 PM
I was tempted however to make a comment about "damned anti-semites".


The correct answer is, "Payback Bitch!"

LOL, for a buncha Pinkos, you guys are alright.

Did I mention that he (my white/jewish friend) was banging a black coworker? Well, she was also banging this other (black) guy.

When her second dude found out, he physically assaulted, verbally threatened, and racially harassed my friend - but when two black cops showed up they took my dude away.

You seem to think all oppression has to come from the government. My point is that it doesn't take a political/economic/white dudez social structure to have a power imbalance.

The "trend" to look out for is angry, marginalized black people displacing their anger at history and society onto innocent people (of any color, really) and the pc-left apologizing for it.

Cullion
24th March 09, 05:35 PM
Interesting thought. Are there certain groups you believe are imagining their discrimination that you'd care to mention?

I think some african americans are delusional about the extent of the existence of, and the effect of white prejudice against them on their chances of economic success whilst being blind to, or making excuses for, disfunctionality in their own community.

TheLordHumungus
25th March 09, 01:41 AM
I think some african americans are delusional about the extent of the existence of, and the effect of white prejudice against them on their chances of economic success whilst being blind to, or making excuses for, disfunctionality in their own community.

Fair enough. We can actually agree on that. I was just concerned that you were of the opinion that racial discrimination was a thing of the past here in the states. You'd be surprised how often I come across that ridiculous concept.

I also frequently come across the insane idea that in America the pendulum has swung the other direction. That now it is whites who are an oppressed group. I can't describe how obnoxious that point of view is.

EuropIan
25th March 09, 01:56 AM
diKUyMNgj_s

Kein Haar
25th March 09, 06:47 AM
Fuck off.

EuropIan
25th March 09, 06:51 AM
Me?

Kein Haar
25th March 09, 06:53 AM
ya

EuropIan
25th March 09, 06:55 AM
Cuz 'black guilt' video?

Kein Haar
25th March 09, 06:56 AM
No.

EuropIan
25th March 09, 07:00 AM
ok.

Spade: The Real Snake
25th March 09, 10:36 AM
In some of the most crime riddled neighborhoods, the residents know that if they are victimized they can't count on the authorities to do anything about it.
Why.



However, if the victim is a rich, white company executive then its a different story. That would certainly get the attention of the authorities.
Unless a popular "community leader" thinks he can get himself a little facetime on the TV.

TheLordHumungus
25th March 09, 12:08 PM
Why.

Institutionalized racism and classism.


Unless a popular "community leader" thinks he can get himself a little facetime on the TV.

I don't know what you mean here. Community leaders get on tv and try to convince law enforcement not to investigate crimes that involve rich, white men being victimized?

Zendetta
25th March 09, 12:59 PM
Institutionalized racism

Example?

Spade: The Real Snake
25th March 09, 01:46 PM
Institutionalized racism and classism. You still haven't solved this Gordian Knot of how racism exists in areas with "minority" LEO policing those of their same race, except to invoke classism, which you rebuke to anyone who is white.

How do you explain white LEO being harsh with white criminals, ala all your tilting at police brutality threads?

You cannot have it both ways, unless you choose to merely slice the knot and not untangle the strands.

A Latino or Black cop can be both racist and classist towards those of their same ethnicity. They can be racists because they are a cop and it is "institutionalized racism" and not "personal racsism", but they cannot be racist or classist towards a white, because the white is a "power broker" and despite all other factors being even, he is and will always be white.

A White cop can be Racist towards another ethnicity, but not classist towards them because despite the "minority" having more money, the white is white and will always be white and therefor a "power broker". They can be neither racist of classist towards a white criminal, because they are both "power brokers".




I don't know what you mean here. Community leaders get on tv and try to convince law enforcement not to investigate crimes that involve rich, white men being victimized? Perhaps I didn't explain properly, all apologies.

Community leaders ensure that those "in power" know about these crimes against those in their community when it will suit them.

However, how do you explain denizens of the neighborhood not standing up for themselves and selling out the crooks? Why do they fear the criminal in the hood more then the racist, classist, bigoted "pig" you so demonize and paint as the bane of society?

Why do these people fear being seen talking to the cops by the criminals?

TheLordHumungus
26th March 09, 01:16 AM
A Latino or Black cop can be both racist and classist towards those of their same ethnicity. They can be racists because they are a cop and it is "institutionalized racism" and not "personal racsism", but they cannot be racist or classist towards a white, because the white is a "power broker" and despite all other factors being even, he is and will always be white.

A White cop can be Racist towards another ethnicity, but not classist towards them because despite the "minority" having more money, the white is white and will always be white and therefor a "power broker". They can be neither racist of classist towards a white criminal, because they are both "power brokers".

Precisely, except that they can still be classist towards a poor person of any ethnicity.




Perhaps I didn't explain properly, all apologies.

Community leaders ensure that those "in power" know about these crimes against those in their community when it will suit them.

However, how do you explain denizens of the neighborhood not standing up for themselves and selling out the crooks? Why do they fear the criminal in the hood more then the racist, classist, bigoted "pig" you so demonize and paint as the bane of society?

Why do these people fear being seen talking to the cops by the criminals?

I do not generally presume to speak for others, but for the sake of argument I'll give it a shot. They don't fear the crook more. The fact that they fear the police more is why they don't cooperate. If an occupying force has taken over the area where you live, what would it take for you to appeal to them for help? How badly would a criminal have to hurt you before you'd ask for help from those you have absolutely no faith in?

TheLordHumungus
26th March 09, 01:39 AM
Example?

Roughly 65.9% of inmate in state prisons are black or hispanic. Only about 26.4% are white.

I mean there are a lot of example. What specifically are you asking for?

EuropIan
26th March 09, 01:44 AM
Roughly 65.9% of inmate in state prisons are black or hispanic. Only about 26.4% are white.

I mean there are a lot of example. What specifically are you asking for?
Carefull, that's classic "correlation does not equal causation" fallacy territory.

Zendetta
26th March 09, 11:35 AM
Can you show me some concrete contemporary example of this "institutionalized racism"?


Roughly 65.9% of inmate in state prisons are black or hispanic. Only about 26.4% are white.

Oh dear God, I was expecting FAIL, but nothing that epic.

Statistically speaking a black person is about seven times more likely to commit a violent crime than a white person.

(and about six times more likely to be be the victim of a violent crime)


I mean there are a lot of example. What specifically are you asking for?

I'm asking for actual, documentable instances of Social Institutions whose policies define different treatment for different people depending on their skin color.

Banks that loan money to whites but deny loans to blacks of similar credit rating would qualify as "Institutional Racism".

But by that definition, so would affirmative action and racial hiring quotas.

Oops.

Maybe this racism thing ain't all it cracked up to be - I'd like to invite you to the Police Brutality Thread that you have been avoiding:

http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52311

Spade: The Real Snake
26th March 09, 12:30 PM
Precisely, except that they can still be classist towards a poor person of any ethnicity.
Who can?



I do not generally presume to speak for others,
Yet you can ascribe racism and classism to an entire occupational force.......



but for the sake of argument I'll give it a shot. They don't fear the crook more. The fact that they fear the police more is why they don't cooperate. If an occupying force has taken over the area where you live, what would it take for you to appeal to them for help? How badly would a criminal have to hurt you before you'd ask for help from those you have absolutely no faith in?

That would all be "anecdotal evidence" then, wouldn't it?

Again, the crux of my statement was this:

The basis of a "power structure" being organic based on individual circumstances and not occuring in a vacuum.

The criminal will hold the power base in an area where they can operate outside the law, free and unfettered, through fear and intimidation of generally law abiding citizens.

Why is this not being recognized, by you, as a power base?

Why is the citizenry, of any color, more afraid to be seen speaking to the cop, the institutionalized classist and racist organization, then they are those who make their home and neighborhood generally unsafe?

The ghetto, the barrio or the trailer park are all "slums" in which crime dwells, why are the denizens of these neighborhoods complacent in the face of those who would harm them against those sworn to protect them?

TheLordHumungus
26th March 09, 12:31 PM
I'm asking for actual, documentable instances of Social Institutions whose policies define different treatment for different people depending on their skin color.

Banks that loan money to whites but deny loans to blacks of similar credit rating would qualify as "Institutional Racism".

http://www.justdemocracyblog.org/?p=627



Maybe this racism thing ain't all it cracked up to be - I'd like to invite you to the Police Brutality Thread that you have been avoiding:

http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52311

Wow, I hadn't seen that thread. While 4 dead and one injured is an impressive body count, I don't have much to say in the matter. As for what the thread turned into, I'm hesitant to get involved in that virtual Klan meeting.

TheLordHumungus
26th March 09, 12:46 PM
Who can?

Wealthier authoritarians.


Yet you can ascribe racism and classism to an entire occupational force.......

Yep. I can't speak for what they believe they're doing. But enforcing racist and classist policies means that you are at best an unwitting dupe, and at worst a fully aware racist/classist.



That would all be "anecdotal evidence" then, wouldn't it?

Nope. As I pointed out, that was all speculation.

Again, the crux of my statement was this:


The basis of a "power structure" being organic based on individual circumstances and not occuring in a vacuum.

The criminal will hold the power base in an area where they can operate outside the law, free and unfettered, through fear and intimidation of generally law abiding citizens.

Why is this not being recognized, by you, as a power base?

Because these criminals are merely taking advantage of the fact that certain poor areas are ignored by law enforcement because the denizens aren't seen as worth protecting by the state. It's not like these criminals staked a claim to a neighborhood and threw the cops out, police weren't responding to calls there to begin with.


Why is the citizenry, of any color, more afraid to be seen speaking to the cop, the institutionalized classist and racist organization, then they are those who make their home and neighborhood generally unsafe?

The ghetto, the barrio or the trailer park are all "slums" in which crime dwells, why are the denizens of these neighborhoods complacent in the face of those who would harm them against those sworn to protect them?

That last part made me laugh. Those who are "sworn to protect" them have shown that they are quite willing to harm them. It's not necessarily fear of criminals that keeps ppl from cooperating with the police. It's fear and distrust of the police that makes ppl hesitant to deal with them.

Zendetta
26th March 09, 01:08 PM
http://www.justdemocracyblog.org/?p=627

THe Jena Six is a mixed bag. It certainly shows racial disparity in sentencing, but the actual individuals involved are terrible poster children for civil rights on account of their violent thuggery.


Wow, I hadn't seen that thread. While 4 dead and one injured is an impressive body count, I don't have much to say in the matter. As for what the thread turned into, I'm hesitant to get involved in that virtual Klan meeting.

Funny, I'd have thought you'd be up for Fighting The Good Fight.

Radical Socialist/Black Nationalists in Oakland are promoting Lovelle Mixon as a hero who resisted racist white law enforcement. That seems pretty consistent with your views on cops and race, unless I'm reading you wrong.

TheLordHumungus
26th March 09, 01:59 PM
Radical Socialist/Black Nationalists in Oakland are promoting Lovelle Mixon as a hero who resisted racist white law enforcement. That seems pretty consistent with your views on cops and race, unless I'm reading you wrong.
I can't bring myself to use the word hero about a rapist. The fact is that Mixon was probably a terrible person. This makes ppl feel better about what happened to him.

Oddly, nobody has looked into the officers who were shot and checked out whether they had abused or killed anyone in their lives. They are called heroes and their death seen as tragic.

Considering what the ppl of Oakland have had to deal with regarding the police, I don't blame them for being hostile. I mean, you have the Oakland Riders and let's not forget this...
nXWSgG-KNng

What saddens me most is that the retribution in the black community in the Oakland area by LEOs will almost certainly be severe.

Zendetta
26th March 09, 02:13 PM
I can't bring myself to use the word hero about a rapist. The fact is that Mixon was probably a terrible person. This makes ppl feel better about what happened to him.

Oh, surely he isn't a rapist; that's just a smear on his reputation by a hostile, racist law enforcement community. Right?


Oddly, nobody has looked into the officers who were shot and checked out whether they had abused or killed anyone in their lives. They are called heroes and their death seen as tragic.

LOL. Actually, they did. It is a prerequisite for getting hired.


Considering what the ppl of Oakland have had to deal with regarding the police, I don't blame them for being hostile. I mean, you have the Oakland Riders and let's not forget this...
nXWSgG-KNng

This is what is referred to as "false conciousness", which is a fancy way to say that people believe in bullshit.

Oakland has a HUGE bodycount. The ammount contributed by OPD is statistical noise, but marginalized ghetto dwellers don't want to admit the obvious - its young black men who do the killing in this town.


What saddens me most is that the retribution in the black community in the Oakland area by LEOs will almost certainly be severe.

The Vigils for the fallen officers were attended by large crowds of every possible ethnic mix.

The more likely result is that the cops will go back to underpolicing bad neighborhoods - which is too bad, really, because since January new police policy was actually putting a dent in Oakland's chronically bad crime rate.

TheLordHumungus
26th March 09, 02:56 PM
Oh, surely he isn't a rapist; that's just a smear on his reputation by a hostile, racist law enforcement community. Right?

Shit like COINTELPRO does make it hard to trust much of what LEOs put out, but I guess I fell for it this time. Thanks for setting me straight.


LOL. Actually, they did. It is a prerequisite for getting hired.

I meant as cops.


This is what is referred to as "false conciousness", which is a fancy way to say that people believe in bullshit.

Oakland has a HUGE bodycount. The ammount contributed by OPD is statistical noise, but marginalized ghetto dwellers don't want to admit the obvious - its young black men who do the killing in this town.

If there were a scoreboard that tallied black men killed by police vs police killed by black men, which do you think would be winning the game? I'm pretty sure it would look like the score of a game in which the Steelers played an old age home.


The Vigils for the fallen officers were attended by large crowds of every possible ethnic mix.

The more likely result is that the cops will go back to underpolicing bad neighborhoods - which is too bad, really, because since January new police policy was actually putting a dent in Oakland's chronically bad crime rate.

I don't want to argue this because I hope you're right. If that's all that comes out of this, I'll be shocked and ecstatic.

Spade: The Real Snake
26th March 09, 02:56 PM
Wealthier authoritarians.
Who can be on any ethnicity?
Or only the "power brokering white man"?




Yep. I can't speak for what they believe they're doing. But enforcing racist and classist policies means that you are at best an unwitting dupe, and at worst a fully aware racist/classist.

So the concept of a "minority" wishing to affect change in their community or within the police department is, and always will be, impossible?



Nope. As I pointed out, that was all speculation.
Which is more worthless speculation or anecdotal evidence or are they equally worthless?






Because these criminals are merely taking advantage of the fact that certain poor areas are ignored by law enforcement because the denizens aren't seen as worth protecting by the state. It's not like these criminals staked a claim to a neighborhood and threw the cops out, police weren't responding to calls there to begin with.
Ignored or are the crimes perpetrated impossible to police as the denizens refuse to assist the law enforcement officers by providing testiomony?
Unless the cop is sitting right there when the crime occurs, they generally rely on corroboration of statements to uphold collected evidence.

Now, if the cop was just sitting in these crime ridden neighborhoods 24 hrs. a day, they may be painted as "racially profiling".......




That last part made me laugh.
Always happy to do this.



Those who are "sworn to protect" them have shown that they are quite willing to harm them.
ALL of them?
Really?
ALL-OF-THEM?



It's not necessarily fear of criminals that keeps ppl from cooperating with the police. It's fear and distrust of the police that makes ppl hesitant to deal with them.
Again, see above with "racially profiling".
It is a two-way street.
Cops either need to be in the high crime areas, 24 hrs a day, to establish a presence and run the risk of cries of "racially profiling"
-or-
They need the cooperation of all the residents of that neighborhood and ensure that when they are called to respond to a report, they will be welcomed with all the assistance and information which should be afforded them to do their job.

Zendetta
26th March 09, 03:14 PM
Shit like COINTELPRO...

... also makes me distrustful.


If there were a scoreboard that tallied black men killed by police vs police killed by black men, which do you think would be winning the game? I'm pretty sure it would look like the score of a game in which the Steelers played an old age home.

Maybe. But that's not the game being played.

The game being played is "Cops=racist/occupation/genocide".

If the game is "Who can kill the most Black People?" then the Thugocracy wins that one hands down. A yearlong OPD bodycount barely competes with a wild weekend of thugs beefin' over crack territory.

You know I'm right about this.


If that's all that comes out of this, I'll be shocked and ecstatic.

That's not all that will come out of this. The Uhuru Movement is championing Mixon as a hero and an example of righteous action in the face of oppression.

The ghetto is oppressed, but not by the Police. If the Black Nationalists have their way, this will result in poor, black Oaklanders being even more marginalized.

With "Revolutionaries" like that, who needs Oppressors?

HappyOldGuy
26th March 09, 03:17 PM
That's not all that will come out of this. The Uhuru Movement is championing Mixon as a hero and an example of righteous action in the face of oppression.


Hey waitta sec. I posted the Uhuru link to troll Kein. You don't actually think they are relevant to anything that happens anywhere outside of one silly used furniture store do you?

Zendetta
26th March 09, 03:35 PM
Sigh. Actually, I do.

Article in the Chronicle today about how they led a march and rally yesterday. "OPD, you can't hide - we charge you with Genocide!" was one of the chants. Catchy, you gotta admit. Someone is printing up T shirts with Mixon's face on them.

One of Mixon's cousins stated "He needs sympathy too. If he's a criminal, everybody is a criminal." while the always quotable Mandingo Hayes stated "He wasn't a rapist, I don't believe that."

(sorry, Mandingo, the DNA evidence suggest he was in fact involved in february's rape of a 12 year old girl)

The fact is that Black Nationalism sells in poor, ignorant, marginalized black communities in the same way that White Nationalism sells in poor, ignorant, marginalized white communities. I'm of the opinion that it does not help those folks make a better life in any lasting way.

What's really sick to me is when I see people who should know better parroting their rhetoric.

HappyOldGuy
26th March 09, 03:40 PM
The fact is that Black Nationalism sells in poor, ignorant, marginalized black communities in the same way that White Nationalism sells in poor, ignorant, marginalized white communities. I'm of the opinion that it does not help those folks make a better life in any lasting way.


I would be pickier about how I phrased that, but I agree uhuru do nothing helpful. I just don't think they actually matter at all. Any more than the RCYB idiots etc. 2% of everybody is batshit insane.

Zendetta
26th March 09, 03:50 PM
I just don't think they actually matter at all.

I wonder if that is wishful thinking on your part. Can you support your opinion on that?

They may be a cause, a symptom, or a little bit of both, but I don't think they are irrelevant. If nothing else, their haywire ideas are indicative of what kinds of myths gain traction in those communities.

HappyOldGuy
26th March 09, 03:54 PM
They may be a cause, a symptom, or a little bit of both, but I don't think they are irrelevant. If nothing else, their haywire ideas are indicative of what kinds of myths gain traction in those communities.
This I agree with. One of the things I heard going around (which may very well be true, but I haven't been able to confirm or rebut it) was that one of the 4 cops was involved with the riders. Which was invoked in a goes around comes around sense. The sense is bullshit even if the allegation actually is true.

Zendetta
26th March 09, 04:14 PM
Great example. Probably false about the Riders connection, unless "involved with" means "employed by ther same department". IIRC, most of the Riders were Pinoy.

One of the detectives involved in the Bailey fiasco was tangled up with the Black Muslim Bakery.

But that's not the kind of racist police corruption Uhuru House cares about.

Kein Haar
26th March 09, 04:42 PM
I'd genuinely love to see the results of a credible survey, and see what percentage of people in blighted areas think of the police.

A poll like:

-They currently serve our community as well as can be expected. Keep up the good work.

-I would like them to continue performing their duties, but with the following areas of improvment....

-We do need police, but they are currently rotten to the core. Please replace all of them.

-We don't need police.

And break it down further by demographics such as male/female, head of household, juvenile dependant, arrest record, etc.

Cuz, of course, there are the people who SAY they speak for the community....but do they really?

TheLordHumungus
30th March 09, 01:16 AM
Who can be on any ethnicity?
Or only the "power brokering white man"?

In the case of classism, any ethnicity.


So the concept of a "minority" wishing to affect change in their community or within the police department is, and always will be, impossible?

In the community, I believe a minority can always affect change. The idea of becoming a cop in order to affect change from the inside is unrealistic at best. In that case if you act according to your conscience and against orders, you get fired or worse.


Which is more worthless speculation or anecdotal evidence or are they equally worthless?

They're equally worthless. I only speculated because I was asked to.


Ignored or are the crimes perpetrated impossible to police as the denizens refuse to assist the law enforcement officers by providing testiomony?
Unless the cop is sitting right there when the crime occurs, they generally rely on corroboration of statements to uphold collected evidence.

Now, if the cop was just sitting in these crime ridden neighborhoods 24 hrs. a day, they may be painted as "racially profiling".......

The abuses and negligence of certain areas caused the unwillingness to cooperate with authorities. You can't abuse a population and then whine when they don't willingly cooperate with you.


Always happy to do this.

And I appreciate it.


ALL of them?
Really?
ALL-OF-THEM?

Yes. With the exception of those who threw away their law enforcement careers refusing to enforce unjust laws, I will say all of them.


Again, see above with "racially profiling".
It is a two-way street.
Cops either need to be in the high crime areas, 24 hrs a day, to establish a presence and run the risk of cries of "racially profiling"
-or-
They need the cooperation of all the residents of that neighborhood and ensure that when they are called to respond to a report, they will be welcomed with all the assistance and information which should be afforded them to do their job.

If that's the goal, they need to "serve and protect" the neighborhoods they're assigned to rather than uphold unjust laws put in place by privileged douche bags in positions of authority.

TheLordHumungus
30th March 09, 01:22 AM
Maybe. But that's not the game being played.

The game being played is "Cops=racist/occupation/genocide".

If the game is "Who can kill the most Black People?" then the Thugocracy wins that one hands down. A yearlong OPD bodycount barely competes with a wild weekend of thugs beefin' over crack territory.

You know I'm right about this.

I do. And if the police are only aiming to be a gang with a bodycount lower than the other street gangs, that's all fine. If their goal is to represent actual justice, that's where we disagree.


That's not all that will come out of this. The Uhuru Movement is championing Mixon as a hero and an example of righteous action in the face of oppression.

The ghetto is oppressed, but not by the Police. If the Black Nationalists have their way, this will result in poor, black Oaklanders being even more marginalized.

With "Revolutionaries" like that, who needs Oppressors?

Or the residents of Oakland will have to deal with both radicals and oppressive police, leaving them in the crossfire. This is what I fear most.

TheLordHumungus
30th March 09, 01:27 AM
I'd genuinely love to see the results of a credible survey, and see what percentage of people in blighted areas think of the police.

A poll like:

-They currently serve our community as well as can be expected. Keep up the good work.

-I would like them to continue performing their duties, but with the following areas of improvment....

-We do need police, but they are currently rotten to the core. Please replace all of them.

-We don't need police.

And break it down further by demographics such as male/female, head of household, juvenile dependant, arrest record, etc.

Cuz, of course, there are the people who SAY they speak for the community....but do they really?

I'd also like to see the results of that poll. Considering what percentage of minority males are currently imprisoned, the results would prove interesting.