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View Full Version : Any truth to this? or is it bullsh!t?



AAAhmed46
7th March 09, 02:42 AM
http://www.jewcy.com/userblog/rightist_jews_make_common_cause_nazis_against_isla m_antifa

gainst Islam, Even Jews and Nazis can be Friends
mobius
by Daniel Sieradski, September 29, 2008
34 comments
TAGS:

* Politics

Following the September 11th attacks on the United States, many members of the Jewish community, increasingly concerned with the threats (real and imagined) posed by radical Islam to the security of the United States and Israel took a sharp turn to the political right. Some switched party affiliations, declaring themselves "9/11 Republicans," and subsequently went on the offensive against their predominantly liberal and progressive coreligionists, whom they have accused (as Caroline Glick did in a Jerusalem Post op-ed last week) of placing concern for liberal issues, such as a woman's right to choose, over preserving the physical safety of their fellow Jews.

Shockingly, as this group, in the advancement of their security concerns and in their growing contempt for the Left, made increasingly strange bedfellows with those historically considered to be hostile towards Jewish interests (such as Evangelical Christians and free market capitalists), some Jews went even further, not only abandoning their commitments to traditional liberal Jewish values, but forming political alliances with outright antisemites.

In 2003, for example, an investigation by an European anti-racist group found that some Jews were collaborating with neo-Nazis in order to promote anti-Arab and anti-Muslim sentiment online. Their interactions included sharing "best practices" for sending anonymous threats to mosques and other Islamic institutions.

Likewise, in 2006 a small but vocal Jewish contingent joined — to the chagrin of many in attendance — the annual conference of the White Nationalist group The American Renaissance, seeking to make common cause against the enemy purportedly shared in Islam. The event quickly devolved into a heated battle between the Jews and antisemites present. Interestingly, the debate resulted ultimately in The American Renaissance's director, Jared Taylor, issuing a statement( http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/04/jews_and_americ.php ) proclaiming that Jews were a welcome part of their community. The latest manifestation of this unsettling phenomenon occurred last weekend in Köln, Germany, where several Jews attended an anti-Islam rally ( http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3656718,00.html )organized by the far-right political party Pro North-Rhine Westphalia (Pro NRW). The rally, ordered shut down by the city government at the eleventh hour, was brought to a halt by militant antifascist (Antifa) activists who tussled with the anti-Muslim protesters in the open streets. ( http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3658793,00.html?maca=en-rss-en-ger-1023-rdf )


Among the rally's Jewish participants, some allege to be the victims of physical attack. One, identifying himself only as "Aviel," submitted the following account to several right-wing Jewish blogs:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/09/a-jew-beaten-in.html

I was wearing my Kippah and readily indetifiable [sic] as a Jew; however, they screamed at me “Nazis Raus”. One of them showed [sic] me backwards and a woman spit on me and called me a fascist pig. At this point I had had enough and put my head down and started to try and break through the barricade. I was pummeled in the head several times and then shoved to the ground were I was beaten and kicked with steel toe boots in plain sight of the police who did nothing. [...] I got up and stumbled away. I didn’t realize that I had a broken rib until later.

Aviel's account quickly led to several denouncements of the Antifa, and his anti-anti-fascist banner was subsequently raised by sympathetic Jewish bloggers, like Pamela Geller of Atlas Shrugs, who labeled the Antifa "Nazis," "useful idiots" and "the Brown Shirts of our time."
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/09/anti-islamisati.html

In their furious rush to denounce radical Islam and the radical Left together, these Jews have conveniently chosen to ignore that the rally was endorsed by the international White Power movement, that Pro NRW is connected to actual Nazis and Holocaust deniers, and that Antifa has an illustrious history of both saving Jews during the Holocaust and keeping Nazism and other forms of fascism at bay throughout Europe for the past 30 years.
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=512753

As reported in Der Spiegel, Pro NRW hails from far-right anti-immigrant quarters and its approach to promoting xenophobia has become a model for extremist right-wing parties throughout Europe, including those outwardly hostile towards Jews, such as the Austrian Freedom Party, which is helmed by former Nazis like Anton Reinthaller and Friedrich Peter. Also of concern is the fact that Pro NRW receives considerable support from Günther Kissel, a German real estate developer and Holocaust denier, who has on occasion played host to historical revisionist David Irving. Even among vocal opponents of the "Islamisization of Europe," like German Jewish author and Holocaust survivor Ralph Giordano, Pro NRW is regarded as the "local variety of Nazism."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,526225,00.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,489257,00.html

Conversely, Antifa, otherwise known as Antifascistisk Aktion, was founded in the 1920s by German communists to resist the rise of fascism in Europe. After the forced dissolution of the group by the Nazis in 1933, the Antifa moved underground, mobilizing resistance against the Nazis and providing, among other things, assistance to Jews fleeing Nazi persecution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifascistisk_Aktion

Having reconstituted themselves since the fall of Soviet Communism, in modern day Europe, the Antifa are the first line of defense against encroaching fascism, and most specifically against neo-Nazi hooligans that are known to prowl city streets and football matches looking for Jewish and non-white victims. As militant anti-fascists, Antifa activists routinely take to the streets to shut down neo-Nazi and anti-immigrant activities, trading fisticuffs when necessary to silence the promulgation of racial incitement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_anti-fascism

Antifa activists have also been at the forefront of preserving historical memory, specifically regarding Germany's role in perpetrating the Holocaust. For example, in 2006, Antifa activists in Köln staged demonstrations and took other actions which forced the Deutsche Bahn railroad service to put an exhibit in the national railway museum commemorating Jewish children who had been deported to concentration camps along the German national rail lines. In the eastern town of Erfurt, Antifa activists took over the condemned factory of Topf & Sons, where the crematoriums for Auschwitz and Buchenwald were manufactured, turning the space into an anti-Nazi activist resource center and impromptu Holocaust museum.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2256591,00.html
http://topf.squat.net/topf_eng/virtueller_rundgang/station_9.html

Yet nonetheless, these activists whom should be regarded as heroes by the Jewish community have now found themselves the object of some Jews' wrath. That is because in the Antifa critique, the far-right's advancement of anti-Islamism is viewed, not as a cause to be championed, but rather as a modern parallel to classical antisemitism and thus as the first step towards reawakening the horrors of Nazism.

Unfortunately for many Jews, the lesson of the Holocaust — "Never Again" — applies only to the survival of the Jewish community: Never again shall we go like sheep to the slaughter. Kill or be killed. Survival by any means necessary. Whatever alliances, whatever moral compromises it takes. Thus we've born witness to decades of Jewish dissembling in defense of Israel's most egregious criminal acts. And now, growing ever more common, we are witnessing the phenomenon of Jews, out of fear of Islam, joining ranks with bona fide Nazis.

On the other hand, for many Europeans, and particularly the Antifa, whether in Germany or the UK, the lesson of the Holocaust — "Never Again" — applies to preventing the rise of fascism and the employment of racial discrimination as a political weapon (no matter whom that discrimination is directed against). In the context of Antifa's historical memory, Pro NRW's anti-Muslim incitements are a precursor to far worse horrors. If the disruption of that fate requires physical intervention, so be it.

Should a Jew cast his lot with Nazis, frankly, marching in support of their cause, and thus find himself the target of anti-fascist resistance, the Antifa should be forgiven for mistaking him for one of "them." A Jew should know better and deserves to have his ass handed to him.

That other Jews should then allow themselves to be used to denounce the Antifa by the same cretins from which the Antifa has sought to protect us for decades bespeaks only our sad state of affairs, and how low Jewish moral consciousness has sank in the advent of our affluence and national aspirations.

The cooptation of "Never Again" as a war cry for those partaking in the demonization of "the other" betrays the memory of all those who perished in the Holocaust. Such a disgraceful inversion of history should not and cannot be tolerated.

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=82

AAAhmed46
7th March 09, 02:43 AM
If this is true, people like Pamela Geller truly are fucked up to side with people who were devoted to wiping her and her entire race and culture from existence.

Steve
7th March 09, 02:49 AM
I know you are excited, but don't use profanity without censoring it in thread titles, ok?

AAAhmed46
7th March 09, 03:11 AM
Sorry guy.

Cullion
7th March 09, 05:07 AM
How are 'free market capitalists' supposed to be hostile to 'Jewish interests' ?

That said, there have been Jewish members of the BNP, and there were men of Jewish ancestry serving at the top of the Nazi military in WWII.

socratic
7th March 09, 03:55 PM
And there's plenty of Jewish antizionists who hang out with the neonazis and radical muslims at Ahmedinejihad's 'Hate Israel' parties.

AAAhmed46
7th March 09, 05:43 PM
And there's plenty of Jewish antizionists who hang out with the neonazis and radical muslims at Ahmedinejihad's 'Hate Israel' parties.

Another thing that confused the fuck out of me.

Seriously, how much can you be loyal to an ideology to team up with people who would otherwise see you dead?

Why the hell are neo-nazi's in Iran. I men what the fuck. How can anyone hate isreal that much?

Or love isreal enough to team up with neo-nazi's. It makes no sense to me.


Iranians were the original Aryans right, so would hitler love them or hate them? From what ive seen of Mein Kamf, he talks lots on german nationalism, so im guessing he'd hate the persians. But who knows.

Cullion
7th March 09, 06:18 PM
I used to think that about Iranians, but somebody on here recently pointed out to me that the Indo-European languages actually have their origin a bit further west, around modern day Turkey or a bit further north in the Caucasus I think.

Nazi theories of what an 'Aryan' was and where they came from do not gel with modern scientific theories of the spread of 'Indo-European' languages and early religious ideas.

They basically defined Aryan as 'fair-complected western european with blood group A' and then twisted what they knew about ancient European and Asian history (mixed with a lot of weird shit about legendary ancient civilisations like Atlantis and Thule) around to fit that.

Aphid Jones
8th March 09, 01:12 AM
Iranians were the original Aryans right
Nope. Pure Aryan Race propaganda, either that or Iran propaganda.

Aphid Jones
8th March 09, 01:14 AM
@ Cullion: Sorta. They also tried to tie the language group with genetics in every way, so that people assume that "whites" and "IELG" are the same thing.


Also, the truth is we don't know much about the early IELG religion, except what we've supposedly deduced from existing languages.

TM
8th March 09, 10:50 AM
How are 'free market capitalists' supposed to be hostile to 'Jewish interests' ?

That said, there have been Jewish members of the BNP, and there were men of Jewish ancestry serving at the top of the Nazi military in WWII.


According to THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH that would include hitler.

Cullion
8th March 09, 11:01 AM
Yeah, I don't think that's confirmed or accepted by mainstream historians, just a rumour about who got his grandmother pregnant.

Cullion
8th March 09, 11:07 AM
@ Cullion: Sorta. They also tried to tie the language group with genetics in every way, so that people assume that "whites" and "IELG" are the same thing.

Yes, that's what I meant. My understanding is that fair-haired Europeans acquired Indo-European languages after some very early intermarriage or conquest by people who spread from central asia, just as people further east acquired Indo-European languages from this same group. Northern Indians, Persians and modern dark-haired mediterranean people are as 'Aryan' as any Scandanavian blonde.




Also, the truth is we don't know much about the early IELG religion, except what we've supposedly deduced from existing languages.

My understanding of what we have, is that we have the linguistic clues you've mentioned and some other similarities of practice between ancient religions we do know about, which were practiced by Indo-European speakers. Use of a substance referred to as 'soma' and primitive ale or beer-like alcoholic drinks I think were common in most Indo-European language-speakers' religions. I think the idea of a seperation between the physical body and some abstract 'soul' or 'consciousness' is common between them too.

Aphid Jones
8th March 09, 04:54 PM
Those religious features (including the booze) are also present in what we know about Catahoyuk, prehistoric Egyptian beliefs, and other such things, so I don't feel that they're as strong a link between later peoples, but are rather a "convergent socio-cultural evolution", so to speak.

As for what we know about religion from the language,

Basically it's like Ancient Latin has Pater, Ancient Persian has Paturan, Vedic Aryan has Pattyuka So we know that early Indo European probably had a Pa root for some divine father/sky-like god. (I've made the last two examples up, I don't feel like going back to the research right now : P)

What, though, does that actually tell us about their religious practice? That ancient speakers of the Indo-European languages deified cosmic forces just like virtually all other neolithic peoples around the world?

And for the record I think this retrolinguistics thing is a valid tool for learning about ancient cultures, just that we should be careful about how much mainstream pseudoscientific rape it recieves.

Cullion
8th March 09, 05:05 PM
Those religious features (including the booze) are also present in what we know about Catahoyuk, prehistoric Egyptian beliefs, and other such things, so I don't feel that they're as strong a link between later peoples, but are rather a "convergent socio-cultural evolution", so to speak.

Oh, I'm not suggesting they were unique to Indo-Europeans, just things that Indo-European cultures tend to have had in common with one another.



As for what we know about religion from the language,

Basically it's like Ancient Latin has Pater, Ancient Persian has Paturan, Vedic Aryan has Pattyuka So we know that early Indo European probably had a Pa root for some divine father/sky-like god. (I've made the last two examples up, I don't feel like going back to the research right now : P)

What, though, does that actually tell us about their religious practice? That ancient speakers of the Indo-European languages deified cosmic forces just like virtually all other neolithic peoples around the world?

And for the record I think this retrolinguistics thing is a valid tool for learning about ancient cultures, just that we should be careful about how much mainstream pseudoscientific rape it recieves.

The more specific examples would be the similarity of God names, common visual symbols and traces of simillar religious practice (Soma, booze, belief in a soul distinct from the physical self).